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LdsMarco
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Re: There are more churches in America than there are homeless people

Post by LdsMarco »

CelestialAngel wrote: January 9th, 2018, 11:06 am Isn't there some way we can communicate with churches of other denominations and all turn our churches into places that can also shelter the homeless for the night or is that asking for trouble?
I think it needs to begin within our churches before we start asking other denominations to do something we're not doing. We have to set the example.
The church has always encouraged us to help those in need. Whether they're homeless/refugees etc. I've read a few stories of members accepting those in need into their homes. Of course, all is done in order. Prayer - receive revelation, etc.

Fiannan
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Re: There are more churches in America than there are homeless people

Post by Fiannan »

CelestialAngel wrote: January 9th, 2018, 11:06 am There are around 350,000 churches in America and around 220,000 homeless people go to sleep every night in the streets. Isn't there some way we can communicate with churches of other denominations and all turn our churches into places that can also shelter the homeless for the night or is that asking for trouble? To me, it seems like something Jesus Christ would be proud of us for doing since he himself never had a place to rest his head and was a refugee. I'd like to hear from all sides of the issue on why this would be a good or bad thing. I'm just thinking we have the buildings and there's more churches than actual homeless people so that's less than 1 person per church in America.
Many Democrat-controlled cities have laws against sheltering homeless people.

Also, since when was Jesus ever a refugee?

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mes5464
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Re: There are more churches in America than there are homeless people

Post by mes5464 »

We shouldn't merely shelter them but instead mentor them to getting back on their feet and become self-reliant.

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David13
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Re: There are more churches in America than there are homeless people

Post by David13 »

I assume you have a home yourself.
How many of these homeless are you housing there in your home? Why does it seem I know the answer to that?

First, the churches are zoned and approved by local authorities as places of worship. They were designed and built as such. It is a violation of the building codes in any place where there are building codes, which is just about all of the US to have people residing in any structure not zoned, designed, built and approved as residential housing.

There are a whole slew of differences betwixt and between a church and a resident. So it's so far beyond nutty, that it's just ignorant.

Second, if you were really concerned about you wouldn't be trying to tell other people to do it, you would be doing it yourself.

Lastly, you need to read something. It has to do with the fact that Jesus Christ was not a socialist.
https://fee.org/resources/rendering-unt ... socialist/

Let's mention Jesus and the adulterer. Jesus said he would not condemn (stone) her. He take not take her home with him. He said, go forth and sin no more. Her reformation, repentance, and renewal of her life was left up to her, not taken upon Jesus as his endeavor.
dc

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David13
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Re: There are more churches in America than there are homeless people

Post by David13 »

CelestialAngel wrote: January 9th, 2018, 4:42 pm
David13 wrote: January 9th, 2018, 2:04 pm I assume you have a home yourself.
How many of these homeless are you housing there in your home? Why does it seem I know the answer to that?

First, the churches are zoned and approved by local authorities as places of worship. They were designed and built as such. It is a violation of the building codes in any place where there are building codes, which is just about all of the US to have people residing in any structure not zoned, designed, built and approved as residential housing.

There are a whole slew of differences betwixt and between a church and a resident. So it's so far beyond nutty, that it's just ignorant.

Second, if you were really concerned about you wouldn't be trying to tell other people to do it, you would be doing it yourself.

Lastly, you need to read something. It has to do with the fact that Jesus Christ was not a socialist.
https://fee.org/resources/rendering-unt ... socialist/

Let's mention Jesus and the adulterer. Jesus said he would not condemn (stone) her. He take not take her home with him. He said, go forth and sin no more. Her reformation, repentance, and renewal of her life was left up to her, not taken upon Jesus as his endeavor.
dc
Actually we opened up up home to 3 Haitian refugees and all have ever served or are going to serve a mission. I feel I have every right to speak on this issue since my family actually opened our home up to refugees from another country. What have you done?
Sounds like you have done what you wanted to do.
That's what I generally do, also.


Now, you mention Haitian refugees. Your original post was about homeless throughout the United States, I thought.
So what do apples have to do with oranges?
dc

Juliet
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Re: There are more churches in America than there are homeless people

Post by Juliet »

If I were on a city council, I would zone a homeless area, with running water and bathrooms and give every one their own plot of land. That way, you don't have vandalism because there will be ownership and therefore pride. Maybe even some cinderblocks for a small box to sleep in with a fireplace.

I think everyone ought to have a right to land.

Take it a step further and bring in a factory designed for childcare on the outside rooms and workers on the inside area, where people can earn some money, no job or resume, you come in and work and you get paid for each product you make. You can even coordinate with others to speed production and split the profit.

Even if it is just a brick factory. You can make bricks for your house and sell your surplus to others for profit. The materials come from the land: limestone, clay, sand and weeds.

I would fund the start up with donations. And forget about the billion dollar bond for a new swimming pool. The free market can deal with that. People are dying out there. The homeless is a priority.

Put a little food pantry there to accept donations of food and seeds and let people live until they can learn to garden and make worm farms and chicken coops. And sorry, no anti-rooster ordinances.

All people need is a little land and you shouldn't spend 30 years of your life paying it off. I wouldn't be surprised if people's drug addictions just fall off. They just need a chance at freedom for once. Then you don't need drugs to cope.

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David13
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Re: There are more churches in America than there are homeless people

Post by David13 »

Juliet wrote: January 9th, 2018, 9:19 pm If I were on a city council, I would zone a homeless area, with running water and bathrooms and give every one their own plot of land. That way, you don't have vandalism because there will be ownership and therefore pride. Maybe even some cinderblocks for a small box to sleep in with a fireplace.

I think everyone ought to have a right to land.

Take it a step further and bring in a factory designed for childcare on the outside rooms and workers on the inside area, where people can earn some money, no job or resume, you come in and work and you get paid for each product you make. You can even coordinate with others to speed production and split the profit.

Even if it is just a brick factory. You can make bricks for your house and sell your surplus to others for profit. The materials come from the land: limestone, clay, sand and weeds.

I would fund the start up with donations. And forget about the billion dollar bond for a new swimming pool. The free market can deal with that. People are dying out there. The homeless is a priority.

Put a little food pantry there to accept donations of food and seeds and let people live until they can learn to garden and make worm farms and chicken coops. And sorry, no anti-rooster ordinances.

All people need is a little land and you shouldn't spend 30 years of your life paying it off. I wouldn't be surprised if people's drug addictions just fall off. They just need a chance at freedom for once. Then you don't need drugs to cope.

Well sister, then you need to look no further than the city of Ontario, California, because that is exactly what they did some years ago. About 10 years ago, I think.

And they ended up shutting it down. It fast became a horrid cesspool of drugs, violence, theft, disease and other ills which was then spread to everyone there, and to nearby communities and business districts far and wide as the foot, or bicycle, or stolen car could carry.

And thus it was raided, strict rules imposed, regular inspections necessitated, and ended up with about 10 or 20 remaining residents who did start to live as you hoped they might. And it may still exist. But only a very small percent of those eligible are able to partake of it, as, oddly enough, all those same issues, problems, etc., that made them homeless in the first place were most manifest, perhaps greatly exacerbated in the nirvana environment you envisioned.
dc

Juliet
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Re: There are more churches in America than there are homeless people

Post by Juliet »

David13 wrote: January 10th, 2018, 10:43 am
Juliet wrote: January 9th, 2018, 9:19 pm If I were on a city council, I would zone a homeless area, with running water and bathrooms and give every one their own plot of land. That way, you don't have vandalism because there will be ownership and therefore pride. Maybe even some cinderblocks for a small box to sleep in with a fireplace.

I think everyone ought to have a right to land.

Take it a step further and bring in a factory designed for childcare on the outside rooms and workers on the inside area, where people can earn some money, no job or resume, you come in and work and you get paid for each product you make. You can even coordinate with others to speed production and split the profit.

Even if it is just a brick factory. You can make bricks for your house and sell your surplus to others for profit. The materials come from the land: limestone, clay, sand and weeds.

I would fund the start up with donations. And forget about the billion dollar bond for a new swimming pool. The free market can deal with that. People are dying out there. The homeless is a priority.

Put a little food pantry there to accept donations of food and seeds and let people live until they can learn to garden and make worm farms and chicken coops. And sorry, no anti-rooster ordinances.

All people need is a little land and you shouldn't spend 30 years of your life paying it off. I wouldn't be surprised if people's drug addictions just fall off. They just need a chance at freedom for once. Then you don't need drugs to cope.

Well sister, then you need to look no further than the city of Ontario, California, because that is exactly what they did some years ago. About 10 years ago, I think.

And they ended up shutting it down. It fast became a horrid cesspool of drugs, violence, theft, disease and other ills which was then spread to everyone there, and to nearby communities and business districts far and wide as the foot, or bicycle, or stolen car could carry.

And thus it was raided, strict rules imposed, regular inspections necessitated, and ended up with about 10 or 20 remaining residents who did start to live as you hoped they might. And it may still exist. But only a very small percent of those eligible are able to partake of it, as, oddly enough, all those same issues, problems, etc., that made them homeless in the first place were most manifest, perhaps greatly exacerbated in the nirvana environment you envisioned.
dc
But it was a tent city. People were not given their own plots of land, complete with the legal ability to defend that property.

It needs to be tried again but with property rights. Again, that changes everything. You may be right, but I think everyone had a right to property. Not someone else's which means if they misuse their property it is their responsibility

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David13
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Location: Utah

Re: There are more churches in America than there are homeless people

Post by David13 »

Juliet wrote: January 10th, 2018, 11:14 am
David13 wrote: January 10th, 2018, 10:43 am
Juliet wrote: January 9th, 2018, 9:19 pm If I were on a city council, I would zone a homeless area, with running water and bathrooms and give every one their own plot of land. That way, you don't have vandalism because there will be ownership and therefore pride. Maybe even some cinderblocks for a small box to sleep in with a fireplace.

I think everyone ought to have a right to land.

Take it a step further and bring in a factory designed for childcare on the outside rooms and workers on the inside area, where people can earn some money, no job or resume, you come in and work and you get paid for each product you make. You can even coordinate with others to speed production and split the profit.

Even if it is just a brick factory. You can make bricks for your house and sell your surplus to others for profit. The materials come from the land: limestone, clay, sand and weeds.

I would fund the start up with donations. And forget about the billion dollar bond for a new swimming pool. The free market can deal with that. People are dying out there. The homeless is a priority.

Put a little food pantry there to accept donations of food and seeds and let people live until they can learn to garden and make worm farms and chicken coops. And sorry, no anti-rooster ordinances.

All people need is a little land and you shouldn't spend 30 years of your life paying it off. I wouldn't be surprised if people's drug addictions just fall off. They just need a chance at freedom for once. Then you don't need drugs to cope.

Well sister, then you need to look no further than the city of Ontario, California, because that is exactly what they did some years ago. About 10 years ago, I think.

And they ended up shutting it down. It fast became a horrid cesspool of drugs, violence, theft, disease and other ills which was then spread to everyone there, and to nearby communities and business districts far and wide as the foot, or bicycle, or stolen car could carry.

And thus it was raided, strict rules imposed, regular inspections necessitated, and ended up with about 10 or 20 remaining residents who did start to live as you hoped they might. And it may still exist. But only a very small percent of those eligible are able to partake of it, as, oddly enough, all those same issues, problems, etc., that made them homeless in the first place were most manifest, perhaps greatly exacerbated in the nirvana environment you envisioned.
dc
But it was a tent city. People were not given their own plots of land, complete with the legal ability to defend that property.

It needs to be tried again but with property rights. Again, that changes everything. You may be right, but I think everyone had a right to property. Not someone else's which means if they misuse their property it is their responsibility

It's a nice thought, and has a good basis to it, but I think in this case it's a distinction without a difference.

I'm sure you know you can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink it.

I had a friend and his first wife, mother of his children was "homeless". Wandering the streets, sleeping on park benches, bus benches, etc.
When my friend and the adult kids found this out, they got her an apartment.

However she would not stay in it. She went back out to living on the streets, sleeping on park benches, bus benches, etc.

Some people have mental problems. She did at least in this regard. She had one of those things where she did not want to be indoors. I don't know what it is, some belief that if they are inside they are trapped or jailed, or something.

Almost everyone in the world has at least a mild form of it, known as cabin fever. I know I do. I cannot stay in the house for a full day. I have to get out, go someplace, even just walk around the house for an inspection.

Today it's a gloomy, near rainy/snowy day but I had to get out an walk 2 miles. I have a fear of getting rigor mortis.

I know there are quite a few of the "homeless" that have that same thing. Maybe a sort of animalism. I'm sure you are aware of many an animal that will not go into your house, or into the barn. They just don't like to be trapped in or "corralled".
dc

Juliet
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Posts: 3701

Re: There are more churches in America than there are homeless people

Post by Juliet »

David13 wrote: January 10th, 2018, 12:57 pm
Juliet wrote: January 10th, 2018, 11:14 am
David13 wrote: January 10th, 2018, 10:43 am
Juliet wrote: January 9th, 2018, 9:19 pm If I were on a city council, I would zone a homeless area, with running water and bathrooms and give every one their own plot of land. That way, you don't have vandalism because there will be ownership and therefore pride. Maybe even some cinderblocks for a small box to sleep in with a fireplace.

I think everyone ought to have a right to land.

Take it a step further and bring in a factory designed for childcare on the outside rooms and workers on the inside area, where people can earn some money, no job or resume, you come in and work and you get paid for each product you make. You can even coordinate with others to speed production and split the profit.

Even if it is just a brick factory. You can make bricks for your house and sell your surplus to others for profit. The materials come from the land: limestone, clay, sand and weeds.

I would fund the start up with donations. And forget about the billion dollar bond for a new swimming pool. The free market can deal with that. People are dying out there. The homeless is a priority.

Put a little food pantry there to accept donations of food and seeds and let people live until they can learn to garden and make worm farms and chicken coops. And sorry, no anti-rooster ordinances.

All people need is a little land and you shouldn't spend 30 years of your life paying it off. I wouldn't be surprised if people's drug addictions just fall off. They just need a chance at freedom for once. Then you don't need drugs to cope.

Well sister, then you need to look no further than the city of Ontario, California, because that is exactly what they did some years ago. About 10 years ago, I think.

And they ended up shutting it down. It fast became a horrid cesspool of drugs, violence, theft, disease and other ills which was then spread to everyone there, and to nearby communities and business districts far and wide as the foot, or bicycle, or stolen car could carry.

And thus it was raided, strict rules imposed, regular inspections necessitated, and ended up with about 10 or 20 remaining residents who did start to live as you hoped they might. And it may still exist. But only a very small percent of those eligible are able to partake of it, as, oddly enough, all those same issues, problems, etc., that made them homeless in the first place were most manifest, perhaps greatly exacerbated in the nirvana environment you envisioned.
dc
But it was a tent city. People were not given their own plots of land, complete with the legal ability to defend that property.

It needs to be tried again but with property rights. Again, that changes everything. You may be right, but I think everyone had a right to property. Not someone else's which means if they misuse their property it is their responsibility

It's a nice thought, and has a good basis to it, but I think in this case it's a distinction without a difference.

I'm sure you know you can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink it.

I had a friend and his first wife, mother of his children was "homeless". Wandering the streets, sleeping on park benches, bus benches, etc.
When my friend and the adult kids found this out, they got her an apartment.

However she would not stay in it. She went back out to living on the streets, sleeping on park benches, bus benches, etc.

Some people have mental problems. She did at least in this regard. She had one of those things where she did not want to be indoors. I don't know what it is, some belief that if they are inside they are trapped or jailed, or something.

Almost everyone in the world has at least a mild form of it, known as cabin fever. I know I do. I cannot stay in the house for a full day. I have to get out, go someplace, even just walk around the house for an inspection.

Today it's a gloomy, near rainy/snowy day but I had to get out an walk 2 miles. I have a fear of getting rigor mortis.

I know there are quite a few of the "homeless" that have that same thing. Maybe a sort of animalism. I'm sure you are aware of many an animal that will not go into your house, or into the barn. They just don't like to be trapped in or "corralled".
dc
I do understand. I think a lot of mental illness is a result of trauma based mind control for which I have my website up for and moving into the future we are going to have a handle on what mental illness is and what to do about it. It is not going to be hopeless the way it is now. Things are going to get better. Www.juliebucker.com

Michelle
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Posts: 1795

Re: There are more churches in America than there are homeless people

Post by Michelle »

We understand from the Plan of Salvation that there are three kingdoms, or degrees of glory and one "kingdom" without glory.

All of God's children, who chose to do so, have or will come to earth to get a body and decide how they would like to live. Some will choose to live a Celestial Glory. Others will choose to live as a member of Terrestrial or Telestial Kingdom. Some will choose Outer Darkness.

All of these kinds of people live on the earth at the same time. They overlap and influence each other. Some are lifted by the testimony and faith of those around them. Some are tempted and fall. Regardless, all have their agency.

While we may influence each other, even God will force no man to heaven.

Those who believe that with enough "stuff" most people will choose better are mistaken. Some will choose better. Some will stay the same. Some will be worse off and become even more idle.

This is why, I believe, the church welfare program is set up the way it is. By counseling with a bishop, all get a shot at help, a start. Those who will benefit will continue to be helped and taught to help themselves. Those who won't be helped, will be weaned off. Those who would be hurt are cut off.

Across the board "free" doesn't work. That is government welfare and it enables the weak and makes dependents. Conscientious assistance with milestones lifts and ennobles. That is the correct plan that actually has a chance at working, but even then, some will choose less, just like in the bigger plan.

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SempiternalHarbinger
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Location: Salt Lake City, Ut

Re: There are more churches in America than there are homeless people

Post by SempiternalHarbinger »

“Of all the preposterous assumptions of humanity over humanity, nothing exceeds most of the criticisms made on the habits of the poor by the well-housed, well- warmed, and well-fed.” ― Herman Melville

“A man thinks that by mouthing hard words he understands hard things. ” ― Herman Melville

#truth

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Jamescm
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Posts: 567

Re: There are more churches in America than there are homeless people

Post by Jamescm »

There are too many factors involved, many which have been established:

- Bureaucracy often disallows the topic's initial proposition. This comes back to property rights; if a government weren't busy telling people what they can or can't do with their homes, businesses, and so on, this would be less of a problem.

- Communication. Without using coercion, how do you unify, standardize, and assure the efforts of all involved churches?

- The people involved. It is not a complete truth, but it is a statistical reality that "poor people" have habits that breed being poor. Too much is said, relative to this fact, about other factors in one's financial position. Unavoidable illness, injury, disaster, emergencies, and straight up bad luck aren't what keep most "poor" people I know personally "poor".

-- In one family, the mother is chronically ill, but generally functional. They still eat out more than they make their own food, don't keep house at all, the adults lack healthy stress management, and little effort seems expended on the children's education.

-- In another, a couple are both drug addicts who live in and trash a house paid for by one participant's parents. One of them is very close to me, and I've personally watched her completely avoidable decline over the years, starting as a perfectly normal and healthy little girl and choosing whatever will gratify and enable her in the moment, taking and abusing every form of pity or entitlement whether social or financial, bending this truth and that until she stands today, consumed by her own distorted perception of reality itself in which the very things people do and say don't match up with what she hears and sees them say and do. No money or shelter I could ever give them will stop them from being "poor".

-- In a third case, the man who has worked every day of his life since the age of twelve is no longer able to work due to severe injury. The woman goes to work and school. They make little money and have a difficult time at home caring for their child and animals. They are, however, better off financially than the previous two examples, despite making significantly less money and having almost no discretionary time. This is because they are righteous, principled people who do everything they can to help themselves out by not doing stupid things both small and great.

The one greatest problem with the idea is how readily a governing body will take money from people to form up an agency, reduce the autonomy and rights of the churches involved to accomplish the goal, and ultimately end up furthering the agency's own growth-including ensuring that there are always plenty of people who need their brand of "help".

Furthermore, I don't have any special recognition for a Herman Melville. All sorts of people have all sorts of quotes. President Ezra Benson and senator Bernie Sanders both have plenty of quotes to share.

watchthewatchers
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Posts: 33

Re: There are more churches in America than there are homeless people

Post by watchthewatchers »

People are fooled with too much rags-to-riches fiction. People think that homeless just got into bad circumstances and are down on their luck. Nope. Homeless straight up just don't want to do any work. From I friend I know, instead of looking at homeless from the distance of a T.V. screen, actually lived with them for a time:
"This area needs to be cleaned up, the sad truth there is the drug dealers that hide among them that supply them with sh*t....All of the people down there have been told over and over what they can and cannot do....to many of those people down there do not want help....now you may ask what the hell do I know....well I walked among them for a couple of years, I was homeless, I was destitute I made bad choices that put me there, I worked hard to get my life back, but what I saw, what I heard, what I witnessed would blow your minds...you do not want to know.... the bleeding hearts have no clue what is really going on, it is much much easier to blame the police....they are always wrong right ?? this is what the media wants you to believe, report before the facts right ??? this is what the media does....well be careful where you tread, a very very small part of the people there truly want help...very small."

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