Deleted

[JohnnyL]

viewtopic.php?t=46427

[Arenera]

Old enough, that in a period of years, it will be changed to a paradisiacal earth.

Look to the close future!

[Fiannan]

Ultimately it is interesting to speculate but you may not get anywhere arguing. My wife believes in a young earth while I absolutely do not. I believe that timelines in the Bible are symbolic or incomplete. For instance Egyptian civilization may have constructed the pyramids around 9,000BC while Sumerian culture flourished 6,000 years ago. Yes, there was a prophet named Noah but he probably lived thousands of years before the Sumerians placed their interpretations upon him.

However, the fact is that God created the world and is our father.

[DesertWonderer2]

http://eom.byu.edu/index.php/Earth

The dogmatic view of many here espousing the youmg ceeation model is not supported by The Church in this Encyclopedia of Mormonism article.

[bradfordjames8]

I cannot believe that people still believe that the Earth is only 6000 years old. How about this let's try a little game.

studies from all over the world have shown that the neanderthal went extinct more than 15,000 years ago. However through work with DNA studies and genome mapping we have found that there is a percentage of the population of Europe that possesses traces Neanderthal DNA. This means that somewhere, back in previous generations, one of their ancestors was in fact a neanderthal. How could this possibly be if the Earth is only 6000 years old?

the fossil record does not lie. We know that there were dinosaurs, we also know that there were other hominid species Beyond homo sapiens. Hugh Nibley and John widstow both acknowledge this as does BH Roberts. We know that they left their Footprints in River beds and their bones deep in the soil.

the Earth went through a formation process
, a crucible, that took millions and millions of years to prepare it for the right conditions. This forming process was not only volcanic and seismic but also presented a variety of life that helped prepare the atmosphere and soil. just like our spiritual and physical preparation for exaltation is a long-term process the same is true of the earth.

[Z2100]

Old enough, that in a period of years, it will be changed to a paradisiacal earth.

Look to the close future!

So are you implying that the earth is 7000+ years old?

[Arenera]

Old enough, that in a period of years, it will be changed to a paradisiacal earth.

Look to the close future!

So are you implying that the earth is 7000+ years old?

I’m more along the line of millions not thousands.

Was it Parley or Orson Pratt that said we are about 2.5 billion years old?

The future is getting closer...

[JohnnyL]

That being dated by the very inaccurate radioactive carbon dating??

No. Uranium-lead dating of zircon, along with interpolating how old the planet needed to be for these mineral deposits to solidify and remain solid, is the method for determining the age of the planet.

I'm sure you can easily find things online claiming U-Pb dating is unreliable, but finding a reliable source will be a real challenge for you.

There are too many things that are outside of the supposed dates of the planet to support the date of the planet.

Like http://mb.ntd.tv/inspiring/life/ancient ... s-old.html

To many forgotten more advanced technology that we today don’t possess. there is evidence of it existing in the past that cannot be explained or reproduced today.

It would be wonderful to watch a time laps of the earths development and history.

I feel that there is way to little info to even grasp a even close to a comprehensible storylines.

The “earth” could have easily been peieced together from many other planets that were brought together.
The 500 million year old hammer could have belonged to a Civilization that was part of a different world altogether that got pieced into this one.

I have seen frist hand pictographs of Mammoths in the owhyee dessert. Pictographs don’t last 10,000 years on exposed rocks. Things just don’t fit scientists timelines.

I just don’t believe the sources of authority in which you sight. I don’t believe the dating systems are accurate. And even if they were. What they are dating could be parts of another planet. another one of God’s created and then reused human trial of the past.
There are just too many holes to many historical evidences and facts that history cannot place.

I read a lot. But more then just read books written by “the arm of the fresh”. I have actually seen with my own eyes things that those supposedly “learned men” can’t explain. Things that contradict their claims.

So...
You believe that God makes planets, those planets eventually become Celestial residences for the worthy mortals who lived there, but those planets become destroyed and parts of them are used to make other planets?

So... you believe that every single planet becomes populated, then becomes a celestial planet?

[JohnnyL]

I cannot believe that people still believe that the Earth is only 6000 years old. How about this let's try a little game.

studies from all over the world have shown that the neanderthal went extinct more than 15,000 years ago. However through work with DNA studies and genome mapping we have found that there is a percentage of the population of Europe that possesses traces Neanderthal DNA. This means that somewhere, back in previous generations, one of their ancestors was in fact a neanderthal. How could this possibly be if the Earth is only 6000 years old?

the fossil record does not lie. We know that there were dinosaurs, we also know that there were other hominid species Beyond homo sapiens. Hugh Nibley and John widstow both acknowledge this as does BH Roberts. We know that they left their Footprints in River beds and their bones deep in the soil.

the Earth went through a formation process
, a crucible, that took millions and millions of years to prepare it for the right conditions. This forming process was not only volcanic and seismic but also presented a variety of life that helped prepare the atmosphere and soil. just like our spiritual and physical preparation for exaltation is a long-term process the same is true of the earth.

And in that dinosaur footprint in the river bed, there is a footprint of a man. Yes, records don't lie.

[Matchmaker]

I believe the theory put forth by the Christian biologist/physicist Brooks Agnew that there are two earths joined together here, one spiritual (terrestrial) that fell from another location closer to God about 6,000 years old and the other one that we are more acquainted with, a telestial physical earth, that is probably millions of years old.

Just like our higher spirit lives within our telestial body and we are alive because of it, the terrestrial earth lives within the body of the telestial earth and keeps it alive.

If our body is cut open, we can not find our spirit, but we Christians know it is there. It is similar with our living earth - a spiritual terrestrial earth is inside our telestial earth but if you cut open the earth you will not be able to see it. It can not be seen with telestial eyes.

He believes, like us, that the earth is ready to go through a rebirth or death of some kind in which the terrestrial spiritual earth will separate or phase apart from the telestial earth. The spiritual or higher earth will return to from where it originated taking higher spiritual beings with it and the lower telestial earth and its inhabitants will remain behind.

He says this separation will be a series of cataclysmic events, just like it was when the Lord brought the two together about 6,000 years ago.

[Matchmaker]

If I go along with Brooks Agnew's theory of the age of the two earths and that the telestial earth is about ready to die and phase apart from the spiritual one, as it is reborn spiritually, so it can house terrestrial beings during the millenium, a call out will probably never be necessary. What will protect you will not be where you are living so much as your state of spirituality. If you are living righteously, you will be lifted up with the spiritual earth to a place of greater safety, no matter where you are on the globe. The ones who remain on the telestial earth will experience the worst of the tribulations.

[DesertWonderer2]

4 Billion years old—just like scientists say.

[ParticleMan]

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/benjaminth ... genesis-1/

See the heading "The 'days' of Genesis 1 are literal 24-hour days, but don’t have anything to do with the age of the earth. Indeed, Genesis 1 (probably) isn’t even about physical/material origins."

[Spaced_Out]

For those of you who are claiming a 6,000 year old earth, riddle me this:

People say THE FALL OF ADAM happened about 6,000 years ago. BUT scriptures say there is a history before the fall. Either you believe the entire creation happened in the same year as the fall of Adam or you have to admit the planet is older.

Let's use a series of hypothetical premises: let us hypothesize that to God one day is exactly 1,000 years on Earth. Let us hypothesize that each creationary period was exactly one day to God. Let us hypothesize that there was absolutely no period of time between the end of one of the six creationary periods and the start of the next one. For my purposes, I will use the creation narrative from Abraham 4.

In years 1to 1,000 the Earth was created
In years 1,001 to 2,000 light was created and divided to create day and night
In years 2,001 to 3,000 the waters were gathered and land mass(es) exposed
In years 3,001 to 4,000 plant life was introduced to the planet
In years 4,001 to 5,000 animal life was introduced to the planet
In years 5,001 to 6,000 Adam and Eve were created and placed in the garden
In years 6,001 to 7,000 Adam and Eve lived in the garden while God rested.

Don't the scriptures teach that the 6,000 year old Earth belief is nonsense, that it was older at than 6,000 years when Adam fell?
At this point let's pretend the fall happened at the end of that period of rest.
In year 7,001 the Earth's telestial existence started. Since that was about 6,000 years ago, wouldn't that place the age of the planet at 13,000 years?

No all those creations were spiritual creations, Adam was the first flesh on the earth then plants and other animals were placed on earth. How long Adam was in the garden of Eden is unknown. +6,000y since the fall, the last 7th period starts at 2033

[JohnnyL]

If it took Jesus 4 billion years to create this world, and he has made numberless creations, would that put him as a spirit for trillions and trillions of years? And someone was watching over the earth for over 4 billion years, to make sure everything obeyed?

How would the world being created in a different sphere, and being of a higher glory, then falling and coming to this solar system, and having a different atmosphere before the Flood, affect its creation and "existence data" we have now? (And if it were made from other earths?)

[Z2100]

For those of you who are claiming a 6,000 year old earth, riddle me this:

People say THE FALL OF ADAM happened about 6,000 years ago. BUT scriptures say there is a history before the fall. Either you believe the entire creation happened in the same year as the fall of Adam or you have to admit the planet is older.

Let's use a series of hypothetical premises: let us hypothesize that to God one day is exactly 1,000 years on Earth. Let us hypothesize that each creationary period was exactly one day to God. Let us hypothesize that there was absolutely no period of time between the end of one of the six creationary periods and the start of the next one. For my purposes, I will use the creation narrative from Abraham 4.

In years 1to 1,000 the Earth was created
In years 1,001 to 2,000 light was created and divided to create day and night
In years 2,001 to 3,000 the waters were gathered and land mass(es) exposed
In years 3,001 to 4,000 plant life was introduced to the planet
In years 4,001 to 5,000 animal life was introduced to the planet
In years 5,001 to 6,000 Adam and Eve were created and placed in the garden
In years 6,001 to 7,000 Adam and Eve lived in the garden while God rested.

Don't the scriptures teach that the 6,000 year old Earth belief is nonsense, that it was older at than 6,000 years when Adam fell?
At this point let's pretend the fall happened at the end of that period of rest.
In year 7,001 the Earth's telestial existence started. Since that was about 6,000 years ago, wouldn't that place the age of the planet at 13,000 years?

No all those creations were spiritual creations, Adam was the first flesh on the earth then plants and other animals were placed on earth. How long Adam was in the garden of Eden is unknown. +6,000y since the fall, the last 7th period starts at 2033

According to popular Mormon contrary, the date of the Second Coming would be at 2033, but I believe you’re off decades.

[sandman45]

How old do you think our planet is? Based on science.

How old is this realm. Good question. Only written record for w have is the Bible that gives us a clue. Modern science I wouldn’t trust because everything they do has the agenda called “Hide God”.

[SmallFarm]

The World had a beginning and thus has an end. The Earth is eternal.

[Spaced_Out]

According to popular Mormon contrary, the date of the Second Coming would be at 2033, but I believe you’re off decades.

The seventh seal starts in 2033 there are many things to occur during the seventh seal prior to the second coming. The start of the tribulations of the six seal prior to 2033 is what should be of interest to us. That is when the missionaries are withdrawn and unprecedented destruction's start.

Rev 12
1 And when he had opened the seventh seal, there was silence in heaven about the space of half an hour.
2 And I saw the seven angels which stood before God; and to them were given seven trumpets.
3 And another angel came and stood at the altar, having a golden censer; and there was given unto him much incense, that he should offer it with the prayers of all saints upon the golden altar which was before the throne.
4 And the smoke of the incense, which came with the prayers of the saints, ascended up before God out of the angel’s hand.
5 And the angel took the censer, and filled it with fire of the altar, and cast it into the earth: and there were voices, and thunderings, and lightnings, and an earthquake.
6 And the seven angels which had the seven trumpets prepared themselves to sound.........................

[Z2100]

According to popular Mormon contrary, the date of the Second Coming would be at 2033, but I believe you’re off decades.

The seventh seal starts in 2033 there are many things to occur during the seventh seal prior to the second coming. The start of the tribulations of the six seal prior to 2033 is what should be of interest to us. That is when the missionaries are withdrawn and unprecedented destruction's start.

Rev 12
1 And when he had opened the seventh seal, there was silence in heaven about the space of half an hour.
2 And I saw the seven angels which stood before God; and to them were given seven trumpets.
3 And another angel came and stood at the altar, having a golden censer; and there was given unto him much incense, that he should offer it with the prayers of all saints upon the golden altar which was before the throne.
4 And the smoke of the incense, which came with the prayers of the saints, ascended up before God out of the angel’s hand.
5 And the angel took the censer, and filled it with fire of the altar, and cast it into the earth: and there were voices, and thunderings, and lightnings, and an earthquake.
6 And the seven angels which had the seven trumpets prepared themselves to sound.........................

When the 7th Seal opens, the missionaries will be already withdrawn and the 144k will already be chosen. The tribulations will begin at the very end of the 6th seal and continue into the 7th (when its even worse).

[Z2100]

According to popular Mormon contrary, the date of the Second Coming would be at 2033, but I believe you’re off decades.

The seventh seal starts in 2033 there are many things to occur during the seventh seal prior to the second coming. The start of the tribulations of the six seal prior to 2033 is what should be of interest to us. That is when the missionaries are withdrawn and unprecedented destruction's start.

Rev 12
1 And when he had opened the seventh seal, there was silence in heaven about the space of half an hour.
2 And I saw the seven angels which stood before God; and to them were given seven trumpets.
3 And another angel came and stood at the altar, having a golden censer; and there was given unto him much incense, that he should offer it with the prayers of all saints upon the golden altar which was before the throne.
4 And the smoke of the incense, which came with the prayers of the saints, ascended up before God out of the angel’s hand.
5 And the angel took the censer, and filled it with fire of the altar, and cast it into the earth: and there were voices, and thunderings, and lightnings, and an earthquake.
6 And the seven angels which had the seven trumpets prepared themselves to sound.........................

When the 7th Seal opens, the missionaries will be already withdrawn and the 144k will already be chosen. The tribulations will begin at the very end of the 6th seal and continue into the 7th (when its even worse).

[Michelle]

I cannot believe that people still believe that the Earth is only 6000 years old. How about this let's try a little game.

studies from all over the world have shown that the neanderthal went extinct more than 15,000 years ago. However through work with DNA studies and genome mapping we have found that there is a percentage of the population of Europe that possesses traces Neanderthal DNA. This means that somewhere, back in previous generations, one of their ancestors was in fact a neanderthal. How could this possibly be if the Earth is only 6000 years old?

the fossil record does not lie. We know that there were dinosaurs, we also know that there were other hominid species Beyond homo sapiens. Hugh Nibley and John widstow both acknowledge this as does BH Roberts. We know that they left their Footprints in River beds and their bones deep in the soil.

the Earth went through a formation process
, a crucible, that took millions and millions of years to prepare it for the right conditions. This forming process was not only volcanic and seismic but also presented a variety of life that helped prepare the atmosphere and soil. just like our spiritual and physical preparation for exaltation is a long-term process the same is true of the earth.

Neanderthal DNA could have had something to do with the corruption before the flood: there was a significant amount of sexual immorality and incest among the wicked. These corrupted genes could have been brought to modern man through Egyptus, the wife of Ham. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Egyptus

Footprints in river beds and bones deep in the soil: The fossils may not lie, but they can be misinterpreted. These footprints and bones could have been preserved during the Great Flood. It also could have happened during the many instances in which the wicked are destroyed by God in a variety of calamities. Remember in the Book of Mormon how cities were destroyed at Christ's death? A couple of examples:

3 Nephi 8:10 And the earth was carried up upon the city of Moronihah, that in the place of the city there became a great mountain.

3 Nephi 8:13 And the highways were broken up, and the level roads were spoiled, and many smooth places became rough.

14 And many great and notable cities were sunk, and many were burned, and many were shaken till the buildings thereof had fallen to the earth, and the inhabitants thereof were slain, and the places were left desolate.

The formation of the earth could have been affected by the Great Flood. There are some scientists and non-scientists who talk about the earth being filled with water instead of a molten core and the effects of a Great Flood on what we see in geology and more.

I don't know that any of these are the answer. But the prophets have spoken in regard to evolution in particular and some scientist have found possibilities that may explain how the the things you bring up have other sources than an old earth.

[bradfordjames8]

I cannot believe that people still believe that the Earth is only 6000 years old. How about this let's try a little game.

studies from all over the world have shown that the neanderthal went extinct more than 15,000 years ago. However through work with DNA studies and genome mapping we have found that there is a percentage of the population of Europe that possesses traces Neanderthal DNA. This means that somewhere, back in previous generations, one of their ancestors was in fact a neanderthal. How could this possibly be if the Earth is only 6000 years old?

the fossil record does not lie. We know that there were dinosaurs, we also know that there were other hominid species Beyond homo sapiens. Hugh Nibley and John widstow both acknowledge this as does BH Roberts. We know that they left their Footprints in River beds and their bones deep in the soil.

the Earth went through a formation process
, a crucible, that took millions and millions of years to prepare it for the right conditions. This forming process was not only volcanic and seismic but also presented a variety of life that helped prepare the atmosphere and soil. just like our spiritual and physical preparation for exaltation is a long-term process the same is true of the earth.

Neanderthal DNA could have had something to do with the corruption before the flood: there was a significant amount of sexual immorality and incest among the wicked. These corrupted genes could have been brought to modern man through Egyptus, the wife of Ham. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Egyptus

Footprints in river beds and bones deep in the soil: The fossils may not lie, but they can be misinterpreted. These footprints and bones could have been preserved during the Great Flood. It also could have happened during the many instances in which the wicked are destroyed by God in a variety of calamities. Remember in the Book of Mormon how cities were destroyed at Christ's death? A couple of examples:

3 Nephi 8:10 And the earth was carried up upon the city of Moronihah, that in the place of the city there became a great mountain.

3 Nephi 8:13 And the highways were broken up, and the level roads were spoiled, and many smooth places became rough.

14 And many great and notable cities were sunk, and many were burned, and many were shaken till the buildings thereof had fallen to the earth, and the inhabitants thereof were slain, and the places were left desolate.

The formation of the earth could have been affected by the Great Flood. There are some scientists and non-scientists who talk about the earth being filled with water instead of a molten core and the effects of a Great Flood on what we see in geology and more.

I don't know that any of these are the answer. But the prophets have spoken in regard to evolution in particular and some scientist have found possibilities that may explain how the the things you bring up have other sources than an old earth.

No, Neanderthal DNA has nothing to do with the biblical flood. Neanderthals are not even Homo sapiens. They are a cousin but they are genetically absolutely and 100% distinct.

IF the flood had something to do with their genetic makeup that would put the date of the flood more than 130,000 years ago.

more importantly your reference to Ham is not even geographically correct. He descendants of ham would have been in the Fertile Crescent and early Middle East. Neanderthals were present primarily in Europe. Neanderthals didn't make it down to the areas near turkey until 40 thousand years ago. So the two are not connected.

In fact neanderthals and every other type of paleo hominid were extinct before our tradition of the flood ever took place. There most certainly was a flood event that left a lasting impactful memory on early civilizations. We do not have a date for this event.

Early cuneiform tablets speak of it and early Assyrian Kings claimed to be able to translate ancient documents from Before the Flood. But that event took place in the preliterate period And long after the Neanderthals were extinct.

take a few minutes and read Hugh Nibleys essay entitled "before adam". It deals with a number of these issues.

[Jamescm]

I believe that the Earth's mortal period has gone on for approximately 6,000 years. I don't know how old the materials used to create the earth are, but I consider the following ideas:

-The earth may have been constructed in a different place than our current solar system.
-The creation of the earth may have involved parts from already destroyed worlds.
-Our means of dating really old rocks is laughably flawed both in execution and the assumptions it rests on; that the processes to which the earth is subject have always been what they are now. The scriptures are clear that history has been cataclysmic, not uniform.
-The neo-Darwinian hypothesis of long-term cross-specie macro evolution is possible. The majority (but not the entirety) of "science" and scripture seem to weigh against it.

[skmo]

How old is the Earth?

It has been around for about 2,500 years.

The word "ertho" is a Proto-Germanic word first recorded around 500 B.C. Prior to that it was a different word.