Accusation of Child Sex Trafficking Ring in Utah

[Juliet]

"Rarely, but occasionally, someone is arrested and brought to justice.
Sadly, those stories are few and far between."

If he believed that, he would give names. This is what it boils down to man. After everything he's been through (if it's true) up to this point, there is no reason not to give names.

"Grown adults came forward, by the thousands, to name names and tell their stories."

So uhhhh.... name some names yo.

I feel like this is a fabricated and elaborate story to steer people away from the gospel. I call his bluff. I do believe there are evil people and bad men with callings (I have had my run ins with a few) but this story wreaks of lies.

No names = Biggest Red Flag

Edit: I will take it a step further. If you were in his shoes and you knew the names of people who did abuse children and are currently abusing children what would you do? Give names. I would risk my life to save those kids and he apparently has already had his life threatened but will not name them? Nope.

I hear you. This was referenced earlier, check out this paper written by Glen Pace when he was a Bishop. It gives his story some validation. Doesn't make it true, but does follow a similar pattern: https://archive.org/stream/MormonSatani ... 0/mode/2up

I've started reading this and so far I have a thought. Just ba3sed on the few pages I've read (probably jumping the gun) but if he is telling the truth then he is likely not naming names because he, himself, participated in the ugly acts. So far I still do not believe him, even though I do believe things like this do happen to a degree.

That is an interesting idea. The past shouldn't stop anybody from working for a better future.

[bbsion]

"Rarely, but occasionally, someone is arrested and brought to justice.
Sadly, those stories are few and far between."

If he believed that, he would give names. This is what it boils down to man. After everything he's been through (if it's true) up to this point, there is no reason not to give names.

"Grown adults came forward, by the thousands, to name names and tell their stories."

So uhhhh.... name some names yo.

I feel like this is a fabricated and elaborate story to steer people away from the gospel. I call his bluff. I do believe there are evil people and bad men with callings (I have had my run ins with a few) but this story wreaks of lies.

No names = Biggest Red Flag

Edit: I will take it a step further. If you were in his shoes and you knew the names of people who did abuse children and are currently abusing children what would you do? Give names. I would risk my life to save those kids and he apparently has already had his life threatened but will not name them? Nope.

I hear you. This was referenced earlier, check out this paper written by Glen Pace when he was a Bishop. It gives his story some validation. Doesn't make it true, but does follow a similar pattern: https://archive.org/stream/MormonSatani ... 0/mode/2up

I've started reading this and so far I have a thought. Just based on the few pages I've read (probably jumping the gun) but if he is telling the truth then he is likely not naming names because he, himself, participated in the ugly acts. So far I still do not believe him, even though I do believe things like this do happen to a degree.

Meaning you don't believe Bishop Pace or Evan M?

Evan. Sorry I should have clarified that.

[Tbone]

Here's another video that Evan had put out. He really doesn't say anything different than what he had already said.

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_ ... =592566918

[EvanMcMullin]

First off,

Thanks for reposting.

Everything I stated in the video and the link is true. As you might understand, this is an extraordinarily
dangerous and stressful situation for me.

About 20 days ago, I fled to Colorado for what I believed would be safe haven.

To some degree, it was and is, but I still had several problems and was harassed by cops 3 times -
again, forced to take a breathalyzer and walk the line. One incident had them wrongly and ridiculously searching my car for drugs (methamphetamines,) and I am now convinced, more than ever, that they either intend to kill me, or have me set up as a low level drug dealer.

As I've mentioned I've now had people enter my house and put (what I believe to be recreational) drugs in my food, on my car, and within the house itself.

I am in an extreme amount of danger.

Whoever is doing this has an enormous amount of money and, I believe, is paying others to help them get their ends met.

...

It is true that some of the men who sexually abused me were and are general authorities.
I am shocked though at the amount of users who simply seem to believe that I ought to start
"naming names."

This belief lacks an awareness of my current situation.

I have people trying to kill me, and set me up to be mentally unstable and/or a drug pusher. I'm monitored constantly and am certain my phone is tapped.

Regardless, I've been multiple times to multiple law enforcement agencies - and I get no help
and no protection.

This is all happening right here in Utah.

Moreover, allegations would bring on another set of problems, as you might imagine, on top of the danger I'm already facing.

Here are the potential issues I see with coming forward with what I know.

1: I am aware that law enforcement will not investigate. In fact, after my multiple interactions with the FBI, the A.G.'s office, as well as local police - they are more likely to investigate me, and, I believe, attempt to brand me as a liar, mentally unstable, or a drug addict, than actually investigate my allegations. This is the state of affairs currently in Utah. I cannot change this.

This is what I'm observing and is what I believe to be an accurate take on my interactions with these law enforcement agencies.

2: Naming names means inviting costly civil lawsuits against me. After all, allegations are merely that - allegations.
Memories are simply memories. I am a single individual who is fighting an enormous machine with virtually unlimited power, and I simply don't believe that either the local police, AG, or the FBI will protect me. In fact, all indications tell me that there are elements within these institutions that are compromised, and even working against me.

3: I would be pilloried in the press and within many Mormon circles.

Some of the people are or were powerful, elite members of the Utah political or religious scene.
Most of you simply wouldn't believe me. This just adds to the stress of trying to survive what is a frightening and dangerous situation for me.

If I had local police on my side, giving me protection, that is one thing.

I don't.

As I've mentioned, I have people rummaging and stealing my trash. Entering my house when I'm not home. Planting drugs on my car... I've now been drugged at least three times - once requiring an ER visit.

I have begged and pleaded for investigation and protection from law enforcement.

Instead, it is now my belief that I am being set up to look like a low-level drug dealer. I'm confident now that the plan is to have me arrested on drug charges, thus rendering my reputation worthless and making any allegations those of a druggie.

4: Facebook monitors posts like mine and would have taken it down had I "named names."

...

I am in an enormously dangerous situation. I have contacted all branches of law enforcement and all major media outlets. I cannot bring attention to what is happening to me, and I fear for my life.

I may very well end up dead.

If i do, there are thumb drives with names - several of them. Most of the men on this list were local leaders, but some of these men rank much higher than that.

Not that there will be an investigation or anything.

I simply want the harassment to stop, which I don't foresee anytime soon.

Pray for me.

Evan

[jdt]

Hi Evan,
Here is the thing from my perspective: before I believe someones claim about other people, the evidence to support should be proportional to the seriousness of the claim being made.
Say if you said that you saw your Bishop drinking a caffeinated Coke, I would just accept it.
Say you said that your Bishop asked you questions inappropriate during an interview, I would probably just accept it.
Say you said that your Bishop was deceiving during a business transaction and defrauded you a significant sum of money. This I would probably want a little more information before simply accepting.
In your claims, I see: secret combinations, murder, child rape, and more, and that many of the per. I don't know what you could claim that would be more serious than this. Right or wrong, I (and I imagine others too) cannot just accept these sorts of claims. These are serious enough to warrant significant verification before acceptance. So the natural thing to do is ask for details that could be corroborated or contradicted. Right now, we essentially have just your (some person on the internet's) word.
You may be right that we don't appreciate your situation and your life may really be in jeopardy if you name names. But understand that other may also be right at the same time in being skeptical about significant claims being made on the internet that at this time are unprovable and unfalsifiable.

[Gage]

So these are rich powerful men with enormous amounts of money that you fear will come after your money if you name names?

[Craig Johnson]

Okay, I am not only a victim of pedophilia I am also a retired prison counselor and worked for 15 years with sex offenders (twenty years in corrections). I can PROVE what I say. This whole post is bogus and the writer of this story is a writer of a story, not a writer of the truth. Even a super-coward would not respond in the way this liar has postulated. It's WORTH dying for to protect little children and others, this long BS story is just that, a story.

[Tbone]

Not that there will be an investigation or anything.

I simply want the harassment to stop, which I don't foresee anytime soon.

Pray for me.

Evan

Evan,

You seem to accept that nothing will be done, especially since you don't appear to have any evidence other than your own memories. But were there no other victims in your neighborhood that you remember and can locate?

And if you just want the harassment to stop, have you put up any hidden cameras? You might not bring down the ringleaders, but you would at least have evidence of the harassment.

[Tbone]

It is true that some of the men who sexually abused me were and are general authorities.
I am shocked though at the amount of users who simply seem to believe that I ought to start
"naming names."

Also, if you haven't named names publicly, have you sent a letter to the first presidency? Or do you believe they are involved as well?

If not, what about a letter to Elder Uchtdorf. Surely he was not involved with this at the time and I know that you met him very, very briefly about 18 or 19 years ago. Maybe he would be sympathetic to you, if you approach it respectfully and sensitively.

[Finrock]

Okay, I am not only a victim of pedophilia I am also a retired prison counselor and worked for 15 years with sex offenders (twenty years in corrections). I can PROVE what I say. This whole post is bogus and the writer of this story is a writer of a story, not a writer of the truth. Even a super-coward would not respond in the way this liar has postulated. It's WORTH dying for to protect little children and others, this long BS story is just that, a story.

I was sexually abused and raped as a child between the ages of 3-7 (roughly). There is no way for me to prove it. I don't have anything but my memories, circumstances, and experiences. It is very common with childhood sexual abuse that there will be none or hardly any real "evidence" or "proof" outside of the memories, accounts, and the experiences of those abused. Sometimes there are witnesses or multiple victims of the same abuser who's testimony combined makes a strong case, but, that isn't always the case. Although I have several siblings, as far as I know, I'm the only one who was sexually abused/raped. My siblings never witnessed it neither did they experience it.

So, you are fortunate to be able to prove what happened to you. That rarely is the case, yet, the abuse and the evil committed on innocent children did in fact occur.

-Finrock

[Craig Johnson]

Okay, I am not only a victim of pedophilia I am also a retired prison counselor and worked for 15 years with sex offenders (twenty years in corrections). I can PROVE what I say. This whole post is bogus and the writer of this story is a writer of a story, not a writer of the truth. Even a super-coward would not respond in the way this liar has postulated. It's WORTH dying for to protect little children and others, this long BS story is just that, a story.

I was sexually abused and raped as a child between the ages of 3-7 (roughly). There is no way for me to prove it. I don't have anything but my memories, circumstances, and experiences. It is very common with childhood sexual abuse that there will be none or hardly any real "evidence" or "proof" outside of the memories, accounts, and the experiences of those abused. Sometimes there are witnesses or multiple victims of the same abuser who's testimony combined makes a strong case, but, that isn't always the case. Although I have several siblings, as far as I know, I'm the only one who was sexually abused/raped. My siblings never witnessed it neither did they experience it.

So, you are fortunate to be able to prove what happened to you. That rarely is the case, yet, the abuse and the evil committed on innocent children did in fact occur.

-Finrock

I don't find your story believable either. I would pick it apart, but I have already made my point and I stand behind what I have said from my personal and professional experiences. You obviously have only a surface level knowledge of what goes on in these cases so I discern that you have some other motive for chiming in.

[Finrock]

Okay, I am not only a victim of pedophilia I am also a retired prison counselor and worked for 15 years with sex offenders (twenty years in corrections). I can PROVE what I say. This whole post is bogus and the writer of this story is a writer of a story, not a writer of the truth. Even a super-coward would not respond in the way this liar has postulated. It's WORTH dying for to protect little children and others, this long BS story is just that, a story.

I was sexually abused and raped as a child between the ages of 3-7 (roughly). There is no way for me to prove it. I don't have anything but my memories, circumstances, and experiences. It is very common with childhood sexual abuse that there will be none or hardly any real "evidence" or "proof" outside of the memories, accounts, and the experiences of those abused. Sometimes there are witnesses or multiple victims of the same abuser who's testimony combined makes a strong case, but, that isn't always the case. Although I have several siblings, as far as I know, I'm the only one who was sexually abused/raped. My siblings never witnessed it neither did they experience it.

So, you are fortunate to be able to prove what happened to you. That rarely is the case, yet, the abuse and the evil committed on innocent children did in fact occur.

-Finrock

I don't find your story believable either. I would pick it apart, but I have already made my point and I stand behind what I have said from my personal and professional experiences. You obviously have only a surface level knowledge of what goes on in these cases so I discern that you have some other motive for chiming in.

Where did you read "my story" so that you could "pick it apart"? You are entitled to your opinions, of course, but recognize that "assertions" don't make facts. Just because you assert that it is obvious that I only have a surface level knowledge of what goes on in these cases doesn't really mean anything. How about you start by "proving" your words here? You're making an appeal to authority here but you do recognize that strangers on the internet claiming that they are "professionals" and therefore we should accept their words, is a weak defense for one's assertions, no?

Also, your "mind reading" skillz are not serving you well. All you have to do is ask me and I'll reveal my motivation. You don't need to guess or make things up. Ready? My motivation for chiming in, as you put it, is to contribute the fact that when it comes to childhood sexual abuse, it is difficult and uncommon to be able to prove these things. It is not common to have evidence, much less "proof". Therefore, you can't automatically discount someone's account of childhood sexual abuse simply because there is no evidence or proof of who the perpetrator was and what they actually did.

-Finrock

[Finrock]

Okay, I am not only a victim of pedophilia I am also a retired prison counselor and worked for 15 years with sex offenders (twenty years in corrections). I can PROVE what I say. This whole post is bogus and the writer of this story is a writer of a story, not a writer of the truth. Even a super-coward would not respond in the way this liar has postulated. It's WORTH dying for to protect little children and others, this long BS story is just that, a story.

I was sexually abused and raped as a child between the ages of 3-7 (roughly). There is no way for me to prove it. I don't have anything but my memories, circumstances, and experiences. It is very common with childhood sexual abuse that there will be none or hardly any real "evidence" or "proof" outside of the memories, accounts, and the experiences of those abused. Sometimes there are witnesses or multiple victims of the same abuser who's testimony combined makes a strong case, but, that isn't always the case. Although I have several siblings, as far as I know, I'm the only one who was sexually abused/raped. My siblings never witnessed it neither did they experience it.

So, you are fortunate to be able to prove what happened to you. That rarely is the case, yet, the abuse and the evil committed on innocent children did in fact occur.

-Finrock

I don't find your story believable either. I would pick it apart, but I have already made my point and I stand behind what I have said from my personal and professional experiences. You obviously have only a surface level knowledge of what goes on in these cases so I discern that you have some other motive for chiming in.

By-the-way, I'm very sorry that you were abused as a child. Although you don't have to prove it to me, because I no reason to doubt you, I am curious and interested in knowing what type of proof you have, if you don't mind sharing? Do you have video, pictures, journal entries, witnesses, DNA, something else...?

-Finrock

[Craig Johnson]

The person who committed the crime has served his time in prison and is currently on active supervision. That is all you need to know.

[Vision]

First off,

Thanks for reposting.

Everything I stated in the video and the link is true. As you might understand, this is an extraordinarily
dangerous and stressful situation for me.

About 20 days ago, I fled to Colorado for what I believed would be safe haven.

To some degree, it was and is, but I still had several problems and was harassed by cops 3 times -
again, forced to take a breathalyzer and walk the line. One incident had them wrongly and ridiculously searching my car for drugs (methamphetamines,) and I am now convinced, more than ever, that they either intend to kill me, or have me set up as a low level drug dealer.

As I've mentioned I've now had people enter my house and put (what I believe to be recreational) drugs in my food, on my car, and within the house itself.

I am in an extreme amount of danger.

Whoever is doing this has an enormous amount of money and, I believe, is paying others to help them get their ends met.

...

It is true that some of the men who sexually abused me were and are general authorities.
I am shocked though at the amount of users who simply seem to believe that I ought to start
"naming names."

This belief lacks an awareness of my current situation.

I have people trying to kill me, and set me up to be mentally unstable and/or a drug pusher. I'm monitored constantly and am certain my phone is tapped.

Regardless, I've been multiple times to multiple law enforcement agencies - and I get no help
and no protection.

This is all happening right here in Utah.

Moreover, allegations would bring on another set of problems, as you might imagine, on top of the danger I'm already facing.

Here are the potential issues I see with coming forward with what I know.

1: I am aware that law enforcement will not investigate. In fact, after my multiple interactions with the FBI, the A.G.'s office, as well as local police - they are more likely to investigate me, and, I believe, attempt to brand me as a liar, mentally unstable, or a drug addict, than actually investigate my allegations. This is the state of affairs currently in Utah. I cannot change this.

This is what I'm observing and is what I believe to be an accurate take on my interactions with these law enforcement agencies.

2: Naming names means inviting costly civil lawsuits against me. After all, allegations are merely that - allegations.
Memories are simply memories. I am a single individual who is fighting an enormous machine with virtually unlimited power, and I simply don't believe that either the local police, AG, or the FBI will protect me. In fact, all indications tell me that there are elements within these institutions that are compromised, and even working against me.

3: I would be pilloried in the press and within many Mormon circles.

Some of the people are or were powerful, elite members of the Utah political or religious scene.
Most of you simply wouldn't believe me. This just adds to the stress of trying to survive what is a frightening and dangerous situation for me.

If I had local police on my side, giving me protection, that is one thing.

I don't.

As I've mentioned, I have people rummaging and stealing my trash. Entering my house when I'm not home. Planting drugs on my car... I've now been drugged at least three times - once requiring an ER visit.

I have begged and pleaded for investigation and protection from law enforcement.

Instead, it is now my belief that I am being set up to look like a low-level drug dealer. I'm confident now that the plan is to have me arrested on drug charges, thus rendering my reputation worthless and making any allegations those of a druggie.

4: Facebook monitors posts like mine and would have taken it down had I "named names."

...

I am in an enormously dangerous situation. I have contacted all branches of law enforcement and all major media outlets. I cannot bring attention to what is happening to me, and I fear for my life.

I may very well end up dead.

If i do, there are thumb drives with names - several of them. Most of the men on this list were local leaders, but some of these men rank much higher than that.

Not that there will be an investigation or anything.

I simply want the harassment to stop, which I don't foresee anytime soon.

Pray for me.

Evan

Why would you tell the world that you fled to colorado for safety? Why would you even post on forum where they can track your IP address?

[Finrock]

The person who committed the crime has served his time in prison and is currently on active supervision. That is all you need to know.

So, it sounds like you have a confession? That, unfortunately, is rare as well. Of course if your perpetrator confesses than this would constitute proof. Also, if you were able to press charges against them and they were proven to be guilty beyond a reasonable doubt in court by a judge or by a jury, then that is proof for you as well. I'd be curious to know, however, what evidences were used during the trial to convict your abuser? I'm happy that you were able to have your day in court and that your abuser was convicted and has paid the consequences for their actions. Again, sadly, in most cases, there is nothing but denial from the person or people who did it. I wish there would be more situations like yours where the abuser is convicted in court because of evidences/proofs or confessions.

So often, though, with childhood sexual abuse, the abuse and the trauma of the abuse isn't confronted or dealt with until much later in life, as adults. By that time much of the evidence is gone. Usually there isn't video or pictures of the abuse or that evidence has been destroyed. In most cases children who are sexually abused are abused by either family or someone that is close to family, so, they were in a trusted position so there isn't much suspicion. The abuser may have died, in short, any number of things could have happened since the childhood abuse and when it is confronted as an adult so that proving such things is very difficult for many, many, survivors or victims.

-Finrock

[EvanMcMullin]

I appreciate the thoughtful discussion in this forum.
The group I reference is absolutely real.
Many people from my former life were or are involved.
They all lead dual lives, and deceive those around them.
Most of them raise their children to be involved in their deception.
Very sick stuff.

I've made a website with a new video and will update there.
At the moment, I am unconcerned with whether or not I'll be believed.
At this point I simply need to be "out there" and public with what's going on with me.

www.evansindanger.com

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DNdJ6OvgvJY&t=1s

[Bridgey]

I've worked in Mental Health for about 15yrs. I've worked closely with many abuse victims. This is my take on it all. You can't judge the story as completely true or not true. I believe something of this nature has definitely happened to him. To what degree is unknown.
However, due to his abusive experiences, he most likely developed mental health issues which has led to degrees of paranoia and perhaps new delusions about it all. This is why law enforcement won't take him seriously. The real parts are to hard to distinguish. It's not his fault. Part of his cycle of abuse.
Added to this Satan often takes advantage of those with mental illness and can give them false memories.

I believe he is telling the truth as he understands it. How much of it is reality is unknown.

[Tbone]

I appreciate the thoughtful discussion in this forum.
The group I reference is absolutely real.
Many people from my former life were or are involved.
They all lead dual lives, and deceive those around them.
Most of them raise their children to be involved in their deception.
Very sick stuff.

I've made a website with a new video and will update there.
At the moment, I am unconcerned with whether or not I'll be believed.
At this point I simply need to be "out there" and public with what's going on with me.

www.evansindanger.com

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DNdJ6OvgvJY&t=1s

Maybe Jake Morphonios with Blackstone Intelligence Network can help you. He's an LDS youtuber that knows a lot about this type of stuff. He seems like a real sharp guy.

[Juliet]

The only way to know the truth is to get close to God. We haven't heard all our lives about the war in heaven and being the strongest people God saved for last for nothing. It is not enough to rely on our human reasoning. We must receive revelation from God and He alone can take us by the hand and help us understand how black things become before Jesus Christ's power will overcome all things and lead to eternal life and physical resurrection for us all.

For anyone who would say another person is mentally ill, they must also keep in mind that one of the principles taught in psychology is that of projection. It is very important to not project one's ignorance on another, or call another person mentally ill when it may be the very person espousing the claim that is of greater lack.

We know from the book of Mormon that there are secret combinations built up to get gain and commit whoredoms. We also know that before Christ comes, the earth will travail and it will be more wicked than any other time on earth. To doubt such claims is to doubt the prophecies of our day written in the book of Mormon, and doubts the secret combinations that occurred starting with King Jared and his family in the book of Ether.

There is no reason to doubt these claims when our own scripture testifies of them. There is no reason to believe that any of us is without sin.

I think, time is better spent asking, "Lord, is it I?" before we go to blaming another person for their wickedness or mental illness. We will be accountable for the words we speak. If we want to be on the Lord's side, we must consult Him before speaking or engaging in idol conversation or words of censure;

In 3 Nephi ch 4, the robbers of Zemnarihah had layed seize on the city of the Nephites. At the end of the chapter, the Nephites are finally able to destroy the robbers, taking the rest of them prisoner. They credit God for their success, and their own humility and repentance before God.

We don't have time in this wicked world to worry about other people's sins when we have sins of our own. We need to be in our prayer closets repenting and humbly asking Jesus for our next mission in Him to accomplish. We can put Jesus' will first every day of our lives. If He walks us down the path of discernment and learning of the darkness out there, that is His job. No one else can do it, no one else should do it. It is not a safe road to travel by yourself. It is not a road for everyone to travel.

When all is done, we will be perfect in our ability to love ourselves, love each other, keep the commandments, which will be given by Jesus Christ not a few; and forgive all men, and to live with charity, the love which endures all things. Until then, we do not have time to judge another. We still walk imperfectly and when these secret combinations are ousted, it will be because of our own humility and repentance before God and for no other reason.

Romans Chapter 3
9 What then? are we better than they? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin;
10As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:
11There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God

[Craig Johnson]

I've worked in Mental Health for about 15yrs. I've worked closely with many abuse victims. This is my take on it all. You can't judge the story as completely true or not true. I believe something of this nature has definitely happened to him. To what degree is unknown.
However, due to his abusive experiences, he most likely developed mental health issues which has led to degrees of paranoia and perhaps new delusions about it all. This is why law enforcement won't take him seriously. The real parts are to hard to distinguish. It's not his fault. Part of his cycle of abuse.
Added to this Satan often takes advantage of those with mental illness and can give them false memories.

I believe he is telling the truth as he understands it. How much of it is reality is unknown.

I have a question for you and this is earnest. In my experience working with sex offenders in prison I was told on numerous occasions that different offenders with heinous crimes did not exhibit any mental illness. For instance, one that still bothers me greatly was an inmate who had penetration sex in the anus and vagina of a two month old female child. This is just one example. I was told the person had no mental health problems. Of course I am certain you can understand why I found this unbelievable and yet I never got a satisfactory answer on how this conclusion could possibly be valid. Is this something you can explain or address? Due to these interactions I have very much come to the conclusion that mental health, psychology, psychiatry and the other professional disciplines related are not real sciences. Maybe you can help me not think of these fields as true brothers of scientology. Again I am earnest and very disaffected.

[Kiwi57]

I'm kind of speechless. It reminds me of the memo by GA Emeritus Glenn Pace. If it's true, I would name names especially if they are GA's.

Hi,

The Pace Memo was based upon acceptance of claims that were supported by "recovered memories." Fortunately, it was since discovered that "recovered memories" are frequently, if not usually, false memories that have been created by suggestions planted in the mind by (usually, but not always) well-meaning individuals who are trying to get to the "truth," but have preconceived ideas of what the "truth" should be.

If Evan believes he has "recovered" some "suppressed" memories of bizarre sexual practices, he should definitely and urgently consult a reputable mental health professional.

[Bridgey]

I agree with what you are saying in part. I think with many mental illnesses there is a psychogical and spiritual element. In saying this I have met many righteous people with a mental illness. Sometimes it is a gift with a positive and negative side to it. Diagnosis of which Mental illness someone has is sometimes guess work at best. Plenty of evidence to support this. The medication treats symptoms only. No healing properties. But mental illness is very real and can be very disabling. Our treatment of it is quite limited though. Most people with mental illness are victims, lonly, friendless, depressed, prone to drug use and many with very low self mastery. They still have and make choices though and most if not all know right from wrong unless it is part of some delusion. Many were successful people and after acquiring the illness sometimes become child like. Don't believe what the media teaches. Majority aren't dangerous or a threat. Still wouldn't trust them with my kids though.

Some personality disorders aren't always considered as a mental illness. For someone to do what u described would suggest to me that they have psychopathic tenancies, probably in part developed by a lack of love and abuse in their own life. They may also be possessed and have very little self mastery. The scriptures refers to people becoming so wicked (by giving into the natural man) that they become beyond feeling, no guilt. Will curse God and die. Sure it sounds familiar. Some people are just evil. Drug Lords may not have a mental illness but are certainly psychopathic. Love torturing people. Will kill their brother. But still require praise, power and to be worshipped.

[Juliet]

I'm kind of speechless. It reminds me of the memo by GA Emeritus Glenn Pace. If it's true, I would name names especially if they are GA's.

Hi,

The Pace Memo was based upon acceptance of claims that were supported by "recovered memories." Fortunately, it was since discovered that "recovered memories" are frequently, if not usually, false memories that have been created by suggestions planted in the mind by (usually, but not always) well-meaning individuals who are trying to get to the "truth," but have preconceived ideas of what the "truth" should be.

If Evan believes he has "recovered" some "suppressed" memories of bizarre sexual practices, he should definitely and urgently consult a reputable mental health professional.

If these memories are false as said in the 80s, it is suspicious that a generation later still has people recovering memories of satanic rituals. If they truly were false, the content of the memories would not resurface in the next generation.

[Kiwi57]

I'm kind of speechless. It reminds me of the memo by GA Emeritus Glenn Pace. If it's true, I would name names especially if they are GA's.

Hi,

The Pace Memo was based upon acceptance of claims that were supported by "recovered memories." Fortunately, it was since discovered that "recovered memories" are frequently, if not usually, false memories that have been created by suggestions planted in the mind by (usually, but not always) well-meaning individuals who are trying to get to the "truth," but have preconceived ideas of what the "truth" should be.

If Evan believes he has "recovered" some "suppressed" memories of bizarre sexual practices, he should definitely and urgently consult a reputable mental health professional.

If these memories are false as said in the 80s, it is suspicious that a generation later still has people recovering memories of satanic rituals. If they truly were false, the content of the memories would not resurface in the next generation.

That assumes that the techniques that were used to "recover" those memories have completely disappeared.

Unfortunately, they haven't. Thankfully they aren't used by reputable mental health practitioners any more, but they have never quite fallen out of vogue among fringe groups.

Martha Nibley Beck used self-hypnosis to "recover" her memories of being sexually abused by her father; wearing, ostensibly, an Egyptian ritual mask. On a bunk bed. While her sister was asleep.

Not just in the same room, but on the other bunk.

Child sexual abuse is a horrible thing, and I am not in any regard trying to downplay it. But it isn't carried out by a huge network of conspirators. Such things are done furtively and in the dark.