Hatch to Retire - Possible Senator Romney?

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Arenera
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Re: Hatch to Retire - Possible Senator Romney?

Post by Arenera »

Crackers wrote: January 10th, 2018, 3:12 pm
Arenera wrote: January 10th, 2018, 3:01 pm
Crackers wrote: January 10th, 2018, 2:51 pm
Arenera wrote: January 10th, 2018, 2:30 pm

Congrats. If it is a true random survey, I would expect 70% yea and 30% nay.
You take a lot of comfort in those numbers. You could actually learn a lot about the importance of constituational principles from a couple of posters on this thread who have much more patience than I do. Principles are more important than popularity. Popularity isn't important at all. In fact, I teach my kids to avoid it. ("...it has many pitfalls and no real benefit." I think that's a Ben Franklin quote, but I am too lazy to check it.) Do you mind If I ask your age? Just curious about Romney supporter demographics.
To you and the posters you are referencing, I shared the numbers or percent of voters of the 2012 election in Utah. Libertarian party, just over 1%. The other parties were under 1%.

People can certainly vote how they wish and I encourage them to do so.

Are you saying 99% of the people in Utah are voting poorly? Is it possible that your belief set has issues of some kind?
So to be clear, you do in fact think it is better to vote for a candidate because lots of other people seem to like him than to vote for a candidate based on principles, policy, platform, or track record? I don't think I am the one with a problem with my belief set.
People can vote for the candidates of their choice, for whatever reasons they use. I don't judge people on who they vote for. The church/leaders also do not judge people on who they vote for.

Crackers
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Posts: 584

Re: Hatch to Retire - Possible Senator Romney?

Post by Crackers »

Arenera wrote: January 10th, 2018, 3:30 pm
Crackers wrote: January 10th, 2018, 3:12 pm
Arenera wrote: January 10th, 2018, 3:01 pm
Crackers wrote: January 10th, 2018, 2:51 pm

You take a lot of comfort in those numbers. You could actually learn a lot about the importance of constituational principles from a couple of posters on this thread who have much more patience than I do. Principles are more important than popularity. Popularity isn't important at all. In fact, I teach my kids to avoid it. ("...it has many pitfalls and no real benefit." I think that's a Ben Franklin quote, but I am too lazy to check it.) Do you mind If I ask your age? Just curious about Romney supporter demographics.
To you and the posters you are referencing, I shared the numbers or percent of voters of the 2012 election in Utah. Libertarian party, just over 1%. The other parties were under 1%.

People can certainly vote how they wish and I encourage them to do so.

Are you saying 99% of the people in Utah are voting poorly? Is it possible that your belief set has issues of some kind?
So to be clear, you do in fact think it is better to vote for a candidate because lots of other people seem to like him than to vote for a candidate based on principles, policy, platform, or track record? I don't think I am the one with a problem with my belief set.
People can vote for the candidates of their choice, for whatever reasons they use. I don't judge people on who they vote for. The church/leaders also do not judge people on who they vote for.
You didn't answer my question. That's okay; it was rhetorical, really. Patience lost.

lundbaek
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Posts: 11123
Location: Mesa, Arizona

Re: Hatch to Retire - Possible Senator Romney?

Post by lundbaek »

Fair enuf, "The church/leaders also do not judge people on who they vote for." But we can bet our boots and saddles that if we support and/or vote for any candidate/incumbent, any program, any law that infringes on the free exercise of conscience, the right and control of property or the protection of life, we will be held accountable.

"....but this much we feel we can definitely say, that unless the people of America forsake the sins and the errors, political and otherwise, of which they are now guilty and return to the practice of the great fundamental principles of Christianity, and of Constitutional government, there will be no exaltation for them spiritually, and politically we shall lose our liberty and free institutions."  (From a letter to a Mr. Fitzgibbon at the United States Treasury, signed on 11 October 1941 by the First Presidency of the Church, Presidents Heber J. Grant, J. Reuben Clark, and David O. McKay).

Silver
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Posts: 5247

Re: Hatch to Retire - Possible Senator Romney?

Post by Silver »

Crackers wrote: January 10th, 2018, 2:51 pmYou take a lot of comfort in those numbers. You could actually learn a lot about the importance of constituational principles from a couple of posters on this thread who have much more patience than I do. Principles are more important than popularity. Popularity isn't important at all. In fact, I teach my kids to avoid it. ("...it has many pitfalls and no real benefit." I think that's a Ben Franklin quote, but I am too lazy to check it.) Do you mind If I ask your age? Just curious about Romney supporter demographics.
Funny you should mention popularity. My signature line contains some wisdom that is hard for many to understand, or even with understanding, accept.

Ezra
captain of 1,000
Posts: 4357
Location: Not telling

Re: Hatch to Retire - Possible Senator Romney?

Post by Ezra »

Silver wrote: January 10th, 2018, 4:03 pm
Crackers wrote: January 10th, 2018, 2:51 pmYou take a lot of comfort in those numbers. You could actually learn a lot about the importance of constituational principles from a couple of posters on this thread who have much more patience than I do. Principles are more important than popularity. Popularity isn't important at all. In fact, I teach my kids to avoid it. ("...it has many pitfalls and no real benefit." I think that's a Ben Franklin quote, but I am too lazy to check it.) Do you mind If I ask your age? Just curious about Romney supporter demographics.
Funny you should mention popularity. My signature line contains some wisdom that is hard for many to understand, or even with understanding, accept.
I have never noticed your signature line. That’s a great quote.
I have mentioned that exact same thing to Arenera.

Even among lds. Who have many called and few chosen. The popular thing to do is more likely not going to gain one salvation in the celestial kingdom.

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Arenera
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Posts: 2712

Re: Hatch to Retire - Possible Senator Romney?

Post by Arenera »

Ezra wrote: January 10th, 2018, 6:17 pm
Silver wrote: January 10th, 2018, 4:03 pm
Crackers wrote: January 10th, 2018, 2:51 pmYou take a lot of comfort in those numbers. You could actually learn a lot about the importance of constituational principles from a couple of posters on this thread who have much more patience than I do. Principles are more important than popularity. Popularity isn't important at all. In fact, I teach my kids to avoid it. ("...it has many pitfalls and no real benefit." I think that's a Ben Franklin quote, but I am too lazy to check it.) Do you mind If I ask your age? Just curious about Romney supporter demographics.
Funny you should mention popularity. My signature line contains some wisdom that is hard for many to understand, or even with understanding, accept.
I have never noticed your signature line. That’s a great quote.
I have mentioned that exact same thing to Arenera.

Even among lds. Who have many called and few chosen. The popular thing to do is more likely not going to gain one salvation in the celestial kingdom.
You guys are the judges??? Not!

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Arenera
captain of 1,000
Posts: 2712

Re: Hatch to Retire - Possible Senator Romney?

Post by Arenera »

lundbaek wrote: January 10th, 2018, 3:53 pm Fair enuf, "The church/leaders also do not judge people on who they vote for." But we can bet our boots and saddles that if we support and/or vote for any candidate/incumbent, any program, any law that infringes on the free exercise of conscience, the right and control of property or the protection of life, we will be held accountable.

"....but this much we feel we can definitely say, that unless the people of America forsake the sins and the errors, political and otherwise, of which they are now guilty and return to the practice of the great fundamental principles of Christianity, and of Constitutional government, there will be no exaltation for them spiritually, and politically we shall lose our liberty and free institutions."  (From a letter to a Mr. Fitzgibbon at the United States Treasury, signed on 11 October 1941 by the First Presidency of the Church, Presidents Heber J. Grant, J. Reuben Clark, and David O. McKay).
Let’s check current day FP message:
The following letter was issued by the First Presidency of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints on October 5, 2016, to be read to Church congregations throughout the United States:

Dear Brothers and Sisters:

Political Participation, Voting, and the Political Neutrality of the Church

As citizens we have the privilege and duty of electing office holders and influencing public policy. Participation in the political process affects our communities and nation today and in the future. We urge Latter-day Saints to be active citizens by registering, exercising their right to vote, and engaging in civic affairs.

We also urge you to spend the time needed to become informed about the issues and candidates you will be considering. Along with the options available to you through the Internet, debates, and other sources, the Church occasionally posts information about particular moral issues on which it has taken a position at www.MormonNewsroom.org.

Principles compatible with the gospel may be found in various political parties, and members should seek candidates who best embody those principles.

While the Church affirms its institutional neutrality regarding political parties and candidates, individual members should participate in the political process. The Church also affirms its constitutional right of expression on political and social issues.

Sincerely yours,
Thomas S. Monson
Henry B. Eyring
Dieter F. Uchtdorf
The First Presidency

Silver
Level 34 Illuminated
Posts: 5247

Re: Hatch to Retire - Possible Senator Romney?

Post by Silver »

Ezra wrote: January 10th, 2018, 6:17 pm
Silver wrote: January 10th, 2018, 4:03 pm
Crackers wrote: January 10th, 2018, 2:51 pmYou take a lot of comfort in those numbers. You could actually learn a lot about the importance of constituational principles from a couple of posters on this thread who have much more patience than I do. Principles are more important than popularity. Popularity isn't important at all. In fact, I teach my kids to avoid it. ("...it has many pitfalls and no real benefit." I think that's a Ben Franklin quote, but I am too lazy to check it.) Do you mind If I ask your age? Just curious about Romney supporter demographics.
Funny you should mention popularity. My signature line contains some wisdom that is hard for many to understand, or even with understanding, accept.
I have never noticed your signature line. That’s a great quote.
I have mentioned that exact same thing to Arenera.

Even among lds. Who have many called and few chosen. The popular thing to do is more likely not going to gain one salvation in the celestial kingdom.
I put the troll Arenera on ignore eons ago. I can feel my IQ oozing out of me every time I read (past tense) her nonsensical posts.

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Arenera
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Posts: 2712

Re: Hatch to Retire - Possible Senator Romney?

Post by Arenera »

Silver wrote: January 10th, 2018, 7:42 pm
Ezra wrote: January 10th, 2018, 6:17 pm
Silver wrote: January 10th, 2018, 4:03 pm
Crackers wrote: January 10th, 2018, 2:51 pmYou take a lot of comfort in those numbers. You could actually learn a lot about the importance of constituational principles from a couple of posters on this thread who have much more patience than I do. Principles are more important than popularity. Popularity isn't important at all. In fact, I teach my kids to avoid it. ("...it has many pitfalls and no real benefit." I think that's a Ben Franklin quote, but I am too lazy to check it.) Do you mind If I ask your age? Just curious about Romney supporter demographics.
Funny you should mention popularity. My signature line contains some wisdom that is hard for many to understand, or even with understanding, accept.
I have never noticed your signature line. That’s a great quote.
I have mentioned that exact same thing to Arenera.

Even among lds. Who have many called and few chosen. The popular thing to do is more likely not going to gain one salvation in the celestial kingdom.
I put the troll Arenera on ignore eons ago. I can feel my IQ oozing out of me every time I read (past tense) her nonsensical posts.
It’s interesting the name calling you use when someone presents a strong and valid argument that varies from your belief set.

lundbaek
Level 34 Illuminated
Posts: 11123
Location: Mesa, Arizona

Re: Hatch to Retire - Possible Senator Romney?

Post by lundbaek »

"We also urge you to spend the time needed to become informed about the issues and candidates you will be considering." I think this is where many people are dropping the ball. I would hope that if you learned the principles of the Constitution in the tradition of the Founding Fathers you would be better able to make good judgement on the issues and the candidates.

I find that it is good to read what typical Mormon voters think about the proper role of government. I can see why that Arizona State Legislator suggested some years ago to the area seventy that the Church stop telling members to vote because they vote in ignorance and make things worse.

Ezra
captain of 1,000
Posts: 4357
Location: Not telling

Re: Hatch to Retire - Possible Senator Romney?

Post by Ezra »

Arenera wrote: January 10th, 2018, 7:06 pm
Ezra wrote: January 10th, 2018, 6:17 pm
Silver wrote: January 10th, 2018, 4:03 pm
Crackers wrote: January 10th, 2018, 2:51 pmYou take a lot of comfort in those numbers. You could actually learn a lot about the importance of constituational principles from a couple of posters on this thread who have much more patience than I do. Principles are more important than popularity. Popularity isn't important at all. In fact, I teach my kids to avoid it. ("...it has many pitfalls and no real benefit." I think that's a Ben Franklin quote, but I am too lazy to check it.) Do you mind If I ask your age? Just curious about Romney supporter demographics.
Funny you should mention popularity. My signature line contains some wisdom that is hard for many to understand, or even with understanding, accept.
I have never noticed your signature line. That’s a great quote.
I have mentioned that exact same thing to Arenera.

Even among lds. Who have many called and few chosen. The popular thing to do is more likely not going to gain one salvation in the celestial kingdom.
You guys are the judges??? Not!
No we have the ablility to add and subtract and read.

Many being called few being chosen is really easy to understand for most people.

If you look at your fingers you should have 10 including your thumbs. Many fingers would be the majority. Few would be 1-3.

If many are not chosen....... the scriptures explains in vs 38 of d&c 121 that those not chosen fight against god. So if many are not chosen let’s say 70%=7 fingers. they are fighting against god and should not be followed.

We are not the judge. God is. And he is the one saying many lds are fighting against him.

If you are fighting against someone would you consider them to be your enemies?

So shouldn’t you ensure you are on gods side when voting by understanding the principles of the constitution And being constitutional? Since god himself created the constitution. And more then one prophet has referred to the constitution as scripture and asked us to understand and adhere to it so that we could find salvation in the hereafter? Since we have had gods mouthpiece warm that to be righteously involved in the battle of agency that still rages on from the war in heaven will make the difference in if we find salvation in the celestial kingdom or not?????

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Arenera
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Posts: 2712

Re: Hatch to Retire - Possible Senator Romney?

Post by Arenera »

Ezra wrote: January 10th, 2018, 8:54 pm
Arenera wrote: January 10th, 2018, 7:06 pm
Ezra wrote: January 10th, 2018, 6:17 pm
Silver wrote: January 10th, 2018, 4:03 pm

Funny you should mention popularity. My signature line contains some wisdom that is hard for many to understand, or even with understanding, accept.
I have never noticed your signature line. That’s a great quote.
I have mentioned that exact same thing to Arenera.

Even among lds. Who have many called and few chosen. The popular thing to do is more likely not going to gain one salvation in the celestial kingdom.
You guys are the judges??? Not!
No we have the ablility to add and subtract and read.

Many being called few being chosen is really easy to understand for most people.

If you look at your fingers you should have 10 including your thumbs. Many fingers would be the majority. Few would be 1-3.

If many are not chosen....... the scriptures explains in vs 38 of d&c 121 that those not chosen fight against god. So if many are not chosen let’s say 70%=7 fingers. they are fighting against god and should not be followed.

We are not the judge. God is. And he is the one saying many lds are fighting against him.

If you are fighting against someone would you consider them to be your enemies?

So shouldn’t you ensure you are on gods side when voting by understanding the principles of the constitution And being constitutional? Since god himself created the constitution. And more then one prophet has referred to the constitution as scripture and asked us to understand and adhere to it so that we could find salvation in the hereafter? Since we have had gods mouthpiece warm that to be righteously involved in the battle of agency that still rages on from the war in heaven will make the difference in if we find salvation in the celestial kingdom or not?????
Does that make you a fewbee...

Ezra
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Posts: 4357
Location: Not telling

Re: Hatch to Retire - Possible Senator Romney?

Post by Ezra »

Arenera wrote: January 10th, 2018, 7:46 pm
Silver wrote: January 10th, 2018, 7:42 pm
Ezra wrote: January 10th, 2018, 6:17 pm
Silver wrote: January 10th, 2018, 4:03 pm

Funny you should mention popularity. My signature line contains some wisdom that is hard for many to understand, or even with understanding, accept.
I have never noticed your signature line. That’s a great quote.
I have mentioned that exact same thing to Arenera.

Even among lds. Who have many called and few chosen. The popular thing to do is more likely not going to gain one salvation in the celestial kingdom.
I put the troll Arenera on ignore eons ago. I can feel my IQ oozing out of me every time I read (past tense) her nonsensical posts.
It’s interesting the name calling you use when someone presents a strong and valid argument that varies from your belief set.
Strong and valid arguments are ones that are backed by scriptures. So I invite you to please make a strong a valid argument.

Ezra
captain of 1,000
Posts: 4357
Location: Not telling

Re: Hatch to Retire - Possible Senator Romney?

Post by Ezra »

Arenera wrote: January 10th, 2018, 8:58 pm
Ezra wrote: January 10th, 2018, 8:54 pm
Arenera wrote: January 10th, 2018, 7:06 pm
Ezra wrote: January 10th, 2018, 6:17 pm

I have never noticed your signature line. That’s a great quote.
I have mentioned that exact same thing to Arenera.

Even among lds. Who have many called and few chosen. The popular thing to do is more likely not going to gain one salvation in the celestial kingdom.
You guys are the judges??? Not!
No we have the ablility to add and subtract and read.

Many being called few being chosen is really easy to understand for most people.

If you look at your fingers you should have 10 including your thumbs. Many fingers would be the majority. Few would be 1-3.

If many are not chosen....... the scriptures explains in vs 38 of d&c 121 that those not chosen fight against god. So if many are not chosen let’s say 70%=7 fingers. they are fighting against god and should not be followed.

We are not the judge. God is. And he is the one saying many lds are fighting against him.

If you are fighting against someone would you consider them to be your enemies?

So shouldn’t you ensure you are on gods side when voting by understanding the principles of the constitution And being constitutional? Since god himself created the constitution. And more then one prophet has referred to the constitution as scripture and asked us to understand and adhere to it so that we could find salvation in the hereafter? Since we have had gods mouthpiece warm that to be righteously involved in the battle of agency that still rages on from the war in heaven will make the difference in if we find salvation in the celestial kingdom or not?????
Does that make you a fewbee...
That’s for god to judge. the scriptures support your idea that I would be numbered with the few. You have pointed it out many times that 1% of voters vote constitutionally.

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Arenera
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Posts: 2712

Re: Hatch to Retire - Possible Senator Romney?

Post by Arenera »

Ezra wrote: January 10th, 2018, 8:58 pm
Arenera wrote: January 10th, 2018, 7:46 pm
Silver wrote: January 10th, 2018, 7:42 pm
Ezra wrote: January 10th, 2018, 6:17 pm

I have never noticed your signature line. That’s a great quote.
I have mentioned that exact same thing to Arenera.

Even among lds. Who have many called and few chosen. The popular thing to do is more likely not going to gain one salvation in the celestial kingdom.
I put the troll Arenera on ignore eons ago. I can feel my IQ oozing out of me every time I read (past tense) her nonsensical posts.
It’s interesting the name calling you use when someone presents a strong and valid argument that varies from your belief set.
Strong and valid arguments are ones that are backed by scriptures. So I invite you to please make a strong a valid argument.
Let’s check current day FP message:
The following letter was issued by the First Presidency of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints on October 5, 2016, to be read to Church congregations throughout the United States:

Dear Brothers and Sisters:

Political Participation, Voting, and the Political Neutrality of the Church

As citizens we have the privilege and duty of electing office holders and influencing public policy. Participation in the political process affects our communities and nation today and in the future. We urge Latter-day Saints to be active citizens by registering, exercising their right to vote, and engaging in civic affairs.

We also urge you to spend the time needed to become informed about the issues and candidates you will be considering. Along with the options available to you through the Internet, debates, and other sources, the Church occasionally posts information about particular moral issues on which it has taken a position at www.MormonNewsroom.org.

Principles compatible with the gospel may be found in various political parties, and members should seek candidates who best embody those principles.

While the Church affirms its institutional neutrality regarding political parties and candidates, individual members should participate in the political process. The Church also affirms its constitutional right of expression on political and social issues.

Sincerely yours,
Thomas S. Monson
Henry B. Eyring
Dieter F. Uchtdorf
The First Presidency
Romney fits it very well, also the Utah mormons.

User avatar
Arenera
captain of 1,000
Posts: 2712

Re: Hatch to Retire - Possible Senator Romney?

Post by Arenera »

lundbaek wrote: January 10th, 2018, 7:57 pm "We also urge you to spend the time needed to become informed about the issues and candidates you will be considering." I think this is where many people are dropping the ball. I would hope that if you learned the principles of the Constitution in the tradition of the Founding Fathers you would be better able to make good judgement on the issues and the candidates.

I find that it is good to read what typical Mormon voters think about the proper role of government. I can see why that Arizona State Legislator suggested some years ago to the area seventy that the Church stop telling members to vote because they vote in ignorance and make things worse.
Sorry you feel that way about your fellow Arizonians.

It will be interesting in 11 months to see how Arizona votes. Will the republicans keep Flake’s senate seat?

Will the Democrats get the House or Senate.

Fiannan
Level 34 Illuminated
Posts: 12983

Re: Hatch to Retire - Possible Senator Romney?

Post by Fiannan »

Arenera wrote: January 10th, 2018, 1:15 pm
Fiannan wrote: January 10th, 2018, 1:03 pm
McMullin got 21.54% in 2016. Clinton 27.5%, Trump 45.5%.
Not asking for a breakdown of the 2016 vote in Utah. I am asking you if you think Evan McMullin is a good choice for congress.
Like I said, that is for Utahns to decide.
Yet you are the cheerleader for Romney in regards to the Utah position. Why not give us your opinion of Evan McMullin?

User avatar
Arenera
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Posts: 2712

Re: Hatch to Retire - Possible Senator Romney?

Post by Arenera »

Fiannan wrote: January 10th, 2018, 9:22 pm
Arenera wrote: January 10th, 2018, 1:15 pm
Fiannan wrote: January 10th, 2018, 1:03 pm
McMullin got 21.54% in 2016. Clinton 27.5%, Trump 45.5%.
Not asking for a breakdown of the 2016 vote in Utah. I am asking you if you think Evan McMullin is a good choice for congress.
Like I said, that is for Utahns to decide.
Yet you are the cheerleader for Romney in regards to the Utah position. Why not give us your opinion of Evan McMullin?
Like I said, I’m not in Utah and don’t have an opinion.

larsenb
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Posts: 10812
Location: Between here and Standing Rock

Re: Hatch to Retire - Possible Senator Romney?

Post by larsenb »

Arenera wrote: January 10th, 2018, 9:32 am
Fiannan wrote: January 10th, 2018, 8:51 am
Arenera wrote: January 10th, 2018, 8:11 am
Fiannan wrote: January 10th, 2018, 7:51 am By the way Arenera, you appear to want Romney as a senator; would you also be pleased if Evan McMullin were to run and win a seat as a congressman?
I don't live in Utah, so I don't have a vote for either. While Romney would be a junior senator, he has enough "clout" that he could make a presence. From one republican to another, what difference would McMullin make?
I asked if you would support McMullin as a congressman in general.
I haven't researched him enough to make a decision. He did make the vote interesting in Utah but that was because people don't like Trump's moral / Twitter dynamics.
Twitter dynamics? What part of any Republican platform is that? I don't follow Trump's tweets much, but love that he has this method to end-run the MSM.

larsenb
Level 34 Illuminated
Posts: 10812
Location: Between here and Standing Rock

Re: Hatch to Retire - Possible Senator Romney?

Post by larsenb »

lundbaek wrote: January 10th, 2018, 7:57 pm . . . . . I find that it is good to read what typical Mormon voters think about the proper role of government. I can see why that Arizona State Legislator suggested some years ago to the area seventy that the Church stop telling members to vote because they vote in ignorance and make things worse.
Really? That was my exact thought about the Church urging members to vote. It was just after this push came out that our precinct became flooded with what seemed like enormous numbers of 'know-nothings'. We started losing real conservative delegates after this. I stopped going because it seemed a waste of time.
Last edited by larsenb on January 10th, 2018, 10:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Ezra
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Posts: 4357
Location: Not telling

Re: Hatch to Retire - Possible Senator Romney?

Post by Ezra »

Arenera wrote: January 10th, 2018, 9:08 pm
Ezra wrote: January 10th, 2018, 8:58 pm
Arenera wrote: January 10th, 2018, 7:46 pm
Silver wrote: January 10th, 2018, 7:42 pm

I put the troll Arenera on ignore eons ago. I can feel my IQ oozing out of me every time I read (past tense) her nonsensical posts.
It’s interesting the name calling you use when someone presents a strong and valid argument that varies from your belief set.
Strong and valid arguments are ones that are backed by scriptures. So I invite you to please make a strong a valid argument.
Let’s check current day FP message:
The following letter was issued by the First Presidency of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints on October 5, 2016, to be read to Church congregations throughout the United States:

Dear Brothers and Sisters:

Political Participation, Voting, and the Political Neutrality of the Church

As citizens we have the privilege and duty of electing office holders and influencing public policy. Participation in the political process affects our communities and nation today and in the future. We urge Latter-day Saints to be active citizens by registering, exercising their right to vote, and engaging in civic affairs.

We also urge you to spend the time needed to become informed about the issues and candidates you will be considering. Along with the options available to you through the Internet, debates, and other sources, the Church occasionally posts information about particular moral issues on which it has taken a position at www.MormonNewsroom.org.

Principles compatible with the gospel may be found in various political parties, and members should seek candidates who best embody those principles.

While the Church affirms its institutional neutrality regarding political parties and candidates, individual members should participate in the political process. The Church also affirms its constitutional right of expression on political and social issues.

Sincerely yours,
Thomas S. Monson
Henry B. Eyring
Dieter F. Uchtdorf
The First Presidency
Romney fits it very well, also the Utah mormons.
Romney does not fit that very well. Neither do the Utah Mormons who don’t do exactly what was asked.

We also urge you to spend the time needed to become informed about the issues and candidates you will be considering

You have already been informed by many people how Romney is unfamiliar or in opposition to the constitution in his political views and actions by others on this form. Which youn continue to ignore.

Furthermore the scriptures instructed in more detail then the first presidency message that.



D&c 98

4 And now, verily I say unto you concerning the laws of the land, it is my will that my people should observe to do all things whatsoever I command them.
5 And that law of the land which is constitutional, supporting that principle of freedom in maintaining rights and privileges, belongs to all mankind, and is justifiable before me.
6 Therefore, I, the Lord, justify you, and your brethren of my church, in befriending that law which is the constitutional law of the land;
7 And as pertaining to law of man, whatsoever is more or less than this, cometh of evil.

So doing thing such as supporting laws that are unconstitutional will only bring about evil. Romney has already exspessed his support of unconstitutional laws and worked in his state to make unconstitutional laws.


8 I, the Lord God, make you free, therefore ye are free indeed; and the law also maketh you free.
9 Nevertheless, when the wicked rule the people mourn.
10 Wherefore, honest men and wise men should be sought for diligently, and good men and wise men ye should observe to uphold; otherwise whatsoever is less than these cometh of evil.

Upholding men who are not constitutional will only bring evil.

So yes it’s very very important to follow the first presidency message of being involved in voting and becoming informed about the issues and candidates knowing what the scriptures say about supporting unconstitutionally principled men like Romney.

Now since this is backed by both scriptures and the first presidency message it’s is truly a strong and valid argument.

But I do invite you to use scriptures to show how supporting a person with unconstitutional principles is somehow a good righteous thing and I will jump on your band wagon with you.

larsenb
Level 34 Illuminated
Posts: 10812
Location: Between here and Standing Rock

Re: Hatch to Retire - Possible Senator Romney?

Post by larsenb »

Arenera wrote: January 10th, 2018, 7:25 pm . .. . . .
The following letter was issued by the First Presidency of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints on October 5, 2016, to be read to Church congregations throughout the United States:

Dear Brothers and Sisters:

Political Participation, Voting, and the Political Neutrality of the Church

As citizens we have the privilege and duty of electing office holders and influencing public policy. Participation in the political process affects our communities and nation today and in the future. We urge Latter-day Saints to be active citizens by registering, exercising their right to vote, and engaging in civic affairs.

We also urge you to spend the time needed to become informed about the issues and candidates you will be considering. Along with the options available to you through the Internet, debates, and other sources, the Church occasionally posts information about particular moral issues on which it has taken a position at www.MormonNewsroom.org.

Principles compatible with the gospel may be found in various political parties, and members should seek candidates who best embody those principles.

While the Church affirms its institutional neutrality regarding political parties and candidates, individual members should participate in the political process. The Church also affirms its constitutional right of expression on political and social issues.

Sincerely yours,
Thomas S. Monson
Henry B. Eyring
Dieter F. Uchtdorf
The First Presidency
A much better recommendation. I really like it, especially regarding principles . . . but would have liked to see a specific mention of the importance of the principles of freedom, such as quoted by Ezra, above.

lundbaek
Level 34 Illuminated
Posts: 11123
Location: Mesa, Arizona

Re: Hatch to Retire - Possible Senator Romney?

Post by lundbaek »

Probably the strongest statement applicable to this matter of Mitt Romney's suitability for POTUS that I know of by a living prophet was that by President Mckay, made on two occasions. "Let every loyal member of the Church look with scorn upon and man or woman who would undermine that Constitution." You may not think that Mitt Romney undermined the Constitution by promoting and advocating such things as mandatory government-run healthcare, war without a declaration of war by the Congress, "Bailouts" of floundering businesses with taxpayer money, denial of trial and the right of habeus corpus to those accused (not found guilty) of perceived terrorism, specifically the National Defense Authorization Act, and the Patriot Act, which allows homes to be entered and searched without probable cause. But he did, even if just be making other people think those things are good because he is LDS and holds the Priesthood. Many LDS voters think that if Mitt supports something it must be good.

Fiannan
Level 34 Illuminated
Posts: 12983

Re: Hatch to Retire - Possible Senator Romney?

Post by Fiannan »

Arenera wrote: January 10th, 2018, 9:35 pm
Fiannan wrote: January 10th, 2018, 9:22 pm
Arenera wrote: January 10th, 2018, 1:15 pm
Fiannan wrote: January 10th, 2018, 1:03 pm

Not asking for a breakdown of the 2016 vote in Utah. I am asking you if you think Evan McMullin is a good choice for congress.
Like I said, that is for Utahns to decide.
Yet you are the cheerleader for Romney in regards to the Utah position. Why not give us your opinion of Evan McMullin?
Like I said, I’m not in Utah and don’t have an opinion.
Yet you have an opinion about Romney. Why, if you have no residence in Utah?

Fiannan
Level 34 Illuminated
Posts: 12983

Re: Hatch to Retire - Possible Senator Romney?

Post by Fiannan »

A much better recommendation. I really like it, especially regarding principles . . . but would have liked to see a specific mention of the importance of the principles of freedom, such as quoted by Ezra, above.
Then you would have to contact the Church legal and/or public affairs department to get them to write up a statement that mentions those principles.

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