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BruceRGilbert
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Re: Does polygamy lean more towards love or lust in your opinion?

Post by BruceRGilbert »

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This was the most "gender neutral" meme that I could find.

gardener4life
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Re: Does polygamy lean more towards love or lust in your opinion?

Post by gardener4life »

I suppose the sources in the scriptures that talk about it being an abomination are talking about when it was self instigated. For example;

Jacob 2:10 But, notwithstanding the greatness of the task, I must do according to the strict commands of God, and tell you concerning your wickedness and abominations, in the presence of the pure in heart, and the broken heart, and under the glance of the piercing eye of the Almighty God.

Jacob calls certain practices wicked and abominations. And then you see he does quote certain bad examples, like verse 23 in the same chapter;

23 But the word of God burdens me because of your grosser crimes. For behold, thus saith the Lord: This people begin to wax in iniquity; they understand not the scriptures, for they seek to excuse themselves in committing whoredoms, because of the things which were written concerning David, and Solomon his son.

There are other verses like in the Jaredites where it's talking about people dwelling in captivity all their days...which can be related to this somewhat in that there's a wrong and a right way for society to be treating one another. I can see why some people might perceive polygamy like a type of captivity but I don't think very righteous people will feel this way. (see below)

But he didn't quote everyone being like David and Solomon. There is a distinction.

Abraham and Israel weren't called out for being wicked or desiring this practice. But it's interesting that I don't think both Abraham or Israel/Jacob meant to practice this themselves. It was sort of thrust upon them and asked without them pre-meditating it. I think that has a lot to do with it. And the reason for that is that people like Abraham and Israel had a very kind childlike faith and personality of thinking no evil. I think they were the type of people that if you left young children with them, you'd never worry about your kids, except for maybe worrying your kids would like them more than you. It also should be noted that Abraham and Israel both really loved children and it wasn't about lust. They wanted to provide happiness to their family and make it a place of simple child like love. (Recall Jacob's grief when the other sons told him Joseph was slain by beasts. Also Abraham's grief over not being able to have children with Sarai.)

Some people are just so innocent, pure, and Christ like that I think a lot of people think it would be a privilege to be around them. There's not a lot of really great people like this. A lot of people have had kids that are wicked, and are probably yearning for some good pure righteous kids in the next life. There's this concept of yearning for a wholesome family, both on the part of people being adopted into a family and those adopting kids into them. When we're ready to really accept all of God's children that are innocent and pure then we'll be able to understand this principle more.

(Yet its supposed to be a system of pure love, hope, and happiness for all family members.)

One problem that I see is currently our society is at the point where it's where they will cast out the poor and the innocent and righteous instead of welcoming them. Even some LDS families if the leader of the home, either sister or brother came home with someone new that needed a home they would react negatively. So...if that's the case then we're not ready to really understand this principle yet because we're still having a hard time with turning away really poor people even if they are good, if they don't fit the perfect image of what people are like on TV.

If you think about it in terms of families need support, and there's going to be a shortage of whole families...its possible that some families might be asked to bring in other children that are pure and righteous. If that's the case and if we can think of it this way then isn't that maybe closer to what Heavenly Father thinks in building families?

I guess we shouldn't think in terms of 'polygamy' or 'not polygamy' but instead how does Heavenly Father build families?

Fiannan
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Re: Does polygamy lean more towards love or lust in your opinion?

Post by Fiannan »

With so many men opting out of marriage, and advancements in robotic technologies that are progressing faster than many imagined just a few years ago, many, many women will have one of two options to have babies: artificial insemination or be darn-near-perfect in order to get one of the few men wishing to go the traditional way of marriage and babies. I believe the former will be more common than the latter if society maintains insisting that monogamy is the only right way.

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BruceRGilbert
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Re: Does polygamy lean more towards love or lust in your opinion?

Post by BruceRGilbert »

CelestialAngel wrote:
BruceRGilbert wrote: December 23rd, 2017, 12:37 pm Image


This was the most "gender neutral" meme that I could find.
I asked for opinions one way or the other, not cop outs.
A story is told of a young boy who lived in a tribe where there was an old, sage, shaman. The tribe members would frequent the man seeking questions to many of their life's perplexities because of his wisdom. The young boy thought to himself that he was going to put one over on the old man and illustrate that he wasn't "all that." He formulated a plan to take in his hands, behind his back, a live pigeon - to the old man. He would ask him, "I have a bird in my hands behind my back, is it alive or is it dead?" The boy reasoned that if the shaman told him and his audience that the bird was alive, he would crush it and expose it as being dead. If the shaman pronounced that the bird was dead, he would reveal the live bird. When the time came - and, indeed, there was an audience - the boy approached and inquired, "I have concealed behind my back, a bird. Tell me, Wise One, is it alive or dead?" The boy was somewhat uncomfortable as the he realized that he was the recipient of a discerning, piercing gaze. The challenge was met with the unanticipated reply, "As you wish, my son - it is as you wish."

Without further "cop outs," and to reply to your question - some consider love to be lust and some consider lust to be love. It is as you wish. ;)
Titus 1:15 Unto the pure all things are pure: but unto them that are defiled and unbelieving is nothing pure; but even their mind and conscience is defiled.
As God intended it . . . polygamy was meant to be pure. In the story of Abraham, it was a gift from his wife that ended in jealousy and tragedy - dividing nations and causing war. It is fraught with the revelation of human weakness and persecution.

In speaking with the owner of a business for whom I worked, I recall being in a meeting where the conversation was vectored to the topic of "turn-ons." This man revealed that if something wasn't a little bit "dirty," it wasn't a "turn-on." I regret having heard that conversation. I have learned that such things ought to be received as "gifts" and "sharing" - not to be consumed upon someone's lust for self-satisfaction.

Please approach the following, "prayerfully:"

Consent from one's spouse is a prerequisite of any such relationship. In the case of "man" being gifted - it is called, "The Law of Sarah."
Doctrine and Covenants 132:34 God commanded Abraham, and Sarah gave Hagar to Abraham to wife. And why did she do it? Because this was the law; and from Hagar sprang many people. This, therefore, was fulfilling, among other things, the promises.
It can be circumvented as it was in the case of Emma Smith:
Doctrine and Covenants 132:64 And again, verily, verily, I say unto you, if any man have a wife, who holds the keys of this power, and he teaches unto her the law of my priesthood, as pertaining to these things, then shall she believe and administer unto him, or she shall be destroyed, saith the Lord your God; for I will destroy her; for I will magnify my name upon all those who receive and abide in my law.
65 Therefore, it shall be lawful in me, if she receive not this law, for him to receive all things whatsoever I, the Lord his God, will give unto him, because she did not believe and administer unto him according to my word; and she then becomes the transgressor; and he is exempt from the law of Sarah, who administered unto Abraham according to the law when I commanded Abraham to take Hagar to wife.


I, personally, believe that this "gifting" is a two way street with the following evidence:
Doctrine and Covenants 132:41 And as ye have asked concerning adultery, verily, verily, I say unto you, if a man receiveth a wife in the new and everlasting covenant, and if she be with another man, and I have not appointed unto her by the holy anointing, she hath committed adultery and shall be destroyed.
42 If she be not in the new and everlasting covenant, and she be with another man, she has committed adultery.
Please note, from the foregoing scripture that the Prophet had asked concerning adultery. One ought to ask why this issue was on the Prophets mind to the point of taking it to the Lord.

Consider the following verses:
Doctrine and Covenants 132:50 Behold, I have seen your sacrifices, and will forgive all your sins; I have seen your sacrifices in obedience to that which I have told you. Go, therefore, and I make a way for your escape, as I accepted the offering of Abraham of his son Isaac.
Doctrine and Covenants 132:56 And again, verily I say, let mine handmaid forgive my servant Joseph his trespasses; and then shall she be forgiven her trespasses, wherein she has trespassed against me; and I, the Lord thy God, will bless her, and multiply her, and make her heart to rejoice.
Doctrine and Covenants 132:60 Let no one, therefore, set on my servant Joseph; for I will justify him; for he shall do the sacrifice which I require at his hands for his transgressions, saith the Lord your God.
Note the extensiveness of the Sealing Power given to the Prophet Joseph Smith:
Doctrine and Covenants 132:46 And verily, verily, I say unto you, that whatsoever you seal on earth shall be sealed in heaven; and whatsoever you bind on earth, in my name and by my word, saith the Lord, it shall be eternally bound in the heavens; and whosesoever sins you remit on earth shall be remitted eternally in the heavens; and whosesoever sins you retain on earth shall be retained in heaven.
47 And again, verily I say, whomsoever you bless I will bless, and whomsoever you curse I will curse, saith the Lord; for I, the Lord, am thy God.
48 And again, verily I say unto you, my servant Joseph, that whatsoever you give on earth, and to whomsoever you give any one on earth, by my word and according to my law, it shall be visited with blessings and not cursings, and with my power, saith the Lord, and shall be without condemnation on earth and in heaven.
It has been noted elsewhere on this forum that Emma was unaware of some of the Prophets wives as has been substantiated on the Church's website . . . which reference I do not currently have.
The following information is presented for a "balance:"

https://youtu.be/rjao6DiN2DY

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BruceRGilbert
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Re: Does polygamy lean more towards love or lust in your opinion?

Post by BruceRGilbert »

Initially it is lust and eventually it is love. We progress through "stages" of development. Please see other postings of which I have authored to understand why this is so.

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brianj
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Re: Does polygamy lean more towards love or lust in your opinion?

Post by brianj »

CelestialAngel wrote: December 23rd, 2017, 11:48 am To me there is nothing more beautiful than 1 husband and 1 wife loving and spending eternity with each other. Somehow to me it loses it's specialness if that 1 man has 5 other women on the side and since the 1900s only fundamentalists and people in middle east and Africa have practiced it and it seems to hurt a lot of tender women's feelings. So what is your opinion of polygamy? Love or lust? I say lust and say monogamy is true unfeigned devotion and love.
I say it isn't so black and white. One person I know has a very close friend who was a polygamous wife for a time, and she knows from personal experience that the men she associated with were there out of lust. But I will not accuse the Lord's anointed of lust. I will not accuse Joseph Smith, John Taylor, or any other church leader of sinning.

And I will readily confess that part of me wants polygamy to return. I have met a few wonderful divorced women as I have sought support for my own divorce, and I have come across a lot of very discouraged women. Some wonder if their only alternatives are to be single for the rest of their lives or to marry a man who is either not LDS or not faithful. I have heard that temple worthy single men outnumber temple worthy single women by about 7:1, but someone told me that when she has attended single adult events it seems like women outnumber men 10:1. I may not want polygamy for myself (I hope to have the kind of love where taking an additional wife would hurt me as much as it hurts her) but I wish for this order of marriage so these women I have met can have the husband and extended family they dream of.

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Bridgey
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Re: Does polygamy lean more towards love or lust in your opinion?

Post by Bridgey »

Different for everyone. For me, like most newly married Mormon men, a large degree of lust to begin with and the rest love. Overtime, if the relationship is nurtured, love overtakes lust. This is why u see oldies still hand in hand walking down the street.

I believe it would be the same for Polygamy. Lust and love are forever shifting. None are concrete. Any man that doesn't have some form of lust towards their future spouse probably isn't attracted to her.

Ezra
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Re: Does polygamy lean more towards love or lust in your opinion?

Post by Ezra »

I used to think polygamy would be nice. My thoughts more on the Lust full side.
Now i think it would be a ton of work. And am not interested in it. Wouldn’t unless commanded too.

I however think that it would be challenging more for women then men. But also more rewarding for women then men if they bonded as good freinds with the other wife’s and had that company and companionship and help.
It would be hell if they didn’t.

davedan
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Re: Does polygamy lean more towards love or lust in your opinion?

Post by davedan »

One man and one woman is the ideal. But in this fallen world, in my opinion, polygamy and adoption were to be an ancient welfare system.

The fatherless and widows were to be cared for through families. Any other motivation for adoption or polygamy other than to care for the fatherless and widow would be sin.

1 Tim 5:14-16 I will therefore that the younger women (widows) marry, bear children, guide the house, give none occasion to the adversary to speak reproachfully. For some are already turned aside after Satan. If any man or woman that believeth have widows, let them relieve them, and let not the church be charged; that it may relieve them that are widows indeed.

Thankfully, we currently use an alternative welfare system.
Last edited by davedan on December 23rd, 2017, 5:48 pm, edited 3 times in total.

MMbelieve
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Re: Does polygamy lean more towards love or lust in your opinion?

Post by MMbelieve »

You cannot expect or ask a man polygamous wives to "bond" and get along. If they do, it's their choice and they are doing it for their own reasons. A man takes additional.wives, they are his wives not her besties. To me, as along woman, it is a slap in the face or a mockery to ask me to bond with my husbands outside lovers.

If a woman asked her husband to bond and become close with her outside lovers, does it not ignight something inside the man? But women are thought to be such social creatures needing the love and support of other women so naturally his wives would all benefit and get along? I believe this is a false narrative.

Men are competitive with men , think about how they act naturally when trying to gain the attention and devotion of the same woman.

Women are competitive naturally, think about the excessive makeup and other physical expressions of superiority over other women. Women compete for the attention of men, not women. Women need the companionship of men, they are womens counter balance. Men aren't a threat to women, women are a threat to women. Don't believe me just turn on the TV or walk through a school yard.

In a polygamous relationship there is a top man (obvious who that one is) and there is a top woman. All the other women will be under her in some way and never feel what many men describe women gaining in polygamous arrangements.

A man takes another wife, his first wife has zero expectations to wife no.2. She is not required to like her, get along with her or spend any time with her. I watches a muslim women explain this in a video. Hey, did you know that many muslim men who give polygamy a go, end up divorcing? .And better yet, they tell their guy friends to not do it.
There is way too much expectation on the women when a man decides to take more wives when the only expectations are on him. His wife his job his responsibility, why ask the other wives to make it easier on you? Granted, don't make it harder on him (according to the muslim woman who understands she has no right in his taking more wives) but you don't have to make it easy either.

gardener4life
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Re: Does polygamy lean more towards love or lust in your opinion?

Post by gardener4life »

I can tell you from personal experience that the plan of salvation is both individual and collective. I find this interesting. Many of the commandments apply collectively to God's children. Thou shalt not kill for example and the other commandments. And if we're not careful we forget that many of the rewards really are individually specific. (Collective has a part in that families are a good mix of having both collective and individually specific blessings.)

When you are seeking Heavenly Father in prayer, reading your scriptures, and keeping your commitments there will be a time where he will touch you in a way to let you know there are specific individual rewards just for you unique from other children. You'll just have to take that it will work out somehow by some of the invidually specific rewards that he has a place for you. (...in my Father's house are many mansions...) And one of the things you learn about in how Heavenly Father works is that this world is so big and huge so that he can accomodate specific individual adaptations of the many species of animals on this planet, like birds for example. If he can work things out so a hummingbird can still be different from other birds, and that honeybees can be clean, neat, and make honey when other insects seem gross, then surely he can create a position in the continuation of time after time ends where you can be happy and have your needs met.

MMbelieve
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Re: Does polygamy lean more towards love or lust in your opinion?

Post by MMbelieve »

CelestialAngel wrote: December 23rd, 2017, 11:48 am To me there is nothing more beautiful than 1 husband and 1 wife loving and spending eternity with each other. Somehow to me it loses it's specialness if that 1 man has 5 other women on the side and since the 1900s only fundamentalists and people in middle east and Africa have practiced it and it seems to hurt a lot of tender women's feelings. So what is your opinion of polygamy? Love or lust? I say lust and say monogamy is true unfeigned devotion and love.
I haven't seen or heard or witnesses a happy polygamist union. I don't believe that either men or women have the time or energy or ability to have more than one spouse.

We cannot even accomplish monogamy yet so even thinking of polygamy is a foolish. of course, in my understanding polygamy is not the ideal anyway. It's not love, it's an arrangement. It's not equal or fair and for people who truly have love for their spouse, it's a mockery. If men view women as themselves (true love and becoming one) then he wouldn't want polygamy. I believe men who want polygamy are those who believe they have something over women and do not view them as his equal.

It may, hoqever, attempt to solve a number of temporal issues but what if it was adopted and we did away with gov. welfare and a whole host of other issues arose just because of polygamy?

Looking at our society the way it is, we already live polygamy secretly through affairs and other means of sexual expression outside of legal marriage. If we legalize it, it will basically say it's okay for only men to have other women and force society to accept it as normal behavior. If we legalize polygamy then we would absolutely have to legalize it for both genders. A man can have extra and so can a woman.

And since the world is going the homosexual and selfish route, I imagine men would marry men and women would marry women more often then men having many wives and women having many husbands.

I think its best to stay with monogamy

djinwa
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Re: Does polygamy lean more towards love or lust in your opinion?

Post by djinwa »

The OP assumes that only men lust. But women also lust, especially for money.

So the lust in polygamy depends on the situation. If a choice for a woman was to marry either a janitor making $25,000 a year, or a polygamous husband with 4 wives making a million a year, she might take the latter and be happy. Ten times the money.

Since that income is uncommon, most women prefer serial monogamy to polygamy. They want all a man's resources, but soon become disappointed and look for other options, like a man looking for better jobs with more income.

This is why most divorces are initiated by women, and most are about money issues.

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Col. Flagg
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Re: Does polygamy lean more towards love or lust in your opinion?

Post by Col. Flagg »

Satan couldn't have devised a more clever way of destroying the sanctity of marriage and the family unit than by attempting to get something like polygamy validated as a practice.

Fiannan
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Re: Does polygamy lean more towards love or lust in your opinion?

Post by Fiannan »

You cannot expect or ask a man polygamous wives to "bond" and get along. If they do, it's their choice and they are doing it for their own reasons. A man takes additional.wives, they are his wives not her besties. To me, as along woman, it is a slap in the face or a mockery to ask me to bond with my husbands outside lovers.
I would suggest an examination of evolutionary psychology to see this is not so. Women tend to not be so nice to each other unless a man is around. Women subconsciously know that what attracts the attention of a man is kindness as the man wants a caring mother to take care of his offspring. So yes, there would be some competition for the husband's attention in polygamy by all the wives but actually they benefit from it as the family unit is one entity.

As for any sort of explanation one could look up some of the research Christopher Ryan has done. He suggests humans are designed for group family arrangements. Look up his talk, "If You Want Fidelity Get a Dog." Also, higher primate females tend to group together when a male primate is being less-than-kind. I have read cases when the Church encouraged polygamy where a man was in an argument with one wife, but when he just figured he could get the sympathy of one of the other wives they almost always took the side of the other woman.

Ironically, this is why the sexual revolution took off as it did. The powers-that-be that promoted it targeted females for alteration of attitudes and once a critical mass of women bought into it then they became the champions of free sex and love, on their terms of course.
If a woman asked her husband to bond and become close with her outside lovers, does it not ignight something inside the man? But women are thought to be such social creatures needing the love and support of other women so naturally his wives would all benefit and get along? I believe this is a false narrative.
Again, research in psychology counters this.
Men are competitive with men , think about how they act naturally when trying to gain the attention and devotion of the same woman.
So now you are saying polygamy is unfair to men?
Women are competitive naturally, think about the excessive makeup and other physical expressions of superiority over other women. Women compete for the attention of men, not women. Women need the companionship of men, they are womens counter balance. Men aren't a threat to women, women are a threat to women. Don't believe me just turn on the TV or walk through a school yard.
The Bible does not condemn women coveting a married man as the 10 Commandments assumes a polygamist culture. Therefore single women with the hots for a married man was absolutely no problem in Hebrew culture. The problem comes in when women must either assume they will not get a husband, have to settle on an inferior husband or get a superior husband. In monogamy most women will fall into the first two categories while with polygamy there is a chance for more to get a superior husband.
In a polygamous relationship there is a top man (obvious who that one is) and there is a top woman. All the other women will be under her in some way and never feel what many men describe women gaining in polygamous arrangements.
Actually this is not true.

Fiannan
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Re: Does polygamy lean more towards love or lust in your opinion?

Post by Fiannan »

By the way, in a few years we may as well debate what is the best ox to use to plow our fields. The marriage relationship as we know it will be destroyed by a variety of forces, sex robots and virtual reality for instance, and the typical family will be more lesbian, bi-sexual if a man is incorporated into the unit (polyamory) with most men opting out of marriage all together.

Polygamy will exist, but wives will see each other in the romantic context. Why the heck do you think the powers-that-be are doing their best to create the new social norms that are sweeping the young female population?

MMbelieve
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Re: Does polygamy lean more towards love or lust in your opinion?

Post by MMbelieve »

Fiannan wrote: December 24th, 2017, 2:01 am
You cannot expect or ask a man polygamous wives to "bond" and get along. If they do, it's their choice and they are doing it for their own reasons. A man takes additional.wives, they are his wives not her besties. To me, as along woman, it is a slap in the face or a mockery to ask me to bond with my husbands outside lovers.
I would suggest an examination of evolutionary psychology to see this is not so. Women tend to not be so nice to each other unless a man is around. Women subconsciously know that what attracts the attention of a man is kindness as the man wants a caring mother to take care of his offspring. So yes, there would be some competition for the husband's attention in polygamy by all the wives but actually they benefit from it as the family unit is one entity.

As for any sort of explanation one could look up some of the research Christopher Ryan has done. He suggests humans are designed for group family arrangements. Look up his talk, "If You Want Fidelity Get a Dog." Also, higher primate females tend to group together when a male primate is being less-than-kind. I have read cases when the Church encouraged polygamy where a man was in an argument with one wife, but when he just figured he could get the sympathy of one of the other wives they almost always took the side of the other woman.

Ironically, this is why the sexual revolution took off as it did. The powers-that-be that promoted it targeted females for alteration of attitudes and once a critical mass of women bought into it then they became the champions of free sex and love, on their terms of course.
If a woman asked her husband to bond and become close with her outside lovers, does it not ignight something inside the man? But women are thought to be such social creatures needing the love and support of other women so naturally his wives would all benefit and get along? I believe this is a false narrative.
Again, research in psychology counters this.
Men are competitive with men , think about how they act naturally when trying to gain the attention and devotion of the same woman.
So now you are saying polygamy is unfair to men?
Women are competitive naturally, think about the excessive makeup and other physical expressions of superiority over other women. Women compete for the attention of men, not women. Women need the companionship of men, they are womens counter balance. Men aren't a threat to women, women are a threat to women. Don't believe me just turn on the TV or walk through a school yard.
The Bible does not condemn women coveting a married man as the 10 Commandments assumes a polygamist culture. Therefore single women with the hots for a married man was absolutely no problem in Hebrew culture. The problem comes in when women must either assume they will not get a husband, have to settle on an inferior husband or get a superior husband. In monogamy most women will fall into the first two categories while with polygamy there is a chance for more to get a superior husband.
In a polygamous relationship there is a top man (obvious who that one is) and there is a top woman. All the other women will be under her in some way and never feel what many men describe women gaining in polygamous arrangements.
Actually this is not true.
Fiannan, it is rather insulting to tell a woman what she will or will not do or experience in any given situation. Your not a woman, you can read all the books you want but you do not know the social life of women because you are not a woman.

But go ahead and keep telling us women that polygamy is what we should want and that polygamy will makes us better and happier and whatever else. I do not know of any woman who is eager for polygmay.

MMbelieve
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Re: Does polygamy lean more towards love or lust in your opinion?

Post by MMbelieve »

Fiannan wrote: December 24th, 2017, 2:06 am By the way, in a few years we may as well debate what is the best ox to use to plow our fields. The marriage relationship as we know it will be destroyed by a variety of forces, sex robots and virtual reality for instance, and the typical family will be more lesbian, bi-sexual if a man is incorporated into the unit (polyamory) with most men opting out of marriage all together.

Polygamy will exist, but wives will see each other in the romantic context. Why the heck do you think the powers-that-be are doing their best to create the new social norms that are sweeping the young female population?
Yes, we know that the adversaries plan is destroy everything good. He wants to destroy men women as nd prevent children from being born or born into a stable home with a father and and mother.
So why do you think polygamy is anything different? God's standard is monogamy. Polygmay can be added to the various things you mentioned above, it's a perversion as well. In general, people don't want it, they find it distasteful, hurtful and burdensome. People accept gay marriage more than polygamy, why is that? Because gay marriage isint as distasteful as polygmay is.

if I grew up in a different culture or a different era, I may find it less distasteful but that would only be because it was accepted and not outside of the norm. But then again, I believe my aversion to polygmay is deeper than my cultural upbringing or beliefs thrown onto me. It feels wrong in my core. And many many others feel the same way.

If it happens then have a hay day with your wifes approval of course, but if it doesn't I hope that you will be happy with the 1 wife you do have. It must be hard to desire something you cannot have. I wonder if that falls under the thou shall not covet commandment?

Fiannan
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Re: Does polygamy lean more towards love or lust in your opinion?

Post by Fiannan »

People accept gay marriage more than polygamy, why is that? Because gay marriage isint as distasteful as polygmay is.
What does the Bible say?
It must be hard to desire something you cannot have. I wonder if that falls under the thou shall not covet commandment?
True, one must feel sad for all the daughters in Zion that will grow old and die without having had the chance to marry and raise children.

MMbelieve
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Re: Does polygamy lean more towards love or lust in your opinion?

Post by MMbelieve »

djinwa wrote: December 23rd, 2017, 11:23 pm The OP assumes that only men lust. But women also lust, especially for money.

So the lust in polygamy depends on the situation. If a choice for a woman was to marry either a janitor making $25,000 a year, or a polygamous husband with 4 wives making a million a year, she might take the latter and be happy. Ten times the money.

Since that income is uncommon, most women prefer serial monogamy to polygamy. They want all a man's resources, but soon become disappointed and look for other options, like a man looking for better jobs with more income.

This is why most divorces are initiated by women, and most are about money issues.
If this is really what people believe women are then why do average Joe's have a wife?

Seriously why do any of you guys even bother with marriage? Sounds like women really suck.

So depressing.

I don't know any women who have divorced over him not being rich enough and I don't know of any women complaining around me about their husbands not making enough. I do however hear other complaints women have against men in general. Perhaps I live in a bubble because I don't hear money as an issue. Selfishness and laziness and immaturity are the main ones.

Why don't you guys work on these things and maybe money won't be the deciding factor on if she wants to stay married or not. Because money over husband means she either never loved you or fell out of love with you.

MMbelieve
Level 34 Illuminated
Posts: 5072

Re: Does polygamy lean more towards love or lust in your opinion?

Post by MMbelieve »

Fiannan wrote: December 24th, 2017, 2:45 am
People accept gay marriage more than polygamy, why is that? Because gay marriage isint as distasteful as polygmay is.
What does the Bible say?
It must be hard to desire something you cannot have. I wonder if that falls under the thou shall not covet commandment?
True, one must feel sad for all the daughters in Zion that will grow old and die without having had the chance to marry and raise children.
Well the bible states that man should not lay with man or something like that. It has regulations for operating polygamy bit doesn't state either way if it's good or bad. But the bible really doesn't matter with what I said. People accept gay marriage more than polygamy in our society. I have to assume it's because gay marriage is more tolerable in general and easier to understand.

But religious people are very opposed to gay marriage because of the Bible and they also are opposed to polygamy.

There are also plenty of single men who could marry these women. They may not be members or temple recommend holders but they are men, and that's pretty much what it takes to get a woman pregnant. Perhaps if these women cared about having children so much and a spouse to grow old with they would be willing to marry a man who is not ideal or perfect as far as church expectations go. There are tons of great men outside of our church and plenty of not so great ones both in and out of the church.

Think about it, if she wants to marry in the temple so she can have an eternal marriage then she may very well grow old before having the chance at children or a husband. If she went ahead and got married and had her kids but not her temple sealing, then she can hope to have it someday either with him or someone else when all is made right in the end. Either way she waiting, why not have the kids and have the companionship of marriage?

If I was single and desired more than anything to be a mom, I wouldn't mind marrying a non-member.

Fiannan
Level 34 Illuminated
Posts: 12983

Re: Does polygamy lean more towards love or lust in your opinion?

Post by Fiannan »

Fiannan, it is rather insulting to tell a woman what she will or will not do or experience in any given situation. Your not a woman, you can read all the books you want but you do not know the social life of women because you are not a woman.

But go ahead and keep telling us women that polygamy is what we should want and that polygamy will makes us better and happier and whatever else. I do not know of any woman who is eager for polygmay.
And yet it seems you are able to speak for all women?

If polygamy was allowed then why be freaked out about it? If it is as bad as you seem to think no women would enter into it, now would they? Or are you fearful that a significant number would choose it?

Fiannan
Level 34 Illuminated
Posts: 12983

Re: Does polygamy lean more towards love or lust in your opinion?

Post by Fiannan »

There are also plenty of single men who could marry these women. They may not be members or temple recommend holders but they are men, and that's pretty much what it takes to get a woman pregnant. Perhaps if these women cared about having children so much and a spouse to grow old with they would be willing to marry a man who is not ideal or perfect as far as church expectations go. There are tons of great men outside of our church and plenty of not so great ones both in and out of the church.
Sadly, not enough men nowadays resemble the man on the left while too many men resemble the one on the right.

Image

MMbelieve
Level 34 Illuminated
Posts: 5072

Re: Does polygamy lean more towards love or lust in your opinion?

Post by MMbelieve »

Fiannan wrote: December 24th, 2017, 3:17 am
There are also plenty of single men who could marry these women. They may not be members or temple recommend holders but they are men, and that's pretty much what it takes to get a woman pregnant. Perhaps if these women cared about having children so much and a spouse to grow old with they would be willing to marry a man who is not ideal or perfect as far as church expectations go. There are tons of great men outside of our church and plenty of not so great ones both in and out of the church.
Sadly, not enough men nowadays resemble the man on the left while too many men resemble the one on the right.

Image
Yes, lots of men went to war because they were drafted! To say every many who was drafted is a man that wanted to be there is false.

Now, take that picture on the right and put him in a uniform, he's now a bona-fide man.

Did you serve? What branch?

Fiannan
Level 34 Illuminated
Posts: 12983

Re: Does polygamy lean more towards love or lust in your opinion?

Post by Fiannan »

Now, take that picture on the right and put him in a uniform, he's now a bona-fide man.
You sure about that?

Image

What defines a male is the desire to better himself intellectually, spiritually and physically. He also needs to be someone who can and does stand for his beliefs. These attributes have been bred out of many young men today by a society seeking to weaken marriage and family. And yes, I do believe a central attribute of being a man is the desire to create a family.

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