Deleted

[oneClimbs]

Jacob 1:15 which is often not quoted: “And now it came to pass that the people of Nephi, under the reign of the second king, began to grow hard in their hearts, and indulge themselves somewhat in wicked practices, such as like unto David of old desiring many wives and concubines, and also Solomon, his son.”

Desiring many wives and concubines is called a “wicked practice” which is tame for what it is called in Jacob 2 and 3. Here are the words and phrases associated with the practice.

* crimes (2:9)
* enlarge the wounds (2:9)
* wounded (2:9)
* wounds (2:9)
* wounded (2:9)
* daggers placed to pierce their souls and wound their delicate minds (2:9)
* your wickedness and abominations (2:10)
* broken heart (2:10)
* grosser crime (2:22)
* grosser crimes (2:23)
* iniquity (2:23)
* they understand not the scriptures (2:23)
* they seek to excuse themselves (2:23)
* whoredoms (2:23)
* abominable (2:24)
* one wife, concubines none (2:27)
* whoredoms (2:28)
* abomination (2:28)
* sorrow (2:31)
* mourning (2:31)
* wickedness (2:31)
* abominations (2:31)
* cries (2:32)
* lead away captive the daughters…because of their tenderness (2:33)
* whoredoms (2:33)
* ye have done these things which ye ought not have done (2:34)
* greater iniquities than the Lamanites (2:35)
* broken hearts of your tender wives (2:35)
* lost confidence of your children (2:35)
* your bad examples (2:35)
* sobbings of their hearts (2:35)
* many hearts died pierced with deep wounds (2:35)
* not pure in heart (3:3)
* filthy (3:3)
* filthy (3:3)
* they should have save it were one wife, and concubines they should have none (3:5)
* whoredoms (3:5)
* ye have grieved their hearts because of the example that ye have set before them (3:10)
* sins (3:10)
* slumber of death (3:11)
* pains of hell (3:11)
* angels to the devil (3:11)
* lake of fire and brimstone (3:11)
* second death (3:11)
* fornication (3:12)
* lasciviousness (3:12)
* sin (3:12)
* awful consequences (3:12)

I also believe that we misinterpret Jacob 2:30 http://oneclimbs.com/2017/01/05/a-propo ... jacob-230/

I don’t have all the answers, and like everyone else I am still learning but I cannot see how polygamy can possibly work.

The woman is the only married party. The man can continue to court and date in perpetuity, he cannot obey the command “cleave unto your wife and NONE else.” How can a man be committed when he see’s another woman, is attracted to her and goes through the process of flirting, dating, the ups and downs of all that, engagement, wedding preparations, and balancing sex between many women. The man is never equally yoked, and never really “married” which I think is one of the massive flaws of polygamy and why I don’t even consider it marriage at all.

Even if a man married only once but many women at the same time and never again, how can a man cleave unto all of them simultaneously? Why should the women and the man be robbed of the sacred bond between two people?

I agree with the New Covenant, The Book of Mormon, which thoroughly condemns the “practice” and as for the leaders that perpetuated it among our people, I don’t know what their motivations were. Based on my studies of them, they appeared to believe that this was a truth to be “gathered in” to the doctrines of Zion but this was an error, and I believe the church was punished for it for many years until they discarded it.

That’s the promise in Jacob 2 regarding the practice, it brings destruction and a curse. The church has been smitten with both.

[Original_Intent]

You asked for opinions, not cop-outs, but I am going to give you a cop-out answer that I think is still the most correct.

Polygamy is a thing and can feel neither love nor lust. With any individuals practicing it, you are going to see the spectrum of human emotions, good and bad.

[ajax]

Lust, no doubt about it. Institutionalized lust with promises of glory attached and hell if not heeded.

Justifies the High Priests to continually be looking out for the next up-and-comers out of the YW organizations.

[Fiannan]

Many of the men who practiced polygamy in the 19th Century have descendants that number in the thousands today while many of the men who did not have dried up, root and branch, and have no descendants today.

So unfair...oh wait, there is no word for "fair" in the Hebrew language except in reference to complexion.

[Fiannan]

I agree with the New Covenant, The Book of Mormon, which thoroughly condemns the “practice” and as for the leaders that perpetuated it among our people, I don’t know what their motivations were.

It no more condemns polygamy than the Bible condemns earning money. One can take a scripture condemning the excess of something and then infer it means the original practice is evil, but then we could say even marriage itself is evil as Paul appeared to say a life of celibacy might be a good thing...unless you take what he said in proper context.

[MMbelieve]

I agree with the New Covenant, The Book of Mormon, which thoroughly condemns the “practice” and as for the leaders that perpetuated it among our people, I don’t know what their motivations were.

It no more condemns polygamy than the Bible condemns earning money. One can take a scripture condemning the excess of something and then infer it means the original practice is evil, but then we could say even marriage itself is evil as Paul appeared to say a life of celibacy might be a good thing...unless you take what he said in proper context.

Then one must ask, what is excess when it comes to wives? Brigham Young was know to have stated he can have 999 wives, as long as it wasn't 1000 he wasn't doing as Solomon was therefore it wouldn't be wrong.

999, is a joke for sure and is not practical or possible in practice.

[MMbelieve]

Lust, no doubt about it. Institutionalized lust with promises of glory attached and hell if not heeded.

Justifies the High Priests to continually be looking out for the next up-and-comers out of the YW organizations.

This is certainly creepy. Not sure why many think of polygamous people as child predators but if "mormons" practice it, there is no way they could be as well? Polygamy certainly will walk the line, in this church or any other church or people. If there is a desire to gobble all the women up, men will be watching and waiting for the girls to turn 18. But what of the guys who turn 18? Send them on a mission so the old men can still gobble up the young women.

Your point is very valid.

[Fiannan]

I agree with the New Covenant, The Book of Mormon, which thoroughly condemns the “practice” and as for the leaders that perpetuated it among our people, I don’t know what their motivations were.

It no more condemns polygamy than the Bible condemns earning money. One can take a scripture condemning the excess of something and then infer it means the original practice is evil, but then we could say even marriage itself is evil as Paul appeared to say a life of celibacy might be a good thing...unless you take what he said in proper context.

Then one must ask, what is excess when it comes to wives? Brigham Young was know to have stated he can have 999 wives, as long as it wasn't 1000 he wasn't doing as Solomon was therefore it wouldn't be wrong.

999, is a joke for sure and is not practical or possible in practice.

Apparently Brigham Young understood the Book of Jacob better than many members today.

I think excess is when a man merely takes as many as he can as many as he can as a status symbol while treating some with more favoritism than others. This is why Muslims are only to take 4 wives in this life -- they get 71 white virgins in the next life though, and each wife has female servants he has access to as well.

[MMbelieve]

I agree with the New Covenant, The Book of Mormon, which thoroughly condemns the “practice” and as for the leaders that perpetuated it among our people, I don’t know what their motivations were.

It no more condemns polygamy than the Bible condemns earning money. One can take a scripture condemning the excess of something and then infer it means the original practice is evil, but then we could say even marriage itself is evil as Paul appeared to say a life of celibacy might be a good thing...unless you take what he said in proper context.

Then one must ask, what is excess when it comes to wives? Brigham Young was know to have stated he can have 999 wives, as long as it wasn't 1000 he wasn't doing as Solomon was therefore it wouldn't be wrong.

999, is a joke for sure and is not practical or possible in practice.

Apparently Brigham Young understood the Book of Jacob better than many members today.

I think excess is when a man merely takes as many as he can as many as he can as a status symbol while treating some with more favoritism than others. This is why Muslims are only to take 4 wives in this life -- they get 71 white virgins in the next life though, and each wife has female servants he has access to as well.

Sorry Fiannan, 999 is a great example of gathering as much as you can as a status symbol. Who cares what Muslims think they will get, they are not correct. There is not a host of white busty women for all the men who get to heaven.

Quite interesting though that you use Brigham Young and Muslim's white women harems in the same reply. Muslims believe if they kill a Jew or Christian that they will receive this reward. So what do mormons believe they have to do to get this same reward?

[brianj]

Yes, we know that the adversaries plan is destroy everything good. He wants to destroy men women as nd prevent children from being born or born into a stable home with a father and and mother.
So why do you think polygamy is anything different? God's standard is monogamy. Polygmay can be added to the various things you mentioned above, it's a perversion as well. In general, people don't want it, they find it distasteful, hurtful and burdensome. People accept gay marriage more than polygamy, why is that? Because gay marriage isint as distasteful as polygmay is.

I'm going to disagree with your conclusion. People accept gay marriage because they have been told they are homophobic bigots if they oppose gay marriage.

And if polygamy, when commanded, is a gospel principle, shouldn't we expect worldly opposition to polygamy? We are taught that we should not postpone marriage then have babies as soon as possible. But I know people who call the Mormon church evil and want to change the laws because 18 and 19 year old women who choose to follow the prophet, find a good man, and be married are teenage brides and are therefore being taken advantage of and victimized by the patriarchy.


By the way, I know a lot of people who welcome and embrace polygamy. Muslim men are allowed up to four wives, polygamy is both religious and cultural in Middle Eastern Islam, therefore if American liberals were to oppose Muslim polygamy they would be intolerant, Islamophobic bigots. The reality is probably that a lot of people outwardly supporting gay marriage or Muslim polygamy probably oppose it inwardly but they don't have the strength of character to stand by their inner beliefs.

[MMbelieve]

Yes, we know that the adversaries plan is destroy everything good. He wants to destroy men women as nd prevent children from being born or born into a stable home with a father and and mother.
So why do you think polygamy is anything different? God's standard is monogamy. Polygmay can be added to the various things you mentioned above, it's a perversion as well. In general, people don't want it, they find it distasteful, hurtful and burdensome. People accept gay marriage more than polygamy, why is that? Because gay marriage isint as distasteful as polygmay is.

I'm going to disagree with your conclusion. People accept gay marriage because they have been told they are homophobic bigots if they oppose gay marriage.

And if polygamy, when commanded, is a gospel principle, shouldn't we expect worldly opposition to polygamy? We are taught that we should not postpone marriage then have babies as soon as possible. But I know people who call the Mormon church evil and want to change the laws because 18 and 19 year old women who choose to follow the prophet, find a good man, and be married are teenage brides and are therefore being taken advantage of and victimized by the patriarchy.


By the way, I know a lot of people who welcome and embrace polygamy. Muslim men are allowed up to four wives, polygamy is both religious and cultural in Middle Eastern Islam, therefore if American liberals were to oppose Muslim polygamy they would be intolerant, Islamophobic bigots. The reality is probably that a lot of people outwardly supporting gay marriage or Muslim polygamy probably oppose it inwardly but they don't have the strength of character to stand by their inner beliefs.

Very well might be the case but I believe that if polygamy is legalized, the Church will not adopt it's practice. This will cause problems for many who want to live it and they won't understand why the church won't allow it. Could bring up the fact that polygamy did end by revelation and not because of gov. force.

Either way, it will be interesting to see what unfolds.