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Robin Hood
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Re: Does Deseret Book support Priestcraft?

Post by Robin Hood »

Does Deseret Book support priestcraft?
Absolutely it does!

Juliet
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Re: Does Deseret Book support Priestcraft?

Post by Juliet »

If his talks are "thus saith the Lord" then that is priest craft. If his talks are just his own experiences and beliefs then it is his words and he can make a profit in them if he wants. Does he say in the book that his words are inspired and holy revelation from God? Or just edifying thoughts?

By the way, the church is a corporation. It is more machine now than man.

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Robin Hood
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Re: Does Deseret Book support Priestcraft?

Post by Robin Hood »

Juliet wrote: December 21st, 2017, 6:40 am If his talks are "thus saith the Lord" then that is priest craft. If his talks are just his own experiences and beliefs then it is his words and he can make a profit in them if he wants. Does he say in the book that his words are inspired and holy revelation from God? Or just edifying thoughts?

By the way, the church is a corporation. It is more machine now than man.
While I understand your point, the fact is these are excerpts from general conference sermons.
That takes it to a whole new level as far as I'm concerned.
I find this whole business very distasteful.

drtanner
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Re: Does Deseret Book support Priestcraft?

Post by drtanner »

CelestialAngel wrote: December 20th, 2017, 10:04 pm Deseret Book sells books from the leaders and the newest Dieter F Uchtdorf book has me concerned. It's a 18 dollar book about all his conference stories about airplanes. Can't you just watch or read his conference talks? Why were they compiled into a book to make a profit off of? I question all Apostles and members of the First Presidency who write books that make a profit.

What is your definition of priestcraft? Which part of the definition do you question the brethren in?

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oneClimbs
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Re: Does Deseret Book support Priestcraft?

Post by oneClimbs »

I don't think you can call this priestcraft. Nobody is under an obligation to buy the books and you aren't being kept from salvation because you have to pay to access the information. I've done a little publishing myself and in my business, we do print on demand books as part of a couple of our projects. Like everything else, books are marked up so that there is a profit and incentive to sell them. A book is a good, functional product that can last a lifetime and longer. Having information in that format is of value in and of itself. You can create all kinds of books with all kinds of content. As far as anyone isn't being compelled or guilted into buying I don't see a problem.

I've never purchased a book from any LDS general authority. I typical purchase books on very specific topics and not because of the author, I don't have any problems with general authority books. A good friend of mine for three Christmases in a row got me one of Elder Bednar's three volume "Increase in Learning" series. I read through the first chapter of his first book and shelved it because it seemed to 'primary' and didn't engage me. It wasn't until I read the beginning of the second book and realized that I missed some valuable stuff in chapter 4 of the first book that I went back and read the whole thing.

I was floored because chapter four of that book is something that I think every Latter-day Saint should read. To this day it has shaped my view of doctrines, principles, and applications so I am grateful for it. I have actually seen these teachings begin to appear in the church but maybe I just didn't notice before. So I don't find any problems with a bookstore.

King Benjamin was a leader and king but he still labored with his own hands while he served in his capacity. The same with bishops, stake presidents and all other lay ministers, they serve and they work for a profit. The general authorities, the twelve and the first presidency have given the rest of their entire lives to the service of the Saints. They are on a restricted income, though many may have past investments. I don't see how writing a book is a greedy act, especially since they are writing it to a relatively small audience and you don't make very much money from book sales, TRUST ME. These don't make the New York Times Bestseller List where they are purchased by hundreds of thousands.

I created and published some symbolism cards and sold them, but I also made all the info available for free on LDS Symbols.com. I did a Kickstarter campaign to fund the first run and then made a profit off the rest. I put hours of work into assembling, shipping, and doing all the work that goes with product creation and fulfillment. You only got the cards if you wanted the information in that specific format. I sold about 900 over several years. Sure, I made some profit but probably no more than I make a month in my career. There's kind of a labor of love that goes with creating something and sharing it. $18 is not that much for a book; if you don't want the book, read them for free on LDS.org.

Anyway, my 2 cents.

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marc
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Re: Does Deseret Book support Priestcraft?

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If Deseret book promotes priestcraft, it equally promotes idolatry. Besides, the books are not what they used to be. With very few exceptions like the Joseph Smith Papers, it's mostly info-tainment fluff. The idolatry comes with all the outrageously overpriced statues and figurines and ornaments and paintings and trinkets.

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Re: Does Deseret Book support Priestcraft?

Post by gardener4life »

Jacob 7:7 And ye have led away much of this people that they pervert the right way of God, and keep not the law of Moses / (of the Gospel ) which is the right way; and convert the law of Moses into the worship of a being which ye say shall come many hundred years hence. And now behold, I, Sherem, declare unto you that this is blasphemy; for no man knoweth of such things; for he cannot tell of things to come. And after this manner did Sherem contend against me (the leaders of the church of his day).

2 And it came to pass that he began to preach among the people, and to declare unto them that there should be no Christ (or that the leaders of Christ's church were bad people and not to follow them). And he preached many things which were flattering unto the people; and this he did that he might overthrow the doctrine / leadership of Christ (his church).

3 And he labored diligently that he might lead away the hearts of the people, insomuch that he did lead away many hearts; and he knowing that I, Jacob, had faith in Christ who should come, he sought much opportunity that he might come unto me.

Alma 30:23 ...And Korihor said unto him: Because I do not teach the foolish traditions of your fathers, and because I do not teach this people to bind themselves down...., to usurp power and authority over them, to keep them in ignorance (accusing the leaders of Lording over the people. He also tries to throw a guilt trip on leaders to pull them away to another faith), that they may not lift up their heads, but be brought down according to thy words.

Korihor's other accusations against his priesthood leaders of his day; 27 And thus ye lead away this people after the foolish traditions of your fathers, and according to your own desires; and ye keep them down, even as it were in bondage, that ye may glut yourselves with the labors of their hands...
28 Yea, they ....do yoke them according to their desires.

The tactics don't change much. The names of people do. Everybody needs support and to stay faithful to the end. The tactics try to upgrade a little bit but follow common patterns. Trust the scriptures. Trust the Spirit when you read them. When you get those thoughts about the brethren and wondering if they have heaps of money or whatever that's Satan trying to get you to be stirred up. It absolutely is. I could show you other scriptures on this too.

(Jacob trying to earn wages from Laban to get/support his family...Satan stirred up Laban his father in law to make him think that Jacob/Israel was stealing from him when he wasn't. Satan tried to get Cain to think he was justified in falling away because Abel was stealing from him. Satan stirred up Lot against Abraham, separating Lot from the priesthood leader of his day over a stealing accusation (grass for the sheep lol...stolen! Oh my!) Kishkumen, Laman, and Lemuel were all led astray thinking the rightful government was stolen from them and therefore it was justified to kill Nephites.

Don't feel bad that we talked about it or that I brought up scriptures. The scriptures point out the truth. And the truth is that wasn't your thought but Satan trying to pull you away like he often does to lots of people.

Now also isn't interesting that the Lord thought to be put the verses in the Book of Mormon that we'd need to combat these adversaries' tools? And that everything fits?

I have also learned from my own life and others, and also priesthood leaders lives' watching them that Satan especially really tries really hard to persecute and target priesthood leaders.

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kittycat51
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Re: Does Deseret Book support Priestcraft?

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marc wrote: December 21st, 2017, 9:14 am If Deseret book promotes priestcraft, it equally promotes idolatry. Besides, the books are not what they used to be. With very few exceptions like the Joseph Smith Papers, it's mostly info-tainment fluff. The idolatry comes with all the outrageously overpriced statues and figurines and ornaments and paintings and trinkets.
Dang and I just bought one of those figurine sets from there just the other day. It's called the nativity. You know when I look at it I am reminded of the reason for the season and Him whose birth we are celebrating.

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SempiternalHarbinger
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Re: Does Deseret Book support Priestcraft?

Post by SempiternalHarbinger »

kittycat51 wrote: December 21st, 2017, 9:40 am
marc wrote: December 21st, 2017, 9:14 am If Deseret book promotes priestcraft, it equally promotes idolatry. Besides, the books are not what they used to be. With very few exceptions like the Joseph Smith Papers, it's mostly info-tainment fluff. The idolatry comes with all the outrageously overpriced statues and figurines and ornaments and paintings and trinkets.
Dang and I just bought one of those figurine sets from there just the other day. It's called the nativity. You know when I look at it I am reminded of the reason for the season and Him whose birth we are celebrating.
Let me guess, made in China.?

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kittycat51
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Re: Does Deseret Book support Priestcraft?

Post by kittycat51 »

SempiternalHarbinger wrote: December 21st, 2017, 9:43 am
kittycat51 wrote: December 21st, 2017, 9:40 am
marc wrote: December 21st, 2017, 9:14 am If Deseret book promotes priestcraft, it equally promotes idolatry. Besides, the books are not what they used to be. With very few exceptions like the Joseph Smith Papers, it's mostly info-tainment fluff. The idolatry comes with all the outrageously overpriced statues and figurines and ornaments and paintings and trinkets.
Dang and I just bought one of those figurine sets from there just the other day. It's called the nativity. You know when I look at it I am reminded of the reason for the season and Him whose birth we are celebrating.
Let me guess, made in China.?
Yes :lol: :lol: :lol:

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marc
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Re: Does Deseret Book support Priestcraft?

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You can save up to 70% right now on Christus figures, which are enjoyed in 80,000 homes!!!
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marc
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Re: Does Deseret Book support Priestcraft?

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32...for they will sell me for silver and for gold, and for that which moth doth corrupt and which thieves can break through and steal. And in that day will I visit them, even in turning their works upon their own heads.

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LdsMarco
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Re: Does Deseret Book support Priestcraft?

Post by LdsMarco »

CelestialAngel wrote: December 20th, 2017, 10:04 pm Deseret Book sells books from the leaders and the newest Dieter F Uchtdorf book has me concerned. It's a 18 dollar book about all his conference stories about airplanes. Can't you just watch or read his conference talks? Why were they compiled into a book to make a profit off of? I question all Apostles and members of the First Presidency who write books that make a profit.
From what I gathered in this post is that Pres Uchtdorf is sharing his STORIES and EXPERIENCES about airplanes. I am sure he shares a few spiritual insights on that book... but I'm going to have to disagree to it being priestcraft, due to the fact that he's not preaching the gospel to get gain. Just because he's sharing spiritual insights (even if there's scriptural references), it doesn't mean he's out to get gain.

It is my belief that priestcraft has a lot more to do with trying to get popular and rich by using God's word in vain. Pres Uchtdorf is not doing that.

Let me ask you a question. Have you ever bought something from deseret book or other places? If so, does that make you a supporter of priestcraft?

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------


When the prophets use the word “priestcraft,” how many can determine when a particular act falls within the correct definition of the term? Apparently the Lord wanted the readers of the Book of Mormon to be able to recognize the sin when they saw it because He had his prophet Nephi define it by stating both what it covered and what it did not cover.


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Re: Does Deseret Book support Priestcraft?

Post by Fiannan »

marc wrote: December 21st, 2017, 9:14 am If Deseret book promotes priestcraft, it equally promotes idolatry. Besides, the books are not what they used to be. With very few exceptions like the Joseph Smith Papers, it's mostly info-tainment fluff. The idolatry comes with all the outrageously overpriced statues and figurines and ornaments and paintings and trinkets.
Why I never throw old LDS books away. Anything before 1990 tends to be far more intelligent in content.

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Re: Does Deseret Book support Priestcraft?

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CelestialAngel wrote: December 20th, 2017, 10:04 pm Deseret Book sells books from the leaders and the newest Dieter F Uchtdorf book has me concerned. It's a 18 dollar book about all his conference stories about airplanes. Can't you just watch or read his conference talks? Why were they compiled into a book to make a profit off of? I question all Apostles and members of the First Presidency who write books that make a profit.
One of my favorite books is Pres. Eyring's "To Draw Closer to God". Life changing stuff. I even bought the audiobook, with him narrating it. A few years later I figured out that A) they were all BYU devotional talks mingled with Conference talks, all available for free. B) You could even get the audio of the talks as they were originally delivered, also free, from BYU's repository and from the LDS Gospel app.

Doesn't change the fact that I love the book. But it makes you wonder why they need to make a profit off of essentially just church talks. I haven't made the same mistake with my Hugh Nibley collection. He intended them to be free, and most of them are - at BYU's Maxwell Institute. Or I can pay Deseret Book $50 per book to read the same material. :x

https://deseretbook.com/p/collected-wor ... -hardcover

Heck, they even charge you $25 just for the ebook. I got those for free! Nibley never wanted to profit off of his scholarship.

Freely have ye received; freely give.
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Alaris
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Re: Does Deseret Book support Priestcraft?

Post by Alaris »

Desert Book has always rubbed me wrong with their egregious prices. Perhaps their costs are egregious and the brethren don't profit. Whatever the case may be when I pray about it, I certainly don't feel like the brethren are engaged in any sort of wrongdoing.

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marc
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Re: Does Deseret Book support Priestcraft?

Post by marc »

Fiannan wrote: December 21st, 2017, 10:25 am
marc wrote: December 21st, 2017, 9:14 am If Deseret book promotes priestcraft, it equally promotes idolatry. Besides, the books are not what they used to be. With very few exceptions like the Joseph Smith Papers, it's mostly info-tainment fluff. The idolatry comes with all the outrageously overpriced statues and figurines and ornaments and paintings and trinkets.
Why I never throw old LDS books away. Anything before 1990 tends to be far more intelligent in content.
Much of my library contains hardcover books from decades past, which I've found at yard sales and the DI here in Utah. There are some books, which just cannot be found, but can be purchased in Kindle format, etc. like "The Words of Joseph Smith" and out of print books like "Church History and Modern Revelation" by Joseph Fielding Smith. I actually had Ehat's "The Words of Joseph Smith" printed and bound so I could include in my physical library. In my brutally honest observation, most of today's publications are little more than watered down gruel.

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Re: Does Deseret Book support Priestcraft?

Post by drtanner »

Also important to remember that Deseret Book is not the Church. All books by general authorities state:

"This work is not an official publication of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. The views expressed herein are the responsibility of the author and do not necessarily represent the position of the Church or of Deseret Book."

You are paying for the service of aggregating someones opinion or binding and packaging material (much of which is free online) in a book CD, DVD, or magazine, if that is your prefered medium to read. These authors do not claim to administering ordinance through their books, voice authoritative doctrine for Christ, or use keys (which is the church) in any capacity. As far as the price is concerned, well that is precipitated by the law of demand and supply and would probably go down if people would stop buying it for that amount as there seems to be no shortage of books.

It is interesting that so many will claim priestcraft of the brethren but will not hold people like Avraham Gileadi (a member of the church) to the same definition. If this is your definition of priestcraft for one, isn't it is a priest craft for all.... but maybe not for that guy because I like what he says.

All this being said, have we not all been guilty of setting ourself up for a light instead of giving the glory to him who it rightfully belongs? Do we bask in the thanks our posts get, inhale the compliments for a lesson or talk, or think about how righteous or wise our words may make us appear. This is the area I think a guilty conviction may take place for any author. If we are honest are we not alll guilty to some degree? Are we all not just selfish, prideful, stubborn priests crafting for some man made glory? Until our motive becomes pure and we are full of his love we need Christ and are forever fallen and lost without him.
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oneClimbs
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Re: Does Deseret Book support Priestcraft?

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I'm careful to separate art from idols, the stark contrast being the intent. Do you possess said art as an instrument of worship or as a piece of creative art that tells a story or illustrates a principle? Jesus used fictional mental imagery in his sermons and teachings, he primarily taught with them. Jesus was also a carpenter so I'm sure he appreciated the act of creating things with your hands and craftsmanship. I've been involved with art my whole life and I appreciate it as a creative outlet. Never once have I "worshipped" anything I have made as my god. This is idolatry when you create something specifically for the purpose of worship.

Personally, I don't like statues of God or Jesus. Inlaws gave us one for Christmas (Christus statue) and it's on a shelf and that's fine. Nobody I know of in our family bows down to it; just a piece of art. I like paintings but I don't like the ones where someone tried to paint the perfect portrait of what they think Jesus looked like in mortality or resurrected. Where they have a ton of fine detail and such. I prefer paintings where less emphasis is on his face and moreso on his actions and the principle that is being taught. I think that kind of art can be inspiring, but that isn't idolatry.

Graven images specifically refer to things created as objects of worship and have nothing to do with art. Otherwise, you could not create anything at all that resembled anything on earth or in heaven. If you bake bread in a circle, well that looks like the sun, so that's a graven image. Come on. The ark of the covenant had golden-winged angels on it. The 12 brazen oxen, the angels embroidered into the veil, the pomegranates, etc. Those are physical representations of doctrinal themes divinely mandated in a space of worship but they are not the objects of worship.

I don't think there is anything in Deseret Book that is inherently idolatrous or priestcrafty. Could someone worship a writer or buy a statue of Joseph Smith and build a shrine? Sure. But you could do the same thing with some wood you carve in your backyard, or a stone you find that looks like a face. DB sells all kinds of stuff, much of it I would never buy, but I've been there and have purchased some good books and some things that I think are cool. Yes, a lot of it is overpriced but you don't NEED any of it, nothing is ESSENTIAL. So...don't buy it, don't go there but recognize that many people do find things of value there that they like. Don't just hate on DB because you don't happen to like anything there.

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oneClimbs
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Re: Does Deseret Book support Priestcraft?

Post by oneClimbs »

drtanner wrote: December 21st, 2017, 1:20 pm Also important to remember that Deseret Book is not the Church. All books by general authorities state:

"This work is not an official publication of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. The views expressed herein are the responsibility of the author and do not necessarily represent the position of the Church or of Deseret Book."

You are paying for the service of aggregating someones opinion or binding and packaging material (much of which is free online) in a book CD, DVD, or magazine, if that is your prefered medium to read. These authors do not claim to administering ordinance through their books, voice authoritative doctrine for Christ, or use keys (which is the church) in any capacity. As far as the price is concerned, well that is precipitated by the law of demand and supply and would probably go down if people would stop buying it for that amount as there seems to be no shortage of books.

It is interesting that so many will claim priestcraft of the brethren but will not hold people like Avraham Gileadi (a member of the church) to the same definition. If this is your definition of priestcraft for one, isn't it is a priest craft for all.... but maybe not for that guy because I like what he says.

All this being said, have we not all been guilty of setting ourself up for a light instead of giving the glory to him who it rightfully belongs? Do we bask in the thanks our posts get, inhale the compliments for a lesson or talk, or think about how righteous or wise our words may make us appear. This is the area I think a guilty conviction may take place for any author. If we are honest we are all not guilty to some degree? Are we all not just selfish, prideful, stubborn priests crafting for some man made glory? Until our motive becomes pure and we are full of his love we need Christ and are forever fallen and lost without him.
Absolutely right. You don't have to make a single cent to be guilty of priestcraft. Yeah, how many go onto social media or even here in this forum and desire to set themselves as a light to others? Sure, this a place to discuss things and hash out ideas and that's what I love about a forum like this, but we should check ourselves and see how often our intention has not been to glorify God but to be perceived as the wisest in the room. Do we try to put down others to lift ourselves or are we genuinely trying to contribute ideas to a discussion and consider the feelings of other people when we make our comments? I'm sure that I could do a lot better myself.

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Re: Does Deseret Book support Priestcraft?

Post by sandman45 »

CelestialAngel wrote: December 20th, 2017, 10:04 pm Deseret Book sells books from the leaders and the newest Dieter F Uchtdorf book has me concerned. It's a 18 dollar book about all his conference stories about airplanes. Can't you just watch or read his conference talks? Why were they compiled into a book to make a profit off of? I question all Apostles and members of the First Presidency who write books that make a profit.
I say.... yes

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sandman45
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Re: Does Deseret Book support Priestcraft?

Post by sandman45 »

alaris wrote: December 21st, 2017, 10:36 am Desert Book has always rubbed me wrong with their egregious prices. Perhaps their costs are egregious and the brethren don't profit. Whatever the case may be when I pray about it, I certainly don't feel like the brethren are engaged in any sort of wrongdoing.
LOL the brethren don't profit? then who is profiting?

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Alaris
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Re: Does Deseret Book support Priestcraft?

Post by Alaris »

sandman45 wrote: December 21st, 2017, 2:36 pm
alaris wrote: December 21st, 2017, 10:36 am Desert Book has always rubbed me wrong with their egregious prices. Perhaps their costs are egregious and the brethren don't profit. Whatever the case may be when I pray about it, I certainly don't feel like the brethren are engaged in any sort of wrongdoing.
LOL the brethren don't profit? then who is profiting?
My only point is that without looking at Deseret Books ...books, we can't see what if anything the brethren are taking home. I realize that DB would have to be grossly mismanaged at those prices w/o generating profit - still. I don't feel the brethren are in the wrong here.

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Re: Does Deseret Book support Priestcraft?

Post by Michelle »

I was disappointed when they combined Deseret Book and the Distribution Center. It may make sense financially, but members were already confused about what was official and what was not. It always drives me nuts when people quote books they got at DB as if they are doctrine. (DB sold Twilight until they wised up. Lots of junk at DB.)

Having said that. I do appreciate being able to buy hard copies of books by the prophets for a couple of reasons. 1. My patriarchal blessing tells me to read the books written by the prophets ancient and modern. 2. I prefer hard copies to digital copies. 3. There is no obligation to buy these books, as many have said all this info is available for free in a variety of formats from the church. 4. They really aren't going to win with people. People complain about the leadership receiving a living stipend and also then complain about them "earning" money buy selling books.

I come back to what I often say: Agency. If you don't like it, don't buy it.

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sandman45
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Re: Does Deseret Book support Priestcraft?

Post by sandman45 »

alaris wrote: December 21st, 2017, 3:02 pm
sandman45 wrote: December 21st, 2017, 2:36 pm
alaris wrote: December 21st, 2017, 10:36 am Desert Book has always rubbed me wrong with their egregious prices. Perhaps their costs are egregious and the brethren don't profit. Whatever the case may be when I pray about it, I certainly don't feel like the brethren are engaged in any sort of wrongdoing.
LOL the brethren don't profit? then who is profiting?
My only point is that without looking at Deseret Books ...books, we can't see what if anything the brethren are taking home. I realize that DB would have to be grossly mismanaged at those prices w/o generating profit - still. I don't feel the brethren are in the wrong here.
Is there a report somewhere that shows us who is profiting
Etc? Are there some brethren who do not write books? Is this a mandate for the brethren to write books to sell in DB?

Sorry lots of questions would be great if someone has some inside knowledge about all this

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