UK to ban depictions of traditional mothers in ads.

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Fiannan
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UK to ban depictions of traditional mothers in ads.

Post by Fiannan »

Nanette Newman, an actress who appeared in 1980s Fairy Liquid commercials, told the Daily Mail the ban is “ridiculously over the top”.

“What a bizarre world we live in where the adverts I starred in might today be considered harmful, yet it’s considered perfectly acceptable for women to be shown on mainstream TV having sex,” she told the Mail.

While campaigns to change the view of society presented in advertisements is intended to increase equality, it may be having the effect of skewing representations in a different way. Breitbart London reported in August a major survey of major advertising companies in Britain which found that businesses are over-representing ethnic minorities and homosexual in their marketing in order to ward off accusations of bigotry.
http://www.breitbart.com/london/2017/12 ... ar-gender/

Maybe the wrong side won the Cold War after all. At least the Soviets depicted women as mothers.

Image

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David13
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Re: UK to ban depictions of traditional mothers in ads.

Post by David13 »

Well, the Brits certainly didn't win the cold war.
I think it's even doubtful that America won the cold war.
I think the truth is that communism lost the cold war, as was naturally, logically and inevitably was to be expected.
dc

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Robin Hood
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Re: UK to ban depictions of traditional mothers in ads.

Post by Robin Hood »

David13 wrote: December 16th, 2017, 12:52 pm Well, the Brits certainly didn't win the cold war.
I think it's even doubtful that America won the cold war.
I think the truth is that communism lost the cold war, as was naturally, logically and inevitably was to be expected.
dc
Do you really think the Cold War was a thing?

Personally, I think it was show put on by the elites to scare everyone into conformity.

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David13
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Re: UK to ban depictions of traditional mothers in ads.

Post by David13 »

Robin Hood wrote: December 16th, 2017, 3:13 pm
David13 wrote: December 16th, 2017, 12:52 pm Well, the Brits certainly didn't win the cold war.
I think it's even doubtful that America won the cold war.
I think the truth is that communism lost the cold war, as was naturally, logically and inevitably was to be expected.
dc
Do you really think the Cold War was a thing?

Personally, I think it was show put on by the elites to scare everyone into conformity.
Well, yes, it unquestionably was a thing. It was east v west, spy v spy, if you remember those cartoons.
It was communism v capitalism. Free enterprise v planned economy. Freedom v tyranny.
Of course, we don't have pure capitalism, and they didn't have pure communism. But there was clearly a difference in the systems, and in the resultant standard of living in the two countries.

I don't care how bad you may have had it there in England where the sun seldom shines but it was nirvana compared to soviet russia. So bleak it isn't rightly spelled with capital letters.

Was it easier to unite against a common enemy?

No, I don't think anyone ever did.
There were all those nuts on our side who thought, well, the soviet lifestyle is better? How there could be such insanity, I don't understand, but it's always been here. Today that mental disease has just infected far more of our population than in cold war years.
dc

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Robin Hood
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Re: UK to ban depictions of traditional mothers in ads.

Post by Robin Hood »

David13 wrote: December 16th, 2017, 3:20 pm
Robin Hood wrote: December 16th, 2017, 3:13 pm
David13 wrote: December 16th, 2017, 12:52 pm Well, the Brits certainly didn't win the cold war.
I think it's even doubtful that America won the cold war.
I think the truth is that communism lost the cold war, as was naturally, logically and inevitably was to be expected.
dc
Do you really think the Cold War was a thing?

Personally, I think it was show put on by the elites to scare everyone into conformity.
Well, yes, it unquestionably was a thing. It was east v west, spy v spy, if you remember those cartoons.
It was communism v capitalism. Free enterprise v planned economy. Freedom v tyranny.
Of course, we don't have pure capitalism, and they didn't have pure communism. But there was clearly a difference in the systems, and in the resultant standard of living in the two countries.

I don't care how bad you may have had it there in England where the sun seldom shines but it was nirvana compared to soviet russia. So bleak it isn't rightly spelled with capital letters.

Was it easier to unite against a common enemy?

No, I don't think anyone ever did.
There were all those nuts on our side who thought, well, the soviet lifestyle is better? How there could be such insanity, I don't understand, but it's always been here. Today that mental disease has just infected far more of our population than in cold war years.
dc
I know what you're saying.
But I was working for the British forces in Germany at that time. Went across into East Berlin a few times, witnessed all of the military protocol between the British and US forces, and the Soviets etc. It occured to me at the time that the whole thing was theatre.

The east Germans and the Russians were no different to the west Germans and the British/Americans. The differences were more imagined than real.

Looking back at the way the Cold War ended, I am convinced the whole thing was a show manipulated by the elite. They were pulling the strings to create the illusion of a conflict because they wanted both sides to pay a fortune to arm themselves to the teeth etc.
Divide and rule.

When that had run it's course they pulled some different strings and, hey presto, the conflict was over, or rather transferred elsewhere.

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David13
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Re: UK to ban depictions of traditional mothers in ads.

Post by David13 »

Robin Hood wrote: December 16th, 2017, 5:05 pm
David13 wrote: December 16th, 2017, 3:20 pm
Robin Hood wrote: December 16th, 2017, 3:13 pm
David13 wrote: December 16th, 2017, 12:52 pm Well, the Brits certainly didn't win the cold war.
I think it's even doubtful that America won the cold war.
I think the truth is that communism lost the cold war, as was naturally, logically and inevitably was to be expected.
dc
Do you really think the Cold War was a thing?

Personally, I think it was show put on by the elites to scare everyone into conformity.
Well, yes, it unquestionably was a thing. It was east v west, spy v spy, if you remember those cartoons.
It was communism v capitalism. Free enterprise v planned economy. Freedom v tyranny.
Of course, we don't have pure capitalism, and they didn't have pure communism. But there was clearly a difference in the systems, and in the resultant standard of living in the two countries.

I don't care how bad you may have had it there in England where the sun seldom shines but it was nirvana compared to soviet russia. So bleak it isn't rightly spelled with capital letters.

Was it easier to unite against a common enemy?

No, I don't think anyone ever did.
There were all those nuts on our side who thought, well, the soviet lifestyle is better? How there could be such insanity, I don't understand, but it's always been here. Today that mental disease has just infected far more of our population than in cold war years.
dc
I know what you're saying.
But I was working for the British forces in Germany at that time. Went across into East Berlin a few times, witnessed all of the military protocol between the British and US forces, and the Soviets etc. It occured to me at the time that the whole thing was theatre.

The east Germans and the Russians were no different to the west Germans and the British/Americans. The differences were more imagined than real.

Looking back at the way the Cold War ended, I am convinced the whole thing was a show manipulated by the elite. They were pulling the strings to create the illusion of a conflict because they wanted both sides to pay a fortune to arm themselves to the teeth etc.
Divide and rule.

When that had run it's course they pulled some different strings and, hey presto, the conflict was over, or rather transferred elsewhere.

So you are saying the military life was similar.

Yes, ok. But what about civilian life? Do you see any difference?

For instance, why was the wall necessary? Were Americans desperately trying, at the threat of their life, to get into East Germany? Were the West Germans?

You know, you are definitely missing something here.
dc

Fiannan
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Re: UK to ban depictions of traditional mothers in ads.

Post by Fiannan »

I don't care how bad you may have had it there in England where the sun seldom shines but it was nirvana compared to soviet russia.
Not to worry, the Godless elite of Britain will make sure that what gets created soon will make "1984" seem like a paradise.

Oh, and remember, "1984" was set in Britain.

gardener4life
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Re: UK to ban depictions of traditional mothers in ads.

Post by gardener4life »

Robin Hood wrote: December 16th, 2017, 3:13 pm
David13 wrote: December 16th, 2017, 12:52 pm Well, the Brits certainly didn't win the cold war.
I think it's even doubtful that America won the cold war.
I think the truth is that communism lost the cold war, as was naturally, logically and inevitably was to be expected.
dc
Do you really think the Cold War was a thing?

Personally, I think it was show put on by the elites to scare everyone into conformity.

I think you made a pretty good point. Your question is showing our countries are slipping.

But communism and totalitarian, tyrant regimes really do exist. If you want proof look at the victims of those regimes.

The threat of tyrants is real. I think it helps to be more clear in our imagery if we identify things carefully. Communism represents tyrants. They don't 'share' resources like its sold to the people, yet tyrants at the top get to live like kings. People have talked about this when showing how DPRK has pedophile rings for Kim Jong Un and others. There are still good and great spiritual people in those lands where tyrants still rule and that's what's confusing people on the issue. But if we lived like them there'd be no church, no freedom of religion, and no allowances to think what we want or believe in. And while people see there's good people here they see our countries sliding down hill.

King Noah was a tyrant. Look at what his people had happen to them. A tyrant run system won't work, be it whichever government. The countries resources get burned on the lusts of the elites. (OK goodness me, we're seeing that come out with the Hollywood schemes now.)

Why do we know communism was so bad? There was no freedom of religion. No temples, no prophets, and no scriptures. (Someone is going to see yeah but Russia has that now. Well...look how long it took to get that in there? Literally you could describe it as an eon of time just to get religion to be accepted and its still a battle for them to live it. And China, DPRK, and the muslim countries don't accept religion there.)

(I bet your wondering why I worded it that way huh? Its because Islam isn't a religion. It's a form of warlord-ism that oppresses and prevents true religion per Bill Warner. See 'Why we are afraid'. Also you can identify regimes and anti-Christ lands by their killing and stoning of prophets or persecution of religion. Christianity has literally been killed and burned out of Iraq recently. There are articles about this and its a tragedy. They recently said that after trying to keep Christianity alive in Iraq with horrible oppression for over a thousand years that they'd been killed and terrorized so badly in the last most recent years following the gulf wars that they would never be able to recover there.)

Now if you want to go further than that, one of the problems you run into is that any government not run by Jesus Christ is going to have big problems. But in the end a system where people could be free to practice religion and follow God is better than no religion. And all real regimes don't allow freedom of thought or religion.

Now there are going to be struggles and are struggles to corrupt every government and to push them towards tyrants ruling too. That's why people can't just let things go and assume that someone else will fight for their freedom of religion, their rights to property, family, and in memory of their freedoms, religion, and wives and children (Like Captain Moroni's wording).

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sandman45
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Re: UK to ban depictions of traditional mothers in ads.

Post by sandman45 »

Fiannan wrote: December 16th, 2017, 12:50 pm
Nanette Newman, an actress who appeared in 1980s Fairy Liquid commercials, told the Daily Mail the ban is “ridiculously over the top”.

“What a bizarre world we live in where the adverts I starred in might today be considered harmful, yet it’s considered perfectly acceptable for women to be shown on mainstream TV having sex,” she told the Mail.

While campaigns to change the view of society presented in advertisements is intended to increase equality, it may be having the effect of skewing representations in a different way. Breitbart London reported in August a major survey of major advertising companies in Britain which found that businesses are over-representing ethnic minorities and homosexual in their marketing in order to ward off accusations of bigotry.
http://www.breitbart.com/london/2017/12 ... ar-gender/

Maybe the wrong side won the Cold War after all. At least the Soviets depicted women as mothers.

Image
You mean the wrong side won ww2. Germany had vastly superior morales and supported the family unit and praised women for being mothers etc.
they also fought against the world international bankers / central banks
Remember the winners write history and it’s not all true what they teach about Germany in schools and how Hollywood portrays it.

JohnnyL
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Posts: 9830

Re: UK to ban depictions of traditional mothers in ads.

Post by JohnnyL »

Robin Hood wrote: December 16th, 2017, 5:05 pm
David13 wrote: December 16th, 2017, 3:20 pm
Robin Hood wrote: December 16th, 2017, 3:13 pm
David13 wrote: December 16th, 2017, 12:52 pm Well, the Brits certainly didn't win the cold war.
I think it's even doubtful that America won the cold war.
I think the truth is that communism lost the cold war, as was naturally, logically and inevitably was to be expected.
dc
Do you really think the Cold War was a thing?

Personally, I think it was show put on by the elites to scare everyone into conformity.
Well, yes, it unquestionably was a thing. It was east v west, spy v spy, if you remember those cartoons.
It was communism v capitalism. Free enterprise v planned economy. Freedom v tyranny.
Of course, we don't have pure capitalism, and they didn't have pure communism. But there was clearly a difference in the systems, and in the resultant standard of living in the two countries.

I don't care how bad you may have had it there in England where the sun seldom shines but it was nirvana compared to soviet russia. So bleak it isn't rightly spelled with capital letters.

Was it easier to unite against a common enemy?

No, I don't think anyone ever did.
There were all those nuts on our side who thought, well, the soviet lifestyle is better? How there could be such insanity, I don't understand, but it's always been here. Today that mental disease has just infected far more of our population than in cold war years.
dc
I know what you're saying.
But I was working for the British forces in Germany at that time. Went across into East Berlin a few times, witnessed all of the military protocol between the British and US forces, and the Soviets etc. It occured to me at the time that the whole thing was theatre.

The east Germans and the Russians were no different to the west Germans and the British/Americans. The differences were more imagined than real.

Looking back at the way the Cold War ended, I am convinced the whole thing was a show manipulated by the elite. They were pulling the strings to create the illusion of a conflict because they wanted both sides to pay a fortune to arm themselves to the teeth etc.
Divide and rule.

When that had run it's course they pulled some different strings and, hey presto, the conflict was over, or rather transferred elsewhere.
Yes, but it was also the "great experiment" to see how it would work. Or better yet, for modern GR to learn from it. Also, to hold it up as a light to the world (false though it may be).

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Robin Hood
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Re: UK to ban depictions of traditional mothers in ads.

Post by Robin Hood »

Ultimately the only difference between the communist world and the capitalist world was the method of control.
One was overt, the other covert.
But it is still control.

The advantage the eastern europeans had over us was that they absolutely knew they were being controlled, and they knew who was responsible for it.

On the other hand, we (well some of us at least) still believe we have "freedom" and "democracy" etc. So the delusion is perpetuated.

It is impossible to overtly control and dominate a people for very long. They will eventually rise up and throw off their oppressors. We have seen examples of this throughout history, including some very recent incidents.
But covert control and domination is far more difficult for the masses to detect. They sense that something is wrong but are unaware of what it is. They swallow the lie that their vote can change things, and plod on through lives of servitude and misery, believing that their problems are of their own making. They become sheeple, and worse, they even police those who recognise the problem and shame or scorn them back into line.
1984 is here and has been for a long time.

Ezra
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Re: UK to ban depictions of traditional mothers in ads.

Post by Ezra »

Robin Hood wrote: December 17th, 2017, 2:46 pm Ultimately the only difference between the communist world and the capitalist world was the method of control.
One was overt, the other covert.
But it is still control.

The advantage the eastern europeans had over us was that they absolutely knew they were being controlled, and they knew who was responsible for it.

On the other hand, we (well some of us at least) still believe we have "freedom" and "democracy" etc. So the delusion is perpetuated.

It is impossible to overtly control and dominate a people for very long. They will eventually rise up and throw off their oppressors. We have seen examples of this throughout history, including some very recent incidents.
But covert control and domination is far more difficult for the masses to detect. They sense that something is wrong but are unaware of what it is. They swallow the lie that their vote can change things, and plod on through lives of servitude and misery, believing that their problems are of their own making. They become sheeple, and worse, they even police those who recognise the problem and shame or scorn them back into line.
1984 is here and has been for a long time.
The control you speak of isn’t Part Of a true capitalist system.
Communists and socialist systems are based on control.
Democratic systems start with freedoms.

Definition of capitalism

: an economic system characterized by private or corporate ownership of capital goods, by investments that are determined by private decision, and by prices, production, and the distribution of goods that are determined mainly by competition in a free market

Private or corporate entities in that system have no way to create monopolies because there is nothing to stop other from competing.

The only power they have is to make a product or service that someone else wants to buy and so they voluntarily do so.

Democracy’s start with true capitalism.

The more people vote to control the market with regulations and controls the more the nation move away from capitalism to socialism or communism which are essentially the same the amount of control only differs slightly.

Definition of socialism

1 : any of various economic and political theories advocating collective or governmental ownership and administration of the means of production and distribution of goods.


Monopoly’s can only fourm when government controls are in place for them to do so. Manipulating or regulation market controls are necessary for a monopoly to forum.

The big bad scary corporations that are so bad mouthed by so many are not in place from capitalism. Even though that’s the misplaced blame. They are in place from socialism.

If they are in place because they produce a superior product at a lower price then there competitors then awesome. We get a very good product as a cheap price that we choose to buy. We want it we like it we buy it. no one can come close to the same quality and price. Win win. Capitalism is like consensual sex. Socialism is rape.
Government regulations or market controls create a monopoly who then charged us what they want because they can at a price and quality that we will choke down somewhat willingly due to no other option. Government regulations make it so difficult that others are unwilling to jump through hoops to become competitors. So free market competition dose not happen. It’s not A truly consensual market.
It’s a bubble that can pop. Which usually ends up with government propping up those companies with the excuse of “they are too big to fail” bs. And the people continue to get shafted.

The USA is not a capitalist market. Has not been for a long time. There are still some aspects of capitalism. It’s hasn’t been replace with full blown socialism yet but it’s not capitalism.

The complaints people have of our current system are blamed on capitalism by our less then bias media who mislead the people. But anyone who just looks at the definitions and thinks for a moment can see the real cause of our problems. Government controls over the markets creating monopolies. Socialism.

Ezra
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Re: UK to ban depictions of traditional mothers in ads.

Post by Ezra »

I might add that generally people think to rein in the supposed out of control corruption and power the corporation have we need more government controls.

They don’t realize that if the government didn’t have the power to create the monopoly’s . the corporation wouldn’t be interested in donating and paying for the curruption of government officials to continue the regulations or market controls that support the monopolies.

If people are in a position to bribe officials for more power more monopolies they are going to do that. If the government doesn’t have the power to grant powers to create monopolies then there is no issue. They will do the only thing they can do. Create a product or service at a price in which people want to buy.

That is their only power if the governments power is limited.

That’s why democracy’s fail. It’s why constitutional republics fail slowly.

America did well for a long time. Now the government has enlarged its control created powers it’s not supposed to have. Created monopolies. Which just added fuel to the fire Of tyrannical government controls.

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David13
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Re: UK to ban depictions of traditional mothers in ads.

Post by David13 »

Robin Hood wrote: December 17th, 2017, 2:46 pm Ultimately the only difference between the communist world and the capitalist world was the method of control.
One was overt, the other covert.
But it is still control.

The advantage the eastern europeans had over us was that they absolutely knew they were being controlled, and they knew who was responsible for it.

On the other hand, we (well some of us at least) still believe we have "freedom" and "democracy" etc. So the delusion is perpetuated.

It is impossible to overtly control and dominate a people for very long. They will eventually rise up and throw off their oppressors. We have seen examples of this throughout history, including some very recent incidents.
But covert control and domination is far more difficult for the masses to detect. They sense that something is wrong but are unaware of what it is. They swallow the lie that their vote can change things, and plod on through lives of servitude and misery, believing that their problems are of their own making. They become sheeple, and worse, they even police those who recognise the problem and shame or scorn them back into line.
1984 is here and has been for a long time.

So you are saying that lifestyle of the average Russian and the average American were about the same? Are you unaware of the disparity in the income and available goods for each?

https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/lo ... 0307031048

http://thelibertariancatholic.com/socia ... p-for-you/

JohnnyL
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Posts: 9830

Re: UK to ban depictions of traditional mothers in ads.

Post by JohnnyL »

sandman45 wrote: December 17th, 2017, 11:15 am
Fiannan wrote: December 16th, 2017, 12:50 pm
Nanette Newman, an actress who appeared in 1980s Fairy Liquid commercials, told the Daily Mail the ban is “ridiculously over the top”.

“What a bizarre world we live in where the adverts I starred in might today be considered harmful, yet it’s considered perfectly acceptable for women to be shown on mainstream TV having sex,” she told the Mail.

While campaigns to change the view of society presented in advertisements is intended to increase equality, it may be having the effect of skewing representations in a different way. Breitbart London reported in August a major survey of major advertising companies in Britain which found that businesses are over-representing ethnic minorities and homosexual in their marketing in order to ward off accusations of bigotry.
http://www.breitbart.com/london/2017/12 ... ar-gender/

Maybe the wrong side won the Cold War after all. At least the Soviets depicted women as mothers.

Image
You mean the wrong side won ww2. Germany had vastly superior morales and supported the family unit and praised women for being mothers etc.
they also fought against the world international bankers / central banks
Remember the winners write history and it’s not all true what they teach about Germany in schools and how Hollywood portrays it.
One of the biggest lies in history. :twisted:

The cold war also had one big loser: <drum roll> Germany.

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Robin Hood
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Re: UK to ban depictions of traditional mothers in ads.

Post by Robin Hood »

David13 wrote: December 17th, 2017, 4:13 pm
Robin Hood wrote: December 17th, 2017, 2:46 pm Ultimately the only difference between the communist world and the capitalist world was the method of control.
One was overt, the other covert.
But it is still control.

The advantage the eastern europeans had over us was that they absolutely knew they were being controlled, and they knew who was responsible for it.

On the other hand, we (well some of us at least) still believe we have "freedom" and "democracy" etc. So the delusion is perpetuated.

It is impossible to overtly control and dominate a people for very long. They will eventually rise up and throw off their oppressors. We have seen examples of this throughout history, including some very recent incidents.
But covert control and domination is far more difficult for the masses to detect. They sense that something is wrong but are unaware of what it is. They swallow the lie that their vote can change things, and plod on through lives of servitude and misery, believing that their problems are of their own making. They become sheeple, and worse, they even police those who recognise the problem and shame or scorn them back into line.
1984 is here and has been for a long time.

So you are saying that lifestyle of the average Russian and the average American were about the same? Are you unaware of the disparity in the income and available goods for each?

https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/lo ... 0307031048

http://thelibertariancatholic.com/socia ... p-for-you/
What's that got to do with it?
I thought we were talking about freedom/oppression etc.
Are you saying it's ok to live under oppression so long as you're richer (financially) than other people who live under oppression?

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David13
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Re: UK to ban depictions of traditional mothers in ads.

Post by David13 »

Robin Hood wrote: December 18th, 2017, 4:08 am
David13 wrote: December 17th, 2017, 4:13 pm
Robin Hood wrote: December 17th, 2017, 2:46 pm Ultimately the only difference between the communist world and the capitalist world was the method of control.
One was overt, the other covert.
But it is still control.

The advantage the eastern europeans had over us was that they absolutely knew they were being controlled, and they knew who was responsible for it.

On the other hand, we (well some of us at least) still believe we have "freedom" and "democracy" etc. So the delusion is perpetuated.

It is impossible to overtly control and dominate a people for very long. They will eventually rise up and throw off their oppressors. We have seen examples of this throughout history, including some very recent incidents.
But covert control and domination is far more difficult for the masses to detect. They sense that something is wrong but are unaware of what it is. They swallow the lie that their vote can change things, and plod on through lives of servitude and misery, believing that their problems are of their own making. They become sheeple, and worse, they even police those who recognise the problem and shame or scorn them back into line.
1984 is here and has been for a long time.

So you are saying that lifestyle of the average Russian and the average American were about the same? Are you unaware of the disparity in the income and available goods for each?

https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/lo ... 0307031048

http://thelibertariancatholic.com/socia ... p-for-you/
What's that got to do with it?
I thought we were talking about freedom/oppression etc.
Are you saying it's ok to live under oppression so long as you're richer (financially) than other people who live under oppression?
No. I'm saying that the "oppression" that we live under in the USofA is about 10 times less than that of Britain. And about 10,000 times less than Soviet Russia.

Don't you know about how they lived? And about how we live? I guess not.
dc

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Robin Hood
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Re: UK to ban depictions of traditional mothers in ads.

Post by Robin Hood »

David13 wrote: December 18th, 2017, 9:37 am
Robin Hood wrote: December 18th, 2017, 4:08 am
David13 wrote: December 17th, 2017, 4:13 pm
Robin Hood wrote: December 17th, 2017, 2:46 pm Ultimately the only difference between the communist world and the capitalist world was the method of control.
One was overt, the other covert.
But it is still control.

The advantage the eastern europeans had over us was that they absolutely knew they were being controlled, and they knew who was responsible for it.

On the other hand, we (well some of us at least) still believe we have "freedom" and "democracy" etc. So the delusion is perpetuated.

It is impossible to overtly control and dominate a people for very long. They will eventually rise up and throw off their oppressors. We have seen examples of this throughout history, including some very recent incidents.
But covert control and domination is far more difficult for the masses to detect. They sense that something is wrong but are unaware of what it is. They swallow the lie that their vote can change things, and plod on through lives of servitude and misery, believing that their problems are of their own making. They become sheeple, and worse, they even police those who recognise the problem and shame or scorn them back into line.
1984 is here and has been for a long time.

So you are saying that lifestyle of the average Russian and the average American were about the same? Are you unaware of the disparity in the income and available goods for each?

https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/lo ... 0307031048

http://thelibertariancatholic.com/socia ... p-for-you/
What's that got to do with it?
I thought we were talking about freedom/oppression etc.
Are you saying it's ok to live under oppression so long as you're richer (financially) than other people who live under oppression?
No. I'm saying that the "oppression" that we live under in the USofA is about 10 times less than that of Britain. And about 10,000 times less than Soviet Russia.

Don't you know about how they lived? And about how we live? I guess not.
dc
David, I like much of what you say on most things.
However, with respect, on this issue you clearly don't know what you're talking about.
I have been to the US, I live in the UK, and I have been in eastern Europe when it was under communism. So to answer your question.... yes.

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David13
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Re: UK to ban depictions of traditional mothers in ads.

Post by David13 »

Robin Hood wrote: December 18th, 2017, 11:42 am
David13 wrote: December 18th, 2017, 9:37 am
Robin Hood wrote: December 18th, 2017, 4:08 am
David13 wrote: December 17th, 2017, 4:13 pm


So you are saying that lifestyle of the average Russian and the average American were about the same? Are you unaware of the disparity in the income and available goods for each?

https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/lo ... 0307031048

http://thelibertariancatholic.com/socia ... p-for-you/
What's that got to do with it?
I thought we were talking about freedom/oppression etc.
Are you saying it's ok to live under oppression so long as you're richer (financially) than other people who live under oppression?
No. I'm saying that the "oppression" that we live under in the USofA is about 10 times less than that of Britain. And about 10,000 times less than Soviet Russia.

Don't you know about how they lived? And about how we live? I guess not.
dc
David, I like much of what you say on most things.
However, with respect, on this issue you clearly don't know what you're talking about.
I have been to the US, I live in the UK, and I have been in eastern Europe when it was under communism. So to answer your question.... yes.
And you don't think there is a qualitative difference? Then indeed it is you what don't know what you are seeing, when you see it.
dc

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Robin Hood
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Location: England

Re: UK to ban depictions of traditional mothers in ads.

Post by Robin Hood »

David13 wrote: December 18th, 2017, 7:42 pm
Robin Hood wrote: December 18th, 2017, 11:42 am
David13 wrote: December 18th, 2017, 9:37 am
Robin Hood wrote: December 18th, 2017, 4:08 am

What's that got to do with it?
I thought we were talking about freedom/oppression etc.
Are you saying it's ok to live under oppression so long as you're richer (financially) than other people who live under oppression?
No. I'm saying that the "oppression" that we live under in the USofA is about 10 times less than that of Britain. And about 10,000 times less than Soviet Russia.

Don't you know about how they lived? And about how we live? I guess not.
dc
David, I like much of what you say on most things.
However, with respect, on this issue you clearly don't know what you're talking about.
I have been to the US, I live in the UK, and I have been in eastern Europe when it was under communism. So to answer your question.... yes.
And you don't think there is a qualitative difference? Then indeed it is you what don't know what you are seeing, when you see it.
dc
The differences aren't as great as you believe.
I certainly didn't feel any more free in the US than I do in the UK. I remember being reprimanded for crossing the road and accused of jay walking. Here we are free to cross wherever we like, but appears you can only cross where you're told to! And then I saw the strangest thing.... a check point on a state border. What's all that about?
Eastern Europeans were less wealthy, but that has little to do with oppression and more to do with poor economic decisions and performance. And actually the East Germans were quite well off. They were quite wealthy individually, they just didn't have anything to spend their money on.
When the wall came down West Germany was flooded with East Germans buying their cars.

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David13
Level 34 Illuminated
Posts: 7072
Location: Utah

Re: UK to ban depictions of traditional mothers in ads.

Post by David13 »

Robin Hood wrote: December 18th, 2017, 11:56 pm
David13 wrote: December 18th, 2017, 7:42 pm
Robin Hood wrote: December 18th, 2017, 11:42 am
David13 wrote: December 18th, 2017, 9:37 am

No. I'm saying that the "oppression" that we live under in the USofA is about 10 times less than that of Britain. And about 10,000 times less than Soviet Russia.

Don't you know about how they lived? And about how we live? I guess not.
dc
David, I like much of what you say on most things.
However, with respect, on this issue you clearly don't know what you're talking about.
I have been to the US, I live in the UK, and I have been in eastern Europe when it was under communism. So to answer your question.... yes.
And you don't think there is a qualitative difference? Then indeed it is you what don't know what you are seeing, when you see it.
dc
The differences aren't as great as you believe.
I certainly didn't feel any more free in the US than I do in the UK. I remember being reprimanded for crossing the road and accused of jay walking. Here we are free to cross wherever we like, but appears you can only cross where you're told to! And then I saw the strangest thing.... a check point on a state border. What's all that about?
Eastern Europeans were less wealthy, but that has little to do with oppression and more to do with poor economic decisions and performance. And actually the East Germans were quite well off. They were quite wealthy individually, they just didn't have anything to spend their money on.
When the wall came down West Germany was flooded with East Germans buying their cars.
That's funny.
You see a little snippet of the issue, but not the whole picture.

You mention poor economic decisions and performance. By who? The communist planning committee or whatever they called it? Aha! That leads us to further conclusions, no?

Or it is that you just don't get it?

But then you, I suppose, are British. Those same people who say a policeman should not have a gun. But a policeman should have a gun.
dc

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Robin Hood
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Posts: 13112
Location: England

Re: UK to ban depictions of traditional mothers in ads.

Post by Robin Hood »

David13 wrote: December 19th, 2017, 7:42 am
Robin Hood wrote: December 18th, 2017, 11:56 pm
David13 wrote: December 18th, 2017, 7:42 pm
Robin Hood wrote: December 18th, 2017, 11:42 am

David, I like much of what you say on most things.
However, with respect, on this issue you clearly don't know what you're talking about.
I have been to the US, I live in the UK, and I have been in eastern Europe when it was under communism. So to answer your question.... yes.
And you don't think there is a qualitative difference? Then indeed it is you what don't know what you are seeing, when you see it.
dc
The differences aren't as great as you believe.
I certainly didn't feel any more free in the US than I do in the UK. I remember being reprimanded for crossing the road and accused of jay walking. Here we are free to cross wherever we like, but appears you can only cross where you're told to! And then I saw the strangest thing.... a check point on a state border. What's all that about?
Eastern Europeans were less wealthy, but that has little to do with oppression and more to do with poor economic decisions and performance. And actually the East Germans were quite well off. They were quite wealthy individually, they just didn't have anything to spend their money on.
When the wall came down West Germany was flooded with East Germans buying their cars.
That's funny.
You see a little snippet of the issue, but not the whole picture.

You mention poor economic decisions and performance. By who? The communist planning committee or whatever they called it? Aha! That leads us to further conclusions, no?

Or it is that you just don't get it?

But then you, I suppose, are British. Those same people who say a policeman should not have a gun. But a policeman should have a gun.
dc
David,
A "little snippet" is a lot more insight than you appear to have had.
I think you have to decide what you're talking about; economic performance or freedom/oppression.
You are conflating the two and it is seriously undermining your argument.

Unless of course you are trying to argue that economic growth and freedom are the same beast. If so, you will have to explain China.

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David13
Level 34 Illuminated
Posts: 7072
Location: Utah

Re: UK to ban depictions of traditional mothers in ads.

Post by David13 »

Robin Hood wrote: December 19th, 2017, 8:00 am
David13 wrote: December 19th, 2017, 7:42 am
Robin Hood wrote: December 18th, 2017, 11:56 pm
David13 wrote: December 18th, 2017, 7:42 pm

And you don't think there is a qualitative difference? Then indeed it is you what don't know what you are seeing, when you see it.
dc
The differences aren't as great as you believe.
I certainly didn't feel any more free in the US than I do in the UK. I remember being reprimanded for crossing the road and accused of jay walking. Here we are free to cross wherever we like, but appears you can only cross where you're told to! And then I saw the strangest thing.... a check point on a state border. What's all that about?
Eastern Europeans were less wealthy, but that has little to do with oppression and more to do with poor economic decisions and performance. And actually the East Germans were quite well off. They were quite wealthy individually, they just didn't have anything to spend their money on.
When the wall came down West Germany was flooded with East Germans buying their cars.
That's funny.
You see a little snippet of the issue, but not the whole picture.

You mention poor economic decisions and performance. By who? The communist planning committee or whatever they called it? Aha! That leads us to further conclusions, no?

Or it is that you just don't get it?

But then you, I suppose, are British. Those same people who say a policeman should not have a gun. But a policeman should have a gun.
dc
David,
A "little snippet" is a lot more insight than you appear to have had.
I think you have to decide what you're talking about; economic performance or freedom/oppression.
You are conflating the two and it is seriously undermining your argument.

Unless of course you are trying to argue that economic growth and freedom are the same beast. If so, you will have to explain China.

It's rather simple to explain China.
But it's useless to do so with someone who doesn't understand the relationship between economic prosperity and freedom in the economic section.
And the benefit to human life of freedom (and not absolute freedom to cross the street anywhere) but at least a relative greater freedom in human life, such as the right to self defense, to have children (China), etc.
dc

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David13
Level 34 Illuminated
Posts: 7072
Location: Utah

Re: UK to ban depictions of traditional mothers in ads.

Post by David13 »

Robin Hood wrote: December 19th, 2017, 8:00 am
David13 wrote: December 19th, 2017, 7:42 am
Robin Hood wrote: December 18th, 2017, 11:56 pm
David13 wrote: December 18th, 2017, 7:42 pm

And you don't think there is a qualitative difference? Then indeed it is you what don't know what you are seeing, when you see it.
dc
The differences aren't as great as you believe.
I certainly didn't feel any more free in the US than I do in the UK. I remember being reprimanded for crossing the road and accused of jay walking. Here we are free to cross wherever we like, but appears you can only cross where you're told to! And then I saw the strangest thing.... a check point on a state border. What's all that about?
Eastern Europeans were less wealthy, but that has little to do with oppression and more to do with poor economic decisions and performance. And actually the East Germans were quite well off. They were quite wealthy individually, they just didn't have anything to spend their money on.
When the wall came down West Germany was flooded with East Germans buying their cars.
That's funny.
You see a little snippet of the issue, but not the whole picture.

You mention poor economic decisions and performance. By who? The communist planning committee or whatever they called it? Aha! That leads us to further conclusions, no?

Or it is that you just don't get it?

But then you, I suppose, are British. Those same people who say a policeman should not have a gun. But a policeman should have a gun.
dc
David,
A "little snippet" is a lot more insight than you appear to have had.
I think you have to decide what you're talking about; economic performance or freedom/oppression.
You are conflating the two and it is seriously undermining your argument.

Unless of course you are trying to argue that economic growth and freedom are the same beast. If so, you will have to explain China.
There are even great contrasts from one state to another here in the US.
For instance, California, which I just left.
Toyota North America has been there for years. They have a facility of 10, 20, 30 acres or so, I don't know, covered with buildings. 3000 workers.
They are in the process of moving to Texas. I knew a number of people going with them. They are taking 3000 jobs to Texas.

Why? They state it as high real estate costs.
But it's also the oppressive and stifling political climate; the leech type attitude of government in California; they love to grasp onto business and bleed them dry with taxes and fees and costs and rules and regulations.
Texas probably offered them tax incentives to move. And far less regulation.
Just a far better place to do business.

Now, the California system is far less regulation than the soviet realm. But it's on it's way.

The land that Toyota leaves behind will sit vacant. No other big company will come in to take it. They will go to business friendly states. California will lose a tremendous amount of money over that. There were hundreds who visited that facility daily. Execs coming from Japan, and probably all of North America.

Nisan moved out for the same reasons some years ago. Their huge building sits mostly vacant.

Toyota's property may be changed into high density and expensive housing, townhouse condos or something. Maybe 10,000 or more condos. Wall to wall houses, parking on the first level, then two levels above for living quarters, house in front, house in back, and wall to wall on the sides. You won't be able to see planet earth from your house.

Not quite as bad as those huge, soviet era block apartment buildings. But working hard toward it.

The general idea, RH, is that anything that is done, is done worst by government. And therefore government should do as little as possible. Conceivably governments only do one thing efficiently, and that's win wars. And that they basically do only 50% of the time.

It's simple really. The greater freedom produces the better quality of life all around. The soviet system produced rather rotten products, if any at all, and a great scarcity of them.

Greater freedom produces more. Socialism spreads misery equally to all.

Where I live, you can indeed cross the street anywhere you like. And go into stores that have unbelievable thousands of products, and many different varieties of the same product. That's a freedom that doesn't exist under controlled economies.

Look at Venezuela. Socialism/communism has caused great and untold misery. Just like the soviet system did.
dc

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gclayjr
captain of 1,000
Posts: 2727
Location: Pennsylvania

Re: UK to ban depictions of traditional mothers in ads.

Post by gclayjr »

Robin Hood,
The differences aren't as great as you believe.
I certainly didn't feel any more free in the US than I do in the UK. I remember being reprimanded for crossing the road and accused of jay walking. Here we are free to cross wherever we like, but appears you can only cross where you're told to! And then I saw the strangest thing.... a check point on a state border. What's all that about?
Eastern Europeans were less wealthy, but that has little to do with oppression and more to do with poor economic decisions and performance. And actually the East Germans were quite well off. They were quite wealthy individually, they just didn't have anything to spend their money on.
When the wall came down West Germany was flooded with East Germans buying their cars.
I doubt that either the U.S or the U.K. are infected with secret police looking to see if every Citizen is truly following every dictum of a totalitarian government. In fact, a lot of the law and culture leading up to our constitutional Republic came from Great Britain.

As far as crosswalks, there are 2 things at work here.

1) While crosswalks are reasonably ubiquitous to our large cities, in fact, we do have more of our laws delegated to states and fewer dictated by the federal government than either the U.K or Europe. That is one reason one must get a drivers license from a particular state rather than the federal government.

2) We are more of a car culture than you are. This might partially be because of the massively larger distances over here. Not allowing pedestrians to cross at crosswalks makes it easier and safer for larger amounts of cars to move through a city. In Europe, and growing more here in the more liberal parts of our country there is a disdain for cars, particularly privately owned cars. The legal environment there and growing here is to make it less efficient to use cars, and eventually to actually ban them from dense parts of cities.

As far as Eastern Europe, their poverty, is greatly related to oppression, just not so greatly related to CURRENT oppression. They are still climbing out of that great oppression that occurred under Soviet Rule. It is evidence that such economic oppression can have long lasting effects.

Regards,

George Clay

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