UK to ban depictions of traditional mothers in ads.

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gardener4life
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Re: UK to ban depictions of traditional mothers in ads.

Post by gardener4life »

Well even if there is manufacturing, if he's shown a noticable trend of it going away thats still truth. The real world always changing is more like greater than and less than than always at a certain point. So if manufacturing is going down its still a sign of warning given what we know about certain quotes about manufacturing going away when there is anarchy in the land as a whole.

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David13
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Re: UK to ban depictions of traditional mothers in ads.

Post by David13 »

dafty wrote: ↑December 22nd, 2017, 9:17 am
David13 wrote: ↑December 22nd, 2017, 8:24 am
Robin Hood wrote: ↑December 20th, 2017, 2:03 am
David13 wrote: ↑December 19th, 2017, 9:02 pm


Robin Hood
I already did. One that's important to me is the freedom to buy, own and carry a gun.
I can walk into a store, buy a gun with no background check, pay the money, and walk out with the gun. And I could buy any type of long gun or hand gun that is manufactured. All I have to have is the money.
And I can put it in my pocket and carry it around just about anywhere. Or I can strap it on my hip and openly carry it around, fully loaded. All completely legal. And why not? I'm a free citizen of a free country.
And the other 100 or 1000 differences with your country are just as, or more dramatic.

Now, I just knew you would say that. Guns, guns, guns, it's all about the guns!
So, gun buying aside (even though I can also buy a gun here, but I won't argue the point) what are some of the other "100 or 1000 differences"?
Did you not list any of them because you just made those number up and you actually know very little about my country and it's freedoms?

As far as your country, I know the important point. I don't want to live there. Along with about a whole lot of expat Brits who live all over the US. I don't know the numbers, but I have encountered quite a few. I think it started before the Beatles.

You have also misstated British gun laws. My understanding is that you cannot CANNOT purchase, own, buy or sell ANY a n y handgun. Nary a one.
That that law was passed in 1997. And to own some long guns, you need to go thru' convoluted hoops to tell them why you want the gun. Yeah, that's not as important as crossing the street in the middle of the block.

dc

Robin Hood
I know you have a fear or hatred or phobia about guns. But they are very functional for the rancher, hunter, farmer, anyone who works in the woods, and anyone who is interested in, as the Book of Mormon says, preserving their life and the life of their family, but also they are collectors items.

There is a tremendous world wide market for guns of all ages, old historic pieces that may never shoot again, or shooters, old classics and so forth that are taken out for exercise maybe only once or twice a year.

In addition to being tools, they are toys to play with and be collected, just like motorcycles, old and new cars, tractors, snow mobiles, ATVs, etc.
Kinda like you Brits with your stamp collections.
Just bear in mind this one thing(next time you try to elevate your manhood, by patronizing'stamp collecting'brits)-The Top heavyweight boxing champion is British...and will be for a while😁

I'm not patronizing stamp collectors.

And I have no idea, and want no idea of who the boxing champ is. I do not think "sport" is watching someone else do something. And I have no desire to watch boxing. So nice try at trying to "elevate your manhood" by riding on someone else's coat tails.
dc

dafty
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Re: UK to ban depictions of traditional mothers in ads.

Post by dafty »

why did I even bother...🀐

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Robin Hood
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Re: UK to ban depictions of traditional mothers in ads.

Post by Robin Hood »

David13 wrote: ↑December 22nd, 2017, 8:16 am
Robin Hood wrote: ↑December 22nd, 2017, 1:56 am DC,
To answer a question you put regarding motor manufacturers producing cars in the UK.

Land Rover
Mini
Toyota
Honda
Nissan
Morgan
McLaren
Lotus
Aston Martin
Bentley
Rolls Royce
Jaguar
Vauxhall

See how simple that was.
Looking forward to your "100 to 1000" freedoms list.

Well, in spite of the mile high unemployment rate, there are a few jobs left? Tell me, tho', which of those companies are British owned?

Oh, none? Oh.

The freedom list is in the video. Watch the video and you will see them.

dc
Oh right. So the Toyota factory you mentioned relocating from California to Texas, is that well known American car manufacturer?

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Robin Hood
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Re: UK to ban depictions of traditional mothers in ads.

Post by Robin Hood »

David13 wrote: ↑December 22nd, 2017, 8:16 am

Well, in spite of the mile high unemployment rate...
DC,
The evaporation of your credibility accelerates with every post.
You really aren't doing yourself any favours. Ever heard that when you're in a hole it's a good idea to stop digging?

Unemployment rate in the UK - 4.2%
Unemployment rate in the US - 4.1%

So yeah, the US is streets ahead!

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David13
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Re: UK to ban depictions of traditional mothers in ads.

Post by David13 »

Robin Hood wrote: ↑December 22nd, 2017, 12:19 pm
David13 wrote: ↑December 22nd, 2017, 8:16 am
Robin Hood wrote: ↑December 22nd, 2017, 1:56 am DC,
To answer a question you put regarding motor manufacturers producing cars in the UK.

Land Rover
Mini
Toyota
Honda
Nissan
Morgan
McLaren
Lotus
Aston Martin
Bentley
Rolls Royce
Jaguar
Vauxhall

See how simple that was.
Looking forward to your "100 to 1000" freedoms list.

Well, in spite of the mile high unemployment rate, there are a few jobs left? Tell me, tho', which of those companies are British owned?

Oh, none? Oh.

The freedom list is in the video. Watch the video and you will see them.

dc
Oh right. So the Toyota factory you mentioned relocating from California to Texas, is that well known American car manufacturer?

It does surprise me that any cars are still made in Britain.

Does Ford own anything in Britain?

Toyota, Honda, Nissan are all made in USA and are very big. But there is also Ford, GM, etc.

And I don't believe your unemployment rate at all.
Here's just one commentary on it.
I guess I should ask you if your pants burn when you tell someone else's lie.
dc

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David13
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Re: UK to ban depictions of traditional mothers in ads.

Post by David13 »

Robin Hood wrote: ↑December 22nd, 2017, 12:53 pm
David13 wrote: ↑December 22nd, 2017, 8:16 am

Well, in spite of the mile high unemployment rate...
DC,
The evaporation of your credibility accelerates with every post.
You really aren't doing yourself any favours. Ever heard that when you're in a hole it's a good idea to stop digging?

Unemployment rate in the UK - 4.2%
Unemployment rate in the US - 4.1%

So yeah, the US is streets ahead!
Credibility? That's a good laugh. 4.2%, ha ha ha.

The hole of ridiculousness you are in is saying that soviet era Russia had the same freedoms as the US of A because in either place you could not cross the street in the middle of the block.

Like I mentioned, anarchy should never be confused with freedom, and we have a duty to protect, to fight for what freedoms we have left, lest we end up like you and your nation, unable to grasp the truth.
dc

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Robin Hood
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Re: UK to ban depictions of traditional mothers in ads.

Post by Robin Hood »

David13 wrote: ↑December 22nd, 2017, 8:45 pm
Robin Hood wrote: ↑December 22nd, 2017, 12:53 pm
David13 wrote: ↑December 22nd, 2017, 8:16 am

Well, in spite of the mile high unemployment rate...
DC,
The evaporation of your credibility accelerates with every post.
You really aren't doing yourself any favours. Ever heard that when you're in a hole it's a good idea to stop digging?

Unemployment rate in the UK - 4.2%
Unemployment rate in the US - 4.1%

So yeah, the US is streets ahead!
Credibility? That's a good laugh. 4.2%, ha ha ha.

The hole of ridiculousness you are in is saying that soviet era Russia had the same freedoms as the US of A because in either place you could not cross the street in the middle of the block.

Like I mentioned, anarchy should never be confused with freedom, and we have a duty to protect, to fight for what freedoms we have left, lest we end up like you and your nation, unable to grasp the truth.
dc
Dc,
Go back and read my comments, I never said that!
I said they were overtly oppressed (they knew they were oppressed and they knew who was doing it), whereas we are covertly oppressed (we don't realise we are oppressed, and haven't a clue who is responsible). Our oppression is worse because it is perpetual. We think we are free but it's all a massive sleight of hand. If we really wanted to be free and throw of our appressors we wouldn't know where to start.
Those living under communism in eastern Europe found it easier to defeat their oppressors because they could see the enemy.

My other point was that, unlike you, I had actually been to communist eastern Europe. The picture painted in the West about life there was grossly exaggerated for propaganda purposes. I'm not defending communism, far from it. But in terms of the peoples standard of living it was not nearly as poor as you appear to think it was.

And my final point was that freedom cannot and should not be measured by material wealth. In fact, material wealth is one of the tools used to mask oppression.

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David13
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Re: UK to ban depictions of traditional mothers in ads.

Post by David13 »

Robin Hood wrote: ↑December 24th, 2017, 6:10 am
David13 wrote: ↑December 22nd, 2017, 8:45 pm
Robin Hood wrote: ↑December 22nd, 2017, 12:53 pm
David13 wrote: ↑December 22nd, 2017, 8:16 am

Well, in spite of the mile high unemployment rate...
DC,
The evaporation of your credibility accelerates with every post.
You really aren't doing yourself any favours. Ever heard that when you're in a hole it's a good idea to stop digging?

Unemployment rate in the UK - 4.2%
Unemployment rate in the US - 4.1%

So yeah, the US is streets ahead!
Credibility? That's a good laugh. 4.2%, ha ha ha.

The hole of ridiculousness you are in is saying that soviet era Russia had the same freedoms as the US of A because in either place you could not cross the street in the middle of the block.

Like I mentioned, anarchy should never be confused with freedom, and we have a duty to protect, to fight for what freedoms we have left, lest we end up like you and your nation, unable to grasp the truth.
dc
Dc,
Go back and read my comments, I never said that!
I said they were overtly oppressed (they knew they were oppressed and they knew who was doing it), whereas we are covertly oppressed (we don't realise we are oppressed, and haven't a clue who is responsible). Our oppression is worse because it is perpetual. We think we are free but it's all a massive sleight of hand. If we really wanted to be free and throw of our appressors we wouldn't know where to start.
Those living under communism in eastern Europe found it easier to defeat their oppressors because they could see the enemy.

My other point was that, unlike you, I had actually been to communist eastern Europe. The picture painted in the West about life there was grossly exaggerated for propaganda purposes. I'm not defending communism, far from it. But in terms of the peoples standard of living it was not nearly as poor as you appear to think it was.

And my final point was that freedom cannot and should not be measured by material wealth. In fact, material wealth is one of the tools used to mask oppression.

RH
Well, you are changing your tune a great deal here.

We know exactly who amongst us is responsible for the great oppression known as the New World Order that they seek to impose upon us, and what path they need to use to do it.

Our "oppression" is slight in some America areas, and far more severe and advanced in others.

Our "oppression" is only covert or invisible to those who refuse to see it. It starts with disarmament.

Any oppression is perpetual. Once it is in place, it will never be removed. Once we lose our gun rights they will never be restored.

Believe me, many a politician fears an armed citizenry.

Many of them fear their "own" armies, as they are sometimes more interested in freedom than in "oppressing" their fellow citizens.

So as I say, gun rights are a sort of "tip of the iceberg".

We know exactly where to start. It's with Brexit, withdrawal from the United Nations, and the election of a President who is not known as being a cultural marxist, socialist/communist, or New World Order shill.

We think we are free? That's the point. We have to know what freedom is. And one of the most important freedoms is to have an availability of consumer goods. It's one of the great reasons why communism/socialism is so bad. It destroys the productive process, and nobody gets much of anything, except of course, the elite. So material wealth is a big part of it.

Those living under communist rule in eastern Europe were able to throw off their communist oppressors primarily because those communist oppressors had, as communism always does, provided so little material wealth for the people that the people were will to take to the streets to fight (if they were armed), and in many cases the army was with them. If they army was not with them, then ...

In more specific terms, nobody or no thing threw off soviet rule. Not Ronald Reagan. It collapsed of it's own accord, it's inability to provide any material wealth for the population. They knew their enemy all along, but they were helpless. They knew their situation.

You have no idea where I have been.

My point about he standard of living difference is that it was worse in soviet era Russian than in the US of A. I didn't give any facts and figures to say six rubles better or worse. I merely said worse.

If you went to any soviet bloc country and didn't see that, your eyes were closed. Or Brits seem to live a lot worse than I saw.

The standard of living in soviet era Russia was exactly what I thought it was. Poor indeed compared to our standard.

Your final point now comes out. Material wealth is indeed not the only factor to use in comparison. But it's one of the most important, as it is one of the greatest functions of freedom that we have.

dc

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Robin Hood
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Location: England

Re: UK to ban depictions of traditional mothers in ads.

Post by Robin Hood »

David13 wrote: ↑December 24th, 2017, 8:19 am
Robin Hood wrote: ↑December 24th, 2017, 6:10 am
David13 wrote: ↑December 22nd, 2017, 8:45 pm
Robin Hood wrote: ↑December 22nd, 2017, 12:53 pm

DC,
The evaporation of your credibility accelerates with every post.
You really aren't doing yourself any favours. Ever heard that when you're in a hole it's a good idea to stop digging?

Unemployment rate in the UK - 4.2%
Unemployment rate in the US - 4.1%

So yeah, the US is streets ahead!
Credibility? That's a good laugh. 4.2%, ha ha ha.

The hole of ridiculousness you are in is saying that soviet era Russia had the same freedoms as the US of A because in either place you could not cross the street in the middle of the block.

Like I mentioned, anarchy should never be confused with freedom, and we have a duty to protect, to fight for what freedoms we have left, lest we end up like you and your nation, unable to grasp the truth.
dc
Dc,
Go back and read my comments, I never said that!
I said they were overtly oppressed (they knew they were oppressed and they knew who was doing it), whereas we are covertly oppressed (we don't realise we are oppressed, and haven't a clue who is responsible). Our oppression is worse because it is perpetual. We think we are free but it's all a massive sleight of hand. If we really wanted to be free and throw of our appressors we wouldn't know where to start.
Those living under communism in eastern Europe found it easier to defeat their oppressors because they could see the enemy.

My other point was that, unlike you, I had actually been to communist eastern Europe. The picture painted in the West about life there was grossly exaggerated for propaganda purposes. I'm not defending communism, far from it. But in terms of the peoples standard of living it was not nearly as poor as you appear to think it was.

And my final point was that freedom cannot and should not be measured by material wealth. In fact, material wealth is one of the tools used to mask oppression.

RH
Well, you are changing your tune a great deal here.

We know exactly who amongst us is responsible for the great oppression known as the New World Order that they seek to impose upon us, and what path they need to use to do it.

Our "oppression" is slight in some America areas, and far more severe and advanced in others.

Our "oppression" is only covert or invisible to those who refuse to see it. It starts with disarmament.

Any oppression is perpetual. Once it is in place, it will never be removed. Once we lose our gun rights they will never be restored.

Believe me, many a politician fears an armed citizenry.

Many of them fear their "own" armies, as they are sometimes more interested in freedom than in "oppressing" their fellow citizens.

So as I say, gun rights are a sort of "tip of the iceberg".

We know exactly where to start. It's with Brexit, withdrawal from the United Nations, and the election of a President who is not known as being a cultural marxist, socialist/communist, or New World Order shill.

We think we are free? That's the point. We have to know what freedom is. And one of the most important freedoms is to have an availability of consumer goods. It's one of the great reasons why communism/socialism is so bad. It destroys the productive process, and nobody gets much of anything, except of course, the elite. So material wealth is a big part of it.

Those living under communist rule in eastern Europe were able to throw off their communist oppressors primarily because those communist oppressors had, as communism always does, provided so little material wealth for the people that the people were will to take to the streets to fight (if they were armed), and in many cases the army was with them. If they army was not with them, then ...

In more specific terms, nobody or no thing threw off soviet rule. Not Ronald Reagan. It collapsed of it's own accord, it's inability to provide any material wealth for the population. They knew their enemy all along, but they were helpless. They knew their situation.

You have no idea where I have been.

My point about he standard of living difference is that it was worse in soviet era Russian than in the US of A. I didn't give any facts and figures to say six rubles better or worse. I merely said worse.

If you went to any soviet bloc country and didn't see that, your eyes were closed. Or Brits seem to live a lot worse than I saw.

The standard of living in soviet era Russia was exactly what I thought it was. Poor indeed compared to our standard.

Your final point now comes out. Material wealth is indeed not the only factor to use in comparison. But it's one of the most important, as it is one of the greatest functions of freedom that we have.

dc
Did I ever mention the Soviet Union?
I think I was mainly talking about eastern Europe under communism. A place where I have been and witnessed conditions for myself, and you haven't.

I have also been to the US. Great country, warm, friendly, and very hospitable people. But what's with trailer parks? I have seen deprivation in the US that simply would not be tolerated here on such a scale. How does freedom measured by one of your favourite standards (wealth) relate to those people? Clearly doesn't seem to be working very well for them.

Unemployment is a necessary condition in a capitalist society. In order for it to work as it does there has to be a pool of unemployed people desperate for work, and a work force equally desperate not to join them. That is one way control is exerted. Another is debt. There was no unemployment or debt in communist East Germany, but they were not free.

So freedom has very little to do with material wealth. The East Germans had work, food, clothes, homes, tv, electricity, cars etc, but they were not free.

Keep the people in fear and debt and you control them. They are working under indentured servitude but they think they are free because they are at least keeping the hamster wheel spinning and get to vote for the status quo every 4 years (just as the Soviets did). But with the little money they are able to acquire they can buy a gun, so in dc's world they are free.

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David13
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Re: UK to ban depictions of traditional mothers in ads.

Post by David13 »

Robin Hood wrote: ↑December 24th, 2017, 6:10 am
David13 wrote: ↑December 22nd, 2017, 8:45 pm
Robin Hood wrote: ↑December 22nd, 2017, 12:53 pm

...


And my final point was that freedom cannot and should not be measured by material wealth. In fact, material wealth is one of the tools used to mask oppression.
RH
I really don't think you understand human life much.

One of the most important freedoms we have is the freedom to go into a store and buy things.

To have things there for us to buy. Like bread. In soviet era Russia, much like Venezuela today, you couldn't buy anything at the store. They just didn't have anything, or much of anything.

And the reason why that freedom is there, is a free market, or as close to it as possible. The producer anticipates a profit from the sale.

Thus they put the product out there and you get to vote with your dollar.

Under a planned soviet, or communist/socialist economy all that ends up failing miserably.

And California long ago drove out all the auto factories. They are now driving out the offices of the auto factories. Nissan left, and Toyota is still in the process of leaving, and Honda is next. The offices, not the factories.

To my knowledge, California with their quasi communist/socialist nonsense prevented them from opening factories here in the first place, except for Toyota, what made a foolish deal with General Motors which got them stuck with ... union workers.

dc

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David13
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Re: UK to ban depictions of traditional mothers in ads.

Post by David13 »

Robin Hood wrote: ↑December 24th, 2017, 8:49 am
David13 wrote: ↑December 24th, 2017, 8:19 am
Robin Hood wrote: ↑December 24th, 2017, 6:10 am
David13 wrote: ↑December 22nd, 2017, 8:45 pm

...

Your final point now comes out. Material wealth is indeed not the only factor to use in comparison. But it's one of the most important, as it is one of the greatest functions of freedom that we have.

dc
Did I ever mention the Soviet Union?
I think I was mainly talking about eastern Europe under communism. A place where I have been and witnessed conditions for myself, and you haven't.

I have also been to the US. Great country, warm, friendly, and very hospitable people. But what's with trailer parks? I have seen deprivation in the US that simply would not be tolerated here on such a scale. How does freedom measured by one of your favourite standards (wealth) relate to those people? Clearly doesn't seem to be working very well for them.

Unemployment is a necessary condition in a capitalist society. In order for it to work as it does there has to be a pool of unemployed people desperate for work, and a work force equally desperate not to join them. That is one way control is exerted. Another is debt. There was no unemployment or debt in communist East Germany, but they were not free.

So freedom has very little to do with material wealth. The East Germans had work, food, clothes, homes, tv, electricity, cars etc, but they were not free.

Keep the people in fear and debt and you control them. They are working under indentured servitude but they think they are free because they are at least keeping the hamster wheel spinning and get to vote for the status quo every 4 years (just as the Soviets did). But with the little money they are able to acquire they can buy a gun, so in dc's world they are free.
RH
I mentioned soviet era Russia many times. You ignored that. You didn't respond.

Again, you have no idea where I have been, but even if you did visit soviet era Russia or East Germany, and didn't see the difference means you are simply blind.

Trailer park people set their own life for themselves. There you go again, thinking it's up to the government to get into everyone's life in every way.

That's the type of thinking, and activity that leads to communism.

People are free to live their own life.

And if you think that's the condition in the US you are indeed blind. If you base your opinion of the US on trailer parks you are totally blind.
You just visited the wrong part of the US, and the wrong people.
dc

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David13
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Re: UK to ban depictions of traditional mothers in ads.

Post by David13 »

Robin Hood
Let me make it simple for you.

Why does anyone in your country want to ban ads with traditional mothers?
dc

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David13
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Re: UK to ban depictions of traditional mothers in ads.

Post by David13 »

Robin Hood
Face it. You are a full fledged socialist/communist. You believe the government show run everyone's life, fully and completely. You believe that trailer parks, and their life style should not be tolerated.

That the government should come in and take over their lives, and dictate to them how it is to be lived.

That's nothing but total government control, and a lack of freedom. And that's what you want for them.
dc

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gclayjr
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Re: UK to ban depictions of traditional mothers in ads.

Post by gclayjr »

Robin Hood,
Did I ever mention the Soviet Union?
I think I was mainly talking about eastern Europe under communism. A place where I have been and witnessed conditions for myself, and you haven't.

I have also been to the US. Great country, warm, friendly, and very hospitable people. But what's with trailer parks? I have seen deprivation in the US that simply would not be tolerated here on such a scale. How does freedom measured by one of your favourite standards (wealth) relate to those people? Clearly doesn't seem to be working very well for them.

Unemployment is a necessary condition in a capitalist society. In order for it to work as it does there has to be a pool of unemployed people desperate for work, and a work force equally desperate not to join them. That is one way control is exerted. Another is debt. There was no unemployment or debt in communist East Germany, but they were not free.

So freedom has very little to do with material wealth. The East Germans had work, food, clothes, homes, tv, electricity, cars etc, but they were not free.

Keep the people in fear and debt and you control them. They are working under indentured servitude but they think they are free because they are at least keeping the hamster wheel spinning and get to vote for the status quo every 4 years (just as the Soviets did). But with the little money they are able to acquire they can buy a gun, so in dc's world they are free.
I don't know about David13, But I have worked in the Czech republic, ( I was there shortly AFTER the fall of communism, so if you were in Eastern Europe, under Communism maybe from your point of view, it was a more wonderful place than after the fall of the iron curtain.

But let me tell you a bit about this Utopian land, Before Communism, it had a great tradition of Eastern Orthodox, catholicism I was doing some work for Phillip Morris in a small town about 40 miles from Prague. The Phillip Morris headquarters was in a former Catholic cathedral, It was beautiful and you could still see the sanctuaries and where icons used to be in this cathedral. I later spent some time in Prague, and was astonished at how many boarded up churches and Cathedrals there were. I was annoyed by more aggressive hookers than I ever had annoying me trying to push for Business , except Rio De Janeiro (In both places this occurred in the best sections of town in early evening). There were all kinds of scams going on in the streets. One of the most common was to try and get you to exchange American dollars (or Euros) for Bulgarian currency which looked a lot like Czech currency, but was nearly worthless.

I am going to confess one of the things I am most ashamed of that happen to me there. One afternoon, I was walking down a main street in Prague, and I saw a crippled beggar sitting in front of a building begging. I saw some scum bag, grab his hat an run.... by me. My mind briefly paused upon a fear that if I knocked that scum bag on his a$$, I might find myself in some eastern European police station. By the time I decided to screw it and do the right thing... it was too late and that scum bag had disappeared into the crowd. I still am ashamed of not having done the right thing for that beggar. I did give him some money, but that still doesn't take away from me the fact that when tested, I failed.

You Socialists (Democratic or not.. and it doesn't matter whether the democratic comes before or after the word socialist) are obsess with stuff ... mammon! I have lived in trailers in trailer parks a number of times in my life. What makes you think they are so bad. They are infinitely better than any apartment you would find in the inner city.

However, you tend to find trailer parks in more rural areas, often lived in by red neck white trash like me. You would find us a bit too independent and self reliant for socialists who like to have their lives secured and guided, and ruled by a benevolent big brother government.

So stick with big city apartments, you would not like American Trailer parks or the trash that lives there.

Regards,

George Clay

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Robin Hood
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Re: UK to ban depictions of traditional mothers in ads.

Post by Robin Hood »

I'm certainly no socialist and have never voted for a socialist or social democratic party in my life. But I'm not so blind as to believe that one side is all evil and the other all good. Such a polarised political world does not exist.

In terms of my politics, I would describe myself as a conservative with significant libertarian leanings.

To assert that we in the west are free is utter nonsense. We have some freedoms, but not others. We are controlled in many facets of our lives, others not so much. We have a phoney freedom, designed to lull ans decieve the people. It must be admitted, this has been a very successful approach.
But to claim that eastern European countries were oppressed, based purely on their material wealth as dc seems to suggest, is simplistic and juvenile. By extension, anyone who is in straightened circumstance is therefore not free. Yet some of the poorest so-called primitive tribes in the far flung and remote regions of the world are the most free people in existance, despite their apparent poverty.

I find it very strange that wealth even enters into a discussion about freedom and oppression. But as long as people such as dc believe as they do, covert oppression will continue to thrive and manipulate the people by various means, while the people themselves declare they are free; which is of course exactly what the system has taught them, and indeed, requires them to do. In this regard dc is fulfilling his programming very well indeed.

As for trailer parks, no I don't like them. We don't have them. I live in the countryside, in a small village, and we would never permit such things here. Not because the government says so, but because we say so.
Why does the US tolerate this? It can't be because of poverty, given that the US is the richest country in the world.

If dc and others really think they are free I suggest they read or re-read Nineteen Eighty-Four by George Orwell. But read it how it was meant to be read and understood, and apply it to what you experience in your world.
It's an eye-opener.
Also, 4 Nephi 1.

Anyway, Merry Christmas which we in the UK are allowed to say.... none of this "happy holidays" rubbish ;)

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gclayjr
captain of 1,000
Posts: 2727
Location: Pennsylvania

Re: UK to ban depictions of traditional mothers in ads.

Post by gclayjr »

Robin Hood,
I'm certainly no socialist and have never voted for a socialist or social democratic party in my life. But I'm not so blind as to believe that one side is all evil and the other all good. Such a polarised political world does not exist.

In terms of my politics, I would describe myself as a conservative with significant libertarian leanings.

To assert that we in the west are free is utter nonsense. We have some freedoms, but not others. We are controlled in many facets of our lives, others not so much. We have a phoney freedom, designed to lull ans decieve the people. It must be admitted, this has been a very successful approach.
But to claim that eastern European countries were oppressed, based purely on their material wealth as dc seems to suggest, is simplistic and juvenile. By extension, anyone who is in straightened circumstance is therefore not free. Yet some of the poorest so-called primitive tribes in the far flung and remote regions of the world are the most free people in existance, despite their apparent poverty.

I find it very strange that wealth even enters into a discussion about freedom and oppression. But as long as people such as dc believe as they do, covert oppression will continue to thrive and manipulate the people by various means, while the people themselves declare they are free; which is of course exactly what the system has taught them, and indeed, requires them to do. In this regard dc is fulfilling his programming very well indeed.

As for trailer parks, no I don't like them. We don't have them. I live in the countryside, in a small village, and we would never permit such things here. Not because the government says so, but because we say so.
Why does the US tolerate this? It can't be because of poverty, given that the US is the richest country in the world.

If dc and others really think they are free I suggest they read or re-read Nineteen Eighty-Four by George Orwell. But read it how it was meant to be read and understood, and apply it to what you experience in your world.
It's an eye-opener.
I must admit that there has been a very long over the top exchange between you and David13, so I haven't read in detail what each has said on this thread. He seems to be focused on gun control, and maybe in your attempt to provoke him you have settled into making ridiculous assertions yourself in regards to freedom, such as identifying it with crossing city streets in the middle of the block. You have ignored my more serious notations in regards to losses of freedom to include your passion for a freedom stifling (But no cost to you) NHS, and to excessive government oversight in both countries.

You also seem to fall into the same trap that some other (to remain nameless for now) on this board do who may see true losses of freedom here, so they extol the virtues of Russia, Putin, and Venezuela. The fact that we are slipping and don't have the freedoms we used to or should, does not mean that Putin is Not a despicable despot, and that Russia, and Venezuela are not horrible places today, and that Russia, while freer, than the former Soviet Union, is still a horrible place to live, and any American,,, or Brit who thinks otherwise should move there.

America is a very large country, Many of us have not seen the world. I had no desire to see the world, however do to my work, I traveled a lot to include very extensive work in Latin America and working in Europe and New Zealand (Now NZ... that is a wonderful place). From my personal experience, Places like the Czech republic are not such free and wonderful places to live.

You may not be Socialist, but you post defending it a lot. Not just on this thread. It is true that the differences in freedom or loss of freedom between the UK and the US are not that great. However this is where it looks like you go the most wrong, and where maybe you should reconsider some of your shots at David13.

What is the path to that freedom? More government or less government? More social redistribution or more laissez fair capitalism? More government oversight of people's daily lives or less?

Your honest answers to these questions tell more about you than your insults of the US.

By the way, it is fine that you don't like mobile homes and I guess it is fine that you guys in Britain, also don't like pick up trucks. However, both are based upon prejudicial ignorance and stereotypes and not real knowledge, Having experienced both, I would be glad to live in another mobile home, and I find my 1 ton 4x4 more useful than you could ever imagine.

But then I am not ashamed of my red neck white trash roots.

Regards,

George Clay

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David13
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Posts: 7072
Location: Utah

Re: UK to ban depictions of traditional mothers in ads.

Post by David13 »

Robin Hood wrote: ↑December 25th, 2017, 1:08 am I'm certainly no socialist and have never voted for a socialist or social democratic party in my life. But I'm not so blind as to believe that one side is all evil and the other all good. Such a polarised political world does not exist.

In terms of my politics, I would describe myself as a conservative with significant libertarian leanings.

To assert that we in the west are free is utter nonsense. We have some freedoms, but not others. We are controlled in many facets of our lives, others not so much. We have a phoney freedom, designed to lull ans decieve the people. It must be admitted, this has been a very successful approach.
But to claim that eastern European countries were oppressed, based purely on their material wealth as dc seems to suggest, is simplistic and juvenile. By extension, anyone who is in straightened circumstance is therefore not free. Yet some of the poorest so-called primitive tribes in the far flung and remote regions of the world are the most free people in existance, despite their apparent poverty.

I find it very strange that wealth even enters into a discussion about freedom and oppression. But as long as people such as dc believe as they do, covert oppression will continue to thrive and manipulate the people by various means, while the people themselves declare they are free; which is of course exactly what the system has taught them, and indeed, requires them to do. In this regard dc is fulfilling his programming very well indeed.

As for trailer parks, no I don't like them. We don't have them. I live in the countryside, in a small village, and we would never permit such things here. Not because the government says so, but because we say so.
Why does the US tolerate this? It can't be because of poverty, given that the US is the richest country in the world.

If dc and others really think they are free I suggest they read or re-read Nineteen Eighty-Four by George Orwell. But read it how it was meant to be read and understood, and apply it to what you experience in your world.
It's an eye-opener.
Also, 4 Nephi 1.

Anyway, Merry Christmas which we in the UK are allowed to say.... none of this "happy holidays" rubbish ;)

You are no socialist? Then why do you post so much pro socialist points of view? You believe that not being a socialist is simply saying you are not a socialist? Not quite.

I said compared. I did not say black and white. You are blind in your reading, also. Compare the two. We are constantly lamenting the loss, the chipping away of our freedom here. You never seem to do that, so again, maybe you are happy with the socialist loss of freedom.

Material wealth is one sign of freedom AS ARE GUN RIGHTS. You cannot buy or own a handgun. I can. That makes a great deal of difference for my personal safety in many areas of the US where people can exercise, no abuse, their freedom.

On the one hand you say they are free living in the primitive state in the jungle, but turn around and bemoan the primitive state of the red neck trailer park. That's talking out of both sides of your mouth. Both those folks are most free, aren't they? So why wouldn't you and your socialist little village tolerate them?

We are still happy to tolerate freedom here.

Again, daily we lament our loss of freedom to blind people who say, oh yes, we are all conservative, but all they do is ... government control, government control, government control.

We have a word for them here. RINO. Republican in Name Only.

You need a name for those in your country. CINO. Conservative in Name Only.
dc

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Robin Hood
Level 34 Illuminated
Posts: 13111
Location: England

Re: UK to ban depictions of traditional mothers in ads.

Post by Robin Hood »

David13 wrote: ↑December 25th, 2017, 9:33 am
Robin Hood wrote: ↑December 25th, 2017, 1:08 am I'm certainly no socialist and have never voted for a socialist or social democratic party in my life. But I'm not so blind as to believe that one side is all evil and the other all good. Such a polarised political world does not exist.

In terms of my politics, I would describe myself as a conservative with significant libertarian leanings.

To assert that we in the west are free is utter nonsense. We have some freedoms, but not others. We are controlled in many facets of our lives, others not so much. We have a phoney freedom, designed to lull ans decieve the people. It must be admitted, this has been a very successful approach.
But to claim that eastern European countries were oppressed, based purely on their material wealth as dc seems to suggest, is simplistic and juvenile. By extension, anyone who is in straightened circumstance is therefore not free. Yet some of the poorest so-called primitive tribes in the far flung and remote regions of the world are the most free people in existance, despite their apparent poverty.

I find it very strange that wealth even enters into a discussion about freedom and oppression. But as long as people such as dc believe as they do, covert oppression will continue to thrive and manipulate the people by various means, while the people themselves declare they are free; which is of course exactly what the system has taught them, and indeed, requires them to do. In this regard dc is fulfilling his programming very well indeed.

As for trailer parks, no I don't like them. We don't have them. I live in the countryside, in a small village, and we would never permit such things here. Not because the government says so, but because we say so.
Why does the US tolerate this? It can't be because of poverty, given that the US is the richest country in the world.

If dc and others really think they are free I suggest they read or re-read Nineteen Eighty-Four by George Orwell. But read it how it was meant to be read and understood, and apply it to what you experience in your world.
It's an eye-opener.
Also, 4 Nephi 1.

Anyway, Merry Christmas which we in the UK are allowed to say.... none of this "happy holidays" rubbish ;)

You are no socialist? Then why do you post so much pro socialist points of view? You believe that not being a socialist is simply saying you are not a socialist? Not quite.

I said compared. I did not say black and white. You are blind in your reading, also. Compare the two. We are constantly lamenting the loss, the chipping away of our freedom here. You never seem to do that, so again, maybe you are happy with the socialist loss of freedom.

Material wealth is one sign of freedom AS ARE GUN RIGHTS. You cannot buy or own a handgun. I can. That makes a great deal of difference for my personal safety in many areas of the US where people can exercise, no abuse, their freedom.

On the one hand you say they are free living in the primitive state in the jungle, but turn around and bemoan the primitive state of the red neck trailer park. That's talking out of both sides of your mouth. Both those folks are most free, aren't they? So why wouldn't you and your socialist little village tolerate them?

We are still happy to tolerate freedom here.

Again, daily we lament our loss of freedom to blind people who say, oh yes, we are all conservative, but all they do is ... government control, government control, government control.

We have a word for them here. RINO. Republican in Name Only.

You need a name for those in your country. CINO. Conservative in Name Only.
dc
Your problem dc is that you assume that since you are not a socialist, anyone who expresses a political point of view which differs from yours must therefore be a socialist. You appear to live is a very polarised world. There is the world according to dc, and the world according to socialism. I consider this to be a very strange thing indeed.

It is an attitude I have encountered in the past from Americans who have no real idea of what the world is all about and how it works. This is most often found amongst those from certain states.
Americans from the eastern or western seaboards are very different in my experience.
I encountered people in Utah, for example, who had no idea that we speak English in England!
This is why I find your attitude puzzling because I understand that you are from California.
Perhaps you are the exception which proves the rule.

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gclayjr
captain of 1,000
Posts: 2727
Location: Pennsylvania

Re: UK to ban depictions of traditional mothers in ads.

Post by gclayjr »

Robin Hood,

I have read many of your posts through the years, including your dissembling about the differences between Democratic Socialism and Social Democracy. I also remember your spirited defense of how superior your NHS was, even when it chose to kill an innocent boy whose parents were able to find Americans who would pay for his treatment. I notice that you quickly attack Americans as being close minded while ignorantly slamming our way of life.

I see you make what seems to be a disingenuous claim to be conservative with Libertarian... Libertarian...tendencies you do know there is more to being libertarian than being pro marijuana and abortion don't you?

Yet despite this incoherence and confusion in your postings you never answer the direct questions I put in large type that might bring clarity to your confused writings.
You may not be Socialist, but you post defending it a lot. Not just on this thread. It is true that the differences in freedom or loss of freedom between the UK and the US are not that great. However this is where it looks like you go the most wrong, and where maybe you should reconsider some of your shots at David13.

What is the path to that freedom? More government or less government? More social redistribution or more laissez fair capitalism? More government oversight of people's daily lives or less?

Your honest answers to these questions tell more about you than your insults of the US.
So how about it do you have the integrity and cojones to give a straight answer?

Regards,

George Clay

User avatar
Robin Hood
Level 34 Illuminated
Posts: 13111
Location: England

Re: UK to ban depictions of traditional mothers in ads.

Post by Robin Hood »

gclayjr wrote: ↑December 25th, 2017, 2:43 pm Robin Hood,

I have read many of your posts through the years, including your dissembling about the differences between Democratic Socialism and Social Democracy. I also remember your spirited defense of how superior your NHS was, even when it chose to kill an innocent boy whose parents were able to find Americans who would pay for his treatment. I notice that you quickly attack Americans as being close minded while ignorantly slamming our way of life.

I see you make what seems to be a disingenuous claim to be conservative with Libertarian... Libertarian...tendencies you do know there is more to being libertarian than being pro marijuana and abortion don't you?

Yet despite this incoherence and confusion in your postings you never answer the direct questions I put in large type that might bring clarity to your confused writings.
You may not be Socialist, but you post defending it a lot. Not just on this thread. It is true that the differences in freedom or loss of freedom between the UK and the US are not that great. However this is where it looks like you go the most wrong, and where maybe you should reconsider some of your shots at David13.

What is the path to that freedom? More government or less government? More social redistribution or more laissez fair capitalism? More government oversight of people's daily lives or less?

Your honest answers to these questions tell more about you than your insults of the US.
So how about it do you have the integrity and cojones to give a straight answer?

Regards,

George Clay
Oh George, methinks you have taken liberties with my previous comments. I simply pointed out in the past that there is a difference between socialism and social democracy. Anyone who knows anything about modern politics or political movements would know this, but it seems beyond the abilities of you and others on this forum to comprehend. It disturbs your cosy little worldview. A worldview which has you as the good guys, and anyone who has a different view as the bad guys. And for bad guys, read socialist.

As for the NHS, yes I do think it works quite well, though not perfectly. It is a health scheme paid for by collective insurance just like any insurance scheme. The difference being that this is organised on a national scale and is overseen by the state, although most of it's practicioners are private businesses.
But I am free to pay for my treatment privately if I so choose, either directly or through a private health insurance arrangement. I have a choice.
Having a choice doesn't sound very socialist to me. Maybe if there was a healthcare system which provided no choice, that would be socialist.
Does the US system provide you with the choice that I have? Perhaps it does, I don't know enough about it.

I'm no fan of social democracy, but I do recognise that it is different from socialism. If you care to examine my previous posts you will clearly see that is what I said. I think you have got hold of the wrong end of the stick entirely.

My libertarian beliefs are tempered by my religious faith and moral judgments. I believe government has a role to play but that it often exceeds it's legitimate remit. For example it has no business interfering with the economy except to enact laws to regulate conduct and protect the interests of the people. All governments go beyond these bounds; it seems they just can't help themselves.

But regulating conduct is not socialism, nor is it anti-libertarian, unless of course it is excessive.
I consider myself politically conservative, though not Tory. There is a significant difference but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume I don't have to explain that to you as well.
Last edited by Robin Hood on December 25th, 2017, 5:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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David13
Level 34 Illuminated
Posts: 7072
Location: Utah

Re: UK to ban depictions of traditional mothers in ads.

Post by David13 »

Robin Hood wrote: ↑December 25th, 2017, 1:38 pm
David13 wrote: ↑December 25th, 2017, 9:33 am
Robin Hood wrote: ↑December 25th, 2017, 1:08 am I'm certainly no socialist and have never voted for a socialist or social democratic party in my life. But I'm not so blind as to believe that one side is all evil and the other all good. Such a polarised political world does not exist.

In terms of my politics, I would describe myself as a conservative with significant libertarian leanings.

To assert that we in the west are free is utter nonsense. We have some freedoms, but not others. We are controlled in many facets of our lives, others not so much. We have a phoney freedom, designed to lull ans decieve the people. It must be admitted, this has been a very successful approach.
But to claim that eastern European countries were oppressed, based purely on their material wealth as dc seems to suggest, is simplistic and juvenile. By extension, anyone who is in straightened circumstance is therefore not free. Yet some of the poorest so-called primitive tribes in the far flung and remote regions of the world are the most free people in existance, despite their apparent poverty.

I find it very strange that wealth even enters into a discussion about freedom and oppression. But as long as people such as dc believe as they do, covert oppression will continue to thrive and manipulate the people by various means, while the people themselves declare they are free; which is of course exactly what the system has taught them, and indeed, requires them to do. In this regard dc is fulfilling his programming very well indeed.

As for trailer parks, no I don't like them. We don't have them. I live in the countryside, in a small village, and we would never permit such things here. Not because the government says so, but because we say so.
Why does the US tolerate this? It can't be because of poverty, given that the US is the richest country in the world.

If dc and others really think they are free I suggest they read or re-read Nineteen Eighty-Four by George Orwell. But read it how it was meant to be read and understood, and apply it to what you experience in your world.
It's an eye-opener.
Also, 4 Nephi 1.

Anyway, Merry Christmas which we in the UK are allowed to say.... none of this "happy holidays" rubbish ;)

You are no socialist? Then why do you post so much pro socialist points of view? You believe that not being a socialist is simply saying you are not a socialist? Not quite.

I said compared. I did not say black and white. You are blind in your reading, also. Compare the two. We are constantly lamenting the loss, the chipping away of our freedom here. You never seem to do that, so again, maybe you are happy with the socialist loss of freedom.

Material wealth is one sign of freedom AS ARE GUN RIGHTS. You cannot buy or own a handgun. I can. That makes a great deal of difference for my personal safety in many areas of the US where people can exercise, no abuse, their freedom.

On the one hand you say they are free living in the primitive state in the jungle, but turn around and bemoan the primitive state of the red neck trailer park. That's talking out of both sides of your mouth. Both those folks are most free, aren't they? So why wouldn't you and your socialist little village tolerate them?

We are still happy to tolerate freedom here.

Again, daily we lament our loss of freedom to blind people who say, oh yes, we are all conservative, but all they do is ... government control, government control, government control.

We have a word for them here. RINO. Republican in Name Only.

You need a name for those in your country. CINO. Conservative in Name Only.
dc
Your problem dc is that you assume that since you are not a socialist, anyone who expresses a political point of view which differs from yours must therefore be a socialist. You appear to live is a very polarised world. There is the world according to dc, and the world according to socialism. I consider this to be a very strange thing indeed.

It is an attitude I have encountered in the past from Americans who have no real idea of what the world is all about and how it works. This is most often found amongst those from certain states.
Americans from the eastern or western seaboards are very different in my experience.
I encountered people in Utah, for example, who had no idea that we speak English in England!
This is why I find your attitude puzzling because I understand that you are from California.
Perhaps you are the exception which proves the rule.


Robin Hood

I have to give you credit for a most vivid imagination. But a demerit for a total lack of understanding of they way other people than you think.

And I'm glad that was nothing but a strange and comical attack on me, and almost all of my fellow countrymen. Why do I like it? It means you have given up trying to sell me some of your very narrow sighted ideas, that you, as a Brit have been indoctrinated into. And hope that we would end up indoctrinated into.

What's with a country that would restrict advertising from using traditional mothers? You would call that a conservative country?

Yes, your childish and immature analysis of Americans is as comical as your idea of "conservative".
dc

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Robin Hood
Level 34 Illuminated
Posts: 13111
Location: England

Re: UK to ban depictions of traditional mothers in ads.

Post by Robin Hood »

David13 wrote: ↑December 25th, 2017, 5:05 pm
Robin Hood wrote: ↑December 25th, 2017, 1:38 pm
David13 wrote: ↑December 25th, 2017, 9:33 am
Robin Hood wrote: ↑December 25th, 2017, 1:08 am I'm certainly no socialist and have never voted for a socialist or social democratic party in my life. But I'm not so blind as to believe that one side is all evil and the other all good. Such a polarised political world does not exist.

In terms of my politics, I would describe myself as a conservative with significant libertarian leanings.

To assert that we in the west are free is utter nonsense. We have some freedoms, but not others. We are controlled in many facets of our lives, others not so much. We have a phoney freedom, designed to lull ans decieve the people. It must be admitted, this has been a very successful approach.
But to claim that eastern European countries were oppressed, based purely on their material wealth as dc seems to suggest, is simplistic and juvenile. By extension, anyone who is in straightened circumstance is therefore not free. Yet some of the poorest so-called primitive tribes in the far flung and remote regions of the world are the most free people in existance, despite their apparent poverty.

I find it very strange that wealth even enters into a discussion about freedom and oppression. But as long as people such as dc believe as they do, covert oppression will continue to thrive and manipulate the people by various means, while the people themselves declare they are free; which is of course exactly what the system has taught them, and indeed, requires them to do. In this regard dc is fulfilling his programming very well indeed.

As for trailer parks, no I don't like them. We don't have them. I live in the countryside, in a small village, and we would never permit such things here. Not because the government says so, but because we say so.
Why does the US tolerate this? It can't be because of poverty, given that the US is the richest country in the world.

If dc and others really think they are free I suggest they read or re-read Nineteen Eighty-Four by George Orwell. But read it how it was meant to be read and understood, and apply it to what you experience in your world.
It's an eye-opener.
Also, 4 Nephi 1.

Anyway, Merry Christmas which we in the UK are allowed to say.... none of this "happy holidays" rubbish ;)

You are no socialist? Then why do you post so much pro socialist points of view? You believe that not being a socialist is simply saying you are not a socialist? Not quite.

I said compared. I did not say black and white. You are blind in your reading, also. Compare the two. We are constantly lamenting the loss, the chipping away of our freedom here. You never seem to do that, so again, maybe you are happy with the socialist loss of freedom.

Material wealth is one sign of freedom AS ARE GUN RIGHTS. You cannot buy or own a handgun. I can. That makes a great deal of difference for my personal safety in many areas of the US where people can exercise, no abuse, their freedom.

On the one hand you say they are free living in the primitive state in the jungle, but turn around and bemoan the primitive state of the red neck trailer park. That's talking out of both sides of your mouth. Both those folks are most free, aren't they? So why wouldn't you and your socialist little village tolerate them?

We are still happy to tolerate freedom here.

Again, daily we lament our loss of freedom to blind people who say, oh yes, we are all conservative, but all they do is ... government control, government control, government control.

We have a word for them here. RINO. Republican in Name Only.

You need a name for those in your country. CINO. Conservative in Name Only.
dc
Your problem dc is that you assume that since you are not a socialist, anyone who expresses a political point of view which differs from yours must therefore be a socialist. You appear to live is a very polarised world. There is the world according to dc, and the world according to socialism. I consider this to be a very strange thing indeed.

It is an attitude I have encountered in the past from Americans who have no real idea of what the world is all about and how it works. This is most often found amongst those from certain states.
Americans from the eastern or western seaboards are very different in my experience.
I encountered people in Utah, for example, who had no idea that we speak English in England!
This is why I find your attitude puzzling because I understand that you are from California.
Perhaps you are the exception which proves the rule.


Robin Hood

.... your childish and immature analysis of Americans is ...comical...
I can only work with the material I'm given. Thankfully you have been very generous.
Last edited by Robin Hood on December 25th, 2017, 5:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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David13
Level 34 Illuminated
Posts: 7072
Location: Utah

Re: UK to ban depictions of traditional mothers in ads.

Post by David13 »

Robin Hood wrote: ↑December 25th, 2017, 5:08 pm
David13 wrote: ↑December 25th, 2017, 5:05 pm
Robin Hood wrote: ↑December 25th, 2017, 1:38 pm
David13 wrote: ↑December 25th, 2017, 9:33 am I can only work with the material I'm given. Thankfully you have provided a great deal of material.

What's with a country that would restrict advertising from using traditional mothers? You would call that a conservative country?

dc

User avatar
Robin Hood
Level 34 Illuminated
Posts: 13111
Location: England

Re: UK to ban depictions of traditional mothers in ads.

Post by Robin Hood »

What's with a country that permits men wearing skirts to use womens bathrooms?

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