Feminist assumptions are lies

[Gage]

If a man breaks covenants or breaks hearts, it is not fair to place the burden on the woman and not expect the man to improve himself and handle the issues. A woman does not have to put up with anything and everything a man choses to do that hurts her or the children. A woman has the right to find a better man if her current one refuses to be a decent guy and respect her and show that he has a good heart. Especially in the church where we believe marriage is eternal.

Do you have any scientific data that demonstrates that men break covenants more than women in marriage?

Oh, and do you have a scriptural spread-sheet that tells a woman when she can pull an "I'm outa here" on a man? If so please share it.

I do fear this attitude has infected a great proportion of the LDS community and when it combines with cultural Marxism, also infecting many members of the Church, the future of the Church will be dismal.

Men are more rational and accepting that nothing is perfect. Women live in the world of fantasy with a perpetual feeling that things are not as good as they should be. Women are born with the desires for a man, no feminist movement will ever change that, the only thing that has changed is expectations. Oh and greed, selfishness and entitlement.

[Fiannan]

I am speaking of women being able to have a voice and not "have" to accept what husbands do just because he's a man and she's a woman. If a man doesn't like a woman standing up for herself (of course I am speaking of standing up for basic treatment of respect) then it may end in divorce and a woman has the right to find a different man who can respect her as an equal.

Please, I mean it, please, show me where I said that a woman should have to accept anything just because a man is a man. I am waiting.

Also, even though I said nothing about women standing up for themselves, just for the sake of argument what would constitute your justifications for a woman leaving a man? Of course there are issues of abuse no man or woman should endure, but aside from that what are some reasons? Maybe 5 reasons she should trade husbands?

[MMbelieve]

I am speaking of women being able to have a voice and not "have" to accept what husbands do just because he's a man and she's a woman. If a man doesn't like a woman standing up for herself (of course I am speaking of standing up for basic treatment of respect) then it may end in divorce and a woman has the right to find a different man who can respect her as an equal.

Please, I mean it, please, show me where I said that a woman should have to accept anything just because a man is a man. I am waiting.

Also, even though I said nothing about women standing up for themselves, just for the sake of argument what would constitute your justifications for a woman leaving a man? Of course there are issues of abuse no man or woman should endure, but aside from that what are some reasons? Maybe 5 reasons she should trade husbands?

Please, I mean it, please..sounded sincere until you said those 3 words at the end: "I am waiting". Sounds like a very demanding and controlling woman, lol.

Anyway, I don't think you said a woman has to put up with anything and everything. Those were my words I used from my opinion and view to add to the conversation/chat. Not personal man, just adding my opinion. So, we're okay. I certainly don't agree with some of what you say at times but that's okay, I replied to your post likely because it's what triggered my thoughts enough to reply. I take this forum lightly, a place to get some of the news happenings in the church and to see what others are thinking about, I do not take it seriously at all. I don't analyze the crap out of posts or care to cite this or that study. This is leisure for me not work.

AND

...could you give me maybe 5 reasons a MAN should "trade" wives?

Your choice of wording is interesting.

Here is my attempt to satisfy your request:

Most of my reasons for a wife leaving a husband AFTER much patience and forgiveness on her part can be deduced down to some form of abuses/neglect. Others could possibly be extreme selfishness, lack of concern or care for being father, criminal behavior, chronic disregard for covenants, mental illness he refuses to seek treatment for that results in bad effects on family, becoming an a-hole and refusing to change (think about a 24/7 taken it upon himself to be as awful as possible, probably to get her to leave), disregard for his duties as as husband - And of course the typical abuses that one can be arrested for.

Again, not scientifically presented or statistically backed up. Just the thoughts off the top of my head.

Fyi, I do not believe a woman or man is justified in simply leaving a spouse because they are hurt or unhappy. Ones word and oath/covenant is something they should do the best to stand by even if they are the only ones honoring it. There are just sometimes when one or the other makes choices or picks paths that exclude their families or hurt them dearly causing the spouse and or children to suffer greatly.

It is these times I believe that heavenly Father desires people to know that they are not a sacrifice to their spouse and are not required to be one, and He wants them to be happy and fulfill their callings in life. We cannot control the other person and sometimes the best thing to do is to leave a person who makes it clear they have chosen to take a different path.

Leaving a spouse is not an easy thing to do and can be frightening and devestating. Even then, it's is sometimes better to leave than to stay in something even worse.

[Fiannan]

I am speaking of women being able to have a voice and not "have" to accept what husbands do just because he's a man and she's a woman. If a man doesn't like a woman standing up for herself (of course I am speaking of standing up for basic treatment of respect) then it may end in divorce and a woman has the right to find a different man who can respect her as an equal.

Please, I mean it, please, show me where I said that a woman should have to accept anything just because a man is a man. I am waiting.

Also, even though I said nothing about women standing up for themselves, just for the sake of argument what would constitute your justifications for a woman leaving a man? Of course there are issues of abuse no man or woman should endure, but aside from that what are some reasons? Maybe 5 reasons she should trade husbands?

...could you give me maybe 5 reasons a man should "trade" wives?

Your choice of wording is interesting.

Asked you first and we do live in a trade-in culture sadly. I will list reasons if you do, if you can.

[MMbelieve]

I am speaking of women being able to have a voice and not "have" to accept what husbands do just because he's a man and she's a woman. If a man doesn't like a woman standing up for herself (of course I am speaking of standing up for basic treatment of respect) then it may end in divorce and a woman has the right to find a different man who can respect her as an equal.

Please, I mean it, please, show me where I said that a woman should have to accept anything just because a man is a man. I am waiting.

Also, even though I said nothing about women standing up for themselves, just for the sake of argument what would constitute your justifications for a woman leaving a man? Of course there are issues of abuse no man or woman should endure, but aside from that what are some reasons? Maybe 5 reasons she should trade husbands?

...could you give me maybe 5 reasons a man should "trade" wives?

Your choice of wording is interesting.

Asked you first and we do live in a trade-in culture sadly. I will list reasons if you do, if you can.

Fiannan, it's really not a difficult task. I replied above to your question.

[Fiannan]

Please, I mean it, please, show me where I said that a woman should have to accept anything just because a man is a man. I am waiting.

Also, even though I said nothing about women standing up for themselves, just for the sake of argument what would constitute your justifications for a woman leaving a man? Of course there are issues of abuse no man or woman should endure, but aside from that what are some reasons? Maybe 5 reasons she should trade husbands?

...could you give me maybe 5 reasons a man should "trade" wives?

Your choice of wording is interesting.

Asked you first and we do live in a trade-in culture sadly. I will list reasons if you do, if you can.

Fiannan, it's really not a difficult task. I replied above to your question.

Again, no you did not. And if it is not difficult then please list five circumstances aside from abuse that warrant a woman filing for divorce.

[MMbelieve]

...could you give me maybe 5 reasons a man should "trade" wives?

Your choice of wording is interesting.

Asked you first and we do live in a trade-in culture sadly. I will list reasons if you do, if you can.

Fiannan, it's really not a difficult task. I replied above to your question.

Again, no you did not. And if it is not difficult then please list five circumstances aside from abuse that warrant a woman filing for divorce.

Here is my reply from earlier:

Here is my attempt to satisfy your request:

Most of my reasons for a wife leaving a husband AFTER much patience and forgiveness on her part can be deduced down to some form of abuses/neglect. Others could possibly be extreme selfishness, lack of concern or care for being father, criminal behavior, chronic disregard for covenants, mental illness he refuses to seek treatment for that results in bad effects on family, becoming an a-hole and refusing to change (think about a 24/7 taken it upon himself to be as awful as possible, probably to get her to leave), disregard for his duties as as husband - And of course the typical abuses that one can be arrested for.

[Fiannan]

Most of my reasons for a wife leaving a husband AFTER much patience and forgiveness on her part can be deduced down to some form of abuses/neglect. Others could possibly be extreme selfishness, lack of concern or care for being father, criminal behavior, chronic disregard for covenants, mental illness he refuses to seek treatment for that results in bad effects on family, becoming an a-hole and refusing to change (think about a 24/7 taken it upon himself to be as awful as possible, probably to get her to leave), disregard for his duties as as husband - And of course the typical abuses that one can be arrested for.

So I assume you would agree then that most divorces in the USA do not fit those criteria? And those that do probably have as many women being the prime cause as men?

[MMbelieve]

Most of my reasons for a wife leaving a husband AFTER much patience and forgiveness on her part can be deduced down to some form of abuses/neglect. Others could possibly be extreme selfishness, lack of concern or care for being father, criminal behavior, chronic disregard for covenants, mental illness he refuses to seek treatment for that results in bad effects on family, becoming an a-hole and refusing to change (think about a 24/7 taken it upon himself to be as awful as possible, probably to get her to leave), disregard for his duties as as husband - And of course the typical abuses that one can be arrested for.

So I assume you would agree then that most divorces in the USA do not fit those criteria? And those that do probably have as many women being the prime cause as men?

I cannot agree or disagree. I do not know of the intimate details about the divorces that occur in the USA or anywhere else.

If you believe most don't fit it then I can assume that you believe most men do not participate in the above mentioned reasons/behaviors?

Women can be as bad as men. It's not exactly comparable because of our different roles though. So if we are talking about men, let's talk about men and their roles and duties. If we want to talk about women then let's talk about women.

[Fiannan]

Most of my reasons for a wife leaving a husband AFTER much patience and forgiveness on her part can be deduced down to some form of abuses/neglect. Others could possibly be extreme selfishness, lack of concern or care for being father, criminal behavior, chronic disregard for covenants, mental illness he refuses to seek treatment for that results in bad effects on family, becoming an a-hole and refusing to change (think about a 24/7 taken it upon himself to be as awful as possible, probably to get her to leave), disregard for his duties as as husband - And of course the typical abuses that one can be arrested for.

So I assume you would agree then that most divorces in the USA do not fit those criteria? And those that do probably have as many women being the prime cause as men?

I cannot agree or disagree. I do not know of the intimate details about the divorces that occur in the USA or anywhere else.

If you believe most don't fit it then I can assume that you believe most men do not participate in the above mentioned reasons/behaviors?

Women can be as bad as men. It's not exactly comparable because of our different roles though. So if we are talking about men, let's talk about men and their roles and duties. If we want to talk about women then let's talk about women.

Which duties? I thought the first duty of any man AND woman was to treat their spouse as they would want to be treated. And of course there is the loyalty virtue through thick and thin. I do not see either of these qualities promoted anywhere in American society anymore and that may be the reason so many men, including LDS men, seek women from other cultures to marry.

[MMbelieve]

Most of my reasons for a wife leaving a husband AFTER much patience and forgiveness on her part can be deduced down to some form of abuses/neglect. Others could possibly be extreme selfishness, lack of concern or care for being father, criminal behavior, chronic disregard for covenants, mental illness he refuses to seek treatment for that results in bad effects on family, becoming an a-hole and refusing to change (think about a 24/7 taken it upon himself to be as awful as possible, probably to get her to leave), disregard for his duties as as husband - And of course the typical abuses that one can be arrested for.

So I assume you would agree then that most divorces in the USA do not fit those criteria? And those that do probably have as many women being the prime cause as men?

I cannot agree or disagree. I do not know of the intimate details about the divorces that occur in the USA or anywhere else.

If you believe most don't fit it then I can assume that you believe most men do not participate in the above mentioned reasons/behaviors?

Women can be as bad as men. It's not exactly comparable because of our different roles though. So if we are talking about men, let's talk about men and their roles and duties. If we want to talk about women then let's talk about women.

Which duties? I thought the first duty of any man AND woman was to treat their spouse as they would want to be treated. And of course there is the loyalty virtue through thick and thin. I do not see either of these qualities promoted anywhere in American society anymore and that may be the reason so many men, including LDS men, seek women from other cultures to marry.

What I mean by duties is the specific roles each gender plays. Yes, in marriage each are supposed to first be there for their spouse, then their children.

Promoted? Absolutely, they are not promoted! One stroll through any american comercial area and it's clear that selfishness and lust and greed and materialism is being promoted.

If we want better by our members then the strength and encouragement to deny the world's messages comes from each and every one of us. All too often we look outside of ourselves for the encouragement and guidance and examples. WE need to be the example and stand up for righteousness. The best thing on earth to conquer the bad messages and influences can easily be your own marriage, when both are genuinely putting the other partner 1st.

But, I have seen a trend in gender bashing from both sides. This doesn't promote righteousness, it's selfishness. If ones spouse is selfish returning the favor and becoming selfish yourself makes you no better than what your complaining about. I originally posted because I felt the need to due to the female/wife bashing that is occurring more and more on this thread. I don't like it anymore than I agree with women coming in here and telling men how they should behave and nd act and blaming them for the ills of society. I believe that women are really being attacked and focused on alot. Which tells me that women are missing the mark a bit and need to refocus. But, there are plenty of good women out there still.

[brianj]

Most of my reasons for a wife leaving a husband AFTER much patience and forgiveness on her part can be deduced down to some form of abuses/neglect. Others could possibly be extreme selfishness, lack of concern or care for being father, criminal behavior, chronic disregard for covenants, mental illness he refuses to seek treatment for that results in bad effects on family, becoming an a-hole and refusing to change (think about a 24/7 taken it upon himself to be as awful as possible, probably to get her to leave), disregard for his duties as as husband - And of course the typical abuses that one can be arrested for.

So I assume you would agree then that most divorces in the USA do not fit those criteria? And those that do probably have as many women being the prime cause as men?

I cannot agree or disagree. I do not know of the intimate details about the divorces that occur in the USA or anywhere else.

If you believe most don't fit it then I can assume that you believe most men do not participate in the above mentioned reasons/behaviors?

Women can be as bad as men. It's not exactly comparable because of our different roles though. So if we are talking about men, let's talk about men and their roles and duties. If we want to talk about women then let's talk about women.

Lesbian couples have higher domestic abuse rates than other types of couples. In that situation does a wife leave because her husband is abusive?
In heterosexual relationships, research has consistently shown that women are as abusive as men. I recall one study that showed when a woman calls the police to report domestic assault, the man was arrested 15.2% of the time. When a man called the police, the woman was arrested 0% of the time BUT the victim of her assault was arrested 12.1% of the time. Yes, almost one in eight male victims of female abusers will be arrested for abuse if he reports it.

We live in a society where people have the attitude that if a woman physically assaults a man, he deserves it. But if a man is observed to take any defensive action, he is an abuser.

I know a lot of men whose wives left because she fell in love with the guy she was having an affair with. Others whose wives left because she was dissatisfied with his income or how much he spent on her. I have one friend who has been married eight years. They've had a house for six years that he's trying to pay off as quickly as he can. They have two decent but older cars. One day she got fed up, bought tickets for herself and her sister, went to Las Vegas, and blew over $5,000. Then she told him that she's divorcing him but she will come back if he buys her a $35,000 new car.

I know many more men who suffered divorce because of other reasons: a woman who decided he's boring, she could do better, his unwillingness to do the majority of the housework for a stay at home mother after spending 50 hours at work each week, and other similarly pathetic excuses. I am not saying it doesn't happen, but the narrative that women are always patient, forgiving, long suffering victims of selfish, abusive, neglectful, covenant breaking men is a lie. It's a lie told so women can portray themselves as always being the good girl and victim. I even know of women who had affairs and claim that their now ex-husband didn't love them enough or tell bigger lies in order to sucker other women into believing they were forced to commit adultery by their faithful husbands.

Women and men can both be very bad. And I wouldn't be very surprised if you currently feel as defensive as I felt reading your explanation of why men are almost always the ones at fault in a divorce.

[passionflower]

Most of my reasons for a wife leaving a husband AFTER much patience and forgiveness on her part can be deduced down to some form of abuses/neglect. Others could possibly be extreme selfishness, lack of concern or care for being father, criminal behavior, chronic disregard for covenants, mental illness he refuses to seek treatment for that results in bad effects on family, becoming an a-hole and refusing to change (think about a 24/7 taken it upon himself to be as awful as possible, probably to get her to leave), disregard for his duties as as husband - And of course the typical abuses that one can be arrested for.

So I assume you would agree then that most divorces in the USA do not fit those criteria? And those that do probably have as many women being the prime cause as men?

I cannot agree or disagree. I do not know of the intimate details about the divorces that occur in the USA or anywhere else.

If you believe most don't fit it then I can assume that you believe most men do not participate in the above mentioned reasons/behaviors?

Women can be as bad as men. It's not exactly comparable because of our different roles though. So if we are talking about men, let's talk about men and their roles and duties. If we want to talk about women then let's talk about women.

Lesbian couples have higher domestic abuse rates than other types of couples. In that situation does a wife leave because her husband is abusive?
In heterosexual relationships, research has consistently shown that women are as abusive as men. I recall one study that showed when a woman calls the police to report domestic assault, the man was arrested 15.2% of the time. When a man called the police, the woman was arrested 0% of the time BUT the victim of her assault was arrested 12.1% of the time. Yes, almost one in eight male victims of female abusers will be arrested for abuse if he reports it.

We live in a society where people have the attitude that if a woman physically assaults a man, he deserves it. But if a man is observed to take any defensive action, he is an abuser.

I know a lot of men whose wives left because she fell in love with the guy she was having an affair with. Others whose wives left because she was dissatisfied with his income or how much he spent on her. I have one friend who has been married eight years. They've had a house for six years that he's trying to pay off as quickly as he can. They have two decent but older cars. One day she got fed up, bought tickets for herself and her sister, went to Las Vegas, and blew over $5,000. Then she told him that she's divorcing him but she will come back if he buys her a $35,000 new car.

I know many more men who suffered divorce because of other reasons: a woman who decided he's boring, she could do better, his unwillingness to do the majority of the housework for a stay at home mother after spending 50 hours at work each week, and other similarly pathetic excuses. I am not saying it doesn't happen, but the narrative that women are always patient, forgiving, long suffering victims of selfish, abusive, neglectful, covenant breaking men is a lie. It's a lie told so women can portray themselves as always being the good girl and victim. I even know of women who had affairs and claim that their now ex-husband didn't love them enough or tell bigger lies in order to sucker other women into believing they were forced to commit adultery by their faithful husbands.

Women and men can both be very bad. And I wouldn't be very surprised if you currently feel as defensive as I felt reading your explanation of why men are almost always the ones at fault in a divorce.

What has pushed feminism and it's assumptions, such as those you site above, is the fault of the government and the Supreme Court. These two entities have forced feminism and other liberal extremes, into acceptance in mainstream society. The Police Force is a nearly total feminist controlled organization, too. That is why the arrests in the case of abuse are so one sided. A woman can easily get any man arrested for assault, and without any real evidence either. And never mind what SHE did to provoke it. And you know that without a million dollars and all the time in the world, no man can win in a divorce case, no matter what kind of woman his wife was.

[MMbelieve]

Most of my reasons for a wife leaving a husband AFTER much patience and forgiveness on her part can be deduced down to some form of abuses/neglect. Others could possibly be extreme selfishness, lack of concern or care for being father, criminal behavior, chronic disregard for covenants, mental illness he refuses to seek treatment for that results in bad effects on family, becoming an a-hole and refusing to change (think about a 24/7 taken it upon himself to be as awful as possible, probably to get her to leave), disregard for his duties as as husband - And of course the typical abuses that one can be arrested for.

So I assume you would agree then that most divorces in the USA do not fit those criteria? And those that do probably have as many women being the prime cause as men?

I cannot agree or disagree. I do not know of the intimate details about the divorces that occur in the USA or anywhere else.

If you believe most don't fit it then I can assume that you believe most men do not participate in the above mentioned reasons/behaviors?

Women can be as bad as men. It's not exactly comparable because of our different roles though. So if we are talking about men, let's talk about men and their roles and duties. If we want to talk about women then let's talk about women.

Lesbian couples have higher domestic abuse rates than other types of couples. In that situation does a wife leave because her husband is abusive?
In heterosexual relationships, research has consistently shown that women are as abusive as men. I recall one study that showed when a woman calls the police to report domestic assault, the man was arrested 15.2% of the time. When a man called the police, the woman was arrested 0% of the time BUT the victim of her assault was arrested 12.1% of the time. Yes, almost one in eight male victims of female abusers will be arrested for abuse if he reports it.

We live in a society where people have the attitude that if a woman physically assaults a man, he deserves it. But if a man is observed to take any defensive action, he is an abuser.

I know a lot of men whose wives left because she fell in love with the guy she was having an affair with. Others whose wives left because she was dissatisfied with his income or how much he spent on her. I have one friend who has been married eight years. They've had a house for six years that he's trying to pay off as quickly as he can. They have two decent but older cars. One day she got fed up, bought tickets for herself and her sister, went to Las Vegas, and blew over $5,000. Then she told him that she's divorcing him but she will come back if he buys her a $35,000 new car.

I know many more men who suffered divorce because of other reasons: a woman who decided he's boring, she could do better, his unwillingness to do the majority of the housework for a stay at home mother after spending 50 hours at work each week, and other similarly pathetic excuses. I am not saying it doesn't happen, but the narrative that women are always patient, forgiving, long suffering victims of selfish, abusive, neglectful, covenant breaking men is a lie. It's a lie told so women can portray themselves as always being the good girl and victim. I even know of women who had affairs and claim that their now ex-husband didn't love them enough or tell bigger lies in order to sucker other women into believing they were forced to commit adultery by their faithful husbands.

Women and men can both be very bad. And I wouldn't be very surprised if you currently feel as defensive as I felt reading your explanation of why men are almost always the ones at fault in a divorce.

My bad, women are the reason for most divorces (according to men) and men are the reason for most divorces (according to women). This bluntly states what I was meaning by its not comparable between the genders. Women and men express the same emotions quite differently. Women express their emotions in ways that hurt men and men express emotions in ways that hurt women.

By the way I never said men were the reason for all divorces.

To answer your first question about lesbian coples, there would be no man to blame since there is two women. Your own feelings coming out here about how men are blamed for everything, obviously if there is no man neither of them would even be thinking of blaming a man....weird question.

And a man punching or throwing his wife is not defensive. The bias is in your voice and words as well. A woman attacks and a man defends....man doesn't attack?

So, yes this thread is and example of the bias of our own gender views as men or women. That's why blame doesn't work, but understanding. I'm not sure there is an ability to do that between men and women. Although, God has told men to live with his wife in understanding. And yes, there are things God has told women as well, just in case you think I'm saying men are the only ones.

Also, my post was not to blame men for all divorces it was a very specific reply to Fiannan's request for the reasons a woman would divorce beyond the obvious criminal abuses.

So why get defensive at that? I understand you have been through it are going through divorce so I imagine the blame of men is probably a very sore subject for you. It's too bad divorces happen and if there was a way to truly understand each other I believe most divorces where there isint serious issues, could be saved. Without learning to understand one another, we will just marry and likely divorce again and again.

Perhaps someone has some real life advice on how to understand the opposite gender and more specific, how to understand individuals better because not all men or women are the same.

[djinwa]

The idea of marriage is dying. Men and women are fundamentally incompatible. We are different. And most women I know are disappointed in their husbands. I could tell several stories, but don't care to. Just go on a dating site and look at the list women have of their fantasy guy.

The public narrative is that men are bad. We all know that. It is made obvious daily. Turn on the news and hear about the killing, raping, robbing, beating, etc. The latest is the METOO thing.

If you dare to question the actions of women, you are called a woman-hater or told you are bitter about your divorce, or somehow marginalized.

The divorces among my relatives were initiated by wives from affluent families that were dissatisfied with husband's income and lifestyle. I have not been able to get an answer as to why those wives were not shamed or given disciplinary action by the church. If we could just admit that families don't matter, but the church exists to give women power, I would be happy. No problem with wives blowing up families, as long as hubby isn't looking at porn or something.

I also wonder why I don't see the following study on TV.

http://www.saveservices.org/2012/02/cdc ... ner-abuse/

SUMMARY: According to a 2010 national survey by the Centers for Disease Control and Department of Justice, in the last 12 months more men than women were victims of intimate partner physical violence and over 40% of severe physical violence was directed at men. Men were also more often the victim of psychological aggression and control over sexual or reproductive health. Despite this, few services are available to male victims of intimate partner violence.

The reason we are not made aware of this, is that women put alot more effort into making themselves victims than do men. And they are better at shaming men, should they complain. "Be a man", "Grow a pair".

This will continue until the whole marriage thing is a big negative for men, and since they aren't as good at fighting for "equality", they'll just check out. The MGTOW movement is growing fast.

In the end, women will find fewer and fewer men available, and won't know why. Then they'll continue to berate and shame men to get them to marry and be "responsible", i.e. give women what they want.

There is no turning back, as this is based on the nature of men and women, which will not change.

So guys, don't waste your time questioning feminism. I was complaining about it to my wife, and she told me I just hate women, after being married to her for 34 years, of course.

As men more and more lose their will to work, it will be interesting to see how it goes with women keeping the power on, maintaining sewer lines, building roads and houses, doing roofing work, etc, etc.

[Fiannan]

The reason we are not made aware of this, is that women put alot more effort into making themselves victims than do men. And they are better at shaming men, should they complain. "Be a man", "Grow a pair".
This will continue until the whole marriage thing is a big negative for men, and since they aren't as good at fighting for "equality", they'll just check out. The MGTOW movement is growing fast.

In the end, women will find fewer and fewer men available, and won't know why. Then they'll continue to berate and shame men to get them to marry and be "responsible", i.e. give women what they want.

I was listening to a man who is a diagnosed psychopath who noted that the singles market for women in their 30s is the perfect hunting ground for psychopathic men. Women bash and demean men and expect them to conform to their contradictory expectations (be all emotional and caring, yet be a strong competitive man in getting goals). So yes, many men do not fit the expectations and are basically thrown into the "leftovers" pile. Of course a psychopath can pretend to be all those things and women past 30 are so desperate for that one-and-only they get served up on the plate (figuratively that is, not some NWO party at an exclusive estate).

This is why psychopaths are the apex of evolution. They will pass on more and more genes into the next generation while the empathetic guys get crushed by narcissistic wannabe women. If it wasn't threatening the strength of the nation by the collapsing birthrate it would be funny, in a dark sort of way.

[Fiannan]

I have not been able to get an answer as to why those wives were not shamed or given disciplinary action by the church. If we could just admit that families don't matter, but the church exists to give women power, I would be happy. No problem with wives blowing up families, as long as hubby isn't looking at porn or something.

For the same reason that women never get chastised for porn use even though young women not only are as apt to be looking at porn as young men but they have a taste for the more disturbing stuff. You see, most men in leadership in the Church are married to, and socialize with, women who not only grew up in Utah culture, but also came of age in the 1940s through the 1970s. In those days divorces were generally due to men leaving loyal wives. That got reversed after the sexual revolution and its twin sister the feminist revolution.

[MMbelieve]

The reason we are not made aware of this, is that women put alot more effort into making themselves victims than do men. And they are better at shaming men, should they complain. "Be a man", "Grow a pair".
This will continue until the whole marriage thing is a big negative for men, and since they aren't as good at fighting for "equality", they'll just check out. The MGTOW movement is growing fast.

In the end, women will find fewer and fewer men available, and won't know why. Then they'll continue to berate and shame men to get them to marry and be "responsible", i.e. give women what they want.

I was listening to a man who is a diagnosed psychopath who noted that the singles market for women in their 30s is the perfect hunting ground for psychopathic men. Women bash and demean men and expect them to conform to their contradictory expectations (be all emotional and caring, yet be a strong competitive man in getting goals). So yes, many men do not fit the expectations and are basically thrown into the "leftovers" pile. Of course a psychopath can pretend to be all those things and women past 30 are so desperate for that one-and-only they get served up on the plate (figuratively that is, not some NWO party at an exclusive estate).

This is why psychopaths are the apex of evolution. They will pass on more and more genes into the next generation while the empathetic guys get crushed by narcissistic wannabe women. If it wasn't threatening the strength of the nation by the collapsing birthrate it would be funny, in a dark sort of way.

Tell me about aspergers men. Because they have an 80% divorce rate when married to neurotypical women. They are also horrible marriages where the women feel as if they are living with either a narcissist or a psychopath because of the damage they cause to women. The lack of reciprocation of feelings, lack of empathy, lack of compassion and concern, inability to connect emotionally etc.
These men are having babies and also the rate of autism is increasing exponentially. I read last year something that stated in 10 years time 1 of every 2 children with have autism.

This is a grand threat to the birthrate! Many autistic adults do not even have the skills to marry or desire to. Aspergers men can mimic enough to get a wife but often after the wedding fall back to their authentic selves and the marriage goes down hill and to very dark places very quickly.

It seems there is a perfect storm brewing in our society and in a decade or 2, no one will be fit to be procreating or in a position to do so.

[gardener4life]

You know a lot of your comments are nice and wonderful. Thanks for commenting.

I am concerned though that so many express the idea to find mate wealthy, strong, etc. but nobody is saying that either sex should prioritize righteousness or spirituality. In the eternal scheme of things I have a hard time believing that people after this mortal sphere wouldn't put righteousness and spirituality first.

[Fiannan]

Tell me about aspergers men. Because they have an 80% divorce rate when married to neurotypical women. They are also horrible marriages where the women feel as if they are living with either a narcissist or a psychopath because of the damage they cause to women. The lack of reciprocation of feelings, lack of empathy, lack of compassion and concern, inability to connect emotionally etc.
These men are having babies and also the rate of autism is increasing exponentially. I read last year something that stated in 10 years time 1 of every 2 children with have autism.

Are you saying that Asperger people and psychopaths are the same? They are not.

Actually it is ironic that the internet is full of commentary from women saying they were victims of being in relationships with psychopaths and narcissists but then say it was the best time of their lives - until it wasn't. The psychopath (usually male but sometimes female) and a conservative woman is an interesting relationship. The psychopath will find how to get her to share all her deepest fantasies and then give her permission to live them. Sadly, when the psychopath loses interest in them they feel cheated and lash out - all the while wishing they had a new psychopath in their lives. Yet if it is a male then he often will leave the woman with one or two kids, then he will eventually find another woman and make a couple of kids, then he will find another woman and...you get the point. Ironically, it is often a highly empathetic male who steps in and marries the woman and assumes the role of step-father. I have seen this many times - goody, goody young woman gets involved with the bad boy (can be wearing a leather jacket or Armani suit) and has children, the relationship ends and she marries a safe guy. He might, maybe, convince her to have a child with him but often doesn't.

As for Asperger I remember when one could be a nerd and not be diagnosed. Oh well, one thing interesting about Aspergers is that they are quite often atheistic as they cannot pull the abstract concepts associated with faith together as well as many other people. Psychopaths are quite often very religious as they are more likely to employ abstract reasoning and don't get all triggered by suffering in the world that many people get angry at God for allowing. You may have had a stake president who was psychopathic, or seen one giving a talk during General Conference. I am quite certain some of the prophets of the Old Testament were psychopathic.

[brianj]

You know a lot of your comments are nice and wonderful. Thanks for commenting.

I am concerned though that so many express the idea to find mate wealthy, strong, etc. but nobody is saying that either sex should prioritize righteousness or spirituality. In the eternal scheme of things I have a hard time believing that people after this mortal sphere wouldn't put righteousness and spirituality first.

I think that, in this church, the idea of spirituality is a given. But, of course, that can be faked for a while. I was really enthusiastic about going on another mission when I came home from my first (not that I am not still enthusiastic), and I recall talking about wanting to serve a mission after retirement. She was supportive of the idea, of course, but as soon as we were married she became very hostile to the idea. "It's unreasonable to expect me to leave my grandchildren, even for just a six month mission. You're making me mad by talking about that!"

When I am ready and able to look for a relationship, an immediate deal breaker will be either wanting to put me first or put her kids first. At different times a given priority will have a greater urgency, but I will put the Lord first, her second, and my children third; and I will not settle for anything less from her. The Lord must come first, and a spouse must be a higher priority than children.

[gardener4life]

You know a lot of your comments are nice and wonderful. Thanks for commenting.

I am concerned though that so many express the idea to find mate wealthy, strong, etc. but nobody is saying that either sex should prioritize righteousness or spirituality. In the eternal scheme of things I have a hard time believing that people after this mortal sphere wouldn't put righteousness and spirituality first.

I think that, in this church, the idea of spirituality is a given. But, of course, that can be faked for a while. I was really enthusiastic about going on another mission when I came home from my first (not that I am not still enthusiastic), and I recall talking about wanting to serve a mission after retirement. She was supportive of the idea, of course, but as soon as we were married she became very hostile to the idea. "It's unreasonable to expect me to leave my grandchildren, even for just a six month mission. You're making me mad by talking about that!"

When I am ready and able to look for a relationship, an immediate deal breaker will be either wanting to put me first or put her kids first. At different times a given priority will have a greater urgency, but I will put the Lord first, her second, and my children third; and I will not settle for anything less from her. The Lord must come first, and a spouse must be a higher priority than children.

Your point is interesting. But if people assume spirituality is a given then they really aren't considering it. You can't really assume spirituality based on church membership. Like people assume that there's returned missionaries on every street corner and then don't consider quality of mission, quality of spirituality. If you discount spirituality then what's left is materialism mostly. So in the end without realizing it they might prioritize materialism without even realizing they cheated themselves.

I am sorry you went through that. It's not fun to be treated by someone in a way that's involving anything hostile.

[MMbelieve]

Tell me about aspergers men. Because they have an 80% divorce rate when married to neurotypical women. They are also horrible marriages where the women feel as if they are living with either a narcissist or a psychopath because of the damage they cause to women. The lack of reciprocation of feelings, lack of empathy, lack of compassion and concern, inability to connect emotionally etc.
These men are having babies and also the rate of autism is increasing exponentially. I read last year something that stated in 10 years time 1 of every 2 children with have autism.

Are you saying that Asperger people and psychopaths are the same? They are not.

Actually it is ironic that the internet is full of commentary from women saying they were victims of being in relationships with psychopaths and narcissists but then say it was the best time of their lives - until it wasn't. The psychopath (usually male but sometimes female) and a conservative woman is an interesting relationship. The psychopath will find how to get her to share all her deepest fantasies and then give her permission to live them. Sadly, when the psychopath loses interest in them they feel cheated and lash out - all the while wishing they had a new psychopath in their lives. Yet if it is a male then he often will leave the woman with one or two kids, then he will eventually find another woman and make a couple of kids, then he will find another woman and...you get the point. Ironically, it is often a highly empathetic male who steps in and marries the woman and assumes the role of step-father. I have seen this many times - goody, goody young woman gets involved with the bad boy (can be wearing a leather jacket or Armani suit) and has children, the relationship ends and she marries a safe guy. He might, maybe, convince her to have a child with him but often doesn't.

As for Asperger I remember when one could be a nerd and not be diagnosed. Oh well, one thing interesting about Aspergers is that they are quite often atheistic as they cannot pull the abstract concepts associated with faith together as well as many other people. Psychopaths are quite often very religious as they are more likely to employ abstract reasoning and don't get all triggered by suffering in the world that many people get angry at God for allowing. You may have had a stake president who was psychopathic, or seen one giving a talk during General Conference. I am quite certain some of the prophets of the Old Testament were psychopathic.

No I am not saying that aspergers and psychopaths is the same. What I was trying to say is the effects of being with an aspergers often resembles the effects of being with a psychopath. It can be difficult to see the difference as they are manifested the same just have very different motives behind it.

Yes, there was a time that one could be a nerd (nice stereotype) and not be diagnosed. But today we have a name for it and what the deficits people with aspergers can have are real and difficult to understand.

[MMbelieve]

You know a lot of your comments are nice and wonderful. Thanks for commenting.

I am concerned though that so many express the idea to find mate wealthy, strong, etc. but nobody is saying that either sex should prioritize righteousness or spirituality. In the eternal scheme of things I have a hard time believing that people after this mortal sphere wouldn't put righteousness and spirituality first.

I think that, in this church, the idea of spirituality is a given. But, of course, that can be faked for a while. I was really enthusiastic about going on another mission when I came home from my first (not that I am not still enthusiastic), and I recall talking about wanting to serve a mission after retirement. She was supportive of the idea, of course, but as soon as we were married she became very hostile to the idea. "It's unreasonable to expect me to leave my grandchildren, even for just a six month mission. You're making me mad by talking about that!"

When I am ready and able to look for a relationship, an immediate deal breaker will be either wanting to put me first or put her kids first. At different times a given priority will have a greater urgency, but I will put the Lord first, her second, and my children third; and I will not settle for anything less from her. The Lord must come first, and a spouse must be a higher priority than children.

So is it okay for men to put such demands and stipulations on a marriage but when women do it they are too picky and demanding?

If a man courted me like that it would frighten me away. I would be affraid that he would ditch me if I fell from perfection at any time of our relationship. I suggest as you look for a new wife, don't start out with your demands and state that you will not accept anything less, to a woman that puts a very high stress factor that your love and devotion is conditional and hey let's face it, women have rough days where they feel weak. Last thing she needs is to be fearful that she will not be good enough or fail your expectations.

Anyway, I think its great that you put the Lord first. I am sure you will be blessed for your devotion.

[brianj]

You know a lot of your comments are nice and wonderful. Thanks for commenting.

I am concerned though that so many express the idea to find mate wealthy, strong, etc. but nobody is saying that either sex should prioritize righteousness or spirituality. In the eternal scheme of things I have a hard time believing that people after this mortal sphere wouldn't put righteousness and spirituality first.

I think that, in this church, the idea of spirituality is a given. But, of course, that can be faked for a while. I was really enthusiastic about going on another mission when I came home from my first (not that I am not still enthusiastic), and I recall talking about wanting to serve a mission after retirement. She was supportive of the idea, of course, but as soon as we were married she became very hostile to the idea. "It's unreasonable to expect me to leave my grandchildren, even for just a six month mission. You're making me mad by talking about that!"

When I am ready and able to look for a relationship, an immediate deal breaker will be either wanting to put me first or put her kids first. At different times a given priority will have a greater urgency, but I will put the Lord first, her second, and my children third; and I will not settle for anything less from her. The Lord must come first, and a spouse must be a higher priority than children.

Your point is interesting. But if people assume spirituality is a given then they really aren't considering it. You can't really assume spirituality based on church membership. Like people assume that there's returned missionaries on every street corner and then don't consider quality of mission, quality of spirituality. If you discount spirituality then what's left is materialism mostly. So in the end without realizing it they might prioritize materialism without even realizing they cheated themselves.

I am sorry you went through that. It's not fun to be treated by someone in a way that's involving anything hostile.

I could have been much more clear. My point was not that spirituality is a given, but an expectation of spirituality is a given.

I have been working on family history work and don't have any female relatives to assist with temple work. Although I have had several women say they will participate in ordinance work for my ancestors, not one of my female ancestors has received an endowment in over a year. If a woman I'm interested in is willing to be a proxy for my ancestors, and actually does the work, she will win a lot of points in my book.

On the other hand, if she suddenly discovers that her temple recommend has been expired for three years it won't be appealing to me. If I accompany her to her ward and people don't know who she is, my confidence won't be inspired.