Who wins, Moore or Jones?

[David13]

It is a sickening and sad result. What has happened to Alabama. The cultural marxists and perverts take over. Sad indeed.

Cultural Marxists? Doug Jones is a moderate Democrat. Alabama prevented a pervert from gaining more power by not electing Roy Moore. Happy indeed.

Yes I suppose the false accusations did take a toll. I guess that's what politics in America is all about. Lies.

And you know accusations are false because ... you are psychic?

There is no such thing in this world today as a "moderate" democrat. I guess you mean full term abortion is "moderate". And that's the tip of the iceberg.

I know a political animal when I see one, and these FOURTY YEAR OLD ALLEGATIONS are about as politically motivated as they can get. Also, what do you think the lawyer is involved for? For peanuts? Or because they see dollar signs from the DNC, just for a start.

This isn't a snowflake forum, in case you hadn't noticed.
dc

[shadow]

So, you don't think the Prophet and Apostles give direction from God?

Sometimes they do - more often they give their own personal opinion, which is no different than anyone else's opinion. You should do what it takes to know the difference. God said not to murder the innocent - I'm following God on that. No prophet has given a revelation from God to the Church that says it's fine to murder babies "as long as" or "if".

Hey guys, the Church (First Presidency) has an official position. This was back in 1991.

Church Issues Statement on Abortion

The Church has issued a new statement on abortion. Dated Friday, 11 January 1991, it reads:

“In view of the widespread public interest in the issue of abortion, we reaffirm that The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints has consistently opposed elective abortion. More than a century ago, the First Presidency of the Church warned against this evil. We have repeatedly counseled people everywhere to turn from the devastating practice of abortion for personal or social convenience.

“The Church recognizes that there may be rare cases in which abortion may be justified—cases involving pregnancy by incest or rape; when the life or health of the woman is adjudged by competent medical authority to be in serious jeopardy; or when the fetus is known by competent medical authority to have severe defects that will not allow the baby to survive beyond birth. But these are not automatic reasons for abortion. Even in these cases, the couple should consider abortion only after consulting with each other, and their bishop, and receiving divine confirmation through prayer. The practice of elective abortion is fundamentally contrary to the Lord’s injunction, ‘Thou shalt not steal; neither commit adultery, nor kill, nor do anything like unto it.’ (D&C 59:6.) We urge all to preserve the sanctity of human life and thereby realize the happiness promised to those who keep the commandments of the Lord.

“The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints as an institution has not favored or opposed specific legislative proposals or public demonstrations concerning abortion.

“Inasmuch as this issue is likely to arise in all states in the United States of America and in many other nations of the world in which the Church is established, it is impractical for the Church to take a position on specific legislative proposals on this important subject.

“However, we continue to encourage our members as citizens to let their voices be heard in appropriate and legal ways that will evidence their belief in the sacredness of life.”

Yes, I think everyone is aware of this - you aren't sharing anything new. I disagree with them on this because I believe all human life in the womb is sacred and should be left to GOD as to whether the person should be born or not. A child conceived via rape is no less worthy of life than a child conceived by a happily married couple, etc. Pretty simple, really. Not sure why you feel the need to keep harping on it. You have your belief, I have mine - neither of us are going to change the other's mind.

There's actually nothing to disagree with them on this topic. They say no abortion unless Divine confirmation has been received. Many people claim the church teaches it's OK to have an abortion when clearly they have taught no such thing.

[Joel]

The Biggest Loser in the Alabama Election

It’s not Republicans or Democrats, but Christian witness.


No matter the outcome of today’s special election in Alabama for a coveted US Senate seat, there is already one loser: Christian faith. When it comes to either matters of life and death or personal commitments of the human heart, no one will believe a word we say, perhaps for a generation. Christianity’s integrity is severely tarnished.

The race between Republican candidate Roy Moore and Democratic candidate Doug Jones has only put an exclamation point on a problem that has been festering for a year and a half—ever since a core of strident conservative Christians began to cheer for Donald Trump without qualification and a chorus of other believers decried that support as immoral. The Christian leaders who have excused, ignored, or justified his unscrupulous behavior and his indecent rhetoric have only given credence to their critics who accuse them of hypocrisy. Meanwhile the easy willingness of moderate and progressive Christians to cast aspersions on their conservative brothers and sisters has made many wonder about our claim that Jesus Christ can bring diverse people together as no other can.

The Hypocrisy on the Left
From moderate and liberal brothers and sisters, conservatives have received swift and decisive condemnation. They call these conservatives idolaters for seeking after political power. They call them homophobes for wanting Christian bakers to legally follow their conscience. They call them racists and Islamophobes for wanting secure borders. These moderates and liberal evangelicals are so disturbed by the political beliefs of their brothers and sisters that many say they don’t even want to be associated with them anymore; they seem to view these brothers and sisters in Christ as tax collectors and sinners.

In general, we have witnessed few Christians among these critics taking the time and effort to understand the views of their conservative fellow believers or to delve into the social and political realities they might be coming from. Some secular analysts, who frankly acknowledge being on the Left, have been doing this admirably. UC Berkley sociologist Arlie Russell Hochschild’s Strangers in Their Own Land: Anger and Mourning on the American Right strives to understand Tea Party advocates in Louisiana, most of whom are evangelical Christians. And law professor Joan Williams’s White Working Class: Overcoming Class Cluelessness in America unpacks the class dimensions of much of our political divide. And then there is Jonathan Haidt’s The Righteous Mind: Why Good People Are Divided by Politics and Religion, which demonstrates the moral ground of advocates left and right. None of these writers could be mistaken for a conservative, but they each at least attempt to be charitable and fair-minded in trying to understand the views of those with whom they disagree. If only some leading evangelical progressive or moderate would do the same.

This is not to excuse some statements by conservative leaders that cannot be interpreted in any other way than as a slur against gays, Muslims, Mexicans, and others. Some conservatives are fearful beyond reason. Some conservatives clearly worship political power as much as they do Jesus Christ. But too often, we mistake the inarticulate groanings of certain foolish conservative leaders for the actual beliefs and behavior of the mass of evangelicals who vote for Donald Trump or Roy Moore.

When you actually talk to such supporters face to face, you often find more nuanced and reasoned political views, grounded in moral principles, combined with a ready willingness to condemn the immorality and verbal carelessness of these two men. These conservatives are of a view one can appreciate philosophically: Sometimes in a nation’s life, one must for prudential reasons cast one’s lot with a morally unsavory candidate. Sometimes it really is a choice between the lesser of two evils, and sometimes three. We can respect that while continuing to disagree with some of their prudential choices, as they disagree with ours.

Our concern here is with a cabal of noisy conservatives, whom the press has apparently (and unjustly) appointed as spokesmen for all conservatives. This group pretends that the choice for someone like Moore represents unalloyed godliness and refuses to unmistakably criticize immorality in other leaders they admire. To justify or ignore the moral failings of a politician because he champions your favored policies—well, that is to step onto the path of self-deception and hypocrisy, which according to Jesus, leads to no less place than hell (Matt. 23:15).

Of course, this charge of hypocrisy cuts both ways. It has applied equally well to progressive and moderate Christians, who have in the past turned a blind eye to the moral failings and moral bankruptcy of liberal candidates they support and who have decided, at best, to whisper truth to power lest they delegitimize their candidate or office holder. Clearly, there are moments on the Left in which partisans are too weak to resist the temptation to entrust themselves to the power politics of the moment instead of “to him who judges justly,” to whom “the nations are like a drop in a bucket … regarded as dust on the scales,” who “brings princes to naught and reduces the rulers of this world to nothing” (Isa. 40:15, 23).

Hypocrisy on the Right
As suggested above, some of the critiques by the Left and center (matched by a fair amount of critiques by leading conservatives, by the way), are hard to argue with. Hypocrisy is again the most salient charge.

As recently as 2011, PRRI found that only 30 percent of white evangelicals believed “an elected official who commits an immoral act in their personal life can still behave ethically and fulfill their duties in their public and professional life.” But by late 2016, when Donald Trump was running for president, that number had risen sharply to 72 percent—the biggest shift of any US religious group.

The reason for the flip is not hard to discern. David Brody, a correspondent for the Christian Broadcasting Network, has noted the desperation and urgency felt throughout much of conservative Christianity. “The way evangelicals see the world, the culture is not only slipping away—it’s slipping away in all caps, with four exclamation points after that. It’s going to you-know-what in a handbasket.” The logic is then inexorable: “Where does that leave evangelicals? It leaves them with a choice. Do they sacrifice a little bit of that ethical guideline they’ve used in the past in exchange for what they believe is saving the culture?”

Apparently yes. This is precisely why, when serious and substantial allegations of sexual abuse of minors were made against Roy Moore, many doubled down on their support for him. Within days of this news story in The Washington Post, polls indicated that not only would 57 percent of evangelicals continue to support him, another 37 percent said they were now more likely to vote for him.

As some have pointed out, many conservative Christians simply don’t believe the many news accounts and chalk it up to a secular, liberal, Democratic conspiracy against Moore. Others acknowledge that while the charges may be true, they are minor in nature or happened so long ago they don’t matter today. Some are simply Machiavellian, saying they are not electing Mother Teresa but a man who can look out for the interests of conservative Christians.

What is going on here? Among other things, there is this: Many conservatives feel marginalized by the culture and remember the days when a Judeo-Christian morality didn’t need explaining or defending. They know that a people without a vision of sound moral grounding will perish. They don’t want to perish, and to give them credit, they don’t want this nation to perish. They really do believe that this is a matter of life and death. To them, our choices are simple and stark: devilry or godliness.

They are right, of course, about moral decline in America. Yes, there are all sorts of qualifications and nuances to make, and our culture, in fact, champions many biblical values (the recent #MeToo campaign and the fight against racism are but two examples). But there is no question that from a biblical perspective, our nation has lost its moorings. Nearly everyone does what is right in his own eyes, which results in moral, psychological, and social suffering unheard of in our history. The gap between rich and poor, the number of abortions and fatherless children, the steady rise of drug addiction, the increasing sympathy with euthanasia—these are but a few indicators that something is deeply wrong.

The problem with many Christian conservatives is this: They believe they can help the country become godly again by electing people whose godliness is seriously questioned by the very people they want to influence.

They have forgotten that old evangelical idea (and, before that, a Jewish idea) of putting a “hedge around the law.” That refers to behavior that is not wrong in itself but is practiced so as to not give even a hint of wrongdoing. It is not immoral to drink alcohol as such, but many Christians refuse to do so because they recognize that drinking alcohol may impair their judgment about matters that in fact are moral. When it comes to choosing leaders and shaping our life together, we’ve rightly followed this biblical teaching: “Abstain from all appearance of evil” (1 Thess. 5:22, KJV).

This attitude has sometimes nurtured legalism and self-righteousness, to be sure, but it has also helped us to lead lives that are often respected by unbelievers, even when they don’t agree with our choices. We have taken seriously these words of the apostle Peter: “Live such good lives among the pagans that, though they accuse you of doing wrong, they may see your good deeds and glorify God on the day he visits us.” (1 Pet. 2:12).

When a public Christian is accused of some immorality, the honorable and moral thing to do has been to take a leave of absence until the matter of settled. This is precisely what Moore, who sees himself as a godly and moral candidate, has refused to do.

But what if this is merely a political ploy to remove a candidate from running for office, and what if it’s all a lie in the end? What if our godly candidate is merely being persecuted and harassed (by “the powerful Obama-Clinton Machine,” as Moore put it), and this is further evidence we’re not in just a political battle but a spiritual one (as Moore has repeatedly claimed)?

Well, how does the Bible say we fight spiritual battles when, for instance, people “falsely say all kinds of evil against you” (Matt. 5:11)?

By turning the other cheek (Matt. 5:39).

By forgiving 7 times 70 (Matt. 18:22, KJV).

By doing good to our enemies (Matt. 5:43–48).

If we’re really anxious to help the nation become more godly, we have to act godly even when we think we are unfairly judged, even when the stakes are at their highest:

But if you suffer for doing good and you endure it, this is commendable before God. To this you were called, because Christ suffered for you, leaving you an example, that you should follow in his steps.

“He committed no sin, and no deceit was found in his mouth.”

When they hurled their insults at him, he did not retaliate; when he suffered, he made no threats. Instead, he entrusted himself to him who judges justly. (1 Pet. 2:20–23)

Some have argued along these lines: We have the best chance in decades of reversing Roe v. Wade, protecting the religious liberty of the church, and reversing unjust and immoral laws! Let’s say for the sake of argument that such a political agenda could be enacted in the next few years by the means chosen—electing and supporting officials whose behavior is widely viewed as immoral. Will our political enemies be convinced of the righteousness of our moral agenda? Or will they think we are hypocrites who are using political power to force our wills on others? Will they more deeply respect us, or will they more deeply resent us and disbelieve our faith?

When combative conservative Christians refuse to suffer patiently in the public square, retaliate when insults are hurled at them, and do not refrain from the appearance of evil, they sabotage not only their political cause but the cause they care about the most: the gospel of Jesus Christ.

Resisting the Temptations of Political Life
What events of the last year and a half have shown once again is that when Christians immerse themselves in politics as Christians, for what they determine are Christian causes, touting their version of biblical morality in the public square—they will sooner or later (and often sooner) begin to compromise the very principles they champion and do so to such a degree that it blemishes the very faith they are most anxious to promote. And one of the biggest blemishes—for it is an open refutation of Jesus’ prayer that we be one—is when we start divorcing one another over politics. Jesus said it is our unity in him that will, more than anything, help the world see “that you [Father] have sent me and have loved them even as you have loved me” (John 17:23). No wonder few believe much of anything we say anymore.

The way forward is unclear. For to love one’s neighbor in a democratic society means that Christians must participate in the public square to seek the common good. We cannot forsake our political duty, and that duty will lead believers in different directions. It’s just that when we do engage in politics, we so often end up doing and saying things that make us sound and act like we don’t care about the very values we champion. Perhaps the first step is for Christians Left and Right, when they stand up to champion a cause, to stop saying “Thus says the Lord” and “Lord, I thank you that you have not made me like these other Christians,” but frame their politics with, “Lord, have mercy on me a sinner.”

Mark Galli is editor in chief of Christianity Today.

[Tree]

Well ---- they threw out the fraudulent votes and Moore is ahead as of today , moreover they still need to count the military votes.

[Arenera]

Well ---- they threw out the fraudulent votes and Moore is ahead as of today , moreover they still need to count the military votes.

Where is this information coming from? Fake news?

[Ezra]

Well ---- they threw out the fraudulent votes and Moore is ahead as of today , moreover they still need to count the military votes.

Where is this information coming from? Fake news?

What news is actually rear and accurate these day?

6 people own almost all of the news and media outlets.

They have an agenda. Don’t be fooled.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.busine ... ica-2012-6

It’s fake.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=1gqYcQTpq_c

[Arenera]

Well ---- they threw out the fraudulent votes and Moore is ahead as of today , moreover they still need to count the military votes.

Where is this information coming from? Fake news?

What news is actually rear and accurate these day?

6 people own almost all of the news and media outlets.

They have an agenda. Don’t be fooled.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.busine ... ica-2012-6

It’s fake.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=1gqYcQTpq_c

If you are an Alex Jones follower, everything is a conspiracy.

Moore lost to Jones. Moore is a sore loser, he can't believe his harassment of women 40 years ago came back to haunt him.

[Fiannan]

... he can't believe his harassment of women 40 years ago came back to haunt him.

What did he do exactly, did he drug and rape them like they do in Hollywood? What is the worse thing he is accused of?

[Ezra]

Well ---- they threw out the fraudulent votes and Moore is ahead as of today , moreover they still need to count the military votes.

Where is this information coming from? Fake news?

What news is actually rear and accurate these day?

6 people own almost all of the news and media outlets.

They have an agenda. Don’t be fooled.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.busine ... ica-2012-6

It’s fake.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=1gqYcQTpq_c

If you are an Alex Jones follower, everything is a conspiracy.

Moore lost to Jones. Moore is a sore loser, he can't believe his harassment of women 40 years ago came back to haunt him.

I can’t stand Alex Jones.

Facts are facts. This is not some crazy conspiracy. It’s facts that are easy to lookup.

That election was just like dump vs killary. Crap vs crap. Either side we loose. Same old horse and pony show that the media gets the 2 sides of the same coin to argue over.

[Arenera]

Where is this information coming from? Fake news?

What news is actually rear and accurate these day?

6 people own almost all of the news and media outlets.

They have an agenda. Don’t be fooled.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.busine ... ica-2012-6

It’s fake.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=1gqYcQTpq_c

If you are an Alex Jones follower, everything is a conspiracy.

Moore lost to Jones. Moore is a sore loser, he can't believe his harassment of women 40 years ago came back to haunt him.

I can’t stand Alex Jones.

Facts are facts. This is not some crazy conspiracy. It’s facts that are easy to lookup.

That election was just like dump vs killary. Crap vs crap. Either side we loose. Same old horse and pony show that the media gets the 2 sides of the same coin to argue over.

What facts are easy to look up? Who was the Constitutionalist to vote for? Where are these good people that you are always talking about?

Tree said Moore was ahead. Where is that? Jones won.

[lundbaek]

From Pastor Chuck Baldwin 12/14/17

Mitch McConnell and his fellow Republican swamp creatures spent over $30 million trying to defeat Judge Moore in that primary election. Let that sink in: $30 million. President Donald Trump and Vice President Mike Pence went to Alabama and campaigned against Judge Moore. The entire Republican leadership campaigned against Judge Moore. In spite of that Herculean effort by the Republican swamp creatures, Moore WON.

Of course, this past Tuesday, Judge Moore lost the general election. However, it was NOT the unfounded accusations of sexual impropriety that sunk Judge Moore; it was the Republican Party in Washington, D.C. If we really knew the truth, we might learn that Mitch McConnell and Company were the ones responsible for instigating the Washington Post story about Judge Moore’s alleged sexual misconduct.

The accusations against Judge Moore surfaced almost immediately after his primary election victory, and the entire Republican establishment turned against him instantly. From Mitch McConnell to Paul Ryan to John McCain to Lindsey Graham to Steve Daines to Mitt Romney to Ted Cruz to Richard Shelby: they all denounced Judge Moore. Furthermore, until the final week of the campaign, the National Republican Party withheld funding from Roy’s race, leaving Judge Moore financially unable to compete.

In addition, after campaigning ferociously against Judge Moore in the primary (but promising that he would “campaign like hell” for him if he won), President Trump remained mute on the sidelines until a week before the general election. Even then, he did not campaign for Judge Moore in the State of Alabama (as both he and Vice President Pence had done in support of Luther Strange during the primary election), but went to the Florida Panhandle and urged Alabamians to vote for Moore.

Add a collaborating establishment media that carried the accusations against Judge Moore incessantly—night and day—and millions of dollars from liberals all over the country who smelled blood in Alabama pouring into Democrat Doug Jones’ campaign coffers, and an establishment Republican-backed last-minute write-in campaign against Judge Moore (led by Alabama Republican Senator Richard Shelby), and it was just too much for Judge Moore to overcome. Even still, he lost by only less than 2% of the vote. An amazing feat!

But make no mistake about this fact: it was the Republican swamp (of which Donald Trump is a part) that sunk Judge Roy Moore.

Republicans in DC would rather give a senate seat to the Democrats than let a genuine independent-minded constitutionalist Republican win the election. Republican strategists plan to run another establishment toady against Doug Jones in 2020, thinking they will win that election in the deep crimson State of Alabama. They consider having a Democrat take the seat for only two years to be better than having to endure a committed constitutionalist Republican for maybe fourteen years.

People need to wake up to the reality that the National Republican Party is as much an enemy to liberty and constitutional government as the Democrat Party—perhaps a GREATER enemy, because they wear the cloak of conservatism. But they are wolves in sheep’s clothing.

Plus, with a voter turnout of around 38%, I wonder how many Christians in Alabama stayed home from the polls and left Judge Moore hanging out to dry.

I well remember when I was standing with Judge Moore in his Ten Commandment fights just how few pastors bothered to help him. I’m telling you, the overall number of pastors who came to Roy’s assistance in those days was dismally small.

During the peak of Roy’s Ten Commandments fight, I invited the Judge to come and speak to the pastors in my town (located about 150 miles from Montgomery). I invited every pro-life, “conservative,” and evangelical pastor in the area to attend. I offered to pay for a steak dinner for two (the pastor and his wife or an associate) in one of the nicest restaurants in town in order for them to come meet and hear Judge Moore. To give you an idea of how many pastors I’m talking about, there are over 150 Southern Baptist churches alone in that metro area. Add all kinds of other Baptists, Methodists, Presbyterians, Charismatics, Assemblies of God, Lutherans, etc., and the number was several hundred. Guess how many showed up? A little over twenty. It was embarrassing.

I guarantee you that a host of pastors and churches in Alabama did absolutely NOTHING to help Judge Moore win the election last Tuesday.

So, the swamp claimed another victim. This does not bode well for anti-establishment GOP candidates in the future. The precedent (and playbook) has been set: to defeat a constitutionalist outsider (if the candidate is popular and a man), all you must do is find (or pay) a few women (or even men) to make scurrilous sexual allegations against him so the swamp creatures in the media can regurgitate the accusations day and night, and you can be guaranteed that the National Republican Party will throw him to the wolves and let the liberal Democrat walk away with a victory.

Make no mistake about it: Roy Moore was targeted for destruction by the establishment political machines of both parties because he could not be controlled—not in the least little bit. And being able to be controlled is MUCH more important to DC insiders than being a Republican or Democrat or being a “conservative” or “liberal.”

Plus, it didn’t help matters that Roy is an outspoken Christian—perhaps the most well-known and admired Christian politician in America. The swamp didn’t just defeat an establishment outsider’s political campaign; it burned a disciple of Christ at the stake.

[Ezra]

What news is actually rear and accurate these day?

6 people own almost all of the news and media outlets.

They have an agenda. Don’t be fooled.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.busine ... ica-2012-6

It’s fake.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=1gqYcQTpq_c

If you are an Alex Jones follower, everything is a conspiracy.

Moore lost to Jones. Moore is a sore loser, he can't believe his harassment of women 40 years ago came back to haunt him.

I can’t stand Alex Jones.

Facts are facts. This is not some crazy conspiracy. It’s facts that are easy to lookup.

That election was just like dump vs killary. Crap vs crap. Either side we loose. Same old horse and pony show that the media gets the 2 sides of the same coin to argue over.

What facts are easy to look up? Who was the Constitutionalist to vote for? Where are these good people that you are always talking about?

Tree said Moore was ahead. Where is that? Jones won.

My comment was on that all news is fake. Controlled by a very small group that is completely bias and have an agenda.

(You)Changed the subject to Alex Jones to which I said I couldn’t stand and went back to the topic of how fake the news is and that it’s easy to look up the facts on who owns and controls almost all media.

(You) once again change the topic.

I’m beginning to wonder if you have a.d.d or possibly bipolar.
That could be why you have such a hard time understanding the simple truths people are trying to explain to you.

I don’t know who all was running in Alabama I live in Oregon so don’t know if there was a better choice.

Where are all the good people I talk about. Obviously you don’t spent time around that crowd or you would know. There are many lds and none lds who are really good men and women who are constitutional.

Lundbaek just quoted one. Chuck Baldwin. A poll I read not long ago had Conservatives as the majority in the USA voting population. Like any group of people some are stronger in those constitutional beliefs then others.

If you had to claim a political group or ideology that you belong to what would it be?

[Fiannan]

Tree said Moore was ahead. Where is that? Jones won.

Question: Are you happy about the outcome? Also, I will ask again, what is the worse thing Moore was accused of? What I mean is, the specific action.

[Arenera]

Tree said Moore was ahead. Where is that? Jones won.

Question: Are you happy about the outcome? Also, I will ask again, what is the worse thing Moore was accused of? What I mean is, the specific action.

14 year old girl.

[Arenera]

If you had to claim a political group or ideology that you belong to what would it be?

I think I understand your political position now, of which I have no problem. As I have analyzed, it is a 1% scenario because people don't support it.

I have voted for Republicans, Democrats, Independents, and write-ins.

I'm starting to think that the secret combination is business. The sky scraper temples. Trump really embodies this.

The stupid tax reform is just going to make big business happier.

This bill, despite the glossy, small business-friendly language being used to sell it, would actually do more to widen the tax advantage gap between large businesses and small ones than our present -- and already tilted tax code -- does. This bill does just that, thanks to the change from a worldwide tax system, which requires US companies to pay Uncle Sam taxes on all their profits, regardless of where the income is earned, to something called a territorial one, under which companies don't owe taxes to their own governments on income they make offshore.
This change, if enacted, would encourage wealthy businesses to learn how to go offshore to gain a more favorable tax rate than is available within our borders -- giving them a significant financial and competitive advantage over our neighborhood mom and pops trying to stay afloat onshore.

What a bunch of idiots.

[Fiannan]

Tree said Moore was ahead. Where is that? Jones won.

Question: Are you happy about the outcome? Also, I will ask again, what is the worse thing Moore was accused of? What I mean is, the specific action.

14 year old girl.

Tell me what he is accused of doing with her.

[gardener4life]

And because Moore "might" have been guilty of asking a 16 year old out on a date 30+ years ago, Alabama now has a senator who believes it's perfectly fine, legal, and moral to butcher a living baby even as it has been completely birthed at 9 months gestation - as long as a toe remains inside the mother. Because as long as a toe is still inside the mother, it's not a human baby - it's just a blob of tissue that can be ripped to shreds and thrown in the furnace (Molech, anyone?). But once that final toe has emerged from the mother's body, well, then it's a living human being worthy of protection and life, according to the insanity of Jones. What a supreme load of Satanic crap. Almost 60% of Alabama citizens claim to be against abortion being legal in their state - yet they just elected the most heinous pro-abortion person available as their senator. And now they will reap what they have sown.

I certainly don't like sex crimes.

But what is disturbing to me is that its become a norm to accuse an opposing party of sexual misconduct. Not just Trump but others are having this happen to them. So the idea that there has been a string of accusing a politician of sex crimes "ALWAYS" right before an election is a huge problem. We'll never really know if he would have been a good candidate or not and none of us really know. But having 'sex crime accusation' always right before an election takes place how can you really 100% believe it? None of these accusations are being aired after an election it seems.

And there's really no defense for having your character taken down from a sex crime accusation. It's a guarantee that everyone will want you dead and gone with no defense. So from the standpoint of evil, I can see why it would be the easiest thing to win to say hey this person raped or molested little girls right before they want a big win.

And nobody is really voicing it with this point of view.

If he's guilty, why did it only come out now and not at some other time?

[Ezra]

If you had to claim a political group or ideology that you belong to what would it be?

I think I understand your political position now, of which I have no problem. As I have analyzed, it is a 1% scenario because people don't support it.

I have voted for Republicans, Democrats, Independents, and write-ins.

I'm starting to think that the secret combination is business. The sky scraper temples. Trump really embodies this.

The stupid tax reform is just going to make big business happier.

This bill, despite the glossy, small business-friendly language being used to sell it, would actually do more to widen the tax advantage gap between large businesses and small ones than our present -- and already tilted tax code -- does. This bill does just that, thanks to the change from a worldwide tax system, which requires US companies to pay Uncle Sam taxes on all their profits, regardless of where the income is earned, to something called a territorial one, under which companies don't owe taxes to their own governments on income they make offshore.
This change, if enacted, would encourage wealthy businesses to learn how to go offshore to gain a more favorable tax rate than is available within our borders -- giving them a significant financial and competitive advantage over our neighborhood mom and pops trying to stay afloat onshore.

What a bunch of idiots.

Your analysis of 1% is looney because it’s not accurate.

As explained befor constitutionality doesn’t equal who voted for a constitution party candidate. Constitutionality is morality.

People who adhere to constitutional principles are people who are truly moral. Because they refuse to transgress on their neighbors god given liberty’s agency and property. That is unless there neighbors are using their liberty and agency to transgress on others. It is the golden rule.

I have no right to steal from my neighbors. I have no right to at gun point demand my neighbors pay for services i want them to pay for. Like health care or schooling or retirement or food.

I have no right to use government to do those things either. It would make a slave of my neighbors who at that point has no real say in their own god given right of their labor and production of that labor.

It is immoral.

Way more then 1% agree that it’s immoral to steal from others through the government.

The question is do you think it’s ok to use government to steal from your fellow men?

Or are you ok with the theft and take part in the spoils?

[Arenera]

If you had to claim a political group or ideology that you belong to what would it be?

I think I understand your political position now, of which I have no problem. As I have analyzed, it is a 1% scenario because people don't support it.

I have voted for Republicans, Democrats, Independents, and write-ins.

I'm starting to think that the secret combination is business. The sky scraper temples. Trump really embodies this.

The stupid tax reform is just going to make big business happier.

This bill, despite the glossy, small business-friendly language being used to sell it, would actually do more to widen the tax advantage gap between large businesses and small ones than our present -- and already tilted tax code -- does. This bill does just that, thanks to the change from a worldwide tax system, which requires US companies to pay Uncle Sam taxes on all their profits, regardless of where the income is earned, to something called a territorial one, under which companies don't owe taxes to their own governments on income they make offshore.
This change, if enacted, would encourage wealthy businesses to learn how to go offshore to gain a more favorable tax rate than is available within our borders -- giving them a significant financial and competitive advantage over our neighborhood mom and pops trying to stay afloat onshore.

What a bunch of idiots.

Your analysis of 1% is looney because it’s not accurate.

As explained befor constitutionality doesn’t equal who voted for a constitution party candidate. Constitutionality is morality.

People who adhere to constitutional principles are people who are truly moral. Because they refuse to transgress on their neighbors god given liberty’s agency and property. That is unless there neighbors are using their liberty and agency to transgress on others. It is the golden rule.

I have no right to steal from my neighbors. I have no right to at gun point demand my neighbors pay for services i want them to pay for. Like health care or schooling or retirement or food.

I have no right to use government to do those things either. It would make a slave of my neighbors who at that point has no real say in their own god given right of their labor and production of that labor.

It is immoral.

Way more then 1% agree that it’s immoral to steal from others through the government.

The question is do you think it’s ok to use government to steal from your fellow men?

Or are you ok with the theft and take part in the spoils?

You are stuck on your soapbox.

Let me know when the Federal Reserve is changed. Until then, you are at 1%.

[Fiannan]

You are stuck on your soapbox.

You have not answered him. Also, I still want to know from you what Moore was accused of doing. Do you even know?

[gardener4life]

The comment about taxing companies that are sheltering abroad is an interesting point. It is a very valid concern.

But to say it will force them to do so is backwards and force them to do it more I think is catering to their whims and a false argument. Rather, they've noticed that corporations are recently acting like THEY are the COUNTRY, rather than the USA being the country! It's also interesting that before this even came up I was talking to my dad about this, how these corporations gets o big and spread out in several countries, trying to be bigger than the country. They then play off the legal systems of those countries. Corporations can't be allowed to think of themselves as bigger than their sponsored countries. That creates neglect of the consumer and theft from trust of consumers.

There has to be some kind of legal protection to promote keeping a corporation to keep jobs in the countries that grew their companies. The idea of taxing their foreign income is one way of doing so. It could even be worded to be lenient where jobs and job creation are favored at home. You would have to have tariffs reinstated though to prevent a total loss of infrastructure that has been growing since NAFTA and GATT where put in place by the Clingtons. (If you don't have an understanding of how NAFTA and GATT have been bleeding away our jobs and middle class slowly but strongly over the last 20 years then this whole argument isn't going to make sense. But the fact is NAFTA and GATT have bled away jobs and middle class income from not only America, but Japan, and other countries also for years.) This idea of taxing corporation income abroad actually is fair. An American citizen working abroad would have his income taxed abroad, so why should corporations have a free pass on this and think they don't have to follow the rules? And other countries citizens would also be taxed the same too working abroad not just Americans.

There's also no law that says hey if a corporation makes 80% of its money in say the US or Canada to protect the consumers to keep that money there! What's going on is that they are taking that money all out from WHERE it was it was EARNED and then diverting it almost entirely to some other places, neglecting the infrastructure of those countries the wealth came from! This is serious gross misconduct! Obviously they should be able to do some but not to the neglect of jobs and infrastructure of the host countries that grew that country up and the trust of the consumers that built it up from nothing! Yet this is allowed to happen. So now if we helped provide the growth for that company they can steal that entirely and take it away and put it somewhere else where people did not do anything to exercise trust or faith in it.

I would say to you again that the taxing of corporations abroad is a response to them stealing away wealth from where it was grown rather than causing it. And very few people take into account the young people in our country between the ages of 20 to mid 30s very few of them have any kind of stability like their fathers had. It was all stolen away and put in other countries! The vast majority of them are working part time or low income jobs, none of which can support a family. And they can't all be doctors, lawyers, and accountants. This is happening right now where an entire generation has had their future robbed from them and over half of them are living with their parents with no end in sight of it. Its even gotten to the point of people 'selling' the idea on the internet of how to live in your car because they don't want to have an empty bank account all the time from all of it only going to rent! And what's interesting too is that these are educated normal people, not people on drugs, etc.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RINuXucJHVA

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QmcyEN5JX8E

[Ezra]

If you had to claim a political group or ideology that you belong to what would it be?

I think I understand your political position now, of which I have no problem. As I have analyzed, it is a 1% scenario because people don't support it.

I have voted for Republicans, Democrats, Independents, and write-ins.

I'm starting to think that the secret combination is business. The sky scraper temples. Trump really embodies this.

The stupid tax reform is just going to make big business happier.

This bill, despite the glossy, small business-friendly language being used to sell it, would actually do more to widen the tax advantage gap between large businesses and small ones than our present -- and already tilted tax code -- does. This bill does just that, thanks to the change from a worldwide tax system, which requires US companies to pay Uncle Sam taxes on all their profits, regardless of where the income is earned, to something called a territorial one, under which companies don't owe taxes to their own governments on income they make offshore.
This change, if enacted, would encourage wealthy businesses to learn how to go offshore to gain a more favorable tax rate than is available within our borders -- giving them a significant financial and competitive advantage over our neighborhood mom and pops trying to stay afloat onshore.

What a bunch of idiots.

Your analysis of 1% is looney because it’s not accurate.

As explained befor constitutionality doesn’t equal who voted for a constitution party candidate. Constitutionality is morality.

People who adhere to constitutional principles are people who are truly moral. Because they refuse to transgress on their neighbors god given liberty’s agency and property. That is unless there neighbors are using their liberty and agency to transgress on others. It is the golden rule.

I have no right to steal from my neighbors. I have no right to at gun point demand my neighbors pay for services i want them to pay for. Like health care or schooling or retirement or food.

I have no right to use government to do those things either. It would make a slave of my neighbors who at that point has no real say in their own god given right of their labor and production of that labor.

It is immoral.

Way more then 1% agree that it’s immoral to steal from others through the government.

The question is do you think it’s ok to use government to steal from your fellow men?

Or are you ok with the theft and take part in the spoils?

You are stuck on your soapbox.

Let me know when the Federal Reserve is changed. Until then, you are at 1%.

Of coarse you wouldn’t know this but John Taylor was prophet during 1914 and 1915 when the federal reserve was being formed. He chastised the saints at that time for allowing such a attack on our constitutional freedoms to get passed. And advised we take back the powers lost at that time in conference.

People like you ignore the prophet. No surprise you do the same now.

How rich are the people who own the federal reserve? It’s a private bank you know.

What job do they do?

Which would you rather have a dollar pre 1915 or now??? Do you even know the difference???

Joseph Fielding Smith.

Satan has control now. No matter where you look, he is in control, even in our own land. He is guiding the governments as far as the Lord will permit him. That is why there is so much strife, turmoil, and confusion all
over the earth. One master mind is governing the nations. It is not the president of the United States; it is
not Hitler; it is not Mussolini; it is not the king or government of England or any other land; it is Satan
himself.
Joseph Fielding Smith, Doctrines of Salvation Vol I

The shoe fits. It’s not the president of the USA that is in control. It’s who has control of the money. The money mind you of almost the entire world.

Awake to your awful situation.

Be part of gods side in this battle.

How many made it to the tree of life? How many were in their large spacious building mocking and laughing??

1% tree of life.?
99% large and spacious buildings.?

2 Nephi 28:
13 They rob the poor because of their fine sanctuaries; they rob the poor because of their fine clothing; and they persecute the meek and the poor in heart, because in their pride they are puffed up.
14 They wear stiff necks and high heads; yea, and because of pride, and wickedness, and abominations, and whoredoms, they have all gone astray save it be a few, who are the humble followers of Christ; nevertheless, they are led, that in many instances they do err because they are taught by the precepts of men.

[Fiannan]

When speaking of Lehi's vision maybe we could add to it. You see, the people on the righteous path are actively engaging in reaching a destination, while the people in the tower or "great and spacious building" (media, rich people, celebrities, etc.) are mocking them. However, would it not be true that most people would not be represented in the vision at all? It's like this, a dog is happy if it gets plenty too eat, has a place to go to the bathroom, have toys to play with and gets affection. Yes, it will feel a bond with you and be loyal but your dog does not think about high spiritual ideals or concepts of personal liberty and expansion of knowledge. Probably 90% + of human beings are no more advanced than a dog would be as this too is the extent of their progression - in fact, many people are less loyal and affectionate than a dog would be. So while the elite scorn the people trying to advance, and the righteous advance as best as they can, the majority of the rest of the people are fat and plopped down in front of their TVs.

[wargames83]

It most certainly is not a smear. He has no problem with butchering babies at 9 months gestation - he will vote to continue the murders, and take the money from pro-life Alabama citizens to pay for it - but that was their choice to put him in office - hope they're happy with it. There is zero in any of his statements, including the one you posted, that refutes what I said. Romney is just as evil as Jones.

What about "Having said that, the law for decades has been that late-term procedures are generally restricted except in the case of medical necessity," doesn't refute what you said? Unless giving birth would kill the mother according to the doctor, a 9 month abortion is illegal and he wants to keep it that way.

[wargames83]

It is a sickening and sad result. What has happened to Alabama. The cultural marxists and perverts take over. Sad indeed.

Cultural Marxists? Doug Jones is a moderate Democrat. Alabama prevented a pervert from gaining more power by not electing Roy Moore. Happy indeed.

Yes I suppose the false accusations did take a toll. I guess that's what politics in America is all about. Lies.

And you know accusations are false because ... you are psychic?

There is no such thing in this world today as a "moderate" democrat. I guess you mean full term abortion is "moderate". And that's the tip of the iceberg.

The only full term abortion allowed in Alabama is when it is medically necessary. I guess you would want the woman to be forced to give birth even if it kills her. I would consider that position extreme. Doug Jones has said he doesn't want to raise taxes, and that he supports the second amendment.

This isn't a snowflake forum, in case you hadn't noticed.
dc

It is not a right-wing echo chamber either. This board does have a slight and it seems that to a lot of you guys anybody to the left of Ted Cruz might as well be a commie. On the other hand there are a few of us here with a different perspective.