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[Ezra]

40% gun ownership in the USA.

[skmo]

40% gun ownership in the USA.

And I believe ownership among U.S. LDS citizens is higher still, and likely the people on this forum may have an even higher percentage.

[Ezra]

Lds people have more guns then kids. At least the ones I know do.

[gclayjr]

One of my sons has both a concealed carry permit and a selection of Guns,

As for me I have just 2 guns, a 12 Ga pump and .357. Pennsylvania, like Utah, is an open carry state. That is you don't need a permit if you carry the gun openly (like using a cowboy holster). My thinking is that if things get bad enough that I feel a need to carry a gun, I guess I will want everybody to know it,

Maybe that may prevent me from actually having to use it.

Regards,

George Clay

[iWriteStuff]

True story: several years ago at a gun show, I overheard several gun enthusiasts drift into the subject of Religion. The comment was made that "Mormons love guns and food storage. So the trick is to take them out first. Then you'll have all the food you could want and even more guns." I've been a bit careful about advertising my hobbies and religion around other gun enthusiasts now.

But yes, we love our guns and food storage. Bring on the tribulations! We'll see who survives better

[David13]

One of my sons has both a concealed carry permit and a selection of Guns,

As for me I have just 2 guns, a 12 Ga pump and .357. Pennsylvania, like Utah, is an open carry state. That is you don't need a permit if you carry the gun openly (like using a cowboy holster). My thinking is that if things get bad enough that I feel a need to carry a gun, I guess I will want everybody to know it,

Maybe that may prevent me from actually having to use it.

Regards,

George Clay

GC, yes Utah is open carry, but not loaded unless you have a permit. Not loaded means none in the chamber or ... well, I was going to say slide not racked, but ... well yes, that should be, but maybe, as sometimes it has to be one or two steps or actions, in some states, maybe Utah is one step away from ready to fire, unless you have a carry permit.
I don't know about PA.
Utah is shall issue. And only a very basic firearms familiarity for the issue. And it must be accepted or rejected within 60 days, so no long waits. Cost? $57, and as little as $40 for the class.
I was looking at Texas and some other states, extensive course, target qualification, etc. None of that for Utah.
dc

[RAB]

Maybe and maybe.

[gradles21]

I'm getting my concealed carry permit on the 19th but I don't know when I'll get a gun.

If you're new to handguns then I would suggest also taking an additional handgun course where they actually take you on the range and you can get a feel for what kind of gun you want to buy. The concealed carry course is pretty much just a 4/hr class while sitting at a desk the whole time.

[mirkwood]

guns scare me

[scottja]

Concealed means concealed means concealed.

[Ezra]

guns scare me

That’s why the are effective at stopping people from doing bad things.

[David13]

To carry, or not to carry, that is the question.
Whether tis nobler in the mind to suffer the slings and arrows of thy enemies, or to retaliate with deadly force.
Or to take arms against a sea of diverse evil ...
Or to sleep on it.
Etc.
dc

[JK4Woods]

guns scare me

Guns should not scare anyone more than a can of hornet spray, an electric drill, a Bosch miter saw, or hedge clippers gardeners use.

Any of these tools are quite benign, yet highly useful when used by a person who knows what they are doing.

(Look at all the home improvement shows on HGTV. They all start with clutzy hosts, who by the end of the third season are doing a bunch of the work themselves).

What I mean is experience and practice can benefit anyone at becoming adept at playing a piano, a guitar, writing short stories or putting five shots within a 2" circle at thirty feet.

Guns are merely a tool that levels the playing field.

All they do is project a certain amount of power beyond the operator.

It evens out a disadvantage one might have when being faced by three hooligans in a dark parking structure.... or by a small frame lady against a 225 lb abusive man intent to do harm.

Go to an indoor gun range, pay the $45 and try out several of the styles of guns they have... revolvers (my son's favorite) to semi-auto pistols.
Then go home and think about it.... could you become comfortable shooting a gun? Is it so hard to learn the care and safe keeping of a pistol?
Would you be embarrassed walking into a Walmart, or Big 5, or Sportsman Warehouse and buy a box of 50 bullets for $25?

Owning and driving a car, bicycle, motorcycle, hammer, or string trimmer, is way more dangerous, accident prone and lethal than a gun.

Owning a gun is not nearly so risky as going boating and not fastening the life jacket straps.

Bottom line... When you need a gun... you'll wish you had sold grandma's baby grand piano and bought a shotgun and ten boxes of shells.

Just watch what happens to even the best of people when the stock market crashes, lights go out for ten days, earthquake closes natural gas lines and highways so the shelves don't get re-stocked or a pandemic locks people into self isolation for three months at a time. When these circumstances come along in these last days, don't count on the Police, Security Guards, or your cousin over in the next county to protect you.

Much better to store a Mossberg 12 gauge a up in the attic, and boxes of shells behind your sock drawer in that eventuality than be caught defenseless.

Besides, when you clamor for security from others, you are really putting others at risk for your defense and protection. How do you show gratitude to others who are willing to defend you, maybe at the peril of their own life?

[chicklet005]

I wish I have.

[nancyvinci92]

Don't have it. Don't need it

[David13]

Don't have it. Don't need it

It's better to have it and not need it, rather than need it and not have it.

Read the Book of Mormon.
Specifically Alma 43: 45-47.
When the time comes what will you do? Falter in your duty?
dc

[nancyvinci92]

Don't have it. Don't need it

It's better to have it and not need it, rather than need it and not have it.

Point taken. It's the wiser option.

[David13]

I have a Louisville Slugger baseball bat as my defense weapon and at 6 foot 5 280 pounds I can get a good swing in.

Do you know what the 21 foot rule has to do with?
What can you hit with your baseball bat at 21 feet?
dc

[David13]

I have a Louisville Slugger baseball bat as my defense weapon and at 6 foot 5 280 pounds I can get a good swing in.

Do you know what the 21 foot rule has to do with?
What can you hit with your baseball bat at 21 feet?
dc

I can throw it.

At 1400 feet per second?
I don't think so. And how many throws per bat do you get?
I'd say, only one.
dc

[brianj]

I have a Louisville Slugger baseball bat as my defense weapon and at 6 foot 5 280 pounds I can get a good swing in.

Do you know what the 21 foot rule has to do with?
What can you hit with your baseball bat at 21 feet?
dc

I can throw it.

At 1400 feet per second?
I don't think so. And how many throws per bat do you get?
I'd say, only one.
dc

Considering the difference in weight between a 34 ounce bat and a 0.037 ounce, 115 grain 9mm jacketed hollow point bullet, I don't think he needs to throw the bat at 1,400 feet per second or the 1,250 fps of a Cor-Bon 9mm Luger +P 115gr DPX.

That bullet reportedly has a muzzle energy of 399 foot pounds. Using the equation E = (M x V²) ÷ K, where K = 450,435, M = mass in grains, and V = velocity in feet per second, I get:
437.5 grains / ounce * 34 ounces = 14,875 grains

399 = (14,875 * V^2) / 450,435
399 * 450,435 = 179,723,565 = 14,875 * V^2
179,723,565 / 14,875 = 12,082.256 = v*2
sqrt (12,082.256) = 109.9 feet per second.

That comes out to nearly 75 mph which is close to the average bat swing speed in a major league baseball game.

But, of course, the effect of a bat swing (or throw) is very different from the effect of a bullet. A much lower energy is needed for decent blunt force trauma from a bat.

[brianj]

And yes, this video describes me well.

[David13]

Do you know what the 21 foot rule has to do with?
What can you hit with your baseball bat at 21 feet?
dc

I can throw it.

At 1400 feet per second?
I don't think so. And how many throws per bat do you get?
I'd say, only one.
dc

Considering the difference in weight between a 34 ounce bat and a 0.037 ounce, 115 grain 9mm jacketed hollow point bullet, I don't think he needs to throw the bat at 1,400 feet per second or the 1,250 fps of a Cor-Bon 9mm Luger +P 115gr DPX.

That bullet reportedly has a muzzle energy of 399 foot pounds. Using the equation E = (M x V²) ÷ K, where K = 450,435, M = mass in grains, and V = velocity in feet per second, I get:
437.5 grains / ounce * 34 ounces = 14,875 grains

399 = (14,875 * V^2) / 450,435
399 * 450,435 = 179,723,565 = 14,875 * V^2
179,723,565 / 14,875 = 12,082.256 = v*2
sqrt (12,082.256) = 109.9 feet per second.

That comes out to nearly 75 mph which is close to the average bat swing speed in a major league baseball game.

But, of course, the effect of a bat swing (or throw) is very different from the effect of a bullet. A much lower energy is needed for decent blunt force trauma from a bat.

You can describe yourself as you wish.
But I know you wouldn't take a knife to a gun fight. Nor a bat.
dc

Can you come up with the calculations what show whether it's easier to dodge a bat, or a bullet?

[brianj]

Can you come up with the calculations what show whether it's easier to dodge a bat, or a bullet?

No, there are too many variables to calculate. But, assuming it takes 1.5 seconds to react and move enough to get out of the way of a head shot, for .308 Winchester you would need to be at least 925 yards away. Of course this also assumes you know the shot's coming your way, you somehow become aware of the shot the moment it's fired, and it's a head shot.