Deleted

[ParticleMan]

Yes, Romney would win because, as a minority religion, we tend to identify with those who share our beliefs. This is why Mormons would also vote for the likes of Harry Reid if he ran for senate in Utah.

Some, however, neither identify with nor vote for hypocrites.

[lundbaek]

As I just a few minutes ago wrote on another thread, I believe that not until after the cleansing of America will we be able to get back to the inspired formula of the original Constitution. In the meantime, we can and should prepare for that day and encourage people to learn the principles of the Constitution (in the tradition of the Founding Fathers, as President Benson advised in Oct. 1987) and start upholding and abiding by them. And to me that means actively supporting candidates of government offices who espouse and will abide by those principles.

[Arenera]

As I just a few minutes ago wrote on another thread, I believe that not until after the cleansing of America will we be able to get back to the inspired formula of the original Constitution. In the meantime, we can and should prepare for that day and encourage people to learn the principles of the Constitution (in the tradition of the Founding Fathers, as President Benson advised in Oct. 1987) and start upholding and abiding by them. And to me that means actively supporting candidates of government offices who espouse and will abide by those principles.

You certainly can vote for the 1%. Today that would be similar to not voting. Looking forward, Zion people are pure in heart, no poor amoung them, really won’t need a constitution, they already have it inside themselves.

[Ezra]

Arenera asked 2 questions which I think we should all give thought to:

1.) At what point do you consider the constitution to be acceptable. For example, after the civil war?

2.) What are the top 10 grievances you have today where you consider we are out of line?

My replies:
1.) In the April 1976 General Conference Ezra Taft Benson stated "To me its [the Constitution] words are akin to the revelations of God, for God has placed his stamp of approval on the Constitution of this land." On earlier occasions both Elder Benson and Joseph Fielding Smith said the same thing. So in trying to figure out what that stamp of approval was, I finally decided it is found in D&C 98:4-7, D&C 101:77 & 80, and D&C 109: 54. These were given in 1833, 1833 & 1836 respectively. So I accept that the Constitution and the first 12 amendments were acceptable to the Lord by 1836.:

2.) My top grievances, or where I think America has gotten out of line Re. the Constitution are:
a) I think it was a mistake to provide in the 14th Amendmant that all persons born in the U.S.A. are automatically citizens.
b) The 16th Amendment provided for a federal income tax which I disapprove, and which is now about 10 higher than originally promised, and further abused by various changes
c) The 17th Amendment allowed U.S. senators to be elected by popular vote instead of elected by the respective state legislatures, making senators beholden to voters instead of to the state legislators.
d) I'm pretty sure the Church First Presidency supported the 18th amendment, which prohibited manufacture and sale of booze. I think think that amendment gave rise to criminal activity, and that the issue should have been left to the individual states.
e) the 21st Amendment repealed "prohibition". President Grant, the Prophet at the time, asked the Saint to oppose it and vote against it in Utah. I think its repeal put an end to a lot of crime.
f) The 22nd Amendment limited the U.S. President to 2 terms. I disapprove of term limits. Voters should be able to decide how long an elected official remains in office.
g) Several Prophets have warned that we have apostatized in various ways from the Constitution. A book could be written on that subject. 1) Congress no longer declares war, 2) Recent U.S. Presidents have refused to enforce certain laws, most notably to me, the immigration laws, 3) The Fed is unconstitutional, as is its creation of money, 4) Welfare and foreign aid are unconstitutional.
That's my 10 grievances. I calls 'em as I sees 'em.

Thank you for your response.

I think maybe 1% of people would agree with you, which would require a different way to package your message to get more support, even with Mormons.

Your really stuck on 1%. Where do you get your data?

It’s been my experience that it’s more like 50%.

I would bet on this forum it’s higher then 50%. 75% more likely.

But I have noticed the trend of people who study scripture more and read and study past prophets as well are current are the ones who agree. The ones who don’t study tend to agree less.

If Romney was running for Senator today, he would get 70% of the vote in Utah.

Where did I get my data? I looked at the vote counts for President in Utah, where Trump won. Less than 1% of Utahns voted for the Constitution Party. I looked at the vote counts in the US, and again, less than 1% of the US voted for the Constitution Party.

LDSFF is spread across states, but in total compared to the US population, you are less than 1%.

You can certainly believe how you want, but at 1%, you are not going to impact anything.

For example, the Federal Reserve has been in place for over 100 years. If you were going to get rid of it, you need more than 1% of people involved.

Even if you take 6 million Mormons and make them vote Constitution Party, you have a fringe group that no one will listen to.

And telling 99% of Mormons that they are fence sitters and will go to hell is just baloney.

And is spending your time studying past Presidents good? I like Brigham Young but he lived a long time ago.

Is it good to study past prophets?????? You mean like the scriptures??? Yes. The scriptures even say so. I am surprised you don’t know this. I’m guessing you don’t study scriptures much at all. Study 2 Nephi chapter 29.

But here is one verse inpercticulor

11 For I command all men, both in the east and in the west, and in the north, and in the south, and in the islands of the sea, that they shall write the words which I speak unto them; for out of the books which shall be written I will judge the world, every man according to their works, according to that which is written.

Also d&c 88:
118 And as all have not faith, seek ye diligently and teach one another words of wisdom; yea, seek ye out of the best books words of wisdom; seek learning, even by study and also by faith.

The spoken and written words of all our modern prophets have also been put into books. Many have written books themselves. We will be judge by those words. If your ignorant of them or not you will be judged. You have no excuse as you have been warned by scriptures which you are supposed to read.


You will have to take it up with god on being called a fence sitter by a prophet. Those where Ezra Taft Bensons words written in a book by himself as prophet.

1% vote doesn’t equal 1 % who would agree. There are many people who know and agree with constitutional principles. And many of those people voted to keep Hillary out instead of voting for the most worthy constitutional good honest candidate.

Many people who agree with constitutional principles are also not informed or aware of how the media is owned and bias towards their chosen front runners.

I agree that there is little we can do with our vote vs the majority of uninformed voters.

But that doesn’t change what is right. We are supposed to vote for good wise honest people. D&c 98 5-7. If we don’t will only bring about evil.

So ya if you want to pat yourself on the back for being part of a vote that will bring about evil, pat yourself on the back. It doesn’t change what your doing or how you will be judged for your part in bringing about the unrighteous domion of your fellow men.

It’s a very serious thing.

If 99% of the nation decides and votes for bad things it does not somehow make it right or good.

Justifying it doesn’t make it right or good either.

We can only serve one master. We are either on his side or not. There is no grey area.

[lundbaek]

I don't care one whit if only 1% of people would agree with me. I have studied as best I can the words of the Lord and the words of latter-day prophets and apostles Re. freedom/liberty, the responsibility of Latter-day Saints to the U.S. Constitution, our charge to suffer not that the murderous combinations shall get above us, which are build up to get power and gain, and how to decide whom to vote for.

There may be better, more effective ways to persuade people, especially Latter-day Saints, to awake to as sense of our awful situation and to oppose the works of the murderous combinations which are intent on destroying the constitutional government the American Founding Fathers gave us and making a shambles of the society and government established by the U.S. Constitution, and saddle the United States with a centralized socialist government and make our nation subservient to a single, world government, a.k.a. the New World Order. There may be better, more effective ways to persuade people, especially Latter-day Saints, to learn, uphold and abide by the principles of the US Constitution "in the tradition of the Founding Fathers". Apparently, even prophets like Presidents McKay, Clark, Benson and others accomplished not as much as they had hoped in that regard. And I've had far less success, but I have had some. And some of that success came by way of my explanations as to why I never voted for Donald Trump, Mitt Romney, John McCain, Jeff Flake, and certain other RINOs. And to me that is more important than being on a winning team that promotes and supports multiple egregious violations of the principles of freedom/liberty and the US Constitution.

We few who prefer to resist our increasing subservience to the latter-day gadiantons that Moroni told us in no uncertain terms would be among us in our day look forward to that later day when a remnant of our society will participate in the restoration of the principles of government that the Lord wanted to to live under.

[Arenera]

Y’all are quite pleased with yourselves. You sound just like Remnants.

At least I understand where you are coming from. Someone said I was negative yet it is your group calling people fence sitters and saying they will go to hell.

Your message is all wrong. Christ wants people to go to heaven. That is the message our missionaries take out. That is the right way to do it.

[harakim]

Arenera

On a side note I have noticed that with your comments you don’t seem interested in helping others understand and better themselves. Help lift them up to a better understand. You seem more interested in just arguing for the sake of the argument.

I would challenge you in your posts to try to lift other up. Help them understand how and why a better way to think would be. Back it up by scriptures and facts and above all with love.

Knowing that Romney is very popular in Utah, I have wondered why so many at LDSFF are very negative about him. In my journey, I see many LDSFF with a Constitution Party leaning, even claiming backing from a Church President. Certainly people have the right to vote how they want.

The world has rejected the gospel that is spread by The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints. Let’s say there are 6 million Mormons in the US. Well, there are 380 million people in the US. If all 6 million Mormons vote as one, they still can’t affect a change in the US.

Less than 1% of all US people vote for the Constitution Party. That won’t change anything.

Claiming that Mormons are going to hell because they don’t vote Constitution Party, is a bunch of bunk.

Vote how you will, that is your choice. But you are incorrect to say Mormons are out of line because they don’t vote the same way you do.

Woe unto the world because of poor leadership! for it must needs be that poor leadership come; but woe to that man by whom the poor leadership cometh!

[Ezra]

Y’all are quite pleased with yourselves. You sound just like Remnants.

At least I understand where you are coming from. Someone said I was negative yet it is your group calling people fence sitters and saying they will go to hell.

Your message is all wrong. Christ wants people to go to heaven. That is the message our missionaries take out. That is the right way to do it.

Who are the remnant that you keep referring too?

What group are you referring to that is calling you a fence sitter? Ezra Taft Benson was the one who I quoted that refered to people who are not involved righteously in the battle for our free agency today as fence sitters and also the 1/3 of host of heaven that were cast out for following the same destructive line of thinking that Satan tricks people into believing.

But I don’t see how quoting a prophet makes anyone some how part of a group.

I do see you taking on that lable yourself. Did the prophets words hit close to home? Did you take offense to his words?


This is what I have learned about taking offense. If the scriptures offend you or something a prophet says offends you you should really really listen and figure out why.

Luke 7: 23 And blessed is he, whosoever shall not be offended in me.

Satan uses becoming offended as a means to distract you from leaning a very important message. No matter really who it is that is causing the offense a lesson could be being learned. Satan knows this and is why he try’s so hard get people to take offense to what others say.

The labels that you place on others during the time you are choosing to be offended make it easy for you to ignore them. They cause you to Look down on them for the offense they supposedly caused. Instead of thinking on the message they bring.

It’s a very tricky slight of hand Satan uses to keep us from growing and becoming better.

I hope that you will look past the offense you chosen to take on and instead look for what you can learn and do better in spite of the efforts Satan has taken to keep you from growing.

[Arenera]

Y’all are quite pleased with yourselves. You sound just like Remnants.

At least I understand where you are coming from. Someone said I was negative yet it is your group calling people fence sitters and saying they will go to hell.

Your message is all wrong. Christ wants people to go to heaven. That is the message our missionaries take out. That is the right way to do it.

Who are the remnant that you keep referring too?

What group are you referring to that is calling you a fence sitter? Ezra Taft Benson was the one who I quoted that refered to people who are not involved righteously in the battle for our free agency today as fence sitters and also the 1/3 of host of heaven that were cast out for following the same destructive line of thinking that Satan tricks people into believing.

But I don’t see how quoting a prophet makes anyone some how part of a group.

I do see you taking on that lable yourself. Did the prophets words hit close to home? Did you take offense to his words?


This is what I have learned about taking offense. If the scriptures offend you or something a prophet says offends you you should really really listen and figure out why.

Luke 7: 23 And blessed is he, whosoever shall not be offended in me.

Satan uses becoming offended as a means to distract you from leaning a very important message. No matter really who it is that is causing the offense a lesson could be being learned. Satan knows this and is why he try’s so hard get people to take offense to what others say.

The labels that you place on others during the time you are choosing to be offended make it easy for you to ignore them. They cause you to Look down on them for the offense they supposedly caused. Instead of thinking on the message they bring.

It’s a very tricky slight of hand Satan uses to keep us from growing and becoming better.

I hope that you will look past the offense you chosen to take on and instead look for what you can learn and do better in spite of the efforts Satan has taken to keep you from growing.

Your words tell exactly what you are. You can always tell when someone has a weak position, they hide behind a past prophet and tell anyone who questions their position that they are part of Satan’s group.

You have identified yourself and your weak position.

[Ezra]

Y’all are quite pleased with yourselves. You sound just like Remnants.

At least I understand where you are coming from. Someone said I was negative yet it is your group calling people fence sitters and saying they will go to hell.

Your message is all wrong. Christ wants people to go to heaven. That is the message our missionaries take out. That is the right way to do it.

Christ does want people to go to heaven. Your correct in that.

He wants us to have agnency too.

Satan plan was to force people to do the right thing.

Christ wanted us to choose it on our own.

1/3 of the host of heaven were kick out for not choosing god side of agency vs force. They either didn’t actively choose gods side or they chose Satan’s plan.

He warns us in scriptures d&c 121 33-43 that many of us are called few chosen. Because we practice unrighteous dominion (force) over our fellow men.

It’s no surprise that we are still being judged in this life if we choose the side of god and agency vs Satan and force. Especially with the veil in place to see if we really choose it for ourselves.

So yes Christ wants us all to choose to go to heaven. But the choice is our just as it was in the pre existence. Will we choose Christ and God and heaven. Or will we choose force?

If we choose force we still go to heaven. Almost all do who have a body. Other then sons of perdition. But will we choose to live a law that will grant us entry to the highest kingdom???

Many are called few chosen. Few will be chosen. God knows this and has warned us. This warning is so we can recognize that there are few and dedicate ourself to being the part of the few. At least those who choose to dedicate themselves vs those who just do the minimum.

I hope to be chosen. And I try hard to dedicate myself to the task.

[Ezra]

Y’all are quite pleased with yourselves. You sound just like Remnants.

At least I understand where you are coming from. Someone said I was negative yet it is your group calling people fence sitters and saying they will go to hell.

Your message is all wrong. Christ wants people to go to heaven. That is the message our missionaries take out. That is the right way to do it.

Who are the remnant that you keep referring too?

What group are you referring to that is calling you a fence sitter? Ezra Taft Benson was the one who I quoted that refered to people who are not involved righteously in the battle for our free agency today as fence sitters and also the 1/3 of host of heaven that were cast out for following the same destructive line of thinking that Satan tricks people into believing.

But I don’t see how quoting a prophet makes anyone some how part of a group.

I do see you taking on that lable yourself. Did the prophets words hit close to home? Did you take offense to his words?


This is what I have learned about taking offense. If the scriptures offend you or something a prophet says offends you you should really really listen and figure out why.

Luke 7: 23 And blessed is he, whosoever shall not be offended in me.

Satan uses becoming offended as a means to distract you from leaning a very important message. No matter really who it is that is causing the offense a lesson could be being learned. Satan knows this and is why he try’s so hard get people to take offense to what others say.

The labels that you place on others during the time you are choosing to be offended make it easy for you to ignore them. They cause you to Look down on them for the offense they supposedly caused. Instead of thinking on the message they bring.

It’s a very tricky slight of hand Satan uses to keep us from growing and becoming better.

I hope that you will look past the offense you chosen to take on and instead look for what you can learn and do better in spite of the efforts Satan has taken to keep you from growing.

Your words tell exactly what you are. You can always tell when someone has a weak position, they hide behind a past prophet and tell anyone who questions their position that they are part of Satan’s group.

You have identified yourself and your weak position.

A weak position is one not backed by prophets and scriptures.

Try again. And thanks for making me laugh out loud. That was great. Seriously that was a good laugh.


Please use scripture and prophets to prove your side.
Please Change my mind by actual words of prophets. I’m seriously inviting you too.

Teach us how strong your position is. I want to learn. And if I’m not thinking correctly please teach me.

[Arenera]

Current prophets and apostles, listen to them.

For voting, find out positions, vote for good people.

President Monson and President Benson, read the Book of Mormon.

The Remnants don’t go further than Joseph Smith. The contitutionists stop at President Benson.

Can a Mormon go to the Celestial Kingdom if they vote:
- Republican
- Democrat
- Independent
- Libertarian
- Constitution Party

[Ezra]

Current prophets and apostles, listen to them.

For voting, find out positions, vote for good people.

President Monson and President Benson, read the Book of Mormon.

The Remnants don’t go further than Joseph Smith. The contitutionists stop at President Benson.

Can a Mormon go to the Celestial Kingdom if they vote:
- Republican
- Democrat
- Independent
- Libertarian
- Constitution Party

I was really hoping you would have a single prophetic word or scripture to back up your thoughts. But you have proven just how week your position truly is. Thank you for your reply.

[Arenera]

Current prophets and apostles, listen to them.

For voting, find out positions, vote for good people.

President Monson and President Benson, read the Book of Mormon.

The Remnants don’t go further than Joseph Smith. The contitutionists stop at President Benson.

Can a Mormon go to the Celestial Kingdom if they vote:
- Republican
- Democrat
- Independent
- Libertarian
- Constitution Party

I was really hoping you would have a single prophetic word or scripture to back up your thoughts. But you have proven just how week your position truly is. Thank you for your reply.

I already posted this, from the Living First Presidency.

Dear Brothers and Sisters:

Political Participation, Voting, and the Political Neutrality of the Church
As citizens we have the privilege and duty of electing office holders and influencing public policy. Participation in the political process affects our communities and nation today and in the future. We urge Latter-day Saints to be active citizens by registering, exercising their right to vote, and engaging in civic affairs.

We also urge you to spend the time needed to become informed about the issues and candidates you will be considering. Along with the options available to you through the Internet, debates, and other sources, the Church occasionally posts information about particular moral issues on which it has taken a position at www.MormonNewsroom.org.

Principles compatible with the gospel may be found in various political parties, and members should seek candidates who best embody those principles.

While the Church affirms its institutional neutrality regarding political parties and candidates, individual members should participate in the political process. The Church also affirms its constitutional right of expression on political and social issues.

Sincerely yours,
Thomas S. Monson
Henry B. Eyring
Dieter F. Uchtdorf
The First Presidency.

Strong. Game, set, match.

[lundbaek]

Game, Set, Match, Ezra wins.

"read the Book of Mormon."

"spend the time needed to become informed about the issues and candidates you will be considering."

" be active citizens by registering, exercising their right to vote, and engaging in civic affairs."

[Ezra]

Current prophets and apostles, listen to them.

For voting, find out positions, vote for good people.

President Monson and President Benson, read the Book of Mormon.

The Remnants don’t go further than Joseph Smith. The contitutionists stop at President Benson.

Can a Mormon go to the Celestial Kingdom if they vote:
- Republican
- Democrat
- Independent
- Libertarian
- Constitution Party

I was really hoping you would have a single prophetic word or scripture to back up your thoughts. But you have proven just how week your position truly is. Thank you for your reply.

I already posted this, from the Living First Presidency.

Dear Brothers and Sisters:

Political Participation, Voting, and the Political Neutrality of the Church
As citizens we have the privilege and duty of electing office holders and influencing public policy. Participation in the political process affects our communities and nation today and in the future. We urge Latter-day Saints to be active citizens by registering, exercising their right to vote, and engaging in civic affairs.

We also urge you to spend the time needed to become informed about the issues and candidates you will be considering. Along with the options available to you through the Internet, debates, and other sources, the Church occasionally posts information about particular moral issues on which it has taken a position at www.MormonNewsroom.org.

Principles compatible with the gospel may be found in various political parties, and members should seek candidates who best embody those principles.

While the Church affirms its institutional neutrality regarding political parties and candidates, individual members should participate in the political process. The Church also affirms its constitutional right of expression on political and social issues.

Sincerely yours,
Thomas S. Monson
Henry B. Eyring
Dieter F. Uchtdorf
The First Presidency.

Strong. Game, set, match.

That is a wonderful quote That doesn’t prove the opposite of what I have said. It goes hand in hand.

Members are urged to seek candidates that embody the principles of the gospel.

Such as being constitutional as voteing for constitutional candidates who are good honest wise men. d&c 98 4-10. Anything else comets evil.

God being the author of the constitution d&c 101:79-80

79 Therefore, it is not right that any man should be in bondage one to another.
80 And for this purpose have I established the Constitution of this land, by the hands of wise men whom I raised up unto this very purpose, and redeemed the land by the shedding of blood.


Seeking people who Wont use unrighteous dominion d&c121 33-43. Because those who use unrighteous dominion fight against god. Vs 38.

Because so many have gone astray

2 Nephi 28:14

14 They wear stiff necks and high heads; yea, and because of pride, and wickedness, and abominations, and whoredoms, they have all gone astray save it be a few, who are the humble followers of Christ; nevertheless, they are led, that in many instances they do err because they are taught by the precepts of men.

Like we find so heavily taught in the media.

And we know that

3 Nephi 27:11
But if it be not built upon my gospel, and is built upon the works of men, or upon the works of the devil, verily I say unto you they have joy in their works for a season and by and by the end cometh, and they are hewn down and cast into the fire, from whence there is no return.

So it’s important to not be building up that which is not the gospel or of God. Like people who don’t uphold the constitution that god created And hold to socialism or Satan.


Check mate. Those are gospel principles. You have to deny the gospel or ignore it to think it’s ok to vote for socialistic programs or candidates that progress those agendas or use government to force and tax their fellow man using unrighteous dominion.

Here are a few more nails in your coffin

Joseph Smith Jr.: "We shall have the satisfaction of knowing we have acted conscienciously and have used our best judgement, and if we have to throw away our votes, we had better do so upon a worthy rather than an unworthy individual who might make use of the weapon we put in his hand to destroy us!" (Comprehensive History of the Church 2:208-209)

Worthy mind you.

Hyrum Smith the Patriarch of the Church: "We engage in the election the same as in any other principle, you're to vote for good men and if you do not do this it is a sin. To vote for wicked men, it would be sin! Choose the good and refuse the evil. Men of false principles have preyed upon us like wolves upon helpless lambs. Damn the rod of tyrrany and curse it! Let every man use his liberties according to the Constitution. Don't fear man or devil, electioneer with all people, male and female, and exhort them to do the thing which is right. We want a President of the United States, not a party President, but a President of the whole people, for a party President disenfranchises the other party. Have a President who will maintain every man in his rights." (HC 6:323)

Unrighteous dominion (socialism) is not maintaining every mans rights.


And now as the last neutralizer that the devil used most effectively—it is simply this:
“Don’t do anything in the fight for freedom until the church sets up its own specific program to save the Constitution.” This brings us right back to the scripture of those slothful servants who will not do anything until they are “compelled in all things.” Maybe the Lord will never set up a specific church program for the purpose of saving the Constitution. Perhaps if he set up one at this time it might split the Church asunder, and perhaps he does not want that to happen yet, for not all the wheat and tares are fully ripe. The Prophet Joseph smith declared it will be the elders of Israel who will step forward to help save the Constitution, NOT THE CHURCH!
Pres. Ezra Taft Benson — CR April 65


Will you continue to wait for a commandment from the current church leadership to be righteously involved??

We must me anxiously engaged in a good cause.

The devil knows that if the elders of Israel should ever wake up, they could step forth and help preserve freedom and extend the gospel. Therefore, the devil has concentrated, and to a large extent successfully, in NEUTRALIZING such of the priesthood. He has reduced them to sleeping giants.
Ezra Taft Benson - CR Apr 65

Are you neutralized???


We should, in the tradition of the Founding Fathers, learn the principles of the Constitution and abide by its precepts. We encourage Latter-day Saints throughout the nation to familiarize themselves with the Constitution. They should focus attention on it by reading it and studying it.
They should recommit themselves to its principles and be prepared to defend it and the freedom it provides. Citizens of this nation are free to participate in efforts designed to WARN of the
THREAT of any force or power, theory or principle, that would deprive them of their freedom or the individual liberties vouchsafed by the Constitution.
Because some Americans have not kept faith with our Founding Fathers, the Constitution faces severe challenges. Those who do not prize individual freedom are trying to erode its great principles. We, as Latter-Day Saints MUST BE VIGILANT in doing our part to preserve the
Constitution and safeguard the way of life it makes possible. Learn more about this divinely inspired charter of our liberty, speak in its defense, and preserve and protect it against evil or DESTRUCTION. We encourage your participation and involvement in this worthy endeavor.
First Presidency Message (to be read in sacrament Meeting Jan 87.


President Monson quoted Ezra Taft benson many times you know.

Like

“His voice of warning over many years in the cause of freedom can be found in hundreds of his speeches and in his books, including The Red Carpet, The Title of Liberty, This Nation Shall Endure, and An Enemy Hath Done This. On the two-hundredth anniversary of the signing of the Constitution of the United States, President Thomas S. Monson reflected: “I think it is no small coincidence in fact, I think it is the inspiration of the Almighty God that at this particular time we have serving as president of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, President Ezra Taft Benson, one of the greatest advocates of freedom, and one of those who loves most the Constitution.”


Also

President Monson said, “the Deseret News will defend and promote the principles of the Constitution and the great freedoms for which the nation stands; indeed, it will promote the free agency of all mankind.



I would invite you to look through the quotes by all our modem prophets all saying the same things on the constitution and need to defend and protect our agency and freedoms. There is a big yet still partial list here.


https://www.latterdayconservative.com/quotes/


Would you like to play again??


Enjoy.

[lundbaek]

Normally I don't share much personal correspondence in public, but I think this sentence from the late Jerome Horowitz says something better that I can, and he has more credibility than I have:
"Confirming our telephone conversation I think the Church is cautious about openly participating in freedom promotion activities partly because of concern about government retribution that might unduly hinder its primary religious mission and partly because so many members have been indoctrinated to favor federal dominance and federal welfare and regulation that there is concern that a strong constitutional position might split the Church."

[Arenera]

Current prophets and apostles, listen to them.

For voting, find out positions, vote for good people.

President Monson and President Benson, read the Book of Mormon.

The Remnants don’t go further than Joseph Smith. The contitutionists stop at President Benson.

Can a Mormon go to the Celestial Kingdom if they vote:
- Republican
- Democrat
- Independent
- Libertarian
- Constitution Party

I was really hoping you would have a single prophetic word or scripture to back up your thoughts. But you have proven just how week your position truly is. Thank you for your reply.

I already posted this, from the Living First Presidency.

Dear Brothers and Sisters:

Political Participation, Voting, and the Political Neutrality of the Church
As citizens we have the privilege and duty of electing office holders and influencing public policy. Participation in the political process affects our communities and nation today and in the future. We urge Latter-day Saints to be active citizens by registering, exercising their right to vote, and engaging in civic affairs.

We also urge you to spend the time needed to become informed about the issues and candidates you will be considering. Along with the options available to you through the Internet, debates, and other sources, the Church occasionally posts information about particular moral issues on which it has taken a position at www.MormonNewsroom.org.

Principles compatible with the gospel may be found in various political parties, and members should seek candidates who best embody those principles.

While the Church affirms its institutional neutrality regarding political parties and candidates, individual members should participate in the political process. The Church also affirms its constitutional right of expression on political and social issues.

Sincerely yours,
Thomas S. Monson
Henry B. Eyring
Dieter F. Uchtdorf
The First Presidency.

Strong. Game, set, match.

That is a wonderful quote That doesn’t prove the opposite of what I have said. It goes hand in hand.

Members are urged to seek candidates that embody the principles of the gospel.

Such as being constitutional as voteing for constitutional candidates who are good honest wise men. d&c 98 4-10. Anything else comets evil.

God being the author of the constitution d&c 101:79-80

79 Therefore, it is not right that any man should be in bondage one to another.
80 And for this purpose have I established the Constitution of this land, by the hands of wise men whom I raised up unto this very purpose, and redeemed the land by the shedding of blood.


Seeking people who Wont use unrighteous dominion d&c121 33-43. Because those who use unrighteous dominion fight against god. Vs 38.

Because so many have gone astray

2 Nephi 28:14

14 They wear stiff necks and high heads; yea, and because of pride, and wickedness, and abominations, and whoredoms, they have all gone astray save it be a few, who are the humble followers of Christ; nevertheless, they are led, that in many instances they do err because they are taught by the precepts of men.

Like we find so heavily taught in the media.

And we know that

3 Nephi 27:11
But if it be not built upon my gospel, and is built upon the works of men, or upon the works of the devil, verily I say unto you they have joy in their works for a season and by and by the end cometh, and they are hewn down and cast into the fire, from whence there is no return.

So it’s important to not be building up that which is not the gospel or of God. Like people who don’t uphold the constitution that god created And hold to socialism or Satan.


Check mate. Those are gospel principles. You have to deny the gospel or ignore it to think it’s ok to vote for socialistic programs or candidates that progress those agendas or use government to force and tax their fellow man using unrighteous dominion.

Here are a few more nails in your coffin

Joseph Smith Jr.: "We shall have the satisfaction of knowing we have acted conscienciously and have used our best judgement, and if we have to throw away our votes, we had better do so upon a worthy rather than an unworthy individual who might make use of the weapon we put in his hand to destroy us!" (Comprehensive History of the Church 2:208-209)

Worthy mind you.

Hyrum Smith the Patriarch of the Church: "We engage in the election the same as in any other principle, you're to vote for good men and if you do not do this it is a sin. To vote for wicked men, it would be sin! Choose the good and refuse the evil. Men of false principles have preyed upon us like wolves upon helpless lambs. Damn the rod of tyrrany and curse it! Let every man use his liberties according to the Constitution. Don't fear man or devil, electioneer with all people, male and female, and exhort them to do the thing which is right. We want a President of the United States, not a party President, but a President of the whole people, for a party President disenfranchises the other party. Have a President who will maintain every man in his rights." (HC 6:323)

Unrighteous dominion (socialism) is not maintaining every mans rights.


And now as the last neutralizer that the devil used most effectively—it is simply this:
“Don’t do anything in the fight for freedom until the church sets up its own specific program to save the Constitution.” This brings us right back to the scripture of those slothful servants who will not do anything until they are “compelled in all things.” Maybe the Lord will never set up a specific church program for the purpose of saving the Constitution. Perhaps if he set up one at this time it might split the Church asunder, and perhaps he does not want that to happen yet, for not all the wheat and tares are fully ripe. The Prophet Joseph smith declared it will be the elders of Israel who will step forward to help save the Constitution, NOT THE CHURCH!
Pres. Ezra Taft Benson — CR April 65


Will you continue to wait for a commandment from the current church leadership to be righteously involved??

We must me anxiously engaged in a good cause.

The devil knows that if the elders of Israel should ever wake up, they could step forth and help preserve freedom and extend the gospel. Therefore, the devil has concentrated, and to a large extent successfully, in NEUTRALIZING such of the priesthood. He has reduced them to sleeping giants.
Ezra Taft Benson - CR Apr 65

Are you neutralized???


We should, in the tradition of the Founding Fathers, learn the principles of the Constitution and abide by its precepts. We encourage Latter-day Saints throughout the nation to familiarize themselves with the Constitution. They should focus attention on it by reading it and studying it.
They should recommit themselves to its principles and be prepared to defend it and the freedom it provides. Citizens of this nation are free to participate in efforts designed to WARN of the
THREAT of any force or power, theory or principle, that would deprive them of their freedom or the individual liberties vouchsafed by the Constitution.
Because some Americans have not kept faith with our Founding Fathers, the Constitution faces severe challenges. Those who do not prize individual freedom are trying to erode its great principles. We, as Latter-Day Saints MUST BE VIGILANT in doing our part to preserve the
Constitution and safeguard the way of life it makes possible. Learn more about this divinely inspired charter of our liberty, speak in its defense, and preserve and protect it against evil or DESTRUCTION. We encourage your participation and involvement in this worthy endeavor.
First Presidency Message (to be read in sacrament Meeting Jan 87.


President Monson quoted Ezra Taft benson many times you know.

Like

“His voice of warning over many years in the cause of freedom can be found in hundreds of his speeches and in his books, including The Red Carpet, The Title of Liberty, This Nation Shall Endure, and An Enemy Hath Done This. On the two-hundredth anniversary of the signing of the Constitution of the United States, President Thomas S. Monson reflected: “I think it is no small coincidence in fact, I think it is the inspiration of the Almighty God that at this particular time we have serving as president of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, President Ezra Taft Benson, one of the greatest advocates of freedom, and one of those who loves most the Constitution.”


Also

President Monson said, “the Deseret News will defend and promote the principles of the Constitution and the great freedoms for which the nation stands; indeed, it will promote the free agency of all mankind.



I would invite you to look through the quotes by all our modem prophets all saying the same things on the constitution and need to defend and protect our agency and freedoms. There is a big yet still partial list here.


https://www.latterdayconservative.com/quotes/


Would you like to play again??


Enjoy.

Your opinion is your opinion.

Maybe you don’t understand that most Mormons vote and check out the issues and support good people.

The constitution you want was over 200 years ago. You can’t get it back. You can try.

[Ezra]

Even you don’t believe that statement. Most members consistently vote for the lesser of 2 evil front runners. They don’t research them other then what the media tells them. But they almost always agree that they are the lesser of 2 evils.

Even if I am part of your imagined 1%. That’s fine by me. As long as I am doing the right thing and on the right side.

It’s not how close to the cliff you can drive.Not How many tires you can manage to hang off without going over. It’s how far from the cliff you can drive that gets us to the celestial kingdom.

We know and have been taught that it will only be a few.
If it’s 1% it’s 1%. And I will be happy to be numbered with them. If it’s more like 50% then I will be happy to be numbered with them.

But regardless it will be by the law of the harvest.

One of the best teaching on the law of harvest that I have found is this.

WE WILL SPEND ETERNITY WITH THOSE WHO WILL ALLOW US NO MORE FREEDOM THAN WE ARE WILLING TO ALLOW THEM.
Over and over again, the scriptures emphasize that we will be judged according to our treatment of our fellowmen. If we are charitable, we will be placed with the sheep in the Lord’s kingdom rather than with the goats in outer darkness. (Matt. 25:31—46) If we forgive, we may be forgiven. (Matt.6:12) If we are just, we may rise in the resurrection of the Just: and dwell with them. (D&C Sec. 76) If we refrain from exercising compulsion unrighteously, our dominion in the hereafter may be everlasting and flow unto us forever and ever without compulsory means. (D&C Sec. 121) In short, we can expect to be treated in the next life as we treat others here.
The exact implementation of this law of the harvest will occur at the end of this life, when we will be divided into groups and each will be consigned to spend eternity with those with whom he is most like. An unjust person will dwell with those who will treat him unjustly; a kind, forgiving person will enjoy the companionship of kind and forgiving associates, etc. But the fact which is important to our discussion here is that each person will be with that group who will allow him to exercise no more freedom than he is willing to allow them.
If, during this life, we have been persuaded to believe that the force of government, or any other agency, should be used to deny our fellowmen the stewardship which God has given them over their families, their property, and their private affairs, we can be very certain that we will be placed with a group in the hereafter who will hold similar views. With such an attitude, we cannot expect to have stewardship or dominions of our own because we do not believe in them for others and neither will those with whom we will dwell believe in them for us. The poetic justice of God decrees that if we deprive our fellow of those unalienable rights which, according to the
Declaration of Independence, they have been endowed by their Creator, we will lose our free agency to the same extent.
H. Verlin. Anderson, “The Great and Abominable Church of the
Devil”

In the scriptures the lord says this.

D&c 112

23 Verily, verily, I say unto you, darkness covereth the earth, and gross darkness the minds of the people, and all flesh has become corrupt before my face.
24 Behold, vengeance cometh speedily upon the inhabitants of the earth, a day of wrath, a day of burning, a day of desolation, of weeping, of mourning, and of lamentation; and as a whirlwind it shall come upon all the face of the earth, saith the Lord.
25 And upon my house shall it begin, and from my house shall it go forth, saith the Lord;
26 First among those among you, saith the Lord, who have professed to know my name and have not known me, and have blasphemed against me in the midst of my house, saith the Lord.


First among you who profess to know me and have not known me.

There are quite a few times in scriptures the lord has used that phrase. The he doesn’t know us. Or rather we don’t know him.

With the above quote on the law of the harvest think on that With the war in heaven. The war in heaven that rages today still. The battle field is the same for agency and freedoms.

I fear your on the wrong side. I fear that the so many that are not chosen don’t even realize it. Just like what Ezra Taft Benson exsplained when he spoke of the 1/3 of hosts that were cast out of heaven for simply not actively choosing the lords side. They were good people who didn’t choose Satan’s side. But they also didn’t choose the lords side.

When they were cast out they were angry. They felt cheated because they didn’t choose Satan’s side. I imagine they were confused by being lumped in with them. The wailing and gnashing of teeth. The frustration.

I can see that playing out again at judgement day. But as the scriptures say. We have been warned.

I honestly hope that I am wrong about so many being on the wrong side. But the more I read and study scriptures. The more I read and study the past prophets and modern prophets words. I find they are very consistent in their messages. Just as they should be. The message of freedom agency and morality. They all speak on them. Some focus on one part or another. The gospel is always to be understood as a whole not a part.

I fell you are focused on a part without looking at the whole. Even though so much evidence has been provided for you even in this thread.

The link I provided in my last post shows only a part of what has been said on the freedom topic. And you would have to read for hours and hours. I don’t feel you comprehend the importance of it.

Without the understanding of the constitutional principles. The principles of freedom and agency you cannot understand the gospel. It makes it a whole.

Ezra Taft benson agrees
You cannot fully live the gospel without working to save freedom and the Constitution, and to stop Communism. Ezra Taft Benson — CR Oct 66

If you don’t understand why that is the case. You should truly fear that come judgement day the savior saying to you. “ I know you not “. Because you don’t truly know him and what he stands for and is about.

The law of harvest will place you not in his presence. So I hope you take it seriously. Because it truly is as president benson said.

Unless we as citizens of the nation forsake our sins, political and otherwise, and return to the fundamental principles of Christianity and of constitutional government, we will lose our political liberties, our free institutions, and will stand in JEOPARDY BEFORE GOD OF LOSING OUR EXALTATION. Ezra Taft Benson CR Oct 79

Ps. The constitution was God’s creation. And we will be held responsible for the perversion of it. Just as we would be held accountable for changing of the scriptures. Any endeavor to help people and a nation to come back to being in compliance with the constitution and its principles is a worthy endeavor that the lord would reward them for.

You should join that train not point and laugh at those who are anxiously engaged in that good cause.

[Arenera]

If you want to be engaged in 1%, that is your agency. The changes in US laws you don’t like were changed over 100 years ago. Well before I was born.

Trying to use fear to get others to believe you is a lost cause, because it is wrong.

[Crackers]

If you want to be engaged in 1%, that is your agency. The changes in US laws you don’t like were changed over 100 years ago. Well before I was born.

Trying to use fear to get others to believe you is a lost cause, because it is wrong.

Why are you so caught up in this 1% nonsense? Please, if you continue to post, stop using that random number that doesn't indicate anything of value.

[Ezra]

If you want to be engaged in 1%, that is your agency. The changes in US laws you don’t like were changed over 100 years ago. Well before I was born.

Trying to use fear to get others to believe you is a lost cause, because it is wrong.

Using scriptures and words of warning from our prophets is our duty according to scripture. It’s a commandment d&c 88 76-82

If you listen or not is your choice. But it is most definitely not wrong.

Being righteously involved in the battle for our agency is very important as the quotes from prophets and scriptures have shown. It could mean the difference between your exaltation or not.

If you choose to take heed to those warning and do what is right or not is your choice.

If I make a difference in this county or not doesn’t change how god will judge my efforts. Being counted as being on his side is what is important. He will win in the end. And I will have been a part of it.

If you want to be engaged in the 99% fighting on a side that is not gods that is your choice. And it is truly a lost cause because it’s not gods. But again your numbers are way off. You want to think it’s 1 % so you can justify ignoring it.

I do hope you awake to your awful situation though. I know I stand with our prophets who have warned us.

[lundbaek]

It appears to me that Arenera is, like many other LDSs, basing a lot of his thinking about this subject on the fact that the Prophet and the First Presidency are no longer speaking about freedom/liberty. I don't expect the Church authorities will be speaking to us anytime soon now about freedom and the dangers of the secret combinations that President Benson, and more recently (2010) President Packer warned us about. Nor do I expect to hear or read any more from them about our responsibility to the US Constitution. I believe we are now beyond the point of no return, and that retribution by the latter-day gadiantons would unduly hinder the Church's primary religious mission, and that a strong constitutional position might split the Church. Both the Jaredite and Nephite civilizations got to this same point. I think our civilization is in for a similar cleansing. A difference as as I see it is that in our case there will be a remnant, to include the "elders of Israel" that we are told will participate in the restoration of constitutional principles. Latter-day Prophets and Apostles have had some interesting things to say about this event.

[Arenera]

If you want to be engaged in 1%, that is your agency. The changes in US laws you don’t like were changed over 100 years ago. Well before I was born.

Trying to use fear to get others to believe you is a lost cause, because it is wrong.

Why are you so caught up in this 1% nonsense? Please, if you continue to post, stop using that random number that doesn't indicate anything of value.

Actually, I studied it out, like you are supposed to. Less than 1% of people vote for the Constitution Party. It isn't a random number, it shows there is less than 1% of people who agree with the platform.

Changes to the law that are complained about happened over 100 years ago.

Why does 1% upset you? Certainly you can't change anything if you have 1% support. More concerning to me is calling people Fence Sitters and saying they are going to hell because they don't vote the same way as the 1%. This is a weak position to do that.

If you are going to push for something, I suggest this:

behold the disciples of Jesus had formed a church of Christ in all the lands round about. And as many as did come unto them, and did truly repent of their sins, were baptized in the name of Jesus; and they did also receive the Holy Ghost.

2 And it came to pass in the thirty and sixth year, the people were all converted unto the Lord, upon all the face of the land, both Nephites and Lamanites, and there were no contentions and disputations among them, and every man did deal justly one with another.

3 And they had all things common among them; therefore there were not rich and poor, bond and free, but they were all made free, and partakers of the heavenly gift.

[Ezra]

1 % support of the constitution party is far from equaling 1 % support of the constitution.

The republicans platform has many constitutional people. Many more then the constitution party. The tea party has many constitutional people. The libertarian party has many constitutional people. There are even some constitutional Democratic Party members. No one has said you have to vote for the constitution party or your a fence sitter. The scriptures say to vote for good honest wise me who support the constitution. All else comes evil. I will vote for a good honest wise constitutional person from any party. The party system is flawed in my opinion. It’s principles that are important.

Conservative ideas are generally constitutional. The more conservative the more constitution. There are different degrees to which people are constitutional as well in each party. But support of the constitution is more like 50% at this point in time. Even those who think the constitution is outdated still believe the principles when it comes to their own life’s. For others they use unrighteous dominion. For themselves they want freedom.

God said that he would spit out all who were not hot or cold he would spit out the Luke warm. Do you remember that verse? Those are the fence sitters.


There is nothing wrong with having all things in common it’s a wonderful goal. except when it’s done through force. That is Satan’s plan.

If it’s done voluntary then it’s gods plan. Just as it happened in the scriptures you quoted. They were all converted to the gospel and wanted all things in common.

Voluntarily Having all things equal in a community is what Zion will be.

Having no choice in having all things equal is what hell will be. 51% of wolfs Voting what is for dinner is still a hell principle. It’s not gods way.

100% people choosing to be equal is gods way.

So I ask you Arenera if you want equality what is stopping you from giving your things to others who are less fortunate then you?

The answer is nothing. No law exists that stops you.

Have you??

I would guess no You haven’t.

You just want to make other people give up their money to you and others. You want to control what others do. Enslave others. You want to take what doesn’t belong to you.

If you want to practice what you preach give your things to the poor. If you want others to do the same you must first lead by example and they have to volunteer to do the same. Otherwise you are using unrighteous dominion over your fellow men.


Even the modern champion of preaching all things in common doesn’t practice what he preaches.

Here he is driving a $171,000 luxury car. Government enforced equality at work.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=_xZvo5z6Q4U