Deleted

[Fiannan]

Arenera, you just on't get it, do you? One plan is set on free will and the other on force and coercion. You appear to think the latter is okay.

[Ezra]

Arenera, you just on't get it, do you? One plan is set on free will and the other on force and coercion. You appear to think the latter is okay.

I think it might be worse then that. I think Arenera “wants” force and coercion to be good.

[Arenera]

Arenera, you just on't get it, do you? One plan is set on free will and the other on force and coercion. You appear to think the latter is okay.

I think it might be worse then that. I think Arenera “wants” force and coercion to be good.

You are like children who have memorized concepts, but dont’ think.

There was a war in heaven over choice. Christ’s side one. The others were thrown out of heaven and don’t receive bodies.

In Zion, there is no poor because the haves share with the have nots. You are only in Zion because you have that mentality.

You can choice not to pay tithing. If you don’t, well, you go to a lower kingdom.

We live in a republic. People vote for their leaders. If the haves (not as many people) don’t share with the have nots (more people), the have nots will change the leaders over time.

The Birch and Constitution Party have a following of less than 1%. They will never have leadership they agree with. They will always be complaining.

You see, God and Christ share. We should too.

[lundbaek]

There would be lots more willingness to share if there were not so much legalized plunder forcing the haves to share

[Ezra]

Arenera, you just on't get it, do you? One plan is set on free will and the other on force and coercion. You appear to think the latter is okay.

I think it might be worse then that. I think Arenera “wants” force and coercion to be good.

You are like children who have memorized concepts, but dont’ think.

There was a war in heaven over choice. Christ’s side one. The others were thrown out of heaven and don’t receive bodies.

In Zion, there is no poor because the haves share with the have nots. You are only in Zion because you have that mentality.

You can choice not to pay tithing. If you don’t, well, you go to a lower kingdom.

We live in a republic. People vote for their leaders. If the haves (not as many people) don’t share with the have nots (more people), the have nots will change the leaders over time.

The Birch and Constitution Party have a following of less than 1%. They will never have leadership they agree with. They will always be complaining.

You see, God and Christ share. We should too.

Wow. You say you have the ability to think yet don’t listen to what the prophets have taught and expounded on the scriptures.

The teachings of the differences between the 2 plans presented in the war in heaven has been explained by many of our prophets. Agency and choice vs force. And the implications of how Satan continues to trick people to use and accept his plan in our day and age in using governments.

These are not our ideas. These are the teachings of our modern prophets. Constitutionality vs Socialism. It really has been explained by them quite well for anyone who was willing to listen or even research it to any degree.

Tithing and your argument of not paying leads to a lower kingdoms is true. But people who are not lds have no concept of that. People who are not religious don’t even have it on their radar.

Tithing is a non existent issue for them in their reality.
Taxes are a issue in their reality. If they don’t pay they could go to jail.

Satan’s plan. Force all people to do right so all are saved.
Taxes. Force all people to take care of the sick needy poor.

It’s the same plan.

Tithing. If someone chooses to give tithing they do so out of their own heart and will for the good of others.

If they pay it for the selfish reason of making sure they make it to a higher kingdom only. Their hearts are in the wrong place and they won’t make it there anyways.

That is the exact warning of the Pharisees in scriptures. Doing things to appear righteous without actually being righteous.

Zion has no poor among them because people choose to help their neighbors themselves. It’s the same concept of tithing.

Question for you.

3: And they had all things common among them; therefore there were not rich and poor, bond and free, but they were all made free, and partakers of the heavenly gift.

No rich or poor, no bonds and free. They were all free.

How can someone be free if they are forced to pay taxes??? How can someone be without bonds and be forced to pay taxes?

A 50% taxation in the scriptures was grievous to be borne.

We are taxed on average in this county 50-85% taxation. 25-35% being direct income tax. But add all the rest of the taxes compounded on taxes which raise the prices of all products and all the hidden taxes we are 50-85% taxed.

What would the economy look like with 50-85% of our wealth extra in our pockets each year??

Booming. With extra money to take care of the poor sick and needy.

And since you never replied to my questions on the dollar pre 1915 vs today. I will go ahead and inform you.

The dollar of 1915 was gold and silver backed. The dollar today has no backing which drastically changes its value.

For example 1956 the minimum wage was $1.00
A quarter from 1956 which was made of silver 25c worth of silver at the time today is worth $17.00

1956 is the year we went away from a gold standard. So you know why I picked that year.

17 x 4 quarters = $68.00 an hour minimum wage. Vs what we have today.

As the dollar continues to fluctuate in value due to its imagined value on the current market that info changes. Gold and silver prices stay very constant as the amount in circulation stays very constant. You can’t create more out of thin air like the federal reserve does for the dollar.

Where do you think the difference in value has gone? Your smart you can figure this out I hope.

[Lyster]

the have nots will change the leaders over time.

The have nots will change to leaders that will grant them the capability to continue to do the following:

- Live with their girl/boyfriend but NOT spouse, for the next point:
- Get girl pregnant. Single mothers receive benefits much over a married mother.
- Be unemployed. Because why not? The gov't will take care of us. Food stamps, unemployment benefits, etc.

Welfare is good, or in other words, charity is good. Abuse of welfare is not.

Many struggle, and it is unfortunate that they don't receive the help they need. That is largely because of distrust, based on abuse of welfare. The socialist programs only further the abuse of welfare which can't be sustained.

It trains sloth, lack of integrity, and dissolution of the family, because only those who live the above lifestyle can get the real benefits. These are not Christ-like virtues.

A true zion society seeks to care for everyone while providing opportunities for all to work, come together (especially as families), etc. These are Christ-like virtues. A true zion society would have no need or want for the programs we have now like Food Stamps, Medicaid, or other things. These bring relief to some honest souls currently! But if everyone cared for each other, we'd never see them. They are not the ideal standard.

[Arenera]

Arenera, you just on't get it, do you? One plan is set on free will and the other on force and coercion. You appear to think the latter is okay.

I think it might be worse then that. I think Arenera “wants” force and coercion to be good.

You are like children who have memorized concepts, but dont’ think.

There was a war in heaven over choice. Christ’s side one. The others were thrown out of heaven and don’t receive bodies.

In Zion, there is no poor because the haves share with the have nots. You are only in Zion because you have that mentality.

You can choice not to pay tithing. If you don’t, well, you go to a lower kingdom.

We live in a republic. People vote for their leaders. If the haves (not as many people) don’t share with the have nots (more people), the have nots will change the leaders over time.

The Birch and Constitution Party have a following of less than 1%. They will never have leadership they agree with. They will always be complaining.

You see, God and Christ share. We should too.

Wow. You say you have the ability to think yet don’t listen to what the prophets have taught and expounded on the scriptures.

The teachings of the differences between the 2 plans presented in the war in heaven has been explained by many of our prophets. Agency and choice vs force. And the implications of how Satan continues to trick people to use and accept his plan in our day and age in using governments.

These are not our ideas. These are the teachings of our modern prophets. Constitutionality vs Socialism. It really has been explained by them quite well for anyone who was willing to listen or even research it to any degree.

Tithing and your argument of not paying leads to a lower kingdoms is true. But people who are not lds have no concept of that. People who are not religious don’t even have it on their radar.

Tithing is a non existent issue for them in their reality.
Taxes are a issue in their reality. If they don’t pay they could go to jail.

Satan’s plan. Force all people to do right so all are saved.
Taxes. Force all people to take care of the sick needy poor.

It’s the same plan.

Tithing. If someone chooses to give tithing they do so out of their own heart and will for the good of others.

If they pay it for the selfish reason of making sure they make it to a higher kingdom only. Their hearts are in the wrong place and they won’t make it there anyways.

That is the exact warning of the Pharisees in scriptures. Doing things to appear righteous without actually being righteous.

Zion has no poor among them because people choose to help their neighbors themselves. It’s the same concept of tithing.

Question for you.

3: And they had all things common among them; therefore there were not rich and poor, bond and free, but they were all made free, and partakers of the heavenly gift.

No rich or poor, no bonds and free. They were all free.

How can someone be free if they are forced to pay taxes??? How can someone be without bonds and be forced to pay taxes?

A 50% taxation in the scriptures was grievous to be borne.

We are taxed on average in this county 50-85% taxation. 25-35% being direct income tax. But add all the rest of the taxes compounded on taxes which raise the prices of all products and all the hidden taxes we are 50-85% taxed.

What would the economy look like with 50-85% of our wealth extra in our pockets each year??

Booming. With extra money to take care of the poor sick and needy.

And since you never replied to my questions on the dollar pre 1915 vs today. I will go ahead and inform you.

The dollar of 1915 was gold and silver backed. The dollar today has no backing which drastically changes its value.

For example 1956 the minimum wage was $1.00
A quarter from 1956 which was made of silver 25c worth of silver at the time today is worth $17.00

1956 is the year we went away from a gold standard. So you know why I picked that year.

17 x 4 quarters = $68.00 an hour minimum wage. Vs what we have today.

As the dollar continues to fluctuate in value due to its imagined value on the current market that info changes. Gold and silver prices stay very constant as the amount in circulation stays very constant. You can’t create more out of thin air like the federal reserve does for the dollar.

Where do you think the difference in value has gone? Your smart you can figure this out I hope.

What is silver or gold? What is the value of either?

1% or less support gives you nothng. And no, Birchers are not the Remnant.

[Ezra]

Gold and silver are what god said should be our currency. What is the value of either is determined by their rarity. Which is very stable way more valuable then the dollars current value.

Supporting Satan’s plan of force gives you nothing. No reward in heaven.

You would think that’s something that should concern you since you bring up how important tithing is.

As far as your very inaccurate 1% statement.

All it took for the lord to not destroy Sodom and Gomorrah was for the prophet to find 40 good people.

That’s less then 1%

It might be the only reason your currently not being wiped off this land.

If will post is again.

The Book of Mormon narrative is a chronicle of nations long since gone. But in its descriptions of the problems of today’s society, it is as current as the morning newspaper and much more definitive, inspired, and inspiring concerning the solutions of those problems.

I know of no other writing which sets forth with such clarity the tragic consequences to societies that follow courses contrary to the commandments of God. Its pages trace the stories of two distinct civilizations that flourished on the Western Hemisphere. Each began as a small nation, its people walking in the fear of the Lord. But with prosperity came growing evils. The people succumbed to the wiles of ambitious and scheming leaders who oppressed them with burdensome taxes, who lulled them with hollow promises, who countenanced and even encouraged loose and lascivious living. These evil schemers led the people into terrible wars that resulted in the death of millions and the final and total extinction of two great civilizations in two different eras.

No other written testament so clearly illustrates the fact that when men and nations walk in the fear of God and in obedience to His commandments, they prosper and grow, but when they disregard Him and His word, there comes a decay that, unless arrested by righteousness, leads to impotence and death. The Book of Mormon is an affirmation of the Old Testament proverb: “Righteousness exalteth a nation: but sin is a reproach to any people” (Proverbs 14:34).

The God of heaven spoke to these people of the Americas through prophets, telling them where true security could be found: “Behold, this is a choice land, and whatsoever nation shall possess it shall be free from bondage, and from captivity, and from all other nations under heaven, if they will but serve the God of the land, who is Jesus Christ” (Ether 2:12).

( Source: “A Testimony Vibrant and True”, Ensign, August 2005 )

If they serve not the god of this land they will be swept from it is the promise god made.

You should pay attention to that and be thankful of your made up 1% number for being diligent to god and his plan of agency.

[lundbaek]

To be precise, Article I, Section 10, Clause 1 of the U.S.Constitution states that "No State shall....make any Thing but gold and silver Coin a tender in Payment of Debts;...".

[Arenera]

To be precise, Article I, Section 10, Clause 1 of the U.S.Constitution states that "No State shall....make any Thing but gold and silver Coin a tender in Payment of Debts;...".

Whoops, how did that work out?

We are a Star Trek society now.

[lundbaek]

Gold and silver coinage or money backed by gold and silver is what the Lord intended America to have. that should be obvious. It did not work out because of "The Creature From Jekyll Island", which was created to enrich a certain group of people at the expense of the American people.

[Ezra]

To be precise, Article I, Section 10, Clause 1 of the U.S.Constitution states that "No State shall....make any Thing but gold and silver Coin a tender in Payment of Debts;...".

Whoops, how did that work out?

We are a Star Trek society now.

How could we be when we ignore reason and what’s good for us?

How does it ever work out when good people do nothing?
Or how does it work out when people ignore god which is the case.

It works out poor for the people.

1956 a dollar was worth $68 compared to today’s dollar.

How do you like that $67 worth of value of your currency has been stolen since that time?

How can you hide your head in the sand with such blaring transgressions to our wealth and prosperity and somehow call what we have currently as good????
How can you want more of that?

[Arenera]

To be precise, Article I, Section 10, Clause 1 of the U.S.Constitution states that "No State shall....make any Thing but gold and silver Coin a tender in Payment of Debts;...".

Whoops, how did that work out?

We are a Star Trek society now.

How could we be when we ignore reason and what’s good for us?

How does it ever work out when good people do nothing?
Or how does it work out when people ignore god which is the case.

It works out poor for the people.

1956 a dollar was worth $68 compared to today’s dollar.

How do you like that $67 worth of value of your currency has been stolen since that time?

How can you hide your head in the sand with such blaring transgressions to our wealth and prosperity and somehow call what we have currently as good????
How can you want more of that?

What you want is long gone. Even if you doubled your less than 1% to 1.6%, it isn't going to change anything.

The Republicans will pat themselves on their backs for their tax change, although it adds more debt.

From now until the elections next year, all you will hear is "look how much the rich benefited from the tax plan". The democrats could come back with force.

Still, the US is a good place to live.

[Ezra]

To be precise, Article I, Section 10, Clause 1 of the U.S.Constitution states that "No State shall....make any Thing but gold and silver Coin a tender in Payment of Debts;...".

Whoops, how did that work out?

We are a Star Trek society now.

How could we be when we ignore reason and what’s good for us?

How does it ever work out when good people do nothing?
Or how does it work out when people ignore god which is the case.

It works out poor for the people.

1956 a dollar was worth $68 compared to today’s dollar.

How do you like that $67 worth of value of your currency has been stolen since that time?

How can you hide your head in the sand with such blaring transgressions to our wealth and prosperity and somehow call what we have currently as good????
How can you want more of that?

What you want is long gone. Even if you doubled your less than 1% to 1.6%, it isn't going to change anything.

The Republicans will pat themselves on their backs for their tax change, although it adds more debt.

From now until the elections next year, all you will hear is "look how much the rich benefited from the tax plan". The democrats could come back with force.

Still, the US is a good place to live.

Even if wickedness expands government controls and socialist ideologys and controls. They will be cast down by god.

It’s not a winning side you champion for.

I agree the USA is still a good place to live. But it’s a shadow of its former glory. freedoms continue to be eroded. It’s prosperity continue to decline.

And you are somehow happy with that???? Why?

Why is it good that the dollar is worth peanuts compared to what it used to. Why is it good to have lost that much prosperity. Why is it good to have over 50% taxation?

Why are you avoiding those questions?

The Democratic Party sucks. The republicans suck to the same extent. Neither are good for the nation. Because neither are doing God’s will.

Why don’t you answer the question I ask you? Scare of the truth you would have to say?

[Arenera]

Whoops, how did that work out?

We are a Star Trek society now.

How could we be when we ignore reason and what’s good for us?

How does it ever work out when good people do nothing?
Or how does it work out when people ignore god which is the case.

It works out poor for the people.

1956 a dollar was worth $68 compared to today’s dollar.

How do you like that $67 worth of value of your currency has been stolen since that time?

How can you hide your head in the sand with such blaring transgressions to our wealth and prosperity and somehow call what we have currently as good????
How can you want more of that?

What you want is long gone. Even if you doubled your less than 1% to 1.6%, it isn't going to change anything.

The Republicans will pat themselves on their backs for their tax change, although it adds more debt.

From now until the elections next year, all you will hear is "look how much the rich benefited from the tax plan". The democrats could come back with force.

Still, the US is a good place to live.

Even if wickedness expands government controls and socialist ideologys and controls. They will be cast down by god.

It’s not a winning side you champion for.

I agree the USA is still a good place to live. But it’s a shadow of its former glory. freedoms continue to be eroded. It’s prosperity continue to decline.

And you are somehow happy with that???? Why?

Why is it good that the dollar is worth peanuts compared to what it used to. Why is it good to have lost that much prosperity. Why is it good to have over 50% taxation?

Why are you avoiding those questions?

The Democratic Party sucks. The republicans suck to the same extent. Neither are good for the nation. Because neither are doing God’s will.

Why don’t you answer the question I ask you? Scare of the truth you would have to say?

It sounds like you want to live in 1800. Why did you volunteer to live now?

The Telestial realm isn’t so fun if you are trying to be righteous.

You’re here because you want to help usher in the Second Coming. It will be a battle royale. The things you desire are in the future, not the past.

[Arenera]

Should I remain registered as unaffiliated or should I unregister to vote completely?

Stay registered so if you decide to vote, you can.

[Ezra]

How could we be when we ignore reason and what’s good for us?

How does it ever work out when good people do nothing?
Or how does it work out when people ignore god which is the case.

It works out poor for the people.

1956 a dollar was worth $68 compared to today’s dollar.

How do you like that $67 worth of value of your currency has been stolen since that time?

How can you hide your head in the sand with such blaring transgressions to our wealth and prosperity and somehow call what we have currently as good????
How can you want more of that?

What you want is long gone. Even if you doubled your less than 1% to 1.6%, it isn't going to change anything.

The Republicans will pat themselves on their backs for their tax change, although it adds more debt.

From now until the elections next year, all you will hear is "look how much the rich benefited from the tax plan". The democrats could come back with force.

Still, the US is a good place to live.

Even if wickedness expands government controls and socialist ideologys and controls. They will be cast down by god.

It’s not a winning side you champion for.

I agree the USA is still a good place to live. But it’s a shadow of its former glory. freedoms continue to be eroded. It’s prosperity continue to decline.

And you are somehow happy with that???? Why?

Why is it good that the dollar is worth peanuts compared to what it used to. Why is it good to have lost that much prosperity. Why is it good to have over 50% taxation?

Why are you avoiding those questions?

The Democratic Party sucks. The republicans suck to the same extent. Neither are good for the nation. Because neither are doing God’s will.

Why don’t you answer the question I ask you? Scare of the truth you would have to say?

It sounds like you want to live in 1800. Why did you volunteer to live now?

The Telestial realm isn’t so fun if you are trying to be righteous.

You’re here because you want to help usher in the Second Coming. It will be a battle royale. The things you desire are in the future, not the past.

So are you suggesting that since it’s not fun to be righteous in this day and age to be wicked or to just do nothing?

I see why Ezra Taft bensons warning to the fence sitters hit so close to home for you.

What have I said that has anything to do with wanting to live in the 1800s.

Nothing.

God is the same yesterday today and tomorrow. His gospel principles are the same consistent principles of truth and rightness.

A person from any age or era can follow those principles and find happiness and blessings from following them.

They don’t change They are eternal Like God.

Satan’s plan is the same yesterday today and tomorrow as well.

Using force of government or governing body’s to enslave your fellow men into taking care of the sick needy and helpless. “Socialistic” programs is Satan’s Plan.
By stealing their god given right to own property which includes their labor by force to make them pay for those programs. Satan’s plan is forced on the people.

Why do you support this???

[Ezra]

Should I remain registered as unaffiliated or should I unregister to vote completely?

You could be registered as anything or nothing and wouldn’t matter since you are not going to use it.

It’s like having a sports car parked in your garage that you purposely throw the key away for.

It’s still there. Your just not using it. Even if you take off the make and model plates off the car. It’s still there not being used.