I don't vote

For discussion of political issues in general.
Ezra
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Re: I don't vote

Postby Ezra » Wed Dec 06, 2017 7:04 pm

Arenera wrote:
Wed Dec 06, 2017 6:29 pm
Ezra wrote:
Wed Dec 06, 2017 5:44 pm
Arenera wrote:
Wed Dec 06, 2017 3:18 pm
Ezra wrote:
Wed Dec 06, 2017 1:37 pm
You need to define what honest, wise and good means. It seems some of you call a good man traitorous.


God defines good honest wise. There seems to be a lot of confusion as to what that is even with lds members.

Romney doesn’t fit the good honest wise description for one blaring reason. He doesn’t follow the constitution or it’s principles.

God declared himself the author of the constitution and its principles are defined all over the scriptures.

You cannot be a moral person without following the principles of the constitution.

We know many are called and few chosen. The reason they are not chosen. Unrighteous dominion of their fellow men is one of the main reasons that the scriptures defines.

That happens most with our involvement in government. By our vote and support of people who progress socialist agendas.

Like Welfare. Pubic schools. Medicare Medicaid Obamacare. (Which was drafted by copying romneycare). Social security and numerous other programs in which people’s earnings are stolen from them through taxation (gun point) and distributed to others in some form or another.

That is the main form of unrighteous dominion being practiced in this country. Neighbors stealing from their neighbors through the force of government.

So good moral wise people don’t vote for Romney because he is immoral when it comes to stealing other people’s money through the force of government.
So your definition of good is based on how you interpret the constitution. Less than 1% of the US population agree with your definition of the constitution.

It doesn't sound like you would like Zion, where people are equal and there is no poor. There is no poor because those that have give to those that don't.
Would love Zion because it follows constitutional principles. Where people voluntarily give their earned goods to others. That is the difference between the 2 plans. Jesus and Satan’s. Satan’s plan uses force to compel people Jesus plan uses agency. Satan’s plan is socialism. And how the government is implementing force to take care of the sick needy and old is exactly what Satan’s plan was in the pre existence.

It doesn’t matter that according to you 1% agree with what constitutional principles are. God is the one who defines them to be correct. And the scriptures back it up. The real question is do you agree with god?

You will find if you study that the same morality taught in scriptures is the same morality that is in the constitution. And is why our prophets asked us to study the constitution as well as the federalist papers and scriptures to better understand those principles.

Have you done as the prophets have asked and studied the constitution as well as federalist papers and scriptures to see how they are all the same?

I ask because so far your arguments are typical of someone who has not.

Also I’m surprised you know so little of Zion to not know that it’s voluntary not forced socialism in nature.

I will add this quote.

WE WILL SPEND ETERNITY WITH THOSE WHO WILL ALLOW US NO MORE FREEDOM THAN WE ARE WILLING TO ALLOW THEM.
Over and over again, the scriptures emphasize that we will be judged according to our treatment of our fellowmen. If we are charitable, we will be placed with the sheep in the Lord’s kingdom rather than with the goats in outer darkness. (Matt. 25:31—46) If we forgive, we may be forgiven. (Matt.6:12) If we are just, we may rise in the resurrection of the Just: and dwell with them. (D&C Sec. 76) If we refrain from exercising compulsion unrighteously, our dominion in the hereafter may be everlasting and flow unto us forever and ever without compulsory means. (D&C Sec. 121) In short, we can expect to be treated in the next life as we treat others here.
The exact implementation of this law of the harvest will occur at the end of this life, when we will be divided into groups and each will be consigned to spend eternity with those with whom he is most like. An unjust person will dwell with those who will treat him unjustly; a kind, forgiving person will enjoy the companionship of kind and forgiving associates, etc. But the fact which is important to our discussion here is that each person will be with that group who will allow him to exercise no more freedom than he is willing to allow them.
If, during this life, we have been persuaded to believe that the force of government, or any other agency, should be used to deny our fellowmen the stewardship which God has given them over their families, their property, and their private affairs, we can be very certain that we will be placed with a group in the hereafter who will hold similar views. With such an attitude, we cannot expect to have stewardship or dominions of our own because we do not believe in them for others and neither will those with whom we will dwell believe in them for us. The poetic justice of God decrees that if we deprive our fellow of those unalienable rights which, according to the
Declaration of Independence, they have been endowed by their Creator, we will lose our free agency to the same extent.
H. Verlin. Anderson, “The Great and Abominable Church of the
Devil”


Those who use unrighteous dominion will be dominated by others. Those who use force of government to steal from there neighbors will have all their positions stolen for eternity.

I want agency freedoms and to be treated fairly and not have my things stolen or dictated.

What do you want?
Nice quote. There are 100 Senators. 435 congressmen. 1 President. 9 Supreme Court Justices.

The Senators, Congressmen and President are voted into office. I can cast 1 vote for a Senator, Congressman and President. I do vote.

The less than 1% can vote as a block, and will never elect anyone. That is their choice, their agency.

5 or 6 millions Mormons in the US, large number in Utah, Arizona, Idaho. They might be able to put 1-2 Senators, 1-5 Congressmen, 1-5 Electoral Votes for President. Not much impact there.

1% of the Mormon Votes won’t impact anything either.

Now what are you going to do?
Why don’t you answer my questions?

Also your extreme negative glass is almost completely empty attitude is clouding your vision.

It’s been shown that all it really takes is a few hundred people change the laws. Calling and writing their Congressman makes a huge impact on their perspective of what the people want.

Why because no one does this.

So a few hundred motivated people can make a difference.

Ezra Taft benson said that we as a people (Mormons) could take back control of the out of control government if we educate ourself and band together.

I believe that to still be true.

Unfortunately we have to many fence sitters and people who are to lazy to get involved.

They will be held accountable for their actions.

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Arenera
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Re: I don't vote

Postby Arenera » Wed Dec 06, 2017 7:18 pm

Ezra wrote:
Wed Dec 06, 2017 7:04 pm
Arenera wrote:
Wed Dec 06, 2017 6:29 pm
Ezra wrote:
Wed Dec 06, 2017 5:44 pm
Arenera wrote:
Wed Dec 06, 2017 3:18 pm


So your definition of good is based on how you interpret the constitution. Less than 1% of the US population agree with your definition of the constitution.

It doesn't sound like you would like Zion, where people are equal and there is no poor. There is no poor because those that have give to those that don't.
Would love Zion because it follows constitutional principles. Where people voluntarily give their earned goods to others. That is the difference between the 2 plans. Jesus and Satan’s. Satan’s plan uses force to compel people Jesus plan uses agency. Satan’s plan is socialism. And how the government is implementing force to take care of the sick needy and old is exactly what Satan’s plan was in the pre existence.

It doesn’t matter that according to you 1% agree with what constitutional principles are. God is the one who defines them to be correct. And the scriptures back it up. The real question is do you agree with god?

You will find if you study that the same morality taught in scriptures is the same morality that is in the constitution. And is why our prophets asked us to study the constitution as well as the federalist papers and scriptures to better understand those principles.

Have you done as the prophets have asked and studied the constitution as well as federalist papers and scriptures to see how they are all the same?

I ask because so far your arguments are typical of someone who has not.

Also I’m surprised you know so little of Zion to not know that it’s voluntary not forced socialism in nature.

I will add this quote.

WE WILL SPEND ETERNITY WITH THOSE WHO WILL ALLOW US NO MORE FREEDOM THAN WE ARE WILLING TO ALLOW THEM.
Over and over again, the scriptures emphasize that we will be judged according to our treatment of our fellowmen. If we are charitable, we will be placed with the sheep in the Lord’s kingdom rather than with the goats in outer darkness. (Matt. 25:31—46) If we forgive, we may be forgiven. (Matt.6:12) If we are just, we may rise in the resurrection of the Just: and dwell with them. (D&C Sec. 76) If we refrain from exercising compulsion unrighteously, our dominion in the hereafter may be everlasting and flow unto us forever and ever without compulsory means. (D&C Sec. 121) In short, we can expect to be treated in the next life as we treat others here.
The exact implementation of this law of the harvest will occur at the end of this life, when we will be divided into groups and each will be consigned to spend eternity with those with whom he is most like. An unjust person will dwell with those who will treat him unjustly; a kind, forgiving person will enjoy the companionship of kind and forgiving associates, etc. But the fact which is important to our discussion here is that each person will be with that group who will allow him to exercise no more freedom than he is willing to allow them.
If, during this life, we have been persuaded to believe that the force of government, or any other agency, should be used to deny our fellowmen the stewardship which God has given them over their families, their property, and their private affairs, we can be very certain that we will be placed with a group in the hereafter who will hold similar views. With such an attitude, we cannot expect to have stewardship or dominions of our own because we do not believe in them for others and neither will those with whom we will dwell believe in them for us. The poetic justice of God decrees that if we deprive our fellow of those unalienable rights which, according to the
Declaration of Independence, they have been endowed by their Creator, we will lose our free agency to the same extent.
H. Verlin. Anderson, “The Great and Abominable Church of the
Devil”


Those who use unrighteous dominion will be dominated by others. Those who use force of government to steal from there neighbors will have all their positions stolen for eternity.

I want agency freedoms and to be treated fairly and not have my things stolen or dictated.

What do you want?
Nice quote. There are 100 Senators. 435 congressmen. 1 President. 9 Supreme Court Justices.

The Senators, Congressmen and President are voted into office. I can cast 1 vote for a Senator, Congressman and President. I do vote.

The less than 1% can vote as a block, and will never elect anyone. That is their choice, their agency.

5 or 6 millions Mormons in the US, large number in Utah, Arizona, Idaho. They might be able to put 1-2 Senators, 1-5 Congressmen, 1-5 Electoral Votes for President. Not much impact there.

1% of the Mormon Votes won’t impact anything either.

Now what are you going to do?
Why don’t you answer my questions?

Also your extreme negative glass is almost completely empty attitude is clouding your vision.

It’s been shown that all it really takes is a few hundred people change the laws. Calling and writing their Congressman makes a huge impact on their perspective of what the people want.

Why because no one does this.

So a few hundred motivated people can make a difference.

Ezra Taft benson said that we as a people (Mormons) could take back control of the out of control government if we educate ourself and band together.

I believe that to still be true.

Unfortunately we have to many fence sitters and people who are to lazy to get involved.

They will be held accountable for their actions.
If you can make a difference, do it. Let’s see how it goes.

If Romney does run, we will see how you do.
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Ezra
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Re: I don't vote

Postby Ezra » Wed Dec 06, 2017 7:22 pm

I do make a difference. I have brought many souls closer to Heavenly Father.

If Romney runs makes no difference to me. My vote will go to a constitutional candidate.

Arenera
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Re: I don't vote

Postby Arenera » Wed Dec 06, 2017 8:02 pm

Ezra wrote:
Wed Dec 06, 2017 7:22 pm
I do make a difference. I have brought many souls closer to Heavenly Father.

If Romney runs makes no difference to me. My vote will go to a constitutional candidate.
In Utah, that is less than 1% of the vote, it won’t make a difference in the outcome. Yes, you should vote your conscience.

You can work to get people to support your beliefs. What are those beliefs?
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Arenera
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Re: I don't vote

Postby Arenera » Wed Dec 06, 2017 8:14 pm

Ezra wrote:
Wed Dec 06, 2017 7:22 pm
I do make a difference. I have brought many souls closer to Heavenly Father.

If Romney runs makes no difference to me. My vote will go to a constitutional candidate.
While being completely opposed to it morally, Castle explicitly indicated that same-sex marriage is among the consensual activities in which he believes the government should not be involved.
Not consistent from a Mormon point of view.
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Re: I don't vote

Postby Ezra » Wed Dec 06, 2017 8:32 pm

Arenera wrote:
Wed Dec 06, 2017 8:02 pm
Ezra wrote:
Wed Dec 06, 2017 7:22 pm
I do make a difference. I have brought many souls closer to Heavenly Father.

If Romney runs makes no difference to me. My vote will go to a constitutional candidate.
In Utah, that is less than 1% of the vote, it won’t make a difference in the outcome. Yes, you should vote your conscience.

You can work to get people to support your beliefs. What are those beliefs?
What are my beliefs? I believe the Book of Mormon and d&c to be the most accurate books on the word of god. I believe Joseph Smith was a true prophet. I believe the constitution was created by God. I believe many are called few are chosen because they care too much for the things of the world and practice unrighteous dominion over there fellow men.

1% is few.

Glad to be on the right side of things. Thanks for pointing that out but I think your wrong on that percentage. Utah has many great constitutional people.

At this point from your opinions I also believe you support the unrighteous dominion happenings through our government. Is that correct? Do you think its good to have welfare, social security and other socialist programs?

Ezra
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Re: I don't vote

Postby Ezra » Wed Dec 06, 2017 8:40 pm

Arenera wrote:
Wed Dec 06, 2017 8:14 pm
Ezra wrote:
Wed Dec 06, 2017 7:22 pm
I do make a difference. I have brought many souls closer to Heavenly Father.

If Romney runs makes no difference to me. My vote will go to a constitutional candidate.
While being completely opposed to it morally, Castle explicitly indicated that same-sex marriage is among the consensual activities in which he believes the government should not be involved.




Not consistent from a Mormon point of view.
The government should not be dictating who can get married period. Man and woman man and man woman and woman. They have no authority in the constitution to make laws concerning marriage.

I don’t want gay marriage but I don’t want the government involved in marriage period. the states can make laws concerning marriage if they choose to. But the government simply doesn’t have that authority according to the constitution.

So yes it is consistent with the constitution and god as the author on a federal level.

I’m thinking you should take a class on the constitution.

Arenera
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Re: I don't vote

Postby Arenera » Wed Dec 06, 2017 8:45 pm

Ezra wrote:
Wed Dec 06, 2017 8:32 pm
Arenera wrote:
Wed Dec 06, 2017 8:02 pm
Ezra wrote:
Wed Dec 06, 2017 7:22 pm
I do make a difference. I have brought many souls closer to Heavenly Father.

If Romney runs makes no difference to me. My vote will go to a constitutional candidate.
In Utah, that is less than 1% of the vote, it won’t make a difference in the outcome. Yes, you should vote your conscience.

You can work to get people to support your beliefs. What are those beliefs?
What are my beliefs? I believe the Book of Mormon and d&c to be the most accurate books on the word of god. I believe Joseph Smith was a true prophet. I believe the constitution was created by God. I believe many are called few are chosen because they care too much for the things of the world and practice unrighteous dominion over there fellow men.

1% is few.

Glad to be on the right side of things. Thanks for pointing that out but I think your wrong on that percentage. Utah has many great constitutional people.

At this point from your opinions I also believe you support the unrighteous dominion happenings through our government. Is that correct? Do you think its good to have welfare, social security and other socialist programs?
I like this:
2 And it came to pass in the thirty and sixth year, the people were all converted unto the Lord, upon all the face of the land, both Nephites and Lamanites, and there were no contentions and disputations among them, and every man did deal justly one with another.

3 And they had all things common among them; therefore there were not rich and poor, bond and free, but they were all made free, and partakers of the heavenly gift.
Because the greeders don’t share with the poor, laws are made like welfare. You don’t like welfare, but you don’t have a solution to help the poor. You don’t like ObamaCare, but you do nothing about the food industry that has created the medical crisis that we now have in the US, because you just want greedy businesses to do what they please. The reason there are so many democrats is because the greeders don’t help the poor.

The Constitution Party would only make things worse. They support polygamy by the way.
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Ezra
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Re: I don't vote

Postby Ezra » Wed Dec 06, 2017 9:05 pm

Arenera wrote:
Wed Dec 06, 2017 8:45 pm
Ezra wrote:
Wed Dec 06, 2017 8:32 pm
Arenera wrote:
Wed Dec 06, 2017 8:02 pm
Ezra wrote:
Wed Dec 06, 2017 7:22 pm
I do make a difference. I have brought many souls closer to Heavenly Father.

If Romney runs makes no difference to me. My vote will go to a constitutional candidate.
In Utah, that is less than 1% of the vote, it won’t make a difference in the outcome. Yes, you should vote your conscience.

You can work to get people to support your beliefs. What are those beliefs?
What are my beliefs? I believe the Book of Mormon and d&c to be the most accurate books on the word of god. I believe Joseph Smith was a true prophet. I believe the constitution was created by God. I believe many are called few are chosen because they care too much for the things of the world and practice unrighteous dominion over there fellow men.

1% is few.

Glad to be on the right side of things. Thanks for pointing that out but I think your wrong on that percentage. Utah has many great constitutional people.

At this point from your opinions I also believe you support the unrighteous dominion happenings through our government. Is that correct? Do you think its good to have welfare, social security and other socialist programs?
I like this:
2 And it came to pass in the thirty and sixth year, the people were all converted unto the Lord, upon all the face of the land, both Nephites and Lamanites, and there were no contentions and disputations among them, and every man did deal justly one with another.

3 And they had all things common among them; therefore there were not rich and poor, bond and free, but they were all made free, and partakers of the heavenly gift.
Because the greeders don’t share with the poor, laws are made like welfare. You don’t like welfare, but you don’t have a solution to help the poor. You don’t like ObamaCare, but you do nothing about the food industry that has created the medical crisis that we now have in the US, because you just want greedy businesses to do what they please. The reason there are so many democrats is because the greeders don’t help the poor.

The Constitution Party would only make things worse. They support polygamy by the way.
So does the lds church and d&c 132. What’s your point?

But your wrong on everything else. There is a solution. It’s the solution that god stated in the constitution. To not have the government involved in anything other then maintaining our freedoms. Period.

If people were not being taxed 50-85% on average they could take care of the sick and needy themselves. They would take care of their own retirements their own health insurance.

If the government wasn’t unnaturally propping up certain business creating monopolies we wouldn’t have the crazy imbalances of crazy Rich and poor classes. Plus the food industry’s which survive with government support. would go out of business for poor quality foods they peddle to competitors with good quality food.

God is and has always been well aware of the solution.

And ps. I do help the poor. I also don’t partake in welfare or Medicare of Obamacare. We have our own medical saving account and retirement accounts.

How you might ask. Because I also listen to the lord when he said don’t go into debt. So I worked hard saved and payed for my property in cash. I also am very unworldly. We grow almost all our own food. Our bills average about 3k a year which makes it really easy to save.

Listening to our prophets and god is a wonderful thing.

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Re: I don't vote

Postby Fiannan » Wed Dec 06, 2017 9:12 pm

Arenera wrote:
Wed Dec 06, 2017 8:02 pm
Ezra wrote:
Wed Dec 06, 2017 7:22 pm
I do make a difference. I have brought many souls closer to Heavenly Father.

If Romney runs makes no difference to me. My vote will go to a constitutional candidate.
In Utah, that is less than 1% of the vote, it won’t make a difference in the outcome. Yes, you should vote your conscience.

You can work to get people to support your beliefs. What are those beliefs?
What do you think of Evan McMuffin?
"One of the penalties for refusing to participate in politics is that you end up being governed by your inferiors."
Plato

Arenera
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Re: I don't vote

Postby Arenera » Wed Dec 06, 2017 9:28 pm

This is what the First Presidency says on the political process:
Dear Brothers and Sisters:

Political Participation, Voting, and the Political Neutrality of the Church

As citizens we have the privilege and duty of electing office holders and influencing public policy. Participation in the political process affects our communities and nation today and in the future. We urge Latter-day Saints to be active citizens by registering and then regularly exercising their right to vote.

We also urge you to spend the time needed to become informed about the issues and candidates you will be considering as you vote. Along with the options available to you through the Internet, debates, and other sources, the Church occasionally posts information about particular moral issues on which it has taken a position at www.MormonNewsroom.org.

Latter-day Saints as citizens are to seek out and then uphold leaders who will act with integrity and are wise, good, and honest. Principles compatible with the gospel may be found in various political parties and candidates.

While the Church affirms its institutional neutrality regarding political parties and candidates, members should fully participate in the political process. The Church also affirms its constitutional right of expression on political and social issues.

Sincerely yours,
Thomas S. Monson
Henry B. Eyring
Dieter F. Uchtdorf
The First Presidency
They don’t say to vote for the Constitution Party, or any other party. Which party you vote for is not asked in the Temple Recommend Interview.

So your thought about being held responsible is just your way of trying to get people to your beliefs.
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Re: I don't vote

Postby Fiannan » Wed Dec 06, 2017 10:23 pm

So your thought about being held responsible is just your way of trying to get people to your beliefs.
Is this what was said to the 1/3 who voted to side with Lucifer?
"One of the penalties for refusing to participate in politics is that you end up being governed by your inferiors."
Plato

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Re: I don't vote

Postby simpleton » Thu Dec 07, 2017 6:54 am

Arenera wrote:
Wed Dec 06, 2017 9:28 pm
This is what the First Presidency says on the political process:
Dear Brothers and Sisters:


Latter-day Saints as citizens are to seek out and then uphold leaders who will act with integrity and are wise, good, and honest. Principles compatible with the gospel may be found in various political parties and candidates.

Sincerely yours,
Thomas S. Monson
Henry B. Eyring
Dieter F. Uchtdorf
The First Presidency
"principles compatible with the gospel"

Well that above piece of advise just threw Romney out the window along with Ried, ( although Ried retired from his corrupt political career so now we are relieved from him)...

I vote for..... none of the above....

This 2 party system here in America is from hell itself. If you study about the Federal governments war against the church in the 1800's specially towards the end of that century you will find that it was not so much the " polygamy" question that they fought against ( although that was most definitely the best smoking gun that fired up the people). But it was the unity of the saints that they were really after. They wanted, ( and they accomplished it) to break the religious and political unity of the saints. In Illinois whoever the Mormons voted for won as they held the swing vote. Same thing in Utah. So up until the time that the "horn" that made war with the saints and "prevailed" Mormons dominated politics in the territory of Deseret. So the federal government set about to break the saints and completely disfranchised the Latter Day Saints plus seized all of the churches property plus broke up the church corporation until we compromised. The famous or infamous "manifesto" is not what caused the federal government to back off and return their property and restore their right to vote and " forgive" the awful polygamous leaders... It was not until the leaders of the church literally divided their wards, stakes, etc. into democrats and republicans to be like the rest of the country that the feds forgave them... Read it, it is our history... and the rest is history... So here we are today suffering the consequences of a corrupt 2 party system when we actually should be United as one like into Enoch and his Zion. And until the Saints will unite like as one man in purpose, we will continue to suffer political corruption and war between the 2 party system.
It is the unity of man that pleases God, not our existing political system of war and strife. But when the majority of the people choose wickedness, as we are doing today, we shall and are suffering the consequences. When those secret combinations rise above us, and they have, we shall suffer the consequences. Instead of becoming a " light upon a hill" we have immersed ourselves into the Babylonian system of party strife. We should be voting as one, of one heart and one mind. We should be voting for just one candidate, as in instead of having a Democrat candidate and a Republican candidate constantly fighting each other, we should have a candidate of the people.....
But I guess I am just a dreamer...

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Re: I don't vote

Postby CelestialAngel » Thu Dec 07, 2017 11:58 am

Isn't it using agency and a freedom of this country to choose not to vote? Don't force me to do anything I don't want to do.

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Re: I don't vote

Postby CelestialAngel » Thu Dec 07, 2017 11:51 pm

Ok if I do plan on registering to vote in 2018 for the midterms and ballot initiatives, what political party should I register under and why? Give me reasons why I would register as either a Republican, Democrat, Libertarian, Independent, or Unaffiliated.

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Re: I don't vote

Postby lundbaek » Fri Dec 08, 2017 12:01 am

You might consider looking into what the Lord and LDS Prophets have said on the subjects of the US Constitution, freedom/liberty, and the civic responsibilities of Latter-day Saints.

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Re: I don't vote

Postby ParticleMan » Fri Dec 08, 2017 6:30 am

Government is of God, but none in particular as presently constituted. Regardless of how corrupt a government is, we are to be involved in the political process and support the principles of the US Constitution regardless of the impact our actions may or may not have.

Recognizing that the system is corrupt does not justify inaction or anarchy. Our involvement is less about our votes and more about our hearts in relationship to God and our keeping of his commandments.


Consider this by David O. McKay on our eventual PPI with the Savior:

"Let my assure you, brethren, that some day you will have a personal priesthood interview with the Savior, himself. If you are interested, I will tell you the order in which he will ask you to account for your earthly responsibilities.

"First, he will request an accountability report about your relationship with your wife. Have you actively been engaged in making her happy and ensuring that her needs have been met as an individual?

"Second, he will want an accountability report about each of your children individually. He will not attempt to have this for simply a family stewardship but will request information about your relationship to each and every child.

"Third, he will want to know what you personally have done with the talents you were given in the pre-existence.

"Fourth, he will want a summary of your activity in your church assignments. He will not be necessarily interested in what assignments you have had, for in his eyes the home teacher and a mission president are probably equals, but he will request a summary of how you have been of service to your fellow men in your church assignments.

"Fifth, he will have no interest in how you earned your living, but if you were honest in all your dealings.

"Sixth, he will ask for an accountability on what you have done to contribute in a positive manner to your community, state, country and the world."



What counsel might we infer from the sixth point above?

On civic matters, how important is agency to God? How important is agency to us? How might our agency and our defending the agency of others apply?

Why register with a party (whether obviously corrupt or ostensibly correct) if you can vote for your choice of candidates without registering?

How do we balance promoting righteousness and defending agency? Do we not follow the brethren? But are they always correct in their counsel and policies relative to defending agency? Are there some correct principles that should be enforced by law and others that should not?
Last edited by ParticleMan on Fri Dec 08, 2017 9:18 am, edited 1 time in total.

buffalo_girl
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Re: I don't vote

Postby buffalo_girl » Fri Dec 08, 2017 7:39 am

If they aren't criminal when first elected, they will be corrupted before the end of their terms.

In every election - county, state, or federal - I vote for the opposing candidate so that every term has a brand new person for that particular office. It keeps the entire 'system' off balance; no alliances have time to collude; no time to be bribed or blackmailed to any great degree. They are OUT after every term.

What do they do, anyway? The LESS government, the better!

Your SHERIFF is probably the most important person to KNOW. He is trusted to protect the lawful interests and RIGHTS of people within The County in which he is elected.

Ours went absolutely corrupt in the past couple of years. He was taken in by the mercenary group TigerSwan's manipulation of law enforcement during Energy Transfer Partners massive pipeline project through North Dakota. In our county, he turned on local landowners who expressed concern over an aggressive corporate agenda, along with obvious disregard for quality and placement of construction. He even stood 150 miles from our county with LE from other states, National Guard, and TigerSwan operatives to abuse Native Americans expressing outrage over the pipeline traversing 1/2 mile from their only community water source. (Many of those Native Americans are members of the LDS Church, including the President of Ft Yates Branch.) Even local law enforcement now works for the Globalists - on our dime, mind you!

IF in all conscience I cannot endorse a candidate put before me, I write in someone I know would represent me. There are fewer and fewer decent choices.

I wrote in, "The Prince of Peace" in the last presidential election.

In the 'Monk' series, Monk's nurse, Sharona, was asked about voting. "Oh, I NEVER vote. It only encourages them."

For the record, I have always voted as an independent. I did register Republican during the Ron Paul campaign so I could vote as a 'state delegate', but witnessed first hand the absolute 'rigging' of the Republican Party process and outcome. I'm done with any 'party politics'!

lundbaek
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Re: I don't vote

Postby lundbaek » Fri Dec 08, 2017 9:42 am

Our new Maricopa County (AZ) sheriff was elected mostly because he made it clear he would not enforce immigration laws. Many prominent LDS authorities in this county support illegal immigration and amnesty, hence supported his candidacy.

This may or may not be the same in your states, but here in Arizona it is easy and dirt cheap to be an independent write-in candidate for the U.S. House of Representatives. [ https://apps.azsos.gov/apps/election/ca ... ction/6519 ]. In 2008 I did just that and even though I knew I didn't have a prayer's chance in a barroom, I campaigned mostly by email, some by snail mail, and a few presentations including a TV interview. This afforded me the chance to present my beliefs and opinions on many important issues and to express my concern that we need to get out FedGov back on the Constitution track. My actual, ulterior motive was to persuade and remind the many LDS voters in my district of their responsibility to understand, uphold and abide by the US Constitution. Bottom line, with the help of other supporters I reached over 1000 LDS voters with my message, which was basically that they/we must understand, uphold and abide by the US Constitution. Interesting that the only flak I got was from members of our ward. But even so, those folks got the message whether they wanted it or not. It has been suggested that I do this again. A constitutional friend and resident of another state offered me considerable financial backing if I would run as a Republican. That would be a waste because the Republican Party would marginalize me and I'd get no opportunity to present my case. But I may go for it again as an independent write-in candidate, which would keep me in the running all the way until November. I'm telling you all this as a suggestion because I think some of you (I'm tempted to name user names) could do a great job and awaken a lot of people to understand, uphold and abide by the US Constitution. Some of you could do a better job of it than I can.

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Re: I don't vote

Postby Arenera » Fri Dec 08, 2017 9:57 am

lundbaek wrote:
Fri Dec 08, 2017 9:42 am
Our new Maricopa County (AZ) sheriff was elected mostly because he made it clear he would not enforce immigration laws. Many prominent LDS authorities in this county support illegal immigration and amnesty, hence supported his candidacy.

This may or may not be the same in your states, but here in Arizona it is easy and dirt cheap to be an independent write-in candidate for the U.S. House of Representatives. [ https://apps.azsos.gov/apps/election/ca ... ction/6519 ]. In 2008 I did just that and even though I knew I didn't have a prayer's chance in a barroom, I campaigned mostly by email, some by snail mail, and a few presentations including a TV interview. This afforded me the chance to present my beliefs and opinions on many important issues and to express my concern that we need to get out FedGov back on the Constitution track. My actual, ulterior motive was to persuade and remind the many LDS voters in my district of their responsibility to understand, uphold and abide by the US Constitution. Bottom line, with the help of other supporters I reached over 1000 LDS voters with my message, which was basically that they/we must understand, uphold and abide by the US Constitution. Interesting that the only flak I got was from members of our ward. But even so, those folks got the message whether they wanted it or not. It has been suggested that I do this again. A constitutional friend and resident of another state offered me considerable financial backing if I would run as a Republican. That would be a waste because the Republican Party would marginalize me and I'd get no opportunity to present my case. But I may go for it again as an independent write-in candidate, which would keep me in the running all the way until November. I'm telling you all this as a suggestion because I think some of you (I'm tempted to name user names) could do a great job and awaken a lot of people to understand, uphold and abide by the US Constitution. Some of you could do a better job of it than I can.
That is being active in politics. Still, it is a 1% solution. How are you going to change the Federal Reserve if you are only 1%.

A vote for Romney gives you a chance to make changes.
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Re: I don't vote

Postby lundbaek » Fri Dec 08, 2017 10:06 am

I do not think we will be able to reverse the course into tyranny that America is on now. Those "murderous combinations" that Moroni, and more recently President Boyd Packer warned us about have gotten above us. I look to "The Cleansing of America", as outlined by Dr. W.C. Skousen in his book of that title, for understanding of what to expect - after having read carefully the scriptural and other references he used to document his opinions. However, I still feel constrained to continue pursuing my personal agenda, which is why I have been active in the East Valley Tea Party, the John Birch Society, the Constitution in the Classroom program, and the Arizona and Maricopa County Constitution Parties.

Among my personal goals is doing what I can toward helping to prepare a people to restore the American government to its proper role of protecting our God-given and inalienable rights when opportunity arises . This includes:

1.) making Latter-day Saints aware of their divinely mandated responsibilities to study, uphold and abide by the principles of the US Constitution in the tradition of the Founding Fathers, or as the Founders meant it to be understood, and to understand and support the proper role of government according to gospel principles. This involves promoting awareness of what I believe is a doctrinal imperative or divine mandate to learn and abide by the principles of the US Constitution as He who established it intends it to be understood.

2.) making people aware of the conspiracy to overthrow the freedoms of all lands, nations, and countries and establish a single global government. The plan to establish a global government includes gaining control over and making a shambles of America and destroying what is left of our constitutional republic government and turning our nation into a highly centralized socialist state.


My agenda is to help prepare that remnant that will help restore the Constitution after the "CLEANSING", although I rarely mention the cleansing. People, especially Latter-day Saints gotta learn about these things, even if they are not prophetic priorities. I guess they never were, but since 1987 they have gone from the "back burner' to the trash bucket.

buffalo_girl
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Re: I don't vote

Postby buffalo_girl » Fri Dec 08, 2017 10:18 am

A vote for Romney gives you a chance to make changes.
If you are talking about Romney upholding The Constitution, he "will have to ask his lawyers first".

Fiannan
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Re: I don't vote

Postby Fiannan » Fri Dec 08, 2017 12:52 pm

Be nice to Romney, he supports every position on every issue.
"One of the penalties for refusing to participate in politics is that you end up being governed by your inferiors."
Plato

CelestialAngel
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Re: I don't vote

Postby CelestialAngel » Fri Dec 08, 2017 3:27 pm

Can someone explain to me the differences between the Republican and Libertarian parties on what makes them different?

Arenera
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Re: I don't vote

Postby Arenera » Fri Dec 08, 2017 3:39 pm

lundbaek wrote:
Fri Dec 08, 2017 10:06 am
I do not think we will be able to reverse the course into tyranny that America is on now. Those "murderous combinations" that Moroni, and more recently President Boyd Packer warned us about have gotten above us. I look to "The Cleansing of America", as outlined by Dr. W.C. Skousen in his book of that title, for understanding of what to expect - after having read carefully the scriptural and other references he used to document his opinions. However, I still feel constrained to continue pursuing my personal agenda, which is why I have been active in the East Valley Tea Party, the John Birch Society, the Constitution in the Classroom program, and the Arizona and Maricopa County Constitution Parties.

Among my personal goals is doing what I can toward helping to prepare a people to restore the American government to its proper role of protecting our God-given and inalienable rights when opportunity arises . This includes:

1.) making Latter-day Saints aware of their divinely mandated responsibilities to study, uphold and abide by the principles of the US Constitution in the tradition of the Founding Fathers, or as the Founders meant it to be understood, and to understand and support the proper role of government according to gospel principles. This involves promoting awareness of what I believe is a doctrinal imperative or divine mandate to learn and abide by the principles of the US Constitution as He who established it intends it to be understood.

2.) making people aware of the conspiracy to overthrow the freedoms of all lands, nations, and countries and establish a single global government. The plan to establish a global government includes gaining control over and making a shambles of America and destroying what is left of our constitutional republic government and turning our nation into a highly centralized socialist state.


My agenda is to help prepare that remnant that will help restore the Constitution after the "CLEANSING", although I rarely mention the cleansing. People, especially Latter-day Saints gotta learn about these things, even if they are not prophetic priorities. I guess they never were, but since 1987 they have gone from the "back burner' to the trash bucket.
Let’s analyze a little. At what point do you consider the constitution to be acceptable. For example, after the civil war?

Follow up, what are the top 10 grievances you have today where you consider we are out of line?
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CelestialAngel
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Re: I don't vote

Postby CelestialAngel » Fri Dec 08, 2017 3:50 pm

I did some research and it seems I lean more towards Libertarian than Republican and definitely not Democrat, so I'm going to register to vote as a Libertarian with a non partisan ballot.

Ezra
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Re: I don't vote

Postby Ezra » Fri Dec 08, 2017 4:12 pm

Ezra Taft benson said in his book “An enemy hath done” this.

That the line of thinking that Satan used to deceive 1/3 of hosts in heaven in the Pre-existence is the same that he uses today to effectively neutralize the majority of the church members.

That destructive line of thinking is this. Don’t worry about the war in heaven just do what you think is right.

That line of thinking made the 1/3 of host of heaven into fence sitters. And the lord cast them out.

Satan uses that same line today with the battle for are agency that still rages on since the Pre-existence. The battle front is our involvement in government. Satan says don’t worry about politics. Just do what you think is right. Go to church pay your tithing. Just don’t get involved in politics. Don’t vote. Just go to church.

Ezra Taft benson also said that he believed that those who were tricked by that same line of thinking today would share in similar consequences as those in the pre-existence.

Arenera
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Re: I don't vote

Postby Arenera » Fri Dec 08, 2017 5:33 pm

Ezra wrote:
Fri Dec 08, 2017 4:12 pm
Ezra Taft benson said in his book “An enemy hath done” this.

That the line of thinking that Satan used to deceive 1/3 of hosts in heaven in the Pre-existence is the same that he uses today to effectively neutralize the majority of the church members.

That destructive line of thinking is this. Don’t worry about the war in heaven just do what you think is right.

That line of thinking made the 1/3 of host of heaven into fence sitters. And the lord cast them out.

Satan uses that same line today with the battle for are agency that still rages on since the Pre-existence. The battle front is our involvement in government. Satan says don’t worry about politics. Just do what you think is right. Go to church pay your tithing. Just don’t get involved in politics. Don’t vote. Just go to church.

Ezra Taft benson also said that he believed that those who were tricked by that same line of thinking today would share in similar consequences as those in the pre-existence.
This is over the top, so similar to the Remnants.

Just so you know, our current President, Thomas Monson hasn’t said anything about this.

Really, less than 1 % and you are sending 99% of Mormons to the fence sitting place. When you say things like this, you lose your entire argument.
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Re: I don't vote

Postby Ezra » Fri Dec 08, 2017 5:56 pm

Arenera wrote:
Fri Dec 08, 2017 5:33 pm
Ezra wrote:
Fri Dec 08, 2017 4:12 pm
Ezra Taft benson said in his book “An enemy hath done” this.

That the line of thinking that Satan used to deceive 1/3 of hosts in heaven in the Pre-existence is the same that he uses today to effectively neutralize the majority of the church members.

That destructive line of thinking is this. Don’t worry about the war in heaven just do what you think is right.

That line of thinking made the 1/3 of host of heaven into fence sitters. And the lord cast them out.

Satan uses that same line today with the battle for are agency that still rages on since the Pre-existence. The battle front is our involvement in government. Satan says don’t worry about politics. Just do what you think is right. Go to church pay your tithing. Just don’t get involved in politics. Don’t vote. Just go to church.

Ezra Taft benson also said that he believed that those who were tricked by that same line of thinking today would share in similar consequences as those in the pre-existence.
This is over the top, so similar to the Remnants.

Just so you know, our current President, Thomas Monson hasn’t said anything about this.

Really, less than 1 % and you are sending 99% of Mormons to the fence sitting place. When you say things like this, you lose your entire argument.
He doesn’t have to. It’s already been said

2 Nephi 28:30

30 For behold, thus saith the Lord God: I will give unto the children of men line upon line, precept upon precept, here a little and there a little; and blessed are those who hearken unto my precepts, and lend an ear unto my counsel, for they shall learn wisdom; for unto him that receiveth I will give more; and from them that shall say, We have enough, from them shall be taken away even that which they have.


The problem is only according to you 1% which is totally and number you pull out of a hat by the way. Have listened. The number is higher then you care to admit though.

Many more then 1 % have listened. But for the rest of the people like yourself God won’t be giving more according to him in the above scripture . Why would he when people have failed to listen with what has been said so many times.

President Monson doesn’t need to say it again. In fact it could be that the spirit restrains him for doing so like what happens so many times with the prophets who wrote the Book of Mormon the spirit restrained them from saying what they wanted to.


A great talk on the subject of the above scripture and of the lord withdrawing his voice when people don’t listen as well as talking about the importance of our involvement in politics is from Ezra Taft benson conference oct 1965.

Here is a copy of the talk.


Ezra Taft Benson, Conference Report, April 1965, pp. 121-125

In 1831 the Lord said this to his Church:

"For behold, it is not meet that I should command in all things; for he that is compelled in all things, the same is a slothful and not a wise servant; wherefore he receiveth no reward.

"Verily I say, men should be anxiously engaged in a good cause, and do many things of their own free will, and bring to pass much righteousness;

"For the power is in them, wherein they are agents unto themselves. And inasmuch as men do good they shall in nowise lose their reward.

"But he that doeth not anything until he is commanded, and receiveth a commandment with doubtful heart, and keepeth it with slothfulness, the same is damned" (D&C 58:26-29).

The purposes of the Lord—the great objectives—continue the same: the salvation and exaltation of his children.

Objectives and Guide Lines

Usually the Lord gives us the overall objectives to be accomplished and some guidelines to follow, but he expects us to work out most of the details and methods. The methods and procedures are usually developed through study and prayer and by living so that we can obtain and follow the promptings of the Spirit. Less spiritually advanced people, such as those in the days of Moses, had to be commanded in many things. Today those spiritually alert look at the objectives, check the guidelines laid down by the Lord and his prophets, and then prayerfully act—without having to be commanded "in all things." This attitude prepares men for godhood.

The overall objective to be accomplished in missionary work, temple work, providing for the needy, and bringing up our children in righteousness has always been the same; only our methods to accomplish these objectives have varied. Any faithful member in this dispensation, no matter when he lived, could have found righteous methods to have carried out these objectives without having to wait for the latest, specific church-wide program.

His Children To Act on Their Own Initiative and Responsibility

Sometimes the Lord hopefully waits on his children to act on their own, and when they do not, they lose the greater prize, and the Lord will either drop the entire matter and let them suffer the consequences or else he will have to spell it out in greater detail. Usually, I fear, the more he has to spell it out, the smaller is our reward.

Often, because of circumstances, the Lord, through revelation to his prophets or through inspired programs designed by faithful members which later become adopted on a church-wide basis, will give to all the membership a righteous means to help accomplish the objective; for instance, any member of the Church a century ago who studied church doctrine would have known that he had the prime responsibility to see that his children had spiritualized family recreation and were taught in the home lessons in character building and gospel principles. But some did not do it.

The Home Evening

Then, in 1915 President Joseph F. Smith introduced, church-wide, the "weekly home evening program" with promised blessings to all who faithfully adopted it. Many refused and lost the promised blessings. (At the October conference, 1947, I referred to that promise in a talk on the Family Home Evening.) Today we have the home evening manual and other helps. Yet some still refuse to bring up their children in righteousness.

But there are some today who complain that the home evening manual should have been issued years ago. If this is true then the Lord will hold his servants accountable, but no one can say that from the inception of the Church up to the present day the Lord through his Spirit to the individual members and through his spokesmen, the prophets, has not given us the objectives and plenty of guidelines and counsel. The fact that some of us have not done much about it even when it is spelled out in detail is not the Lord's fault.

For years we have been counseled to have on hand a year's supply of food. Yet there are some today who will not start storing until the Church comes out with a detailed monthly home storage program. Now suppose that never happens. We still cannot say we have not been told.

Should the Lord decide at this time to cleanse the Church—and the need for that cleansing seems to be increasing—a famine in this land of one year's duration could wipe out a large percentage of slothful members, including some ward and stake officers. Yet we cannot say we have not been warned.

Another warning: You and I sustain one man on this earth as God's mouthpiece—President David O. McKay—one of the greatest seers who has ever walked this earth. We do not need a prophet—we have one—what we desperately need is a listening ear.

Warnings of Threats to Freedom

Should it be of concern to us when the mouthpiece of the Lord keeps constantly and consistently raising his voice of warning about the loss of our freedom as he has over the years? There are two unrighteous ways to deal with his prophetic words of warning: you can fight them or you can ignore them. Either course will bring you disaster in the long run.

Hear his words: "No greater immediate responsibility rests upon members of the Church, upon all citizens of this Republic and of neighboring Republics than to protect the freedom vouchsafed by the Constitution of the United States." (Cited in Jerreld L. Newquist, Prophets, Principles and National Survival [SLC: Publishers Press, 1964], p. 157.) As important as are all other principles of the gospel, it was the freedom issue which determined whether you received a body. To have been on the wrong side of the freedom issue during the war in heaven meant eternal damnation. How then can Latter-day Saints expect to be on the wrong side in this life and escape the eternal consequences? The war in heaven is raging on earth today. The issues are the same: "Shall men be compelled to do what others claim is for their best welfare" or will they heed the counsel of the prophet and preserve their freedom?

Satan argued that men given their freedom would not choose correctly, therefore he would compel them to do right and save us all. Today Satan argues that men given their freedom do not choose wisely; therefore a so-called brilliant, benevolent few must establish the welfare government and force us into a greater socialistic society. We are assured of being led into the promised land as long as we let them put a golden ring in our nose. In the end we lose our freedom and the promised land also. No matter what you call it—communism, socialism, or the welfare state—our freedom is sacrificed. We believe the gospel is the greatest thing in the world; why then do we not force people to join the Church if they are not smart enough to see it on their own? Because this is Satan's way, not the Lord's plan. The Lord uses persuasion and love.

Hear again the words of God's mouthpiece: "Today two mighty forces are battling for the supremacy of the world. The destiny of mankind is in the balance. It is a question of God and liberty, or atheism and slavery . . .

"Those forces are known and have been designated by Satan on the one hand, and Christ on the other.

"In Joshua's time they were called 'gods of the Amorites,' for one, and 'the Lord' on the other . . . In these days, they are called 'domination by the state,' on one hand, 'personal liberty,' on the other; communism on one, free agency on the other" (Ibid., pp. 215-216).

Now, the Lord knew that before the gospel could flourish there must first be an atmosphere of freedom. This is why he first established the Constitution of this land through gentiles whom he raised up (D&C 101:80) before he restored the gospel. In how many communist countries today are we doing missionary work, building chapels, etc.? And yet practically every one of those countries have been pushed into communism and kept under communism with the great assistance of evil forces which have and are operating within our own country and neighboring lands.

Yes, were it not for the tragic policies of governments—including our own—tens of millions of people murdered and hundreds of millions enslaved since World War II would be alive and free today to receive the restored gospel.

President J. Reuben Clark, Jr., put it clearly and courageously when he said:

"Reduced to its lowest terms, the great struggle which now rocks the whole earth more and more takes on the character of a struggle of the individual versus the state . . .

"This gigantic worldwide struggle, more and more takes on the form of a war to the death. We shall do well and wisely so to face and so to enter it. And we must all take part. Indeed, we all are taking part in that struggle, whether we will or not. Upon its final issue, liberty lives or dies . . . The plain and simple issue now facing us in America is freedom or slavery . . . We have largely lost the conflict so far waged. But there is time to win the final victory, if we sense our danger, and fight." (Ibid., pp. 318, 327-328.)

Now where do we stand in this struggle, and what are we doing about it?

The devil knows that if the elders of Israel should ever wake up, they could step forth and help preserve freedom and extend the gospel. Therefore the devil has concentrated, and to a large extent successfully, in neutralizing much of the priesthood. He has reduced them to sleeping giants. His arguments are clever.

Here are a few samples:

First: "We really haven't received much instruction about freedom," the devil says. This is a lie, for we have been warned time and again. No prophet of the Lord has ever issued more solemn warning than President David O. McKay. Last conference I spoke of a book embodying much of the prophets' warnings on freedom from Joseph Smith to David O. McKay which I commend to you. It is entitled Prophets, Principles, and National Survival.

Second: "You're too involved in other church work," says the devil. But freedom is a weighty matter of the law; the lesser principles of the gospel you should keep but not leave this one undone. We may have to balance and manage our time better. Your other church work will be limited once you lose your freedom as our Saints have found out in Czechoslovakia, Poland, and many other nations.

Third: "You want to be loved by everyone," says the devil, "and this freedom battle is so controversial you might be accused of engaging in politics." Of course the government has penetrated so much of our lives that one can hardly speak for freedom without being accused of being political. Some might even call the war in heaven a political struggle—certainly it was controversial. Yet the valiant entered it with Michael. Those who support only the popular principles of the gospel have their reward. And those who want to lead the quiet, retiring life but still expect to do their full duty can't have it both ways.

Said Elder John A. Widtsoe:

"The troubles of the world may largely be laid at the doors of those who are neither hot nor cold; who always follow the line of least resistance; whose timid hearts flutter at taking sides for truth. As in the great Council in the heavens, so in the Church of Christ on earth, there can be no neutrality" (Ibid., p. 440).

Fourth: "Wait until it becomes popular to do," says the devil, "or, at least until everybody in the Church agrees on what should be done." But this fight for freedom might never become popular in our day. And if you wait until everybody agrees in this Church, you will be waiting through the second coming of the Lord. Would you have hesitated to follow the inspired counsel of the Prophet Joseph Smith simply because some weak men disagreed with him? God's living mouthpiece has spoken to us—are we for him or against him? In spite of the Prophet's opposition to increased federal aid and compulsory unionism, some church members still champion these freedom destroying programs. Where do you stand?

Fifth: "It might hurt your business or your family," says the devil, "and besides why not let the gentiles save the country? They aren't as busy as you are." Well, there were many businessmen who went along with Hitler because it supposedly helped their business. They lost everything. Many of us are here today because our forefathers loved truth enough that they fought at Valley Forge or crossed the plains in spite of the price it cost them or their families. We had better take our small pain now than our greater loss later. There were souls who wished afterwards that they had stood and fought with Washington and the founding fathers, but they waited too long—they passed up eternal glory. There has never been a greater time than now to stand up against entrenched evil. And while the gentiles established the Constitution, we have a divine mandate to preserve it. But unfortunately today in this freedom struggle, many gentiles are showing greater wisdom in their generation than the children of light (Luke 16:8).

Sixth: "Don't worry," says the devil, "the Lord will protect you, and besides the world is so corrupt and heading toward destruction at such a pace that you can't stop it, so why try." Well, to begin with, the Lord will not protect us unless we do our part. This devilish tactic of persuading people not to get concerned because the Lord will protect them no matter what they do is exposed by the Book of Mormon. Referring to the devil, it says, "And others will he pacify, and lull them away into carnal security, and they will say: All is well in Zion, yea, Zion prospereth, all is well—and thus the devil cheateth their souls, and leadeth them away carefully down to hell" (2 Ne. 28:21).

I like that word "carefully." In other words, don't shake them, you might awake them. But the Book of Mormon warns us that when we should see these murderous conspiracies in our midst that we should awake to our awful situation. Now why should we awake if the Lord is going to take care of us anyway? Now let us suppose that it is too late to save freedom. It is still accounted unto us for righteousness' sake to stand up and fight. Some Book of Mormon prophets knew of the final desolate end of their nations, but they still fought on, and they saved some souls including their own by so doing. For, after all, the purpose of life is to prove ourselves, and the final victory will be for freedom.

But many of the prophecies referring to America's preservation are conditional. That is, if we do our duty we can be preserved, and if not then we shall be destroyed. This means that a good deal of the responsibility lies with the priesthood of this Church as to what happens to America and as to how much tragedy can be avoided if we do act now.

And now as to the last neutralizer that the devil uses most effectively—it is simply this: "Don't do anything in the fight for freedom until the Church sets up its own specific program to save the Constitution." This brings us right back to the scripture I opened with today—to those slothful servants who will not do anything until they are "compelled in all things." Maybe the Lord will never set up a specific church program for the purpose of saving the Constitution. Perhaps if he set one up at this time it might split the Church asunder, and perhaps he does not want that to happen yet for not all the wheat and tares are fully ripe (D&C 86:7).

The Prophet Joseph Smith declared it will be the elders of Israel who will step forward to help save the Constitution, not the Church. And have we elders been warned? Yes, we have. And have we elders been given the guide lines? Yes indeed, we have. And besides, if the Church should ever inaugurate a program, who do you think would be in the forefront to get it moving? It would not be those who were sitting on the sidelines prior to that time or those who were appeasing the enemy. It would be those choice spirits who, not waiting to be "commanded in all things" (D&C 58:26), used their own free will, the counsel of the prophets, and the Spirit of the Lord as guidelines and who entered the battle "in a good cause" and brought to pass much righteousness in freedom's cause.

Years ago Elder Joseph F. Merrill of the Council of the Twelve encouraged the members of the Church to join right-to-work leagues and President Heber J. Grant concurred. For our day President David O. McKay has called communism the greatest threat to the Church, and it is certainly the greatest mortal threat this country has ever faced. What are you doing to fight it?

"The War in Heaven" Is Raging on Earth Today

Brethren, if we had done our homework and were faithful, we could step forward at this time and help save this country. The fact that most of us are unprepared to do it is an indictment we will have to bear. The longer we wait, the heavier the chains, the deeper the blood, the more the persecution, and the less we can carry out our God-given mandate and worldwide mission. The war in heaven is raging on earth today. Are you being neutralized in the battle?

"Verily I say, men should be anxiously engaged in a good cause, and do many things of their own free will, and bring to pass much righteousness;

"For the power is in them, wherein they are agents unto themselves" (D&C 58:27-28).

In the name of Jesus Christ. Amen.
Last edited by Ezra on Fri Dec 08, 2017 6:14 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Ezra
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Re: I don't vote

Postby Ezra » Fri Dec 08, 2017 6:01 pm

Arenera

On a side note I have noticed that with your comments you don’t seem interested in helping others understand and better themselves. Help lift them up to a better understand. You seem more interested in just arguing for the sake of the argument.

I would challenge you in your posts to try to lift other up. Help them understand how and why a better way to think would be. Back it up by scriptures and facts and above all with love.


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