What do you make of this message?

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Gage
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Re: What do you make of this message?

Postby Gage » Mon Dec 04, 2017 12:51 pm

We shouldn't be surprised at the state of our society when what society digests is bad messages, degrading messages and filth. women are always sexualized and I find it offensive. I, as a female, completely understand why this type of portrayal is depressing, it like a woman is never good enough. Even the magazines selling lotions and makeup etc, all based on the idea that it's NEEDED because your not attractive. And never mind the shame it can bring to women having their bodies portrayed all over the world in lust-full light.
If your not a female, you may not understand this.

If roles were reversed what then? What would we call the men complaining or wanting something different than what society has given them?

Feminist is a word I'm tired of hearing, especially from Lds. Lds should care deeply about females and to respect and honor them understanding the eternal nature of all women. But...then comes the polygamy junk that kind of puts women right back in the pot.

Tired of it all
[/quote]


Who exactly are you blaming? Are you blaming the half dressed woman that dressed herself or someone else? Are you blaming society as a whole for the way many females flaunt their bodies in minimal dress? Who exactly is sexualizing women? Could it be women doing it to themselves or do we just blame men for it like everything else.

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Rensai
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Re: What do you make of this message?

Postby Rensai » Mon Dec 04, 2017 1:30 pm

Michelle wrote:
Mon Dec 04, 2017 11:00 am
MMbelieve wrote:
Sun Dec 03, 2017 10:01 pm
simpleton wrote:
Sun Dec 03, 2017 9:33 pm
The overall article just confirms all the more how up to our eyeballs in Babylon we are. Personally I am all about tradition, father working by the sweat of his brow bringing home the bacon and mother making the house a home and refuge, and both of them becoming one in purpose, yet each a distinct individual being, each complimenting the other in their unique God givin roles in life and neither one usurping or supplanting each other.
Holly crap wood is completely opposed to the traditional family, and their demonic influence is everywhere. A complete reversal of family values is upon us today. Large family's are a scorned thing of the past, considered to be trailer trash. Amazing how the adversary has turned America upside down.
The way Hollywood portrays women is disgusting and insulting to being a wife and a mother. The sooner it literally burns, the better off society will be. But I guess Hollywood is a reflection of our society, or, we are a reflection of it, or probably both.
The worst thing that ever happened to the family is the wife/woman going into the workforce. Being a good wife and a mother far surpasses anything that the corporate world has to offer. If she was offered the presidency of the United States it would be quite a step down from being a good mother.
Personally the woman I admire the most is the mother that devotes herself to the raising of her children to be children of God... There are it seems extenuating circumstances but they should be few and very far between. But as our society is, under existing conditions, that is not the case, as again, we are fully encompassed in Babylon....
The problem is more than women entering the workforce. There are many factors that make it hard for the traditional family to work and work well. Everything cost so much these days and far too many men cannot support a medium size family on their sole income, let alone a large family. I don't like it when the blame is placed on women when there are plenty of men who dont have the same drive as you mentioned in your post.
I know that it can be done. As another posted mentioned, it has more to do with lifestyle than whether it is possible or not.

President Uchtdorf last night in the Christmas Devotional said it is not a sin to be poor. He is right. We have found it to be a profound blessing. We have learned skills we would not have otherwise. We have remained self reliant and avoided debt. We have built up our food storage and eaten healthier than we would have otherwise. I am as weak as anybody, so HAVING to make hard choices has made me so much stronger than if I had been offered a financially easy life. I might have chosen the same as others and had the same problems as they have. My writings below are not to brag but to share my testimony (the same one shared by William Bradford in The History of Plimouth Plantation) that the happiest and most blessed times are often found in the ones most people consider poor.

Just some examples:

I do think it is funny how many people assume because we have 7 kids and wear clean but modest (modest meaning that it is not fancy or name brand, just lots of jeans and plain t-shirts) clothing that we are poor, or worse, that we are being supported by anyone but ourselves. (I always tell our kids we are the richest people in the neighborhood because we have no debt and something in savings, not to mention food storage!)

We had 5 kids when we lived in a two bedroom apartment and didn't take food stamps, or medicaid, or anything else that we didn't earn ourselves (not even public school.) We also didn't carry debt or buy things we didn't need or couldn't afford. We ate healthier than most, BECAUSE we couldn't afford to do otherwise. I have seen a lot of benefits from not having the financial resources of others. So much easier to tell the kid no we are not going to buy a tv or gaming system and the computer is a tool not a toy.

We even walked to the grocery store with our big bike stroller to get our groceries. It was awesome. My kids don't need multivitamins (the sun gives us our Vitamin D and our food the rest.) They are not obese and I have no fear of them becoming such. They know how to prepare real food from scratch (no boxes and they can run the wheat grinder for flour.)

All things we may not have done if we had the resources to do otherwise. (Meaning putting stuff above having kids.)

Now, this is again, not to brag, but the bearing of my testimony that we made a choice: kids over stuff and mom at home. It has been the right choice. I really believe that very few people (mostly single parents or those with a disabled spouse) need to have mom work. Yes, even in today's world.

As an update, we do now have 7 kids. We do own our own home (Something I seriously thought might never happen.) We actually have, not just one car to get my husband to work, but a car to drive to the grocery store too. We still wear a lot of jeans and t-shirts and eat homemade food from scratch. And for all their kid-like weaknesses (they are just kids) I have no fears about them in the future. I see the same frugality, resourcefulness and healthy habits they were raised into.

My only fear now is them finding spouses that are on the same page as they get older. But I've been praying for their spouses since they were babies, so I think that is going to work out. ;)
I was trying not to get into the details of my life, but your description of your family life sounds eerily familiar I just have to post. My family lived in a 2 bedroom apartment with 4 kids for years, we also used the baby stroller to cart groceries home, etc. We never took any welfare from the gov or church and like you said, also still built up food storage and met our family's needs, if barely at times; I remember literally digging through seat cushions, etc to scrape up enough change to buy some diapers or something to help get by til payday. It was tough and we learned a lot. It took us 10 years of marriage to get in a position to buy our first home, a very old, very cheap, fixer upper type home, but it was wonderful to have that house.

I met my wife at age 16. My wife and I got married at 18. She is 2 months older than me, which was enough to put her 1 year ahead of me in school. She had graduated and been working and had a couple thousand dollars saved to help us get our first car and get started. I on the other hand, had graduated high school almost exactly one month before getting married and had nothing. On top of that, our first child came one month after marriage. We made a lot of mistakes and had about as hard a start in married life as you can. I had to work full time for barely more than minimum wage while also attending college full time, racking up a mountain of student loan debt along the way. I think we lived on less than 20k per year for those first 5-6 years of marriage with no help or welfare other than bumming an extra 100 bucks off my parents from time to time. We had a really hard start, but we managed to always keep my wife at home with the kids. If we can do it, pretty much anyone can, barring disabilities, single parenthood, etc.

Anyway, Its nice to hear your story and hear that there is someone else out there doing similar things to what my wife and I did, choosing to be poor and keep mom at home. I also agree with your concern about finding good spouses for our children as well. Not many seem to be on that same page. I remember getting a lot of condescending remarks and odd looks over the years, but looking back, I'm glad we did it anyway. Being poor was a good experience. I'm glad that time has passed, it was hard, but I'm thankful for the lessons learned as well.

My wife and I were reminiscing about this just the other day. My current job pays pretty darn good and not too long ago we splurged and bought a car that is only a couple years old for 18 thousand. My wife has been feeling guilty that we spent so much even though she really enjoys having a nice, reliable car. We started doing the math and realized that before that car, ALL previous cars from the first 18 years of marriage combined, cost less than that one car, by quite a bit. :lol: Our first car cost 1500 bucks and we didn't spend much more on the rest. All combined, we owned 3 cars and an old pickup during those years that cost a little over 12k combined. We drove some real crappy cars for many years. The kind that everyone can't help but laugh at when they see. My wife handled that ok, but for me it was harder, I had to learn a lot more humility.

Living on one income is really hard, but the results are worth it imho. I know my kids have benefited a lot from having mom home with them. Even after they all started school I still think it made a big difference. We talked about having my wife work once they were all in school and decided against it and its been great for our family.

My wife has 6 married sisters, all with at least 3 kids each, and several with more. I don't have an exact count, but I know her family has about 25 grand kids. Among all those grand kids, my kids are the most popular, all the other kids like them the best and want to play with them the most. Every one of her sisters has commented that our kids are the best behaved, most helpful, nicest, etc. Grandma has commented several times to them that they should all try doing whatever we're doing to teach the kids. That's mostly my wife's work. I help of course, but I credit most of those results to having my wife stay home full time, focusing on taking care of the family and teaching the kids.

Honestly, I've always felt a little jealous of my wife. I work hard to take care of my family too, but my wife, who works directly with the kids way more, gets all the credit; one way or another mom gets most of their appreciation and affection. Those kids will remember her and what she has done for them forever. Hopefully they'll appreciate my contribution more when they're older, but I don't get why anyone would want to take some money making job over being with their kids. Stay at home moms can make a huge difference not only for their kids, but also grand kids, etc. Money and stuff is no substitute for that time lost. Most jobs really don't make much of a difference for anyone. They just pay the bills. I'd love to trade my wife places and stay home with the kids. I won't because I know shes better at it than I would be, but I don't understand why any woman would want to miss out on that.

Feminists who look down on stay at home moms and pretend their meaningless jobs are better than being a mom are just dead wrong. Don't listen to them. Find a way to stay home with the kids, its worth it.
I know nothing and I can prove it.

MMbelieve
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Re: What do you make of this message?

Postby MMbelieve » Mon Dec 04, 2017 1:44 pm

Rensai wrote:
Mon Dec 04, 2017 10:09 am
MMbelieve wrote:
Sun Dec 03, 2017 10:01 pm
simpleton wrote:
Sun Dec 03, 2017 9:33 pm
The overall article just confirms all the more how up to our eyeballs in Babylon we are. Personally I am all about tradition, father working by the sweat of his brow bringing home the bacon and mother making the house a home and refuge, and both of them becoming one in purpose, yet each a distinct individual being, each complimenting the other in their unique God givin roles in life and neither one usurping or supplanting each other.
Holly crap wood is completely opposed to the traditional family, and their demonic influence is everywhere. A complete reversal of family values is upon us today. Large family's are a scorned thing of the past, considered to be trailer trash. Amazing how the adversary has turned America upside down.
The way Hollywood portrays women is disgusting and insulting to being a wife and a mother. The sooner it literally burns, the better off society will be. But I guess Hollywood is a reflection of our society, or, we are a reflection of it, or probably both.
The worst thing that ever happened to the family is the wife/woman going into the workforce. Being a good wife and a mother far surpasses anything that the corporate world has to offer. If she was offered the presidency of the United States it would be quite a step down from being a good mother.
Personally the woman I admire the most is the mother that devotes herself to the raising of her children to be children of God... There are it seems extenuating circumstances but they should be few and very far between. But as our society is, under existing conditions, that is not the case, as again, we are fully encompassed in Babylon....
The problem is more than women entering the workforce. There are many factors that make it hard for the traditional family to work and work well. Everything cost so much these days and far too many men cannot support a medium size family on their sole income, let alone a large family. I don't like it when the blame is placed on women when there are plenty of men who dont have the same drive as you mentioned in your post.
There's some truth to that. It is harder to get by on one income today. Statistics show, real income, adjusted for real inflation, has steadily gone down since the mid 70's. As you said, stuff costs a lot more and wages are not very good. However, it can still be done. I know it can because I did it, as did many others I know.

I think if you're willing to sacrifice having nice stuff, God will help you make it work with one income. The problem I see, is materialism. I see so many LDS say they have to have 2 incomes, but then you see they are driving really nice cars, spending tons on expensive decorations for their houses, etc. They could easily cut that stuff and go to one income but the truth is, they value their stuff more than their children having a full time mom.

As for the article in the OP, I think its very clear that is SJW whining. How can anyone not see that? Another example of how much Babylon is affecting the church/members.
It's hard to make it on one income in this world unless your husband has a good paying job and 100% job security. It's not always always a matter of ditching the expensive nice things.

Expecting a man to carry the burden of finances all by himself and perfectly is not good thinking. People get sick, hurt, die, get laid off, get fired, go to school or training, change jobs to be HAPPIER etc. If a man gets laid off (through no fault of his own) shall he get in gov. assistance (and be scored by fellow judgemental LDS?) use his unemployment (a decent thing to do but may not cover bills), get any job like walmart cashier (this would require debt or wife getting a job) or go back to school to retrain (again, debt debt debt) or move his entire family for a job in his field (and hear the backlash from wife, kids and sell his home and aquire some debt in moving). So, when he geta back on his feet, who pays the debt? He does, with his paycheck that also is paying for the house, utilities, insurrance, doctors, dentists, food, cars, clothes, etc etc.

Point is, to expect a man to work 50 years minimum to provide perfectly while allowing for no hiccups is unreasonable. Do men have the same 50 year expectations on women?

Yes a man providing and a woman caring for a house full of kids is ideal but very few obtain and maintain ideal.

I don't like it when women are looked down upon as a whole for working outside the home. My mother has been looked down upon for working outside the home....AND SHE HAS NO KIDS AT HOME TO CARE FOR!! Don't get it

Who really cares how a family makes things work for their family? People need to relax and get out more to see that their ideals are not reality for most of the world.

MMbelieve
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Re: What do you make of this message?

Postby MMbelieve » Mon Dec 04, 2017 2:03 pm

Michelle wrote:
Mon Dec 04, 2017 11:00 am
MMbelieve wrote:
Sun Dec 03, 2017 10:01 pm
simpleton wrote:
Sun Dec 03, 2017 9:33 pm
The overall article just confirms all the more how up to our eyeballs in Babylon we are. Personally I am all about tradition, father working by the sweat of his brow bringing home the bacon and mother making the house a home and refuge, and both of them becoming one in purpose, yet each a distinct individual being, each complimenting the other in their unique God givin roles in life and neither one usurping or supplanting each other.
Holly crap wood is completely opposed to the traditional family, and their demonic influence is everywhere. A complete reversal of family values is upon us today. Large family's are a scorned thing of the past, considered to be trailer trash. Amazing how the adversary has turned America upside down.
The way Hollywood portrays women is disgusting and insulting to being a wife and a mother. The sooner it literally burns, the better off society will be. But I guess Hollywood is a reflection of our society, or, we are a reflection of it, or probably both.
The worst thing that ever happened to the family is the wife/woman going into the workforce. Being a good wife and a mother far surpasses anything that the corporate world has to offer. If she was offered the presidency of the United States it would be quite a step down from being a good mother.
Personally the woman I admire the most is the mother that devotes herself to the raising of her children to be children of God... There are it seems extenuating circumstances but they should be few and very far between. But as our society is, under existing conditions, that is not the case, as again, we are fully encompassed in Babylon....
The problem is more than women entering the workforce. There are many factors that make it hard for the traditional family to work and work well. Everything cost so much these days and far too many men cannot support a medium size family on their sole income, let alone a large family. I don't like it when the blame is placed on women when there are plenty of men who dont have the same drive as you mentioned in your post.
I know that it can be done. As another posted mentioned, it has more to do with lifestyle than whether it is possible or not.

President Uchtdorf last night in the Christmas Devotional said it is not a sin to be poor. He is right. We have found it to be a profound blessing. We have learned skills we would not have otherwise. We have remained self reliant and avoided debt. We have built up our food storage and eaten healthier than we would have otherwise. I am as weak as anybody, so HAVING to make hard choices has made me so much stronger than if I had been offered a financially easy life. I might have chosen the same as others and had the same problems as they have. My writings below are not to brag but to share my testimony (the same one shared by William Bradford in The History of Plimouth Plantation) that the happiest and most blessed times are often found in the ones most people consider poor.

Just some examples:

I do think it is funny how many people assume because we have 7 kids and wear clean but modest (modest meaning that it is not fancy or name brand, just lots of jeans and plain t-shirts) clothing that we are poor, or worse, that we are being supported by anyone but ourselves. (I always tell our kids we are the richest people in the neighborhood because we have no debt and something in savings, not to mention food storage!)

We had 5 kids when we lived in a two bedroom apartment and didn't take food stamps, or medicaid, or anything else that we didn't earn ourselves (not even public school.) We also didn't carry debt or buy things we didn't need or couldn't afford. We ate healthier than most, BECAUSE we couldn't afford to do otherwise. I have seen a lot of benefits from not having the financial resources of others. So much easier to tell the kid no we are not going to buy a tv or gaming system and the computer is a tool not a toy.

We even walked to the grocery store with our big bike stroller to get our groceries. It was awesome. My kids don't need multivitamins (the sun gives us our Vitamin D and our food the rest.) They are not obese and I have no fear of them becoming such. They know how to prepare real food from scratch (no boxes and they can run the wheat grinder for flour.)

All things we may not have done if we had the resources to do otherwise. (Meaning putting stuff above having kids.)

Now, this is again, not to brag, but the bearing of my testimony that we made a choice: kids over stuff and mom at home. It has been the right choice. I really believe that very few people (mostly single parents or those with a disabled spouse) need to have mom work. Yes, even in today's world.

As an update, we do now have 7 kids. We do own our own home (Something I seriously thought might never happen.) We actually have, not just one car to get my husband to work, but a car to drive to the grocery store too. We still wear a lot of jeans and t-shirts and eat homemade food from scratch. And for all their kid-like weaknesses (they are just kids) I have no fears about them in the future. I see the same frugality, resourcefulness and healthy habits they were raised into.

My only fear now is them finding spouses that are on the same page as they get older. But I've been praying for their spouses since they were babies, so I think that is going to work out. ;)
No argument that it can be done.
A woman should never marry expecting that she may not at some point need to be able to pull in some income though.

To me, expecting a man to never have any financial hiccups is akin to expecting a woman to never have a breakdown and need to get away from the kids. Yes, kids are 24/7 and a job is not (usually) but to me it's trying to express a point.

We expect perfection in the duties of a man...but can they expect perfection from us wives? No, that doesn't go over very well does it? We get hurt and offended when husbands don't understand or cater to a need or desire...ARE we sensitive to our husbands and their struggles and fears/concerns etc? Or do we expect then to shut up and do their job?

When I got married, the advice or counsel my father gave me was "don't leave the financial burden just to my husband". Was he expecting me to sacrifice my duties as as wife and a mother to lessen his burdens as the provider...NO.
He was giving me a piece of valuable insight into the struggle and burden he carries as a man to provide for a family and softening my heart to what burden my new husband will begin carrying.

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Rensai
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Re: What do you make of this message?

Postby Rensai » Mon Dec 04, 2017 2:19 pm

MMbelieve wrote:
Mon Dec 04, 2017 1:44 pm
It's hard to make it on one income in this world unless your husband has a good paying job and 100% job security. It's not always always a matter of ditching the expensive nice things.

Expecting a man to carry the burden of finances all by himself and perfectly is not good thinking. People get sick, hurt, die, get laid off, get fired, go to school or training, change jobs to be HAPPIER etc.
Yep, its hard. It takes a lot of work and faith.
MMbelieve wrote:
Mon Dec 04, 2017 1:44 pm
If a man gets laid off (through no fault of his own) shall he get in gov. assistance (and be scored by fellow judgemental LDS?) use his unemployment (a decent thing to do but may not cover bills), get any job like walmart cashier (this would require debt or wife getting a job) or go back to school to retrain (again, debt debt debt) or move his entire family for a job in his field (and hear the backlash from wife, kids and sell his home and aquire some debt in moving).
I've had almost all of these things happen, except the Gov assistance, but we did have to move into my parents basement for about 6 months after being laid off. We got by though. And who cares what Judgemental LDS think? That's not even worth worrying about.
MMbelieve wrote:
Mon Dec 04, 2017 1:44 pm
So, when he geta back on his feet, who pays the debt? He does, with his paycheck that also is paying for the house, utilities, insurrance, doctors, dentists, food, cars, clothes, etc etc.
Been there done that. Its hard.
MMbelieve wrote:
Mon Dec 04, 2017 1:44 pm
Point is, to expect a man to work 50 years minimum to provide perfectly while allowing for no hiccups is unreasonable. Do men have the same 50 year expectations on women?
I agree, expect hiccups and get food storage, emergency cash, etc ready.
MMbelieve wrote:
Mon Dec 04, 2017 1:44 pm
Yes a man providing and a woman caring for a house full of kids is ideal but very few obtain and maintain ideal.
Few obtain it because few try from what I've seen at least.
MMbelieve wrote:
Mon Dec 04, 2017 1:44 pm
I don't like it when women are looked down upon as a whole for working outside the home. My mother has been looked down upon for working outside the home....AND SHE HAS NO KIDS AT HOME TO CARE FOR!! Don't get it
That's a whole different problem. I don't think anyone has said anything to imply looking down on those who work outside the home. Everyone's circumstances are different. All I've said is that I think many more could do it if they really wanted to make the effort. I think that is 100% true. There is no judgement for any specific person in anything I've said and I certainly didn't mean to imply any judgement of you or anyone else. I don't know anything about your circumstances.

I will also point out that the reverse happens at least as often or more in the church these days. My wife gets all kinds of crap from other women who work and assume she must be very lazy or something to be a stay at home mom.
MMbelieve wrote:
Mon Dec 04, 2017 1:44 pm
Who really cares how a family makes things work for their family? People need to relax and get out more to see that their ideals are not reality for most of the world.
God cares. He outlined what he wants. I'm sure there are many good reasons. Sure there are exceptions, but again, many use the exception excuse to justify doing what they want. That is their business, but they're missing out on the blessings they could get by following God's recommendation. Why are you so defensive? Don't you believe God knows better than you what the best arrangement for the family is? Don't you think he can help families who commit to what he wants get by?
29 Are not two sparrows sold for a farthing? and one of them shall not fall on the ground without your Father.

30 But the very hairs of your head are all numbered.

31 Fear ye not therefore, ye are of more value than many sparrows.
God knows our situation and life down to the smallest detail. He can help us get by. I know beyond all doubt he has done that for my family time and time again. He has helped my family with unexpected money, a friend who shows up randomly who can help take care of problem, etc. so many times I can't even count them all.
I know nothing and I can prove it.

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passionflower
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Re: What do you make of this message?

Postby passionflower » Mon Dec 04, 2017 4:06 pm

Fiannan wrote:
Mon Dec 04, 2017 12:02 pm
Michelle wrote:
Mon Dec 04, 2017 11:04 am
Now to the article: Deseret News wants to be seen as unbiased so I often see articles that are ridiculous and I figure they are just putting out what their readers are reading. But really, who cares what the movies portray? I don't understand why people are even wasting their time on this trash. Live in the real world and skip the drama.
Sadly, entertainment affects the culture. I still remember that back in the 1970s it was fairly rare for regular high school student females to use vulgar language. However, when cable (uncensored) entertainment hit the community I lived in there was significant change to where females began to have just as bad of language as the loser guys (the ones who hung out behind the store and skipped class to get stoned).

Soap operas have also been credited with drastically reducing the birthrate in Latin America. I would propose that TV in the USA has done likewise. And now we see the normalization of homosexuality thanks in large part to shows like Will and Grace as well as today many of the shows that aim at women have gay men as the norm.
This problem of sexualizing people in just inherent in movie making. Way back in the days of silent films, it was discovered that players with sex appeal sold more tickets and the "star system" was born, causing a huge transition from giving credit to the director to the "star". Perfectly good actresses who were staples from the DW Griffith era, like Marjory Wilson, went the way of the dodo and got replaced by the "IT" girls. Never mind that Thomas Hart westerns had morally appropriate endings that raised ideals and gave hope. He still got replaced by Tom Mix who was a better maverick type "action" hero( a milder word for "violent") and made more money at the box office Think of movie stars like Clark Gable, Cary Grant, Gregory Peck, William Holden, Marlon Brando, Hedy Lamarr, Gene Tierney, Lana Turner, Elizabeth Taylor, Marilyn Monroe, Mae West just to name a few. It is easy to see what they all have in common

Blatantly labeled as "sex symbols" and set up as gods and goddesses, this onscreen sex appeal made studios lots of money. Rhett Butler was nearly the whole draw in the 1938 David O Selznick "Gone With the Wind". And even though absolutely NOTHING happens plot wise for weeks on end, there are soap operas that have been popular for this same reason.

So I am saying the sexualizing of women( and men ) is nothing new to film. It's the nature of the thing if you want to make money. Busby Berkley tried having ordinary everyday girls doing his unique dance routines and this turned out to be a joke. He had to have beautiful girls with incredible figures and great legs, whose eyes and smiles were flatteringly inviting, open, and exceptionally friendly.

Speaking of the gay romance theme, Wasn't there a movie called Basic Instinct where Sharon Stone plays a lesbian? Well she wasn't exactly plain and ugly, is she? But the character she played sort of had NO character and the whole gay and lesbian community was up in arms about it. Sure they want to put openly homosexual people into mainstream movies, and they want to play games with your head by forcing the stereotype of all gay characters being nothing but sweet and lovable.

Thank goodness for the few decades when the Hays Code came into being. Now all we have is a rating system, for whatever that's worth.

As for female action heroines who engage in dangerous exploits, well, Wonder Woman is hardly the first one. The serial "Perils of Pauline" brought people back breathlessly to the theatre week after week. And "Pauline" could have just been any girl? No. She had to be good looking, have great legs and figure that she didn't mind immodeslly showing off in all her daring and courageous action sequences.

The making of a movie is very expensive these days and they go out to worldwide audiences. The studios HAVE to have a return. Therefore, the producers have to relate the movie to people on one, two, or three or the most common denominators all people everywhere can relate to. Those common denominators are: SEX, VIOLENCE, and last and sorry to say of the least value: "SENTIMENT". Combine all these together, and you have Wonder Woman. ( I have to know these things, I am a writer )

Movies stars are set up as idols. People will pay good money for their autograph, tear at their clothes, scream and faint at their sight and treat their posters like gold. From the beginnings of the studio "Star" system, they were imitated with enthusiasm in clothing, make up, mannerisms, smoking and drinking, and even morals. You have no idea how much your life has been impacted because of a popular movie star, and I blame Hollywood for popularizing the nonfeeling-strong-silent-tough-guy stereotype who consumed more coffee than food, that became some masculine standard for many years. The selfish and irresponsible behaviour of too many of the female sex symbols, their many marraiges, divorces, alcoholism, abortions, etc in adfinitum ad nauseum unfortunately never seemed to discourage their fans, who still loved them, excused them, and still wanted to be just like them. This is the power of sex appeal combined with a perceived popular and powerful image.

Going to the movies is something "everybody" does. It is virtually an entrenched social institution There is more excitement about the wait for the next installment of Star Wars than the Second Coming.

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Re: What do you make of this message?

Postby passionflower » Mon Dec 04, 2017 4:10 pm

Michelle wrote:
Mon Dec 04, 2017 11:00 am
MMbelieve wrote:
Sun Dec 03, 2017 10:01 pm
simpleton wrote:
Sun Dec 03, 2017 9:33 pm
The overall article just confirms all the more how up to our eyeballs in Babylon we are. Personally I am all about tradition, father working by the sweat of his brow bringing home the bacon and mother making the house a home and refuge, and both of them becoming one in purpose, yet each a distinct individual being, each complimenting the other in their unique God givin roles in life and neither one usurping or supplanting each other.
Holly crap wood is completely opposed to the traditional family, and their demonic influence is everywhere. A complete reversal of family values is upon us today. Large family's are a scorned thing of the past, considered to be trailer trash. Amazing how the adversary has turned America upside down.
The way Hollywood portrays women is disgusting and insulting to being a wife and a mother. The sooner it literally burns, the better off society will be. But I guess Hollywood is a reflection of our society, or, we are a reflection of it, or probably both.
The worst thing that ever happened to the family is the wife/woman going into the workforce. Being a good wife and a mother far surpasses anything that the corporate world has to offer. If she was offered the presidency of the United States it would be quite a step down from being a good mother.
Personally the woman I admire the most is the mother that devotes herself to the raising of her children to be children of God... There are it seems extenuating circumstances but they should be few and very far between. But as our society is, under existing conditions, that is not the case, as again, we are fully encompassed in Babylon....
The problem is more than women entering the workforce. There are many factors that make it hard for the traditional family to work and work well. Everything cost so much these days and far too many men cannot support a medium size family on their sole income, let alone a large family. I don't like it when the blame is placed on women when there are plenty of men who dont have the same drive as you mentioned in your post.
I know that it can be done. As another posted mentioned, it has more to do with lifestyle than whether it is possible or not.

President Uchtdorf last night in the Christmas Devotional said it is not a sin to be poor. He is right. We have found it to be a profound blessing. We have learned skills we would not have otherwise. We have remained self reliant and avoided debt. We have built up our food storage and eaten healthier than we would have otherwise. I am as weak as anybody, so HAVING to make hard choices has made me so much stronger than if I had been offered a financially easy life. I might have chosen the same as others and had the same problems as they have. My writings below are not to brag but to share my testimony (the same one shared by William Bradford in The History of Plimouth Plantation) that the happiest and most blessed times are often found in the ones most people consider poor.

Just some examples:

I do think it is funny how many people assume because we have 7 kids and wear clean but modest (modest meaning that it is not fancy or name brand, just lots of jeans and plain t-shirts) clothing that we are poor, or worse, that we are being supported by anyone but ourselves. (I always tell our kids we are the richest people in the neighborhood because we have no debt and something in savings, not to mention food storage!)

We had 5 kids when we lived in a two bedroom apartment and didn't take food stamps, or medicaid, or anything else that we didn't earn ourselves (not even public school.) We also didn't carry debt or buy things we didn't need or couldn't afford. We ate healthier than most, BECAUSE we couldn't afford to do otherwise. I have seen a lot of benefits from not having the financial resources of others. So much easier to tell the kid no we are not going to buy a tv or gaming system and the computer is a tool not a toy.

We even walked to the grocery store with our big bike stroller to get our groceries. It was awesome. My kids don't need multivitamins (the sun gives us our Vitamin D and our food the rest.) They are not obese and I have no fear of them becoming such. They know how to prepare real food from scratch (no boxes and they can run the wheat grinder for flour.)

All things we may not have done if we had the resources to do otherwise. (Meaning putting stuff above having kids.)

Now, this is again, not to brag, but the bearing of my testimony that we made a choice: kids over stuff and mom at home. It has been the right choice. I really believe that very few people (mostly single parents or those with a disabled spouse) need to have mom work. Yes, even in today's world.

As an update, we do now have 7 kids. We do own our own home (Something I seriously thought might never happen.) We actually have, not just one car to get my husband to work, but a car to drive to the grocery store too. We still wear a lot of jeans and t-shirts and eat homemade food from scratch. And for all their kid-like weaknesses (they are just kids) I have no fears about them in the future. I see the same frugality, resourcefulness and healthy habits they were raised into.

My only fear now is them finding spouses that are on the same page as they get older. But I've been praying for their spouses since they were babies, so I think that is going to work out. ;)
Michelle, you are so inspiring here and are a woman with a mission. I am really impressed.
And I have to say that Simpletons' wife is seriously amazing, too. I admire her greatly and hold her in complete awe.

Michelle
captain of 100
Posts: 609
Joined: Fri May 12, 2017 2:33 pm

Re: What do you make of this message?

Postby Michelle » Mon Dec 04, 2017 5:52 pm

MMbelieve wrote:
Mon Dec 04, 2017 1:44 pm
Rensai wrote:
Mon Dec 04, 2017 10:09 am
MMbelieve wrote:
Sun Dec 03, 2017 10:01 pm
simpleton wrote:
Sun Dec 03, 2017 9:33 pm
The overall article just confirms all the more how up to our eyeballs in Babylon we are. Personally I am all about tradition, father working by the sweat of his brow bringing home the bacon and mother making the house a home and refuge, and both of them becoming one in purpose, yet each a distinct individual being, each complimenting the other in their unique God givin roles in life and neither one usurping or supplanting each other.
Holly crap wood is completely opposed to the traditional family, and their demonic influence is everywhere. A complete reversal of family values is upon us today. Large family's are a scorned thing of the past, considered to be trailer trash. Amazing how the adversary has turned America upside down.
The way Hollywood portrays women is disgusting and insulting to being a wife and a mother. The sooner it literally burns, the better off society will be. But I guess Hollywood is a reflection of our society, or, we are a reflection of it, or probably both.
The worst thing that ever happened to the family is the wife/woman going into the workforce. Being a good wife and a mother far surpasses anything that the corporate world has to offer. If she was offered the presidency of the United States it would be quite a step down from being a good mother.
Personally the woman I admire the most is the mother that devotes herself to the raising of her children to be children of God... There are it seems extenuating circumstances but they should be few and very far between. But as our society is, under existing conditions, that is not the case, as again, we are fully encompassed in Babylon....
The problem is more than women entering the workforce. There are many factors that make it hard for the traditional family to work and work well. Everything cost so much these days and far too many men cannot support a medium size family on their sole income, let alone a large family. I don't like it when the blame is placed on women when there are plenty of men who dont have the same drive as you mentioned in your post.
There's some truth to that. It is harder to get by on one income today. Statistics show, real income, adjusted for real inflation, has steadily gone down since the mid 70's. As you said, stuff costs a lot more and wages are not very good. However, it can still be done. I know it can because I did it, as did many others I know.

I think if you're willing to sacrifice having nice stuff, God will help you make it work with one income. The problem I see, is materialism. I see so many LDS say they have to have 2 incomes, but then you see they are driving really nice cars, spending tons on expensive decorations for their houses, etc. They could easily cut that stuff and go to one income but the truth is, they value their stuff more than their children having a full time mom.

As for the article in the OP, I think its very clear that is SJW whining. How can anyone not see that? Another example of how much Babylon is affecting the church/members.
It's hard to make it on one income in this world unless your husband has a good paying job and 100% job security. It's not always always a matter of ditching the expensive nice things.

Expecting a man to carry the burden of finances all by himself and perfectly is not good thinking. People get sick, hurt, die, get laid off, get fired, go to school or training, change jobs to be HAPPIER etc. If a man gets laid off (through no fault of his own) shall he get in gov. assistance (and be scored by fellow judgemental LDS?) use his unemployment (a decent thing to do but may not cover bills), get any job like walmart cashier (this would require debt or wife getting a job) or go back to school to retrain (again, debt debt debt) or move his entire family for a job in his field (and hear the backlash from wife, kids and sell his home and aquire some debt in moving). So, when he geta back on his feet, who pays the debt? He does, with his paycheck that also is paying for the house, utilities, insurrance, doctors, dentists, food, cars, clothes, etc etc.

Point is, to expect a man to work 50 years minimum to provide perfectly while allowing for no hiccups is unreasonable. Do men have the same 50 year expectations on women?

Yes a man providing and a woman caring for a house full of kids is ideal but very few obtain and maintain ideal.

I don't like it when women are looked down upon as a whole for working outside the home. My mother has been looked down upon for working outside the home....AND SHE HAS NO KIDS AT HOME TO CARE FOR!! Don't get it

Who really cares how a family makes things work for their family? People need to relax and get out more to see that their ideals are not reality for most of the world.
Your assuming that the trials and surprises of life don't hit everyone. My husband was laid off 3 weeks after our 3rd baby was born and it took him 6 months to find a new job. We had food storage and such a small savings I could not honestly tell you how we paid our bills, but we did and we didn't even have to ask the bishop or anyone else for help. But, nearly a year before that happened he was inspired very specifically by the Lord what to do to prepare for that event. Even though he didn't know that he was going to be laid off.

It is hard to describe what I am saying without too many details, but it was crazy amazing. One example that year including spending money we didn't plan on for an opportunity at work that just seemed like fun and a crazy way to spend $1000 we really didn't have to spend. How could that be inspiration, but we both felt it was so he went forward.

When he got laid off, the opportunity had not finished being put into practice and he got his $1000 back. Like and instant saving account we hadn't planned on. He didn't get any severance or anything so that was amazing for us.

Not to mention with so many kids you bet we have our fair share of broken bones, glasses, stitches, etc. (And paying for all the births!)

I will not downplay the amazing and hard work that has gone into my husband providing for us in the Lord's way. I heard so many times when we were living in our old place how "lucky" we were not to have debt. It was not luck. It was obedience and hard work.

Now, I'm not saying that people don't do everything right and still find themselves in situations worse than ours, but I am saying most of our "success" has come not by being smarter, or richer, or more blessed, but by obedience to revelation. That is just one example.

Michelle
captain of 100
Posts: 609
Joined: Fri May 12, 2017 2:33 pm

Re: What do you make of this message?

Postby Michelle » Mon Dec 04, 2017 5:56 pm

Rensai wrote:
Mon Dec 04, 2017 1:30 pm
Michelle wrote:
Mon Dec 04, 2017 11:00 am
MMbelieve wrote:
Sun Dec 03, 2017 10:01 pm
simpleton wrote:
Sun Dec 03, 2017 9:33 pm
The overall article just confirms all the more how up to our eyeballs in Babylon we are. Personally I am all about tradition, father working by the sweat of his brow bringing home the bacon and mother making the house a home and refuge, and both of them becoming one in purpose, yet each a distinct individual being, each complimenting the other in their unique God givin roles in life and neither one usurping or supplanting each other.
Holly crap wood is completely opposed to the traditional family, and their demonic influence is everywhere. A complete reversal of family values is upon us today. Large family's are a scorned thing of the past, considered to be trailer trash. Amazing how the adversary has turned America upside down.
The way Hollywood portrays women is disgusting and insulting to being a wife and a mother. The sooner it literally burns, the better off society will be. But I guess Hollywood is a reflection of our society, or, we are a reflection of it, or probably both.
The worst thing that ever happened to the family is the wife/woman going into the workforce. Being a good wife and a mother far surpasses anything that the corporate world has to offer. If she was offered the presidency of the United States it would be quite a step down from being a good mother.
Personally the woman I admire the most is the mother that devotes herself to the raising of her children to be children of God... There are it seems extenuating circumstances but they should be few and very far between. But as our society is, under existing conditions, that is not the case, as again, we are fully encompassed in Babylon....
The problem is more than women entering the workforce. There are many factors that make it hard for the traditional family to work and work well. Everything cost so much these days and far too many men cannot support a medium size family on their sole income, let alone a large family. I don't like it when the blame is placed on women when there are plenty of men who dont have the same drive as you mentioned in your post.
I know that it can be done. As another posted mentioned, it has more to do with lifestyle than whether it is possible or not.

President Uchtdorf last night in the Christmas Devotional said it is not a sin to be poor. He is right. We have found it to be a profound blessing. We have learned skills we would not have otherwise. We have remained self reliant and avoided debt. We have built up our food storage and eaten healthier than we would have otherwise. I am as weak as anybody, so HAVING to make hard choices has made me so much stronger than if I had been offered a financially easy life. I might have chosen the same as others and had the same problems as they have. My writings below are not to brag but to share my testimony (the same one shared by William Bradford in The History of Plimouth Plantation) that the happiest and most blessed times are often found in the ones most people consider poor.

Just some examples:

I do think it is funny how many people assume because we have 7 kids and wear clean but modest (modest meaning that it is not fancy or name brand, just lots of jeans and plain t-shirts) clothing that we are poor, or worse, that we are being supported by anyone but ourselves. (I always tell our kids we are the richest people in the neighborhood because we have no debt and something in savings, not to mention food storage!)

We had 5 kids when we lived in a two bedroom apartment and didn't take food stamps, or medicaid, or anything else that we didn't earn ourselves (not even public school.) We also didn't carry debt or buy things we didn't need or couldn't afford. We ate healthier than most, BECAUSE we couldn't afford to do otherwise. I have seen a lot of benefits from not having the financial resources of others. So much easier to tell the kid no we are not going to buy a tv or gaming system and the computer is a tool not a toy.

We even walked to the grocery store with our big bike stroller to get our groceries. It was awesome. My kids don't need multivitamins (the sun gives us our Vitamin D and our food the rest.) They are not obese and I have no fear of them becoming such. They know how to prepare real food from scratch (no boxes and they can run the wheat grinder for flour.)

All things we may not have done if we had the resources to do otherwise. (Meaning putting stuff above having kids.)

Now, this is again, not to brag, but the bearing of my testimony that we made a choice: kids over stuff and mom at home. It has been the right choice. I really believe that very few people (mostly single parents or those with a disabled spouse) need to have mom work. Yes, even in today's world.

As an update, we do now have 7 kids. We do own our own home (Something I seriously thought might never happen.) We actually have, not just one car to get my husband to work, but a car to drive to the grocery store too. We still wear a lot of jeans and t-shirts and eat homemade food from scratch. And for all their kid-like weaknesses (they are just kids) I have no fears about them in the future. I see the same frugality, resourcefulness and healthy habits they were raised into.

My only fear now is them finding spouses that are on the same page as they get older. But I've been praying for their spouses since they were babies, so I think that is going to work out. ;)
I was trying not to get into the details of my life, but your description of your family life sounds eerily familiar I just have to post. My family lived in a 2 bedroom apartment with 4 kids for years, we also used the baby stroller to cart groceries home, etc. We never took any welfare from the gov or church and like you said, also still built up food storage and met our family's needs, if barely at times; I remember literally digging through seat cushions, etc to scrape up enough change to buy some diapers or something to help get by til payday. It was tough and we learned a lot. It took us 10 years of marriage to get in a position to buy our first home, a very old, very cheap, fixer upper type home, but it was wonderful to have that house.

I met my wife at age 16. My wife and I got married at 18. She is 2 months older than me, which was enough to put her 1 year ahead of me in school. She had graduated and been working and had a couple thousand dollars saved to help us get our first car and get started. I on the other hand, had graduated high school almost exactly one month before getting married and had nothing. On top of that, our first child came one month after marriage. We made a lot of mistakes and had about as hard a start in married life as you can. I had to work full time for barely more than minimum wage while also attending college full time, racking up a mountain of student loan debt along the way. I think we lived on less than 20k per year for those first 5-6 years of marriage with no help or welfare other than bumming an extra 100 bucks off my parents from time to time. We had a really hard start, but we managed to always keep my wife at home with the kids. If we can do it, pretty much anyone can, barring disabilities, single parenthood, etc.

Anyway, Its nice to hear your story and hear that there is someone else out there doing similar things to what my wife and I did, choosing to be poor and keep mom at home. I also agree with your concern about finding good spouses for our children as well. Not many seem to be on that same page. I remember getting a lot of condescending remarks and odd looks over the years, but looking back, I'm glad we did it anyway. Being poor was a good experience. I'm glad that time has passed, it was hard, but I'm thankful for the lessons learned as well.

My wife and I were reminiscing about this just the other day. My current job pays pretty darn good and not too long ago we splurged and bought a car that is only a couple years old for 18 thousand. My wife has been feeling guilty that we spent so much even though she really enjoys having a nice, reliable car. We started doing the math and realized that before that car, ALL previous cars from the first 18 years of marriage combined, cost less than that one car, by quite a bit. :lol: Our first car cost 1500 bucks and we didn't spend much more on the rest. All combined, we owned 3 cars and an old pickup during those years that cost a little over 12k combined. We drove some real crappy cars for many years. The kind that everyone can't help but laugh at when they see. My wife handled that ok, but for me it was harder, I had to learn a lot more humility.

Living on one income is really hard, but the results are worth it imho. I know my kids have benefited a lot from having mom home with them. Even after they all started school I still think it made a big difference. We talked about having my wife work once they were all in school and decided against it and its been great for our family.

My wife has 6 married sisters, all with at least 3 kids each, and several with more. I don't have an exact count, but I know her family has about 25 grand kids. Among all those grand kids, my kids are the most popular, all the other kids like them the best and want to play with them the most. Every one of her sisters has commented that our kids are the best behaved, most helpful, nicest, etc. Grandma has commented several times to them that they should all try doing whatever we're doing to teach the kids. That's mostly my wife's work. I help of course, but I credit most of those results to having my wife stay home full time, focusing on taking care of the family and teaching the kids.

Honestly, I've always felt a little jealous of my wife. I work hard to take care of my family too, but my wife, who works directly with the kids way more, gets all the credit; one way or another mom gets most of their appreciation and affection. Those kids will remember her and what she has done for them forever. Hopefully they'll appreciate my contribution more when they're older, but I don't get why anyone would want to take some money making job over being with their kids. Stay at home moms can make a huge difference not only for their kids, but also grand kids, etc. Money and stuff is no substitute for that time lost. Most jobs really don't make much of a difference for anyone. They just pay the bills. I'd love to trade my wife places and stay home with the kids. I won't because I know shes better at it than I would be, but I don't understand why any woman would want to miss out on that.

Feminists who look down on stay at home moms and pretend their meaningless jobs are better than being a mom are just dead wrong. Don't listen to them. Find a way to stay home with the kids, its worth it.
Oh yes, I love the self serve check outs. No need to explain to a cashier my ziplock of coins to pay for a few groceries. lol

Also, old cars are the best! Our newest car right now is only 10 years old and was the first one we owned with automatic windows and locks! Love it!

User avatar
passionflower
captain of 100
Posts: 897
Joined: Wed Nov 30, 2011 4:50 pm

Re: What do you make of this message?

Postby passionflower » Mon Dec 04, 2017 6:50 pm

MMbelieve wrote:
Mon Dec 04, 2017 2:03 pm
Michelle wrote:
Mon Dec 04, 2017 11:00 am
MMbelieve wrote:
Sun Dec 03, 2017 10:01 pm
simpleton wrote:
Sun Dec 03, 2017 9:33 pm
The overall article just confirms all the more how up to our eyeballs in Babylon we are. Personally I am all about tradition, father working by the sweat of his brow bringing home the bacon and mother making the house a home and refuge, and both of them becoming one in purpose, yet each a distinct individual being, each complimenting the other in their unique God givin roles in life and neither one usurping or supplanting each other.
Holly crap wood is completely opposed to the traditional family, and their demonic influence is everywhere. A complete reversal of family values is upon us today. Large family's are a scorned thing of the past, considered to be trailer trash. Amazing how the adversary has turned America upside down.
The way Hollywood portrays women is disgusting and insulting to being a wife and a mother. The sooner it literally burns, the better off society will be. But I guess Hollywood is a reflection of our society, or, we are a reflection of it, or probably both.
The worst thing that ever happened to the family is the wife/woman going into the workforce. Being a good wife and a mother far surpasses anything that the corporate world has to offer. If she was offered the presidency of the United States it would be quite a step down from being a good mother.
Personally the woman I admire the most is the mother that devotes herself to the raising of her children to be children of God... There are it seems extenuating circumstances but they should be few and very far between. But as our society is, under existing conditions, that is not the case, as again, we are fully encompassed in Babylon....
The problem is more than women entering the workforce. There are many factors that make it hard for the traditional family to work and work well. Everything cost so much these days and far too many men cannot support a medium size family on their sole income, let alone a large family. I don't like it when the blame is placed on women when there are plenty of men who dont have the same drive as you mentioned in your post.
I know that it can be done. As another posted mentioned, it has more to do with lifestyle than whether it is possible or not.

President Uchtdorf last night in the Christmas Devotional said it is not a sin to be poor. He is right. We have found it to be a profound blessing. We have learned skills we would not have otherwise. We have remained self reliant and avoided debt. We have built up our food storage and eaten healthier than we would have otherwise. I am as weak as anybody, so HAVING to make hard choices has made me so much stronger than if I had been offered a financially easy life. I might have chosen the same as others and had the same problems as they have. My writings below are not to brag but to share my testimony (the same one shared by William Bradford in The History of Plimouth Plantation) that the happiest and most blessed times are often found in the ones most people consider poor.

Just some examples:

I do think it is funny how many people assume because we have 7 kids and wear clean but modest (modest meaning that it is not fancy or name brand, just lots of jeans and plain t-shirts) clothing that we are poor, or worse, that we are being supported by anyone but ourselves. (I always tell our kids we are the richest people in the neighborhood because we have no debt and something in savings, not to mention food storage!)

We had 5 kids when we lived in a two bedroom apartment and didn't take food stamps, or medicaid, or anything else that we didn't earn ourselves (not even public school.) We also didn't carry debt or buy things we didn't need or couldn't afford. We ate healthier than most, BECAUSE we couldn't afford to do otherwise. I have seen a lot of benefits from not having the financial resources of others. So much easier to tell the kid no we are not going to buy a tv or gaming system and the computer is a tool not a toy.

We even walked to the grocery store with our big bike stroller to get our groceries. It was awesome. My kids don't need multivitamins (the sun gives us our Vitamin D and our food the rest.) They are not obese and I have no fear of them becoming such. They know how to prepare real food from scratch (no boxes and they can run the wheat grinder for flour.)

All things we may not have done if we had the resources to do otherwise. (Meaning putting stuff above having kids.)

Now, this is again, not to brag, but the bearing of my testimony that we made a choice: kids over stuff and mom at home. It has been the right choice. I really believe that very few people (mostly single parents or those with a disabled spouse) need to have mom work. Yes, even in today's world.

As an update, we do now have 7 kids. We do own our own home (Something I seriously thought might never happen.) We actually have, not just one car to get my husband to work, but a car to drive to the grocery store too. We still wear a lot of jeans and t-shirts and eat homemade food from scratch. And for all their kid-like weaknesses (they are just kids) I have no fears about them in the future. I see the same frugality, resourcefulness and healthy habits they were raised into.

My only fear now is them finding spouses that are on the same page as they get older. But I've been praying for their spouses since they were babies, so I think that is going to work out. ;)
No argument that it can be done.
A woman should never marry expecting that she may not at some point need to be able to pull in some income though.

To me, expecting a man to never have any financial hiccups is akin to expecting a woman to never have a breakdown and need to get away from the kids. Yes, kids are 24/7 and a job is not (usually) but to me it's trying to express a point.

We expect perfection in the duties of a man...but can they expect perfection from us wives? No, that doesn't go over very well does it? We get hurt and offended when husbands don't understand or cater to a need or desire...ARE we sensitive to our husbands and their struggles and fears/concerns etc? Or do we expect then to shut up and do their job?

When I got married, the advice or counsel my father gave me was "don't leave the financial burden just to my husband". Was he expecting me to sacrifice my duties as as wife and a mother to lessen his burdens as the provider...NO.
He was giving me a piece of valuable insight into the struggle and burden he carries as a man to provide for a family and softening my heart to what burden my new husband will begin carrying.
When I got married, my father advised and counseled me to "stand back and let a man take care of you. Don't even buy yourself perfume or jewelry, let him to that".

That was good advice. I have received so many boxed red roses, expensive perfume, balloon bouquets, poetry, pretty dresses and wonderful dates along with promises of forever devotion, I don't think I can remember them all.

If some financial crises came up, like my DH lost his job, I would most likely lean towards doing whatever it took to build up his confidence in himself and his personal capacities to conquer the world again rather than assuming I should be prepared to pick up the slack. When the chips are down, a man of quality isn't looking for a soft spot, he is looking for someone who truly believes in him even when everything looks hopeless.

I would rather be the woman who holds the lamp to "light the way" into my husbands' own power over any situation, no matter how bleak or depressing, and who brings him encouragement in darkest of hours like water in the driest desert.

MMbelieve
captain of 100
Posts: 495
Joined: Sat May 27, 2017 7:45 am

Re: What do you make of this message?

Postby MMbelieve » Mon Dec 04, 2017 8:11 pm

Michelle wrote:
Mon Dec 04, 2017 5:52 pm
MMbelieve wrote:
Mon Dec 04, 2017 1:44 pm
Rensai wrote:
Mon Dec 04, 2017 10:09 am
MMbelieve wrote:
Sun Dec 03, 2017 10:01 pm


The problem is more than women entering the workforce. There are many factors that make it hard for the traditional family to work and work well. Everything cost so much these days and far too many men cannot support a medium size family on their sole income, let alone a large family. I don't like it when the blame is placed on women when there are plenty of men who dont have the same drive as you mentioned in your post.
There's some truth to that. It is harder to get by on one income today. Statistics show, real income, adjusted for real inflation, has steadily gone down since the mid 70's. As you said, stuff costs a lot more and wages are not very good. However, it can still be done. I know it can because I did it, as did many others I know.

I think if you're willing to sacrifice having nice stuff, God will help you make it work with one income. The problem I see, is materialism. I see so many LDS say they have to have 2 incomes, but then you see they are driving really nice cars, spending tons on expensive decorations for their houses, etc. They could easily cut that stuff and go to one income but the truth is, they value their stuff more than their children having a full time mom.

As for the article in the OP, I think its very clear that is SJW whining. How can anyone not see that? Another example of how much Babylon is affecting the church/members.
It's hard to make it on one income in this world unless your husband has a good paying job and 100% job security. It's not always always a matter of ditching the expensive nice things.

Expecting a man to carry the burden of finances all by himself and perfectly is not good thinking. People get sick, hurt, die, get laid off, get fired, go to school or training, change jobs to be HAPPIER etc. If a man gets laid off (through no fault of his own) shall he get in gov. assistance (and be scored by fellow judgemental LDS?) use his unemployment (a decent thing to do but may not cover bills), get any job like walmart cashier (this would require debt or wife getting a job) or go back to school to retrain (again, debt debt debt) or move his entire family for a job in his field (and hear the backlash from wife, kids and sell his home and aquire some debt in moving). So, when he geta back on his feet, who pays the debt? He does, with his paycheck that also is paying for the house, utilities, insurrance, doctors, dentists, food, cars, clothes, etc etc.

Point is, to expect a man to work 50 years minimum to provide perfectly while allowing for no hiccups is unreasonable. Do men have the same 50 year expectations on women?

Yes a man providing and a woman caring for a house full of kids is ideal but very few obtain and maintain ideal.

I don't like it when women are looked down upon as a whole for working outside the home. My mother has been looked down upon for working outside the home....AND SHE HAS NO KIDS AT HOME TO CARE FOR!! Don't get it

Who really cares how a family makes things work for their family? People need to relax and get out more to see that their ideals are not reality for most of the world.
Your assuming that the trials and surprises of life don't hit everyone. My husband was laid off 3 weeks after our 3rd baby was born and it took him 6 months to find a new job. We had food storage and such a small savings I could not honestly tell you how we paid our bills, but we did and we didn't even have to ask the bishop or anyone else for help. But, nearly a year before that happened he was inspired very specifically by the Lord what to do to prepare for that event. Even though he didn't know that he was going to be laid off.

It is hard to describe what I am saying without too many details, but it was crazy amazing. One example that year including spending money we didn't plan on for an opportunity at work that just seemed like fun and a crazy way to spend $1000 we really didn't have to spend. How could that be inspiration, but we both felt it was so he went forward.

When he got laid off, the opportunity had not finished being put into practice and he got his $1000 back. Like and instant saving account we hadn't planned on. He didn't get any severance or anything so that was amazing for us.

Not to mention with so many kids you bet we have our fair share of broken bones, glasses, stitches, etc. (And paying for all the births!)

I will not downplay the amazing and hard work that has gone into my husband providing for us in the Lord's way. I heard so many times when we were living in our old place how "lucky" we were not to have debt. It was not luck. It was obedience and hard work.

Now, I'm not saying that people don't do everything right and still find themselves in situations worse than ours, but I am saying most of our "success" has come not by being smarter, or richer, or more blessed, but by obedience to revelation. That is just one example.
never did I say or act like problems only hit a few.

MMbelieve
captain of 100
Posts: 495
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Re: What do you make of this message?

Postby MMbelieve » Mon Dec 04, 2017 9:19 pm

passionflower wrote:
Mon Dec 04, 2017 6:50 pm
MMbelieve wrote:
Mon Dec 04, 2017 2:03 pm
Michelle wrote:
Mon Dec 04, 2017 11:00 am
MMbelieve wrote:
Sun Dec 03, 2017 10:01 pm


The problem is more than women entering the workforce. There are many factors that make it hard for the traditional family to work and work well. Everything cost so much these days and far too many men cannot support a medium size family on their sole income, let alone a large family. I don't like it when the blame is placed on women when there are plenty of men who dont have the same drive as you mentioned in your post.
I know that it can be done. As another posted mentioned, it has more to do with lifestyle than whether it is possible or not.

President Uchtdorf last night in the Christmas Devotional said it is not a sin to be poor. He is right. We have found it to be a profound blessing. We have learned skills we would not have otherwise. We have remained self reliant and avoided debt. We have built up our food storage and eaten healthier than we would have otherwise. I am as weak as anybody, so HAVING to make hard choices has made me so much stronger than if I had been offered a financially easy life. I might have chosen the same as others and had the same problems as they have. My writings below are not to brag but to share my testimony (the same one shared by William Bradford in The History of Plimouth Plantation) that the happiest and most blessed times are often found in the ones most people consider poor.

Just some examples:

I do think it is funny how many people assume because we have 7 kids and wear clean but modest (modest meaning that it is not fancy or name brand, just lots of jeans and plain t-shirts) clothing that we are poor, or worse, that we are being supported by anyone but ourselves. (I always tell our kids we are the richest people in the neighborhood because we have no debt and something in savings, not to mention food storage!)

We had 5 kids when we lived in a two bedroom apartment and didn't take food stamps, or medicaid, or anything else that we didn't earn ourselves (not even public school.) We also didn't carry debt or buy things we didn't need or couldn't afford. We ate healthier than most, BECAUSE we couldn't afford to do otherwise. I have seen a lot of benefits from not having the financial resources of others. So much easier to tell the kid no we are not going to buy a tv or gaming system and the computer is a tool not a toy.

We even walked to the grocery store with our big bike stroller to get our groceries. It was awesome. My kids don't need multivitamins (the sun gives us our Vitamin D and our food the rest.) They are not obese and I have no fear of them becoming such. They know how to prepare real food from scratch (no boxes and they can run the wheat grinder for flour.)

All things we may not have done if we had the resources to do otherwise. (Meaning putting stuff above having kids.)

Now, this is again, not to brag, but the bearing of my testimony that we made a choice: kids over stuff and mom at home. It has been the right choice. I really believe that very few people (mostly single parents or those with a disabled spouse) need to have mom work. Yes, even in today's world.

As an update, we do now have 7 kids. We do own our own home (Something I seriously thought might never happen.) We actually have, not just one car to get my husband to work, but a car to drive to the grocery store too. We still wear a lot of jeans and t-shirts and eat homemade food from scratch. And for all their kid-like weaknesses (they are just kids) I have no fears about them in the future. I see the same frugality, resourcefulness and healthy habits they were raised into.

My only fear now is them finding spouses that are on the same page as they get older. But I've been praying for their spouses since they were babies, so I think that is going to work out. ;)
No argument that it can be done.
A woman should never marry expecting that she may not at some point need to be able to pull in some income though.

To me, expecting a man to never have any financial hiccups is akin to expecting a woman to never have a breakdown and need to get away from the kids. Yes, kids are 24/7 and a job is not (usually) but to me it's trying to express a point.

We expect perfection in the duties of a man...but can they expect perfection from us wives? No, that doesn't go over very well does it? We get hurt and offended when husbands don't understand or cater to a need or desire...ARE we sensitive to our husbands and their struggles and fears/concerns etc? Or do we expect then to shut up and do their job?

When I got married, the advice or counsel my father gave me was "don't leave the financial burden just to my husband". Was he expecting me to sacrifice my duties as as wife and a mother to lessen his burdens as the provider...NO.
He was giving me a piece of valuable insight into the struggle and burden he carries as a man to provide for a family and softening my heart to what burden my new husband will begin carrying.
When I got married, my father advised and counseled me to "stand back and let a man take care of you. Don't even buy yourself perfume or jewelry, let him to that".

That was good advice. I have received so many boxed red roses, expensive perfume, balloon bouquets, poetry, pretty dresses and wonderful dates along with promises of forever devotion, I don't think I can remember them all.

If some financial crises came up, like my DH lost his job, I would most likely lean towards doing whatever it took to build up his confidence in himself and his personal capacities to conquer the world again rather than assuming I should be prepared to pick up the slack. When the chips are down, a man of quality isn't looking for a soft spot, he is looking for someone who truly believes in him even when everything looks hopeless.

I would rather be the woman who holds the lamp to "light the way" into my husbands' own power over any situation, no matter how bleak or depressing, and who brings him encouragement in darkest of hours like water in the driest desert.
It has been said that a man losing his job is likened to the death of a family member. It is and can be defeating to him and he can get very depressed. When my husband got laid off (Our first child was only 6 months old) I tried to be as supportive as every good wife could be and even moved into his folks home for a little while (that was hard to do for me but I didn't oppose and went along happy to do it). I tried to support and be his "light" or confidence but he would have non of that. In fact, he was so depressed he forgot he had a wife and child and sucked deep into himself.

I don't believe that men need the same type of support or the same delivery method we as women see to give. Think of the 5 love languages...we all see love "support and care" in various ways.

It just so happens that my husband has felt more supported by his version of love than the love I would rather show and give him.

I don't want to take his job or responsibility from him at all, I want nothing more than to be a wife to him in all that entails, and he wants to be the provider and have me be able stay home.

But I have to say that when I was able to do a short online job last spring I could see that he felt really good about the extra income that lightened his burden for a short time. It made him feel supported and he was lighter and happier and it fueled him to do even better, like we were working together for a common good.

It was and good thing for us both as it made me feel usefull again in being able to help in our financial situation. Yes I am useful but hadn't had the feeling of bringing in an actual W2 since before I had children. The two are not the same and can not be viewed as the same. Children and wife is a position outside of self...taking care of self sometimes includes bringing in a check. I realize not all women feel the same as I do. I will add that I was able to do this job and others since then that have not taken away from me taking care of kids, and I homeschool.

My point is that not all men need or respond to the same things. I was able to fuel my husband more by finding a short online job than I was ever able to do at supporting him emotionally or mentally. He always had the "job" and my income was extra..to lighten financial burdens. It was interesting and suprising to me to see how my ways of trying to support him was not what he needed afterall but by showing a little support by being "willing" to take an opportunity to bring in some cash was more meaningful than what I was attempting for so long.

Does this make him less of a man or less anything, no I don't think so. It just so happened to be a silent mystery to his language of support. Does he ask or require me to work, never! But being a good wife I saw how to lift a burden he was feeling defeated on and show that I love him and that I am on his side.

Your father gave you advice and my father gave me opposite advice, our fathers seemed to have both been inspired in their counsel.


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