No More Personal Property?

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Michelle
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No More Personal Property?

Postby Michelle » Wed Nov 29, 2017 1:07 pm

I was thinking about the Internet of Things today (all things connected to the internet wirelessly, from your clothes to your car) and its impact on private property and self sufficiency.

I remember reading awhile back that the goal is to get rid of private car ownership and just have a sort of basic Uber type system. When you want to go somewhere, the self driving car shows up. This goes along with upgraded public transit. Here is just a generic article from the internet on the subject: http://www.businessinsider.com/why-no-o ... ars-2015-6

Here is an article where they describe how the internet of things can be used to upsell you and might even impact your laundry:
https://www.forbes.com/sites/kimberlywh ... 636b682132
"A great example of this is how companies can use IoT to cross-sell and up-sell through the products themselves. Consider your washing machine. These appliances don’t just wash your clothes anymore. There is a new business model emerging. Thanks to IoT, this appliance can replenish its own detergent or offer the user an extended warranty. Or how about the ability to sell loads of laundry as a service, in lieu of a one-time appliance purchase?"
The idea of self-sufficiency goes out the window if we can't own anything. If we have to buy, even each load of laundry, from the machine sitting in our basement. What's next? Paying for each glass of water from the dispenser on the refrigerator?

I just don't see how the benefits of these type of "services" outweigh the downsides. I also don't see how to opt out. As it is, I already feel compelled to use "services" I don't want because socially and logistically it is unacceptable and difficult to reject them. For example: I do not like texting. But so many people now refuse to answer their phones, prefering text, and my kids don't get messages about YM/YW if I don't receive texts.

There was a time a couple years ago when I hadn't "upgraded" to texting yet and people from church would get really upset when I didn't answer their texts or know about an event or request because I didn't have text. It didn't matter how many times I explained I didn't have text on my phone, I was constantly being chastised for not getting messages in a way convenient to them. I literally felt forced to get (and pay for) texting for their benefit.

I did have a smartphone for awhile, but it was taking too much time from real life (Again, people expecting that I should always available in an instant for them. In reality, I had diapers to change, chores to do, and priorities for connecting with my children that meant I put my phone away and only pulled it out when I wanted to use it as a tool.) I ended up downgrading to a feature phone (dumb phone) just to force the issue and protect my priority: my family.

Will that even be an option in the future? Downgrading? Some public utilities require email addresses. What if I just don't want the wireless internet connected to everything I own? Not in my home. Not on my phone. Certainly not in my bedroom on clothing and shoes and alarm clocks and blankets. (I am not exaggerating, look at what the FCC is doing to promote 5G and the Interent of Things.)

I have no intention of becoming Amish, because I believe The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is God's true church on the earth. But I have to admit, I wish for another option to disconnect more(even if my husband isn't ready yet. lol)

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mes5464
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Re: No More Personal Property?

Postby mes5464 » Wed Nov 29, 2017 2:51 pm

I don't think you will have to go Amish but I do find much of that lifestyle appealing. My wife is another that is very turned off by technology and longs for a simpler life. As a computer programmer, I deal with technology everyday and I find that I like the simpler life as well. I think the only way to get away from it would be to move someplace like this:

Green Bank, W.V., where the electrosensitive can escape the modern world.

You can turn your phone on in Green Bank, W.Va., but you won’t get a trace of a signal. If you hit scan on your car’s radio, it’ll cycle through the dial endlessly, never pausing on a station. This remote mountainous town is inside the U.S. National Radio Quiet Zone, a 13,000–square-mile area where most types of electromagnetic radiation on the radio spectrum (which includes radio and TV broadcasts, Wi-Fi networks, cell signals, Bluetooth, and the signals used by virtually every other wireless device) are banned to minimize disturbance around the National Radio Astronomy Observatory, home to the world’s largest steerable radio telescope.



The Town Where Wireless Signals Are Illegal | Mental Floss

Green Bank, West Virginia, is a tech-savvy teenager’s nightmare. In this tiny town in Pocahontas County—population 143, as of the last census—wireless signals are illegal. No cell phones. No WiFi. No Bluetooth. No electronic transmitters at all. Recently, a store even had to remove their automatic doors because they caused too much interference.

The remote town is smack in the center of the National Radio Quiet Zone, a 13,000 square mile stretch of land designated by the FCC to protect two government radio telescopes from man-made interference. The rules, though, are most strict in Green Bank’s neck of the woods. So strict, actually, that someone roves the streets listening for verboten wireless signals.

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Re: No More Personal Property?

Postby marc » Wed Nov 29, 2017 3:10 pm

When my current smart phone dies, I will downgrade to a dumbphone. I don't care to access the internet or apps on my phone anymore. I've become a minimalist and unplugging from the world for the most part and stripping myself of materialism has been very cathartic. I own very few things, most of which are books and some clothing, some DVDs and some odds and ends such as camping stuff. That's about it.
35...I know by this thing which thou hast said, that if the Gentiles have not charity...thou wilt prove them, and take away their talent, yea, even that which they have received, and give unto them who shall have more abundantly.

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Re: No More Personal Property?

Postby gardener4life » Wed Nov 29, 2017 4:47 pm

You are right to think that we are being compelled to live and buy certain things. That's how Satan is taking away people's self sufficiency right now. It's really amazing how crazy its getting and how easily you can compel people.

Also about cell phones...I think it's a waste. Cost of the phone at least 200 dollars. Number of people in the family, might be 4 or 5. The cell phone bill might be (conservatively) 40 dollars per person. And at least one person will break their phone every year, and more realistically have to replace their phone every 2 years now. If you do the math that's over 50 dollars per month per person x # of people in the family. Now after you total it in some places the cell phone bill per month of all family members together is about a third or a fourth of their mortgage payment.

NO wonder people are getting poor.

You can still send and receive messages through email or facebook. There's really no reason to have all this expensive stuff. We can learn to live simple. So I totally agree with you. One thing about living simple is you see how free you are when you aren't compelled to be in captivity for all those bills you are paying for tons of unnecessary stuff.

As you go through the book of Ether, every chapter almost it seems like you read near the end, and so and so lived in captivity all his days... that doesn't sound fun. (I think all the captivity verses were aimed at showing us what's happening in our day by pressure to have stuff we don't need and always be buying stuff.)

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gclayjr
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Re: No More Personal Property?

Postby gclayjr » Wed Nov 29, 2017 5:51 pm

MES 5464,
I don't think you will have to go Amish but I do find much of that lifestyle appealing
How about Intercourse, Pa. or Bird in Hand Pa. or maybe if you like the big city ... you could go all the way to Paradise.

Regards,

George Clay

Michelle
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Re: No More Personal Property?

Postby Michelle » Wed Nov 29, 2017 6:44 pm

gardener4life wrote:
Wed Nov 29, 2017 4:47 pm
You are right to think that we are being compelled to live and buy certain things. That's how Satan is taking away people's self sufficiency right now. It's really amazing how crazy its getting and how easily you can compel people.

Also about cell phones...I think it's a waste. Cost of the phone at least 200 dollars. Number of people in the family, might be 4 or 5. The cell phone bill might be (conservatively) 40 dollars per person. And at least one person will break their phone every year, and more realistically have to replace their phone every 2 years now. If you do the math that's over 50 dollars per month per person x # of people in the family. Now after you total it in some places the cell phone bill per month of all family members together is about a third or a fourth of their mortgage payment.

NO wonder people are getting poor.

You can still send and receive messages through email or facebook. There's really no reason to have all this expensive stuff. We can learn to live simple. So I totally agree with you. One thing about living simple is you see how free you are when you aren't compelled to be in captivity for all those bills you are paying for tons of unnecessary stuff.

As you go through the book of Ether, every chapter almost it seems like you read near the end, and so and so lived in captivity all his days... that doesn't sound fun. (I think all the captivity verses were aimed at showing us what's happening in our day by pressure to have stuff we don't need and always be buying stuff.)
We have Ting (ting.com) for our cell phones. 4 phones: 1 for hubby (smartphone and he uses tons of data), 1 for me dumb phone, 1 for house (dumb phone), 1 for my oldest son (dumb phone, can't even take and send pics) just so we have contact with him if he is gone from home. We pay less than $60 a month for all of us together because ting has all the phones share minutes, texts, and data and you only pay for what you use. If you have to have a phone this is the company to use. (Our phones use the Sprint network so we've never had trouble with reception even while traveling.)

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Re: No More Personal Property?

Postby harakim » Wed Nov 29, 2017 9:39 pm

Michelle wrote:
Wed Nov 29, 2017 1:07 pm
There was a time a couple years ago when I hadn't "upgraded" to texting yet and people from church would get really upset when I didn't answer their texts or know about an event or request because I didn't have text. It didn't matter how many times I explained I didn't have text on my phone, I was constantly being chastised for not getting messages in a way convenient to them. I literally felt forced to get (and pay for) texting for their benefit.
Screw them. I have the advantage of being a computer programmer. So when I tell people I can't fathom why people pay for smart phones, they are more shocked and also realize they can't argue technology against me. However, if I had some other profession, I would make the same arguments. Don't feel like you have to give in to appease people.
Michelle wrote:
Wed Nov 29, 2017 1:07 pm
I was thinking about the Internet of Things today (all things connected to the internet wirelessly, from your clothes to your car) and its impact on private property and self sufficiency.

I remember reading awhile back that the goal is to get rid of private car ownership and just have a sort of basic Uber type system.
...
The idea of self-sufficiency goes out the window if we can't own anything. If we have to buy, even each load of laundry, from the machine sitting in our basement. What's next? Paying for each glass of water from the dispenser on the refrigerator?

I just don't see how the benefits of these type of "services" outweigh the downsides. I also don't see how to opt out. As it is, I already feel compelled to use "services" I don't want because socially and logistically it is unacceptable and difficult to reject them. For example: I do not like texting. But so many people now refuse to answer their phones, prefering text, and my kids don't get messages about YM/YW if I don't receive texts.
What can you not opt out of? I see texting but what else? Also, I work as a programmer so I understand the subscription model really well. In my short career, it has gone from almost exclusively buying software to 100% subscription based. I do think one day they will turn a lot of this stuff off, or at least charge a lot for it. However, think about if you really need the service. I don't have Cable, Netflix, hulu, amazon streaming or even TV. I have a library with thousands of a books. I don't have Nintendo, XBox or Oculus. I have a family. I don't have a smart house, I have my own intelligence and ingenuity.
If I can't get by without some technology, I could make it myself. And that's actually exactly what I intend to do. Technology is going to change the world so drastically in the next ten years, it is going to be hard to comprehend now. I do think more and more that BeNotDeceived is right. This is the 7 years of plenty and we should all plan accordingly.

Michelle
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Re: No More Personal Property?

Postby Michelle » Wed Nov 29, 2017 10:53 pm

harakim wrote:
Wed Nov 29, 2017 9:39 pm
Michelle wrote:
Wed Nov 29, 2017 1:07 pm
There was a time a couple years ago when I hadn't "upgraded" to texting yet and people from church would get really upset when I didn't answer their texts or know about an event or request because I didn't have text. It didn't matter how many times I explained I didn't have text on my phone, I was constantly being chastised for not getting messages in a way convenient to them. I literally felt forced to get (and pay for) texting for their benefit.
Screw them. I have the advantage of being a computer programmer. So when I tell people I can't fathom why people pay for smart phones, they are more shocked and also realize they can't argue technology against me. However, if I had some other profession, I would make the same arguments. Don't feel like you have to give in to appease people.
Michelle wrote:
Wed Nov 29, 2017 1:07 pm
I was thinking about the Internet of Things today (all things connected to the internet wirelessly, from your clothes to your car) and its impact on private property and self sufficiency.

I remember reading awhile back that the goal is to get rid of private car ownership and just have a sort of basic Uber type system.
...
The idea of self-sufficiency goes out the window if we can't own anything. If we have to buy, even each load of laundry, from the machine sitting in our basement. What's next? Paying for each glass of water from the dispenser on the refrigerator?

I just don't see how the benefits of these type of "services" outweigh the downsides. I also don't see how to opt out. As it is, I already feel compelled to use "services" I don't want because socially and logistically it is unacceptable and difficult to reject them. For example: I do not like texting. But so many people now refuse to answer their phones, prefering text, and my kids don't get messages about YM/YW if I don't receive texts.
What can you not opt out of? I see texting but what else?
Honestly, I prefer face to face. (Even as a kid I didn't enjoy using the phone, I would rather just visit in person.)So texting yes, but even just feeling like I have to check my email daily because people are so accustomed to last minute plans now. I use to take tech breaks more often, like for a month, but now I end up on my email, even during a break, because utilities, other bills, and people send time sensitive emails.

As for more than that, just little things here and there. For example, we drive really old cars on purpose, and the few times I have driven a newer model I am less impressed with the cool gadgets and more concerned about not having a good option in the future for a low tech reliable car.

I definitely prefer mechanical over digital. It makes me feel like my agency is more intact.
Also, I work as a programmer so I understand the subscription model really well. In my short career, it has gone from almost exclusively buying software to 100% subscription based. I do think one day they will turn a lot of this stuff off, or at least charge a lot for it.


Yes. My husband is an engineer so I remember him teaching me about built in obsolescence. I feel like licensing/subscription is the new way to force customers to spend more money for a product or service and upgrades (whether they want them or not.) Unlike a mechanical version of built in obsolescence, that you may be able to work around if you are smart enough, subscription services will be able to just force your hand or cut you off. Hard to see how the consumer benefits from that, but easy to see how businesses will.
However, think about if you really need the service. I don't have Cable, Netflix, hulu, amazon streaming or even TV. I have a library with thousands of a books. I don't have Nintendo, XBox or Oculus. I have a family. I don't have a smart house, I have my own intelligence and ingenuity.
LOL. Ditto. We don't have any of those either. But we do have our own mini library. I like books. No one can come in and change the printed words. We homeschool and a couple of years ago I went online to print a copy of the Declaration of Independence. I found one on a .gov website, but as I read it I realized they had put in an ellipses and taken our "by their Creator" in the second paragraph. I was dumbfounded and disturbed. Don't even get me started on the differences in learning between a hard copy of a book and a digital copy, they are not even comparable in terms of how our brains learn and remember information.
If I can't get by without some technology, I could make it myself. And that's actually exactly what I intend to do. Technology is going to change the world so drastically in the next ten years, it is going to be hard to comprehend now. I do think more and more that BeNotDeceived is right. This is the 7 years of plenty and we should all plan accordingly.
I also agree that we are in 7 years of prosperity and that it ends right around 2024. Things are going to change rapidly and no one will be able to remain blind to it at that point. Choices will have to be made and those who are prepared to make and do things themselves will be much better off and have more choices than those who don't know how.

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Re: No More Personal Property?

Postby Fiannan » Wed Nov 29, 2017 11:43 pm

Well, you all might consider what the elite are preparing us for -- and this is not an alternative site either:

https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2016/11/ ... t-that-is/
"One of the penalties for refusing to participate in politics is that you end up being governed by your inferiors."
Plato

Michelle
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Re: No More Personal Property?

Postby Michelle » Thu Nov 30, 2017 9:15 am

Fiannan wrote:
Wed Nov 29, 2017 11:43 pm
Well, you all might consider what the elite are preparing us for -- and this is not an alternative site either:

https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2016/11/ ... t-that-is/
Well that goes entirely against human nature. I'm pretty sure that isn't what 2030 is going to look like.

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Re: No More Personal Property?

Postby harakim » Sun Dec 03, 2017 11:42 am

Fiannan wrote:
Wed Nov 29, 2017 11:43 pm
Well, you all might consider what the elite are preparing us for -- and this is not an alternative site either:

https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2016/11/ ... t-that-is/
I have very mixed feelings about that. On the one hand, that means you have no control over your life. And who will control it? I don't know if that's going to happen by 2030, but I do think it's going to happen. And then whoever controls the system that allows you to buy and sell will be the one that determines if you live or die, are free or in prison, etc.

On the other hand, I think that Zion would look similar to this. I have imagined a lot of these systems for a long time.

I obviously don't want this to happen on its current trajectory but this is going to make me think even more.

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Durzan
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Re: No More Personal Property?

Postby Durzan » Sun Dec 03, 2017 11:47 am

The thing is, we are currently living in a world where we have the illusion of freedom and not true freedom.


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