I'm not trying to cast stones. I was just taught, what it says in the official declaration of D&c by wilford woodruff, that even if a prophet leads you astray you will be blessed, but that god will not allow it....that's a false doctrine...I've just matured in my understanding of scripture over the last couple years....I just don't understand why people will not acknowlege that the church deliberately withheld and mislead members,...also, we reap what we sow, so we are getting pushback because this was poorly handled by the church, in my opinion, this will die when the church comes fully clean...just like a person who fully repents........what do you think Uchdorf was referring to when he said in general conference..."we've made mistakes". The pattern in d&c is that the church is far form perfect and they make mistakes...they are scolded by the Lord..(we just don't see revelations like that anymore)...but it's not that these men don't know it was an err.Tbone wrote: ↑November 27th, 2017, 9:47 pmI believe I referred to SLT as a garbage newspaper because their commentary on Mormon topics is garbage, not for lack of transparency. I don't believe I referred to SLT as hypocrites, but they probably are and as you pointed out, so am I. I referred to FearlessFixer himself as a hypocrite for not revealing his sources, strategies, motives, and tactics. Isn't that what they want from the church? If Mormon Leaks and other exmo groups believe they are on higher ground, then yes they should "take the lead, and set the example for transparency." Otherwise, they are nothing more than hypocrites.TrueIntent wrote: ↑November 27th, 2017, 8:50 pm So let me get what you are saying....you believe that a newspaper organization, should take the lead, and set the example for transparency for The Church of Jesus Christ of Latterday Saints....who claims to have Christ leading the Apostles..who Christ is, per himself, The way, the truth, and the light.....you're saying the Newspaper organization should set an example of transparency for a religious institution that claims Jesus Christ, himself, is leading its apostles. ??? And the newspaper is the hypocritical ones for not doing so.....NOT the religious institution....is that what you are saying?
As far as your comment on Christ leading the apostles, I know you are mocking. However, I don't think I have as fundamentalist of a viewpoint as you appear to have, so I am okay if apostles mess up sometimes. It's disappointing and it has consequences, but they are progressing too. I believe the overall pattern makes it clear that Christ does lead this church, even if you can point out some anecdotal events where He probably did a face palm and shook His head. But in my own personal experience, the church has done me immeasurable amounts of good.
I don't think we disagree here. However, I want a press that reports facts. If they are going to report controversy, then they better base it on facts and not become propaganda.TrueIntent wrote: ↑November 27th, 2017, 8:50 pm Newspapers are supposed to provide checks and balances.....they report controversy, to make the public aware. They are an integral part of the United States and its founding.......they rat out the rats, and sometimes they are the rats, but they provide opposition, just like opposing parties do in government...TO GIVE PEOPLE AN OPPORTUNITY TO CHOOSE.
This one kind of made me laugh. Am I biased? Definitely, but hopefully I am not ignorant. Am I a hypocrite? Probably, but I can't see for sure because of the beam in my eye.TrueIntent wrote: ↑November 27th, 2017, 8:50 pm No...I don't support hypocrisy....so you realize You're the Bias one....can you say...hypocrite? Pull the beam out of your own eye.
But it's always someone else who has the beam, right? We all need to be careful around you TrueIntent. You know, since you are the one here that is worthy to cast the first stone. I am not worthy, but I chucked one anyways.
I'm cool with the freedom of speech. I am glad we have it. However, the press's speech needs to based on facts or its libel and slander, and when it is just one sided, it is nothing more than propaganda like the SLT (and Deseret News on the other side). The church has certainly faced plenty of that over the years.TrueIntent wrote: ↑November 27th, 2017, 8:50 pm The First Amendment to the U.S. Constitution, says that "Congress shall make no law....abridging (limiting) the freedom of speech, or of the press.........why???? It's all about checks and balances....as soon as people get a little power they exercise unrighteous dominion no matter whether it's religion, politics, or news. Checks and balances.
If I'm being honest, it's the older apostles that come off arrogant and dishonest to me....yes, dishonest. Some of them speak out of both sides of their mouth. The pattern in scripture is that even the twelve, Judas himself, was influenced by Satan. I don't dispute that the church does a lot of good. But Tares go all the way to the top. There are wheat at the top too. ...but in my opinion I have recently come across some videos, just like the above, where certain apostles are diliberatly manipulative in their speech. It's about justification and rationalization...people with biases are just less aware of these patterns of speech, but those who are aware and are less bias, that's why this makes headlines.
If anyone is interested, it is useful (if you're willing to look at yourself), to study communications styles or Narcassissts, passive aggressives, and manipulative personalities. We all see things through our own lenses, however, there are some communication styles that attach motive and control....this people are dishonest about why the want to influence you...you will uncover hypocrisiys over time, but they will never acknowledge it, because it means loss of power or control....so when I find people willing to own up....I appreciate it,...it shows an imperfect person, whose doing their best and knows they are flawed....they will take specific ownership,.....in the interview above, where they turn the question back on the victim...you make mistakes too..blah blah....that's highly manipulative. Highly. There are patterns (these patterns are found in scripture....). Intention matters, motive matters, when a person is communicating. People make mistakes all the time...but the Intention of the individual is usually uncovered over repeated interactions.