Curious Workmanship...

[BeNotDeceived]

There is no knowledge nowadays that could make a Liahona. It was, and still is, out of place and time.

My SST Apple Watch will hopefully arrive today,

and on the advice of ,

and in combination with

I shall continue my push to move my VO2max to another place and time.



Must go see the doc though, as me cholesterol is what's currently off the chart.

[Teancum]

I find it very interesting that the liahona had writing on it that was easy to read and was changed from time to time.

1Nephi 16

28 And it came to pass that I, Nephi, beheld the pointers which were in the ball, that they did work according to the afaith and diligence and heed which we did give unto them.

29 And there was also written upon them a new writing, which was plain to be read, which did give us aunderstanding concerning the ways of the Lord; and it was written and changed from time to time, according to the faith and diligence which we gave unto it. And thus we see that by bsmall means the Lord can bring about great things.

Alma 37

39 And behold, there cannot any man work after the manner of so curious a workmanship. And behold, it was prepared to show unto our fathers the course which they should travel in the wilderness.

40 And it did work for them according to their afaith in God; therefore, if they had faith to believe that God could cause that those spindles should point the way they should go, behold, it was done; therefore they had this miracle, and also many other miracles wrought by the power of God, day by day.

41 Nevertheless, because those miracles were worked by asmall means it did show unto them marvelous works. They were bslothful, and forgot to exercise their faith and diligence and then those marvelous works ceased, and they did not progress in their journey;

42 Therefore, they tarried in the wilderness, or did anot travel a direct course, and were afflicted with hunger and thirst, because of their transgressions.

This, to me, is reminiscent of today's digital computer driven wristwatch. I'm not saying that is what the liahona was, but the description seems similar to technology that we have today. Also, devices like these today are not "made by man" in the sense that no man could make such intricate circuitry (our hands are too big) - i.e. those devices are machines made by other machines. Here, though, the scriptures tell us that The Lord prepared it. If he could cause the rocks to be turned into T.V. sets or other miracles, then there is no end to the possibilities that The Lord could do.

Reminiscent, but much more.

How well it worked was based on/ "powered by" faith. It contained directions from God--like a live stream, or updated every time they looked. It was a super-GPS, showing which route was best, taking into consideration food, water, weather, enemies, emergency supplies, etc.

I imagine the closest we can get to that is a great GPS + dowsing, and even that can't come close to it.

Yes I agree, the closest thing I can think of to ascertain the faith and diligence of a person would be an ai script orders of magnitude smarter and with a broader database than the old "eliza" personal shrink (old computer program).

A couple of other thoughts come to mind about whether man is in actuality a part of God's hand or the other way around. We know that Nephi was inspired, and given revelations on how to build the ship from God. We also know that the brother of Jared also likewise had The Hand of the Lord touching his stones. Moses struck the rock and water gushed out. Where should the line be drawn about when is it a doing of man or of God? The scriptures say that God brought them forth, and did the other miracles.

I would venture an answer that it is always attributable to God no matter if partly done by His servant or servants, or mostly done by average joe bloes. I think that this is where lucifer fell in wanting the glory attributed to himself, when in reality it was God the Father's plan all along to exalt and improve His children. Thus, any good improvement, success, or achievement that we "think" we do, in reality is God's work; and the glory for that will eventually be returned to Him as the true author. For really, with-out God, nothing could or would be done.

Very curious!

[Durzan]

Yeah, God is always pulling the strings of miracles... either directly or indirectly, just about anything that happens can be attributed to Him if you follow the lines back far enough.

[brlenox]

This phrase shows up several times in the Book of Mormon. Nephi describes his manner of building the ship as "Curious Workmanship". I have long been subconsciously pestered by that phrase. The Liahona was constructed with "Curious Workmanship". What does that mean? In Ether 10:27, they used curious workmanship as well as in Alma 37:39.

On a perhaps tangent path, I have long wondered how the ancient inhabitants of the Americas work stones to fit together like they did. The would mate two stones together, with the two sides of the stones that would join, being rough and uneven, and yet the two stones, sometimes being very large, would fit together so tightly that there was not space at all, even so tight that water would not leak out between the two stones. How did they carve, or shape the two stones, appearing very rough on the mating surface, and still they fit snuggly together? I wonder if that is an example of curious workmanship?

Nephi "did not work the timbers after the manner which was learned by men, neither did I build the ship after the manner of men; but I did build it after the manner which the Lord had shown unto me; wherefore, it was not after the manner of men."

Just prior to this statement in 1 Ne 17:50 Nephi says: "If God had commanded me to do all things I could do them. If he should command me that I should say unto this water, be thou earth, it should be earth; and if I should say it, it would be done.

51 And now, if the Lord has such great power, and has wrought so many miracles among the children of men, how is it that he cannot instruct me, that I should build a ship?"

Is this the way the Lord taught Nephi to build the ship? Did Nephi command the materials to take the shape that he wanted them to take, and by faith shaped the materials in a manner of "Curious Workmanship"?

It brought to mind the account in Visions of Glory where the temple in Independence is being built and there are people shaping the stone with their hands, like we might mold soft clay. Is that "Curious Workmanship"?

Any thoughts?

I have several sources that I use to uncover meanings for Biblical word usage. The Jewish/ Aramaic targums are at the top of the list. Josephus, an early addition of a Smith's Bible dictionary from the late 1800's which is so much more developed than modern edited editions. My Tanach. A Samaritan Edition, recently translated, of the Torah which is the oldest Hebrew rendering available which is written in Paleo Hebrew by a small group of Samaritans that have existed in the same location from since the Babylonian exile. A translation of the Masoratic text, which is the foundation of most Jewish editions of the Bible. I can count on the fact that if there is an unusual or interesting intent of word usage the Targums will speak to it, The Samaritan text will show valid alternative translations, Josephus will frequently elaborate in unexpected ways.

The word curious in the Old Testament usage of the King James Bible was not found in any of these sources to be anything other than to define exquisite, highest artistic skill, or other adjective which simply conveyed a sense of the most particular skill and highest quality materials. In fact if anything it conveyed a dualistic aspect of not only the finest in artistry but also the highest grade and quality of materials as a joint idea conveying excellence uncompromised in any shape or form. If there was a hint of anything mystical, or otherworldly, I would have suspected that one of these sources would of at least pointed to some degree of that mysticism.

[Teancum]

This phrase shows up several times in the Book of Mormon. Nephi describes his manner of building the ship as "Curious Workmanship". I have long been subconsciously pestered by that phrase. The Liahona was constructed with "Curious Workmanship". What does that mean? In Ether 10:27, they used curious workmanship as well as in Alma 37:39.

On a perhaps tangent path, I have long wondered how the ancient inhabitants of the Americas work stones to fit together like they did. The would mate two stones together, with the two sides of the stones that would join, being rough and uneven, and yet the two stones, sometimes being very large, would fit together so tightly that there was not space at all, even so tight that water would not leak out between the two stones. How did they carve, or shape the two stones, appearing very rough on the mating surface, and still they fit snuggly together? I wonder if that is an example of curious workmanship?

Nephi "did not work the timbers after the manner which was learned by men, neither did I build the ship after the manner of men; but I did build it after the manner which the Lord had shown unto me; wherefore, it was not after the manner of men."

Just prior to this statement in 1 Ne 17:50 Nephi says: "If God had commanded me to do all things I could do them. If he should command me that I should say unto this water, be thou earth, it should be earth; and if I should say it, it would be done.

51 And now, if the Lord has such great power, and has wrought so many miracles among the children of men, how is it that he cannot instruct me, that I should build a ship?"

Is this the way the Lord taught Nephi to build the ship? Did Nephi command the materials to take the shape that he wanted them to take, and by faith shaped the materials in a manner of "Curious Workmanship"?

It brought to mind the account in Visions of Glory where the temple in Independence is being built and there are people shaping the stone with their hands, like we might mold soft clay. Is that "Curious Workmanship"?

Any thoughts?

Rereading the OP I was struck by the thought of turning something normally useless and not considered appropriate building materials into something of a true wonder. Specifically with shipbuilding, the last thing you would want to build your ship out of would be water. See this for a thought:

https://99percentinvisible.org/article/ ... r-project/

Perfecting Pykrete

The solution came in the form of something that came to be known as pykrete: a mixture of wood pulp and frozen water. Wood provided reinforcement, making up for deficiencies in pure ice much like steel rebar helps concrete function in structural contexts. Pykrete would float well and melt more slowly. It could be machined like wood and cast like metal. Still, to keep it cold, a ship would need to be insulated and require a system of on-board refrigeration to keep it from melting.

Inventor Geoffrey Pyke saw a giant floating ice ship as a natural option in the face of material limitations. Steel and aluminum were in short supply, but water was everywhere. ... Pyke envisioned a giant aircraft-carrying vessel over a mile long with solid hull made of ice.Jan 23, 2017

[Rand]

This phrase shows up several times in the Book of Mormon. Nephi describes his manner of building the ship as "Curious Workmanship". I have long been subconsciously pestered by that phrase. The Liahona was constructed with "Curious Workmanship". What does that mean? In Ether 10:27, they used curious workmanship as well as in Alma 37:39.

On a perhaps tangent path, I have long wondered how the ancient inhabitants of the Americas work stones to fit together like they did. The would mate two stones together, with the two sides of the stones that would join, being rough and uneven, and yet the two stones, sometimes being very large, would fit together so tightly that there was not space at all, even so tight that water would not leak out between the two stones. How did they carve, or shape the two stones, appearing very rough on the mating surface, and still they fit snuggly together? I wonder if that is an example of curious workmanship?

Nephi "did not work the timbers after the manner which was learned by men, neither did I build the ship after the manner of men; but I did build it after the manner which the Lord had shown unto me; wherefore, it was not after the manner of men."

Just prior to this statement in 1 Ne 17:50 Nephi says: "If God had commanded me to do all things I could do them. If he should command me that I should say unto this water, be thou earth, it should be earth; and if I should say it, it would be done.

51 And now, if the Lord has such great power, and has wrought so many miracles among the children of men, how is it that he cannot instruct me, that I should build a ship?"

Is this the way the Lord taught Nephi to build the ship? Did Nephi command the materials to take the shape that he wanted them to take, and by faith shaped the materials in a manner of "Curious Workmanship"?

It brought to mind the account in Visions of Glory where the temple in Independence is being built and there are people shaping the stone with their hands, like we might mold soft clay. Is that "Curious Workmanship"?

Any thoughts?

I have several sources that I use to uncover meanings for Biblical word usage. The Jewish/ Aramaic targums are at the top of the list. Josephus, an early addition of a Smith's Bible dictionary from the late 1800's which is so much more developed than modern edited editions. My Tanach. A Samaritan Edition, recently translated, of the Torah which is the oldest Hebrew rendering available which is written in Paleo Hebrew by a small group of Samaritans that have existed in the same location from since the Babylonian exile. A translation of the Masoratic text, which is the foundation of most Jewish editions of the Bible. I can count on the fact that if there is an unusual or interesting intent of word usage the Targums will speak to it, The Samaritan text will show valid alternative translations, Josephus will frequently elaborate in unexpected ways.

The word curious in the Old Testament usage of the King James Bible was not found in any of these sources to be anything other than to define exquisite, highest artistic skill, or other adjective which simply conveyed a sense of the most particular skill and highest quality materials. In fact if anything it conveyed a dualistic aspect of not only the finest in artistry but also the highest grade and quality of materials as a joint idea conveying excellence uncompromised in any shape or form. If there was a hint of anything mystical, or otherworldly, I would have suspected that one of these sources would of at least pointed to some degree of that mysticism.

You are absolutely no fun at all... but I love the research and sources. Could you share with me the names of the books? I love to look into languages, although I am a neophyte at the process.
It still seems a curious word to use, to define a curious process.

[brlenox]

These are the ones I used for this research:

1.) Artscroll Tanach
The Artscroll Tanach - http://artscroll ... s/STF.html

2.) The Israelite Samaritan Version of the Torah: First English Translation Compared with the Masoretic Version
https://www.amazon.com/Israelite-Samari ... itan+bible

3.) Josephus The Complete Works

4.) The Targum pseudo Jonathan - There are several online PDF's that you can download
5.) Targum Onkelos

6.) Smiths Bible Dictionary - Usually Ebay, sometimes Amazon. The older 1902 and earlier versions are much better than current editions in my opinion.