Australia seals it's fate, SSM vote 61% yes

[Spaced_Out]

61% yes vote for same sex marriage across the county with over 90% of eligible voters taking part. The state that I am in had the lowest percentage no vote but still a majority yes... The BoM teaches when the majority of the people choose evil the foundation for destruction has been laid....
Not much more to be said other than watching people celebrate the end of the world - they just don't know it....

How Australia voted on same-sex marriage
http://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/gay-ma ... 1714e202e7

[Dave62]

The worst possible result in the worst possible way...

Mosiah 29: 26 Now it is not common that the voice of the people desireth anything contrary to that which is right; but it is common for the lesser part of the people to desire that which is not right; therefore this shall ye observe and make it your law—to do your business by the voice of the people.
27 And if the time comes that the voice of the people doth choose iniquity, then is the time that the judgments of God will come upon you; yea, then is the time he will visit you with great destruction even as he has hitherto visited this land.
Please pray for my poor (unlucky) country for the upcoming fire season.

[Elizabeth]

"Former PM and No vote advocate Tony Abbott has released a statement following the vote for same-sex marriage in Australia.
Mr Abbott told followers he congratulated the Yes campaign, and said the Parliament should respect the vote.
“The people have spoken out and, of course, the Parliament should respect the result,” he said.
“I also thank the 4.7 million Australians who supported marriage between a man and a woman.”
Mr Abbott noted that the PM and Opposition Leader had both “pledged their support for freedom of religion”
Pansy Lai, a doctor who appeared in an ad for the No campaign, was also at the No event and said she hoped people’s parental rights would be protected.
“Now that the result of the marriage survey has come out, people will see the consequences that we have warned about (that will hopefully) not come about in a way detrimental to people that have a personal view about traditional marriage,” she told news.com.au.
Dr Lai said she accepted the result but it was important that people’s livelihoods were not taken away if they believed in traditional marriage.
The paediatrician from Sydney’s North Shore has paid a price for making her views public, with some calling for her to be deregistered.
“I think it’s really sad that some people feel that because I expressed publicly a view towards traditional marriage, they feel I need to be deregistered as a doctor.
“That belief has nothing to do with the way I care about my patients.
“I think it’s really important that there would be something to protect the beliefs of people, that their livelihoods are not taken away.”
When asked whether the personal price was worth it, she said: “I think it’s really important to see that there are people who want to take away parental rights — radical gender theory and sexuality teaching in schools — and I think these messages need to be heard.”
NSW had the highest percentage of No voters of all states and territories, with 42 per cent of voters opposing changes to marriage laws.
A breakdown of the votes by federal electorates showed constituents from 12 seats in NSW returned a majority No vote. Nine of the state’s 12 No electorates were represented by Labor MPs.
In Queensland, the majority of voters in three electorates voted No. In Victoria there were two No electorates, while in South Australia, Tasmania, Western Australia, ACT and Northern Territory, all seats returned a majority Yes vote.
The federal electoral division of Blaxland recorded the highest No vote in Australia with 73.9 per cent opposed to gay marriage.
The neighbouring electorate of Watson was the only other division with a ‘no’ response of almost 70 per cent.
Of the eligible Australians who voted, 61.6 per cent (7,817,247) voted Yes to changing the law to allow same-sex couples to marry.
All states and territories returned a majority Yes result. In NSW, 58 per cent voted Yes. In Queensland, 61 per cent voted Yes. In South Australia it was 62 per cent, Victoria returned a 65 per cent Yes vote, Western Australia returned a 64 per cent Yes vote and Tasmania returned a 64 per cent Yes vote.
In the ACT, 74 per cent voted Yes, and in the Northern Territory 61 per cent voted Yes."

.

[Robin Hood]

The western nations are dropping like flies. God will thrash us and we'll deserve it.
Soon, the only nations that will uphold God's law in respect to homosexual relations will be the Muslim countries.

[gardener4life]

This is sad to hear about. So is it also already passed in the UK area or not yet? My understanding is that this is about Australia only, not NZ, or GB?

[gkearney]

It's not as if anyone should have not seen this coming or anything. This impacts Australia only, Same sex marriage is already legal in New Zealand by act of Parliament. Same Sex marriage is legal in England, Wales, Scotland but not legal in Northern Ireland. Same sex marriage is also legal in the British Overseas Territories (by virtue of it being legal in England) and is also legal in all of the Crown Dependencies (Countries governed directly by HM the Queen which are not part of the United Kingdom such as the Isle of Man, Jersey, etc.)

There is in all of this predicting of impending doom a problem however. Any parent can tell you that when it comes to the discipline of children the punishment is only effective if it is associated in the child's mind with the action at hand. You do not, as an example, wait 10 years to punish a 15 year old for acts committed when they were five.

Another issue is any punishment must be able to be directly associated with the action, in this case same sex marriage. Every year in Australia there are devastating fires. Property is destroyed, lives are lost, so if this summer when there is such a fire you really can't blame such on God's wrath over same sex marriage? I mean what about the fires last year or the year before that? Are we to assume that all fires from now on are indications of God's displeasure over this vote and that had the vote been no those fires would not happen?

This leads to the next problem, what is going to qualify as directly related to the actions of the Australian public in this matter? Without someone saying action A is the result of said vote how are any of us supposed to learn from this? Now I suppose something like a plague which strikes down only those who voted yes would do the trick but I would not hold my breath for such an event. A devastating earthquake striking a major city might also qualify given that Australia is a very geologically stable landmass and earthquake are rare.

In ages past it was easy to have people make an association between their acts and natural events but of course they did not understand the natural forces at work. This is less the case now when we are able to a fair degree of accuracy predict such natural calamities. I'm not meteorologist but I can safely predict that this summer there will be a serious heatwave somewhere in Australia which will result in a destructive fire.

For any such punishment to be effective it would seem to me it would need to be:

1. immediate, or close to it. The longer the period between action and result the less effective it will be. If you wait centuries for the punishment the associations will be lost. All the people who voted yes will have died.

2. It must be clear that the punishment is related to the act. We can't have some vague threat of a punishment in which we are never told of the association to a particular event.

3. It must be nationwide, how are we to associate a fire in some country town or a typhoon in Queensland, events that happen as a regular part of the natural world with the same sex marriage vote? If Australia is to suffer the wrath of God it seem to me it would need to be the whole country and not just the town of Toojay, Western Australia which seem to burn down about one every five years anyway.

4. And this is most important of all the punishment must happen. This is rather obvious making a prediction of the punishment of God that then never happens, or if it does it is of such a nature that most people can never see it as such is really not much good at all. No one ever learns from such. We have had all manner of predictions about the fate that awaits us but it it never happens then what are people going to think? They will think that these are empty words, threats made with no intention of being carried out.

In other words we need to be able to see the results of the act. There can be no doubt that the bad things happening are the results of the act. IF western civilization just keeps on going as it has been will no direct relationship between acts and results then the words of scripture are going to ring rather hollow. Even believer need to be able to see the results at some point.

[Daniel2]

This is sad to hear about. So is it also already passed in the UK area or not yet? My understanding is that this is about Australia only, not NZ, or GB?

Australia was behind the game, compared to most other English-speaking nations.

From Wikipedia:

Same-sex marriage became legal in New Zealand on 19 August 2013. A bill for legalisation was passed by the New Zealand House of Representatives on 17 April 2013 by 77 votes to 44 and received royal assent on 19 April 2013. It entered into force four months after assent, to allow time for the Department of Internal Affairs to make the necessary changes for marriage licensing and related documentation. New Zealand became the first country in Oceania, the fourth in the Southern Hemisphere, and the fifteenth overall to allow same-sex couples to marry.

Legislation to allow same-sex marriage in England and Wales was passed by the Parliament of the United Kingdom in July 2013 and came into force on 13 March 2014, and the first same-sex marriages took place on 29 March 2014.[1]

Legislation to allow same-sex marriage in Scotland was passed by the Scottish Parliament in February 2014 and took effect on 16 December 2014.[2] The first same-sex marriage ceremonies occurred on 16 December 2014 for same-sex couples previously in civil partnerships.[3] The first same-sex marriage ceremonies for couples not in a civil partnership occurred on 31 December 2014.[4]

Same-sex marriage has been legal in Ireland since 16 November 2015.[1] A referendum on 22 May 2015 amended the Constitution of Ireland to provide that marriage is recognised irrespective of the sex of the partners.[2] The measure was signed into law by the President of Ireland as the Thirty-fourth Amendment of the Constitution of Ireland on 29 August 2015.[3] The Marriage Act 2015, passed by the Oireachtas on 22 October 2015 and signed into law by the Presidential Commission on 29 October 2015, gave legislative effect to the amendment.[4][5][6] Marriages of same-sex couples in Ireland began being recognised from 16 November 2015[7] and the first marriage ceremonies of same-sex couples in Ireland occurred on 17 November 2015.[8]

[Daniel2]

The worst possible result in the worst possible way...
27 And if the time comes that the voice of the people doth choose iniquity, then is the time that the judgments of God will come upon you; yea, then is the time he will visit you with great destruction even as he has hitherto visited this land.
Please pray for my poor (unlucky) country for the upcoming fire season.

61% yes vote for same sex marriage across the county with over 90% of eligible voters taking part. The state that I am in had the lowest percentage no vote but still a majority yes... The BoM teaches when the majority of the people choose evil the foundation for destruction has been laid....
Not much more to be said other than watching people celebrate the end of the world - they just don't know it....

What is some people's perspective of "dropping like flies" is other people's view of "rising like a phoenix from the ashes."

I understand that conservative members of the LDS Church will continue to cite Mosiah and invoke connotations of "the voice of the people choosing iniquity" when the majority support equal civil marriage rites for both opposite-sex and same-sex couples.

However, history may very well show that it's actually said conservatives that have the skewed perspective about marriage when they forbid gay couples from marrying. After all,

Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils; Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron; forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth. For every creature of God is good, and nothing to be refused, if it be received with thanksgiving: For it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer.

I am grateful for the spiritual home I have found in the Unitarian Church which, in the spirit of prayer and the word of God, recognizes and upholds the inherent sacredness, dignity, and divine worthiness of marriage between both opposite- and same-sex couples.

[Elizabeth]

Daniel2 there is no point you being in any Church while actively defying God by participating in the sexual deviancy of homosexuality.

[Fiannan]

I read a very influential humanist back in university who basically predicted (back in the 1980s) everything we are seeing today. His timetable is spot-on. He said that once you divorced sex from reproduction then the natural evolution will be to see sex in new terms. He predicted that sometime early in the 21st Century people will date, mate and form relationships based on feelings, not gender. Mormons are just a little behind the times but will catch up. Look at what people quote from the Holy Handbook in regards to birth control and family size.

[Lizzy60]

There is nothing inherently sacred, dignified or divinely worthy about same-sex marriage. It is Satan's version of God's holy sacrament of marriage.
It is also proof that ancient prophets saw our day when they said that good will be called evil, and that evil will be called good.

[Z2100]

I read a very influential humanist back in university who basically predicted (back in the 1980s) everything we are seeing today. His timetable is spot-on. He said that once you divorced sex from reproduction then the natural evolution will be to see sex in new terms. He predicted that sometime early in the 21st Century people will date, mate and form relationships based on feelings, not gender. Mormons are just a little behind the times but will catch up. Look at what people quote from the Holy Handbook in regards to birth control and family size.

Well, if the church does accept homosexuals in the future sometime this century, then I'm going to do whatever i want (that includes leaving the church).

[LdsMarco]

[Daniel2]

Daniel2 there is no point you being in any Church while actively defying God by participating in the sexual deviancy of homosexuality.

Telling someone there's "no point" in participating in any religious Faith is contrary to LDS teachings, which have long held that good can be found in all churches. Even the LDS view of the afterlife suggests degrees of glory--it's not "all or nothing."

I testify to you that the love my husband and I share is far more than mere "deviancy of homosexuality." I'm not only at peace with my choices in life--I find joy and meaning in them, regardless of whether or not you are/do. I wish and hope for you that your life is as fulfilling as mine is, even if your choices are different, and wish you all the best.

[Sunain]

I understand that conservative members of the LDS Church will continue to cite Mosiah and invoke connotations of "the voice of the people choosing iniquity" when the majority support equal civil marriage rites for both opposite-sex and same-sex couples.

However, history may very well show that it's actually said conservatives that have the skewed perspective about marriage when they forbid gay couples from marrying.

Homosexuality is a Sin. The church will never backtrack on this 'skewed perspective' ever because then the church would be teaching contrary to the gospel of Jesus Christ which is about families. Families naturally cannot have children without a male husband and female wife.

Just because something is popular doesn't mean it is good or right!

We further declare that God has commanded that the sacred powers of procreation are to be employed only between man and woman, lawfully wedded as husband and wife.
https://www.lds.org/topics/family-procl ... g&old=true

Alma 41:10 Behold, I say unto you, wickedness never was happiness.
https://www.lds.org/scriptures/bofm/alma/41.14

Mosiah 3:19 For the natural man is an enemy to God, and has been from the fall of Adam, and will be, forever and ever, unless he yields to the enticings of the Holy Spirit, and putteth off the natural man and becometh a saint through the atonement of Christ the Lord, and becometh as a child, submissive, meek, humble, patient, full of love, willing to submit to all things which the Lord seeth fit to inflict upon him, even as a child doth submit to his father.
https://www.lds.org/scriptures/bofm/mos ... 9?lang=eng

[Daniel2]

There is nothing inherently sacred, dignified or divinely worthy about same-sex marriage. It is Satan's version of God's holy sacrament of marriage.
It is also proof that ancient prophets saw our day when they said that good will be called evil, and that evil will be called good.

I understand that is your belief, but it's obviously not one that I share.

I believe that the diversity of life and across our human family is beautiful in many variations. Love is inherently worthy and worthwhile, because it binds families together and creates bonds that ask us to be the best versions of ourselves. It asks us to become one with another; to put their needs above our own, it ennobles and enriches our lives and gives us meaning, companionship, and comfort. And I believe that not all marriages are the same (a concept that Mormonism obviously agrees with; Mormons are one of the few religions that support the notion that there will be at LEAST two configurations of marriage in the eternities; those that are monogamous, and those that are polygamous). And I believe that there are yet many great and important things that have yet to be revealed, including further light and knowledge about God's place for His gay, lesbian, and transgender sons and daughters and their place in His kingdom. After all, the Celestial Kingdom is comprised of three levels, only the top of which is reserved for those couples with eternal increase. The diversity of God's creation surely can allow a purpose and place for committed same-sex couples in other corners of His Kingdom.

[Daniel2]

Well, if the church does accept homosexuals in the future sometime this century, then I'm going to do whatever i want (that includes leaving the church).

That's what a lot of people said about interracial marriage (remember, Brigham Young said that the penalty for such is and would always be 'death on the spot')... Chalk it up to God sifting the wheat from the tares from time to time.

[Daniel2]

Homosexuality is a Sin. The church will never backtrack on this 'skewed perspective' ever because then the church would be teaching contrary to the gospel of Jesus Christ which is about families. Families naturally cannot have children without a male husband and female wife.

Just because something is popular doesn't mean it is good or right!

We further declare that God has commanded that the sacred powers of procreation are to be employed only between man and woman, lawfully wedded as husband and wife.
https://www.lds.org/topics/family-procl ... g&old=true

Alma 41:10 Behold, I say unto you, wickedness never was happiness.
https://www.lds.org/scriptures/bofm/alma/41.14

Mosiah 3:19 For the natural man is an enemy to God, and has been from the fall of Adam, and will be, forever and ever, unless he yields to the enticings of the Holy Spirit, and putteth off the natural man and becometh a saint through the atonement of Christ the Lord, and becometh as a child, submissive, meek, humble, patient, full of love, willing to submit to all things which the Lord seeth fit to inflict upon him, even as a child doth submit to his father.
https://www.lds.org/scriptures/bofm/mos ... 9?lang=eng

Modern church leaders don't teach that homosexuality is a sin; they currently teach that homosexual behavior is a sin.

Regardless of your religious dogma, families already can and do come in a variety of shapes and sizes. Some have a married mom and dad. Some don't. I understand your dogma suggests this is only in this mortal, fallen state, because you view other types of families as 'broken.' But I believe, again, that "happiness" isn't a one-size-fits all because not everyone in life is the same.

The Proclamation on the Family doesn't preclude same-sex relationships. Gays and lesbians, by our very nature, don't employ "the sacred powers of procreation"--because our actions never result in procreation. And we participate in non-procreative physical intimacy just as a husband and wife participate in non-procreative physical intimacy as a means of drawing closer together and as mutual expressions of their love and affection.

I agree that wickedness never was happiness, which is how I know that the love and affection my husband and I share isn't wickedness, because of the happiness and other fruits of the spirit (joy, hope, peace) our relationship brings to us.

Marriage, itself, and the commitment to one another and to our family requires all of us--whether between a same-sex or opposite-sex couple--to become submissive, meek, humble, patient, and full of love.

[Arenera]

Homosexuality is a Sin. The church will never backtrack on this 'skewed perspective' ever because then the church would be teaching contrary to the gospel of Jesus Christ which is about families. Families naturally cannot have children without a male husband and female wife.

Just because something is popular doesn't mean it is good or right!

We further declare that God has commanded that the sacred powers of procreation are to be employed only between man and woman, lawfully wedded as husband and wife.
https://www.lds.org/topics/family-procl ... g&old=true

Alma 41:10 Behold, I say unto you, wickedness never was happiness.
https://www.lds.org/scriptures/bofm/alma/41.14

Mosiah 3:19 For the natural man is an enemy to God, and has been from the fall of Adam, and will be, forever and ever, unless he yields to the enticings of the Holy Spirit, and putteth off the natural man and becometh a saint through the atonement of Christ the Lord, and becometh as a child, submissive, meek, humble, patient, full of love, willing to submit to all things which the Lord seeth fit to inflict upon him, even as a child doth submit to his father.
https://www.lds.org/scriptures/bofm/mos ... 9?lang=eng

Modern church leaders don't teach that homosexuality is a sin; they currently teach that homosexual behavior is a sin.

Regardless of your religious dogma, families already can and do come in a variety of shapes and sizes. Some have a married mom and dad. Some don't. I understand your dogma suggests this is only in this mortal, fallen state, because you view other types of families as 'broken.' But I believe, again, that "happiness" isn't a one-size-fits all because not everyone in life is the same.

The Proclamation on the Family doesn't preclude same-sex relationships. Gays and lesbians, by our very nature, don't employ "the sacred powers of procreation"--because our actions never result in procreation. And we participate in non-procreative physical intimacy just as a husband and wife participate in non-procreative physical intimacy as a means of drawing closer together and as mutual expressions of their love and affection.

I agree that wickedness never was happiness, which is how I know that the love and affection my husband and I share isn't wickedness, because of the happiness and other fruits of the spirit (joy, hope, peace) our relationship brings to us.

Marriage, itself, and the commitment to one another and to our family requires all of us--whether between a same-sex or opposite-sex couple--to become submissive, meek, humble, patient, and full of love.

Same gender relationships cannot go forward and multiply and replenish the earth, or heaven.

[Daniel2]

Same gender relationships cannot go forward and multiply and replenish the earth, or heaven.

That's correct; as far as we know, they can't. But that's OK--they don't have to serve the same purpose as heterosexual marriages. Not everyone in life has the same calling; not all must or will be parents in God's kingdom. Just as there is a diversity of vocations here on earth, and just as we all aren't the same and have different talents and gifts, so, too, can there exist a diversity of destinies in the eternities.

That being said, Mormonism has revealed very little on the nature of eternal procreation (as it relates to the organization of intelligences into spirits). Here in mortality, our medical science is on the verge of allowing same-sex couples to procreate without the participation of a second gender:

Biological Same-Sex Parent Babies Could Be a Reality by 2017 :
https://www.thedailybeast.com/biologica ... ty-by-2017

Same-Sex Couples Could Have Babies With Genes From Both Parents Thanks To Scientific Breakthrough: http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2015/12 ... 36470.html

If God is truly omnipotent and his power far exceeds our own, I imagine the powers of godhood would far surpass our limited abilities to allow same-gender couples the ability to procreate.

[Fiannan]

Here in mortality, our medical science is on the verge of allowing same-sex couples to procreate without the participation of a second gender...

Now you are wading into another topic of contention in the forums. Some people are informed of where biotechnology and even artificial intelligence are taking us, and what will be promoting these sciences, and some people think the future will be just as it is today. By the way, you are absolutely right about the news forms of reproduction that will soon be here -- and along with that one could also say that our entire concept of family structure and even sexual orientation will be completely different.

[Elizabeth]

This is not in accordance with Eternal Law, reason, or the will of our Heavenly Father.

If God is truly omnipotent and his power far exceeds our own, I imagine the powers of godhood would far surpass our limited abilities to allow same-gender couples the ability to procreate.

[Daniel2]

This is not in accordance with Eternal Law, reason, or the will of our Heavenly Father.

If God is truly omnipotent and his power far exceeds our own, I imagine the powers of godhood would far surpass our limited abilities to allow same-gender couples the ability to procreate.

Sure it is. God impregnated Mary, who remained a virgin, through the power of the Holy Ghost, so clearly there's alternatives to the type of limited procreation that we mortals are limited to during our mortal state. And it's only unreasonable if you're heterosexual and refuse to be open to the possibility that the omnipotence of God's power could encompass procreative alternatives to those that our crude mortal bodies rely on (especially when we consider that resurrected bodies won't have blood, age, or grow---all of which are essential for the limits of procreation in mortality).

Additionally, as I mentioned, LDS doctrine has revealed virtually nothing about the actual procreation of spirit children. Heterosexuals presume it will be similar to how they create children in mortality, but that's really just an assumption. LDS scriptural cannon is entirely silent on the issue.

[Elizabeth]

Mary, a woman and Heavenly Father a male, and Heavenly Father appointed a mortal man Joseph to rear the child with Mary a woman.

This is not in accordance with Eternal Law, reason, or the will of our Heavenly Father.

If God is truly omnipotent and his power far exceeds our own, I imagine the powers of godhood would far surpass our limited abilities to allow same-gender couples the ability to procreate.

Sure it is. God impregnated Mary, who remained a virgin, through the power of the Holy Ghost, so clearly there's alternatives to the procreation mortals are limited to during their mortal state.

[Daniel2]

Mary, a woman and Heavenly Father a male, and Heavenly Father appointed a mortal man Joseph to rear the child with Mary a woman.

This is not in accordance with Eternal Law, reason, or the will of our Heavenly Father.

If God is truly omnipotent and his power far exceeds our own, I imagine the powers of godhood would far surpass our limited abilities to allow same-gender couples the ability to procreate.

Sure it is. God impregnated Mary, who remained a virgin, through the power of the Holy Ghost, so clearly there's alternatives to the procreation mortals are limited to during their mortal state.

And together, two men (Elohim, the Father, and Jehovah, his son) created Adam, the first man, and both ministered to him in the garden.

See? We're coming up with all KINDS of procreation and parenthood already!