Is Pleasure same as Joy?

[BeNotDeceived]

Pleasure is physical

Joy is our goal.

[brianj]

Pleasure is physical

Joy is our goal.

I'm going to disagree with your first point. I take great pleasure from reading a good book. Is that physical?

[sushi_chef]

physical pleasure can be joyable. for it says,

"15 And the voice spake unto him again the second time, What God hath cleansed, that call not thou common.

34 Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons:

35 But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him.
"

[sushi_chef]

also, says,

"15 Unto the pure all things are pure: but unto them that are defiled and unbelieving is nothing pure; but even their mind and conscience is defiled.
"

[sushi_chef]

and, of course, ideally speaking.

[eddie]

I prefer the distinction between fun and happiness.
Fun is temporary, happiness is long lasting.

For example, my Mother went away from the Church, didn't need it anymore. She was rather wealthy and had fun buying new cars, Mercedes, escalades etc. After a drive or two the mundane set in, she then had to buy something else for fun. She never was happy without the gospel, it is everlasting happiness.

[Rand]

If wickedness never was happiness, can the wicked not experience happiness? This is a trap question.

The distinction here is that there are states of being I will call emotions. Then there are states of being I would call virtues. Happiness can be both a virtue and an emotion. Is the state of emotional happiness the same as the state of the virtue of happiness? No. The wicked can not know the virtue of happiness while they are in the throes of wickedness.

The state of being the scriptures encourage is the state of virtue, not that of emotion. The difference being that virtue is a way of being, and emotion is a way of feeling. Virtue is the byproduct of righteous judgment and emotion is the by product of unrighteous judgment. Virtue is the result of the presence of the Holy Ghost. Emotion does not require the presence of the Holy Spirit. Virtue is a by product of the Grace of God, Emotions are a by product of the natural man. The initial question at the top of the thread is a trap question, because it does not distinguish between the two states of being: Emotion and Virtue. There is no good answer to a bad question. Because of the lack of specificity, it is a bad question.

In the same way, Pleasure can be an emotion, it could possibly be a virtue. I am not sure if it can be a virtue or not. Joy can be an emotion, and it is for sure a virtue. The two states are very different.

Emotions are a state of feeling based on the judgement of a situation or a circumstance. Virtue is a state of being that is godly in nature.

[Juliet]

If wickedness never was happiness, can the wicked not experience happiness? This is a trap question.

The distinction here is that there are states of being I will call emotions. Then there are states of being I would call virtues. Happiness can be both a virtue and an emotion. Is the state of emotional happiness the same as the state of the virtue of happiness? No. The wicked can not know the virtue of happiness while they are in the throes of wickedness.

The state of being the scriptures encourage is the state of virtue, not that of emotion. The difference being that virtue is a way of being, and emotion is a way of feeling. Virtue is the byproduct of righteous judgment and emotion is the by product of unrighteous judgment. Virtue is the result of the presence of the Holy Ghost. Emotion does not require the presence of the Holy Spirit. Virtue is a by product of the Grace of God, Emotions are a by product of the natural man. The initial question at the top of the thread is a trap question, because it does not distinguish between the two states of being: Emotion and Virtue. There is no good answer to a bad question. Because of the lack of specificity, it is a bad question.

In the same way, Pleasure can be an emotion, it could possibly be a virtue. I am not sure if it can be a virtue or not. Joy can be an emotion, and it is for sure a virtue. The two states are very different.

Emotions are a state of feeling based on the judgement of a situation or a circumstance. Virtue is a state of being that is godly in nature.

So as we receive virtue, we have higher ways of comprehending all things, and pleasure or earthly things is properly balanced with love for all.

I think having the Holy Spirit is the ultimate gift that perhaps pleasure all too often is a compensation for, whereas for a virtuous person, pleasure is the outer manifestation of inward glory.

[skmo]

There are very few ways to find joy, they all require significant effort to achieve. There are lots of ways to find pleasure, not all of them lead to joy.

[BeNotDeceived]

Pleasure is physical

Joy is our goal.

I'm going to disagree with your first point. I take great pleasure from reading a good book. Is that physical?

Men are that they might have joy, but this came about in connection with the fall. The pursuit of happiness is how it’s termed in the Declaration of Independence. Perhaps pleasure is experienced in the brain, whereas Joy is felt in the heart, mind and spirit? Pleasure may be carnal and bad, whereas joy is celestial and only good.

Reading righteousness script brings joy to those that seek after it.

What of bodiless Satan? Does he experience joy, pleasure or something else?

[Juliet]

Pleasure is physical

Joy is our goal.

I'm going to disagree with your first point. I take great pleasure from reading a good book. Is that physical?

Men are that they might have joy, but this came about in connection with the fall. The pursuit of happiness is how it’s termed in the Declaration of Independence. Perhaps pleasure is experienced in the brain, whereas Joy is felt in the heart, mind and spirit? Pleasure may be carnal and bad, whereas joy is celestial and only good.

Reading righteousness script brings joy to those that seek after it.

What of bodiless Satan? Does he experience joy, pleasure or something else?

I was reading a study that showed that pedophiles usually have the reward centers malfunctioning, and so they act out because of the hormone dopamine. The hormone has no intersection in the brain with any type of emotional responce, hence, many feel guilty and sad about their actions.

This was a very important note for me, to see that reward response system in our brains is not connected with emotion. In order for us to find emotional joy, pleasure as a reward response in the brain has nothing to do with it.

However, pedophiles, with a non-functioning anti-reward dopamine circuitry are unable to control their urges very well and find themselves doing things to hurt others, which hurts them emotionally as well, but they are addicted to it.

So, I couldn't help but think, what if the solution is to TETHER our pleasure-response system with our emotions? SO, pleasure becomes something that is a reward when it is shared to create emotional well being for others? It isn't going to happen physiologically, it must have a spiritual start.

[skmo]

Pleasure is physical

Joy is our goal.

I'm going to disagree with your first point. I take great pleasure from reading a good book. Is that physical?

In most cases, yes, it is. You read a book for a number of reasons, but if one of them is reading for pleasure, you're at least partially releasing the same feel good chemicals one gets from sex or drugs. That doesn't mean you're not capable of deriving substantive meaning from acquiring new knowledge, but "...great pleasure from reading..." is something one hears much more often from women, and their pleasure centers usually have
more complex wiring than men (face it - we're simple creatures) and I don't doubt your statement, but I've known many women who derive physical pleasure from reading.

That's not to intimate any kind of eroticism into your reading, but the pleasure aspect of it is still usually a physical thing.

[larsenb]

Pleasure is physical

Joy is our goal.

I'm going to disagree with your first point. I take great pleasure from reading a good book. Is that physical?

In most cases, yes, it is. You read a book for a number of reasons, but if one of them is reading for pleasure, you're at least partially releasing the same feel good chemicals one gets from sex or drugs. That doesn't mean you're not capable of deriving substantive meaning from acquiring new knowledge, but "...great pleasure from reading..." is something one hears much more often from women, and their pleasure centers usually have
more complex wiring than men (face it - we're simple creatures) and I don't doubt your statement, but I've known many women who derive physical pleasure from reading.

That's not to intimate any kind of eroticism into your reading, but the pleasure aspect of it is still usually a physical thing.

I still contend that what you find pleasing could be said to give you pleasure . . . same root. You find many things pleasing in life. Strictly tying 'pleasure' to physical pleasure is too either-or, in my view.

[brianj]

Pleasure is physical

Joy is our goal.

I'm going to disagree with your first point. I take great pleasure from reading a good book. Is that physical?

In most cases, yes, it is. You read a book for a number of reasons, but if one of them is reading for pleasure, you're at least partially releasing the same feel good chemicals one gets from sex or drugs. That doesn't mean you're not capable of deriving substantive meaning from acquiring new knowledge, but "...great pleasure from reading..." is something one hears much more often from women, and their pleasure centers usually have
more complex wiring than men (face it - we're simple creatures) and I don't doubt your statement, but I've known many women who derive physical pleasure from reading.

That's not to intimate any kind of eroticism into your reading, but the pleasure aspect of it is still usually a physical thing.

Try this: sit down, close your eyes, and spend a few minutes remembering and visualizing a very exciting and pleasurable experience in your life. Do you feel pleasure even in the absence of physical stimulus?

Right now I am reading Unsinkable by Abby Sunderland. Some of her first words are: "As a sailor, you dream of seeing waves like that, rolling mountains of water that look like they're covered in dark gray silk." In the first chapter of Moby Dick, Ishmael finishes the first paragraph by saying: "If they but knew it, almost all men in their degree, some time or other, cherish very nearly the same feelings towards the ocean with me."

I derive great pleasure from stories like these, stories of people having adventures on the high seas that I dream of. And there's nothing erotic about these stories. Someone who can get turned on by a guy surviving his ship sinking by floating on a friend's coffin, or a 16 year old girl trying to sail around the world solo and nonstop, is a pretty sick person.

[skmo]

Try this: sit down, close your eyes, and spend a few minutes remembering and visualizing a very exciting and pleasurable experience in your life. Do you feel pleasure even in the absence of physical stimulus?

Yes, I do. The pleasure comes from my brain remembering something pleasurable and releasing a chemical, dopamine, that helps me re-experience the pleasure. This is processed by the nucleus accumbens shell, the pleasure center of the brain. An artificial stimulant, like an opioid or a cannabinoid, creates an even stronger reaction, which explains why drugs are so easy to get addicted to, but whether it's natural or artificial, pleasure is a result of a physical change felt by the brain.

[Benjamin_LK]

In my experience, no they are not the same.

[BeNotDeceived]

Happiness same as joy