Spoils of the Gentiles.

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chase
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Spoils of the Gentiles.

Post by chase »

Can anyone tell me where the verse that was removed from the D&C is that says that Mormons will inherit the spoils of the gentiles?

gardener4life
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Re: Spoils of the Gentiles.

Post by gardener4life »

You should rethink your troublesome scheme. It's obvious what you intend to do. You are going to try to create some fictious lie to say that Mormons intend harm and want to get others stuff. Whoever told you of such a verse has no understanding of the scriptures. Go read the New Testament and the Book of Mormon and think about what Jesus taught.

Do you want to be a pharisee that digs a pit for others, or do you want to be a child of faith that trusts Jesus and looks for the love of Christ instead? Digging a pit for others is the path of misery and sorrow.

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friendsofthe
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Re: Spoils of the Gentiles.

Post by friendsofthe »

Chase wrote:
Can anyone tell me where the verse that was removed from the D&C is that says that Mormons will inherit the spoils of the gentiles?
Don’t know anything about it being in the D&C but it’s still in the Book of Mormon, however, the term “Mormons” is not used, ha ha.

To put it in it’s full context we start with 3 Ne. 21:25 and continue through chapter 22:3.
25 And then shall the power of heaven come down among them; and I also will be in the midst

26 And then shall the work of the Father commence at that day, even when this gospel shall be preached among the remnant of this people. Verily I say unto you, at that day shall the work of the Father commence among all the dispersed of my people, yea, even the tribes which have been lost, which the Father hath led away out of Jerusalem.

27 Yea, the work shall commence among all the dispersed of my people, with the Father to prepare the way whereby they may come unto me, that they may call on the Father in my name.

28 Yea, and then shall the work commence, with the Father among all nations in preparing the way whereby his people may be gathered home to the land of their inheritance.

29 And they shall go out from all nations; and they shall not go out in haste, nor go by flight, for I will go before them, saith the Father, and I will be their rearward.

1 And then shall that which is written come to pass: Sing, O barren, thou that didst not bear; break forth into singing, and cry aloud, thou that didst not travail with child; for more are the children of the desolate than the children of the married wife, saith the Lord.

2 Enlarge the place of thy tent, and let them stretch forth the curtains of thy habitations; spare not, lengthen thy cords and strengthen thy stakes;

3 For thou shalt break forth on the right hand and on the left, and thy seed shall inherit the Gentiles and make the desolate cities to be inhabited.
It is the yet un-gathered members of the house of Israel that this promise is given to....

gardener4life
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Re: Spoils of the Gentiles.

Post by gardener4life »

You really shouldn't give him any kindling. He intends to use it to burn people with. Do you really want to be his accomplice? Now he'll go tell his anti friends some lie saying there's a verse in the scriptures talking about taking over other people's cities because he has the heart of a liar. This guy has done such things before and you can find other threads he created. He intends to use that to stir up persecution and you are handing him bullets.

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Re: Spoils of the Gentiles.

Post by Fiannan »

3 For thou shalt break forth on the right hand and on the left, and thy seed shall inherit the Gentiles and make the desolate cities to be inhabited.
Birthrates being as they are in the western world, and what they will eventually look like worldwide, the human race will go extinct on its own anyway - except for those who stick to traditional values.

chase
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Re: Spoils of the Gentiles.

Post by chase »

gardener4life wrote: November 12th, 2017, 12:37 am You should rethink your troublesome scheme. It's obvious what you intend to do. You are going to try to create some fictious lie to say that Mormons intend harm and want to get others stuff. Whoever told you of such a verse has no understanding of the scriptures. Go read the New Testament and the Book of Mormon and think about what Jesus taught.

Do you want to be a pharisee that digs a pit for others, or do you want to be a child of faith that trusts Jesus and looks for the love of Christ instead? Digging a pit for others is the path of misery and sorrow.
If you think I'm not a member of the church anymore...you are correct. I'm doing my freaking thesis and would appreciate the help finding this source. Polemics doesn't read well to historians, so you can rest easy that I won't be spewing forth my venom in an effort to free members from the cages of their own making. Just trying to make a good impression in my thesis defense. As for digging a pit for others, I'll leave Tom Monson and his cronies to do that.

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Joel
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Re: Spoils of the Gentiles.

Post by Joel »

chase wrote: November 11th, 2017, 8:44 pm Can anyone tell me where the verse that was removed from the D&C is that says that Mormons will inherit the spoils of the gentiles?
The main thing I read about the saints taking the spoils of the gentiles was on BYU's Religious Studies Center website:
In fall 1838, at the height of tensions between Mormons and Missourians, certain Latter-day Saint zealots recalled the Law’s original recapitulation of Isaiah’s prophecy and construed it as justification for plundering their enemies. Morris Phelps remembered in this way the charge of Danite leader Sampson Avard to his men: “Know ye not, brethren, that it will soon be your privilege to take your respective companies and go out on a scout on the borders of the settlements, and take to yourselves spoils of the goods of the ungodly Gentiles? for it is written, the riches of the Gentiles shall be consecrated to my people, the house of Israel; and thus you will waste away the Gentiles by robbing and plundering them of their property; and in this way we will build up the kingdom of God.”[34]
[34] Morris Phelps, Reminiscence, as quoted in Joseph Smith, History of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, ed. B. H. Roberts, 2nd ed. rev. (Salt Lake City: Deseret Book, 1957), 3:180. This was corroborated by several witnesses at the Richmond Court of Inquiry in November 1838. There John Cleminson testified that “it was frequently observed among the troops, that the time had come when the riches of the Gentiles should be consecrated to the Saints.” And George Hinkle averred, “It was taught, that the time had come when the riches of the Gentiles were to be consecrated to the true Israel. This thing of taking property was considered a fulfillment of the above prophecy” (Document Containing the Correspondence, Orders, &c. in Relation to the Disturbances with the Mormons [Fayette, MO: Published by Order of the General Assembly, 1841], 115, 128).

Teancum
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Re: Spoils of the Gentiles.

Post by Teancum »

chase wrote: November 12th, 2017, 6:34 am
gardener4life wrote: November 12th, 2017, 12:37 am You should rethink your troublesome scheme. It's obvious what you intend to do. You are going to try to create some fictious lie to say that Mormons intend harm and want to get others stuff. Whoever told you of such a verse has no understanding of the scriptures. Go read the New Testament and the Book of Mormon and think about what Jesus taught.

Do you want to be a pharisee that digs a pit for others, or do you want to be a child of faith that trusts Jesus and looks for the love of Christ instead? Digging a pit for others is the path of misery and sorrow.
If you think I'm not a member of the church anymore...you are correct. I'm doing my freaking thesis and would appreciate the help finding this source. Polemics doesn't read well to historians, so you can rest easy that I won't be spewing forth my venom in an effort to free members from the cages of their own making. Just trying to make a good impression in my thesis defense. As for digging a pit for others, I'll leave Tom Monson and his cronies to do that.
Good luck to you with your thesis. May you find that which you seek.
Last edited by Teancum on November 12th, 2017, 4:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Ezra
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Re: Spoils of the Gentiles.

Post by Ezra »

chase wrote: November 12th, 2017, 6:34 am
gardener4life wrote: November 12th, 2017, 12:37 am You should rethink your troublesome scheme. It's obvious what you intend to do. You are going to try to create some fictious lie to say that Mormons intend harm and want to get others stuff. Whoever told you of such a verse has no understanding of the scriptures. Go read the New Testament and the Book of Mormon and think about what Jesus taught.

Do you want to be a pharisee that digs a pit for others, or do you want to be a child of faith that trusts Jesus and looks for the love of Christ instead? Digging a pit for others is the path of misery and sorrow.
If you think I'm not a member of the church anymore...you are correct. I'm doing my freaking thesis and would appreciate the help finding this source. Polemics doesn't read well to historians, so you can rest easy that I won't be spewing forth my venom in an effort to free members from the cages of their own making. Just trying to make a good impression in my thesis defense. As for digging a pit for others, I'll leave Tom Monson and his cronies to do that.
Switch religions as in you are now atheist?

gardener4life
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Re: Spoils of the Gentiles.

Post by gardener4life »

Joel wrote: November 12th, 2017, 7:50 am
chase wrote: November 11th, 2017, 8:44 pm Can anyone tell me where the verse that was removed from the D&C is that says that Mormons will inherit the spoils of the gentiles?
The main thing I read about the saints taking the spoils of the gentiles was on BYU's Religious Studies Center website:
In fall 1838, at the height of tensions between Mormons and Missourians, certain Latter-day Saint zealots recalled the Law’s original recapitulation of Isaiah’s prophecy and construed it as justification for plundering their enemies. Morris Phelps remembered in this way the charge of Danite leader Sampson Avard to his men: “Know ye not, brethren, that it will soon be your privilege to take your respective companies and go out on a scout on the borders of the settlements, and take to yourselves spoils of the goods of the ungodly Gentiles? for it is written, the riches of the Gentiles shall be consecrated to my people, the house of Israel; and thus you will waste away the Gentiles by robbing and plundering them of their property; and in this way we will build up the kingdom of God.”[34]
[34] Morris Phelps, Reminiscence, as quoted in Joseph Smith, History of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, ed. B. H. Roberts, 2nd ed. rev. (Salt Lake City: Deseret Book, 1957), 3:180. This was corroborated by several witnesses at the Richmond Court of Inquiry in November 1838. There John Cleminson testified that “it was frequently observed among the troops, that the time had come when the riches of the Gentiles should be consecrated to the Saints.” And George Hinkle averred, “It was taught, that the time had come when the riches of the Gentiles were to be consecrated to the true Israel. This thing of taking property was considered a fulfillment of the above prophecy” (Document Containing the Correspondence, Orders, &c. in Relation to the Disturbances with the Mormons [Fayette, MO: Published by Order of the General Assembly, 1841], 115, 128).
I am going to have to correct you on this.
I think...no i am SURE that this is misstated. And you wrote it just how it should not be quoted. Sorry to say that but its true. First off you are quoting people that didn't understand the gospel and caused persecution and mayhem. Sampson Avard had fallen away from the church and he and any so called danites were considered an apostate group. Also the usage of 'spoils' is a very bad, bad term. That's why its not in the topical guide because using it is a wrong term. When you use a term like that psychology it represents and brings to mind looting and pillaging in war. So if you start using or quoting it will stir the pot of people against you. They will think they they have to defend against you physically. So you better watch your steps in this. Thats also why Chase said spoils and not rebuilding. He wants ammunition to say you are a hate group. And his thesis is not going to be anything that helps you or us. It will still be an instrument of fueling hate of others. We've seen Chase's posts before. Some apostates also in the time of Joseph Smith helped cause persecution against the Saints by telling the Missourians that they would be destroyed and they would take their land. (Spoils). (This group was wrong and shouldn't have been doing that. The Lord told them this type of pride and point of view was why they lost the chance to live in Zion.). Historical quotes of people from the 1800s doesn't mean that they understood what they were talking about or had correct views. Their usage of spoils instead of treasures of the gospel shows that these people and others were looking for temporal wealth not truth and light.

Its pretty obvious what someone's intentions are when they say spoils instead of 'rebuilding'. Also the Lord clearly says inheritances have to be done through faith and work, and not through bloodshed. (Spoils is a word that is not good because psychology its close to meaning with looting.) The Saints are also told in the D&C that if they shed blood for temporal gain they will destroyed.). They are also told to love others and help everyone we can. We'd even help Chase if he wouldn't cause us to be persecuted. No offense Chase.

If I said scriptures about rebuilding after destruction that brings hope and faith to others. The New Testament and other scriptures including the Book of Mormon references destruction at the Second Coming of Christ. They quote rebuilding afterwards and a great time of peace and prosperity afterwards. This peace and prosperity will be open to all at that time, not just members of the church.

Now I would correct another point. The reference this is coming from is coming from D&C 133:19 - 35. Specifically its talking about verse 30 and I should explain it. At some point a bunch of people who didn't have the Spirit decided that verse 30 meant they would inherit the spoils of others. That's not what it means. It gets missquoted a lot.

D&C 133:30 And they shall bring forth their rich treasures unto the children of Ephraim, my servants. (There's nothing there about raking in spoils. Also it says they'll give their treasures to Ephraim, they won't be looted.) That's a clue. Also we have to think that this is written the way the Lord would think of a treasure not the way man would think of a treasure. And the U.S. is already a rich country so why would we need more treasure when we already live above others in means? No my friends what this is referring to is spiritual treasures. This can also be several types of treasures.

The clue in the meaning is that the Lord always has spiritual meaning first foremost and temporal meaning last. So he obviously means spiritual treasures not wealth of the world. He also tells us to get out of Babylon. So to the Lord a treasure can mean; inheriting children or family sealing to be together forever, genealogy (someone said recently places in China can trace their genealogy over several thousand years, that's for sure a treasure), proof of the lineage of Israel would be a treasure too (some places in the world have mysterious markings that are linked to Israel that are unexplainable. Like in Japan the symbol for their country is the chrysanthemum and its in the royal house and it just so happens there are places there that reference carrying around arks in their festivals and the royal house symbol is the same one that was on the Jerusalem gate before the tribes were scattered), in the Book of Mormon time, the sword of Laban, the plates were treasures not from being made of metals but for proof of their lineage! And last but not least another set of treasures they will bring will be their scriptures and records. We are told that someday we'll have the scriptures from the lost tribes of Israel and some other lost scriptures. Those are the treasures of the Lord.

Now if you look at that small list and think about it the way the Lord would think about it and you'll think...yeah that makes more sense. thats where we'll get treasures. but they won't be any spoils. Treasure to the Lord also are things in the gospel that mak US his treasures like the gospel programs.
Last edited by gardener4life on November 12th, 2017, 3:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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inho
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Re: Spoils of the Gentiles.

Post by inho »

gardener4life wrote: November 12th, 2017, 3:33 pm
Joel wrote: November 12th, 2017, 7:50 am
chase wrote: November 11th, 2017, 8:44 pm Can anyone tell me where the verse that was removed from the D&C is that says that Mormons will inherit the spoils of the gentiles?
The main thing I read about the saints taking the spoils of the gentiles was on BYU's Religious Studies Center website:
In fall 1838, at the height of tensions between Mormons and Missourians, certain Latter-day Saint zealots recalled the Law’s original recapitulation of Isaiah’s prophecy and construed it as justification for plundering their enemies. Morris Phelps remembered in this way the charge of Danite leader Sampson Avard to his men: “Know ye not, brethren, that it will soon be your privilege to take your respective companies and go out on a scout on the borders of the settlements, and take to yourselves spoils of the goods of the ungodly Gentiles? for it is written, the riches of the Gentiles shall be consecrated to my people, the house of Israel; and thus you will waste away the Gentiles by robbing and plundering them of their property; and in this way we will build up the kingdom of God.”[34]
[34] Morris Phelps, Reminiscence, as quoted in Joseph Smith, History of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, ed. B. H. Roberts, 2nd ed. rev. (Salt Lake City: Deseret Book, 1957), 3:180. This was corroborated by several witnesses at the Richmond Court of Inquiry in November 1838. There John Cleminson testified that “it was frequently observed among the troops, that the time had come when the riches of the Gentiles should be consecrated to the Saints.” And George Hinkle averred, “It was taught, that the time had come when the riches of the Gentiles were to be consecrated to the true Israel. This thing of taking property was considered a fulfillment of the above prophecy” (Document Containing the Correspondence, Orders, &c. in Relation to the Disturbances with the Mormons [Fayette, MO: Published by Order of the General Assembly, 1841], 115, 128).
I am going to have to correct you on this.
I think...no i am SURE that this is misstated. And you wrote it just how it should not be quoted. Sorry to say that but its true. First off you are quoting people that didn't understand the gospel and caused persecution and mayhem. Sampson Avard had fallen away from the church and he and any so called danites were considered an apostate group.
Since the quote Joel provided is actually just quoting History of Church, here is a link to that Chapter, so that people can read it in context:
https://byustudies.byu.edu/content/volume-3-chapter-13

And here are some articles about Sampson Avard:
The Danite Band of 1838 by Leland Gentry in BYU Studies Vol 14 No 4 (1973)
Sampson Avard: The First Danite by Fred Woods in Mormon Historical Studies Vol 5 (2004)

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inho
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Re: Spoils of the Gentiles.

Post by inho »

Joel wrote: November 12th, 2017, 7:50 am
chase wrote: November 11th, 2017, 8:44 pm Can anyone tell me where the verse that was removed from the D&C is that says that Mormons will inherit the spoils of the gentiles?
The main thing I read about the saints taking the spoils of the gentiles was on BYU's Religious Studies Center website:
Joel, I'm surprised that you didn't quote the previous paragraph in that book, since it really answers chase's question. A verse was not removed from D&C. Instead, the Prophet did a revision (before publishing) because of the false interpretations like that of Sampson Avard's.

Here is the quote:
"Embedded in the Law’s consideration of consecration is this unusual statement: “For it shall come to pass that which I spake by the mouth of my prophets shall be fulfilled for I will consecrate the riches of the Gentiles unto my people which are of the house of Israel” (v. 39). This alludes to the prophecy of Isaiah that Israel would one day “eat the riches of the Gentiles, and in their glory shall ye boast yourselves” (Isaiah 61:6). Reiterated in the Law, some Latter-day Saints seem to have entertained grandiose but misguided visions of the prophecy’s fulfillment. ... In the face of such misreadings, the Prophet was impressed to make a crucial clarification when he published this passage in the Doctrine and Covenants: “For I will consecrate of the riches of those who embrace my gospel among the Gentiles, unto the poor of my people who are of the house of Israel” (D&C 42:39; emphasis added)."

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Re: Spoils of the Gentiles.

Post by Benjamin_LK »

My response, even in the face of great disaster, would be as Abraham. BTW, people should look at what Abraham did when offered spoils of war.

Fiannan
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Re: Spoils of the Gentiles.

Post by Fiannan »

Someone shared this with me on social media and I thought of this thread.

gardener4life
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Re: Spoils of the Gentiles.

Post by gardener4life »

The part you put up about the Yazidis being Aryans is also true for the Pashtos, Pahkto, and Pushto tribes of Afghanistan. Many of the Afghanistan tribes for thousands of years have thought they were 'Beni Israel' which they take to mean exiled Israel or from Israel. They even have an idea which tribe some of their mini tribes are from. The royal house holding rulership of Afghanistan a hundred years ago also had their geneology mapped out back to the tribe of Benjamin.

There is a lot of other evidence on this that's really eye opening to go over too and someone has a video on it on youtube but I for the moment forgot the name of it or where the link is at. I saw it a couple months ago. If I remember I'll repost it. Also by saying this I'm adding to what you said and not discounting it. It's really interesting when we see evidences of the scriptures and of Israelites or priesthood lineage in the world. (Priesthood lineage is also a treasure of the gospel.)

(I don't think there's only one place in the world for exiled Israelites to be in though because the Lord says in the scriptures that he'll send them throughout the world. So this might not be 'the main group' we're waiting to come back someday or not. But it's very interesting nonetheless.

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Re: Spoils of the Gentiles.

Post by eddie »

gardener4life wrote: November 12th, 2017, 12:37 am You should rethink your troublesome scheme. It's obvious what you intend to do. You are going to try to create some fictious lie to say that Mormons intend harm and want to get others stuff. Whoever told you of such a verse has no understanding of the scriptures. Go read the New Testament and the Book of Mormon and think about what Jesus taught.

Do you want to be a pharisee that digs a pit for others, or do you want to be a child of faith that trusts Jesus and looks for the love of Christ instead? Digging a pit for others is the path of misery and sorrow.
You got him pegged!

eddie
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Re: Spoils of the Gentiles.

Post by eddie »

chase wrote: November 12th, 2017, 6:34 am
gardener4life wrote: November 12th, 2017, 12:37 am You should rethink your troublesome scheme. It's obvious what you intend to do. You are going to try to create some fictious lie to say that Mormons intend harm and want to get others stuff. Whoever told you of such a verse has no understanding of the scriptures. Go read the New Testament and the Book of Mormon and think about what Jesus taught.

Do you want to be a pharisee that digs a pit for others, or do you want to be a child of faith that trusts Jesus and looks for the love of Christ instead? Digging a pit for others is the path of misery and sorrow.
If you think I'm not a member of the church anymore...you are correct. I'm doing my freaking thesis and would appreciate the help finding this source. Polemics doesn't read well to historians, so you can rest easy that I won't be spewing forth my venom in an effort to free members from the cages of their own making. Just trying to make a good impression in my thesis defense. As for digging a pit for others, I'll leave Tom Monson and his cronies to do that.
Seeing up from the depth of your own pit, I doubt you have a clear vision of what anybody is doing, not to mention the dust you stir up with childish temper tantrums. Your rhetoric is amusing at best. 🐀

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TrueIntent
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Re: Spoils of the Gentiles.

Post by TrueIntent »

chase wrote: November 12th, 2017, 6:34 am
gardener4life wrote: November 12th, 2017, 12:37 am You should rethink your troublesome scheme. It's obvious what you intend to do. You are going to try to create some fictious lie to say that Mormons intend harm and want to get others stuff. Whoever told you of such a verse has no understanding of the scriptures. Go read the New Testament and the Book of Mormon and think about what Jesus taught.

Do you want to be a pharisee that digs a pit for others, or do you want to be a child of faith that trusts Jesus and looks for the love of Christ instead? Digging a pit for others is the path of misery and sorrow.
If you think I'm not a member of the church anymore...you are correct. I'm doing my freaking thesis and would appreciate the help finding this source. Polemics doesn't read well to historians, so you can rest easy that I won't be spewing forth my venom in an effort to free members from the cages of their own making. Just trying to make a good impression in my thesis defense. As for digging a pit for others, I'll leave Tom Monson and his cronies to do that.
Gardner4Life....i don't think information digs pits for others. If its true, if it happened we should be able to have a logical discussion....pharisees and scribes actually withheld information......now, to the scriptures.....

I have never heard of this verse before (about the mormons and spoils), but it might interest you to know, that "gentiles" inheriting spoils also occurs in the Old Testament. i was just reading this the other day. As the children of israel exit Egypt, they are to take the "spoils" of the egyptians...I actually view this as more of a symbolic reference. but either way....Mormons are supposed to pattern israel just as joseph smith patterns moses. It makes sense to me if this verse did exist. They were supposed to take the spoils of the egyptians.

Exodus 12:35 And the children of Israel did according to the word of Moses; and they borrowed of the Egyptians jewels of silver, and jewels of gold, and raiment:

36 And the Lord gave the people favour in the sight of the Egyptians, so that they lent unto them such things as they required. And they spoiled the Egyptians.

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