Rand wrote: ↑January 8th, 2019, 9:06 pm
I AM wrote: ↑January 8th, 2019, 7:43 pm
Rand wrote: ↑January 8th, 2019, 3:13 pm
I AM wrote: ↑January 6th, 2019, 8:41 pm
more like - he was hitting a little too close to home by bring out the truth of really where the church is - in apostasy.
Referring to our church and the sad condition we are in,
Isaiah begins his book speaking to us,
Ephraim, or the church today.
Isaiah 1:2-5
Description of modern Ephraim
(addressing our church he calls Israel)
2 Hear, O heavens! Give heed, O earth!
Jehovah has spoken:I have reared sons,
brought them up,but they have revolted against me.
3 The ox knows its owner,the donkey its master’s stall,
but Israel does not know;my people are insensible.
4 Alas, a nation astray,a people weighed down by sin,
the offspring of wrongdoers,perverse children:
they have forsaken Jehovah,they have spurned
the Holy One of Israel,they have lapsed into APOSTASY.
Who ascribes Isaiah's writing to the modern Church?
Isaiah specifically says he is referring to Judah.
1 The vision of Isaiah the son of Amoz, which he saw concerning Judah and Jerusalem in the days of Uzziah, Jotham, Ahaz, and Hezekiah, kings of Judah."
Your saying it applies to the modern LDS Church may be only your opinion, not fact, as you assert it to be. Personally, I don't think you are right in your application of it.
We can all repent and be better. Not saying the whole church is as righteous as it needs to be. But it seems to me you are saying you are righteous and the brethren and the body of the church are off base.
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I am saying I am righteous ?
How does quoting Isaiah say that I am righteous ?
It's what Isaiah' is saying, not me.
And YES, Isaiah, along with the words of Jesus Christ and prophets in the Book of Mormon,
not only say that the church is off base, but in apostasy.
I could quote pages of scriptures (which I have already done in this forum) showing this.
Look up some of my posts and comments.
The first 3 chapters of Isaiah bring out the major sins of the people and of the church.
Isaiah has now been unsealed and brought
to light by the Lord for our understanding in these last days.
Isaiah 44:7
7 "Who predicts what happens as do I, and is the equal of me in
appointing a people from of old as types, foretelling things to come?
Isaiah uses what are called types from the past to show the future.
What has happened before, will happen again.
ALL THE PROPHECIES OF ISAIAH PERTAIN TO US TODAY
All prophecies in Isaiah are prophecies of the last days.
http://www.isaiahexplained.com/
Here is one you might want to read taking about the church - "the drunkards of Ephraim! "
Isaiah 28
http://www.isaiahexplained.com/28#commentary
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Did you realize that in the 29th chapter of Isaiah he describes the coming forth
of the original plates of the Book of Mormon and the attitude
of the people against it.
taken from: LDS Seminary Student Study Guide
"Isaiah 29 is one place in the Bible where the Book of Mormon is referred to, even though it is not mentioned by name.
As you read this chapter, look for prophecies of the coming forth of the Book of Mormon and the impact this book will have on the world."
Now if the 29th Chapter of Isaiah refers to our people and nation,
then it is very feasible that the 28th chapter may also refer to us.
If you want a big wake up call please read it !
If you study this 28th chapter of Isaiah
it will reveal that every word applies to our church in these days
and to no other people.
Isaiah cites that this people would be given "precept upon precept;
precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little and there a little."
These identical words, were used by the Prophet Joseph Smith among his closing instructions to the latter day saints, warning us to go forward not backward. D.C.128:21-22 ; 2Nephi 28:30
Isaiah 28:13 "But the word of the Lord was unto them
precept upon precept, precept upon precept;
line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little;
that they might go, and fall backward, and be broken,
and snared, and taken."
We are still satisfied with the ABC portions of the gospel.
We will not accept the meat portions of the gospel.
Isaiah 28:
9 Whom shall he give instruction?
Whom shall he enlighten with revelation?
Weanlings weaned from milk,those just taken from the breast?
10 For it is but line upon line, line upon line,precept upon precept,
precept upon precept;a trifle here, a trifle there.
To me, you quote Isaiah according to your own interpretation that seems to condemn almost everyone else. So, you are setting yourself up as better than everyone else, or almost everyone else.
I was just reading in TPJS and read this:
"Do Not Betray the Brethren
O ye Twelve! and all Saints! profit by this important Key—that in all your trials, troubles, temptations, afflictions, bonds, imprisonments and death,
see to it, that you do not betray heaven; that you
do not betray Jesus Christ; that you
do not betray the brethren; that you do not betray the revelations of God, whether in the Bible, Book of Mormon, or Doctrine and Covenants, or any other that ever was or ever will be given and revealed unto man in this world or that which is to come. Yea, in all your kicking and flounderings, see to it that you do not this thing, lest innocent blood be found upon your skirts, and you go down to hell. All other sins are not to be compared to sinning against the Holy Ghost, and proving a traitor to the brethren.
A Key to Mysteries
I will give you one of the Keys of the mysteries of the Kingdom. It is an eternal principle, that has existed with God from all eternity: That man who rises up to condemn others, finding fault with the Church, saying that they are out of the way, while he himself is righteous, then know assuredly, that that man is in the high road to apostasy; and if he does not repent, will apostatize, as God lives. The principle is as correct as the one that Jesus put forth in saying that he who seeketh a sign is an adulterous person; and that principle is eternal, undeviating, and firm as the pillars of heaven; for whenever you see a man seeking after a sign, you may set it down that he is an adulterous man."
Uhm, it sounds to me like you are doing just this. Maybe I am wrong and misunderstand you. If that is so, I apologize. But, I don't think I do.
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Again, you better study the words of Isaiah my friend
http://www.isaiahexplained.com/
My post in this forum
viewtopic.php?f=31&t=31850
and do as Jesus commanded us to do,
because "all is NOT well in Zion " as you think it is.
2 Nephi 28:21,24,25
21 And others will he pacify,
and lull them away into carnal security,
that they will say: All is well in Zion;
yea, Zion prospereth, all is well—
and thus the devil cheateth their souls,
and leadeth them away carefully down to hell.
24 Therefore, wo be unto him that is at ease in Zion!
25 Wo be unto him that crieth: All is well!
WHY DID THE LORD HIMSELF SAY
"for great are the words of Isaiah" and
gave us a commandment that we search them diligently.
Because they are speaking about us - the church and it's leaders.
3 Nephi 23:1- 4
1 "And now, behold, I say unto you,
that ye ought to search these things.
Yea, a commandment I give unto
you that ye search these things diligently;
for great are the words of Isaiah."
2 "For surely he spake as touching all things
concerning my people which are of the house of Israel;
therefore it must needs be that he must speak
also to the Gentiles."
3 "And all things that he spake (have been and shall be),
even according to the words which he spake."
4 "Therefore give heed to my words;
write the things which I have told you;
and according to the time and the will
of the Father they shall go forth unto the Gentiles."
3 Nephi 20:11
11 "Ye remember that I spake unto you,
and said that when the words of Isaiah
should be fulfilled—behold they are written,
ye have them before you, therefore search them-"
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If Jesus himself has said -
3 Nephi 23:1- 4
1 "And now, behold, I say unto you,
that
ye ought to search these things.
Yea, a commandment I give unto
you that ye search these things diligently;
for great are the words of Isaiah."
Why does our prophet and church leaders never talk about Isaiah or quote him ?
Could it be that they don't understand him ? and if they don't understand him, do they really have the spirit of prophecy ?
"Wherefore, hearken, O my people, which are of the house of Israel, and give ear unto my words; for because the words of Isaiah are not plain unto you,
nevertheless they are plain unto all those that are filled with the spirit of prophecy "
(2 Nephi 25:4) in part
quote
"As we watch General Conference we should look for the spirit of prophecy." not just listen to nice talks
"The scriptures warn us that in the last days there will be prophets who do not prophesy and seers who do not see (Isaiah 30:10). Jesus also warned that there would be false prophets and an abundance of men teaching their own precepts to get gain, so that even the very elect will be deceived (2 Nephi 26:29; JS Matthew 1:22).
As Latter-day Saints we must learn what a true prophet is and we must learn to discern between true and false prophets lest we also be deceived.
The scriptures provide a standard by which we can all judge.
Simply put, a prophet must have the spirit of prophecy in order to be a true prophet. This is the sign.
As we watch General Conference we should look for the spirit of prophecy. We should measure carefully what is being said. We should pray that those who we sustain as prophets will prophesy and speak prophetically because when prophets and seers, prophesy and see, they become a great benefit to their fellow man (Mosiah 8:18). This is the means whereby we can receive salvation.
If men who are called prophets do not have the spirit of prophecy we can know they are false prophets.
Nephi gives us an important bar by which we can measure:
Wherefore, hearken, O my people, which are of the house of Israel, and give ear unto my words; for because the words of Isaiah are not plain unto you, nevertheless they are plain unto all those that are filled with the spirit of prophecy (2 Nephi 25:4).
All prophets will understand the words of Isaiah.
They will also share the testimony of the Savior and of Nephi and others that the words of Isaiah are great!
When’s the last time you heard an LDS prophet give a talk on the words of Isaiah in General Conference?
When Jesus came to the Nephites, He gave them the “commandment to search these things diligently; for great are the words of Isaiah.”
Do the servants of the Lord today emphasize this same commandment?
Today’s prophets write books such as: Counseling With Our Councils,
The Christmas Train, A Future As Bright As Your Faith, To The Rescue, Forget Me Not, and 21 Principles.
The above may be excellent topics,
but why do today’s LDS prophets not speak or write of Isaiah?
Why do they not rejoice in his words?
Why do they not explain what his words mean?
If these words are so great and so relevant to us in our day, why are the so called prophets
not using their “spirit of prophecy” in a way that would render Isaiah’s vital words easier to understand?
Is it possible that these prophets do not understand the words of Isaiah?
If so, can they be true prophets?
Jesus said “ALL who have the spirit of prophecy” will easily understand Isaiah’s words.
They will comprehend them in plainness. If these prophets rely upon trained scholars to understand Isaiah,
would this be evidence that such men are not true prophets?
I leave that for you to judge."