Mike Stroud Reeled in by the church

For discussion of liberty, freedom, government and politics.
Post Reply
brianj
captain of 1,000
Posts: 4066
Location: Vineyard, Utah

Re: Mike Stroud Reeled in by the church

Post by brianj »

watchthewatchers wrote: November 22nd, 2017, 12:44 pm It could be that he had an Oh crap! epiphony as he watched Snuffer loosing his steam, so Mike jumped ship before the whole thing Titanics.
I think the Bismarck is a better metaphor than the Titanic.

User avatar
h_p
captain of 1,000
Posts: 2811

Re: Mike Stroud Reeled in by the church

Post by h_p »

TrueIntent wrote: November 22nd, 2017, 4:16 pm so what topics specifically was Mike teaching that they disagree with.......?
Inho posted the specifics from his latest podcast transcription above, as to what he said he shouldn't have taught. I think the podcasts are still available on that site he linked to if you want to download them and listen.

User avatar
TrueIntent
captain of 100
Posts: 974

Re: Mike Stroud Reeled in by the church

Post by TrueIntent »

inho wrote: November 21st, 2017, 2:34 am
stillwater wrote: November 20th, 2017, 4:34 pm >Mike Stroud has been counseled and talked to by the church, has admitted a list of inappropriate teachings,

Looks like the podcast was taken down before I could hear it. What was the list of teachings he admitted were inappropriate?
There have been times when I have not followed the revelatory counsel given in Doctrine and Covenants 63:64 and I have taught and said things that were outside of the protective umbrella of priesthood keys and inspired direction. It was inappropriate for me to teach:
  • That person should seek to be translated or seek and ordinance of translation and become members of the 144,000 spoken of in scripture.
  • That temple ordinances, specifically the use of alters should be practiced outside of the temple
  • That the Church of Latter-day Saints is Aaronic in nature and preparatory to the Melchizedec Priesthood institution referred to in scripture as the Church of the Firstborn.
  • That people should seek Priesthood ordinations outside of the ordained channels found within the Church.
  • That priesthood healings and ordinances should be practiced using prescribed format and that they can be performed over the phone.
You can find the podcast here as mp3 or pdf-transcript.
Questions....Adam built an altar outside the temple....so did Levi, .....Jospeh smith taught that the temple endowment was for the 144,000 who would come forth in the last days.....so shouldn't we be seeking that ordinance???? His understanding of the church being Aaronic in nature is my understanding as well.....I got this from passages of the Joseph smith translation in genesis in d&c....the scritptures teach that God can ordain anyone he wants to the priesthood...it doesn't come through a church it comes through him (the church is merely an instituted pattern of how a Zion type society might function, they administer ordinances which are patterns, not Power). According to the scriptures...Christ healed people who weren't even in his presence...at his word alone, so I would argue...a phone call would work for someone like jesus who doesn't just have authority...but also possesses power....at his word, healing or blessings are done..

So why was he asked not to teach this stuff? ...it seems in Line with scripture and the teachings of Joseph smith, and Mormonism.

User avatar
TrueIntent
captain of 100
Posts: 974

Re: Mike Stroud Reeled in by the church

Post by TrueIntent »

As for d&c 63:64
64 Remember that that which cometh from above is sacred, and must be spoken with care, and by constraint of the Spirit; and in this there is no condemnation, and ye receive the Spirit through prayer; wherefore, without this there remaineth condemnation.

Read the verses just prior and Look up ""authority" in the topical guide and every single scripture says authority is coming from God not the leadership or brethren.....that's a stretch for them to use this scripture and say that he can't teach.....based on this interpretation, NOBODY should be writing any commentary or attempting to interpret any scripture on there own.....it also says you receive the spirit by prayer


Also in that same chapter the Lord condemns Sydney rigdon and says his writing is no longer acceptable to him,...if that can apply to Sidney it can also apply to the current 12.

Ahometheaterguy
Hi, I'm new.
Posts: 1

Re: Mike Stroud Reeled in by the church

Post by Ahometheaterguy »

From brother Strouds book "Highly Favored of the Lord"; page 127, third paragraph I quote his words out of context:" In my opinion, this is Mike Stroud". This phrase and the fact that this books do not have the official Church logo on the back makes me want to stick to the general authorities, and scriptures to gain knowledge.

TCF
Hi, I'm new.
Posts: 1

Re: Mike Stroud Reeled in by the church

Post by TCF »

I know Mike Stroud, I came to know him some time before his mission ended in NJ. This was right before he started his podcast. First I’d say Mike is a great man and he sustains the brethren of the church. From my perspective he had no intentions of misleading or doing anything the church would not support. He was a great teacher and his teaching abilities bless many people. I don’t recall him ever teaching any false doctrine and when he shared his opinion he often stated it was just his opinion. He did teach some deap doctrines that might of been appropriate to the group originally listening to his podcast but not appropriate for the larger audience that gathered. For this reason and the fact that similar situations have really led people
Astray the church wisely puts a stop to them. In my opinion you can get similar information and knowledge by attending your local institute classes.

Mike’s response seems to be one of humility and shows the respect he has for Christ’s church and it’s leaders. I respect him for taking the council from his leaders if that’s what he has done.

Rand
captain of 1,000
Posts: 2472

Re: Mike Stroud Reeled in by the church

Post by Rand »

TCF wrote: February 26th, 2018, 10:10 am I know Mike Stroud, I came to know him some time before his mission ended in NJ. This was right before he started his podcast. First I’d say Mike is a great man and he sustains the brethren of the church. From my perspective he had no intentions of misleading or doing anything the church would not support. He was a great teacher and his teaching abilities bless many people. I don’t recall him ever teaching any false doctrine and when he shared his opinion he often stated it was just his opinion. He did teach some deap doctrines that might of been appropriate to the group originally listening to his podcast but not appropriate for the larger audience that gathered. For this reason and the fact that similar situations have really led people
Astray the church wisely puts a stop to them. In my opinion you can get similar information and knowledge by attending your local institute classes.

Mike’s response seems to be one of humility and shows the respect he has for Christ’s church and it’s leaders. I respect him for taking the council from his leaders if that’s what he has done.
Agreed! I appreciate his response to the chastening. A sign of a good man.

RBD
Hi, I'm new.
Posts: 2

Re: Mike Stroud Reeled in by the church

Post by RBD »

I’m an energy worker who has a dad who served as a bishop and has always supported energy work and I have visited with my current bishop and he supports me as well. But in my energy work community, many people talked about his podcasts so I decided to check it out. From the beginning, his content was almost truth, but not quite. I never felt the Spirit. I was appalled that people were so supportive of him and his content.

Some people asked what topics were false and here are a couple that I know of and deeply searched truth from doctrinal sources about. But I have only listened to a small portion of them, so I don’t even know about his calling and election, 144,000, etc. topics that others on the thread are concerned about. And they do seem incredibly concerning especially the one about ordinances being preformed in the home or over the phone. Not sure if that’s really true, but that’s definitely concerning.

The topics I have been turned off by because of the false doctrine taught in them have been:

1) Him saying that the light of Christ is what we have been promised to always have with us in the sacramental prayer and not the Holy Ghost. I’m really surprised this has been such a popular one in my circles because it’s so easily debunked. There’s nothing that can separate us from the light of Christ, so why would that be a promise made from God to us? It’s just not logical.

2) That spiritual gifts are something that all people have access to, when it’s extremely clear that doctrinally only people who have been confirmed with the gift of the Holy Ghost have access to spiritual gifts.

3) That the gift of the Holy Ghost was not something given to us AT confirmation and that it’s something that we have to work really hard at to receive and most members are walking around WITHOUT the gift of the Holy Ghost.

The thing that’s most concerning to me is that in one of his last podcasts, he admitted that he had shared some things that were not in alignment with the Brethren. And he just shrugged his shoulders at it. The podcast was entiteled “Tying up Loose Ends”.

I’m surprised that he’s starting to do podcasts again and I was really surprised that his podcast that talks about the light of Christ and the sacrament that he did years ago is back up on his podcasts.

This is how God’s elect is to be led astray, by people who seem like they can be trusted like former CES teachers.

We have to stay close to the Holy Ghost and Brethren.

I AM
captain of 1,000
Posts: 2456

Re: Mike Stroud Reeled in by the church

Post by I AM »

5tev3 wrote: November 8th, 2017, 5:00 pm Honestly I don’t know Mike Stroud, but he seems like a humble man. Sounds like he was teaching some unfounded or misapplied philosophies and was willing to set them aside.
------------------

more like - he was hitting a little too close to home by bring out the truth of really where the church is - in apostasy.

Referring to our church and the sad condition we are in,
Isaiah begins his book speaking to us,
Ephraim, or the church today.

Isaiah 1:2-5
Description of modern Ephraim
(addressing our church he calls Israel)

2 Hear, O heavens! Give heed, O earth!
Jehovah has spoken:I have reared sons,
brought them up,but they have revolted against me.
3 The ox knows its owner,the @#$ its master’s stall,
but Israel does not know;my people are insensible.
4 Alas, a nation astray,a people weighed down by sin,
the offspring of wrongdoers,perverse children:
they have forsaken Jehovah,they have spurned
the Holy One of Israel,they have lapsed into APOSTASY.

I AM
captain of 1,000
Posts: 2456

Re: Mike Stroud Reeled in by the church

Post by I AM »

I've exchanged a few emails with him quite some time ago .
He is a very knowledgeable humble man who loves the gospel -
and also the truth.

User avatar
nightlight
Level 34 Illuminated
Posts: 8407

Re: Mike Stroud Reeled in by the church

Post by nightlight »

I liked his talks

User avatar
Kingdom of ZION
captain of 1,000
Posts: 1939

Re: Mike Stroud Reeled in by the church

Post by Kingdom of ZION »

RBD wrote: January 6th, 2019, 5:19 am I’m an energy worker who has a dad who served as a bishop and has always supported energy work and I have visited with my current bishop and he supports me as well. But in my energy work community, many people talked about his podcasts so I decided to check it out. From the beginning, his content was almost truth, but not quite. I never felt the Spirit. I was appalled that people were so supportive of him and his content.

Some people asked what topics were false and here are a couple that I know of and deeply searched truth from doctrinal sources about. But I have only listened to a small portion of them, so I don’t even know about his calling and election, 144,000, etc. topics that others on the thread are concerned about. And they do seem incredibly concerning especially the one about ordinances being preformed in the home or over the phone. Not sure if that’s really true, but that’s definitely concerning.

The topics I have been turned off by because of the false doctrine taught in them have been:

1) Him saying that the light of Christ is what we have been promised to always have with us in the sacramental prayer and not the Holy Ghost. I’m really surprised this has been such a popular one in my circles because it’s so easily debunked. There’s nothing that can separate us from the light of Christ, so why would that be a promise made from God to us? It’s just not logical.

2) That spiritual gifts are something that all people have access to, when it’s extremely clear that doctrinally only people who have been confirmed with the gift of the Holy Ghost have access to spiritual gifts.

3) That the gift of the Holy Ghost was not something given to us AT confirmation and that it’s something that we have to work really hard at to receive and most members are walking around WITHOUT the gift of the Holy Ghost.

The thing that’s most concerning to me is that in one of his last podcasts, he admitted that he had shared some things that were not in alignment with the Brethren. And he just shrugged his shoulders at it. The podcast was entiteled “Tying up Loose Ends”.

I’m surprised that he’s starting to do podcasts again and I was really surprised that his podcast that talks about the light of Christ and the sacrament that he did years ago is back up on his podcasts.

This is how God’s elect is to be led astray, by people who seem like they can be trusted like former CES teachers.

We have to stay close to the Holy Ghost and Brethren.
There are many who would say the very same thing about Energy Work / Muscle Testing. And it really does not matter who approves you doing so, it does not make it correct principle or true. It is not found in the scriptures and is a counterfeit for true faith, the spirit and Priesthood. I have seen many who were also appalled that people were so supportive of such practices.

Some people asked about this topics Energy healing, whether it is false and here are a couple of things that I know of and have deeply searched truth from doctrinal sources about. We have example of Joseph Smith blessing a handy and sending it unto the sick and they were made well. That just by a believing person of faith, the touching of the Messiah's rob, brought healing. I have only listened to a small portion of these examples or healings by prayer, fasting, and faith, so I don’t even know about every person who has preformed such miracles, etc. but there are others who have done much, even in our day, such as Iohani Otto Melila Wolfgramm, born: January 20, 1911 and Died: September 16, 1997. It was claimed that he once raised the dead and healed many many people by priesthood/faith. I have a good friend who's brother I meet and worked for, for one summer. He was healed over the phone by taking to Iohani. I have been in Iohani home and visited with him a few years before his death, so it is not just a hear-say story. You might be equally concerned about such claims. And they do seem incredible concerning especially that one without a calling does such ordinances being preformed in his home or over the phone. You might also claim, not sure if that’s really true, but that’s definitely concerning.

If I lived in a glass house and wanted people to take my faith or deeds serious, presuming you have such... I would not through stones at others who are doing equally different and non-conventional things. There are many who also claim energy working is not of G_d, and is a path to being ensnared by the deceptions of the adversary.

User avatar
GrandMasterB
captain of 1,000
Posts: 1125

Re: Mike Stroud Reeled in by the church

Post by GrandMasterB »

RBD wrote: January 6th, 2019, 5:19 am I’m an energy worker who has a dad who served as a bishop and has always supported energy work and I have visited with my current bishop and he supports me as well. But in my energy work community, many people talked about his podcasts so I decided to check it out. From the beginning, his content was almost truth, but not quite. I never felt the Spirit. I was appalled that people were so supportive of him and his content.

Some people asked what topics were false and here are a couple that I know of and deeply searched truth from doctrinal sources about. But I have only listened to a small portion of them, so I don’t even know about his calling and election, 144,000, etc. topics that others on the thread are concerned about. And they do seem incredibly concerning especially the one about ordinances being preformed in the home or over the phone. Not sure if that’s really true, but that’s definitely concerning.

The topics I have been turned off by because of the false doctrine taught in them have been:

1) Him saying that the light of Christ is what we have been promised to always have with us in the sacramental prayer and not the Holy Ghost. I’m really surprised this has been such a popular one in my circles because it’s so easily debunked. There’s nothing that can separate us from the light of Christ, so why would that be a promise made from God to us? It’s just not logical.

2) That spiritual gifts are something that all people have access to, when it’s extremely clear that doctrinally only people who have been confirmed with the gift of the Holy Ghost have access to spiritual gifts.

3) That the gift of the Holy Ghost was not something given to us AT confirmation and that it’s something that we have to work really hard at to receive and most members are walking around WITHOUT the gift of the Holy Ghost.

The thing that’s most concerning to me is that in one of his last podcasts, he admitted that he had shared some things that were not in alignment with the Brethren. And he just shrugged his shoulders at it. The podcast was entiteled “Tying up Loose Ends”.

I’m surprised that he’s starting to do podcasts again and I was really surprised that his podcast that talks about the light of Christ and the sacrament that he did years ago is back up on his podcasts.

This is how God’s elect is to be led astray, by people who seem like they can be trusted like former CES teachers.

We have to stay close to the Holy Ghost and Brethren.
I should have stopped reading at “I am an energy worker” but alas I am weak. I know what or who inspires energy work and it ain’t the Holy Ghost my friend. With that said, I listened to all of Mike’s original podcasts. You have taken everything out of context and twisted some things he discussed. He was very clear when he had opinions and never to my knowledge taught any of his opinions as gospel truth. Leaders within the church did counsel him and asked that he pull some of the things he shared his opinions on. People were getting all bent out of shape because someone dared to reach for the furthest branches of the gospel. That is why he was asked to pull it. If people are scared about what Mike shares then if they don’t strengthen their testimonies fast it won’t sustain them when the actual false teachers and deceives come among them. BTW. I didn’t embrace all of Mike’s “opinions”, but still enjoyed hearing his perspective.

Maroriginal1
captain of 100
Posts: 215

Re: Mike Stroud Reeled in by the church

Post by Maroriginal1 »

I too listened to all his original podcasts. The depth of gospel knowledge he has is impressive. I learned a lot and found a new desire to study many topics on my own. As podcasts progressed little red flags came out here and there as he excercused his opinion more. I’m not saying it was all incorrect. But it missed the mark of us gaining testimonies for ourselves line upon line. I was done once he openly campaigned his efforts to become part of the 44 hundred. It is one thing to share opinions. It’s another to cast your pearls before swine. The internet is no respecter of persons. However, anybody in the church can post an opinion, write a blog, book, or video. There is no church police to reign everybody in. What we sift through today is what I imagine the council in heaven to be. Many beliefs and ideas being shared. We have to have the power to discern. I don’t take pleasure in slapping down others when their opinions go astray. Rather I love the counsel of Pres Hinkley to learn from the good of others. I truly learned much good from Brother Stroud, but he takes no ownership of my testimony.

Rand
captain of 1,000
Posts: 2472

Re: Mike Stroud Reeled in by the church

Post by Rand »

I AM wrote: January 6th, 2019, 8:41 pm

more like - he was hitting a little too close to home by bring out the truth of really where the church is - in apostasy.

Referring to our church and the sad condition we are in,
Isaiah begins his book speaking to us,
Ephraim, or the church today.

Isaiah 1:2-5
Description of modern Ephraim
(addressing our church he calls Israel)

2 Hear, O heavens! Give heed, O earth!
Jehovah has spoken:I have reared sons,
brought them up,but they have revolted against me.
3 The ox knows its owner,the donkey its master’s stall,
but Israel does not know;my people are insensible.
4 Alas, a nation astray,a people weighed down by sin,
the offspring of wrongdoers,perverse children:
they have forsaken Jehovah,they have spurned
the Holy One of Israel,they have lapsed into APOSTASY.
Who ascribes Isaiah's writing to the modern Church?
Isaiah specifically says he is referring to Judah.
1 The vision of Isaiah the son of Amoz, which he saw concerning Judah and Jerusalem in the days of Uzziah, Jotham, Ahaz, and Hezekiah, kings of Judah."
Your saying it applies to the modern LDS Church may be only your opinion, not fact, as you assert it to be. Personally, I don't think you are right in your application of it.
We can all repent and be better. Not saying the whole church is as righteous as it needs to be. But it seems to me you are saying you are righteous and the brethren and the body of the church are off base.

User avatar
John Tavner
captain of 1,000
Posts: 4154

Re: Mike Stroud Reeled in by the church

Post by John Tavner »

Rand wrote: January 8th, 2019, 3:13 pm
I AM wrote: January 6th, 2019, 8:41 pm

more like - he was hitting a little too close to home by bring out the truth of really where the church is - in apostasy.

Referring to our church and the sad condition we are in,
Isaiah begins his book speaking to us,
Ephraim, or the church today.

Isaiah 1:2-5
Description of modern Ephraim
(addressing our church he calls Israel)

2 Hear, O heavens! Give heed, O earth!
Jehovah has spoken:I have reared sons,
brought them up,but they have revolted against me.
3 The ox knows its owner,the donkey its master’s stall,
but Israel does not know;my people are insensible.
4 Alas, a nation astray,a people weighed down by sin,
the offspring of wrongdoers,perverse children:
they have forsaken Jehovah,they have spurned
the Holy One of Israel,they have lapsed into APOSTASY.
Who ascribes Isaiah's writing to the modern Church?
Isaiah specifically says he is referring to Judah.
1 The vision of Isaiah the son of Amoz, which he saw concerning Judah and Jerusalem in the days of Uzziah, Jotham, Ahaz, and Hezekiah, kings of Judah."
Your saying it applies to the modern LDS Church may be only your opinion, not fact, as you assert it to be. Personally, I don't think you are right in your application of it.
We can all repent and be better. Not saying the whole church is as righteous as it needs to be. But it seems to me you are saying you are righteous and the brethren and the body of the church are off base.
I think Jesus did in 3 Neph 23

1 And now, behold, I say unto you, that ye ought to search these things. Yea, a commandment I give unto you that ye search these things diligently; for great are the words of Isaiah.

2 For surely he spake as touching all things concerning my people which are of the house of Israel; therefore it must needs be that he must speak also to the Gentiles.

3 And all things that he spake have been and shall be, even according to the words which he spake.

4 Therefore give heed to my words; write the things which I have told you; and according to the time and the will of the Father they shall go forth unto the Gentiles.

5 And whosoever will hearken unto my words and repenteth and is baptized, the same shall be saved. Search the prophets, for many there be that testify of these things....
Chapter 22 is talking about the last days and how His words apply to us.

drtanner
captain of 1,000
Posts: 1850

Re: Mike Stroud Reeled in by the church

Post by drtanner »

John Tavner wrote: January 8th, 2019, 5:23 pm
Rand wrote: January 8th, 2019, 3:13 pm
I AM wrote: January 6th, 2019, 8:41 pm

more like - he was hitting a little too close to home by bring out the truth of really where the church is - in apostasy.

Referring to our church and the sad condition we are in,
Isaiah begins his book speaking to us,
Ephraim, or the church today.

Isaiah 1:2-5
Description of modern Ephraim
(addressing our church he calls Israel)

2 Hear, O heavens! Give heed, O earth!
Jehovah has spoken:I have reared sons,
brought them up,but they have revolted against me.
3 The ox knows its owner,the donkey its master’s stall,
but Israel does not know;my people are insensible.
4 Alas, a nation astray,a people weighed down by sin,
the offspring of wrongdoers,perverse children:
they have forsaken Jehovah,they have spurned
the Holy One of Israel,they have lapsed into APOSTASY.
Who ascribes Isaiah's writing to the modern Church?
Isaiah specifically says he is referring to Judah.
1 The vision of Isaiah the son of Amoz, which he saw concerning Judah and Jerusalem in the days of Uzziah, Jotham, Ahaz, and Hezekiah, kings of Judah."
Your saying it applies to the modern LDS Church may be only your opinion, not fact, as you assert it to be. Personally, I don't think you are right in your application of it.
We can all repent and be better. Not saying the whole church is as righteous as it needs to be. But it seems to me you are saying you are righteous and the brethren and the body of the church are off base.
I think Jesus did in 3 Neph 23

1 And now, behold, I say unto you, that ye ought to search these things. Yea, a commandment I give unto you that ye search these things diligently; for great are the words of Isaiah.

2 For surely he spake as touching all things concerning my people which are of the house of Israel; therefore it must needs be that he must speak also to the Gentiles.

3 And all things that he spake have been and shall be, even according to the words which he spake.

4 Therefore give heed to my words; write the things which I have told you; and according to the time and the will of the Father they shall go forth unto the Gentiles.

5 And whosoever will hearken unto my words and repenteth and is baptized, the same shall be saved. Search the prophets, for many there be that testify of these things....
Chapter 22 is talking about the last days and how His words apply to us.
The ambiguity is in the interpretation of gentile and how much and what is ascribed to the current church members, leaders, or generalized to the people of this country. That seems to be the crux of the issues with so many on this forum.

Rand
captain of 1,000
Posts: 2472

Re: Mike Stroud Reeled in by the church

Post by Rand »

drtanner wrote: January 8th, 2019, 5:51 pm
John Tavner wrote: January 8th, 2019, 5:23 pm
Rand wrote: January 8th, 2019, 3:13 pm
I AM wrote: January 6th, 2019, 8:41 pm

more like - he was hitting a little too close to home by bring out the truth of really where the church is - in apostasy.

Referring to our church and the sad condition we are in,
Isaiah begins his book speaking to us,
Ephraim, or the church today.

Isaiah 1:2-5
Description of modern Ephraim
(addressing our church he calls Israel)

2 Hear, O heavens! Give heed, O earth!
Jehovah has spoken:I have reared sons,
brought them up,but they have revolted against me.
3 The ox knows its owner,the donkey its master’s stall,
but Israel does not know;my people are insensible.
4 Alas, a nation astray,a people weighed down by sin,
the offspring of wrongdoers,perverse children:
they have forsaken Jehovah,they have spurned
the Holy One of Israel,they have lapsed into APOSTASY.
Who ascribes Isaiah's writing to the modern Church?
Isaiah specifically says he is referring to Judah.
1 The vision of Isaiah the son of Amoz, which he saw concerning Judah and Jerusalem in the days of Uzziah, Jotham, Ahaz, and Hezekiah, kings of Judah."
Your saying it applies to the modern LDS Church may be only your opinion, not fact, as you assert it to be. Personally, I don't think you are right in your application of it.
We can all repent and be better. Not saying the whole church is as righteous as it needs to be. But it seems to me you are saying you are righteous and the brethren and the body of the church are off base.
I think Jesus did in 3 Neph 23

1 And now, behold, I say unto you, that ye ought to search these things. Yea, a commandment I give unto you that ye search these things diligently; for great are the words of Isaiah.

2 For surely he spake as touching all things concerning my people which are of the house of Israel; therefore it must needs be that he must speak also to the Gentiles.

3 And all things that he spake have been and shall be, even according to the words which he spake.

4 Therefore give heed to my words; write the things which I have told you; and according to the time and the will of the Father they shall go forth unto the Gentiles.

5 And whosoever will hearken unto my words and repenteth and is baptized, the same shall be saved. Search the prophets, for many there be that testify of these things....
Chapter 22 is talking about the last days and how His words apply to us.
The ambiguity is in the interpretation of gentile and how much and what is ascribed to the current church members, leaders, or generalized to the people of this country. That seems to be the crux of the issues with so many on this forum.
Agreed. It serves an apparent agenda to isolate the interpretation to the current church organization, rather than the country as a whole etc. Seems like an agenda serving interpretation.

I AM
captain of 1,000
Posts: 2456

Re: Mike Stroud Reeled in by the church

Post by I AM »

Rand wrote: January 8th, 2019, 3:13 pm
I AM wrote: January 6th, 2019, 8:41 pm

more like - he was hitting a little too close to home by bring out the truth of really where the church is - in apostasy.

Referring to our church and the sad condition we are in,
Isaiah begins his book speaking to us,
Ephraim, or the church today.

Isaiah 1:2-5
Description of modern Ephraim
(addressing our church he calls Israel)

2 Hear, O heavens! Give heed, O earth!
Jehovah has spoken:I have reared sons,
brought them up,but they have revolted against me.
3 The ox knows its owner,the donkey its master’s stall,
but Israel does not know;my people are insensible.
4 Alas, a nation astray,a people weighed down by sin,
the offspring of wrongdoers,perverse children:
they have forsaken Jehovah,they have spurned
the Holy One of Israel,they have lapsed into APOSTASY.
Who ascribes Isaiah's writing to the modern Church?
Isaiah specifically says he is referring to Judah.
1 The vision of Isaiah the son of Amoz, which he saw concerning Judah and Jerusalem in the days of Uzziah, Jotham, Ahaz, and Hezekiah, kings of Judah."
Your saying it applies to the modern LDS Church may be only your opinion, not fact, as you assert it to be. Personally, I don't think you are right in your application of it.
We can all repent and be better. Not saying the whole church is as righteous as it needs to be. But it seems to me you are saying you are righteous and the brethren and the body of the church are off base.
--------------------

I am saying I am righteous ?
How does quoting Isaiah say that I am righteous ?
It's what Isaiah' is saying, not me.
And YES, Isaiah, along with the words of Jesus Christ and prophets in the Book of Mormon,
not only say that the church is off base, but in apostasy.
I could quote pages of scriptures (which I have already done in this forum) showing this.
Look up some of my posts and comments.
The first 3 chapters of Isaiah bring out the major sins of the people and of the church.

Isaiah has now been unsealed and brought
to light by the Lord for our understanding in these last days.

Isaiah 44:7
7 "Who predicts what happens as do I, and is the equal of me in
appointing a people from of old as types, foretelling things to come?

Isaiah uses what are called types from the past to show the future.
What has happened before, will happen again.
ALL THE PROPHECIES OF ISAIAH PERTAIN TO US TODAY
All prophecies in Isaiah are prophecies of the last days.
http://www.isaiahexplained.com/

Here is one you might want to read taking about the church - "the drunkards of Ephraim! "

Isaiah 28
http://www.isaiahexplained.com/28#commentary

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Did you realize that in the 29th chapter of Isaiah he describes the coming forth
of the original plates of the Book of Mormon and the attitude
of the people against it.

taken from: LDS Seminary Student Study Guide

"Isaiah 29 is one place in the Bible where the Book of Mormon is referred to, even though it is not mentioned by name.
As you read this chapter, look for prophecies of the coming forth of the Book of Mormon and the impact this book will have on the world."

Now if the 29th Chapter of Isaiah refers to our people and nation,
then it is very feasible that the 28th chapter may also refer to us.
If you want a big wake up call please read it !
If you study this 28th chapter of Isaiah
it will reveal that every word applies to our church in these days
and to no other people.
Isaiah cites that this people would be given "precept upon precept;
precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little and there a little."
These identical words, were used by the Prophet Joseph Smith among his closing instructions to the latter day saints, warning us to go forward not backward. D.C.128:21-22 ; 2Nephi 28:30

Isaiah 28:13 "But the word of the Lord was unto them
precept upon precept, precept upon precept;
line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little;
that they might go, and fall backward, and be broken,
and snared, and taken."

We are still satisfied with the ABC portions of the gospel.
We will not accept the meat portions of the gospel.

Isaiah 28:
9 Whom shall he give instruction?
Whom shall he enlighten with revelation?
Weanlings weaned from milk,those just taken from the breast?
10 For it is but line upon line, line upon line,precept upon precept,
precept upon precept;a trifle here, a trifle there.

Rand
captain of 1,000
Posts: 2472

Re: Mike Stroud Reeled in by the church

Post by Rand »

I AM wrote: January 8th, 2019, 7:43 pm
Rand wrote: January 8th, 2019, 3:13 pm
I AM wrote: January 6th, 2019, 8:41 pm

more like - he was hitting a little too close to home by bring out the truth of really where the church is - in apostasy.

Referring to our church and the sad condition we are in,
Isaiah begins his book speaking to us,
Ephraim, or the church today.

Isaiah 1:2-5
Description of modern Ephraim
(addressing our church he calls Israel)

2 Hear, O heavens! Give heed, O earth!
Jehovah has spoken:I have reared sons,
brought them up,but they have revolted against me.
3 The ox knows its owner,the donkey its master’s stall,
but Israel does not know;my people are insensible.
4 Alas, a nation astray,a people weighed down by sin,
the offspring of wrongdoers,perverse children:
they have forsaken Jehovah,they have spurned
the Holy One of Israel,they have lapsed into APOSTASY.
Who ascribes Isaiah's writing to the modern Church?
Isaiah specifically says he is referring to Judah.
1 The vision of Isaiah the son of Amoz, which he saw concerning Judah and Jerusalem in the days of Uzziah, Jotham, Ahaz, and Hezekiah, kings of Judah."
Your saying it applies to the modern LDS Church may be only your opinion, not fact, as you assert it to be. Personally, I don't think you are right in your application of it.
We can all repent and be better. Not saying the whole church is as righteous as it needs to be. But it seems to me you are saying you are righteous and the brethren and the body of the church are off base.
--------------------

I am saying I am righteous ?
How does quoting Isaiah say that I am righteous ?
It's what Isaiah' is saying, not me.
And YES, Isaiah, along with the words of Jesus Christ and prophets in the Book of Mormon,
not only say that the church is off base, but in apostasy.
I could quote pages of scriptures (which I have already done in this forum) showing this.
Look up some of my posts and comments.
The first 3 chapters of Isaiah bring out the major sins of the people and of the church.

Isaiah has now been unsealed and brought
to light by the Lord for our understanding in these last days.

Isaiah 44:7
7 "Who predicts what happens as do I, and is the equal of me in
appointing a people from of old as types, foretelling things to come?

Isaiah uses what are called types from the past to show the future.
What has happened before, will happen again.
ALL THE PROPHECIES OF ISAIAH PERTAIN TO US TODAY
All prophecies in Isaiah are prophecies of the last days.
http://www.isaiahexplained.com/

Here is one you might want to read taking about the church - "the drunkards of Ephraim! "

Isaiah 28
http://www.isaiahexplained.com/28#commentary

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Did you realize that in the 29th chapter of Isaiah he describes the coming forth
of the original plates of the Book of Mormon and the attitude
of the people against it.

taken from: LDS Seminary Student Study Guide

"Isaiah 29 is one place in the Bible where the Book of Mormon is referred to, even though it is not mentioned by name.
As you read this chapter, look for prophecies of the coming forth of the Book of Mormon and the impact this book will have on the world."

Now if the 29th Chapter of Isaiah refers to our people and nation,
then it is very feasible that the 28th chapter may also refer to us.
If you want a big wake up call please read it !
If you study this 28th chapter of Isaiah
it will reveal that every word applies to our church in these days
and to no other people.
Isaiah cites that this people would be given "precept upon precept;
precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little and there a little."
These identical words, were used by the Prophet Joseph Smith among his closing instructions to the latter day saints, warning us to go forward not backward. D.C.128:21-22 ; 2Nephi 28:30

Isaiah 28:13 "But the word of the Lord was unto them
precept upon precept, precept upon precept;
line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little;
that they might go, and fall backward, and be broken,
and snared, and taken."

We are still satisfied with the ABC portions of the gospel.
We will not accept the meat portions of the gospel.

Isaiah 28:
9 Whom shall he give instruction?
Whom shall he enlighten with revelation?
Weanlings weaned from milk,those just taken from the breast?
10 For it is but line upon line, line upon line,precept upon precept,
precept upon precept;a trifle here, a trifle there.
To me, you quote Isaiah according to your own interpretation that seems to condemn almost everyone else. So, you are setting yourself up as better than everyone else, or almost everyone else.
I was just reading in TPJS and read this:
"Do Not Betray the Brethren
O ye Twelve! and all Saints! profit by this important Key—that in all your trials, troubles, temptations, afflictions, bonds, imprisonments and death, see to it, that you do not betray heaven; that you do not betray Jesus Christ; that you do not betray the brethren; that you do not betray the revelations of God, whether in the Bible, Book of Mormon, or Doctrine and Covenants, or any other that ever was or ever will be given and revealed unto man in this world or that which is to come. Yea, in all your kicking and flounderings, see to it that you do not this thing, lest innocent blood be found upon your skirts, and you go down to hell. All other sins are not to be compared to sinning against the Holy Ghost, and proving a traitor to the brethren.

A Key to Mysteries
I will give you one of the Keys of the mysteries of the Kingdom. It is an eternal principle, that has existed with God from all eternity: That man who rises up to condemn others, finding fault with the Church, saying that they are out of the way, while he himself is righteous, then know assuredly, that that man is in the high road to apostasy; and if he does not repent, will apostatize, as God lives. The principle is as correct as the one that Jesus put forth in saying that he who seeketh a sign is an adulterous person; and that principle is eternal, undeviating, and firm as the pillars of heaven; for whenever you see a man seeking after a sign, you may set it down that he is an adulterous man."

Uhm, it sounds to me like you are doing just this. Maybe I am wrong and misunderstand you. If that is so, I apologize. But, I don't think I do.

I AM
captain of 1,000
Posts: 2456

Re: Mike Stroud Reeled in by the church

Post by I AM »

Rand wrote: January 8th, 2019, 9:06 pm
I AM wrote: January 8th, 2019, 7:43 pm
Rand wrote: January 8th, 2019, 3:13 pm
I AM wrote: January 6th, 2019, 8:41 pm

more like - he was hitting a little too close to home by bring out the truth of really where the church is - in apostasy.

Referring to our church and the sad condition we are in,
Isaiah begins his book speaking to us,
Ephraim, or the church today.

Isaiah 1:2-5
Description of modern Ephraim
(addressing our church he calls Israel)

2 Hear, O heavens! Give heed, O earth!
Jehovah has spoken:I have reared sons,
brought them up,but they have revolted against me.
3 The ox knows its owner,the donkey its master’s stall,
but Israel does not know;my people are insensible.
4 Alas, a nation astray,a people weighed down by sin,
the offspring of wrongdoers,perverse children:
they have forsaken Jehovah,they have spurned
the Holy One of Israel,they have lapsed into APOSTASY.
Who ascribes Isaiah's writing to the modern Church?
Isaiah specifically says he is referring to Judah.
1 The vision of Isaiah the son of Amoz, which he saw concerning Judah and Jerusalem in the days of Uzziah, Jotham, Ahaz, and Hezekiah, kings of Judah."
Your saying it applies to the modern LDS Church may be only your opinion, not fact, as you assert it to be. Personally, I don't think you are right in your application of it.
We can all repent and be better. Not saying the whole church is as righteous as it needs to be. But it seems to me you are saying you are righteous and the brethren and the body of the church are off base.
--------------------

I am saying I am righteous ?
How does quoting Isaiah say that I am righteous ?
It's what Isaiah' is saying, not me.
And YES, Isaiah, along with the words of Jesus Christ and prophets in the Book of Mormon,
not only say that the church is off base, but in apostasy.
I could quote pages of scriptures (which I have already done in this forum) showing this.
Look up some of my posts and comments.
The first 3 chapters of Isaiah bring out the major sins of the people and of the church.

Isaiah has now been unsealed and brought
to light by the Lord for our understanding in these last days.

Isaiah 44:7
7 "Who predicts what happens as do I, and is the equal of me in
appointing a people from of old as types, foretelling things to come?

Isaiah uses what are called types from the past to show the future.
What has happened before, will happen again.
ALL THE PROPHECIES OF ISAIAH PERTAIN TO US TODAY
All prophecies in Isaiah are prophecies of the last days.
http://www.isaiahexplained.com/

Here is one you might want to read taking about the church - "the drunkards of Ephraim! "

Isaiah 28
http://www.isaiahexplained.com/28#commentary

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Did you realize that in the 29th chapter of Isaiah he describes the coming forth
of the original plates of the Book of Mormon and the attitude
of the people against it.

taken from: LDS Seminary Student Study Guide

"Isaiah 29 is one place in the Bible where the Book of Mormon is referred to, even though it is not mentioned by name.
As you read this chapter, look for prophecies of the coming forth of the Book of Mormon and the impact this book will have on the world."

Now if the 29th Chapter of Isaiah refers to our people and nation,
then it is very feasible that the 28th chapter may also refer to us.
If you want a big wake up call please read it !
If you study this 28th chapter of Isaiah
it will reveal that every word applies to our church in these days
and to no other people.
Isaiah cites that this people would be given "precept upon precept;
precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little and there a little."
These identical words, were used by the Prophet Joseph Smith among his closing instructions to the latter day saints, warning us to go forward not backward. D.C.128:21-22 ; 2Nephi 28:30

Isaiah 28:13 "But the word of the Lord was unto them
precept upon precept, precept upon precept;
line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little;
that they might go, and fall backward, and be broken,
and snared, and taken."

We are still satisfied with the ABC portions of the gospel.
We will not accept the meat portions of the gospel.

Isaiah 28:
9 Whom shall he give instruction?
Whom shall he enlighten with revelation?
Weanlings weaned from milk,those just taken from the breast?
10 For it is but line upon line, line upon line,precept upon precept,
precept upon precept;a trifle here, a trifle there.
To me, you quote Isaiah according to your own interpretation that seems to condemn almost everyone else. So, you are setting yourself up as better than everyone else, or almost everyone else.
I was just reading in TPJS and read this:
"Do Not Betray the Brethren
O ye Twelve! and all Saints! profit by this important Key—that in all your trials, troubles, temptations, afflictions, bonds, imprisonments and death, see to it, that you do not betray heaven; that you do not betray Jesus Christ; that you do not betray the brethren; that you do not betray the revelations of God, whether in the Bible, Book of Mormon, or Doctrine and Covenants, or any other that ever was or ever will be given and revealed unto man in this world or that which is to come. Yea, in all your kicking and flounderings, see to it that you do not this thing, lest innocent blood be found upon your skirts, and you go down to hell. All other sins are not to be compared to sinning against the Holy Ghost, and proving a traitor to the brethren.

A Key to Mysteries
I will give you one of the Keys of the mysteries of the Kingdom. It is an eternal principle, that has existed with God from all eternity: That man who rises up to condemn others, finding fault with the Church, saying that they are out of the way, while he himself is righteous, then know assuredly, that that man is in the high road to apostasy; and if he does not repent, will apostatize, as God lives. The principle is as correct as the one that Jesus put forth in saying that he who seeketh a sign is an adulterous person; and that principle is eternal, undeviating, and firm as the pillars of heaven; for whenever you see a man seeking after a sign, you may set it down that he is an adulterous man."

Uhm, it sounds to me like you are doing just this. Maybe I am wrong and misunderstand you. If that is so, I apologize. But, I don't think I do.
----------------------------------------------------
Again, you better study the words of Isaiah my friend
http://www.isaiahexplained.com/
My post in this forum viewtopic.php?f=31&t=31850
and do as Jesus commanded us to do,
because "all is NOT well in Zion " as you think it is.

2 Nephi 28:21,24,25
21 And others will he pacify,
and lull them away into carnal security,
that they will say: All is well in Zion;
yea, Zion prospereth, all is well—
and thus the devil cheateth their souls,
and leadeth them away carefully down to hell.
24 Therefore, wo be unto him that is at ease in Zion!
25 Wo be unto him that crieth: All is well!

WHY DID THE LORD HIMSELF SAY
"for great are the words of Isaiah" and
gave us a commandment that we search them diligently.
Because they are speaking about us - the church and it's leaders.

3 Nephi 23:1- 4
1 "And now, behold, I say unto you,
that ye ought to search these things.
Yea, a commandment I give unto
you that ye search these things diligently;
for great are the words of Isaiah."

2 "For surely he spake as touching all things
concerning my people which are of the house of Israel;
therefore it must needs be that he must speak
also to the Gentiles."

3 "And all things that he spake (have been and shall be),
even according to the words which he spake."

4 "Therefore give heed to my words;
write the things which I have told you;
and according to the time and the will
of the Father they shall go forth unto the Gentiles."

3 Nephi 20:11
11 "Ye remember that I spake unto you,
and said that when the words of Isaiah
should be fulfilled—behold they are written,
ye have them before you, therefore search them-"

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

If Jesus himself has said -

3 Nephi 23:1- 4
1 "And now, behold, I say unto you,
that ye ought to search these things.
Yea, a commandment I give unto
you that ye search these things diligently;
for great are the words of Isaiah
."


Why does our prophet and church leaders never talk about Isaiah or quote him ?
Could it be that they don't understand him ? and if they don't understand him, do they really have the spirit of prophecy ?

"Wherefore, hearken, O my people, which are of the house of Israel, and give ear unto my words; for because the words of Isaiah are not plain unto you,
nevertheless they are plain unto all those that are filled with the spirit of prophecy "
(2 Nephi 25:4) in part

quote

"As we watch General Conference we should look for the spirit of prophecy." not just listen to nice talks

"The scriptures warn us that in the last days there will be prophets who do not prophesy and seers who do not see (Isaiah 30:10). Jesus also warned that there would be false prophets and an abundance of men teaching their own precepts to get gain, so that even the very elect will be deceived (2 Nephi 26:29; JS Matthew 1:22).

As Latter-day Saints we must learn what a true prophet is and we must learn to discern between true and false prophets lest we also be deceived.

The scriptures provide a standard by which we can all judge.
Simply put, a prophet must have the spirit of prophecy in order to be a true prophet. This is the sign.

As we watch General Conference we should look for the spirit of prophecy. We should measure carefully what is being said. We should pray that those who we sustain as prophets will prophesy and speak prophetically because when prophets and seers, prophesy and see, they become a great benefit to their fellow man (Mosiah 8:18). This is the means whereby we can receive salvation.
If men who are called prophets do not have the spirit of prophecy we can know they are false prophets.
Nephi gives us an important bar by which we can measure:

Wherefore, hearken, O my people, which are of the house of Israel, and give ear unto my words; for because the words of Isaiah are not plain unto you, nevertheless they are plain unto all those that are filled with the spirit of prophecy (2 Nephi 25:4).

All prophets will understand the words of Isaiah.
They will also share the testimony of the Savior and of Nephi and others that the words of Isaiah are great!

When’s the last time you heard an LDS prophet give a talk on the words of Isaiah in General Conference?
When Jesus came to the Nephites, He gave them the “commandment to search these things diligently; for great are the words of Isaiah.”
Do the servants of the Lord today emphasize this same commandment?

Today’s prophets write books such as: Counseling With Our Councils,
The Christmas Train, A Future As Bright As Your Faith, To The Rescue, Forget Me Not, and 21 Principles.

The above may be excellent topics,
but why do today’s LDS prophets not speak or write of Isaiah?
Why do they not rejoice in his words?
Why do they not explain what his words mean?
If these words are so great and so relevant to us in our day, why are the so called prophets
not using their “spirit of prophecy” in a way that would render Isaiah’s vital words easier to understand?

Is it possible that these prophets do not understand the words of Isaiah?
If so, can they be true prophets?
Jesus said “ALL who have the spirit of prophecy” will easily understand Isaiah’s words.
They will comprehend them in plainness. If these prophets rely upon trained scholars to understand Isaiah,
would this be evidence that such men are not true prophets?
I leave that for you to judge."

Rand
captain of 1,000
Posts: 2472

Re: Mike Stroud Reeled in by the church

Post by Rand »

I AM wrote: January 8th, 2019, 9:21 pm
Rand wrote: January 8th, 2019, 9:06 pm
I AM wrote: January 8th, 2019, 7:43 pm
Rand wrote: January 8th, 2019, 3:13 pm
Who ascribes Isaiah's writing to the modern Church?
Isaiah specifically says he is referring to Judah.
1 The vision of Isaiah the son of Amoz, which he saw concerning Judah and Jerusalem in the days of Uzziah, Jotham, Ahaz, and Hezekiah, kings of Judah."
Your saying it applies to the modern LDS Church may be only your opinion, not fact, as you assert it to be. Personally, I don't think you are right in your application of it.
We can all repent and be better. Not saying the whole church is as righteous as it needs to be. But it seems to me you are saying you are righteous and the brethren and the body of the church are off base.
--------------------

I am saying I am righteous ?
How does quoting Isaiah say that I am righteous ?
It's what Isaiah' is saying, not me.
And YES, Isaiah, along with the words of Jesus Christ and prophets in the Book of Mormon,
not only say that the church is off base, but in apostasy.
I could quote pages of scriptures (which I have already done in this forum) showing this.
Look up some of my posts and comments.
The first 3 chapters of Isaiah bring out the major sins of the people and of the church.

Isaiah has now been unsealed and brought
to light by the Lord for our understanding in these last days.

Isaiah 44:7
7 "Who predicts what happens as do I, and is the equal of me in
appointing a people from of old as types, foretelling things to come?

Isaiah uses what are called types from the past to show the future.
What has happened before, will happen again.
ALL THE PROPHECIES OF ISAIAH PERTAIN TO US TODAY
All prophecies in Isaiah are prophecies of the last days.
http://www.isaiahexplained.com/

Here is one you might want to read taking about the church - "the drunkards of Ephraim! "

Isaiah 28
http://www.isaiahexplained.com/28#commentary

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Did you realize that in the 29th chapter of Isaiah he describes the coming forth
of the original plates of the Book of Mormon and the attitude
of the people against it.

taken from: LDS Seminary Student Study Guide

"Isaiah 29 is one place in the Bible where the Book of Mormon is referred to, even though it is not mentioned by name.
As you read this chapter, look for prophecies of the coming forth of the Book of Mormon and the impact this book will have on the world."

Now if the 29th Chapter of Isaiah refers to our people and nation,
then it is very feasible that the 28th chapter may also refer to us.
If you want a big wake up call please read it !
If you study this 28th chapter of Isaiah
it will reveal that every word applies to our church in these days
and to no other people.
Isaiah cites that this people would be given "precept upon precept;
precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little and there a little."
These identical words, were used by the Prophet Joseph Smith among his closing instructions to the latter day saints, warning us to go forward not backward. D.C.128:21-22 ; 2Nephi 28:30

Isaiah 28:13 "But the word of the Lord was unto them
precept upon precept, precept upon precept;
line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little;
that they might go, and fall backward, and be broken,
and snared, and taken."

We are still satisfied with the ABC portions of the gospel.
We will not accept the meat portions of the gospel.

Isaiah 28:
9 Whom shall he give instruction?
Whom shall he enlighten with revelation?
Weanlings weaned from milk,those just taken from the breast?
10 For it is but line upon line, line upon line,precept upon precept,
precept upon precept;a trifle here, a trifle there.
To me, you quote Isaiah according to your own interpretation that seems to condemn almost everyone else. So, you are setting yourself up as better than everyone else, or almost everyone else.
I was just reading in TPJS and read this:
"Do Not Betray the Brethren
O ye Twelve! and all Saints! profit by this important Key—that in all your trials, troubles, temptations, afflictions, bonds, imprisonments and death, see to it, that you do not betray heaven; that you do not betray Jesus Christ; that you do not betray the brethren; that you do not betray the revelations of God, whether in the Bible, Book of Mormon, or Doctrine and Covenants, or any other that ever was or ever will be given and revealed unto man in this world or that which is to come. Yea, in all your kicking and flounderings, see to it that you do not this thing, lest innocent blood be found upon your skirts, and you go down to hell. All other sins are not to be compared to sinning against the Holy Ghost, and proving a traitor to the brethren.

A Key to Mysteries
I will give you one of the Keys of the mysteries of the Kingdom. It is an eternal principle, that has existed with God from all eternity: That man who rises up to condemn others, finding fault with the Church, saying that they are out of the way, while he himself is righteous, then know assuredly, that that man is in the high road to apostasy; and if he does not repent, will apostatize, as God lives. The principle is as correct as the one that Jesus put forth in saying that he who seeketh a sign is an adulterous person; and that principle is eternal, undeviating, and firm as the pillars of heaven; for whenever you see a man seeking after a sign, you may set it down that he is an adulterous man."

Uhm, it sounds to me like you are doing just this. Maybe I am wrong and misunderstand you. If that is so, I apologize. But, I don't think I do.
----------------------------------------------------
Again, you better study the words of Isaiah my friend
http://www.isaiahexplained.com/
My post in this forum viewtopic.php?f=31&t=31850
and do as Jesus commanded us to do,
because "all is NOT well in Zion " as you think it is.
Did I say I think all is well in Zion? No. What is Zion in this case? It is the whole of North and South America, as Joseph indicated it was. All is not well in Zion.
Zion can also be identified as the pure in heart. Well, I think things are well in that application of Zion.

Zion is not the body of the Church, at least in this application. We are to establish Zion. But we have not yet done that.

I have studied Isaiah, but I do not agree with your interpretations, at least the ones I see you express, no matter how much you have studied Isaiah.

User avatar
Arenera
captain of 1,000
Posts: 2712

Re: Mike Stroud Reeled in by the church

Post by Arenera »

investigator wrote: November 8th, 2017, 3:58 pm https://www.podomatic.com/podcasts/mstr ... 2_55-08_00

Mike Stroud has been counseled and talked to by the church, has admitted a list of inappropriate teachings, and will willfully submit to the church. He will cease his podcasts and take them off the internet. The link is his last podcast, all of which will be taken down in a few days.
It appears Mike Stroud has just been excommunicated. He started a podcast on the Book of Mormon, with additional comments on coming to Christ. It seems like the comments on coming to Christ is the issue.

User avatar
inho
captain of 1,000
Posts: 3286
Location: in a galaxy far, far away

Re: Mike Stroud Reeled in by the church

Post by inho »

Arenera wrote: February 14th, 2019, 11:08 am It appears Mike Stroud has just been excommunicated. He started a podcast on the Book of Mormon, with additional comments on coming to Christ. It seems like the comments on coming to Christ is the issue.
That's what he tells: https://www.podomatic.com/podcasts/mstr ... 6_24-08_00. I haven't listen to his new podcasts, so I don't know how he has erred. Now I feel even less inclined to listen to them.

User avatar
Arenera
captain of 1,000
Posts: 2712

Re: Mike Stroud Reeled in by the church

Post by Arenera »

inho wrote: February 14th, 2019, 11:26 am
Arenera wrote: February 14th, 2019, 11:08 am It appears Mike Stroud has just been excommunicated. He started a podcast on the Book of Mormon, with additional comments on coming to Christ. It seems like the comments on coming to Christ is the issue.
That's what he tells: https://www.podomatic.com/podcasts/mstr ... 6_24-08_00. I haven't listen to his new podcasts, so I don't know how he has erred. Now I feel even less inclined to listen to them.
Mike is positive on the Church, leaders, and President Nelson. Maybe coming to Christ is intended to be a personal journey.

Post Reply