Wow! Who Could Have Seen THIS Coming? Self-driving shuttle crashes in Las Vegas hours after launch

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Michelle
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Wow! Who Could Have Seen THIS Coming? Self-driving shuttle crashes in Las Vegas hours after launch

Post by Michelle »

I am not a fan of sarcasm usually, but this story deserves it! :lol:

http://www.foxnews.com/tech/2017/11/08/ ... aunch.html
A driverless shuttle in Las Vegas crashed Wednesday after it was launched only hours earlier.

The shuttle crashed just before noon not far from the Las Vegas Strip, less than two hours after officials held an unveiling ceremony to promote the vehicle.

Dozens of people had lined up to board the shuttle, but no one was injured in the accident, which saw the bus collide with a semi-truck, KSNV reported.

The oval-shaped shuttle is the first of its kind in the U.S. as a pilot project geared toward the public. It can hold up to 12 passengers and has an attendant and computer monitor, but doesn’t have a steering wheel or brake pedals.

The self-driving bus uses GPS, electronic curb sensors and other technology to travel.

The bus is currently free, according to KSNC. The AAA, which is sponsoring the shuttle, will donate $1 to the Las Vegas Victims Fund for each rider that gets aboard the bus – starting with a $100,000 check.

The self-driving shuttle was reportedly scheduled to drive through downtown Las Vegas during the next year. It remains unclear whether the shuttle will continue operating after its collision.

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captainfearnot
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Re: Wow! Who Could Have Seen THIS Coming? Self-driving shuttle crashes in Las Vegas hours after launch

Post by captainfearnot »

I'm not sure why the sarcasm. Are you saying it should be obvious to everyone that self driving cars are impossible and we shouldn't be pursuing this technology? And this one instance where a self driving vehicle wrecked on its first day proves it?

Michelle
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Re: Wow! Who Could Have Seen THIS Coming? Self-driving shuttle crashes in Las Vegas hours after launch

Post by Michelle »

captainfearnot wrote: November 8th, 2017, 3:33 pm I'm not sure why the sarcasm. Are you saying it should be obvious to everyone that self driving cars are impossible and we shouldn't be pursuing this technology? And this one instance where a self driving vehicle wrecked on its first day proves it?

I'm saying it is a bit ironic. And since my computer can't go very long without errors, I don't expect a self driving car to do much better. I'd prefer to keep my hands on the wheel.

buffalo_girl
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Re: Wow! Who Could Have Seen THIS Coming? Self-driving shuttle crashes in Las Vegas hours after launch

Post by buffalo_girl »

The AAA, which is sponsoring the shuttle, will donate $1 to the Las Vegas Victims Fund for each rider that gets aboard the bus –
After this crash, how many folks are willing to get aboard?

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oneClimbs
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Re: Wow! Who Could Have Seen THIS Coming? Self-driving shuttle crashes in Las Vegas hours after launch

Post by oneClimbs »

I think that will depend if it was just a fender bender or a devastating collision. It’s new technology, there are going to be problems.

Airliners virtually fly themselves and our cars run on computers. Personally I don’t mind the idea of self driving cars, they’d probably do better than people who have their eyes on their phones instead of the road. Plus it would be great to sleep through a road trip.

buffalo_girl
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Re: Wow! Who Could Have Seen THIS Coming? Self-driving shuttle crashes in Las Vegas hours after launch

Post by buffalo_girl »

Well...my husband drives a semi between North Dakota, Montana, Saskatchewan, Manitoba, and Minnesota - mostly on 2-lane - equally between paved & gravel. There can be extreme temperature and weather differences within 100 miles, not to mention the oil field truckers sharing the same paved and dirt roads who are paid 'by the load'.

When the blizzards hit, chains are required.

I've always thought a video game using oil field trucks and grain trucks vying for limited road space - with scores based on safely delivered loads - would be quite engaging.

I'm sorry, flying a jet on autopilot is one thing ; driving in our area is an entirely different dealio.

gardener4life
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Re: Wow! Who Could Have Seen THIS Coming? Self-driving shuttle crashes in Las Vegas hours after launch

Post by gardener4life »

Well you better pray these don't work because if they do millions of people will jobs as drivers of various vehicle types. And that's the same for robot stockers for grocery and retail stores too. It's not a mistake that both are coming out so soon and at the same time. It's another type of putting out the poor. # of professional truckers in the U.S, 3.5 million. # of driving jobs around 8.7 million, the # of retail workers depending on how you look at it, I've seen quoted at roughly 5 million or 15 million.

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Mindfields
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Re: Wow! Who Could Have Seen THIS Coming? Self-driving shuttle crashes in Las Vegas hours after launch

Post by Mindfields »

"Truck making delivery backed into shuttle, which was stopped. Human error causes most traffic collisions and this was no different. Driver of truck was cited. No one hurt except a bruised bumper!"

https://jalopnik.com/a-human-driver-cra ... 1820269207

Onsdag
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Re: Wow! Who Could Have Seen THIS Coming? Self-driving shuttle crashes in Las Vegas hours after launch

Post by Onsdag »

Mindfields wrote: November 9th, 2017, 6:45 am "Truck making delivery backed into shuttle, which was stopped. Human error causes most traffic collisions and this was no different. Driver of truck was cited. No one hurt except a bruised bumper!"

https://jalopnik.com/a-human-driver-cra ... 1820269207
And a human driver could have easily seen the truck backing into them and honked their horn, flashed their lights, or simply moved out of the way. Living in Utah, and seeing how many other drivers drive, there is no way I'd relinquish control of my vehicle over to a computer. Ever.

Spaced_Out
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Re: Wow! Who Could Have Seen THIS Coming? Self-driving shuttle crashes in Las Vegas hours after launch

Post by Spaced_Out »

Simply "teething problems", if all vehicles on the road were operated by computer technology the death and carnage on the road will go to almost zero.

Intoxicated driving, fatigue, speeding the main causes of death on the roads will all be a thing of the past. It will be a good thing except employment will be gone. There is always a resistance to new technology and change. The same thing people say about driver-less vehicles is what people said about cars when the horse was the main means of transport. It is coming, get with it or get left behind.

In Australia this week a woman in the parking lot of school, dropped her water bottle and went to pick it up and accidentally pushed the accelerator and drove into a class room killing 2 children and injuring another three.
Children die after car crashes into southwest Sydney school
http://www.news.com.au/national/nsw-act ... 54ce5b2410

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Elizabeth
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Re: Wow! Who Could Have Seen THIS Coming? Self-driving shuttle crashes in Las Vegas hours after launch

Post by Elizabeth »

I have an automatic car which can drive itself, park, stay in lanes, stop when needed etc. I find it strange, and still prefer my other cars which though automatic still require a driver.

gardener4life
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Re: Wow! Who Could Have Seen THIS Coming? Self-driving shuttle crashes in Las Vegas hours after launch

Post by gardener4life »

Spaced_Out wrote: November 9th, 2017, 1:26 pm Simply "teething problems", if all vehicles on the road were operated by computer technology the death and carnage on the road will go to almost zero.

Intoxicated driving, fatigue, speeding the main causes of death on the roads will all be a thing of the past. It will be a good thing except employment will be gone. There is always a resistance to new technology and change. The same thing people say about driver-less vehicles is what people said about cars when the horse was the main means of transport. It is coming, get with it or get left behind.

In Australia this week a woman in the parking lot of school, dropped her water bottle and went to pick it up and accidentally pushed the accelerator and drove into a class room killing 2 children and injuring another three.
Children die after car crashes into southwest Sydney school
http://www.news.com.au/national/nsw-act ... 54ce5b2410
I think you are missing the point. Jesus said to Love God and Love your neighbor. You can't love your neighbor when you put robots and animals before people. If robot drivers or self driving vehicles are implemented, then millions and millions of people worldwide will be phased out of their jobs and have no means to provide for their families. Teething problems can be said to apply to humans too. I think people forget and justify this because they forget our goal isn't to not have hardship in this life. Our goal is that Earth is like a tent city for us to prepare to return to Heavenly Father. So our goal shouldn't be to not have problems on Earth while embracing the concept of 'no soul shall be lost' type of thinking.

Spaced_Out
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Re: Wow! Who Could Have Seen THIS Coming? Self-driving shuttle crashes in Las Vegas hours after launch

Post by Spaced_Out »

gardener4life wrote: November 9th, 2017, 2:05 pm
I think you are missing the point. Jesus said to Love God and Love your neighbor. You can't love your neighbor when you put robots and animals before people. If robot drivers or self driving vehicles are implemented, then millions and millions of people worldwide will be phased out of their jobs and have no means to provide for their families. Teething problems can be said to apply to humans too. I think people forget and justify this because they forget our goal isn't to not have hardship in this life. Our goal is that Earth is like a tent city for us to prepare to return to Heavenly Father. So our goal shouldn't be to not have problems on Earth while embracing the concept of 'no soul shall be lost' type of thinking.
This goes in line with other thread on the next industrial evolution, the same thing happened with previous industrial revolutions. People are afraid of the technology and the change it brings, it simply can't be stopped in a global world. Trying to create panic over a headline that a driver less car crashed and the technology does not work - that is burying your head in the sand and not dealing with the issue.

I wrote an article back in 2012 on the impact of automation that was published. Yes the situation will accentuate the have and have not's, well established political parties all over the world are loosing support - with automation and job loss being one of the main reasons. Trump and Brexit are all related to the issue... Personal debt across the world is going up exponentially, to try and maintain current standard of living as wages fall and joblessness reaches all time high. The radical left are using the dissatisfaction of the people to create instability and riot that is going to lead to the next civil war.

There is no way to stop the march of technology it is a big smash. Some states raised the minimum wage to help the working poor so in response huge strides have been made in automation of fast food and drinks within months of the minimum wage being raised.... I have no solution to the issue....


Cargo ocean freight liners are also going AI and will cut crew by 90%.
Another article in the news today....
Deutsche Bank CEO Says AI Will Help Him Cut Tens Of Thousands Of Jobs
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-11-0 ... sands-jobs

Image

gardener4life
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Re: Wow! Who Could Have Seen THIS Coming? Self-driving shuttle crashes in Las Vegas hours after launch

Post by gardener4life »

Your words are good but it's not fear. You think you can say that obeying the commandments is fear or following fear? Think about it. Someone just told you the truth and you are saying its trying to create a panic if someone says to put the commandments first. And do you really think the gospel won't win even if it looks like technology will?

There are a lot of problems with your argument. For one, "There is no way to stop the march of technology it is a big smash." You kind of missed the point. "WE" don't fight technology or try to stop it. Heavenly Father will take care of it. That's what trust in him is. We trust that he'll make it so people that keep the commandments can have a future and will. We don't look at the 'world' or its agenda and decide...ahh its inevitable. Let's all give up now.

Spaced_Out
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Re: Wow! Who Could Have Seen THIS Coming? Self-driving shuttle crashes in Las Vegas hours after launch

Post by Spaced_Out »

gardener4life wrote: November 9th, 2017, 9:06 pm Your words are good but it's not fear. You think you can say that obeying the commandments is fear or following fear? Think about it. Someone just told you the truth and you are saying its trying to create a panic if someone says to put the commandments first. And do you really think the gospel won't win even if it looks like technology will?

There are a lot of problems with your argument. For one, "There is no way to stop the march of technology it is a big smash." You kind of missed the point. "WE" don't fight technology or try to stop it. Heavenly Father will take care of it. That's what trust in him is. We trust that he'll make it so people that keep the commandments can have a future and will. We don't look at the 'world' or its agenda and decide...ahh its inevitable. Let's all give up now.
The opening post in the thread is about self driving cars crashing - it was not even the self driving cars fault, then saying the technology won't work.
I'm saying it is a bit ironic. And since my computer can't go very long without errors, I don't expect a self driving car to do much better. I'd prefer to keep my hands on the wheel.
The technology of self driving cars, planes, boats trains, reduces human error and makes people safer. There is nothing wrong or evil with the technology. Thinking it will not happen is denial it is already happening and the rate of automation is accelerating exponentially.

I have no idea what your are talking about -
Someone just told you the truth and you are saying its trying to create a panic if someone says to put the commandments first
what commandment? what truth? Automation is based on true principles of the universe and there is nothing evil about it - it has to be embraced - one cant simply ignore the issue. Technology and the gospel are not at odds......

But when one reads headlines like this in today's news then it is time to panic, and is a smash - people are not preparing properly for the future.
13 Baltimore High Schools Have Zero Students That Are Proficient In Math
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-11-0 ... cient-math

During the millennium we will have even better technology and automation and people can do things that are more meaningful. God will not take away the technology.
Who is saying give up -those that blame technology are the one's giving up it needs to be embraced and one has to re skill.
But I see a big smash coming as people have not prepared themselves for the changes that are now taking place, unemployment is at record levels well above the 1929 great depression it is just that they live on food stamps and gov debt is well above anything ever seen before -there is no way out -catastrophic financial collapse is imminent and there is no way to stop it, just as there is no way to stop automation. But as always one can prepare - food storage, learning, agriculture and animal husbandry, and preparing all needful things.
But the world is wicked and when the economy collapses will result in the prophesied civil war and destruction....The days of tribulations are coming and one cant stop it - but need to repair.

Benjamin_LK
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Re: Wow! Who Could Have Seen THIS Coming? Self-driving shuttle crashes in Las Vegas hours after launch

Post by Benjamin_LK »

Spaced_Out wrote: November 10th, 2017, 2:18 am
gardener4life wrote: November 9th, 2017, 9:06 pm Your words are good but it's not fear. You think you can say that obeying the commandments is fear or following fear? Think about it. Someone just told you the truth and you are saying its trying to create a panic if someone says to put the commandments first. And do you really think the gospel won't win even if it looks like technology will?

There are a lot of problems with your argument. For one, "There is no way to stop the march of technology it is a big smash." You kind of missed the point. "WE" don't fight technology or try to stop it. Heavenly Father will take care of it. That's what trust in him is. We trust that he'll make it so people that keep the commandments can have a future and will. We don't look at the 'world' or its agenda and decide...ahh its inevitable. Let's all give up now.
The opening post in the thread is about self driving cars crashing - it was not even the self driving cars fault, then saying the technology won't work.
I'm saying it is a bit ironic. And since my computer can't go very long without errors, I don't expect a self driving car to do much better. I'd prefer to keep my hands on the wheel.
The technology of self driving cars, planes, boats trains, reduces human error and makes people safer. There is nothing wrong or evil with the technology. Thinking it will not happen is denial it is already happening and the rate of automation is accelerating exponentially.

I have no idea what your are talking about -
Someone just told you the truth and you are saying its trying to create a panic if someone says to put the commandments first
what commandment? what truth? Automation is based on true principles of the universe and there is nothing evil about it - it has to be embraced - one cant simply ignore the issue. Technology and the gospel are not at odds......

But when one reads headlines like this in today's news then it is time to panic, and is a smash - people are not preparing properly for the future.
13 Baltimore High Schools Have Zero Students That Are Proficient In Math
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-11-0 ... cient-math

During the millennium we will have even better technology and automation and people can do things that are more meaningful. God will not take away the technology.
Who is saying give up -those that blame technology are the one's giving up it needs to be embraced and one has to re skill.
But I see a big smash coming as people have not prepared themselves for the changes that are now taking place, unemployment is at record levels well above the 1929 great depression it is just that they live on food stamps and gov debt is well above anything ever seen before -there is no way out -catastrophic financial collapse is imminent and there is no way to stop it, just as there is no way to stop automation. But as always one can prepare - food storage, learning, agriculture and animal husbandry, and preparing all needful things.
But the world is wicked and when the economy collapses will result in the prophesied civil war and destruction....The days of tribulations are coming and one cant stop it - but need to repair.
Technology will become a casualty of civil war. Seriously, it was a casualty in any one of the civil wars I know. Government and rebels alike will destroy valuable infrastructure so that the other side has less to use against them. It's likewise not immediately clear who are on the rebels side. And the rebels hate the idea of fence sitters. Then there's the fact that part of the abomination of desolation is likely to include nuclear weapons. The on board computer systems, as well as the vehicless themselves, are toast, with some exceptions if we still have some primitive ignition systems. Then for the cars that run, people will kill to get an operating vehicle. It will be a true Mad Max world is all I can say. You're right about people not turning out educationally, but what can you expect after generations of absent parenting, oN top of people getting considered useless for labor because they can just hire a machine to do it?

Michelle
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Re: Wow! Who Could Have Seen THIS Coming? Self-driving shuttle crashes in Las Vegas hours after launch

Post by Michelle »

There are a lot of misconceptions about my purpose and original post. I know I used the story of a self driving car, but I have written a lot on this board about my concerns about technology. This was simply presented as anecdotal evidence.

Let me share a few points that may clarify, though I expect some will look at the list and wonder how in the world they are connected to what I am saying. ;)

*You will see that I use the term "technology" loosely to define any sort of progression that weakens mans connection to God and His plan.

1.
Luke 17:1 Then said he unto the disciples, It is impossible but that offences will come: but woe unto him, through whom they come!
I do not believe we will stop technology, I have shared this in other posts regarding the revelations found in the books of Daniel and Revelation. I do not even think it is our job to try and stop technology. I believe that it is Christ who intervenes in the end. I do believe we will have to decide when to abandon technology and choose Zion over Babylon. (Think mark of the beast.)
Modern technology cannot therefore claim to be necessary to plan. We just have to decide if it has a place at all in mortality and what its purpose is.

3. I know I am in the minority here, but I am not dazzled by technology. I believe it is our curse, not our blessing. A man or family that can find a solution to a problem is more like God than a one who uses another's efforts to do the same. Ask yourself a few questions: if technology did go away tomorrow, or was severely damaged: could you survive? Could you provide food, clothing and shelter for yourself and your family? Do you believe that society is better for the technology it has created (some might call it the "workmanship of their own hands")? Are we as a people closer to God? Closer to our family members? Closer to our neighbor? Are we more "one in heart" or less? Has technology helped or hurt these relationships? Are we healthier? If you do see some health benefits from technology, is it the technology or was there revelation given by God previously that had the same beneficial health effects, but because it was ignored, people turned to technology to try and mitigate poor health?

4.Christ did not use "technology" to heal people, he used the power of the priesthood. The same with prophets who parted water, called Manna from heaven, dispersed armies, called plagues, famines and even fire from heaven. Technology might be likened to trusting in the arm of flesh to move a mountain, while priesthood is trusting in the arm of God. This should not be taken to mean that we do not need to work, but that we work in God's way, not looking for the easiest way, but the right way. Choosing the harder right instead of the easier wrong. An example with technology might be using a harmful chemical to reduce morning sickness in pregnant women that works in the short term, only to find that it is poisonous in the long term and causes serious health consequences to the babies of those women. Better to do it right the first time, then have to suffer the heartache later.

I believe that much of technology is simply an effort to fix a previous problem created by technology.

5. What do you think of groups that have abandoned technology successfully? The Amish would be a good example.

6. Do you expect that future technology will bring us closer to God?

I believe that we came to earth to have a physical experience. I think that we sometimes disregard the importance of the physical in favor of the spiritual, but the reality is that to become like God: we must master both! Remember, Satan has a spiritual body, and he has spiritual power, it is a physical body and physical power that he cannot obtain. This is what drives him to torment man.

With that in mind: I believe that virtual reality, augmented reality, and artificial intelligence will be tool used to move us away from the physical experience and put us in a more "mental" state. It will weaken us and reduce the benefits of a physical mortal experience. I believe much of modern technology has already begun to weaken us.

Just the smallest example how many people use to know all the phone numbers of family and friends. How many don't even know their own phone number right now? Another worse example, how many people are healthy enough to live today without some pharmaceutical or medical intervention to keep their bodies functioning?

If you can get a computer, of one sort or another, to do everything for you, and satisfy all your carnal desires, why even exist? What is your purpose in being here?

Now I'm really going to rile up some feathers: if you can get society to take care of your temporal needs and teach your children, what are you living for except to "eat, drink and be merry?" I think that is where many are at today. Tomorrow: if you can get AI to do your work, to learn and remember for you on top of that, what are you here to do on earth? You'll get a body, but you won't progress.

Coming to earth to get a physical body and experience and then looking for the easiest way to do everything, to avoid work and learning, to limit or refuse to have children through technology is like going to a gym to exercise and then inventing a machine to lift the weights.

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captainfearnot
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Re: Wow! Who Could Have Seen THIS Coming? Self-driving shuttle crashes in Las Vegas hours after launch

Post by captainfearnot »

It's human nature to be perfectly comfortable with the level of technology that we grew up with, while skeptical of advances that come about later in life. Every generation goes through it. When you're young you have to listen to your parents and grandparents talk about how they got along just fine without the modern conveniences you take for granted. And you cannot relate because you have no experience of their bygone world. Then of course you will turn around and give the same lectures to your kids and grandkids, because when you have your own memories of getting along just fine without the current technological advancements, that will suddenly seem very relevant and important.

Case in point. Michelle wants us to remember back when everyone had to memorize each others' phone numbers. As if that were some kind of technological baseline. Today's technology has made this skill obsolete, and in her view that amounts to some kind of loss. But notice that she doesn't question telephone technology that precedes her own generation. She doesn't lament the loss of rotary to touch tone, or the loss of having to place calls through an operator, or the days before telephones existed at all and letter writing was how we communicated. The actual technology has little to do with any of this, except that it forms a convenient marker by which to measure the passage of time, and gives us something to blame for our generational angst.

The only reason automobiles are widely seen as an acceptable level of tech while self-driving cars are not is because of the year we were born. Had we been born earlier we would be skeptical of automobiles themselves—as many were when they were cutting edge. And had we been born years from now, at a time when self-driving cars are commonplace, we wouldn't question them.

Spaced_Out
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Re: Wow! Who Could Have Seen THIS Coming? Self-driving shuttle crashes in Las Vegas hours after launch

Post by Spaced_Out »

Benjamin_LK wrote: November 10th, 2017, 6:15 am Technology will become a casualty of civil war. Seriously, it was a casualty in any one of the civil wars I know. Government and rebels alike will destroy valuable infrastructure so that the other side has less to use against them. It's likewise not immediately clear who are on the rebels side. And the rebels hate the idea of fence sitters. Then there's the fact that part of the abomination of desolation is likely to include nuclear weapons. The on board computer systems, as well as the vehicless themselves, are toast, with some exceptions if we still have some primitive ignition systems. Then for the cars that run, people will kill to get an operating vehicle. It will be a true Mad Max world is all I can say. You're right about people not turning out educationally, but what can you expect after generations of absent parenting, oN top of people getting considered useless for labor because they can just hire a machine to do it?
This to some extent is true - every major civilisation has fallen and the technologies they had went with them. But we are now living in a truly global world. If one country explodes due to civil war it will not affect technology as there are very many other countries that have it and the manufacturing capability. It will take a global apocalypse and the entire world will be looking like Syria before technology takes a step back.

Spaced_Out
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Re: Wow! Who Could Have Seen THIS Coming? Self-driving shuttle crashes in Las Vegas hours after launch

Post by Spaced_Out »

Michelle wrote: November 10th, 2017, 11:38 am There are a lot of misconceptions about my purpose and original post. I know I used the story of a self driving car, but I have written a lot on this board about my concerns about technology. This was simply presented as anecdotal evidence..............
The technology is there as with anything it is how we use it. Family History would be at a snails pace if not for modern tech. Medical benefits if a family member has a health problem due you refuse the technology to help them - or do you simply say it is their fault they have a health issue as they don;t have enough faith in God. Life expectancy has increased and quality of life as well.
Anthropologists would say that we live 20years longer due to having clean water to drink - yet everyone complains about chlorine and other chem in the water, remove all the chemicals and watch the water born diseases ravage the country as they did in the past. Things like cholera wiped out many settlements of the early saints. Using a computer and internet to complain about modern technology is a bit ironical... It is like ISIS using modern videos to tape and post online videos of them destroying televisions, as the technology is evil.

I agree that automation is having a major impact on the workplace and employment is suffering as well a wage growth which is accelerating poverty, but if we look at the trillions of dollars spent on warfare by global governments then it is easy to see the resources are available and the earth is full, but to a large extent the technology is used for evil - that is simply because man has become greedy and wicked. In the days of Noah they were all destroyed due to wickedness likewise with the Nephites, and Jaradites etc etc.. It is not the technology that caused the problem is that people became wicked. Removing technology does not remove sin from the world.

Michelle
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Re: Wow! Who Could Have Seen THIS Coming? Self-driving shuttle crashes in Las Vegas hours after launch

Post by Michelle »

captainfearnot wrote: November 10th, 2017, 12:44 pm It's human nature to be perfectly comfortable with the level of technology that we grew up with, while skeptical of advances that come about later in life. Every generation goes through it. When you're young you have to listen to your parents and grandparents talk about how they got along just fine without the modern conveniences you take for granted. And you cannot relate because you have no experience of their bygone world. Then of course you will turn around and give the same lectures to your kids and grandkids, because when you have your own memories of getting along just fine without the current technological advancements, that will suddenly seem very relevant and important.

Case in point. Michelle wants us to remember back when everyone had to memorize each others' phone numbers. As if that were some kind of technological baseline. Today's technology has made this skill obsolete, and in her view that amounts to some kind of loss. But notice that she doesn't question telephone technology that precedes her own generation. She doesn't lament the loss of rotary to touch tone, or the loss of having to place calls through an operator, or the days before telephones existed at all and letter writing was how we communicated. The actual technology has little to do with any of this, except that it forms a convenient marker by which to measure the passage of time, and gives us something to blame for our generational angst.

The only reason automobiles are widely seen as an acceptable level of tech while self-driving cars are not is because of the year we were born. Had we been born earlier we would be skeptical of automobiles themselves—as many were when they were cutting edge. And had we been born years from now, at a time when self-driving cars are commonplace, we wouldn't question them.
captainfearnot is only commenting on this post, I have other posts that are more explicit. I certainly lament the loss of days before telephones existed at all. I lament the industrial revolution and the moving of families from rural to city life. I lament the existence of the automobile. I was not born when may of the things I lament were even in common use, and I question the technologies I was born into. I used the example of telephone numbers because it is a recent change that many can still remember and that happened almost over night. I suppose if I had enough time, I could write a book instead of a post and address the topic more thoroughly, but a post is all I have time for.

At college I remember reading an excerpt from a journal from a man who was quite old when his memories were recorded. He remember the changes from agricultural to industrial. He shared how the world had changed. I am only paraphrasing, but he said that when he was young there was no distinction between work and play in their lives and community. He said helping a neighbor build a structure like a barn was always accompanied by a picnic and maybe a dance. He said that when the women got together to quilt, they also visited. He lamented the distinction between work and play and the modern mode of work that was wearing us out and stealing our recreation and relationships.

Michelle
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Re: Wow! Who Could Have Seen THIS Coming? Self-driving shuttle crashes in Las Vegas hours after launch

Post by Michelle »

Spaced_Out wrote: November 10th, 2017, 1:43 pm
Michelle wrote: November 10th, 2017, 11:38 am There are a lot of misconceptions about my purpose and original post. I know I used the story of a self driving car, but I have written a lot on this board about my concerns about technology. This was simply presented as anecdotal evidence..............
The technology is there as with anything it is how we use it. Family History would be at a snails pace if not for modern tech. Medical benefits if a family member has a health problem due you refuse the technology to help them - or do you simply say it is their fault they have a health issue as they don;t have enough faith in God. Life expectancy has increased and quality of life as well.
Anthropologists would say that we live 20years longer due to having clean water to drink - yet everyone complains about chlorine and other chem in the water, remove all the chemicals and watch the water born diseases ravage the country as they did in the past. Things like cholera wiped out many settlements of the early saints. Using a computer and internet to complain about modern technology is a bit ironical... It is like ISIS using modern videos to tape and post online videos of them destroying televisions, as the technology is evil.

I agree that automation is having a major impact on the workplace and employment is suffering as well a wage growth which is accelerating poverty, but if we look at the trillions of dollars spent on warfare by global governments then it is easy to see the resources are available and the earth is full, but to a large extent the technology is used for evil - that is simply because man has become greedy and wicked. In the days of Noah they were all destroyed due to wickedness likewise with the Nephites, and Jaradites etc etc.. It is not the technology that caused the problem is that people became wicked. Removing technology does not remove sin from the world.
I have addressed these points before, but I will do it again. The Chinese were able to keep their family history for thousands of years without modern technology. Modern tech is meeting us where we are at because we didn't do it right the first time. I find that for all the help that I get from technology with regard to family history work, it also causes it to be slowed down by the careless work of those who would baptize the same person 10 or more times because they were too quick to assume what they saw on the screen was correct or worse just make stuff up if they don't know and then do the same people over and over and over. I think the tech is a wash when it comes to the speed of family history work. I also believe that it is not about the speed we accomplish Family History work, but what we learn about our family and how we learn to listen to the Spirit. There is much work we cannot do with or without tech that will be accomplished in the Millennium because we will need heaven's intervention to fill in the blanks.

Medical. Most modern medicine in the US addresses diseases caused by not following the health advice given in the scriptures from the Old Testament all the way up to the Word of Wisdom. Three biggest killers in the US right now are: diet related heart disease, type II diabetes and most cancer. All caused by modern life, all treated but not cured by modern medicine. Sure, we can use modern medicine to treat these things once they occur, but I am also teaching my children to avoid them in the first place.

Life expectancy has increased and quality of life as well. The first could have been true regardless of modern medicine. Germ theory came about in the mid 1700s and wasn't accepted until later. But you don't even have to know about germs if you followed the counsel given in the Old Testament 4000 years ago regarding food, sanitation and health in the Law of Moses. People disregarded the counsel, suffered for thousands of years, and they called the "technology" of hand washing, cleanliness and quarantining a miracle of science. (Not to mention vaccines, but I really shouldn't go there should I? lol) As for antibiotics, they were a short lived miracle. I, as well as many people I know, can't even use them. We have become allergic through overuse, not even by ourselves or intentionally, but modern practices.

As for quality of life, I do not agree. I would rather have a healthy body in the first place than one that is kept alive by prescriptions and dialysis. My quality of life has improved dramatically as I have gone back to older ways. I have been cured of many health problems including severe eczema by using real soap: lard, lye and water. Sleeping on the floor cured my carpal tunnel and back problems, I can't recommend it enough. I was even cured of low fertility by following much of the Old Testament advice as prompted by the Spirit. I have enjoyed my food much more eating seasonally. For example, I didn't eat apples from last fall to this fall and they were just like candy when I finally had one again. My quality of life has improved dramatically as I spend less time on the computer and more time in the real world.

Clean water: again, if we lived as we should: spread out instead of right on top of each other, this isn't as big of a problem. Old Testament sanitation laws addressed this as well. I also have no expectation that just because I do everything right (who could anyway) that I will avoid all the problems of mortality. That is kind of the point of mortality: opposition to learn the difference between good and evil. Health and sickness are on that list.

I am the first to admit that using tech to communicate these ideas is ironic. I have even said so in other posts on LDSFF. I talk about this in real life as well, but that it turns out, is often preaching to the choir. I am trying to share what I have learned with those who I won't meet and who don't talk about such things in real life.

I agree that removing technology won't remove sin, or all the difficulties, sickness and trials of mortality, but I do believe that technology is being used to spread sin and tempt the weak. So, when it comes to trade offs (there is always opposition in all things and I can acknowledge the benefits of technology) I feel like tech is net loss not a net gain in terms of spiritual growth and the plan. That doesn't mean the Lord can't use it for his purposes: he has a pattern of frustrating Satan's plans by turning them to the benefit of his people, I still think we will be better off rejecting, or making sure we don't need, most of what it brings.

Tool or trap? This is one tool that I see more often than not turns into a trap.

One last point, the road from Babylon to Zion is never paved with ease and luxury. As hard as life in Egypt was as slaves, the Israelite's complained about Moses (really the Lord) taking them from Egypt because they missed the "flesh pots."

The pilgrims left a world the knew for a world they were almost certain would kill them if the Lord didn't help them on their way.

The Saints left the "civilized world" of the United States for a desert that no one wanted. One of my favorite pioneer quotes comes from a sister who came to Utah and said something like,"We had walked for thousands of miles to reach this place. When I saw it, I would have walked thousands of miles to stop anywhere else."

Why does Zion always appearso much less desirable than Bablyon? One reason might be because if it was more desirable the wicked would come and destroy it even faster. William Bradford said this idea influenced the pilgrims coming to America. They considered Guinea, but they thought it sounded so desirable too many people would follow them. America sounded so undesirable, they thought it would give them time to build their community. (from the History of Plimoth Plantation by William Bradford)

I am actually not trying to convince people to give up on technology. I am simply trying to point out that there are alternatives that may look less desirable on the surface or in the short term, but prove more trouble than they are worth. I wish more people would consider their ways and decide if what they are doing is "choosing the harder right instead of the easier wrong" or choosing the easier wrong over the harder right.

Hard doesn't equal right, for sure, no need to make things harder than they need to be. But being fully aware of the consequences of our choices before we make them instead of just going along with what everybody else is doing is kind of the definition of using agency. We have been taught to be agents who act, instead of objects being acted upon.

Spaced_Out
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Re: Wow! Who Could Have Seen THIS Coming? Self-driving shuttle crashes in Las Vegas hours after launch

Post by Spaced_Out »

Technology is freedom, without the printing press - the majority of the world- the majority population could never learn to read and write - the Book of Mormon came in a time that it could be printed and distributed. Humans have done better with technology than without it. Slavery and human trafficking was rife since the beginning as people were kept in ignorance and enslaved with continual wars and destruction. The gospel never covered the earth only was available to very small sections of the world population.
Without technology there would of been no colonisation of America not constitution no Book of Mormon. The dark ages were replaced by enlightenment as technology became available and went to the masses.
I don't buy your story of if we lived right and ate well then we will be healthy and not been modern medicine. Being able to eat healthy food and have it available is due to modern technology - before that people would starve and have feast and famine depending on the seasons. We have plenty of veg seeds available and knowledge to plant them and deal with pest insects and animals due to technology..
Without vaccines polio and measles and a host of destructive diseases would still continue to ravage the planet, in areas affected by war where vaccinations are stopped polio and many deadly diseases are returning. People that are against vaccination are living in the twilight zone of fake conspiracy theories. There are communities in Australia that have deiced no more vaccinations and are being ravaged by totally preventable diseases then have to go to hospital and millions of dollars spent on treatment and long term recovery like whooping cough.. Not many years ago just getting a common cold used to kill people or a scratch that got infected. The greatest invention of the 20th century was votes as being x-ray, if people got a broken arm or leg the doctors would jut amputate it. Thousands of people would spend their life in a near state of blindness without glasses and cataract surgery etc... etc... etc........

How did George Washington die http://www.mountvernon.org/digital-ency ... ashington/
they bled him to death - these are the things that people dealt with prior to modern technology - yeah you could say the treatments were bad, and you can say you have better knowledge to treat people without modern medicine but the knowledge comes from modern understanding of the human body and how it works.
Life expectancy is now higher than it has ever been. When Australia first introduced old age pension less than 5% of the population lived to ever receive any now it is prob 95% of the population lives to pensionable age - they have just change the retirement age from 67 to 70 as people are living much longer, infant mortality in child birth was very high - all these things we take for granted.
If you were living back 300y ago you would of got married at age 13 and been a grandmother by 25 and probably dead long before 30 that was very normal, but you post about health problems it is highly likely you would of not made it out of your twenties.

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harakim
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Re: Wow! Who Could Have Seen THIS Coming? Self-driving shuttle crashes in Las Vegas hours after launch

Post by harakim »

Mindfields wrote: November 9th, 2017, 6:45 am "Truck making delivery backed into shuttle, which was stopped. Human error causes most traffic collisions and this was no different. Driver of truck was cited. No one hurt except a bruised bumper!"

https://jalopnik.com/a-human-driver-cra ... 1820269207
That's what I thought. Everyone assumed it was the shuttle, but I figured it was the other vehicle.

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Re: Wow! Who Could Have Seen THIS Coming? Self-driving shuttle crashes in Las Vegas hours after launch

Post by Benjamin_LK »

Couldn't the car honk it's horn, or reason that it was too close to the back of the truck?

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