Conceal carry in church

[mirkwood]

Alma 48:17 Yea, verily, verily I say unto you, if all men had been, and were, and ever would be, like unto Moroni, behold, the very powers of hell would have been shaken forever; yea, the devil would never have power over the hearts of the children of men.

Perhaps you would like to review the war chapters in Alma and point out where everyone was laying down and dying instead of defending themselves. You know, all those people led by Moroni mentioned above.

[David13]

Excellent. I couldn't agree more.

"One thing about the Texas church shootings that really puzzled me was this: how in the world could all of those folks in that rural Texas church be unarmed? The people of Texas--especially in rural areas--are passionate about their right to keep and bear arms.

Now, I learn why. According to reliable sources I trust, the pastor had apparently told his people not to bring their guns to church. And the people complied with the instructions of their pastor. The shooter had attended this church several times, so he knew that the church was, in effect, a gun-free zone.

Submission to pastoral authority is Biblical and commendable--but NOT in this case. If it's true the pastor told his congregation to not come to church armed, he had overstepped his authority. Human authority (ecclesiastical, political, judicial, familial, etc.) has no right to usurp God's authority. And God's Word gives the heads of households the DUTY of lawful self-defense.

Sadly, there are countless churches across America where pastors have told their congregations the same thing as this pastor apparently told his congregation in Texas. Politically-correct preaching has endangered the lives of probably millions of people every Sunday--as we have now tragically witnessed.

If you attend a church where your pastor has forbidden you to come to church armed, here are my comments:

1. Why are you still attending that church?

2. If you decide to remain at that church, you should refuse to submit to that request, and always be armed--providing you are physically capable, lawfully able, and duly trained, of course.

3. You should tell your pastor in no uncertain terms that his request that you not be armed is unscriptural and that you will not comply. Let him know you will be discreet about it, but that you will not allow yourself to be disarmed.

4. If the pastor does not honor your Biblical and Natural right to self-defense, you should leave that church and find a pastor who understands and honors this scriptural duty. As we now know, the lives of your family might depend on it.

5. If you need help in explaining the Biblical defense for the right to keep and bear arms, I offer the book I co-authored entitled "To Keep or Not To Keep: Why Christians Should Not Give Up Their Guns." And that includes not surrendering the duty of BEARING arms." ~ Chuck Baldwin

Good post....however....

17 And now it came to pass that when the king had made an end of these sayings, and all the people were assembled together, they took their swords, and all the weapons which were used for the shedding of man’s blood, and they did bury them up deep in the earth.

21 Now when the people saw that they were coming against them they went out to meet them, and prostrated themselves before them to the earth, and began to call on the name of the Lord; and thus they were in this attitude when the Lamanites began to fall upon them, and began to slay them with the sword.

22 And thus without meeting any resistance, they did slay a thousand and five of them; and we know that they are blessed, for they have gone to dwell with their God.

23 Now when the Lamanites saw that their brethren would not flee from the sword, neither would they turn aside to the right hand or to the left, but that they would lie down and perish, and praised God even in the very act of perishing under the sword—

This is what you should look to:
Alma 43
46 And they were doing that which they felt was the duty which they owed to their God; for the Lord had said unto them, and also unto their fathers, that: Inasmuch as ye are not guilty of the first offense, neither the second, ye shall not suffer yourselves to be slain by the hands of your enemies.

47 And again, the Lord has said that: Ye shall defend your families even unto bloodshed. Therefore for this cause were the Nephites contending with the Lamanites, to defend themselves, and their families, and their lands, their country, and their rights, and their religion.

dc

[Arenera]

Alma 48:17 Yea, verily, verily I say unto you, if all men had been, and were, and ever would be, like unto Moroni, behold, the very powers of hell would have been shaken forever; yea, the devil would never have power over the hearts of the children of men.

Perhaps you would like to review the war chapters in Alma and point out where everyone was laying down and dying instead of defending themselves. You know, all those people led by Moroni mentioned above.

There are levels in the Book of Mormon...

How many thousands were killed in the wars? This is a Telestial level. Great people, like Moroni live in the Telestial world. If you want to pack guns in the Telestial level, because that is what people do, then go about and maybe you get the adventure of shooting people in a church.

Alma Sr, Alma Jr, sons of Mosiah represent a higher level. They left the Telestial level and went to a Terrestrial level. In a Terrestrial level, you are not interested in killing people, even those who are bad.

Did Christ kill those people who were bent on killing Him? No.

[mirkwood]

maybe you get the adventure of shooting people in a church.

Wow. Did you think before you posted that?

Alma Sr, Alma Jr, sons of Mosiah represent a higher level. They left the Telestial level and went to a Terrestrial level. In a Terrestrial level, you are not interested in killing people, even those who are bad.

I'm not interested in killing anyone either. But I will if I have too. I guess you missed David's post above. Might want to read it.

Did Christ kill those people who were bent on killing Him? No.

Pretty sure I remember him telling his apostles to sell their cloaks and buy swords.

[EmmaLee]

3. You should tell your pastor in no uncertain terms that his request that you not be armed is unscriptural and that you will not comply. Let him know you will be discreet about it, but that you will not allow yourself to be disarmed.

4. If the pastor does not honor your Biblical and Natural right to self-defense, you should leave that church and find a pastor who understands and honors this scriptural duty. As we now know, the lives of your family might depend on it.

Would this also apply to our church? We're in the same situation.

I agree with #3, but not necessarily with #4. As with everything - take it to the Lord.

[Ezra]

Excellent. I couldn't agree more.

"One thing about the Texas church shootings that really puzzled me was this: how in the world could all of those folks in that rural Texas church be unarmed? The people of Texas--especially in rural areas--are passionate about their right to keep and bear arms.

Now, I learn why. According to reliable sources I trust, the pastor had apparently told his people not to bring their guns to church. And the people complied with the instructions of their pastor. The shooter had attended this church several times, so he knew that the church was, in effect, a gun-free zone.

Submission to pastoral authority is Biblical and commendable--but NOT in this case. If it's true the pastor told his congregation to not come to church armed, he had overstepped his authority. Human authority (ecclesiastical, political, judicial, familial, etc.) has no right to usurp God's authority. And God's Word gives the heads of households the DUTY of lawful self-defense.

Sadly, there are countless churches across America where pastors have told their congregations the same thing as this pastor apparently told his congregation in Texas. Politically-correct preaching has endangered the lives of probably millions of people every Sunday--as we have now tragically witnessed.

If you attend a church where your pastor has forbidden you to come to church armed, here are my comments:

1. Why are you still attending that church?

2. If you decide to remain at that church, you should refuse to submit to that request, and always be armed--providing you are physically capable, lawfully able, and duly trained, of course.

3. You should tell your pastor in no uncertain terms that his request that you not be armed is unscriptural and that you will not comply. Let him know you will be discreet about it, but that you will not allow yourself to be disarmed.

4. If the pastor does not honor your Biblical and Natural right to self-defense, you should leave that church and find a pastor who understands and honors this scriptural duty. As we now know, the lives of your family might depend on it.

5. If you need help in explaining the Biblical defense for the right to keep and bear arms, I offer the book I co-authored entitled "To Keep or Not To Keep: Why Christians Should Not Give Up Their Guns." And that includes not surrendering the duty of BEARING arms." ~ Chuck Baldwin

Good post....however....

17 And now it came to pass that when the king had made an end of these sayings, and all the people were assembled together, they took their swords, and all the weapons which were used for the shedding of man’s blood, and they did bury them up deep in the earth.

21 Now when the people saw that they were coming against them they went out to meet them, and prostrated themselves before them to the earth, and began to call on the name of the Lord; and thus they were in this attitude when the Lamanites began to fall upon them, and began to slay them with the sword.

22 And thus without meeting any resistance, they did slay a thousand and five of them; and we know that they are blessed, for they have gone to dwell with their God.

23 Now when the Lamanites saw that their brethren would not flee from the sword, neither would they turn aside to the right hand or to the left, but that they would lie down and perish, and praised God even in the very act of perishing under the sword—

That type of sacrifice is definitely impressive but not necessary.
It’s one way to do it and you would be blessed for it but you would also be dead.

You are also justified by the lord in self defense. And blessed if you follow his instructions found in d&c 98 on this topic.

I like life so would choose to follow d&c 98 and be blessed in self defense.

[Arenera]

maybe you get the adventure of shooting people in a church.

Wow. Did you think before you posted that?

Alma Sr, Alma Jr, sons of Mosiah represent a higher level. They left the Telestial level and went to a Terrestrial level. In a Terrestrial level, you are not interested in killing people, even those who are bad.

I'm not interested in killing anyone either. But I will if I have too. I guess you missed David's post above. Might want to read it.

Did Christ kill those people who were bent on killing Him? No.

Pretty sure I remember him telling his apostles to sell their cloaks and buy swords.

Do our leaders want us to conceal and carry at church? No. Sounds like a bunch of you still want to.

In April 2016, President Nelson gave a talk on the price of the power of the priesthood. I didn't notice buying guns and doing target practice in his talk...

[David13]

maybe you get the adventure of shooting people in a church.

Wow. Did you think before you posted that?

Alma Sr, Alma Jr, sons of Mosiah represent a higher level. They left the Telestial level and went to a Terrestrial level. In a Terrestrial level, you are not interested in killing people, even those who are bad.

I'm not interested in killing anyone either. But I will if I have too. I guess you missed David's post above. Might want to read it.

Did Christ kill those people who were bent on killing Him? No.

Pretty sure I remember him telling his apostles to sell their cloaks and buy swords.

Do our leaders want us to conceal and carry at church? No. Sounds like a bunch of you still want to.

In April 2016, President Nelson gave a talk on the price of the power of the priesthood. I didn't notice buying guns and doing target practice in his talk...

It's in the Book of Mormon. Of course, you don't have to read the Book of Mormon. No one twists your arm.
Or you can do it cafeteria style, just use the parts you like and disregard the rest.
We don't know if it's the leaders, or the lawyers and the insurance companies who don't want guns in church. The leaders have only said it's "inappropriate". Yes, it's inappropriate for insurance purposes, but required for Book of Mormon purposes.
dc

[Robin Hood]

maybe you get the adventure of shooting people in a church.

Wow. Did you think before you posted that?

Alma Sr, Alma Jr, sons of Mosiah represent a higher level. They left the Telestial level and went to a Terrestrial level. In a Terrestrial level, you are not interested in killing people, even those who are bad.

I'm not interested in killing anyone either. But I will if I have too. I guess you missed David's post above. Might want to read it.

Did Christ kill those people who were bent on killing Him? No.

Pretty sure I remember him telling his apostles to sell their cloaks and buy swords.

Do our leaders want us to conceal and carry at church? No. Sounds like a bunch of you still want to.

In April 2016, President Nelson gave a talk on the price of the power of the priesthood. I didn't notice buying guns and doing target practice in his talk...

When we arm ourselves, either as individuals or nations, we are telling God, in my view at least, that we don't entirely trust him to fight our battles for us and to defend us. At least that's what President Kimball taught.
We have a choice. We can remain as we are and eventually suffer the fate of the Nephites, or we can become a Zion people who have complete, undiluted faith in their God.

[Arenera]

maybe you get the adventure of shooting people in a church.

Wow. Did you think before you posted that?

Alma Sr, Alma Jr, sons of Mosiah represent a higher level. They left the Telestial level and went to a Terrestrial level. In a Terrestrial level, you are not interested in killing people, even those who are bad.

I'm not interested in killing anyone either. But I will if I have too. I guess you missed David's post above. Might want to read it.

Did Christ kill those people who were bent on killing Him? No.

Pretty sure I remember him telling his apostles to sell their cloaks and buy swords.

Do our leaders want us to conceal and carry at church? No. Sounds like a bunch of you still want to.

In April 2016, President Nelson gave a talk on the price of the power of the priesthood. I didn't notice buying guns and doing target practice in his talk...

When we arm ourselves, either as individuals or nations, we are telling God, in my view at least, that we don't entirely trust him to fight our battles for us and to defend us. At least that's what President Kimball taught.
We have a choice. We can remain as we are and eventually suffer the fate of the Nephites, or we can become a Zion people who have complete, undiluted faith in their God.

Exactly!

[lundbaek]

Does anybody know what kind of weapons Church security people carry ?

[Robin Hood]

Does anybody know what kind of weapons Church security people carry ?

None, in the UK.

[Mark]

maybe you get the adventure of shooting people in a church.

Wow. Did you think before you posted that?

Alma Sr, Alma Jr, sons of Mosiah represent a higher level. They left the Telestial level and went to a Terrestrial level. In a Terrestrial level, you are not interested in killing people, even those who are bad.

I'm not interested in killing anyone either. But I will if I have too. I guess you missed David's post above. Might want to read it.

Did Christ kill those people who were bent on killing Him? No.

Pretty sure I remember him telling his apostles to sell their cloaks and buy swords.

Do our leaders want us to conceal and carry at church? No. Sounds like a bunch of you still want to.

In April 2016, President Nelson gave a talk on the price of the power of the priesthood. I didn't notice buying guns and doing target practice in his talk...

When we arm ourselves, either as individuals or nations, we are telling God, in my view at least, that we don't entirely trust him to fight our battles for us and to defend us. At least that's what President Kimball taught.
We have a choice. We can remain as we are and eventually suffer the fate of the Nephites, or we can become a Zion people who have complete, undiluted faith in their God.

That is a load of rubbish. Defending ones family and God given rights against evil tyrants and criminal elements is completely scriptural and in line with righteous principles. Just ask Captain Moroni. He will set you straight mate. Stop drinking the kool-aid.

[Arenera]

Wow. Did you think before you posted that?



I'm not interested in killing anyone either. But I will if I have too. I guess you missed David's post above. Might want to read it.




Pretty sure I remember him telling his apostles to sell their cloaks and buy swords.

Do our leaders want us to conceal and carry at church? No. Sounds like a bunch of you still want to.

In April 2016, President Nelson gave a talk on the price of the power of the priesthood. I didn't notice buying guns and doing target practice in his talk...

When we arm ourselves, either as individuals or nations, we are telling God, in my view at least, that we don't entirely trust him to fight our battles for us and to defend us. At least that's what President Kimball taught.
We have a choice. We can remain as we are and eventually suffer the fate of the Nephites, or we can become a Zion people who have complete, undiluted faith in their God.

That is a load of rubbish. Defending ones family and God given rights against evil tyrants and criminal elements is completely scriptural and in line with righteous principles. Just ask Captain Moroni. He will set you straight mate. Stop drinking the kool-aid.

Get ur guns...

5 And now, as the preaching of the word had a great tendency to lead the people to do that which was just—yea, it had had more powerful effect upon the minds of the people than the sword, or anything else,

[Serragon]

When we arm ourselves, either as individuals or nations, we are telling God, in my view at least, that we don't entirely trust him to fight our battles for us and to defend us. At least that's what President Kimball taught.
We have a choice. We can remain as we are and eventually suffer the fate of the Nephites, or we can become a Zion people who have complete, undiluted faith in their God.

By this same logic we can conclude the following:

When we use medicine or doctors, we do not entirely trust God to heal us.
When we collect food storage, we do not entirely trust God to feed us.
When we put on clothing, we do not entirely trust God to protect us from the elements.
When we build houses, we do not entirely trust God to shelter us.

There is no end to this list.

[Arenera]

When we arm ourselves, either as individuals or nations, we are telling God, in my view at least, that we don't entirely trust him to fight our battles for us and to defend us. At least that's what President Kimball taught.
We have a choice. We can remain as we are and eventually suffer the fate of the Nephites, or we can become a Zion people who have complete, undiluted faith in their God.

By this same logic we can conclude the following:

When we use medicine or doctors, we do not entirely trust God to heal us.
When we collect food storage, we do not entirely trust God to feed us.
When we put on clothing, we do not entirely trust God to protect us from the elements.
When we build houses, we do not entirely trust God to shelter us.

There is no end to this list.

Has anyone read the BOM...

5 And it came to pass that the Lord did warn me, that I, Nephi, should depart from them and flee into the wilderness, and all those who would go with me.

[David13]

When we arm ourselves, either as individuals or nations, we are telling God, in my view at least, that we don't entirely trust him to fight our battles for us and to defend us. At least that's what President Kimball taught.
We have a choice. We can remain as we are and eventually suffer the fate of the Nephites, or we can become a Zion people who have complete, undiluted faith in their God.

By this same logic we can conclude the following:

When we use medicine or doctors, we do not entirely trust God to heal us.
When we collect food storage, we do not entirely trust God to feed us.
When we put on clothing, we do not entirely trust God to protect us from the elements.
When we build houses, we do not entirely trust God to shelter us.

There is no end to this list.

Has anyone read the BOM...

5 And it came to pass that the Lord did warn me, that I, Nephi, should depart from them and flee into the wilderness, and all those who would go with me.

Have you read the Book of Mormon? That was exactly my question to you! Go back and read what I quoted. It's set forth quite plainly.
dc

[Arenera]

When we arm ourselves, either as individuals or nations, we are telling God, in my view at least, that we don't entirely trust him to fight our battles for us and to defend us. At least that's what President Kimball taught.
We have a choice. We can remain as we are and eventually suffer the fate of the Nephites, or we can become a Zion people who have complete, undiluted faith in their God.

By this same logic we can conclude the following:

When we use medicine or doctors, we do not entirely trust God to heal us.
When we collect food storage, we do not entirely trust God to feed us.
When we put on clothing, we do not entirely trust God to protect us from the elements.
When we build houses, we do not entirely trust God to shelter us.

There is no end to this list.

Has anyone read the BOM...

5 And it came to pass that the Lord did warn me, that I, Nephi, should depart from them and flee into the wilderness, and all those who would go with me.

Have you read the Book of Mormon? That was exactly my question to you! Go back and read what I quoted. It's set forth quite plainly.
dc

I will speak unto you somewhat concerning Mosiah, who was made king over the land of Zarahemla; for behold, he being warned of the Lord that he should flee out of the land of Nephi, and as many as would hearken unto the voice of the Lord should also depart out of the land with him, into the wilderness—

[mirkwood]

Does anybody know what kind of weapons Church security people carry ?

Glock 19

[David13]

By this same logic we can conclude the following:

When we use medicine or doctors, we do not entirely trust God to heal us.
When we collect food storage, we do not entirely trust God to feed us.
When we put on clothing, we do not entirely trust God to protect us from the elements.
When we build houses, we do not entirely trust God to shelter us.

There is no end to this list.

Has anyone read the BOM...

5 And it came to pass that the Lord did warn me, that I, Nephi, should depart from them and flee into the wilderness, and all those who would go with me.

Have you read the Book of Mormon? That was exactly my question to you! Go back and read what I quoted. It's set forth quite plainly.
dc

I will speak unto you somewhat concerning Mosiah, who was made king over the land of Zarahemla; for behold, he being warned of the Lord that he should flee out of the land of Nephi, and as many as would hearken unto the voice of the Lord should also depart out of the land with him, into the wilderness—

Alma 43

47 And again, the Lord has said that: Ye shall defend your families even unto bloodshed.

[Ezra]

Has anyone read the BOM...

5 And it came to pass that the Lord did warn me, that I, Nephi, should depart from them and flee into the wilderness, and all those who would go with me.

Have you read the Book of Mormon? That was exactly my question to you! Go back and read what I quoted. It's set forth quite plainly.
dc

I will speak unto you somewhat concerning Mosiah, who was made king over the land of Zarahemla; for behold, he being warned of the Lord that he should flee out of the land of Nephi, and as many as would hearken unto the voice of the Lord should also depart out of the land with him, into the wilderness—

Alma 43

47 And again, the Lord has said that: Ye shall defend your families even unto bloodshed.

You all are arguing over 2 sides of the same coin.

You can defend yourself and families unto the shedding of blood.
Or
you can flee into the wilderness. Refuse to take up arms against your neighbors or enemy like the anti Nephi lehi.

Either way your your blessed.

One way your more likely to die. But your death could convert many people. The other way if done as the lord defined could get you rewarded not only 100-fold but 800-fold. (See d&c 98 23-26.

That’s a lot of blessing. But still either way it’s 2 side of the same coin your arguing.

[Robin Hood]

Wow. Did you think before you posted that?



I'm not interested in killing anyone either. But I will if I have too. I guess you missed David's post above. Might want to read it.




Pretty sure I remember him telling his apostles to sell their cloaks and buy swords.

Do our leaders want us to conceal and carry at church? No. Sounds like a bunch of you still want to.

In April 2016, President Nelson gave a talk on the price of the power of the priesthood. I didn't notice buying guns and doing target practice in his talk...

When we arm ourselves, either as individuals or nations, we are telling God, in my view at least, that we don't entirely trust him to fight our battles for us and to defend us. At least that's what President Kimball taught.
We have a choice. We can remain as we are and eventually suffer the fate of the Nephites, or we can become a Zion people who have complete, undiluted faith in their God.

That is a load of rubbish. Defending ones family and God given rights against evil tyrants and criminal elements is completely scriptural and in line with righteous principles. Just ask Captain Moroni. He will set you straight mate. Stop drinking the kool-aid.

Really?
I suggest we read the Book of Mormon properly. The Nephites were wiped out. They were destroyed from off the face of the earth. Why, because they would never fully trust God and live righteously. Captain Moroni was making the best of the situation with a stiffed necked people.
Do you honestly believe people will carry guns in Zion?
The Nephites failed to establish Zion. For all Captain Moroni's efforts, untimately it was a failure. The Nephites trusted in their weapons of war more than they trusted in God and that is the situation we're in today.
I recommend people read President Kimball's 1976 sermon, and then take long hard look at our world and our personal conduct in it. In my view when we carry guns around we simply buy into the Babylonian mindset.
We trust in the arm of flesh.

[David13]

Have you read the Book of Mormon? That was exactly my question to you! Go back and read what I quoted. It's set forth quite plainly.
dc

I will speak unto you somewhat concerning Mosiah, who was made king over the land of Zarahemla; for behold, he being warned of the Lord that he should flee out of the land of Nephi, and as many as would hearken unto the voice of the Lord should also depart out of the land with him, into the wilderness—

Alma 43

47 And again, the Lord has said that: Ye shall defend your families even unto bloodshed.

You all are arguing over 2 sides of the same coin.


You can defend yourself and families unto the shedding of blood.
Or
you can flee into the wilderness. Refuse to take up arms against your neighbors or enemy like the anti Nephi lehi.

Either way your your blessed.

One way your more likely to die. But your death could convert many people. The other way if done as the lord defined could get you rewarded not only 100-fold but 800-fold. (See d&c 98 23-26.

That’s a lot of blessing. But still either way it’s 2 side of the same coin your arguing.

What do you do if they pursue you into the wilderness? Do you defend your family unto the shedding of blood? Or allow yourself to be killed by your enemies?
dc

[Ezra]

I will speak unto you somewhat concerning Mosiah, who was made king over the land of Zarahemla; for behold, he being warned of the Lord that he should flee out of the land of Nephi, and as many as would hearken unto the voice of the Lord should also depart out of the land with him, into the wilderness—

Alma 43

47 And again, the Lord has said that: Ye shall defend your families even unto bloodshed.

You all are arguing over 2 sides of the same coin.


You can defend yourself and families unto the shedding of blood.
Or
you can flee into the wilderness. Refuse to take up arms against your neighbors or enemy like the anti Nephi lehi.

Either way your your blessed.

One way your more likely to die. But your death could convert many people. The other way if done as the lord defined could get you rewarded not only 100-fold but 800-fold. (See d&c 98 23-26.

That’s a lot of blessing. But still either way it’s 2 side of the same coin your arguing.

What do you do if they pursue you into the wilderness? Do you defend your family unto the shedding of blood? Or allow yourself to be killed by your enemies?
dc

Kinda like Daniel and the lions den with gods protection . They would have to frist fight off all the furry little animals before they could go after the people who fled.

This would be a good example.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=TnOdAT6H94s

[EmmaLee]

When we arm ourselves, either as individuals or nations, we are telling God, in my view at least, that we don't entirely trust him to fight our battles for us and to defend us. At least that's what President Kimball taught.

Then every prophet/president of the LDS Church from Joseph Smith to Thomas Monson is "telling God that we don't entirely trust him to fight our battles for us and to defend us" - because every one of them has armed guards with them every time they step foot out of their house, including when they're in General Conference. When President Kimball taught that, he had armed guards watching over him. So either every president of the LDS Church is an utter and complete hypocrite - or they don't trust God - or they understand something you don't.