We aren’t talking about police or FBI, who do carry even at church.
We are talking about regular members, carrying and concealing at church, which our leaders don’t want.
We aren’t talking about police or FBI, who do carry even at church.
Give me a quote from the last 30 years, not military or police.larsenb wrote: ↑November 17th, 2017, 3:06 pmWhy do people always seem to make unfounded assumptions about almost any statement. I've said what I've said and it has nothing to do w/making a judgment against those who don't follow my ideas on the subject. I simply don't think in terms of "better Mormons", or not.Arenera wrote: ↑November 17th, 2017, 2:56 pmWhere have our leaders spoke about arming with guns? Are you saying those with guns are better Mormons?larsenb wrote: ↑November 17th, 2017, 2:19 pmAnd you misread what I'm saying, if you think I "want to join with your fellow AR-15" owners and fight the roaming bands". Couldn't be further from the truth. I just want to be prepared if conditions called for it. You apparently don't. A big difference between you and myself.
Though I do think that those who neglect to prepare for their defense and the defense of their families and loved-ones, are somewhat foolish, and have their heads in the sand to some degree. Has nothing to do with their Mormonhood. Though Mormons should know better.
Yes, our leaders have talked about this issue before (maybe some of the quotes in this thread). I think they really don't have to say much in view of the already existing scriptures on the subject, which have been quoted in this thread and many times elsewhere.
Such hasn't been my study. Too busy for such things. Existing quotes from scripture cover the bases for me.Arenera wrote: ↑November 17th, 2017, 3:11 pmGive me a quote from the last 30 years, not military or police.larsenb wrote: ↑November 17th, 2017, 3:06 pmWhy do people always seem to make unfounded assumptions about almost any statement. I've said what I've said and it has nothing to do w/making a judgment against those who don't follow my ideas on the subject. I simply don't think in terms of "better Mormons", or not.Arenera wrote: ↑November 17th, 2017, 2:56 pmWhere have our leaders spoke about arming with guns? Are you saying those with guns are better Mormons?larsenb wrote: ↑November 17th, 2017, 2:19 pmAnd you misread what I'm saying, if you think I "want to join with your fellow AR-15" owners and fight the roaming bands". Couldn't be further from the truth. I just want to be prepared if conditions called for it. You apparently don't. A big difference between you and myself.
Though I do think that those who neglect to prepare for their defense and the defense of their families and loved-ones, are somewhat foolish, and have their heads in the sand to some degree. Has nothing to do with their Mormonhood. Though Mormons should know better.
Yes, our leaders have talked about this issue before (maybe some of the quotes in this thread). I think they really don't have to say much in view of the already existing scriptures on the subject, which have been quoted in this thread and many times elsewhere.
If the Brethren want this, so be it.
larsenb wrote: ↑November 17th, 2017, 3:20 pmSuch hasn't been my study. Too busy for such things. Existing quotes from scripture cover the bases for me.Arenera wrote: ↑November 17th, 2017, 3:11 pmGive me a quote from the last 30 years, not military or police.larsenb wrote: ↑November 17th, 2017, 3:06 pmWhy do people always seem to make unfounded assumptions about almost any statement. I've said what I've said and it has nothing to do w/making a judgment against those who don't follow my ideas on the subject. I simply don't think in terms of "better Mormons", or not.
Though I do think that those who neglect to prepare for their defense and the defense of their families and loved-ones, are somewhat foolish, and have their heads in the sand to some degree. Has nothing to do with their Mormonhood. Though Mormons should know better.
Yes, our leaders have talked about this issue before (maybe some of the quotes in this thread). I think they really don't have to say much in view of the already existing scriptures on the subject, which have been quoted in this thread and many times elsewhere.
But I will make a similar request of you: Give me a quote from the last 30 years from the Brethren saying we aren't responsible for our own and our families defense, and/or that they say we should give up our guns. I do seem to recall that there have been recent quotes discouraging the members from 'hoarding' guns.
https://www.lds.org/ensign/2017/04/the- ... n?lang=engBecause we had not yet received physical bodies, we fought the War in Heaven without swords, guns, or bombs. But the fighting was just as intense as any modern war, and there were billions of casualties.
Your quote doesn't quite cover the bases, simply because we are acting in a sphere where we HAVE received bodies. So actually, the quote undermines your argument.Arenera wrote: ↑November 17th, 2017, 3:36 pmlarsenb wrote: ↑November 17th, 2017, 3:20 pm
Such hasn't been my study. Too busy for such things. Existing quotes from scripture cover the bases for me.
But I will make a similar request of you: Give me a quote from the last 30 years from the Brethren saying we aren't responsible for our own and our families defense, and/or that they say we should give up our guns. I do seem to recall that there have been recent quotes discouraging the members from 'hoarding' guns.https://www.lds.org/ensign/2017/04/the- ... n?lang=engBecause we had not yet received physical bodies, we fought the War in Heaven without swords, guns, or bombs. But the fighting was just as intense as any modern war, and there were billions of casualties.
They are those that follow the words of the Lord in the Book of Mormon.Arenera wrote: ↑November 17th, 2017, 2:56 pmWhere have our leaders spoke about arming with guns? Are you saying those with guns are better Mormons?larsenb wrote: ↑November 17th, 2017, 2:19 pmAnd you misread what I'm saying, if you think I "want to join with your fellow AR-15" owners and fight the roaming bands". Couldn't be further from the truth. I just want to be prepared if conditions called for it. You apparently don't. A big difference between you and myself.
No guns needed. Light, not warlike.we could raise our families in righteousness if we would:
Follow the prophet.
Create the true spirit of the gospel in our hearts and homes.
Be a light to those among whom we live.
Focus on the ordinances and principles taught in the temple. (See D&C 115:5; Harold B. Lee, “Your Light to Be a Standard unto the Nations,” Ensign, Aug. 1973, 3–4.)
As we followed this counsel, our faith increased and our fears decreased. I believe we can raise righteous children anywhere in the world if they are taught religious principles in the home.
The downside of models and paradigms is that they can trap people in them. Models are only truly good when they have give a true view of what they are describing and/or are predictive, otherwise they can become traps.mirkwood wrote: ↑November 17th, 2017, 4:05 pm *sigh* you're willfully missing the point.
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2017/11/08/te ... ooter.html
Not a police officer. Want a bunch more? Do your own research, get out of your paradigm.
Imagine people having a different opinion...Your logic on your opinion always seems right.larsenb wrote: ↑November 17th, 2017, 4:37 pmThe downside of models and paradigms is that they can trap people in them. Models are only truly good when they have give a true view of what they are describing and/or are predictive, otherwise they can become traps.mirkwood wrote: ↑November 17th, 2017, 4:05 pm *sigh* you're willfully missing the point.
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2017/11/08/te ... ooter.html
Not a police officer. Want a bunch more? Do your own research, get out of your paradigm.
It's is normally a waste of time to get into a discussion/argument with people who are thusly trapped.
A sign of someone in this condition, is that whatever point you may make in a discussion, or how ever logical it may be, the trapped person will barely, if ever, respond or acknowledge or refute the point or information you provide.
The 'bifurcation' logical error normally is very pervasive in the arguments provide by people trapped by their models, along with unwarranted generalizations, of one stripe or another.
I see this again and again, and then again, on forum discussions such as this one. I personally try to avoid such things. Not always successful, but being aware of the danger helps.
Elderly man accidentally shoots wife at Tennessee church during talk about church shooting
Tennessee man accidentally shot himself and his wife at church during a discussion about the recent massacre at a Texas church.
Elder members of First United Methodist Church in Tellico Plains were meeting Thursday afternoon to eat a Thanksgiving dinner when the mass shooting came up, and one of them asked if anyone brought their gun to church, reported WATE-TV.
Police said a man in his 80s pulled out a .380 caliber Ruger handgun and boasted, “I carry my handgun everywhere.
The man removed the magazine, cleared the chamber and showed the weapon to some other men, then put the magazine back in, evidently loaded a round into the chamber and returned the gun to his holster, police said.
Someone else walked up and asked to see the gun, police said, and the man took out the weapon again.
He pulled it back out and said, ‘With this loaded indicator, I can tell that it’s not loaded,'” according to Police Chief Russ Parks.
He then pulled the trigger, apparently forgetting he had put a round in the chamber.
The gun was lying on its side on a table, and the bullet sliced the man’s palm and entered the left side of his wife’s abdomen and exited the right.
Both of them were hospitalized with non-life-threatening injuries.
No charges will be filed in the shooting, police said.
Post by Robin Hood »
Absolutely agree.
RH, you're denying history again. The Joseph to whom you refer used a pistol to try to kill his attackers in Carthage jail. We are obviously miles apart on this issue, but I won't let you rewrite history. Joseph Smith was the leader of the Nauvoo Legion, a nasty little militia with guns. Guns, RH, guns that shoot, and make noise, and kill people and horrible stuff like that. You cannot pretend away the fact that he, the Prophet of the Restoration, knew the proper role of guns in society. Your attempts to "guilt" us with references to a Telestial mindset are in vain. When I make it to the Celestial Kingdom, I am going to design and manufacture my own guns just to spite you. I will make them so powerful they can hit you down in the Terrestrial Kingdom where you'll be sent for not being valiant in supporting the God-given right to defend oneself.Robin Hood wrote: ↑November 18th, 2017, 5:02 amAbsolutely agree.
It is the Telestial/Babylonian mindset which informs much of this debate.
Nearly 200 years on and we've learned nothing. Joseph would turn in his grave.
Robin Hood and Arenera, I do not agree with you on this.Robin Hood wrote: ↑November 18th, 2017, 5:02 amAbsolutely agree.
It is the Telestial/Babylonian mindset which informs much of this debate.
Nearly 200 years on and we've learned nothing. Joseph would turn in his grave.
Joseph used a gun to shoot back at the mobbers coming up the stairs for him and his companions in the Carthage Jail. As I recall, he actually shot one or more of them.Robin Hood wrote: ↑November 18th, 2017, 5:02 amAbsolutely agree.
It is the Telestial/Babylonian mindset which informs much of this debate.
Nearly 200 years on and we've learned nothing. Joseph would turn in his grave.
Post by Robin Hood »
David13 wrote: ↑November 18th, 2017, 9:40 amRobin Hood and Arenera, I do not agree with you on this.Robin Hood wrote: ↑November 18th, 2017, 5:02 amAbsolutely agree.
It is the Telestial/Babylonian mindset which informs much of this debate.
Nearly 200 years on and we've learned nothing. Joseph would turn in his grave.
You are neglecting and omitting an important part of your Priesthood responsibility, as set for and given to us by the word of God. You do so due I suppose to your emasculated environment, where the subjects live as sheep, and not citizens.
I guess that's why the gospel was restored where it was restored, in a free country, to the extent that our freedom still exists. Because when socialism/communism take over they destroy and prohibit religion. It competes with the sovereignty and sanctity of government. Where government is the only god that you are allowed.
In the United States we actually believe that our God is a higher authority than the government, not the other way around. Perhaps in your country you are not allowed to believe that, based on the Monarchy being the supreme power and all, even as that power has now mostly been transferred to the government.
So, like Silver posts, your "guilt trip" just might be more applicable to you.
dc
Post by Robin Hood »
Yes, I believe he probably was, just like the rest of us.larsenb wrote: ↑November 18th, 2017, 10:05 amJoseph used a gun to shoot back at the mobbers coming up the stairs for him and his companions in the Carthage Jail. As I recall, he actually shot one or more of them.Robin Hood wrote: ↑November 18th, 2017, 5:02 amAbsolutely agree.
It is the Telestial/Babylonian mindset which informs much of this debate.
Nearly 200 years on and we've learned nothing. Joseph would turn in his grave.
Was Joseph trapped in a "Telestial/Babylonian" mindset when he did this??
Post by Robin Hood »
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