Does a Church Have Obligations to Its Converts?

[silk]

I think when we discuss churches (especially the LDS one), we often think of the obligations of members -- to support leaders, to serve in callings, to pay tithing, etc.

But does a church (let's use a the simple definition of "people united by the same religious beliefs") have any obligations to those it baptizes?

Let's do an example of a Buddhist who learns of Jesus Christ. She starts coming to an evangelical church where she learns more about the gospel and decides she wants to be baptized. However, she's not sure how her family will take it, so she searches online. She finds a way to be baptized that seems ideal because (1) it's confidential, (2) it claims to connect her with someone authorized to baptize her, and (3) it doesn't make her part of any church or organization. And the best part, is that all she has to do is repent and follow Christ's example -- without any confessions or conformity to anything but the doctrine of Christ (repent, believe in Christ, be baptized). So she gets baptized in this way and goes on with her life, never having further contact with that man.

So my question again is, does the person who baptized her, and the church from which he received his authority, have any further obligation to this woman?

Here are a few questions to start the thought process.

1. Is it acceptable for him to baptize her and then just leave her on her own?
2. If the man's church knows about the Gospel Restoration, or the Book of Mormon, or higher temple ordinances, do they have any requirement to teach the woman about them?
3. Is it acceptable for her never to partake of the sacrament, since she has no priesthood and will never associate with members of that church?
4. If the convert is a man, he will never have the opportunity to hold the priesthood, because he was never taught about it. Do you think that the Lord is okay with that?

[LukeAir2008]

Jesus told the Senior Apostle, Peter, to feed my lambs, feed my sheep, feed my sheep. (John 21) He didn’t say lure them in with a blade of grass and then forget about them.

So in Christ’s authorized Church, there is the requirement, after baptism, for the leaders of the Church to continue to oversee and feed the flock.

I also listen to the more credible, sincere, Christian pastors and leaders like John MacArthur and Paul Washer. They also discuss the requirement to continue to watch over and feed the flock after ‘being saved’.

[gardener4life]

There was a talk not to long ago... that everyone needs a friend, a responsibility, and nurturing by correct inspiration, word of God, etc. And then also there was one talk awhile ago too to treat everyone like they are beautiful. Then there was a conference talk to some guy said, 'love one another' and feed my sheep' and love God. That guy was persecuted heavily...but that was technically a conference talk in a way.

The problem you have is that everyone needs someone to care about them. And not many actually get that. That's what's sad about being in a Telestial kingdom. There's a shortage of people doing what's right here.

[mes5464]

Yes, the church has an obligation to the convert/member after baptism.

D&C says the church is to track all the members

Doctrine and Covenants 20:82

82 With a list of the names of the several members uniting themselves with the church since the last conference; or send by the hand of some priest; so that a regular list of all the names of the whole church may be kept in a book by one of the elders, whomsoever the other elders shall appoint from time to time;

D&C also says that the priesthood will home teach, watch over, and strengthen

51 And visit the house of each member, exhorting them to pray vocally and in secret and attend to all family duties.

52 In all these duties the priest is to assist the elder if occasion requires.

53 The teacher’s duty is to watch over the church always, and be with and strengthen them;

54 And see that there is no iniquity in the church, neither hardness with each other, neither lying, backbiting, nor evil speaking;

55 And see that the church meet together often, and also see that all the members do their duty.

[silk]

I wish my opening scenario was hypothetical, but it's actually the way Denver Snuffer's remnant movement offers baptism.

Here are some quotes from their website:

The purpose of this site is to connect you with someone who has authority from Jesus Christ to perform the ordinance of baptism. There may be someone in your area who can help you, or there may be someone traveling through your area in the near future. Whatever the situation, we want to help you get baptized. You can place your baptism request here and it will be made available privately to those who can provide baptism.

This baptism does not make you, or require you to become, a member of any organized church or religion, but is only a sign between you and God that you sincerely believe in Jesus Christ, ​and wish to follow Him.

This site does not retain information nor does it track baptisms. Its only purpose is to connect people and aid in completing the ordinance. Once the ordinance is completed, data is removed from this directory.

ALL are invited to come unto Christ through baptism. There is no formal creed, catechism or confession required. By being baptized, you are not joining any organization that must approve you. Your qualification is between you and the Lord.

The Doctrine of Christ requires that you believe in Christ and repent of your sins. You therefore must be old enough to understand Christ’s Doctrine, believe in Him, and repent. (At least 8 years old.) If you meet these criteria and desire baptism, you are invited to receive it.

When I first read this, I was struck by the way that the remnant movement abandons new converts. They don't teach them about their beliefs beyond faith in Jesus Christ, repentance, and baptism. As far as I can tell, they don't even teach about the laying on of hands for the gift of the Holy Ghost. Once the baptism takes place, that's it. Converts are left on their own. And if they do attend a fellowship, what do you think they will find? People who already have a large set of shared beliefs about the restoration, the Book of Mormon, and Denver Snuffer. Things the new convert was never taught before accepting their baptism.

[brianj]

I believe that almost every single member makes themselves liars when they go to church. I have never seen an LDS meetinghouse that doesn't have a sign out front saying "visitors welcome," but by ignoring anybody who isn't already in their group or actively trying to get the person's attention church members make themselves into liars by professing to welcome visitors but ignoring those visitors.

I have visited other churches, particularly in the South, and it seems like half the congregation wants to be your friend. I have visited LDS wards and spent over three hours in a building without anybody introducing themselves or speaking to me individually.

As an organization, I don't believe the church has an obligation toward us. But as a group of people we have a sacred responsibility to one another that is mostly disregarded by members of the group.

[silk]

I believe that almost every single member makes themselves liars when they go to church. I have never seen an LDS meetinghouse that doesn't have a sign out front saying "visitors welcome," but by ignoring anybody who isn't already in their group or actively trying to get the person's attention church members make themselves into liars by professing to welcome visitors but ignoring those visitors.

I have visited other churches, particularly in the South, and it seems like half the congregation wants to be your friend. I have visited LDS wards and spent over three hours in a building without anybody introducing themselves or speaking to me individually.

As an organization, I don't believe the church has an obligation toward us. But as a group of people we have a sacred responsibility to one another that is mostly disregarded by members of the group.

Sadly, I am one of those who falls short in that area. In real life I tend to be very shy and nervous about beginning a conversation with a complete stranger. When I try to start, I find myself unable to think of anything to say, and so the conversation usually ends almost before it begins. It is one of those things that I am striving to overcome with the help of the Lord, but it's extremely difficult. I find that my children do a much better job with it, and that I also had no trouble with it as a child. Maybe that's one of those ways in which we're supposed to become like (or return to be like) a child?

[David13]

I believe that almost every single member makes themselves liars when they go to church. I have never seen an LDS meetinghouse that doesn't have a sign out front saying "visitors welcome," but by ignoring anybody who isn't already in their group or actively trying to get the person's attention church members make themselves into liars by professing to welcome visitors but ignoring those visitors.

I have visited other churches, particularly in the South, and it seems like half the congregation wants to be your friend. I have visited LDS wards and spent over three hours in a building without anybody introducing themselves or speaking to me individually.

As an organization, I don't believe the church has an obligation toward us. But as a group of people we have a sacred responsibility to one another that is mostly disregarded by members of the group.

My experience has been just the opposite.
I have found that visiting any chapel of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints the people are very welcoming and do talk to me. In fact, I make it impossible for them not to talk to me, as I approach all of them smiling and put my hand out. They always respond. Even if I don't to that they look and smile.
Of course, I have found they frequently think I am a life long member, even tho' I've only been a member for 2 1/2 years. They are usually surprised when I inform them of that.
Also, as you go to the meetings, they all want you to stand, state your name, and where you are visiting from. (Usually 2 of 3 meetings)

I know the southerners are very friendly, if you also seem friendly. People generally respond in kind.

However, some churches, and it may be Scientology, I'll just use them as an example. They 'love bomb'.* They need and want new members so when someone comes in the door, they are all "we're so glad you are here' love bombing, just to get them to keep coming back. That is not good either.

I believe all missionaries are different. Some will go after a new investigator (recruit) tenaciously and long term. Others are more casual and are hoping of believing that a new recruit or investigator that is truly interested will come back on their own.

I know in my first ward there were those who basically never spoke to me in 2 years. If I spoke to them they just grumbled, but everyone said they were like that with everyone. Just grumpy souls, you might say.

One of the things you have to do is show up with a smile on your face. Regularly. Not just once and then expect they will welcome you with a silver spoon on a silver platter.

If it's something you want, go for it openly. If it's not something you want, well, then, what, tv, youtube, a walk in the park, etc. ...

dc

That 'love bombing' stuff is an indication of a 'cult'. Usually they are the ones when you become a member, then if you try to get out, they won't let you out. I don't know if it's in the thread about cults here on this forum or not, but that's usually an indication that if you get in, you are going to have a hard time getting out, should you later choose to get out.

Since The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints has of late been accused of being a cult, it probably is good that they indicate to you that your are free to come and go to the church as you please. It dispels the "cult" label.

[David13]

I believe that almost every single member makes themselves liars when they go to church. I have never seen an LDS meetinghouse that doesn't have a sign out front saying "visitors welcome," but by ignoring anybody who isn't already in their group or actively trying to get the person's attention church members make themselves into liars by professing to welcome visitors but ignoring those visitors.

I have visited other churches, particularly in the South, and it seems like half the congregation wants to be your friend. I have visited LDS wards and spent over three hours in a building without anybody introducing themselves or speaking to me individually.

As an organization, I don't believe the church has an obligation toward us. But as a group of people we have a sacred responsibility to one another that is mostly disregarded by members of the group.

Sadly, I am one of those who falls short in that area. In real life I tend to be very shy and nervous about beginning a conversation with a complete stranger. When I try to start, I find myself unable to think of anything to say, and so the conversation usually ends almost before it begins. It is one of those things that I am striving to overcome with the help of the Lord, but it's extremely difficult. I find that my children do a much better job with it, and that I also had no trouble with it as a child. Maybe that's one of those ways in which we're supposed to become like (or return to be like) a child?

Yes, that child like friendliness. What to say? Hello, are you visiting? Where from? Etc. I'm usually not able to go beyond that very much either. A lot of them like that with me would just direct me to the next meeting, accompany me to the meeting room, sit by me, something like that. Tell about the area, it's known as small talk. Any small thing to say.
dc

Oh, a good one, the children usually use, ... "What's your name?" Then you should tell them your name.

The idea is to say something. To just open your mouth and say something. After all we are men now, not boys. Or women if you are.

[silk]

If that's really all it takes to make someone feel welcome, then I at least try. Then I usually direct them to their meetings while I go off to Primary. Maybe that's part of the problem -- I've been in Primary so long that I do much better with the children than the adults. But I know that I can do better. Why? Because I want to feel love toward them ... friendliness ... true welcome that they can feel. And instead I'm just a bundle of nerves. It's a weakness that I'm trying to turn into strength, but it's slow going.

[brianj]

Sadly, I am one of those who falls short in that area. In real life I tend to be very shy and nervous about beginning a conversation with a complete stranger. When I try to start, I find myself unable to think of anything to say, and so the conversation usually ends almost before it begins. It is one of those things that I am striving to overcome with the help of the Lord, but it's extremely difficult. I find that my children do a much better job with it, and that I also had no trouble with it as a child. Maybe that's one of those ways in which we're supposed to become like (or return to be like) a child?

It's not hard. I start with: "Hi. I'm Brian, and I don't think I've seen you here before."
The response typically includes one of three things: "I'm new here," "I'm just visiting," or "I've been here for (a period if time so long that you should have noticed)."
Potential responses: "I haven't been involved with that auxiliary. How do you like it?" "Where did you come from?" "What brought you here?" Each of these questions is open ended and gets the person talking. And just like that you've started a conversation.

Once I walked up to someone I thought I'd seen before but knew I hadn't seen in any of my ward's meetings, asking if he was visiting. He was. What brought him there? His calling. What calling? Stake president. That's my most entertaining story, but I have plenty of others.

[silk]

Thanks for the responses on starting conversations. They are good ideas and I will use them in my efforts. I feel humbled that something so easy when I was younger has become more difficult. One of the problems I have is not wanting to cause offense. There are so many stories about people leaving the church because they became offended, and I've worried that I might become one of those offenders. Unfortunately, not talking to people and helping them to feel welcome can cause the same problem! Sometimes I feel like the "Calvin and Hobbes" comic where he's in bed on a school morning near Christmas. His mother tells him to get up, and he tells her he's going to stay in bed so he won't do anything to offend Santa. Her response is that not obeying your mother is bad too. As he's getting dressed, he says, "That darn Santa has got me every way I turn."

[David13]

Sadly, I am one of those who falls short in that area. In real life I tend to be very shy and nervous about beginning a conversation with a complete stranger. When I try to start, I find myself unable to think of anything to say, and so the conversation usually ends almost before it begins. It is one of those things that I am striving to overcome with the help of the Lord, but it's extremely difficult. I find that my children do a much better job with it, and that I also had no trouble with it as a child. Maybe that's one of those ways in which we're supposed to become like (or return to be like) a child?

It's not hard. I start with: "Hi. I'm Brian, and I don't think I've seen you here before."
The response typically includes one of three things: "I'm new here," "I'm just visiting," or "I've been here for (a period if time so long that you should have noticed)."
Potential responses: "I haven't been involved with that auxiliary. How do you like it?" "Where did you come from?" "What brought you here?" Each of these questions is open ended and gets the person talking. And just like that you've started a conversation.

Once I walked up to someone I thought I'd seen before but knew I hadn't seen in any of my ward's meetings, asking if he was visiting. He was. What brought him there? His calling. What calling? Stake president. That's my most entertaining story, but I have plenty of others.

I'm new in my new ward (4 months now), twice I have answered the question "What brought you to (the new town, think of the new town)?"
A motorcycle, a car, and a truck, says I. Which is true.
They also ask, how do you like it here (etc). I love it, says I. But that's why I moved here. (To like it, that is).
dc

[silk]

David13, I really appreciate that attitude of choosing to like a place. It's definitely a choice, since there is good and bad in any place/climate/school/ward you can imagine.

I appreciate this thread immensely. If others have further advice, please feel free to add to what's here!

I've realized that the Lord has been helping me to speak to others; I just didn't have eyes to see it before. In the past week I've had two opportunities to have a conversation with a stranger. One was last week at church, and the other in a public place when someone saw me reading the Book of Mormon. (The other person was LDS as well, so we had something in common immediately.) Now I've been enlightened by knowledgeable and friendly people here. Maybe someday I'll be approaching random strangers with confidence (instead of just feigned confidence like now).

[silk]

Sadly, I am one of those who falls short in that area. In real life I tend to be very shy and nervous about beginning a conversation with a complete stranger. When I try to start, I find myself unable to think of anything to say, and so the conversation usually ends almost before it begins. It is one of those things that I am striving to overcome with the help of the Lord, but it's extremely difficult. I find that my children do a much better job with it, and that I also had no trouble with it as a child. Maybe that's one of those ways in which we're supposed to become like (or return to be like) a child?

It's not hard. I start with: "Hi. I'm Brian, and I don't think I've seen you here before."
The response typically includes one of three things: "I'm new here," "I'm just visiting," or "I've been here for (a period if time so long that you should have noticed)."
Potential responses: "I haven't been involved with that auxiliary. How do you like it?" "Where did you come from?" "What brought you here?" Each of these questions is open ended and gets the person talking. And just like that you've started a conversation.

Once I walked up to someone I thought I'd seen before but knew I hadn't seen in any of my ward's meetings, asking if he was visiting. He was. What brought him there? His calling. What calling? Stake president. That's my most entertaining story, but I have plenty of others.

brianj,

Just wanted to let you know that your efforts were fruitful. Yesterday I found myself sitting in a pew behind people who were new to me. I looked at them, leaned forward, sat back, and looked at them again. I knew that I should welcome them to the ward. But then I thought that maybe I would just wait until another week when I felt braver. After all, they looked happy and didn't need a total stranger getting involved, right? Plus, my mind blanked and I couldn't think of anything to say.

Then through my head went these words -- "Hi. I'm Brian, and I don't think I've seen you here before." I couldn't help but smile as I forced myself to catch the attention of the matriarch, introduce myself, and welcome them to the ward. They were visiting family for a missionary homecoming, so they didn't need any help, but I sat back feeling grateful. For most people, it wouldn't have been a big deal, but for me it meant a lot.

So thanks again for your advice.

[JohnnyL]

I believe that almost every single member makes themselves liars when they go to church. I have never seen an LDS meetinghouse that doesn't have a sign out front saying "visitors welcome," but by ignoring anybody who isn't already in their group or actively trying to get the person's attention church members make themselves into liars by professing to welcome visitors but ignoring those visitors.

I have visited other churches, particularly in the South, and it seems like half the congregation wants to be your friend. I have visited LDS wards and spent over three hours in a building without anybody introducing themselves or speaking to me individually.

As an organization, I don't believe the church has an obligation toward us. But as a group of people we have a sacred responsibility to one another that is mostly disregarded by members of the group.

Three hours? I went three months. Actually, more like 1.5 years.
It means, "You are welcome to come in," not "We will welcome you."

[David13]

I believe that almost every single member makes themselves liars when they go to church. I have never seen an LDS meetinghouse that doesn't have a sign out front saying "visitors welcome," but by ignoring anybody who isn't already in their group or actively trying to get the person's attention church members make themselves into liars by professing to welcome visitors but ignoring those visitors.

I have visited other churches, particularly in the South, and it seems like half the congregation wants to be your friend. I have visited LDS wards and spent over three hours in a building without anybody introducing themselves or speaking to me individually.

As an organization, I don't believe the church has an obligation toward us. But as a group of people we have a sacred responsibility to one another that is mostly disregarded by members of the group.

Three hours? I went three months. Actually, more like 1.5 years.
It means, "You are welcome to come in," not "We will welcome you."

There is nothing that prevents you from going into any meeting house in the church,, walking up to the first person you see, smiling, putting out your hand, and saying, "hello, I'm a visitor here. I'm a member (not a member) of the church. I'm visiting from ... etc"
And if the first person runs away without saying anything, go on to the next person.
But if you sort of try to blend into the wall ...
The meeting houses I have been in, I constantly see people 'fellowshipping' with others, and usually if I see a new person, there are those falling all over them to welcome them, etc.
dc

You have to be willing to "extend yourself" ...

[brianj]

Sadly, I am one of those who falls short in that area. In real life I tend to be very shy and nervous about beginning a conversation with a complete stranger. When I try to start, I find myself unable to think of anything to say, and so the conversation usually ends almost before it begins. It is one of those things that I am striving to overcome with the help of the Lord, but it's extremely difficult. I find that my children do a much better job with it, and that I also had no trouble with it as a child. Maybe that's one of those ways in which we're supposed to become like (or return to be like) a child?

It's not hard. I start with: "Hi. I'm Brian, and I don't think I've seen you here before."
The response typically includes one of three things: "I'm new here," "I'm just visiting," or "I've been here for (a period if time so long that you should have noticed)."
Potential responses: "I haven't been involved with that auxiliary. How do you like it?" "Where did you come from?" "What brought you here?" Each of these questions is open ended and gets the person talking. And just like that you've started a conversation.

Once I walked up to someone I thought I'd seen before but knew I hadn't seen in any of my ward's meetings, asking if he was visiting. He was. What brought him there? His calling. What calling? Stake president. That's my most entertaining story, but I have plenty of others.

brianj,

Just wanted to let you know that your efforts were fruitful. Yesterday I found myself sitting in a pew behind people who were new to me. I looked at them, leaned forward, sat back, and looked at them again. I knew that I should welcome them to the ward. But then I thought that maybe I would just wait until another week when I felt braver. After all, they looked happy and didn't need a total stranger getting involved, right? Plus, my mind blanked and I couldn't think of anything to say.

Then through my head went these words -- "Hi. I'm Brian, and I don't think I've seen you here before." I couldn't help but smile as I forced myself to catch the attention of the matriarch, introduce myself, and welcome them to the ward. They were visiting family for a missionary homecoming, so they didn't need any help, but I sat back feeling grateful. For most people, it wouldn't have been a big deal, but for me it meant a lot.

So thanks again for your advice.

Thank you so much! You made my day so much better!

This last Sunday I saw a young woman, maybe 18 or 20, whom I have noticed before but don't know, sitting alone and working on a primary lesson during sacrament meeting. But at times I noticed she looked weighed down. At the end of the meeting I momentarily excused myself from the people who invited me to sit with them, introduced myself, mentioned that she looked like she was having a hard time, and asked how she was doing.
She had a difficult week and appreciated the attention. She lives with her brother who wasn't feeling well and didn't come that day. I told her that it's difficult to be alone in such a family oriented church and that if she's alone I want her to sit with me.

If you think introducing yourself to someone visiting felt good, wait until you introduce yourself to someone who just moved in and doesn't know anybody else. it feels great! So does inviting someone to not sit alone, and it means so much to those who do sit alone.

[silk]

Sadly, I am one of those who falls short in that area. In real life I tend to be very shy and nervous about beginning a conversation with a complete stranger. When I try to start, I find myself unable to think of anything to say, and so the conversation usually ends almost before it begins. It is one of those things that I am striving to overcome with the help of the Lord, but it's extremely difficult. I find that my children do a much better job with it, and that I also had no trouble with it as a child. Maybe that's one of those ways in which we're supposed to become like (or return to be like) a child?

It's not hard. I start with: "Hi. I'm Brian, and I don't think I've seen you here before."
The response typically includes one of three things: "I'm new here," "I'm just visiting," or "I've been here for (a period if time so long that you should have noticed)."
Potential responses: "I haven't been involved with that auxiliary. How do you like it?" "Where did you come from?" "What brought you here?" Each of these questions is open ended and gets the person talking. And just like that you've started a conversation.

Once I walked up to someone I thought I'd seen before but knew I hadn't seen in any of my ward's meetings, asking if he was visiting. He was. What brought him there? His calling. What calling? Stake president. That's my most entertaining story, but I have plenty of others.

brianj,

Just wanted to let you know that your efforts were fruitful. Yesterday I found myself sitting in a pew behind people who were new to me. I looked at them, leaned forward, sat back, and looked at them again. I knew that I should welcome them to the ward. But then I thought that maybe I would just wait until another week when I felt braver. After all, they looked happy and didn't need a total stranger getting involved, right? Plus, my mind blanked and I couldn't think of anything to say.

Then through my head went these words -- "Hi. I'm Brian, and I don't think I've seen you here before." I couldn't help but smile as I forced myself to catch the attention of the matriarch, introduce myself, and welcome them to the ward. They were visiting family for a missionary homecoming, so they didn't need any help, but I sat back feeling grateful. For most people, it wouldn't have been a big deal, but for me it meant a lot.

So thanks again for your advice.

Thank you so much! You made my day so much better!

This last Sunday I saw a young woman, maybe 18 or 20, whom I have noticed before but don't know, sitting alone and working on a primary lesson during sacrament meeting. But at times I noticed she looked weighed down. At the end of the meeting I momentarily excused myself from the people who invited me to sit with them, introduced myself, mentioned that she looked like she was having a hard time, and asked how she was doing.
She had a difficult week and appreciated the attention. She lives with her brother who wasn't feeling well and didn't come that day. I told her that it's difficult to be alone in such a family oriented church and that if she's alone I want her to sit with me.

If you think introducing yourself to someone visiting felt good, wait until you introduce yourself to someone who just moved in and doesn't know anybody else. it feels great! So does inviting someone to not sit alone, and it means so much to those who do sit alone.

*big, dramatic sigh*

There you go, raising the bar again!

Actually, I look forward to that too, partially because I can tell that it brings a lot of joy into your life. Thank you for sharing and being an example. Hopefully by stretching my own comfort zone, I can help others who are already out of theirs.

[JohnnyL]

I believe that almost every single member makes themselves liars when they go to church. I have never seen an LDS meetinghouse that doesn't have a sign out front saying "visitors welcome," but by ignoring anybody who isn't already in their group or actively trying to get the person's attention church members make themselves into liars by professing to welcome visitors but ignoring those visitors.

I have visited other churches, particularly in the South, and it seems like half the congregation wants to be your friend. I have visited LDS wards and spent over three hours in a building without anybody introducing themselves or speaking to me individually.

As an organization, I don't believe the church has an obligation toward us. But as a group of people we have a sacred responsibility to one another that is mostly disregarded by members of the group.

Three hours? I went three months. Actually, more like 1.5 years.
It means, "You are welcome to come in," not "We will welcome you."

There is nothing that prevents you from going into any meeting house in the church,, walking up to the first person you see, smiling, putting out your hand, and saying, "hello, I'm a visitor here. I'm a member (not a member) of the church. I'm visiting from ... etc"
And if the first person runs away without saying anything, go on to the next person.
But if you sort of try to blend into the wall ...
The meeting houses I have been in, I constantly see people 'fellowshipping' with others, and usually if I see a new person, there are those falling all over them to welcome them, etc.
dc

You have to be willing to "extend yourself" ...

Been there, did that.

Thanks for the judgment, though. Makes me feel at home.

I lived with an EQ president for a semester. He was cold and unfriendly the entire time, and it set the tone for some others. He later apologized for acting that way--it was nothing I had done, in fact, I had been a great guy--it was just that I looked like someone who had been mean to him before. See, there are some times and some places where no matter what you do, people just aren't going to talk to you, welcome you, etc.

There are sometimes when this means, "This ward really needs you." There are other times when this means, "This is just temporary, this is NOT the right place." Whichever, you can always try to do good. Remember that, figure it out, and relax a little.

[David13]

I believe that almost every single member makes themselves liars when they go to church. I have never seen an LDS meetinghouse that doesn't have a sign out front saying "visitors welcome," but by ignoring anybody who isn't already in their group or actively trying to get the person's attention church members make themselves into liars by professing to welcome visitors but ignoring those visitors.

I have visited other churches, particularly in the South, and it seems like half the congregation wants to be your friend. I have visited LDS wards and spent over three hours in a building without anybody introducing themselves or speaking to me individually.

As an organization, I don't believe the church has an obligation toward us. But as a group of people we have a sacred responsibility to one another that is mostly disregarded by members of the group.

Three hours? I went three months. Actually, more like 1.5 years.
It means, "You are welcome to come in," not "We will welcome you."

There is nothing that prevents you from going into any meeting house in the church,, walking up to the first person you see, smiling, putting out your hand, and saying, "hello, I'm a visitor here. I'm a member (not a member) of the church. I'm visiting from ... etc"
And if the first person runs away without saying anything, go on to the next person.
But if you sort of try to blend into the wall ...
The meeting houses I have been in, I constantly see people 'fellowshipping' with others, and usually if I see a new person, there are those falling all over them to welcome them, etc.
dc

You have to be willing to "extend yourself" ...

Been there, did that.

Thanks for the judgment, though. Makes me feel at home.

I lived with an EQ president for a semester. He was cold and unfriendly the entire time, and it set the tone for some others. He later apologized for acting that way--it was nothing I had done, in fact, I had been a great guy--it was just that I looked like someone who had been mean to him before. See, there are some times and some places where no matter what you do, people just aren't going to talk to you, welcome you, etc.

There are sometimes when this means, "This ward really needs you." There are other times when this means, "This is just temporary, this is NOT the right place." Whichever, you can always try to do good. Remember that, figure it out, and relax a little.

Yeah, that's what I said (posted).

Now what, you are judging me? Kind of ironic, isn't it?

I was not "judging" you. I was offering suggestions to you as to how to overcome your negative judgment of church members.

So what you should remember, figure out, and relax over is that any reaction you get in a meeting house may have nothing to do with you.

And that is why, when I gave you suggestions, I said (posted) if the first one you introduce yourself to runs away, go to the next one.

dc

[JohnnyL]

The Book of Mormon shows it does (Alma the elder, sons of Mosiah, Moroni 6, etc.).

Then there's the eunuch who's baptized and leaves.

I guess if you can, you should.

[brianj]

There is nothing that prevents you from going into any meeting house in the church,, walking up to the first person you see, smiling, putting out your hand, and saying, "hello, I'm a visitor here. I'm a member (not a member) of the church. I'm visiting from ... etc"
And if the first person runs away without saying anything, go on to the next person.
But if you sort of try to blend into the wall ...
The meeting houses I have been in, I constantly see people 'fellowshipping' with others, and usually if I see a new person, there are those falling all over them to welcome them, etc.
dc

You have to be willing to "extend yourself" ...

You're right. Shyness is nothing. Social anxiety is nothing. Having a low self esteem because of bullying is nothing. And if you suffer from shyness, anxiety, or something else that makes it difficult for you to extend yourself then shut up. It's your problem and your fault.

Then again, maybe an individual doesn't bear sole responsibility for how they are treated at church. No, that would mean that congregants who ignore new people unless those people extend themselves are doing something wrong. We can't suggest people are doing something wrong.

[David13]

There is nothing that prevents you from going into any meeting house in the church,, walking up to the first person you see, smiling, putting out your hand, and saying, "hello, I'm a visitor here. I'm a member (not a member) of the church. I'm visiting from ... etc"
And if the first person runs away without saying anything, go on to the next person.
But if you sort of try to blend into the wall ...
The meeting houses I have been in, I constantly see people 'fellowshipping' with others, and usually if I see a new person, there are those falling all over them to welcome them, etc.
dc

You have to be willing to "extend yourself" ...

You're right. Shyness is nothing. Social anxiety is nothing. Having a low self esteem because of bullying is nothing. And if you suffer from shyness, anxiety, or something else that makes it difficult for you to extend yourself then shut up. It's your problem and your fault.

Then again, maybe an individual doesn't bear sole responsibility for how they are treated at church. No, that would mean that congregants who ignore new people unless those people extend themselves are doing something wrong. We can't suggest people are doing something wrong.

With a hostile attitude do you think people want to talk to you? Or should have to?
dc

[brianj]

There is nothing that prevents you from going into any meeting house in the church,, walking up to the first person you see, smiling, putting out your hand, and saying, "hello, I'm a visitor here. I'm a member (not a member) of the church. I'm visiting from ... etc"
And if the first person runs away without saying anything, go on to the next person.
But if you sort of try to blend into the wall ...
The meeting houses I have been in, I constantly see people 'fellowshipping' with others, and usually if I see a new person, there are those falling all over them to welcome them, etc.
dc

You have to be willing to "extend yourself" ...

You're right. Shyness is nothing. Social anxiety is nothing. Having a low self esteem because of bullying is nothing. And if you suffer from shyness, anxiety, or something else that makes it difficult for you to extend yourself then shut up. It's your problem and your fault.

Then again, maybe an individual doesn't bear sole responsibility for how they are treated at church. No, that would mean that congregants who ignore new people unless those people extend themselves are doing something wrong. We can't suggest people are doing something wrong.

With a hostile attitude do you think people want to talk to you? Or should have to?
dc

I will not hesitate to speak firmly when I believe that I am in the right and I am in a position where it is appropriate. If I see ward members ignoring a visitor, I will speak about it when I have the opportunity to speak in sacrament meeting or teach a lesson. When I am in a lesson (or on a web forum) and someone says that it's 100% a shy person's fault they aren't feeling welcome because they are being shy, I speak up. But when I'm new to a ward or visiting, not so much.

Instead of trying to rebut you myself, I will quote Elder M. Russell Ballard of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles, in his October 1988 General Conference address:

Recently, several of the Brethren were discussing how we accept and welcome newcomers. Two of them shared experiences with me.

Elder Devere Harris of the First Quorum of the Seventy told me of a recent visit he made to a long-established ward in Utah. He said, “I entered there as a stranger and tried every way that I knew to strike up a conversation, or to say hello, or to be kind, or to be greeted, or to be known. Everyone ignored me; nobody would speak to me—no one!

“Finally, a man recognized me. He said, ‘Oh, Elder Harris.’ The bishop turned around and said, ‘What did you say?’ The brother said, ‘This is Elder Harris of the First Quorum of the Seventy.’

“Well, things changed. It wasn’t long before I was asked to sit on the stand; they wondered if I wouldn’t like to bear my testimony. After the meeting, many people shook my hand. As I left, I thought, ‘What a tragedy! A gray-haired man who was unknown walks into a meeting. Nobody recognizes him, nobody says hello, nobody is kind. Then, because of his Church position, everybody changes and wants to be friendly.’”

The second story involves two sisters who live two thousand miles from each other. Each was taught the missionary discussions by the full-time missionaries. Each felt the confirming witness of the Spirit and was baptized. Both were single adults in their early twenties. One sister attended church meetings, met the bishop, developed friendships with members who invited her into their homes. Ward members made her feel welcome and wanted. She was given a Church calling immediately after her baptism, and she continued to learn and live gospel principles while associating with ward and stake members. She participated continually, serving in various ward, stake, and general Church callings. In time, she married in the temple, and she maintains her standing as a member in full fellowship.

The other sister, after receiving the witness of the Spirit, never met her bishop personally. She received no visits by home teachers or visiting teachers and was given no Church calling. For several weeks she attended Sunday ward meetings, but she was mostly ignored. In due course, the missionaries who had taught her left the area, and her interest in the gospel waned without the support of members. She was not “remembered and nourished.” (Moro. 6:4.) Soon she stopped attending church services, resumed her old friendships and life-style, and married a nonmember. Today she is a fine, productive, contributing citizen in her community and a loving, conscientious wife and mother. But she does not enjoy the rich blessings that come from full fellowship in the Church.

Will you be quick to condemn Elder Harris for not being more friendly, for not trying harder in his effort to strike up a conversation? Will you condemn the second sister because she didn't set an appointment to see her Bishop (something I didn't even know you did until I was on my mission), because she didn't go hang out at her home and visiting teachers' homes so they would have to teach her?

I will not condemn these people. And I don't know how you (if you do) or anybody else can believe that they bear absolutely no responsibility to welcome new people, that new people bear sole responsibility for approaching others and making themselves welcome.