‘Andi Mack’ Character To Come Out As Gay: A Disney Channel First

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kittycat51
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‘Andi Mack’ Character To Come Out As Gay: A Disney Channel First

Postby kittycat51 » Fri Oct 27, 2017 12:06 pm

Just wondering what other people's opinion is on this. Personally my kids were never watcher's of the Disney channel. If they were now, I would put a parental block on the station.

http://deadline.com/2017/10/disney-chan ... 202194584/

The story arc will mark the channel’s first depiction of a coming-out journey. The character – 13-year-old Cyrus Goodman, played by 15-year-old Joshua Rush – will begin his self-discovery in this Friday’s second season one-hour premiere episode.

“Andi Mack is a story about ‘tweens’ figuring out who they are,” said Disney Channel in a statement. “(Creator) Terri Minsky, the cast and everyone involved in the show takes great care in ensuring that it’s appropriate for all audiences and sends a powerful message about inclusion and respect for humanity.”

The Walt Disney Co. released a general statement on stories and characters, which reads, in part, “Disney remains committed to continuing to create characters that are accessible and relatable to all children.” (Read that entire statement below.)

The coming-of-age series, starring Peyton Elizabeth Lee as the 13-year-old title character, premiered in March, becoming the top series of the year among girls (median age is 10) and #1 in its time period among all children ages six-14. It holds the top series spot on Disney Channel VOD, Disney Channel’s DisneyNOW app and on Disney Channel UK.

The series, launching on Disney Channels around the world through mid-2018, was created by executive producer Minsky (Lizzie McGuire), and follows Andi as she comes to terms with news that Bex, the girl she thought was her older sister, is actually her mother.

With a realism not always evident on tween-focused programs, Andi Mack follows Andi, her family and her two best friends – Cyrus Goodman and Buffy Driscoll (Sofia Wylie) – as they navigate their lives.

The new season finds Andi hoping that her parents Bex (Lilan Bowden) and Bowie (Trent Garrett) will marry, while she also attempts to hash out her feelings for longtime crush Jonah Beck (Asher Angel).

But it’s another storyline that’s breaking Disney Channel ground: Cyrus begins to realize that he too has feelings for Jonah, a development that begins what a source describes as a journey to self-acceptance.

In the season premiere, Cyrus confides his feelings to a supportive Buffy, a scene intended to provide positive role models for children – and adults – watching.

Subsequent episodes will follow Cyrus’ ongoing story, which will include wrestling with how to tell his new girlfriend Iris.

We hear Minsky and Disney Channel, to ensure the story arc is age-appropriate and respectful, consulted with child development experts and was screened to organizations including GLAAD, PFLAG, The National Campaign to Prevent Teen and Unplanned Pregnancy, and Common Sense Media.

The groups are effusive in their approval of the storyline:

“With more and more young people coming out as LGBTQ, Andi Mack is reflecting the lives and lived experiences of so many LGBTQ youth around the country,” said Sarah Kate Ellis, President and CEO of GLAAD. “Television reflects the real life world and today that includes LGBTQ youth who deserve to see their lives depicted on their favorite shows. Disney has been a leader in LGBTQ inclusion and there are so many young people who will be excited to see Cyrus’ story unfold.”

Jaime M. Grant, Executive Director, PFLAG National, said, “Sharing one’s innermost self can be challenging, and to do so as an adolescent can be particularly so, especially when in the midst of figuring it out for yourself. Coming out requires honest self-reflection, no small amount of bravery, and a safe place with at least one trusted person – a friend, a parent, a teacher – who can hold your confidence…and your heart. Andi Mack’s creative team captures this moment of revelation with such thought, care, and authenticity; it will be a memory moment for some, and a teachable moment for many.”

Said Ginny Ehrlich, CEO, The National Campaign to Prevent Teen and Unplanned Pregnancy: “Starting conversations about trust, love, relationships and family dynamics is easier when a favorite TV show like Andi Mack explores them with humor and heart, and helps viewers figure out how they might handle similar situations. Andi Mack gives young people and their parents, mentors and champions a meaningful way to talk about these topics and the power to decide their futures.”

The second season of Andi Mack premieres Friday, October 27 at 8 pm ET/PT on Disney Channel. Minsky exec-produces along with Michelle Manning. Phil Baker is the co-executive producer, and Horizon Productions is the production company.

Here is the Walt Disney Co. general statement on its stories and characters:


Image
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Re: ‘Andi Mack’ Character To Come Out As Gay: A Disney Channel First

Postby Arenera » Fri Oct 27, 2017 12:11 pm

kittycat51 wrote:
Fri Oct 27, 2017 12:06 pm
Just wondering what other people's opinion is on this. Personally my kids were never watcher's of the Disney channel. If they were now, I would put a parental block on the station.

http://deadline.com/2017/10/disney-chan ... 202194584/

The story arc will mark the channel’s first depiction of a coming-out journey. The character – 13-year-old Cyrus Goodman, played by 15-year-old Joshua Rush – will begin his self-discovery in this Friday’s second season one-hour premiere episode.

“Andi Mack is a story about ‘tweens’ figuring out who they are,” said Disney Channel in a statement. “(Creator) Terri Minsky, the cast and everyone involved in the show takes great care in ensuring that it’s appropriate for all audiences and sends a powerful message about inclusion and respect for humanity.”

The Walt Disney Co. released a general statement on stories and characters, which reads, in part, “Disney remains committed to continuing to create characters that are accessible and relatable to all children.” (Read that entire statement below.)

The coming-of-age series, starring Peyton Elizabeth Lee as the 13-year-old title character, premiered in March, becoming the top series of the year among girls (median age is 10) and #1 in its time period among all children ages six-14. It holds the top series spot on Disney Channel VOD, Disney Channel’s DisneyNOW app and on Disney Channel UK.

The series, launching on Disney Channels around the world through mid-2018, was created by executive producer Minsky (Lizzie McGuire), and follows Andi as she comes to terms with news that Bex, the girl she thought was her older sister, is actually her mother.

With a realism not always evident on tween-focused programs, Andi Mack follows Andi, her family and her two best friends – Cyrus Goodman and Buffy Driscoll (Sofia Wylie) – as they navigate their lives.

The new season finds Andi hoping that her parents Bex (Lilan Bowden) and Bowie (Trent Garrett) will marry, while she also attempts to hash out her feelings for longtime crush Jonah Beck (Asher Angel).

But it’s another storyline that’s breaking Disney Channel ground: Cyrus begins to realize that he too has feelings for Jonah, a development that begins what a source describes as a journey to self-acceptance.

In the season premiere, Cyrus confides his feelings to a supportive Buffy, a scene intended to provide positive role models for children – and adults – watching.

Subsequent episodes will follow Cyrus’ ongoing story, which will include wrestling with how to tell his new girlfriend Iris.

We hear Minsky and Disney Channel, to ensure the story arc is age-appropriate and respectful, consulted with child development experts and was screened to organizations including GLAAD, PFLAG, The National Campaign to Prevent Teen and Unplanned Pregnancy, and Common Sense Media.

The groups are effusive in their approval of the storyline:

“With more and more young people coming out as LGBTQ, Andi Mack is reflecting the lives and lived experiences of so many LGBTQ youth around the country,” said Sarah Kate Ellis, President and CEO of GLAAD. “Television reflects the real life world and today that includes LGBTQ youth who deserve to see their lives depicted on their favorite shows. Disney has been a leader in LGBTQ inclusion and there are so many young people who will be excited to see Cyrus’ story unfold.”

Jaime M. Grant, Executive Director, PFLAG National, said, “Sharing one’s innermost self can be challenging, and to do so as an adolescent can be particularly so, especially when in the midst of figuring it out for yourself. Coming out requires honest self-reflection, no small amount of bravery, and a safe place with at least one trusted person – a friend, a parent, a teacher – who can hold your confidence…and your heart. Andi Mack’s creative team captures this moment of revelation with such thought, care, and authenticity; it will be a memory moment for some, and a teachable moment for many.”

Said Ginny Ehrlich, CEO, The National Campaign to Prevent Teen and Unplanned Pregnancy: “Starting conversations about trust, love, relationships and family dynamics is easier when a favorite TV show like Andi Mack explores them with humor and heart, and helps viewers figure out how they might handle similar situations. Andi Mack gives young people and their parents, mentors and champions a meaningful way to talk about these topics and the power to decide their futures.”

The second season of Andi Mack premieres Friday, October 27 at 8 pm ET/PT on Disney Channel. Minsky exec-produces along with Michelle Manning. Phil Baker is the co-executive producer, and Horizon Productions is the production company.

Here is the Walt Disney Co. general statement on its stories and characters:


Image
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Re: ‘Andi Mack’ Character To Come Out As Gay: A Disney Channel First

Postby Fiannan » Fri Oct 27, 2017 12:26 pm

"One of the penalties for refusing to participate in politics is that you end up being governed by your inferiors."
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Re: ‘Andi Mack’ Character To Come Out As Gay: A Disney Channel First

Postby Tbone » Fri Oct 27, 2017 1:29 pm

You'll all love to know that it's filmed right in Salt Lake City. We've watched the show and despite how completely messed up this poor girl's family life is, it's an enjoyable show. If you've watched any of season 1 and saw Cyrus, it was pretty obvious where his character was headed, though.

My son who's 12 now used to watch a show on Nickelodeon called "The Loud House," which has a gay couple that adopted a son. It's interesting because the adopted kid is very intelligent and loves his two dads but has severe psychological issues and only wants to be at his friend's house and be with his friend's huge family (and the older sister he has a major crush on). I was pleased and surprised that my son stopped watching after he found out about the two dads.

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Re: ‘Andi Mack’ Character To Come Out As Gay: A Disney Channel First

Postby cyclOps » Fri Oct 27, 2017 1:54 pm

Fiannan wrote:
Fri Oct 27, 2017 12:26 pm
And?

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Re: ‘Andi Mack’ Character To Come Out As Gay: A Disney Channel First

Postby Fiannan » Fri Oct 27, 2017 11:57 pm

cyclOps wrote:
Fri Oct 27, 2017 1:54 pm
Fiannan wrote:
Fri Oct 27, 2017 12:26 pm
And?
Mormons have an obsession with Disney which is quite ironic and disturbing.
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Re: ‘Andi Mack’ Character To Come Out As Gay: A Disney Channel First

Postby Dave62 » Sat Oct 28, 2017 1:42 am

The Enemy corrupts anything that is not in Zion eventually. This comes as no surprise.
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Re: ‘Andi Mack’ Character To Come Out As Gay: A Disney Channel First

Postby Daniel2 » Mon Oct 30, 2017 1:20 pm

Arenera wrote:
Fri Oct 27, 2017 12:11 pm
kittycat51 wrote:
Fri Oct 27, 2017 12:06 pm
Just wondering what other people's opinion is on this. Personally my kids were never watcher's of the Disney channel. If they were now, I would put a parental block on the station.

http://deadline.com/2017/10/disney-chan ... 202194584/

The story arc will mark the channel’s first depiction of a coming-out journey. The character – 13-year-old Cyrus Goodman, played by 15-year-old Joshua Rush – will begin his self-discovery in this Friday’s second season one-hour premiere episode.

“Andi Mack is a story about ‘tweens’ figuring out who they are,” said Disney Channel in a statement. “(Creator) Terri Minsky, the cast and everyone involved in the show takes great care in ensuring that it’s appropriate for all audiences and sends a powerful message about inclusion and respect for humanity.”

The Walt Disney Co. released a general statement on stories and characters, which reads, in part, “Disney remains committed to continuing to create characters that are accessible and relatable to all children.” (Read that entire statement below.)

The coming-of-age series, starring Peyton Elizabeth Lee as the 13-year-old title character, premiered in March, becoming the top series of the year among girls (median age is 10) and #1 in its time period among all children ages six-14. It holds the top series spot on Disney Channel VOD, Disney Channel’s DisneyNOW app and on Disney Channel UK.

The series, launching on Disney Channels around the world through mid-2018, was created by executive producer Minsky (Lizzie McGuire), and follows Andi as she comes to terms with news that Bex, the girl she thought was her older sister, is actually her mother.

With a realism not always evident on tween-focused programs, Andi Mack follows Andi, her family and her two best friends – Cyrus Goodman and Buffy Driscoll (Sofia Wylie) – as they navigate their lives.

The new season finds Andi hoping that her parents Bex (Lilan Bowden) and Bowie (Trent Garrett) will marry, while she also attempts to hash out her feelings for longtime crush Jonah Beck (Asher Angel).

But it’s another storyline that’s breaking Disney Channel ground: Cyrus begins to realize that he too has feelings for Jonah, a development that begins what a source describes as a journey to self-acceptance.

In the season premiere, Cyrus confides his feelings to a supportive Buffy, a scene intended to provide positive role models for children – and adults – watching.

Subsequent episodes will follow Cyrus’ ongoing story, which will include wrestling with how to tell his new girlfriend Iris.

We hear Minsky and Disney Channel, to ensure the story arc is age-appropriate and respectful, consulted with child development experts and was screened to organizations including GLAAD, PFLAG, The National Campaign to Prevent Teen and Unplanned Pregnancy, and Common Sense Media.

The groups are effusive in their approval of the storyline:

“With more and more young people coming out as LGBTQ, Andi Mack is reflecting the lives and lived experiences of so many LGBTQ youth around the country,” said Sarah Kate Ellis, President and CEO of GLAAD. “Television reflects the real life world and today that includes LGBTQ youth who deserve to see their lives depicted on their favorite shows. Disney has been a leader in LGBTQ inclusion and there are so many young people who will be excited to see Cyrus’ story unfold.”

Jaime M. Grant, Executive Director, PFLAG National, said, “Sharing one’s innermost self can be challenging, and to do so as an adolescent can be particularly so, especially when in the midst of figuring it out for yourself. Coming out requires honest self-reflection, no small amount of bravery, and a safe place with at least one trusted person – a friend, a parent, a teacher – who can hold your confidence…and your heart. Andi Mack’s creative team captures this moment of revelation with such thought, care, and authenticity; it will be a memory moment for some, and a teachable moment for many.”

Said Ginny Ehrlich, CEO, The National Campaign to Prevent Teen and Unplanned Pregnancy: “Starting conversations about trust, love, relationships and family dynamics is easier when a favorite TV show like Andi Mack explores them with humor and heart, and helps viewers figure out how they might handle similar situations. Andi Mack gives young people and their parents, mentors and champions a meaningful way to talk about these topics and the power to decide their futures.”

The second season of Andi Mack premieres Friday, October 27 at 8 pm ET/PT on Disney Channel. Minsky exec-produces along with Michelle Manning. Phil Baker is the co-executive producer, and Horizon Productions is the production company.

Here is the Walt Disney Co. general statement on its stories and characters:


Image
Aye, ‘tis a sick world we live in.
Parental blocks and allegations of sickness directed at a show that "takes great care in ensuring that it’s appropriate for all audiences and sends a powerful message about inclusion and respect for humanity" and hopes to "Start conversations about trust, love, relationships and family dynamics [and] explores them with humor and heart, and helps viewers figure out how they might handle similar situations"....?

Sequestering kids by encouraging them to "turn off" shows exposing them to the actual existence of real-life LGBT families hardly seems like competent parenting, at least in so far as educating your children how to treat those with different beliefs with respect. How will children of such parents learn the coping skills to interact in a diverse world outside the sequestered confines of their front door?

It's too bad that instead of simply "turning them off," parents don't take advantage of the opportunity to have a discussion on how to show respect for humanity to all of God's children, regardless of whether or not we walk the same path and share the same beliefs.

Hiding one's head in the sand doesn't work for ostriches, and it certainly doesn't help prepare children for real life that awaits them once they graduate from Primary.

I watch a great deal of shows on TV that showcase a number of religious folks and enjoy and find value in them, even when I don't share the same beliefs or values. My husband and I enjoy attending the Mormon Tabernacle Choir's annual Christmas Concert, and don't take offense or feel the need to avoid or shun LDS-themed entertainment, no matter how offensive we find some of the Faith's teachings. It's strange to hear that others refuse to do so in the name of apparent moral superiority.

Kudos to Disney. It's approach and values are refreshing. Wouldn't it be wonderful if the show ultimately featured a gay teen and an LDS teen learning to find common ground and respect one another despite their differences...? Sorta like having an:
aim to bring people together to address teen safety and to express respect and love for all of God’s children. We join our voice with all who come together to foster a community of inclusion in which no one is mistreated because of who they are or what they believe.

We share common beliefs, among them the pricelessness of our youth and the value of families. We earnestly hope this festival and other related efforts can build respectful communication, better understanding and civility as we all learn from each other.
Have compassion for everyone you meet, even if they don't want it. What seems conceit, bad manners, or cynicism is always a sign of things no ears have heard, no eyes have seen. You do not know what wars are going on down where the spirit meets the bone.

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Re: ‘Andi Mack’ Character To Come Out As Gay: A Disney Channel First

Postby kittycat51 » Mon Oct 30, 2017 2:01 pm

Daniel2 wrote:
Mon Oct 30, 2017 1:20 pm
Arenera wrote:
Fri Oct 27, 2017 12:11 pm
kittycat51 wrote:
Fri Oct 27, 2017 12:06 pm
Just wondering what other people's opinion is on this. Personally my kids were never watcher's of the Disney channel. If they were now, I would put a parental block on the station.

http://deadline.com/2017/10/disney-chan ... 202194584/

The story arc will mark the channel’s first depiction of a coming-out journey. The character – 13-year-old Cyrus Goodman, played by 15-year-old Joshua Rush – will begin his self-discovery in this Friday’s second season one-hour premiere episode.

“Andi Mack is a story about ‘tweens’ figuring out who they are,” said Disney Channel in a statement. “(Creator) Terri Minsky, the cast and everyone involved in the show takes great care in ensuring that it’s appropriate for all audiences and sends a powerful message about inclusion and respect for humanity.”

The Walt Disney Co. released a general statement on stories and characters, which reads, in part, “Disney remains committed to continuing to create characters that are accessible and relatable to all children.” (Read that entire statement below.)

The coming-of-age series, starring Peyton Elizabeth Lee as the 13-year-old title character, premiered in March, becoming the top series of the year among girls (median age is 10) and #1 in its time period among all children ages six-14. It holds the top series spot on Disney Channel VOD, Disney Channel’s DisneyNOW app and on Disney Channel UK.

The series, launching on Disney Channels around the world through mid-2018, was created by executive producer Minsky (Lizzie McGuire), and follows Andi as she comes to terms with news that Bex, the girl she thought was her older sister, is actually her mother.

With a realism not always evident on tween-focused programs, Andi Mack follows Andi, her family and her two best friends – Cyrus Goodman and Buffy Driscoll (Sofia Wylie) – as they navigate their lives.

The new season finds Andi hoping that her parents Bex (Lilan Bowden) and Bowie (Trent Garrett) will marry, while she also attempts to hash out her feelings for longtime crush Jonah Beck (Asher Angel).

But it’s another storyline that’s breaking Disney Channel ground: Cyrus begins to realize that he too has feelings for Jonah, a development that begins what a source describes as a journey to self-acceptance.

In the season premiere, Cyrus confides his feelings to a supportive Buffy, a scene intended to provide positive role models for children – and adults – watching.

Subsequent episodes will follow Cyrus’ ongoing story, which will include wrestling with how to tell his new girlfriend Iris.

We hear Minsky and Disney Channel, to ensure the story arc is age-appropriate and respectful, consulted with child development experts and was screened to organizations including GLAAD, PFLAG, The National Campaign to Prevent Teen and Unplanned Pregnancy, and Common Sense Media.

The groups are effusive in their approval of the storyline:

“With more and more young people coming out as LGBTQ, Andi Mack is reflecting the lives and lived experiences of so many LGBTQ youth around the country,” said Sarah Kate Ellis, President and CEO of GLAAD. “Television reflects the real life world and today that includes LGBTQ youth who deserve to see their lives depicted on their favorite shows. Disney has been a leader in LGBTQ inclusion and there are so many young people who will be excited to see Cyrus’ story unfold.”

Jaime M. Grant, Executive Director, PFLAG National, said, “Sharing one’s innermost self can be challenging, and to do so as an adolescent can be particularly so, especially when in the midst of figuring it out for yourself. Coming out requires honest self-reflection, no small amount of bravery, and a safe place with at least one trusted person – a friend, a parent, a teacher – who can hold your confidence…and your heart. Andi Mack’s creative team captures this moment of revelation with such thought, care, and authenticity; it will be a memory moment for some, and a teachable moment for many.”

Said Ginny Ehrlich, CEO, The National Campaign to Prevent Teen and Unplanned Pregnancy: “Starting conversations about trust, love, relationships and family dynamics is easier when a favorite TV show like Andi Mack explores them with humor and heart, and helps viewers figure out how they might handle similar situations. Andi Mack gives young people and their parents, mentors and champions a meaningful way to talk about these topics and the power to decide their futures.”

The second season of Andi Mack premieres Friday, October 27 at 8 pm ET/PT on Disney Channel. Minsky exec-produces along with Michelle Manning. Phil Baker is the co-executive producer, and Horizon Productions is the production company.

Here is the Walt Disney Co. general statement on its stories and characters:


Image
Aye, ‘tis a sick world we live in.
Parental blocks and allegations of sickness directed at a show that "takes great care in ensuring that it’s appropriate for all audiences and sends a powerful message about inclusion and respect for humanity" and hopes to "Start conversations about trust, love, relationships and family dynamics [and] explores them with humor and heart, and helps viewers figure out how they might handle similar situations"....?

Sequestering kids by encouraging them to "turn off" shows exposing them to the actual existence of real-life LGBT families hardly seems like competent parenting, at least in so far as educating your children how to treat those with different beliefs with respect. How will children of such parents learn the coping skills to interact in a diverse world outside the sequestered confines of their front door?

It's too bad that instead of simply "turning them off," parents don't take advantage of the opportunity to have a discussion on how to show respect for humanity to all of God's children, regardless of whether or not we walk the same path and share the same beliefs.

Hiding one's head in the sand doesn't work for ostriches, and it certainly doesn't help prepare children for real life that awaits them once they graduate from Primary.

I watch a great deal of shows on TV that showcase a number of religious folks and enjoy and find value in them, even when I don't share the same beliefs or values. My husband and I enjoy attending the Mormon Tabernacle Choir's annual Christmas Concert, and don't take offense or feel the need to avoid or shun LDS-themed entertainment, no matter how offensive we find some of the Faith's teachings. It's strange to hear that others refuse to do so in the name of apparent moral superiority.

Kudos to Disney. It's approach and values are refreshing. Wouldn't it be wonderful if the show ultimately featured a gay teen and an LDS teen learning to find common ground and respect one another despite their differences...? Sorta like having an:
aim to bring people together to address teen safety and to express respect and love for all of God’s children. We join our voice with all who come together to foster a community of inclusion in which no one is mistreated because of who they are or what they believe.

We share common beliefs, among them the pricelessness of our youth and the value of families. We earnestly hope this festival and other related efforts can build respectful communication, better understanding and civility as we all learn from each other.
What you choose to see as appropriate as a parent for your child does not have to align with mine. And just because Disney states something is so, does not mean it is.
'You'll never medicate your way out of diseases you behave yourself into" ~Dr. Roby Mitchell

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Re: ‘Andi Mack’ Character To Come Out As Gay: A Disney Channel First

Postby Daniel2 » Mon Oct 30, 2017 2:55 pm

kittycat51 wrote:
Mon Oct 30, 2017 2:01 pm
What you choose to see as appropriate as a parent for your child does not have to align with mine. And just because Disney states something is so, does not mean it is.
I agree, what I view as appropriate as a parent for my children doesn't have to align with yours, and I never said otherwise.

And I agree that just because any organization says something certainly doesn't mean it's so, whether it's Disney, the LDS Church, or anyone else. Again, I never said otherwise.

That being said, I'm curious: do you believe that teaching your children to be respectful and kind towards other kids they may encounter at school even if the other kids have different beliefs, values, practices, or even families is an inappropriate lesson for children to learn...?

D
Have compassion for everyone you meet, even if they don't want it. What seems conceit, bad manners, or cynicism is always a sign of things no ears have heard, no eyes have seen. You do not know what wars are going on down where the spirit meets the bone.

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Re: ‘Andi Mack’ Character To Come Out As Gay: A Disney Channel First

Postby setyourselffree » Mon Oct 30, 2017 3:50 pm

I heard he makes out with Goofy. Which let's face it has always been the gayest of all of Disney's cartoons.

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Re: ‘Andi Mack’ Character To Come Out As Gay: A Disney Channel First

Postby Serragon » Mon Oct 30, 2017 4:10 pm

Daniel2 wrote:
Mon Oct 30, 2017 1:20 pm


Parental blocks and allegations of sickness directed at a show that "takes great care in ensuring that it’s appropriate for all audiences and sends a powerful message about inclusion and respect for humanity" and hopes to "Start conversations about trust, love, relationships and family dynamics [and] explores them with humor and heart, and helps viewers figure out how they might handle similar situations"....?

Sequestering kids by encouraging them to "turn off" shows exposing them to the actual existence of real-life LGBT families hardly seems like competent parenting, at least in so far as educating your children how to treat those with different beliefs with respect. How will children of such parents learn the coping skills to interact in a diverse world outside the sequestered confines of their front door?

It's too bad that instead of simply "turning them off," parents don't take advantage of the opportunity to have a discussion on how to show respect for humanity to all of God's children, regardless of whether or not we walk the same path and share the same beliefs.

Hiding one's head in the sand doesn't work for ostriches, and it certainly doesn't help prepare children for real life that awaits them once they graduate from Primary.

I watch a great deal of shows on TV that showcase a number of religious folks and enjoy and find value in them, even when I don't share the same beliefs or values. My husband and I enjoy attending the Mormon Tabernacle Choir's annual Christmas Concert, and don't take offense or feel the need to avoid or shun LDS-themed entertainment, no matter how offensive we find some of the Faith's teachings. It's strange to hear that others refuse to do so in the name of apparent moral superiority.

Kudos to Disney. It's approach and values are refreshing. Wouldn't it be wonderful if the show ultimately featured a gay teen and an LDS teen learning to find common ground and respect one another despite their differences...?
Yes, blocks and allegations at sickness. Please forgive us if we don't take the show creators at their word, as the presence of a homosexual teen is proof that it is not appropriate for all audiences. Many believe it is inapropriate to glorify deviant sexual fetishes and elevate them to a life defining status. The show is simply another car in the indoctrination train. The more you normalize the deviant behaviors, the more palatable they become.

It is interesting you issue a call to show respect to humanity. No one has denied your humanity. But I suspect you actually don't mean a respect for humanity. This is just a way to try and make your plea sound more sympathetic. What you actually mean is for people to stop judging your behavior to be sinful and wrong. You would like everyone to consider it normal.

What common ground might a homosexual teen and LDS teen find on your hypothetical TV show? Again, I don't actually think you mean common ground at all. What actually happens in these types of shows is that the conservative/religious/straight (pick your antagonist and plug them in) person is made out to be the bad guy who eventually is made to see how terrible they are and accepts the leftist/secular/homosexual (again, pick your victim) person entirely on their terms. It's like magic! But this is not common ground. This is simply propaganda.

Deviants always want society to conform to them. They want the social price for their deviancy to be removed. But when a society allows all behaviors, you no longer have a society. Society cannot be built around "humanity". It is built around common beliefs and practices. In this way the public square is a place where all can go without having deviant and immoral behaviors thrust at them. As deviancy is tolerated and accepted in public, the normal people either withdraw or become morally compromised as they have to lie to themselves in order to pretend that what they are experiencing is OK. Society erodes and eventually collapses as no one really has any stake in it any longer.

Kudos to those who express their displeasure at the homosexual propaganda emanating from Disney. Their approach and values are refreshing. Wouldn't it be wonderful if Disney put out a show where an LDS teen helps a homosexual teen repent so that teen is able to turn their lives around instead of being a slave to their natural man?

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Re: ‘Andi Mack’ Character To Come Out As Gay: A Disney Channel First

Postby Fiannan » Mon Oct 30, 2017 9:29 pm

That being said, I'm curious: do you believe that teaching your children to be respectful and kind towards other kids they may encounter at school even if the other kids have different beliefs, values, practices, or even families is an inappropriate lesson for children to learn...?
Ever hear of Edward Bernays? He is arguably the father of the modern age of TV propaganda:

Image

Television has an incredible influence over the mind. Unlike discussions that occur on forums or such the human mind is designed to hear stories. Our frontal lobe actually shuts down, to a degree, when watching TV and we process what we hear and see in our emotional centers. So TV can essentially cause us to normalize even behavior that we may believe is immoral -- i.e. women who watch TV dramas may root for the leading lady, who is married to a not-so-understanding husband, to sleep with the fantastic leading male she meets in her fictional work. Sure it is just a fantasy, but the mind is processing it as if it isn't.

As for kindness to others I would never even bar my kids from playing with kids from a same-sex marriage family. However, what is the true intentions of TV shows that are presenting same-sex relations? And if we want to deal with dramas with more realistic situations then why is it that religion has all but been sanitized from TV culture, unless it is to be negative towards it? religion plays a major role in American life but you would never know it watching TV.
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Re: ‘Andi Mack’ Character To Come Out As Gay: A Disney Channel First

Postby Yahtzee » Mon Oct 30, 2017 11:40 pm

Now we get to see a Disneyfied gay life. I'm sure it'll be totally accurate and relatable, like all Disney characters. /sarcasm
I'll stick with our family's current plan of avoiding all Disney and letting my children see the reality of the heartache, selfishness, and pain brought upon so many by our LGBTQ family and neighbors. Real life teaches much better lessons than the television propaganda machine.
Disney is the opiate of the masses.

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Re: ‘Andi Mack’ Character To Come Out As Gay: A Disney Channel First

Postby simpleton » Tue Oct 31, 2017 5:57 am

Vice is a monster of so frightful mien
As to be hated needs but to be seen;
Yet seen too oft, familiar with her face,
We first endure, then pity, then embrace.

It seems that Jerusalem (SLC) and the land round about, is becoming like unto Lehi's Jerusalem or even Lot's Sodom and Gomorrah. About high time to leave it all behind...... Actually you read about Lot's Sodom and Gomorrah in the book of Jasher and it is incomprehensible to understand how Lot could even live there, not just their raging homosexuality, but also their meaness of spirit...
I find it interesting how society and church is past the "ENDURE" and now fully into the "PITY" and also almost fully into the "EMBRACING" stage of this LGBTQ rage...
Also is of interest is how it is brought about, through "love" and "compassion" ...
And with stories like these going on in the midst of Mormondom, why even talk about that there even is right and wrong or black and white or good and evil, according to this story it is all just a matter of choice and that anything you choose to do is ok...
Excerpt from Tom Christoffersons SL Tribune article:

Though some in the LDS hierarchy back then cautioned against it, the Christofferson clan welcomed his partner into the family, including him as a spouse in all activities and even allowing the couple to share a bed during visits.
Theirs was a joy-filled and satisfying relationship for 19 years, Tom Christofferson recalls, but something was missing. The spirituality he had found in his faith.
When the couple moved to New Canaan, Conn., in 2007, Christofferson was drawn to the Mormon meetinghouse in town. He would quietly come in late, sit on the back bench, and leave during the final strains of the closing hymn.
Finally, the gay former missionary approached the congregation’s bishop to introduce himself and ask if he would be welcome.
Of course, replied then-Bishop Bruce Larson without hesitation, and bring your partner. ( "and bring your partner" yes bring your partner so that you can set a wonderful alternate living lifestyle for our innocent children to imitate beings it's all good... pathetic)
“I didn’t need instructions on how to respond to anyone who sincerely and humbly wanted to join with us to worship,” Larson writes in an email from Hong Kong, where he now lives. It was “pretty much a spiritually prompted no-brainer.”
Thus began Christofferson’s nearly seven-year sojourn in that East Coast ward, where little by little he became enmeshed in its community of believers — sharing his faith, teaching an occasional lesson, praying at service projects, taking on the role of a beloved uncle to the ward’s children......

Are we not fulfilling prophecy and predictions from scriptures?

Isaiah 3:

8For Jerusalem is ruined, and Judah is fallen: because their tongue and their doings are against the LORD, to provoke the eyes of his glory.

9The shew of their countenance doth witness against them; and they declare their sin as Sodom, they hide it not. Woe unto their soul! for they have rewarded evil unto themselves.

10Say ye to the righteous, that it shall be well with him: for they shall eat the fruit of their doings.

11Woe unto the wicked! it shall be ill with him: for the reward of his hands shall be given him.

12As for my people, children are their oppressors, and women rule over them. O my people, they which lead thee cause thee to err, and destroy the way of thy paths.

13The LORD standeth up to plead, and standeth to judge the people.

14The LORD will enter into judgment with the ancients of his people, and the princes thereof: for ye have eaten up the vineyard; the spoil of the poor is in your houses.

15What mean ye that ye beat my people to pieces, and grind the faces of the poor? saith the Lord GOD of hosts.

16Moreover the LORD saith, Because the daughters of Zion are haughty, and walk with stretched forth necks and wanton eyes, walking and mincing as they go, and making a tinkling with their feet........

The very first part of the process of repenting is to acknowledge that we are sinners and/or that we have sinned. And that little tiny tidbit portion of Isaiah fits us to a T, IMO.
But I suppose we will (most of us) claim to be those of verse 10, and that Isaiah is talking about those "other" wicked people...

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Re: ‘Andi Mack’ Character To Come Out As Gay: A Disney Channel First

Postby kittycat51 » Tue Oct 31, 2017 8:40 am

Daniel2 wrote:
Mon Oct 30, 2017 2:55 pm
kittycat51 wrote:
Mon Oct 30, 2017 2:01 pm
What you choose to see as appropriate as a parent for your child does not have to align with mine. And just because Disney states something is so, does not mean it is.
I agree, what I view as appropriate as a parent for my children doesn't have to align with yours, and I never said otherwise.

And I agree that just because any organization says something certainly doesn't mean it's so, whether it's Disney, the LDS Church, or anyone else. Again, I never said otherwise.

That being said, I'm curious: do you believe that teaching your children to be respectful and kind towards other kids they may encounter at school even if the other kids have different beliefs, values, practices, or even families is an inappropriate lesson for children to learn...?

D
I have mentioned on several boards here that I have several extended family members who are gay/lesbian. I love them, and I love being around them, but I still don't agree with or accept their lifestyle. I have taught correct principles of respect (which is lacking in today's society) kindness (which is king) and integrity to my boys. Something that my parents taught me and I really pushed it hard with my boys, is that you can't be forced to like everyone but I do expect you to be KIND to everyone. They tend to be very sensitive and kind to all, regardless of different beliefs, values, practices etc. I just don't believe it's Disney's or society's right or role to teach my boys about how they should act/react or accept the gay/lesbian lifestyle, that's my role as a parent. I choose and have blocks on our TV according to violence, language, sexual content etc. Disney's choice to do what they do does not coincide with my belief system so if my boys were younger (which they are not) and watched Disney (which they don't care to now) I would block the Andi Mack show.
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Re: ‘Andi Mack’ Character To Come Out As Gay: A Disney Channel First

Postby Daniel2 » Tue Oct 31, 2017 10:52 am

Serragon wrote:
Mon Oct 30, 2017 4:10 pm
Yes, blocks and allegations at sickness. Please forgive us if we don't take the show creators at their word, as the presence of a homosexual teen is proof that it is not appropriate for all audiences. Many believe it is inapropriate to glorify deviant sexual fetishes and elevate them to a life defining status. The show is simply another car in the indoctrination train. The more you normalize the deviant behaviors, the more palatable they become.

It is interesting you issue a call to show respect to humanity. No one has denied your humanity. But I suspect you actually don't mean a respect for humanity. This is just a way to try and make your plea sound more sympathetic. What you actually mean is for people to stop judging your behavior to be sinful and wrong. You would like everyone to consider it normal.

What common ground might a homosexual teen and LDS teen find on your hypothetical TV show? Again, I don't actually think you mean common ground at all. What actually happens in these types of shows is that the conservative/religious/straight (pick your antagonist and plug them in) person is made out to be the bad guy who eventually is made to see how terrible they are and accepts the leftist/secular/homosexual (again, pick your victim) person entirely on their terms. It's like magic! But this is not common ground. This is simply propaganda.

Deviants always want society to conform to them. They want the social price for their deviancy to be removed. But when a society allows all behaviors, you no longer have a society. Society cannot be built around "humanity". It is built around common beliefs and practices. In this way the public square is a place where all can go without having deviant and immoral behaviors thrust at them. As deviancy is tolerated and accepted in public, the normal people either withdraw or become morally compromised as they have to lie to themselves in order to pretend that what they are experiencing is OK. Society erodes and eventually collapses as no one really has any stake in it any longer.

Kudos to those who express their displeasure at the homosexual propaganda emanating from Disney. Their approach and values are refreshing. Wouldn't it be wonderful if Disney put out a show where an LDS teen helps a homosexual teen repent so that teen is able to turn their lives around instead of being a slave to their natural man?
I don't think there's a need to imply forgiveness should be expected when not taking anyone "at their word." There's always value in thoughtfully exploring all aspects of an issue and making up one's own mind based on what resonates as truthful and/or valuable.

The mere existence of a gay teen shouldn't imply that material is inappropriate for all ages any more than the existence of an LDS teen would imply material is inappropriate for all ages. My husband and I don't cease to exist or be visible once we leave our front door---there's babies and children all around us everywhere in public, as well as in the privacy of the homes of our family members, neighbors, friends, coworkers, and acquaintances. Our existence doesn't imply "not appropriate for all ages."

I haven't seen anything suggesting that there will be sexual behaviors on display by the gay teen on Disney's show, and I certainly don't expect there to be any more than there would be any more than there are among straight characters. I am fairly confident no sexual behaviors will be shown, deviant or otherwise.

The degree to which I relate to and define myself as a gay man isn't any more or less than most straight people I know.

As for your comments around my invocation of the term "to show respect and inclusion for humanity," I was quoting the show's producers who said that is their aim. I don't believe that's only leveled at gays and lesbians; Disney is very diverse and is also very inclusive of respectful religious expression, as well (for example, my husband and I love attending Disneyland's Candlelit Nativity Choral Presentation the first week of December every year, which includes reading the Biblical passages surrounding the story of the birth of Christ, as well as classic religious-based Christmas carols).

In all sincerity and honesty, I really don't care of you, your church, or any other church continues to preach that same-gender relationships are sinful. Truly, I don't. What I DO care about, and what I hope DOES change, is that we can all treat one another with dignity ,kindness, and respect--and I mean that on both sides of the issue, and I am just as proactive about calling for respect towards my LDS family, friends, and neighbors among my LGBT friends and family.

I note your choice to continue using words like sickness and deviancy, despite understanding that many find those words to be hurtful. And that is certainly your right and no one can or should take that right from you. But the words we choose to speak often suggest more about ourselves than they do about others. Your ongoing choice to use those provocative, judgmental, and offensive terms demonstrates your unwillingness to return the same respect that is likely most often extended to you, and which I suspect you likely take for granted. Meaning, I could respond in kind with all kinds of nasty labels about religion in general and Mormonism in particular, but I feel that no matter what my personal feelings about your chosen Faith is, I believe it's best to promote mutual respect even as we continue to hold different views. Of course, the internet brings about a sense of anonymity that often results in people expressing themselves in the most coarse terms without consequence. People say things they'd (hopefully) never say in real life in public. While that's unfortunately become the norm, I'll continue to strive for civility in all manifestations of life.

I agree that society is structured around a set of shared values which inform the way that society lives. I'm grateful for the constitutional principles which guide ours in the United States of America, and which seek to promote individual freedoms, rights, and responsibilities to their most maximum levels. I'm not sure what you mean about the collapse of society; it certainly sounds scary, but I'm not sure what it has to do with the topic at hand. Recognizing marriages between and strengthening families headed by same-sex couples is strengthening the types of core values that drive civilized society, encouraging responsibility and care between family members, and strengthen our moral foundation. Strengthening same-sex families doesn't detract from strengthening different-sex families; we can all be strengthened together, and one needn't rob anything from the other.

While I disagree that the choice to live in congruence with one's innate sexual attraction by responsibility entering into a committed marriage with someone to whom one is romantically, sexually, spiritually, emotionally, and culturally compatible is "surrendering to the natural man" or being any type of "slave" to it, I definitely feel that Latter-day Saints should continue to be seeking to tell their own uplifting stories on any and all media platforms available to them, including giving voice to those gay and lesbian members who choose to abide by the values promoted by the LDS church (just as they've done on www.mormonandgay.com). I think it would be wonderful to see more representation of and by Latter-day Saints and their stories in mainstream media. The most likely way for that to happen isn't to withdraw from media and hope that non-members will tell your stories; the most likely way for that to happen is to engage and encourage shows that show your people at their best, just as I hope this show does on Disney for this young gay teen. We are all edified when we can learn about each other directly from the sources of our best selves, rather than relying on the potentially-distorted versions told by outsiders, even with the best of intentions. As I always said growing up LDS, the best way to learn about what life is like for a Latter-day Saint and what they believe is to ask a Latter-day Saint--not their critics. The same is just as true for those of us who are gay and lesbian.

Ironically, Mormonism has a history of showing that today's "abominations" and "deviancies" are often tomorrow's line-upon-line-revealed, God-sanctioned truths. In the past, Mormon leaders regularly denounced both monogamous and interracial marriages as abominations contrary to the word of God and which would lead to the destruction of society. Today, the Church sanctions both.
Last edited by Daniel2 on Tue Oct 31, 2017 12:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Have compassion for everyone you meet, even if they don't want it. What seems conceit, bad manners, or cynicism is always a sign of things no ears have heard, no eyes have seen. You do not know what wars are going on down where the spirit meets the bone.

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Re: ‘Andi Mack’ Character To Come Out As Gay: A Disney Channel First

Postby Fiannan » Tue Oct 31, 2017 11:17 am

So TV has no effect on normalizing and encouraging behavior?
Warning, a bit of bad language.
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Re: ‘Andi Mack’ Character To Come Out As Gay: A Disney Channel First

Postby Daniel2 » Tue Oct 31, 2017 1:24 pm

Fiannan wrote:
Mon Oct 30, 2017 9:29 pm
Ever hear of Edward Bernays? He is arguably the father of the modern age of TV propaganda:

Image

Television has an incredible influence over the mind. Unlike discussions that occur on forums or such the human mind is designed to hear stories. Our frontal lobe actually shuts down, to a degree, when watching TV and we process what we hear and see in our emotional centers. So TV can essentially cause us to normalize even behavior that we may believe is immoral -- i.e. women who watch TV dramas may root for the leading lady, who is married to a not-so-understanding husband, to sleep with the fantastic leading male she meets in her fictional work. Sure it is just a fantasy, but the mind is processing it as if it isn't.

As for kindness to others I would never even bar my kids from playing with kids from a same-sex marriage family. However, what is the true intentions of TV shows that are presenting same-sex relations? And if we want to deal with dramas with more realistic situations then why is it that religion has all but been sanitized from TV culture, unless it is to be negative towards it? religion plays a major role in American life but you would never know it watching TV.
Yes, television can have incredible influence over both the mind and society as a whole, and often for either good or ill. I would disagree with any implication that TV programing can't be educational, enlightening, uplifting, and informative. I would also disagree that our brains and/or critical thinking automatically shut down simply from watching TV, or that we're powerless to think for ourselves merely because we're watching a TV program. Exposure to anything MAY cause us to normalize it, or it may remain repulsive... neither one is an automatic default that remains powerless to control.

I'm glad to hear you don't prohibit your kids from playing with others based on differences in religion or gender.

I think the creators of the TV program were very clear about their intentions: to create a more inclusive world for all humanity. Being inclusive of gay/lesbian/trans teens doesn't mean we need to exclude anyone else, including those who's religious values may differ.

I don't believe that religion has been "sanitized" from the media or TV culture. I believe TV is a reflection of it's creators and their values, but shows only stay on mainstream channels if they are profitable (meaning, that enough people are watching them to justify the support of the money received from advertisers that ultimately finance the productions). When stories, acting, and production values are high quality, people will watch. I believe the reason LDS families and their values aren't reflected on TV is not enough Latter-day Saints are vocationally invested in producing such TV shows. I'm sure we could both guess as to why that is, but ultimately that's really beside my point. Regardless of the reasons why they aren't, if more Mormons had a vested and passionate interest in seeing their values and stories being told on TV and a good enough story was pitched, they'd likely succeed. Even as a former member but ongoing resident of Utah, has family who remain fully-devoted to the LDS church, and who stays up-to-date on current events in the dominant LDS church and culture, I'd love to see and would totally a "Seventh Heaven"/"Eight is Enough" show based about an LDS family sensitively navigating the modern world with kindness and love while maintaining their personal values.

For what it's worth, I actually lament the way that most gays and lesbians are portrayed on TV. Both my husband and I feel that we don't often find ourselves and the type of relationship we share reflected in how most gays and lesbians are portrayed. We also wish there were more positive portrayals of families like ours. The one that comes closest, I think, is the TV series "The Fosters" or the long-since cancelled "Brothers & Sisters." All too often, gays and lesbians are portrayed by the most extreme characterizations of what is commonly viewed to represent "The Gay Community." My husband and I don't really relate to "The Gay Community" so much as we related to our own neighborhood, where we are simply the family down the street that just happens to be headed by two men instead of a man and a woman. We don't club, we don't enjoy drag, we aren't promiscuous, we don't relate to HIV-based stories, and we're tired of the typical angst-y gay 'coming out/coming of age' themes in most gay-themed material... We're pretty much just normal (dare I say, even socially 'conservative') people (BYU grads, RMs, fathers, brothers, sons, uncles, grandfathers) who love one another and have worked hard to create a loving family and home. Unfortunately, stories like ours are usually pretty boring and aren't likely to survive on mainstream TV... sigh.
Have compassion for everyone you meet, even if they don't want it. What seems conceit, bad manners, or cynicism is always a sign of things no ears have heard, no eyes have seen. You do not know what wars are going on down where the spirit meets the bone.

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Re: ‘Andi Mack’ Character To Come Out As Gay: A Disney Channel First

Postby Daniel2 » Tue Oct 31, 2017 1:31 pm

Yahtzee wrote:
Mon Oct 30, 2017 11:40 pm
Now we get to see a Disneyfied gay life. I'm sure it'll be totally accurate and relatable, like all Disney characters. /sarcasm
I'll stick with our family's current plan of avoiding all Disney and letting my children see the reality of the heartache, selfishness, and pain brought upon so many by our LGBTQ family and neighbors. Real life teaches much better lessons than the television propaganda machine.
I agree that sometimes life teaches better lessons, but also feel that sometimes TV is can be more effective at teaching our hearts and minds, depending on the source of the transmissions... ;)

Have you and your children ever seen or benefited from any love, selflessness, help, and joy from any of your LGBTQ family members and neighbors?

Or are you saying that your LGBTQ family members and neighbors have never offered any support, help, blessings, or anything positive or uplifting to you and your family...?
Have compassion for everyone you meet, even if they don't want it. What seems conceit, bad manners, or cynicism is always a sign of things no ears have heard, no eyes have seen. You do not know what wars are going on down where the spirit meets the bone.

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Re: ‘Andi Mack’ Character To Come Out As Gay: A Disney Channel First

Postby Fiannan » Tue Oct 31, 2017 1:40 pm

I don't believe that religion has been "sanitized" from the media or TV culture. I believe TV is a reflection of it's creators and their values, but shows only stay on mainstream channels if they are profitable (meaning, that enough people are watching them to justify the support of the money received from advertisers that ultimately finance the productions). When stories, acting, and production values are high quality, people will watch. I believe the reason LDS families and their values aren't reflected on TV is not enough Latter-day Saints are vocationally invested in producing such TV shows. I'm sure we could both guess as to why that is, but ultimately that's really beside my point. Regardless of the reasons why they aren't, if more Mormons had a vested and passionate interest in seeing their values and stories being told on TV and a good enough story was pitched, they'd likely succeed. Even as a former member but ongoing resident of Utah, has family who remain fully-devoted to the LDS church, and who stays up-to-date on current events in the dominant LDS church and culture, I'd love to see and would totally a "Seventh Heaven"/"Eight is Enough" show based about an LDS family sensitively navigating the modern world with kindness and love while maintaining their personal values.
Then why did a popular show on ABC (owned by Disney) get cancelled? You ae aware that only 5 mega-corporations own the US media machine, right? That is called an oligopoly. So no, the normal rules of capitalism and market values may not apply here. Maybe that is why smarter people are flocking to cable alternatives - although some of those shows may be incredible in quality, but sometimes women's breasts show so some LDS people might get crazy over that.
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Re: ‘Andi Mack’ Character To Come Out As Gay: A Disney Channel First

Postby Fiannan » Tue Oct 31, 2017 1:48 pm

I agree that sometimes life teaches better lessons, but also feel that sometimes TV is can be more effective at teaching our hearts and minds, depending on the source of the transmissions... ;)
You mean propagandizing. Or you could call it brainwashing. Hey, while I would encourage you to watch all his presentation maybe just start just before 31 minutes and realize this is how TV shows can manipulate us with their plots.

Here, give it a look: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pfo5gPG72KM&t=1168s
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Re: ‘Andi Mack’ Character To Come Out As Gay: A Disney Channel First

Postby Serragon » Tue Oct 31, 2017 2:30 pm

Daniel2 wrote:
Tue Oct 31, 2017 10:52 am

I don't think there's a need to imply forgiveness should be expected when not taking anyone "at their word." There's always value in thoughtfully exploring all aspects of an issue and making up one's own mind based on what resonates as truthful and/or valuable.

The mere existence of a gay teen shouldn't imply that material is inappropriate for all ages any more than the existence of an LDS teen would imply material is inappropriate for all ages. My husband and I don't cease to exist or be visible once we leave our front door---there's babies and children all around us everywhere in public, as well as in the privacy of the homes of our family members, neighbors, friends, coworkers, and acquaintances. Our existence doesn't imply "not appropriate for all ages."

I haven't seen anything suggesting that there will be sexual behaviors on display by the gay teen on Disney's show, and I certainly don't expect there to be any more than there would be any more than there are among straight characters. I am fairly confident no sexual behaviors will be shown, deviant or otherwise.

The degree to which I relate to and define myself as a gay man isn't any more or less than most straight people I know.

As for your comments around my invocation of the term "to show respect and inclusion for humanity," I was quoting the show's producers who said that is their aim. I don't believe that's only leveled at gays and lesbians; Disney is very diverse and is also very inclusive of respectful religious expression, as well (for example, my husband and I love attending Disneyland's Candlelit Nativity Choral Presentation the first week of December every year, which includes reading the Biblical passages surrounding the story of the birth of Christ, as well as classic religious-based Christmas carols).

In all sincerity and honesty, I really don't care of you, your church, or any other church continues to preach that same-gender relationships are sinful. Truly, I don't. What I DO care about, and what I hope DOES change, is that we can all treat one another with dignity ,kindness, and respect--and I mean that on both sides of the issue, and I am just as proactive about calling for respect towards my LDS family, friends, and neighbors among my LGBT friends and family.

I note your choice to continue using words like sickness and deviancy, despite understanding that many find those words to be hurtful. And that is certainly your right and no one can or should take that right from you. But the words we choose to speak often suggest more about ourselves than they do about others. Your ongoing choice to use those provocative, judgmental, and offensive terms demonstrates your unwillingness to return the same respect that is likely most often extended to you, and which I suspect you likely take for granted. Meaning, I could respond in kind with all kinds of nasty labels about religion in general and Mormonism in particular, but I feel that no matter what my personal feelings about your chosen Faith is, I believe it's best to promote mutual respect even as we continue to hold different views. Of course, the internet brings about a sense of anonymity that often results in people expressing themselves in the most coarse terms without consequence. People say things they'd (hopefully) never say in real life in public. While that's unfortunately become the norm, I'll continue to strive for civility in all manifestations of life.

I agree that society is structured around a set of shared values which inform the way that society lives. I'm grateful for the constitutional principles which guide ours in the United States of America, and which seek to promote individual freedoms, rights, and responsibilities to their most maximum levels. I'm not sure what you mean about the collapse of society; it certainly sounds scary, but I'm not sure what it has to do with the topic at hand. Recognizing marriages between and strengthening families headed by same-sex couples is strengthening the types of core values that drive civilized society, encouraging responsibility and care between family members, and strengthen our moral foundation. Strengthening same-sex families doesn't detract from strengthening different-sex families; we can all be strengthened together, and one needn't rob anything from the other.

While I disagree that the choice to live in congruence with one's innate sexual attraction by responsibility entering into a committed marriage with someone to whom one is romantically, sexually, spiritually, emotionally, and culturally compatible is "surrendering to the natural man" or being any type of "slave" to it, I definitely feel that Latter-day Saints should continue to be seeking to tell their own uplifting stories on any and all media platforms available to them, including giving voice to those gay and lesbian members who choose to abide by the values promoted by the LDS church (just as they've done on www.mormonandgay.com). I think it would be wonderful to see more representation of and by Latter-day Saints and their stories in mainstream media. The most likely way for that to happen isn't to withdraw from media and hope that non-members will tell your stories; the most likely way for that to happen is to engage and encourage shows that show your people at their best, just as I hope this show does on Disney for this young gay teen. We are all edified when we can learn about each other directly from the sources of our best selves, rather than relying on the potentially-distorted versions told by outsiders, even with the best of intentions. As I always said growing up LDS, the best way to learn about what life is like for a Latter-day Saint and what they believe is to ask a Latter-day Saint--not their critics. The same is just as true for those of us who are gay and lesbian.

Ironically, Mormonism has a history of showing that today's "abominations" and "deviancies" are often tomorrow's line-upon-line-revealed, God-sanctioned truths. In the past, Mormon leaders regularly denounced both monogamous and interracial marriages as abominations contrary to the word of God and which would lead to the destruction of society. Today, the Church sanctions both.
You are correct that the mere existence of someone who has an attraction to someone of the same sex is not inappropriate. But TV seeks to elevate this attraction to identity where it becomes innappropriate for many audiences.

I use the words I use because they are the most correct and accurate. They are not full of hurt. That is an attribute you have chosen to give them. I do not use the language of the homosexual proponents because they are simply propaganda meant to make you feel positively about them without actually thinking about things. I also do not use the negative terms used by many anti-homosexual people because they are propaganda meant to make you feel negatively about homosexuals without actually thinking. I try to speak with clarity and exactness so that what is being conveyed can be understood.

You do not understand what constitutes a society. Societies are not built upon what you can legally do. They are built upon what you are willing not to do. Virtue, not vice. Sacrifice, not indulgence.

A good example is language. We all can swear. We all have the legal right to do it. In the past, people tended to keep this to the private sphere out of a sense of decency and propriety. Now, you can hear the f-bomb in nearly every public square. Society has degraded as a result as I outlined above. As this language becomes more common and pervasive, the net effect is a degradation in language, communication, and decency. It changes the way people think about things, and not for the better. People become less unified and connected and the community weakens as many people are forced to leave the public sphere. For those who like to swear it seems to be glorious and wonderful, but for society as a whole it is corrupted and low.

Public homosexuality is similar. You CAN do it, but you shouldn't. You have degraded normal sexuality, marriage, and families by promoting and normalizing your perversion. It has not made society better. It has made it worse. Much as modern art has helped degrade and destroy the ideals and beauty manifested in classical art, the promotion of homosexuality as a normal alternative to the classic family will have the same effect.

You speak much of civility and kindness, but this is entirely a one way street. You have been extremely uncivil and unkind in forcing your deviant lifestyle into the public sphere. Once there, you expect everyone to pretend that this hasn't happened and speak kindly to you, using only the words you recommend in the manner you dictate.

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Re: ‘Andi Mack’ Character To Come Out As Gay: A Disney Channel First

Postby Yahtzee » Tue Oct 31, 2017 4:34 pm

Daniel2 wrote:
Tue Oct 31, 2017 1:31 pm
Yahtzee wrote:
Mon Oct 30, 2017 11:40 pm
Now we get to see a Disneyfied gay life. I'm sure it'll be totally accurate and relatable, like all Disney characters. /sarcasm
I'll stick with our family's current plan of avoiding all Disney and letting my children see the reality of the heartache, selfishness, and pain brought upon so many by our LGBTQ family and neighbors. Real life teaches much better lessons than the television propaganda machine.
I agree that sometimes life teaches better lessons, but also feel that sometimes TV is can be more effective at teaching our hearts and minds, depending on the source of the transmissions... ;)

we'll just have to agree to disagree on this.

Have you and your children ever seen or benefited from any love, selflessness, help, and joy from any of your LGBTQ family members and neighbors?

Or are you saying that your LGBTQ family members and neighbors have never offered any support, help, blessings, or anything positive or uplifting to you and your family...?
I feel like you're trying to catch me in a verbal trap. Of course they are still human and capable of goodness. I believe everyone is capable of goodness because we are all children of God. Heck even Hitler loved children. And before you go off on how I just equated gays to Hitler, stop. I gave an example of something positive from someone who also created a lot of negative.
But by their fruits ye shall know them. I grew up doing theater in California. I went to prom with my gay best friend, my sibling is trans. So before you go off about how I don't know or understand - no. I have seen it intimately.
With the exception of one trans neighbor, no, they don't offer support, help, or blessings. They offer amusement. And hurt. And make demands without offering anything in return.
All humans are capable of this is well. But I can honestly say I have seen this more from my LGBTQ relationships than anywhere else.
Disney is the opiate of the masses.

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Re: ‘Andi Mack’ Character To Come Out As Gay: A Disney Channel First

Postby Daniel2 » Wed Nov 01, 2017 8:23 am

Fiannan wrote:
Tue Oct 31, 2017 1:48 pm
I agree that sometimes life teaches better lessons, but also feel that sometimes TV is can be more effective at teaching our hearts and minds, depending on the source of the transmissions... ;)
You mean propagandizing. Or you could call it brainwashing. Hey, while I would encourage you to watch all his presentation maybe just start just before 31 minutes and realize this is how TV shows can manipulate us with their plots.

Here, give it a look: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pfo5gPG72KM&t=1168s
Couple of thoughts came to mind as I read your post:

a) LDS General Conference and BYUTV are both broadcast over TV. The reach and effectiveness of General Conference would be impossible if it weren't for television and required 'in person, live' participation.

b) It's entirely ironic that you're recommending I watch a televised (via YouTube) program as an attempt to refute my comment that sometimes television is more educationally-effective than real-life circumstances. ;)
Have compassion for everyone you meet, even if they don't want it. What seems conceit, bad manners, or cynicism is always a sign of things no ears have heard, no eyes have seen. You do not know what wars are going on down where the spirit meets the bone.

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Re: ‘Andi Mack’ Character To Come Out As Gay: A Disney Channel First

Postby Daniel2 » Wed Nov 01, 2017 8:59 am

Serragon wrote:
Tue Oct 31, 2017 2:30 pm
I use the words I use because they are the most correct and accurate. They are not full of hurt. That is an attribute you have chosen to give them. I do not use the language of the homosexual proponents because they are simply propaganda meant to make you feel positively about them without actually thinking about things. I also do not use the negative terms used by many anti-homosexual people because they are propaganda meant to make you feel negatively about homosexuals without actually thinking. I try to speak with clarity and exactness so that what is being conveyed can be understood.

You do not understand what constitutes a society. Societies are not built upon what you can legally do. They are built upon what you are willing not to do. Virtue, not vice. Sacrifice, not indulgence.

A good example is language. We all can swear. We all have the legal right to do it. In the past, people tended to keep this to the private sphere out of a sense of decency and propriety. Now, you can hear the f-bomb in nearly every public square. Society has degraded as a result as I outlined above. As this language becomes more common and pervasive, the net effect is a degradation in language, communication, and decency. It changes the way people think about things, and not for the better. People become less unified and connected and the community weakens as many people are forced to leave the public sphere. For those who like to swear it seems to be glorious and wonderful, but for society as a whole it is corrupted and low.

Public homosexuality is similar. You CAN do it, but you shouldn't. You have degraded normal sexuality, marriage, and families by promoting and normalizing your perversion. It has not made society better. It has made it worse. Much as modern art has helped degrade and destroy the ideals and beauty manifested in classical art, the promotion of homosexuality as a normal alternative to the classic family will have the same effect.

You speak much of civility and kindness, but this is entirely a one way street. You have been extremely uncivil and unkind in forcing your deviant lifestyle into the public sphere. Once there, you expect everyone to pretend that this hasn't happened and speak kindly to you, using only the words you recommend in the manner you dictate.
Calling homosexuality and/or homosexual relationships "a sickness" is not "the most correct and accurate" terminology, and is the antithesis of "clarity and exactness." Every major medical and psychological organization would disagree with that label, and even LDS leadership does not use that terminology in reference to homosexuality. Again, we all have freedom of speech and you're entirely free to use whatever terms you want, but it's delusional to imagine that the words you're using are "the most accurate and correct" when no other major medical or psychological organizations view it as a sickness, and even the LDS Church itself no longer uses those terms.

With all due respect, I'm astonished that you would presume to judge what I do and/or don't know about what a society is and how it's defined. How strange to make such a random judgment about someone's knowledge or lack thereof based on one post on the internet, as if that's reflective of everything I do or don't know... Rational minds can understand that there are many ways to view and discuss what "society" is and how it may be defined, depending on the facets of the issues being discussed. Societies certainly can be discussed from the vantage point of what they legally allow, as well as what it's citizens are willing to do or refrain from doing. It's a false dichotomy to suggest that the concept of "society" can only be viewed from that which you proposed.

I understand that you believe that same-sex relationships are sinful and should be avoided, and I'm not interested in trying to persuade you otherwise; you're entirely free to continue to promote your views that homosexuality is sinful. I reject the assertion that I have "degraded" "normal" sexuality, marriage, or families. Just as my family isn't defined by the actions of others, others' families aren't defined (nor degraded) based on mine. And legal recognition of my family hasn't taken anything away from other families other than their previously "privileged" status over mine; all the resources available to opposite-gender couples are still entirely available to opposite-gender couples. While you may assert that the loss of your privilege has "made society worse," that's really more a matter of perspective. After all, I imagine southern plantation owners also felt that the end of slavery 'made society worse,' too. That being said, I'd be really curious to hear specific examples of how you feel homosexuality has "worsened" society. Ironic once again that you lament that modern art has "degraded" and "destroyed" the ideals and beauty in classical art, given that most of the most beautiful "Classical" art was created either by gay artists or in societies that embraced same-sex relationships. ;)

You accuse me of speaking of civility and kindness while being "extremely uncivil and unkind in forcing [my] lifestyle into the public square" and "expecting others to pretend [that I haven't been (allegedly) extremely uncivil and unkind]."

Please provide examples where I have been "extremely uncivil and unkind." I truly want to hear specific examples, please.

Additionally, you claim I "expect everyone to...[use] only the words you recommend in the manner you dictate." Again, this is demonstrably false. In multiple posts in this very thread, I have continually acknowledged that while I agree with LDS leaders' call for more civility and respect in dialogue on these topics, we all have freedom of speech and retain full freedoms to use whatever terms we see fit. My actions in doing so are similar to the LDS Church's requests and recommendations to the media in their media guide as to the appropriate terms the media should use when referring to the LDS Church. It's hardly unusual for us to hope that people will use our own preferred terminology to refer to ourselves, just as the Church has done here:
Style Guide — The Name of the Church

The official name of the Church is The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. This full name was given by revelation from God to Joseph Smith in 1838.

While the term "Mormon Church" has long been publicly applied to the Church as a nickname, it is not an authorized title, and the Church discourages its use.

When writing about the Church, please follow these guidelines:

•In the first reference, the full name of the Church is preferred: "The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints."
•Please avoid the use of "Mormon Church," "LDS Church" or the "Church of the Latter-day Saints."
•When a shortened reference is needed, the terms "the Church" or "the Church of Jesus Christ" are encouraged.
•When referring to Church members, the term "Latter-day Saints" is preferred, though "Mormons" is acceptable.
•"Mormon" is correctly used in proper names such as the Book of Mormon, Mormon Tabernacle Choir or Mormon Trail, or when used as an adjective in such expressions as "Mormon pioneers."
•The term "Mormonism" is acceptable in describing the combination of doctrine, culture and lifestyle unique to The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.
•When referring to people or organizations that practice polygamy, the terms "Mormons," "Mormon fundamentalist," "Mormon dissidents," etc. are incorrect. The Associated Press Stylebook notes: "The term Mormon is not properly applied to the other … churches that resulted from the split after [Joseph] Smith's death."

Also see recommendations for using Mormon hashtags on social media channels.
http://www.mormonnewsroom.org/style-guide
Last edited by Daniel2 on Wed Nov 01, 2017 12:27 pm, edited 3 times in total.
Have compassion for everyone you meet, even if they don't want it. What seems conceit, bad manners, or cynicism is always a sign of things no ears have heard, no eyes have seen. You do not know what wars are going on down where the spirit meets the bone.

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Re: ‘Andi Mack’ Character To Come Out As Gay: A Disney Channel First

Postby Daniel2 » Wed Nov 01, 2017 9:16 am

Yahtzee wrote:
Tue Oct 31, 2017 4:34 pm
I feel like you're trying to catch me in a verbal trap. Of course they are still human and capable of goodness. I believe everyone is capable of goodness because we are all children of God. Heck even Hitler loved children. And before you go off on how I just equated gays to Hitler, stop. I gave an example of something positive from someone who also created a lot of negative.
But by their fruits ye shall know them. I grew up doing theater in California. I went to prom with my gay best friend, my sibling is trans. So before you go off about how I don't know or understand - no. I have seen it intimately.
With the exception of one trans neighbor, no, they don't offer support, help, or blessings. They offer amusement. And hurt. And make demands without offering anything in return.
All humans are capable of this is well. But I can honestly say I have seen this more from my LGBTQ relationships than anywhere else.
Thank you for your thoughts. I'm honestly not trying to catch you in a verbal trap. I'm trying to make sure that the LGBT experience is being discussed in an honest, transparent, and balanced manner. Some of the previous comments have seemed to imply that there is nothing good that can come from a same-sex couple, that they only live selfish lives entirely focused on their own needs, that they contribute nothing meaningful to families or society in general, etc. And while I can certainly understand that many religions view same-sex relationships as sinful, I believe it's wrong to suggest that all gays are self-centered, selfish, hedonistic, etc. Again, I appreciate your acknowledgement that we are "still human and capable of goodness."

I, too, am a believer in the concept of "by their fruits ye shall know them," and that remains one of the guiding mantras I use as my North Star.

I'm sorry to hear that with the exception of one trans neighbor, the gay people in your life haven't offered much support, help, or blessings, and seem to offer only amusement, hurt, and demands. To better understand what you mean, what do you mean by "amusement, hurt, and demands"? What, specifically, have those involved in LGBT relationships done to you by way of "amusement, hurt, and demands"?

Shortly after I left the church, I discovered a vibrant spiritual home in a different church which was also gay-affirming. While most of the congregation was straight, the LGBT members and their families were deeply committed to improving their local communities and the world in general. I consider myself blessed to remain committed to many of the ideals around personal integrity that I learned in my youth, even as the context and application has changed as my life's spiritual journey has continued to unfold.
Have compassion for everyone you meet, even if they don't want it. What seems conceit, bad manners, or cynicism is always a sign of things no ears have heard, no eyes have seen. You do not know what wars are going on down where the spirit meets the bone.

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Re: ‘Andi Mack’ Character To Come Out As Gay: A Disney Channel First

Postby Fiannan » Wed Nov 01, 2017 10:45 am

a) LDS General Conference and BYUTV are both broadcast over TV. The reach and effectiveness of General Conference would be impossible if it weren't for television and required 'in person, live' participation.
Nobody said television was evil. Stick to what I said. I said that the powers who dominate are an oligopoly and while there are seemingly many more choices, there are a very few choice providers. Like all technology the innovation is neither good or evil. It is how it is being employed.
b) It's entirely ironic that you're recommending I watch a televised (via YouTube) program as an attempt to refute my comment that sometimes television is more educationally-effective than real-life circumstances
One person's propaganda is another person's education. Soap operas have been employed in Latin America that present the message that later marriage and small families are best. The results have been phenomenal in reducing people's desired family size. Is that good or bad? Tell me. Also, had it not been for Hollywood and its baby sister the porn industry the moral viewpoints of the USA and western world in general would not have deteriorated as they have in recent years. Of course it is unfair to lump porn and Hollywood together in levels of evil...I guess I owe an apology to the porn industry. Nevertheless, as Orwell once said "All art is propaganda" and few Mormons, or people in general, recognize that.
"One of the penalties for refusing to participate in politics is that you end up being governed by your inferiors."
Plato

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Re: ‘Andi Mack’ Character To Come Out As Gay: A Disney Channel First

Postby gardener4life » Wed Nov 01, 2017 9:06 pm

I can totally see the day that LGBTQ will have additional extensions....It did just start with LG right? So next will be C for Cyborgs and robot lovers...then M or I for Muslims or Islam will be next, and then those attracted to sex with animals can have a letter which will be either F for Furries or A for animals...

So its a matter of time before it becomes LGBTQCMF or LGBTQRMA XD

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Re: ‘Andi Mack’ Character To Come Out As Gay: A Disney Channel First

Postby Daniel2 » Thu Nov 02, 2017 2:38 pm

gardener4life wrote:
Wed Nov 01, 2017 9:06 pm
I can totally see the day that LGBTQ will have additional extensions....It did just start with LG right? So next will be C for Cyborgs and robot lovers...then M or I for Muslims or Islam will be next, and then those attracted to sex with animals can have a letter which will be either F for Furries or A for animals...

So its a matter of time before it becomes LGBTQCMF or LGBTQRMA XD
While there are some who continue to add to the "Sexual Orientation Alphabet Soup," not all of us feel that's appropriate or applicable.

For example, while I often sympathize with the plight of transgender individuals, understand that there is some common ground with gays and lesbians as we're all 'sexual minorities' to a certain extent, and support many equality-related issues for our transgender brothers and sisters, trans issues aren't identical to gay/lesbian issues. Heck, I don't relate to many stereotypically gay issues (clubbing, drag, drugs, HIV, promiscuity, etc).

While I've come to accept and understand that the term "the LGBT community" is sometimes easier and more convenient to use when describing some common issues we all face, it has the unfortunate side-effect in some circles of implying some sort of 'group mind think,' almost as if being gay or lesbian implies we all have the same beliefs, values, and identities.

The truth is we simply don't. And there really isn't any such thing as "the gay lifestyle" (a term I once used as an active Latter-day Saint, and which I now find grossly inadequate and highly misleading). Just like "the straight community" is made up of people of a variety of divergent backgrounds, values, and lifestyle choices, the same is true of members of "the gay community," and even wider when referring to "the LGBT community."

I am truly astonished you would think to include "I" or "M" for followers of Islam (Muslims) in any sort of acronym referring to sexual orientation. I don't know whether to laugh as if it's a joke, be mortified that anyone would equate an alternate religion as if it's the basis of a sexual orientation, or shake my head at the ignorance the implication suggests.

As far as the implication that bestiality could ever be included in the LGBT community.... the thought is revolting. There are CLEAR differences between sexual orientation based upon gender vs. those associated with bestiality, pedophilia, and necrophilia (the latter two of which you didn't mention, but are all-too-often inaccurately lumped together with LGBT issues, as if there's any correlation or similarity), consent and victimization being key among them. No credible source I know (and by credible, I mean professional medical/psychological association/study) suggests any legitimate similarity between gender-based sexual orientation with any of the other alternative letters you imagine may someday be added.

D
Have compassion for everyone you meet, even if they don't want it. What seems conceit, bad manners, or cynicism is always a sign of things no ears have heard, no eyes have seen. You do not know what wars are going on down where the spirit meets the bone.


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