Serious question

[drtanner]

These questions are more the symptoms (and they need to be addressed) but unless you focus on the problem the symptoms will always return. If your concerned about how funds are used, prayerfully look at how it has always been used in the scriptures, look at how the Lord uses it and where it is really spent. What type of lifestyle are the brethren promoting. Jospeh Smith said, "By proving contraries, truth is made manifest." Is there a contrast in how those who lead the church live vs. those who you see on TV / media and what each group promote. True light is discernible meaning it helps us recognize reality; things as the are, have been, and always will be.

To treat the problem, this boils down to true conversion through the doctrine of Christ, being born again, and having an actual transformation because of Christ. If this is not happening chances are you may always have the symptoms. Elder Worthlin shared this story in April 2003 conference

A friend of mine once told me about his experience in coming to know and understand the gift of the Holy Ghost. He had prayed often and longed to know the truth of the gospel.

Although he felt at peace with his beliefs, he had never received the certain knowledge for which he hungered. He had reconciled himself to the fact that he might be one of those who would have to walk through this life relying upon the faith of others.

One morning, while pondering the scriptures, he felt something surge through his body from the top of his head to the bottom of his feet. “I was immersed in a feeling of such intense love and pure joy,” he explained. “I cannot describe the measure of what I felt at that time other than to say I was enveloped in joy so profound there was no room in me for any other sensation.”

Even as he felt this outpouring of the Holy Ghost, he wondered if possibly he was just imagining what was happening. “The more I wondered,” he said, “the more intense the feelings became until it was all I could do to tearfully say, ‘It is enough.’”

Elder Christofferson shared a similar one in this past conference about a mission president.

Have you ever had a similar experience/experiences ? They are available to all.

Lastly one sure way for me to know this church is still true is the temple. I was sealed to my family later in life (when I was 18) and I had a similar but different experience as mentioned above by Elder Wirthlin during that ordinance. If you worthily attend and strive to keep your covenants you can and will have sacred experiences and blessings in that place. What does that mean? The sealing power is still operative in this church, it is true, the endowment shows the pattern to be brought back into the presence of the Lord, and all of the blessings along the way are real. Committing to help those on the other side receive these blessings comes with experiences that you will not be able to question. May God bless you with answers.

[e-eye2.0]

will,

120000+ a year is more than i have or probably will ever make, money aside I feel I was lied to. This is pay. it is taxed, it is not modest. What is the reasoning?????

Why do you care whether they make more or less than you do? I see too many who think that equality means equality of stuff, and if life is going to be fair, I must have as much stuff as my neighbor. It falls squarely into coveting.

By the way 120,000 per year is modest! It may be more than you make, It is more than I make, but not much more than I made before I retired. Maybe it is more than average, but it isn't a high salary. I'm sure most made more when they were privately employed, and could have made much more had they not accepted the call into Apostleship.

Put more energy into figuring out how to do the best you can do , and less time worry about how much more somebody else may have than you. I've got news for you. Even in the Celestial Kingdom somebody is going to have more than you. Get over it!


Regards,

George Clay

Not coveting, just told my whole life we dont have paid ministry. So yes, i questioned it. Telling me to get over it? Really?? I work hard to support my family, I am grateful for what i have been blessed with. I dont want something for nothing, or desire something that someone else has. You missed my point.

It's actually surprising how many people don't know they get paid. I found out about 15 years ago. After that I stopped saying that no leaders received money and turned my phrase into local leaders don't receive anything.

If you look at what the newsroom reports it does state exactly this. In this link it just explains that none of the positions are paid. Now it doesn't go to say that there is potential to receive money in the higher ups, so there are going to be those who yell foul for non disclosure but it really doesn't bother me at all. I was a little surprised too though when I first heard this so I can understand one's shock.

http://www.mormonnewsroom.org/article/m ... y-ministry

[sandman45]

Just know brains are good at delusion. Faith is pretending to know things you don't know, so you can always pretend more intensely if you want more peace for the time being and decide later what to do down the road for yourself.

but earth doesn't revolve around the sun!

[sandman45]

Ive been a member about 30 years, this is not a I dont believe discussion, just trying to make sense of it all, i go to church, I pay tithing, I live the best i can, ive prayed about the items bellow and I have no anwser.

1. General authorities recieve a living allowance, to be about 120000 plus other benefits per year, one of the main reasons I joined the church was that it was a all volunter non paid ministry. 120000+ a year is more than i have or probably will ever make, money aside I feel I was lied to. This is pay. it is taxed, it is not modest. What is the reasoning?????

Joseph smith had 37 wives, I can live with that, 9 of that were sealed to him were married to other men, some were on missions and didnt know or did not give consent? Emma did not give consent on at least one of them. Huhhh??? One was 14, ?? Again can someone please explain this, Ive done research andive read the church reasoning behind this, I dont agree,

There are many other things that dont seem in harmony with what i feel should be correct blacks and priesthood, racial comments by past authorities, Mountain medow masacre, Bringham Young and his wives ect ect. I question the source or root of the church. Any advice???

I question what I believe, or thought I believe. Again any advice?

If a man works full time for the Church, I see nothing wrong with an allowance, our general authorities travel the world, Shouldn't the church help them with expenses?
It does not come from tithing,

4. We believe that the first principles and ordinances of the gospel are;
first, faith in the Lord Jesus Christ..
Have faith, don't worry, pray and let the spirit guide
You, and don't listen to Joel!

I volunteer to work full time for the church for that allowance.. wouldn't hesitate either about it.. I would put my eye single to the glory of God!

[Alaris]

Thanks for your responses, Again, I am not going apostate, I will hold to what i have, I know there is nothing better, 1. If i find my anwsers, so be it, 2 if I dont I will when i die, 3. Evaluating what i believe in and having questions on concerning points to me is a serious concern.

Would you mind addressing my earlier questions? I ask them because I've seen someone who had the same or similar issues with the brethren and with Joseph Smith who did go apostate and from my perspective this person is clinging on to pain from her past that is affecting her ability to judge these things clearly. Her anger towards God and others has eventually made their way to anger towards the church - you cannot list a spirit of anger and control that spirit - that spirit will control you.

The adversary's loud and intense efforts to destroy the church started when Joseph Smith was 14. You can bet your buckles that most if not all of the polygamy accusations against Joseph Smith were fabrications - there has come forth zero physical evidence to support these claims. If the lost 116 pages absolutely meant the devil had received a victory and could alter such pages, then was he not busily altering history to discredit the head of the last dispensation?

These concerted efforts that are often rooted in fanaticism and hysteria are evidences themselves that the church is true. If a farm boy made silly claims of seeing angels and God and ancient gold plates, then wouldn't it just be best to ignore these silly claims and the silly people who follow them? This is why so many people don't just quite the mormon church. For some freaskishly odd reason (it's not really odd - but according to their own narrative it's freakishly odd) they are compelled to fight against the church. Why not just walk away and say, "Whew I'm glad I realized THAT was false. Now let's get on with my life and not give it another thought?" They can't do that because the same spirit that caused them to apostatize is still present and is now driving them by the same fuel to fight against God's Kingdom.

https://www.fairmormon.org/answers/Jose ... e_have_any

Again, the presence of a testimony is the absence of doubt. Fill your life with building your testimony and you will change your perspective from, "This is the best I've found" to "This is the Lord's church."

[mes5464]

Ive been a member about 30 years, this is not a I dont believe discussion, just trying to make sense of it all, i go to church, I pay tithing, I live the best i can, ive prayed about the items bellow and I have no anwser.

1. General authorities recieve a living allowance, to be about 120000 plus other benefits per year, one of the main reasons I joined the church was that it was a all volunter non paid ministry. 120000+ a year is more than i have or probably will ever make, money aside I feel I was lied to. This is pay. it is taxed, it is not modest. What is the reasoning?????

Joseph smith had 37 wives, I can live with that, 9 of that were sealed to him were married to other men, some were on missions and didnt know or did not give consent? Emma did not give consent on at least one of them. Huhhh??? One was 14, ?? Again can someone please explain this, Ive done research andive read the church reasoning behind this, I dont agree,

There are many other things that dont seem in harmony with what i feel should be correct blacks and priesthood, racial comments by past authorities, Mountain medow masacre, Bringham Young and his wives ect ect. I question the source or root of the church. Any advice???

I question what I believe, or thought I believe. Again any advice?

With respect to the general authorities living allowance.

Doctrine and Covenants 75:24,26

24 Behold, I say unto you, that it is the duty of the church to assist in supporting the families of those, and also to support the families of those who are called and must needs be sent unto the world to proclaim the gospel unto the world.

This scripture is referring to missionaries. It’s saying that the families of missionaries should be supported.

I do not dispute that this applies to missionaries but aren't the apostles also "called and must needs be sent unto the world to proclaim the gospel unto the world"?

[Serragon]

I don't think most have a problem with the ideas that GA's should receive support from the Church.

The issues appear to be two-fold: First, that the church has not been very transparent about this practice. In fact, it appears they may have been dishonest about it. I did not know for a long time that the GA's received any money. I was taught that there was NO paid ministry at all in the church. This simply was not true. As I have no problem with this practice it really doesn't matter to me, but I can see that for people who found this to be a mark of the true church this could be quite troubling.

The second issue appears to be the amount of compensation provided. There is quite a bit of difference between "a modest living allowance" and $120,000 per year with many living expenses already included. The church handbook states that we are to support life, not life styles when dealing with welfare issues. It would appear that we are supporting a rather lavish lifestyle for the GA's. Add in the fact that this is done with little transparency, and it is understandable that it disturbs people.

It is possible to believe that the GAs are ordained as prophets, seers, and revelators and still believe that they get paid too much and that they have not been transparent enough. We need to have faith in these brethren and believe their prophetic words when spoken. But the brethren need us, the church body, to help keep them from sliding into worldly practices while administering the church. Keeping things like compensation hidden does not help the faith of the members nor does it help the brethren remain apart from the world.

[LDS Physician]

Great advice given here. I especially enjoyed Alaris's advice.

I've been a member all of my life and have explored all of these issues and more. Generally speaking, even prophets are imperfect. Some even make grave errors. Think of Jonah (flat out refused to do what he was asked to...going in the opposite direction the Lord wanted him to), Peter (denied even knowing the Savior three times even the day he was to assume the helm of the infant church)...etc. etc. These men aren't perfect and they have to learn line upon line, precept upon precept in their own personal lives.

Did they sin? yes.
Did they fail? yes.

But did they perform their prophetic duty? Did they accomplish what they were foreordained to do, despite personal failings, sins, etc.? Yes.

I think that we have an expectation for our prophets to be flawless. Our scriptural prophets weren't, why would we expect differently for our modern prophets? No. If you're looking for a perfect prophet, look to Christ. All the other ones were flawed men, like you and me. Flawed men with special duties, but flawed nonetheless.

In regards to the historical findings of Joseph Smith and other prophets doing this, saying that, acting like this or that...you'll never truly know what really happened or what they really felt because almost all of these findings are based on hearsay: the journals of others. You can't trust these second-hand accounts. To me, if Joseph Smith had multiple wives or married a minor or stole money from ______ or drank alcohol after conference....if he did these things then he has to answer to them. For me, I know because of the Holy Ghost that he restored the priesthood, translated the BofM, had the First Vision, and in many other ways restored the gospel of Jesus Christ. If he sinned in other ways, I can't prove it or disprove it so therefore:

I don't care.

Joseph's sins are his sins. He must answer for them and repent and it's none of my business.

I know what I know by the Spirit, however, and cannot deny his role as dispensation head, prophet, etc.

As for our current prophet and apostles, it is the same for me. I know their roles are "true" by the spirit. If they are taking money when they shouldn't (and I don't think they are, but let's say they are) then that's on them...that is their sin and they will need to answer for it.

As for me, I know that I will be responsible for following what they teach because they are anointed and ordained.

I don't think it is wrong to investigate history and learn about what these men said and current say, did and currently do...but when your investigation is over, the ultimate authority is the Lord through his Spirit. "Ask and ye shall receive", "knock and it shall be opened unto you", etc.

I wish you well in your exploration of the gospel, its leaders, and its history! You've joined the only true and living church on the earth, but only the Holy Ghost can let you know that this is the case.

Sincerely,

LDS Physician

[gardener4life]

Friend, what you need is to just spend a day listening to the Book of Mormon while having a prayer in your heart for help from Heavenly Father. If you feel a really good answer to a prayer ...which comes often while putting effort into reading the scriptures then all things fall into place.

[silk]

Friend, what you need is to just spend a day listening to the Book of Mormon while having a prayer in your heart for help from Heavenly Father. If you feel a really good answer to a prayer ...which comes often while putting effort into reading the scriptures then all things fall into place.

I agree with this advice. I remember when I was asking questions and exploring the answers, and filled with periods of doubt. I would struggle intellectually, but the doubt would persist. Then I would sit down and read the scriptures. The Spirit would come back, I would feel peaceful, and everything would be okay again.

The mission president over our area once told of a missionary who came to him and wanted to go home. He had been reading anti-Mormon literature, and didn't feel that he could perform his assignment any more. The mission president counseled with him, gave him some advice about reading the scriptures and the words of modern prophets, and scheduled a time to counsel with him again. The second time he came back, the missionary's countenance had completely changed and he was filled with the Spirit. The mission president asked what had changed. The missionary told him that he started by giving as much time to the scriptures/modern prophets as he did to the anti-Mormon words. As he did this, it was very easy to discern which held light and truth, and which didn't. Over time, he had increased desire to reach the words of light and truth, and less to focus on anything else.

Looking back on it, I've felt extremely humbled at how little it takes for us to doubt the entire church, including the saving doctrines, based on tangential things (like exactly how Joseph Smith translated the golden plates).

[gardener4life]

Friend, what you need is to just spend a day listening to the Book of Mormon while having a prayer in your heart for help from Heavenly Father. If you feel a really good answer to a prayer ...which comes often while putting effort into reading the scriptures then all things fall into place.

I agree with this advice. I remember when I was asking questions and exploring the answers, and filled with periods of doubt. I would struggle intellectually, but the doubt would persist. Then I would sit down and read the scriptures. The Spirit would come back, I would feel peaceful, and everything would be okay again.

The mission president over our area once told of a missionary who came to him and wanted to go home. He had been reading anti-Mormon literature, and didn't feel that he could perform his assignment any more. The mission president counseled with him, gave him some advice about reading the scriptures and the words of modern prophets, and scheduled a time to counsel with him again. The second time he came back, the missionary's countenance had completely changed and he was filled with the Spirit. The mission president asked what had changed. The missionary told him that he started by giving as much time to the scriptures/modern prophets as he did to the anti-Mormon words. As he did this, it was very easy to discern which held light and truth, and which didn't. Over time, he had increased desire to reach the words of light and truth, and less to focus on anything else.

Looking back on it, I've felt extremely humbled at how little it takes for us to doubt the entire church, including the saving doctrines, based on tangential things (like exactly how Joseph Smith translated the golden plates).

I liked how you pointed out that people are getting more time with doubters, haters, and antis than they are with the scriptures. This is a real concern for people who have kids too. We're on the road and outside the house so much that we're lucky if we get any scripture time in for what's going with our lives. We're being pressured to be like this by the world and it makes us vulnerable even when we don't want to be.

[Alaris]

I was just sending LDS Physician a PM about this thread when I realized something very important - something I hope the original poster can get behind and perhaps help him steer back into safe harbor.

One of the tactics of the left - a Saul Alinsky tactic from the book "Rules for Radicals" that was dedicated to Lucifer - is to character assassinate because they cannot win on substance. They cannot win on substance because the substance speaks for itself - substantively.

Anyway, this is exactly what all the Joseph Smith polygamy hearsay is. This is exactly what the brethren's stipend complaint is. Now granted, by their fruits ye shall know them (see my OP in this thread.) However, this church isn't about Joseph Smith or the Brethren. It's about the Lord, His gospel, and His Kingdom. How easy would it be to attack a church on substance if they were not actually the Lord's church, gospel, and kingdom?

The doctrine and works that have come from Joseph Smith are simply amazing - incredible - outlandishly so. Sure plenty of non LDS try to attack us on substance, but the tiny flaws they find - even legitimate ones - pale in the immense shadow cast by the light of truth that has come from this simple farmer - this small and simple means. The works and fruits of Joseph Smith's dispensation are incredible. The adversary wants you to focus on these character assassinations - that is what they are - carefully crafted to cause doubt by doubting the source and focusing on the doubts while the devil snaps his fingers *look over here! Don't look at the amazing truths and fruits of the gospel. Look here! Joseph Smith used his power to get women!*

Now look back over there. The door swings both ways. Could a man who was a womanizer have received the Book of Mormon? Could he have revealed the Lord's voice through the Doctrine and Covenants? Could he have started a church that has become what it is today--an institution that government agencies study to replicate our missionary language program - our welfare program? No way.

[Thinker]

Thanks for your responses, Again, I am not going apostate, I will hold to what i have, I know there is nothing better, 1. If i find my anwsers, so be it, 2 if I dont I will when i die, 3. Evaluating what i believe in and having questions on concerning points to me is a serious concern.

You’re doing good, seeking truth by study and faith. Jefferson gave sound advise: “Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason, than that of blind-folded fear."
To me, the way to worship God is to do what you’re doing - seeking truth rather than fearing it. JS explained that the truth will carve itself & we should seek it wherever it’s found. Someone lds said that if you have the truth it can’t be harmed, and if you don’t have the truth it ought to be harmed.

What concerned me was how and where tithes were being spent. Deut. 14:28-29 explains how gatherers of tithes are supposed to give 1/3 to the poor, yet Oaks admitted no tithes go to the poor, members need to pay extra for that. Also, JS never charged for temple worthiness, and tithe is supposed to be on increase not income - big difference. So, I have several concerns with financial transparency & management.

The polygamy thing is in the past. The racial thing is partly history but because of some residue & BofM scriptures equating righteousness with skin color, some racism persists.

My other concern is the cognitive distortions taught - which discourage healthy, independent thinking. Many in the church suffer from depression and anxiety, which I think could be helped by teaching better thoughts. Ie: “You are either on the Lord’s side or you’re not” is Either-Or/Polarized thinking distortion. Nobody is 100% perfectly on the Lord’s side nor is anyone 100% evil.

As JS suggested, “figure out what portion belongs to you” - take the best (faith & love) and leave the rest.

[djinwa]

Fascinating that we are told of all the great truths we have, but when you question anything, you are told the teachings don't matter and just have faith.

Likewise, we are told we are led by leaders who get inspiration/revelation, but then when things aren't right, we are told they are just human, and to ignore them.

Those who keep a testimony are able to put blinders on. If anything comes into view that might cast doubt, they quickly avert their eyes.

Funny that we claim to have the truth, but yet are so afraid of reality. Almost like we know it isn't true, so have to dodge certain information. As Mark Twain once said, faith is believing what you know ain't so.

The other method of maintaining faith is to discredit those who raise questions. You've been told you are coveting, or angry, etc.

Think of how truth is acheived in science, or in the justice system. If you were to predetermine what you want the outcome to be, then discard or hide contrary evidence, you would be accused of fraud. Yet that is considered honorable in the church.

There are people selling all sorts of stuff. Do you have faith in them all? Once had a bishopric member who sold magic magnets in a pyramid scheme and was a millionaire. When I questioned his business, he testified of many cases of the magnets healing people. One Sunday I heard him testifying of the church, and I wondered what was the difference.

Anyway, if you want to continue in the church, be careful. Avoid reading or thinking unapproved things.

[gardener4life]

I see some things keep coming up again. Yes, the antis and agents of Satan do try to character assassinate Joseph Smith like Alaris said. Good observation. Also I mentioned this on another thread I think but the whole unpaid ministry is slightly skewed I think. The main idea is that the ministers aren't doing a priestcraft, not that they can't be taken care of.

Here's an example; Daniel in the Old Testament was literally starving when travelling (before he went bad)and was allowed by the Lord to partake of offerings without punishment because he was the Lord's servant (at the time...although because this person later fell away I don't like to use him as an example but its what came to mind.)

Example 2; Joseph Smith was persecuted so heavily that it wouldn't have been possible for him to earn a regular income or do a regular job. He was helped along the way and others received blessings by helping him. When members were around him they felt the spirit more even when it was about mundane errands and not an official meeting. People fail to really relate this fact and bring it up of how much hardship some church leaders went through. He was persecuted so heavily in fact that almost none of their children survived to adulthood. The fate of the real servants and apostles is that they will be targets of the adversary. This is part of why there can be an allowance.

Brigham Young also had to sacrifice so badly for the gospel that its unbelievable he did so. He left on a mission to England while his kids were in dangerous straights and he himself deathly ill. Yet he hung on. Antis will never like this story portrayed because it shows how stalwart some leaders ARE (and still are in this day. Their mettle shows seeing the sacrifice.) This example and the other one are good to show that sometimes leaders are supported because they've already given the widow's might so many times that they need a little help. (Yes Widows might is a pun here XD )

On the other hand...

Seeing mega church leaders buy lamborghinis and have collections of BMWs and using tithing Money to live a King Noah life style.

I think its more relevant to compare it to King Noah and how he lived. King Noah's lifestyle was pulling others down and confusing others. I really only need King Noah listed here for a bad example. He literally destroyed and pulled down his own country. By identifying his priestcraft we can see also how our own government is in such danger by the many years of King Noahs we had before Trump. (I do think people are trying to fix this now. I hope things keep getting better.)

Then again I would point out how Alaris also hinted at something else for me to mention....

Sometimes people who have 'been living hard' and have emotional scars sort of project that onto others that don't deserve it. They don't always mean to but it happens when they get riled up. And because of emotional or spiritual scars they naturally sometimes have an uncalm spirit...and it just happens that they end up casting doubt on good people. Antis and others do this to good church members. it's like they are attracted to do so because it really makes them grind their teeth that other people haven't had to live hard like they have. And then they end up without even realizing it assassinating character of others. I've got two family members that do this to me often. They mentally project a false image of me persecuting them when I don't, when its the other way around just because this type of experiences cause them to hate that which is good in life and those that represent good. This I think too is why people will always be going after Joseph Smith (and others) to destroy their character.

[gardener4life]

I had some new perspective on this since last post. I wasn't consciously thinking about it but I was reading in Hosea of the Old Testament. Specifically chapters 12, 13, and well basically the last 3 chapters of this book. This back has to do with the discipline of Ephraim, and Ephraim's trouble with worldly things infecting them in several time periods. Hosea is relating it in his day but also references it in terms of in the days of Moses, and in the latter days.

Hosea 13:4 Yet I am the Lord thy God from the land of Egypt, and thou shalt know no god but me: for there is no saviour beside me. (What is it saying? The Lord will pick his servants that only know him and are not Baal (golden calf) Worshippers. He will pick those out of the world.
2 And now they sin more and more, and have made them molten images of their silver, and idols according to their own understanding, all of it the work of the craftsmen: they say of them, Let the men that sacrifice kiss the calves. (Verse 2 shows what he is trying to avoid...)
9 ¶ O Israel, thou hast destroyed thyself; but in me is thine help.
6 According to their pasture, so were they filled; they were filled, and their heart was exalted; therefore have they forgotten me.
15 ¶ Though he be fruitful among his brethren, an east wind shall come, the wind of the Lord shall come up from the wilderness, and his spring shall become dry, and his fountain shall be dried up: he shall spoil the treasure of all pleasant vessels.
5 ¶ I did know thee in the wilderness, in the land of great drought.

OK, basically I could keep pulling out verses all day. But the Lord has very strong wording against Ephraim in Chapters 12, 13, and 14. The VERY strong wording, shows that the Lord doesn't want golden calf worshippers in Ephraim nor in its leaders. This still has reference to priestcrafts and the fat of living above what you need.

The end goal?

8 Ephraim shall say, What have I to do any more with idols? I have heard him, and observed him: I am like a green fir tree. From me is thy fruit found.
9 Who is wise, and he shall understand these things? prudent, and he shall know them? for the ways of the Lord are right, and the just shall walk in them: but the transgressors shall fall therein.

Anyone can think doubts of the apostles and prophets. But I thought when I read this OK...so if the Lord is speaking to Ephraim specifically in Hosea...and referencing the Golden Calf of Moses' day and the idol worshippers...and says they will fall...is it any wonder he's trying to have his leaders separate from the world?

He cared for Joseph Smith directly, and Brigham Young...supported by the church. Why? We talked about priestcrafts. That holds true.
But this thinking about it in terms of how upset the Lord was that time and again Ephraim was filled with Baal worship, idol worship, and golden calves....it makes sense that he's keeping the leaders separate from the world by supporting them directly from within rather than bringing in someone of the 'world' who had been involved with this gross infestation of worldly riches type of worship.

Hosea knew his stuff. It's also interesting that if you listen to the spirit, Hosea is revealing that Ephraim was the group of people that pitched the golden calf idea to Aaron to make while Moses was getting the commandments. He reveals our tribe, Ephraim, has a weakness for getting caught up in the world.

So no wonder the apostles and prophets get taken care of. The Lord is trying to keep them away from the Golden Calves.