Gay brother of Mormon apostle

[JohnnyL]

https://www.deseretnews.com/article/865 ... urney.html

"Gay brother of Mormon apostle shares his spiritual journey"
(It's actually a plug for his book.)

from the article:
Having no concept of how to reconcile being gay and Mormon, the couple's marriage was annulled and Christofferson asked to be excommunicated from the church. He began a long relationship with a partner and was happy, he said.

"I was a very happy non-Mormon and now I’m a very happy Mormon again," Christofferson said. "I think we oversimplify if we simply imagine there is no happiness outside the structure that we understand. There are friendships and the enjoyments of life and everything else, and still a desire to be a good, moral person, to make the world a better place. Happiness comes from all those things."
...
Being away from the church was not a dark time for Christofferson, but he missed the higher meaning the gospel added to his life.

"One of the things I was looking for as I came back to church was again that feeling of a higher purpose, or a greater meaning of my life beyond enjoyment," he said. "This is where I find it. There are also people that find higher purpose or greater meaning in other places."
...
Eventually Christofferson's desire to return to the LDS Church resulted in him ending his relationship with his partner, a separation which was grieved not only by Tom but also his family who had come to love the man.

Any insight? I can understand enjoying life outside the gospel, but... Is this someone who is truly converted?

[Kaarno]

Whether he is truly converted or not our judgment call to make. Our purpose is to welcome him back and celebrate his return. This is what the story of the prodigal son represents to me.

[shadow]

...
Eventually Christofferson's desire to return to the LDS Church resulted in him ending his relationship with his partner, a separation which was grieved not only by Tom but also his family who had come to love the man.

Any insight? I can understand enjoying life outside the gospel, but... Is this someone who is truly converted?

Claiming that his desire to return to church resulted in ending his relationship says a lot IMO.

[iWriteStuff]

If you had a great sin that both A) defined who you are as a person yet B) kept you from enjoying the blessings of full fellowship in the Restored Gospel of Jesus Christ, how willing would you be to give it up?

Not everyone can walk away from sin like that. If this were my brother, I'd be honored to claim him.

[Robin Hood]

My problem with Tom Christofferson is two-fold.
1. Why not just come back to church quietly, without all the hype?
2. He appears to be making money from it in the form of a book launch.

Crime may not pay, but sin clearly does.

[inho]

My problem with Tom Christofferson is two-fold.
1. Why not just come back to church quietly, without all the hype?

Well, he has been a somewhat public figure for some time. Especially, he was interviewed quite a lot after the Handbook changes in Nov. 2015.

2. He appears to be making money from it in the form of a book launch.

Crime may not pay, but sin clearly does.

That is a more valid concern. However, writing devotional books doesn't really make you rich. And his story is quite extraordinary, so why not to write about it?

[RAB]

My problem with Tom Christofferson is two-fold.
1. Why not just come back to church quietly, without all the hype?

Well, he has been a somewhat public figure for some time. Especially, he was interviewed quite a lot after the Handbook changes in Nov. 2015.

2. He appears to be making money from it in the form of a book launch.

Crime may not pay, but sin clearly does.

That is a more valid concern. However, writing devotional books doesn't really make you rich. And his story is quite extraordinary, so why not to write about it?

It may be that he feels his story may help others who struggle with the same thing. Some people just need to see others make a decision and be happy to get up enough courage to make an equally life-changing decision. Reading about Brother Christofferson's journey may just help them do that.

[Robin Hood]

My problem with Tom Christofferson is two-fold.
1. Why not just come back to church quietly, without all the hype?

Well, he has been a somewhat public figure for some time. Especially, he was interviewed quite a lot after the Handbook changes in Nov. 2015.

2. He appears to be making money from it in the form of a book launch.

Crime may not pay, but sin clearly does.

That is a more valid concern. However, writing devotional books doesn't really make you rich. And his story is quite extraordinary, so why not to write about it?

It may be that he feels his story may help others who struggle with the same thing. Some people just need to see others make a decision and be happy to get up enough courage to make an equally life-changing decision. Reading about Brother Christofferson's journey may just help them do that.

I get that.
But why not publish it in the Ensign, or online etc?
In order for someone to benefit from the story of his journey from sin, they have to part with their money; and I think that is wrong.

[RAB]

My problem with Tom Christofferson is two-fold.
1. Why not just come back to church quietly, without all the hype?

Well, he has been a somewhat public figure for some time. Especially, he was interviewed quite a lot after the Handbook changes in Nov. 2015.

2. He appears to be making money from it in the form of a book launch.

Crime may not pay, but sin clearly does.

That is a more valid concern. However, writing devotional books doesn't really make you rich. And his story is quite extraordinary, so why not to write about it?

It may be that he feels his story may help others who struggle with the same thing. Some people just need to see others make a decision and be happy to get up enough courage to make an equally life-changing decision. Reading about Brother Christofferson's journey may just help them do that.

I get that.
But why not publish it in the Ensign, or online etc?
In order for someone to benefit from the story of his journey from sin, they have to part with their money; and I think that is wrong.

True, but he may have wanted to go into great detail. The Ensign doesn't publish lengthy stories. As for why not online? I couldn't tell you. I just choose not to assume that he was trying to get rich off of his story. It really will be a pretty small audience for the book anyway.

[Daniel2]

My problem with Tom Christofferson is two-fold.
1. Why not just come back to church quietly, without all the hype?

Well, he has been a somewhat public figure for some time. Especially, he was interviewed quite a lot after the Handbook changes in Nov. 2015.

2. He appears to be making money from it in the form of a book launch.

Crime may not pay, but sin clearly does.

That is a more valid concern. However, writing devotional books doesn't really make you rich. And his story is quite extraordinary, so why not to write about it?

It may be that he feels his story may help others who struggle with the same thing. Some people just need to see others make a decision and be happy to get up enough courage to make an equally life-changing decision. Reading about Brother Christofferson's journey may just help them do that.

I get that.
But why not publish it in the Ensign, or online etc?
In order for someone to benefit from the story of his journey from sin, they have to part with their money; and I think that is wrong.

Um... have you been to a Deseret Book or Seagull Book and Tape recently....?

Do you know how many LDS authors' for-profit books stocked on shelves there tell personal witnesses of sin to redemption?

Are you likewise disturbed by the hundreds of for-profit books written by prophets and apostles....?

If not... Mote, meet beam...

[Robin Hood]

Well, he has been a somewhat public figure for some time. Especially, he was interviewed quite a lot after the Handbook changes in Nov. 2015.


That is a more valid concern. However, writing devotional books doesn't really make you rich. And his story is quite extraordinary, so why not to write about it?

It may be that he feels his story may help others who struggle with the same thing. Some people just need to see others make a decision and be happy to get up enough courage to make an equally life-changing decision. Reading about Brother Christofferson's journey may just help them do that.

I get that.
But why not publish it in the Ensign, or online etc?
In order for someone to benefit from the story of his journey from sin, they have to part with their money; and I think that is wrong.

Um... have you been to a Deseret Book or Seagull Book and Tape recently....?

Do you know how many LDS authors' for-profit books stocked on shelves there tell personal witnesses of sin to redemption?

Are you likewise disturbed by the hundreds of for-profit books written by prophets and apostles....?

If not... Mote, meet beam...

Absolutely I am!
In fact I said as much on a recent thread on this forum.
I never buy such books by the GA's because I believe it's a form of priestcraft.

[Daniel2]

It may be that he feels his story may help others who struggle with the same thing. Some people just need to see others make a decision and be happy to get up enough courage to make an equally life-changing decision. Reading about Brother Christofferson's journey may just help them do that.

I get that.
But why not publish it in the Ensign, or online etc?
In order for someone to benefit from the story of his journey from sin, they have to part with their money; and I think that is wrong.

Um... have you been to a Deseret Book or Seagull Book and Tape recently....?

Do you know how many LDS authors' for-profit books stocked on shelves there tell personal witnesses of sin to redemption?

Are you likewise disturbed by the hundreds of for-profit books written by prophets and apostles....?

If not... Mote, meet beam...

Absolutely I am!
In fact I said as much on a recent thread on this forum.
I never buy such books by the GA's because I believe it's a form of priestcraft.

I'm glad you're consistent...

I can understand the "Priestcraft" allegations against those that are allegedly God's mouthpieces (especially since they already collect a healthy $120,000 annual salary and additional benefits from the offerings of those they're called to serve).

Is it really that disturbing that non-professional-clergy authors write books about religious experiences, when they put in the time, energy, and effort to write a book (frankly, regardless of subject), and still hope for some type of compensation for the resources they spent in compiling a book? (I hardly believe Mr. Christofferson--or any other LDS author targeting largely LDS audiences--is making large sums of money from his book, and imagine it's more a labor of love for him... though I could be wrong. My mom's neighbor in Pleasant Grove is a published author and wrote a series of books about Joseph Smith, and although his books have done a decent job, he hasn't really 'gotten rich' off them). Or do you feel that non-professional religious authors should always expect not to be compensated for their time?

If that's the case, do you believe non-religious writers should likewise not expect compensation for their non-religious works?

D

[oneClimbs]

My 2 cents. Books are great, I love them and I'm glad that people take the time and effort to write and publish them. I don't think you get "rich" off books unless they are massive bestsellers that maybe get made into movies. Publishing is a platform for the dissemination of information and I think there are few that make any significant income from them.

Books cost money to make and when you buy a book you are purchasing the raw materials and supporting the supply chain that allows the book making process to exist. The author is going to make very little from this. Sure, putting it online for free as well would be good, but then again, unless you use free blogging solutions (and an entire book in a blog post is not a good way to engage a book) you'd have to pay for hosting, web design, etc.

Also, a lot of times book publishers are looking for good stories that people will want to pay to read, it is how they stay in business and it's a legitimate business.

I created a set of symbolism cards and sold them myself and then on Sugardoodle. I made money off the sale of they physical cards, but I also created a website http://ldssymbols.com where all the information on the cards and more is available for free. Note that keeping this site up and managing it costs me both time and money. I sell the cards because I invested a couple grand of my own money to create them and I assembled by hand every single one of the 1000 packages I ordered. Whatever money I made off the endeavor ended up being mostly a wash. I didn't do it for the money though, I wanted to create something cool to share with the world.

Likewise, I think Brother Christofferson feels that his story could probably positively impact many people and sharing it in the form of a book where a great amount of detail can be shared in a very convenient way to explore it is fine. I don't think this is priestcraft at all. Where it becomes priestcrafty is when you try to glorify yourself instead of God and require someone's money to dispense salvation to them.

[Robin Hood]

I get that.
But why not publish it in the Ensign, or online etc?
In order for someone to benefit from the story of his journey from sin, they have to part with their money; and I think that is wrong.

Um... have you been to a Deseret Book or Seagull Book and Tape recently....?

Do you know how many LDS authors' for-profit books stocked on shelves there tell personal witnesses of sin to redemption?

Are you likewise disturbed by the hundreds of for-profit books written by prophets and apostles....?

If not... Mote, meet beam...

Absolutely I am!
In fact I said as much on a recent thread on this forum.
I never buy such books by the GA's because I believe it's a form of priestcraft.

I'm glad you're consistent...

I can understand the "Priestcraft" allegations against those that are allegedly God's mouthpieces (especially since they already collect a healthy $120,000 annual salary and additional benefits from the offerings of those they're called to serve).

Is it really that disturbing that non-professional-clergy authors write books about religious experiences, when they put in the time, energy, and effort to write a book (frankly, regardless of subject), and still hope for some type of compensation for the resources they spent in compiling a book? (I hardly believe Mr. Christofferson--or any other LDS author targeting largely LDS audiences--is making large sums of money from his book, and imagine it's more a labor of love for him... though I could be wrong. My mom's neighbor in Pleasant Grove is a published author and wrote a series of books about Joseph Smith, and although his books have done a decent job, he hasn't really 'gotten rich' off them). Or do you feel that non-professional religious authors should always expect not to be compensated for their time?

If that's the case, do you believe non-religious writers should likewise not expect compensation for their non-religious works?

D

But your mother's neighbour isn't an apostles brother.

[RAB]

I get that.
But why not publish it in the Ensign, or online etc?
In order for someone to benefit from the story of his journey from sin, they have to part with their money; and I think that is wrong.

Um... have you been to a Deseret Book or Seagull Book and Tape recently....?

Do you know how many LDS authors' for-profit books stocked on shelves there tell personal witnesses of sin to redemption?

Are you likewise disturbed by the hundreds of for-profit books written by prophets and apostles....?

If not... Mote, meet beam...

Absolutely I am!
In fact I said as much on a recent thread on this forum.
I never buy such books by the GA's because I believe it's a form of priestcraft.

I'm glad you're consistent...

I can understand the "Priestcraft" allegations against those that are allegedly God's mouthpieces (especially since they already collect a healthy $120,000 annual salary and additional benefits from the offerings of those they're called to serve).

Is it really that disturbing that non-professional-clergy authors write books about religious experiences, when they put in the time, energy, and effort to write a book (frankly, regardless of subject), and still hope for some type of compensation for the resources they spent in compiling a book? (I hardly believe Mr. Christofferson--or any other LDS author targeting largely LDS audiences--is making large sums of money from his book, and imagine it's more a labor of love for him... though I could be wrong. My mom's neighbor in Pleasant Grove is a published author and wrote a series of books about Joseph Smith, and although his books have done a decent job, he hasn't really 'gotten rich' off them). Or do you feel that non-professional religious authors should always expect not to be compensated for their time?

If that's the case, do you believe non-religious writers should likewise not expect compensation for their non-religious works?

D

Just wanted to clarify one point. From what I understand, the salary for GAs does not come from tithes and offerings. It comes from the for-profit Corporate entities...Deseret Book, Zion's Bank, etc. Many of these bretheren sit on the corporate boards of those entities, and their compensation is far less than other corporate board members of Corporations. So, it is essentially like Joseph Smith running the Little Red Brickstore, or the Mansion House as a means of support for his family. I just wanted to point that out because tithing, fast offerings, and other donations are not used as salary for the GAs...although, it wouldn't really bother me personally if it were. These men are at the Lord's work full time.

I would also point out that $120,000 is probably a lot less than they used to make, many of them having been attorneys, businessmen, and doctors. Not to brag, but I make a little more than that as a government employee. I have a smallish house (less than 2,000 sq. feet) and five kids, and there isn't much left after taxes, tithing, offerings, retirement savings, and living expenses for seven people. It seems like a pretty modest salary in the U.S., but I get that it would not translate well to Latin America or other countries.

[Daniel2]

Um... have you been to a Deseret Book or Seagull Book and Tape recently....?

Do you know how many LDS authors' for-profit books stocked on shelves there tell personal witnesses of sin to redemption?

Are you likewise disturbed by the hundreds of for-profit books written by prophets and apostles....?

If not... Mote, meet beam...

Absolutely I am!
In fact I said as much on a recent thread on this forum.
I never buy such books by the GA's because I believe it's a form of priestcraft.

I'm glad you're consistent...

I can understand the "Priestcraft" allegations against those that are allegedly God's mouthpieces (especially since they already collect a healthy $120,000 annual salary and additional benefits from the offerings of those they're called to serve).

Is it really that disturbing that non-professional-clergy authors write books about religious experiences, when they put in the time, energy, and effort to write a book (frankly, regardless of subject), and still hope for some type of compensation for the resources they spent in compiling a book? (I hardly believe Mr. Christofferson--or any other LDS author targeting largely LDS audiences--is making large sums of money from his book, and imagine it's more a labor of love for him... though I could be wrong. My mom's neighbor in Pleasant Grove is a published author and wrote a series of books about Joseph Smith, and although his books have done a decent job, he hasn't really 'gotten rich' off them). Or do you feel that non-professional religious authors should always expect not to be compensated for their time?

If that's the case, do you believe non-religious writers should likewise not expect compensation for their non-religious works?

D

But your mother's neighbour isn't an apostles brother.

Meaning....?

Are you suggesting if you're related to an existing church leader, you shouldn't publish anything for profit?

[Robin Hood]

Absolutely I am!
In fact I said as much on a recent thread on this forum.
I never buy such books by the GA's because I believe it's a form of priestcraft.

I'm glad you're consistent...

I can understand the "Priestcraft" allegations against those that are allegedly God's mouthpieces (especially since they already collect a healthy $120,000 annual salary and additional benefits from the offerings of those they're called to serve).

Is it really that disturbing that non-professional-clergy authors write books about religious experiences, when they put in the time, energy, and effort to write a book (frankly, regardless of subject), and still hope for some type of compensation for the resources they spent in compiling a book? (I hardly believe Mr. Christofferson--or any other LDS author targeting largely LDS audiences--is making large sums of money from his book, and imagine it's more a labor of love for him... though I could be wrong. My mom's neighbor in Pleasant Grove is a published author and wrote a series of books about Joseph Smith, and although his books have done a decent job, he hasn't really 'gotten rich' off them). Or do you feel that non-professional religious authors should always expect not to be compensated for their time?

If that's the case, do you believe non-religious writers should likewise not expect compensation for their non-religious works?

D

But your mother's neighbour isn't an apostles brother.

Meaning....?

Are you suggesting if you're related to an existing church leader, you shouldn't publish anything for profit?

I'm suggesting the name carries sufficient weight to ensure healthy sales figures.
If the authors name was Daniel Two I would suggest there would be far less interest and far fewer sales.

[JohnnyL]

I guess Kaarno said it best for me. And yes, I am happy for his return, and anyone else's.

I just feel really uncomfortable that his story and book are given so much attention, especially when I read those things.

I realized years ago that if someone doesn't feel remorse for sin, they haven't truly repented.
Can someone live a lifestyle of sin, and not feel remorse?
Can someone be excommunicated, live a lifestyle of sin, and be very happy?
Is it okay if you just need something good to fill your life, and you can always be happy?
Is it JUST "a higher purpose" that was missing--and nothing more? That others can find it in other ways, and it's all the same?
Why would I grieve that someone breaks up because they want to obey the commandments, and it wasn't good for them anyway, in the right ways?
(Why would I grieve when my sister gets divorced from a cheating, abusive, lazy husband? Heck, I wished he had changed and I still do, but I jumped for joy.)

I can't condone all the OP statements, and I don't like that this very long ad for a book in Deseret News had so many things like that in it.

There are ways to get rich off of books, and I'm sure yes, he'll get rich off of them, but what impact will his "teachings" have? Having heard just a few, I wonder what else there will be. And I worry about the problems it will cause, because to me it's like "he really understands because he's an apostle's brother" > what God might have taught, or teach, to an apostle.

///
I generally don't buy those books, either. Although to be fairer, I believe that many, if not all, of the ones written by the apostles are "nonprofit."
I don't support those fireside speakers. And if EFY is so great, why isn't it a church program?? If those stories can fit into and support something different and practical, okay, but I can't don't want to imagine putting my spiritual experiences into a paid whatever (book, fireside, movie, etc.). To me, those are religious works, and generally priestcraft.

(By the way, a lot of these "books cost money" arguments work really well also when you substitute "energy healing costs money".)

[Robin Hood]

I guess Kaarno said it best for me. And yes, I am happy for his return, and anyone else's.

I just feel really uncomfortable that his story and book are given so much attention, especially when I read those things.

I realized years ago that if someone doesn't feel remorse for sin, they haven't truly repented.
Can someone live a lifestyle of sin, and not feel remorse?
Can someone be excommunicated, live a lifestyle of sin, and be very happy?
Is it okay if you just need something good to fill your life, and you can always be happy?
Is it JUST "a higher purpose" that was missing--and nothing more? That others can find it in other ways, and it's all the same?
Why would I grieve that someone breaks up because they want to obey the commandments, and it wasn't good for them anyway, in the right ways?
(Why would I grieve when my sister gets divorced from a cheating, abusive, lazy husband? Heck, I wished he had changed and I still do, but I jumped for joy.)

I can't condone all the OP statements, and I don't like that this very long ad for a book in Deseret News had so many things like that in it.

There are ways to get rich off of books, and I'm sure yes, he'll get rich off of them, but what impact will his "teachings" have? Having heard just a few, I wonder what else there will be. And I worry about the problems it will cause, because to me it's like "he really understands because he's an apostle's brother" > what God might have taught, or teach, to an apostle.

///
I generally don't buy those books, either. Although to be fairer, I believe that many, if not all, of the ones written by the apostles are "nonprofit."
I don't support those fireside speakers. And if EFY is so great, why isn't it a church program?? If those stories can fit into and support something different and practical, okay, but I can't don't want to imagine putting my spiritual experiences into a paid whatever (book, fireside, movie, etc.). To me, those are religious works, and generally priestcraft.

(By the way, a lot of these "books cost money" arguments work really well also when you substitute "energy healing costs money".)

Well said, JohnnyL.

[Lizzy60]

I believe Tom's message is very detrimental, especially to the young LGBT at the events where he is speaking. He is basically saying, live the life that makes you happy now, and then you can change your mind later if you decide to come back to the church. Either way, your family and friends are supposed to love and accept your choices, and your partner or same-sex spouse, or they are not following church mandates.

Have your cake and eat it too. His statements above do not express any remorse for the grave sins he committed in his sexual acts with his same-sex partner. After all, he was HAPPY.

We are going down the rabbit hole fast. The young LDS LGBT of today are probably expecting their lifestyle choice of gay sex to be completely accepted by the church before too many years have passed, and I don't blame them for this expectation.

[drtanner]

And if EFY is so great, why isn't it a church program?? If those stories can fit into and support something different and practical, okay, but I can't don't want to imagine putting my spiritual experiences into a paid whatever (book, fireside, movie, etc.). To me, those are religious works, and generally priestcraft.

(By the way, a lot of these "books cost money" arguments work really well also when you substitute "energy healing costs money".)

Do you consider teaching seminary or institute and getting paid priestcraft?

[Robin Hood]

I believe Tom's message is very detrimental, especially to the young LGBT at the events where he is speaking. He is basically saying, live the life that makes you happy now, and then you can change your mind later if you decide to come back to the church. Either way, your family and friends are supposed to love and accept your choices, and your partner or same-sex spouse, or they are not following church mandates.

Have your cake and eat it too. His statements above do not express any remorse for the grave sins he committed in his sexual acts with his same-sex partner. After all, he was HAPPY.

We are going down the rabbit hole fast. The young LDS LGBT of today are probably expecting their lifestyle choice of gay sex to be completely accepted by the church before too many years have passed, and I don't blame them for this expectation.

I agree with you Lizzy60.
Wolves are entering the flock; they're not even bothering to dress as sheep these days.

[JohnnyL]

And if EFY is so great, why isn't it a church program?? If those stories can fit into and support something different and practical, okay, but I can't don't want to imagine putting my spiritual experiences into a paid whatever (book, fireside, movie, etc.). To me, those are religious works, and generally priestcraft.

(By the way, a lot of these "books cost money" arguments work really well also when you substitute "energy healing costs money".)

Do you consider teaching seminary or institute and getting paid priestcraft?

Yes, I pretty much do.
Seeing as all my seminary and institute teachers were volunteer, including my father, my brother, and me, maybe even more so.

[Robin Hood]

And if EFY is so great, why isn't it a church program?? If those stories can fit into and support something different and practical, okay, but I can't don't want to imagine putting my spiritual experiences into a paid whatever (book, fireside, movie, etc.). To me, those are religious works, and generally priestcraft.

(By the way, a lot of these "books cost money" arguments work really well also when you substitute "energy healing costs money".)

Do you consider teaching seminary or institute and getting paid priestcraft?

Yes, I pretty much do.
Seeing as all my seminary and institute teachers were volunteer, including my father, my brother, and me, maybe even more so.

I taught seminary and institute as a volunteer too.
I've never really understood why some get paid.

[drtanner]

And if EFY is so great, why isn't it a church program?? If those stories can fit into and support something different and practical, okay, but I can't don't want to imagine putting my spiritual experiences into a paid whatever (book, fireside, movie, etc.). To me, those are religious works, and generally priestcraft.

(By the way, a lot of these "books cost money" arguments work really well also when you substitute "energy healing costs money".)

Do you consider teaching seminary or institute and getting paid priestcraft?

Yes, I pretty much do.
Seeing as all my seminary and institute teachers were volunteer, including my father, my brother, and me, maybe even more so.

When I read the book of mormon Alma 1:12,16 in particular I think there may be more to the definition of priestcraft.

Do you believe President Packer had the sacred experiences and witness he so often declared but practiced priestcraft? He was employed by the CES his whole life prior to being called as an apostle. If you do then what was the difference in what he was doing in terms of priestcraft? If you don't, do think he was lying or trying to deceive the saints all those years?