And yet nowadays I hear about all kinds of female teacher-male student affairs, and little of the other (not helping Feminism!). I also know that while much is true, some is not--I know of girls who accused male teachers and laughed that they had won the power struggle.Sarah wrote: ↑October 18th, 2017, 5:13 pmI really like that you give evidence to back up your complaint and give a practical solution as to how we can combat unequal treatment of men and women. We shouldn't all be laughing or agreeing when someone makes a disparaging remark about his or her spouse or the opposite sex. Personally, when I hear someone say his or her spouse is the better half, I think that that person probably sees and acknowledges his or her own weaknesses, and wants to acknowledge that. Lately in our new ward and in past wards, I hear a lot of women praising their husbands. So I don't think it's just men praising their wives.Rensai wrote: ↑October 18th, 2017, 3:48 pmWhy then are women allowed to teach a primary class alone, but a man cannot? I think the point of the thread is that you can prove beyond any reasonable requirement that the church does in fact treat men and women very differently and it is very pervasive. Just go listen/read a random sampling of talks from the priesthood session of conference vs the Women's session. There is a night and day difference.Crackers wrote: ↑October 18th, 2017, 12:02 pm I was simply stating that my experience has been vastly different than many who are posting here with regard to this: Some posters are putting out the opinion that the church is overlooking women’s sins and compounding men’s. (Which is completely untrue. Even if you find examples of this is in individual areas and wards, it does not mean THE CHURCH is doing it or that it is pervasive.)
Here is an example for you.
First, president Monson talking to the priesthood in 2011.
Why does he seem to automatically assume the Women's requests are truthful? How do they truly know the women are doing all they can to make it work and the men are not? Why not berate the women for all these divorce requests? If you read between the lines a bit here, it boils down to men suck, women are great, its all the Men's fault that these divorces are happening. That is exactly the kind of stereotyping everyone has been complaining about. You won't find a talk like that speaking against the women in this way. Here's another snippet from the same talk.Now, brethren, I turn to another subject about which I feel impressed to address you. In the three years since I was sustained as President of the Church, I believe the saddest and most discouraging responsibility I have each week is the handling of cancellations of sealings. Each one was preceded by a joyous marriage in the house of the Lord, where a loving couple was beginning a new life together and looking forward to spending the rest of eternity with each other. And then months and years go by, and for one reason or another, love dies. It may be the result of financial problems, lack of communication, uncontrolled tempers, interference from in-laws, entanglement in sin. There are any number of reasons. In most cases divorce does not have to be the outcome.
The vast majority of requests for cancellations of sealings come from women who tried desperately to make a go of the marriage but who, in the final analysis, could not overcome the problems.
Again, its the Men's fault that they are putting off marriage, no mention of it being on women at all and in this snippet he quotes two other past presidents saying much the same thing.Now, I have thought a lot lately about you young men who are of an age to marry but who have not yet felt to do so. I see lovely young ladies who desire to be married and to raise families, and yet their opportunities are limited because so many young men are postponing marriage.
This is not a new situation. Much has been said concerning this matter by past Presidents of the Church. I share with you just one or two examples of their counsel.
Said President Harold B. Lee, “We are not doing our duty as holders of the priesthood when we go beyond the marriageable age and withhold ourselves from an honorable marriage to these lovely women.”6
President Gordon B. Hinckley said this: “My heart reaches out to … our single sisters, who long for marriage and cannot seem to find it. … I have far less sympathy for the young men, who under the customs of our society, have the prerogative to take the initiative in these matters but in so many cases fail to do so.”7
Contrast that to what women hear in their sessions. Its nothing but an endless stream of praises.
Holland, 2015.or here's an even more egregious example from Holland, April 1997 general conference.To all of our mothers everywhere, past, present, or future, I say, “Thank you. Thank you for giving birth, for shaping souls, for forming character, and for demonstrating the pure love of Christ.” To Mother Eve, to Sarah, Rebekah, and Rachel, to Mary of Nazareth, and to a Mother in Heaven, I say, “Thank you for your crucial role in fulfilling the purposes of eternity.” To all mothers in every circumstance, including those who struggle—and all will—I say, “Be peaceful. Believe in God and yourself. You are doing better than you think you are. In fact, you are saviors on Mount Zion,13 and like the Master you follow, your love ‘never faileth.’14 ” I can pay no higher tribute to anyone. In the name of Jesus Christ, amen.
http://www.ldschurchnewsarchive.com/art ... thers.html
This is straight up pandering. Lets apply an ounce of critical thinking and its clear its not true at all. Mothers collectively are doing terrifically well? Really? What about the mothers who dump their kids in daycare every day all day so they can buy nicer stuff and barely bother to raise them at all? Who's raising all the whining snowflakes, criminals, etc then? That must be the work of the fathers I guess. Society abounds with poorly raised children, but that's not what women want to hear so sure, mothers are all just great. Then he says that being a mother is evidence of the trust God has in them. What about women who cannot have children? God doesn't trust them I guess, but he does trust mothers who murder their babies, get them addicted to drugs before they are born, abuse them, etc. If you believe this statement is an honest assessment of mothers I'd like to sell you some ocean front property in Arizona."May I say to mothers collectively, in the name of the Lord, you are magnificent. You are doing terrifically well. The very fact that you have been given such a responsibility is everlasting evidence of the trust your Father in Heaven has in you.
So there are two night and day differences in how the church talks to men vs women. I think they are both pretty typical, but I'd love to be shown wrong. Show me the talks where women are blamed for all the divorces like the men are, or where they are blamed for much of anything bad. Show me where women are berated for porn like men are constantly. Sure, its a bigger problem for men, but its growing fast among women, but I have yet to hear a church talk ever associate that problem with women or talk about their problems with it.
As another fun exercise, something I've done several times while attending church in the Idaho/Utah area, try counting how many disparaging remarks are made toward men in church vs women. You have to be thinking about it and paying attention to get a good count because its so commonplace that most people hardly even notice it anymore; all the crappy jokes about women being the better half, etc. It adds up. In most of my tests, there are at least 4-5 disparaging remarks about men throughout one weekend of church meetings. For the women, it is usually zero, but sometimes 1-2 comments will pop up in priesthood or something if some guys start joking about their wives shopping too much or something like that. It has never gone beyond that very mild level of criticism though, and really isn't harmful either because it isn't stating that women are inferior, just teasing a little about a common trait many have. Unlike the jokes about men, that often allude to or outright state women are better. I also know from talking to others that many men actually truly do feel second class to their wives in the church these days and think that is good and right.
You can ignore the problem all you want, but it will only get worse. It is affecting all men in the states to some degree or another. Some will go with it and just roll over and accept their second class status, others will leave the church, etc. Either way, its a lie and its not doing anyone any good, least of all, the prideful women who go around talking about how there will be more women in the CK, openly criticize their husbands to the other women, etc while being completely oblivious to their own glaring pride and faults.
I firmly believe feminism has been mostly a huge attack on men, women, and the family from Satan from the get go and has only gotten worse. Yes, in the past there probably were a few legitimate grievances mixed in, but those issues are long past and it has morphed into an all out assault on both gender's roles and the family in general, and the evidence shows very clearly that the church has been caught up in that as well. We can't do anything about the disparity in conference talks, but we can at least make sure our own comments on our own wards are as fair as possible and we can choose our responses to others' comments as well. Imagine if when some dumb guy tries to joke about how much better women are, we all didn't laugh and encourage more of that stereotyping. What if we just let the awkward silence hit him to show disapproval and help him learn that that is wrong. We could make a difference on this problem, or, we can do nothing and keep pretending all is well.
As for men not being let alone with children, I know at least when working with the cub scouts, the rule is the same for men and women - you have to have two adults at all times. So I don't see why this couldn't be a policy change to make things equal, but you then put a huge burden on the Primary for filling callings. So I'm fine with this rule, even though it is unequal. I think if you expect the brethren to call out women and point out woman's differences and responsibilities, you have to be willing to accept that men are different, and now-a-day's their weaknesses have made it harder for women and children to be able to trust them.
And, I'd like to take this opportunity to show that whatever might be true, in MY experience, and therefore anyone with an opposing point of view needs to check themself, , I have never known a male teacher do anything to anyone (except a stake presidency counselor who groomed his next wife from older YW), but I have had a few female teachers that did some really... un-lady-like things to my children, such as dragging one crying and rug burning across the church and handing them off to me because "they wouldn't obey me." I also had a 2nd grade teacher who made me sit on her lap--yes, very uncomfortable, especially for a guy. I never wanted to sit on a female teacher's lap at that age, but I've had lower grade elementary girls nowadays want to sit on my lap, or that have touched me inappropriately.