Who receive a paycheck from the Church?

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DEEPER storm
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Who receive a paycheck from the Church?

Post by DEEPER storm »

After watching General Conference or at least being present as my wife listened, i began to wonder how many of these speakers get a paycheck from the church-that is how many are on the payroll of the Church?

Well the guys in the red velvet chairs for sure have their calling and election and paycheck made sure- leaks reveal pay stubs!

But what about the others-for example are the President of the Sunday School and the General Relief Society President on the payroll?

We know mission president's operate off a church credit card without limits for the most part plus housing, cars, tuition for kids, cooks and gardeners.

What about Temple presidents?

How deep into the quorums of the 70's does the money flow?

Anyone got a handle on this?

Dubs
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Re: Who receive a paycheck from the Church?

Post by Dubs »

Several were successful in their careers and took major pay cuts when accepting their callings.

The money they receive now is much less than what a lot were making in their careers. I also know that multiple choose not to take a stipend.

As for who all gets paid...I dunno.

drtanner
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Re: Who receive a paycheck from the Church?

Post by drtanner »

DEEPER storm wrote: October 12th, 2017, 9:39 pm After watching General Conference or at least being present as my wife listened, i began to wonder how many of these speakers get a paycheck from the church-that is how many are on the payroll of the Church?

Well the guys in the red velvet chairs for sure have their calling and election and paycheck made sure- leaks reveal pay stubs!

But what about the others-for example are the President of the Sunday School and the General Relief Society President on the payroll?

We know mission president's operate off a church credit card without limits for the most part plus housing, cars, tuition for kids, cooks and gardeners.

What about Temple presidents?

How deep into the quorums of the 70's does the money flow?

Anyone got a handle on this?
How many good men from developing countries would not be able to serve in full time capacities without the help?

Sincerely asking, were you so distracted by this that you didn’t take away anything of value from the messages? If not, what did you enjoy?

gardener4life
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Re: Who receive a paycheck from the Church?

Post by gardener4life »

I don't think this is a faith promoting question. It will only stir up doubts and negativity. People will think why isn't it me? Or why do they deserve that.

I suggest you close the thread and focus on things that matter. By very nature why do people attack the church or people that do good? They have trouble with why someone else can be rewarded for obedience when they are still trying to earn it. And we have to be good followers before we can lead anyone, even if its in our own homes.

scottja
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Re: Who receive a paycheck from the Church?

Post by scottja »

My friend works for the Church, taking care of the buildings - heavy cleaning and general maintenance.
He gets a paycheck from the Church.
But somehow I don't this is an example of what you are asking about....

eddie
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Re: Who receive a paycheck from the Church?

Post by eddie »

Don't feed the troll....

Tree
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Re: Who receive a paycheck from the Church?

Post by Tree »

DEEPER storm wrote: October 12th, 2017, 9:39 pm After watching General Conference or at least being present as my wife listened, i began to wonder how many of these speakers get a paycheck from the church-that is how many are on the payroll of the Church?

Well the guys in the red velvet chairs for sure have their calling and election and paycheck made sure- leaks reveal pay stubs!

But what about the others-for example are the President of the Sunday School and the General Relief Society President on the payroll?

We know mission president's operate off a church credit card without limits for the most part plus housing, cars, tuition for kids, cooks and gardeners.

What about Temple presidents?

How deep into the quorums of the 70's does the money flow?

Anyone got a handle on this?
You have to ask where the money is taken? e.g. BYU does not use tithing money to operate. The money to operate BYU comes from many donations, patents, licensing etc.... . The Church has the business side to it and uses the profits accordingly.

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mirkwood
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Re: Who receive a paycheck from the Church?

Post by mirkwood »

I get a paycheck from the church. So what?

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Col. Flagg
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Re: Who receive a paycheck from the Church?

Post by Col. Flagg »

Tree wrote: October 13th, 2017, 7:45 am
DEEPER storm wrote: October 12th, 2017, 9:39 pm After watching General Conference or at least being present as my wife listened, i began to wonder how many of these speakers get a paycheck from the church-that is how many are on the payroll of the Church?

Well the guys in the red velvet chairs for sure have their calling and election and paycheck made sure- leaks reveal pay stubs!

But what about the others-for example are the President of the Sunday School and the General Relief Society President on the payroll?

We know mission president's operate off a church credit card without limits for the most part plus housing, cars, tuition for kids, cooks and gardeners.

What about Temple presidents?

How deep into the quorums of the 70's does the money flow?

Anyone got a handle on this?
You have to ask where the money is taken? e.g. BYU does not use tithing money to operate. The money to operate BYU comes from many donations, patents, licensing etc.... . The Church has the business side to it and uses the profits accordingly.
Try telling that to the Saints in Canada and Australia who see most of their donations go to BYU - it is HEAVILY subsidized by tithing funds to the tune of tens of millions per year.

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captainfearnot
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Re: Who receive a paycheck from the Church?

Post by captainfearnot »

Tree wrote: October 13th, 2017, 7:45 am You have to ask where the money is taken? e.g. BYU does not use tithing money to operate. The money to operate BYU comes from many donations, patents, licensing etc.... . The Church has the business side to it and uses the profits accordingly.
The church's financial books are closed, so people are used to being able to make whatever claims they want about where funds come from and how they are used. But the fact that BYU operations are subsidized by tithes has long been openly acknowledged. That's how they explain the discrepancy between tuition charged to LDS vs. non-LDS students:
BYU wrote:Tuition and general fees for all academic programs are established annually by Brigham Young University. BYU is a non-profit corporation affiliated with the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, and significant portions of university operating costs are paid with the tithes of Church members. In recognition of this support, Church members are assessed lower tuition fees than those who are not members. This practice is similar in principle to that of state universities charging higher tuition to nonresidents. Students are considered members of the Church if they have been baptized at any time during the semester or term.

drtanner
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Re: Who receive a paycheck from the Church?

Post by drtanner »

Col. Flagg wrote: October 13th, 2017, 1:32 pm
Tree wrote: October 13th, 2017, 7:45 am
DEEPER storm wrote: October 12th, 2017, 9:39 pm After watching General Conference or at least being present as my wife listened, i began to wonder how many of these speakers get a paycheck from the church-that is how many are on the payroll of the Church?

Well the guys in the red velvet chairs for sure have their calling and election and paycheck made sure- leaks reveal pay stubs!

But what about the others-for example are the President of the Sunday School and the General Relief Society President on the payroll?

We know mission president's operate off a church credit card without limits for the most part plus housing, cars, tuition for kids, cooks and gardeners.

What about Temple presidents?

How deep into the quorums of the 70's does the money flow?

Anyone got a handle on this?
You have to ask where the money is taken? e.g. BYU does not use tithing money to operate. The money to operate BYU comes from many donations, patents, licensing etc.... . The Church has the business side to it and uses the profits accordingly.
Try telling that to the Saints in Canada and Australia who see most of their donations go to BYU - it is HEAVILY subsidized by tithing funds to the tune of tens of millions per year.
The lord has always been involved in the decisions and importance of education for the saints including the use of his funds to that end. Read the D&C for many examples.

If you pay attention to church news you would have known that they announced a worldwide education program to reach the saints on any continent. In our lifetime we will see this type of blessing greatly utilized and perfected as the Lord moves his work forward.

What perhaps is the greatest miracle of education is the ripple effect it will have in developing countries as we do our part to get involved, all of us have a role to play and we are needed
Last edited by drtanner on October 15th, 2017, 10:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Thinker
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Re: Who receive a paycheck from the Church?

Post by Thinker »

Not sure who gets paid - maybe all speakers?

There are 3 main issues I’ve found myself focusing on in battles of principle.
Abortion murders, legally forcing children to be denied a mom or dad (ssm), & extreme poverty & corruption that causes or exacerbate it. Of those 3, the 1st 2 are pressing however, in terms of numbers suffering (almost 1,000,000,000 are “chronically hungry”) the last one is most significant.

In Deuteronomy 14:28-29 the law of tithing is given that requires those collecting TITHES to give 1/3 to the poor. This scripture is not taught in church- it’s even left out if you search paper scripture Topical guide or Bible dictionary. Oaks admitted that NO TITHES go to the poor & told us we need to pay extra for that. In doing that, they are breaking not only the law of tithing but also the greatest commandments “which hang all the law and the prophets.”

drtanner
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Re: Who receive a paycheck from the Church?

Post by drtanner »

Thinker wrote: October 13th, 2017, 2:36 pm Not sure who gets paid - maybe all speakers?

There are 3 main issues I’ve found myself focusing on in battles of principle.
Abortion murders, legally forcing children to be denied a mom or dad (ssm), & extreme poverty & corruption that causes or exasperates it. Of those 3, the 1st 2 are pressing however, in terms of numbers suffering (almost 1,000,000,000 are “chronically hungry”) the last one is most significant.

In Deuteronomy 14:28-29 the law of tithing is given that requires those collecting TITHES to give 1/3 to the poor. This scripture is not taught in church- it’s even left out if you search paper scripture Topical guide or Bible dictionary. Oaks admitted that NO TITHES go to the poor & told us we need to pay extra for that. In doing that, they are breaking not only the law of tithing but also the greatest commandments “which hang all the law and the prophets.”
Please provide the quote from oaks so we can help those on the forum understand what he was really saying.

Also by using tithing to focus on education and missionary work does this not add exponentially to the resources available to help the poor? I think many also forget that simply giving money to the poor is not a solution. Self reliance is the only answer long term, and that is the focus of the church worldwide.

Like I’ve said before, everyone loves to be a Monday morning quarterback with church finances and they all love to call the plays from the sidelines all claiming they are a better coach. Unfortunately they don’t ever seem to have the humility courage and fortitude to be a participant in the game. I say get in the game already..... (maybe you already are if so why not talk about that and actually inspire others)

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David13
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Re: Who receive a paycheck from the Church?

Post by David13 »

drtanner wrote: October 13th, 2017, 2:51 pm
Thinker wrote: October 13th, 2017, 2:36 pm Not sure who gets paid - maybe all speakers?

There are 3 main issues I’ve found myself focusing on in battles of principle.
Abortion murders, legally forcing children to be denied a mom or dad (ssm), & extreme poverty & corruption that causes or exasperates it. Of those 3, the 1st 2 are pressing however, in terms of numbers suffering (almost 1,000,000,000 are “chronically hungry”) the last one is most significant.

In Deuteronomy 14:28-29 the law of tithing is given that requires those collecting TITHES to give 1/3 to the poor. This scripture is not taught in church- it’s even left out if you search paper scripture Topical guide or Bible dictionary. Oaks admitted that NO TITHES go to the poor & told us we need to pay extra for that. In doing that, they are breaking not only the law of tithing but also the greatest commandments “which hang all the law and the prophets.”
Please provide the quote from oaks so we can help those on the forum understand what he was really saying.

Also by using tithing to focus on education and missionary work does this not add exponentially to the resources available to help the poor? I think many also forget that simply giving money to the poor is not a solution. Self reliance is the only answer long term, and that is the focus of the church worldwide.

Like I’ve said before, everyone loves to be a Monday morning quarterback with church finances and they all love to call the plays from the sidelines all claiming they are a better coach. Unfortunately they don’t ever seem to have the humility courage and fortitude to be a participant in the game. I say get in the game already..... (maybe you already are if so why not talk about that and actually inspire others)
Well said. Particularly the part about simply giving money to the "poor". That it's not the solution.
dc

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David13
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Re: Who receive a paycheck from the Church?

Post by David13 »

mirkwood wrote: October 13th, 2017, 11:16 am I get a paycheck from the church. So what?
So do I. And it's quite an extremely large one too.
But it isn't in dollars.
dc

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mirkwood
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Re: Who receive a paycheck from the Church?

Post by mirkwood »

David13 wrote: October 13th, 2017, 3:52 pm
mirkwood wrote: October 13th, 2017, 11:16 am I get a paycheck from the church. So what?
So do I. And it's quite an extremely large one too.
But it isn't in dollars.
dc
I get that one too, but I really do get paid by the church...as in receive a paycheck. To which I say again, so what?

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David13
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Re: Who receive a paycheck from the Church?

Post by David13 »

mirkwood wrote: October 13th, 2017, 4:30 pm
David13 wrote: October 13th, 2017, 3:52 pm
mirkwood wrote: October 13th, 2017, 11:16 am I get a paycheck from the church. So what?
So do I. And it's quite an extremely large one too.
But it isn't in dollars.
dc
I get that one too, but I really do get paid by the church...as in receive a paycheck. To which I say again, so what?
So what? So what you probably do some work for the church, that's what.

Doesn't everybody know, when they go to the Temple, and they see people out there, working, gardening, tending the flowers, shrubs and trees, and lawn at the Temple, that they get paid?

So what? They work, they get paid, that's what.
dc

Like the Mexicans say, "algo para mis frijoles". I probably said that more than the Mexicans.

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skmo
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Re: Who receive a paycheck from the Church?

Post by skmo »

mirkwood wrote: October 13th, 2017, 4:30 pm
David13 wrote: October 13th, 2017, 3:52 pm
mirkwood wrote: October 13th, 2017, 11:16 am I get a paycheck from the church. So what?
So do I. And it's quite an extremely large one too.
But it isn't in dollars.
dc
I get that one too, but I really do get paid by the church...as in receive a paycheck. To which I say again, so what?
Some questions are not asked to receive an answer but to stimulate thoughts. I believe this question is one of those.

It's my belief that this is indeed a question trying to do that in the same way as someone asking "Who is in charge of educating my children at school since the schools are all run by liberty-hating, commie-loving, socialist-pushing, drug-dealing, homosexual-demanding, atheist-brainwashing, kidnapping sex slave traders?" although it's worded a little more subtly.

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David13
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Re: Who receive a paycheck from the Church?

Post by David13 »

skmo wrote: October 13th, 2017, 5:06 pm
mirkwood wrote: October 13th, 2017, 4:30 pm
David13 wrote: October 13th, 2017, 3:52 pm
mirkwood wrote: October 13th, 2017, 11:16 am I get a paycheck from the church. So what?
So do I. And it's quite an extremely large one too.
But it isn't in dollars.
dc
I get that one too, but I really do get paid by the church...as in receive a paycheck. To which I say again, so what?
Some questions are not asked to receive an answer but to stimulate thoughts. I believe this question is one of those.

It's my belief that this is indeed a question trying to do that in the same way as someone asking "Who is in charge of educating my children at school since the schools are all run by liberty-hating, commie-loving, socialist-pushing, drug-dealing, homosexual-demanding, atheist-brainwashing, kidnapping sex slave traders?" although it's worded a little more subtly.


No, no, no. I think it was just a little bit of pride. Almost sort of bragging, you know, not an inordinate, nor sinful amount, just a little pride, rightfully so. I known I'd be very proud to work for the church, even if it was just gardening or laundry.
dc

You know, there could also have bit of "ask me what I do for the church" mixed in there, too. A little begging the question, I think they call that.

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BeNotDeceived
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Re: Who receive a paycheck from the Church?

Post by BeNotDeceived »

My first paycheck was from the COB.

Tree
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Re: Who receive a paycheck from the Church?

Post by Tree »

Col. Flagg wrote: October 13th, 2017, 1:32 pm
Tree wrote: October 13th, 2017, 7:45 am
DEEPER storm wrote: October 12th, 2017, 9:39 pm After watching General Conference or at least being present as my wife listened, i began to wonder how many of these speakers get a paycheck from the church-that is how many are on the payroll of the Church?

Well the guys in the red velvet chairs for sure have their calling and election and paycheck made sure- leaks reveal pay stubs!

But what about the others-for example are the President of the Sunday School and the General Relief Society President on the payroll?

We know mission president's operate off a church credit card without limits for the most part plus housing, cars, tuition for kids, cooks and gardeners.

What about Temple presidents?

How deep into the quorums of the 70's does the money flow?

Anyone got a handle on this?
You have to ask where the money is taken? e.g. BYU does not use tithing money to operate. The money to operate BYU comes from many donations, patents, licensing etc.... . The Church has the business side to it and uses the profits accordingly.
Try telling that to the Saints in Canada and Australia who see most of their donations go to BYU - it is HEAVILY subsidized by tithing funds to the tune of tens of millions per year.
You are 110% right. Unfortunately from your prospective the Church is misusing your personal tithing from your perspective. I guess the only thing too do at this point is to have your records removed.

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Thinker
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Re: Who receive a paycheck from the Church?

Post by Thinker »

drtanner wrote: October 13th, 2017, 2:51 pm
Thinker wrote: October 13th, 2017, 2:36 pm Not sure who gets paid - maybe all speakers?

There are 3 main issues I’ve found myself focusing on in battles of principle.
Abortion murders, legally forcing children to be denied a mom or dad (ssm), & extreme poverty & corruption that causes or exasperates it. Of those 3, the 1st 2 are pressing however, in terms of numbers suffering (almost 1,000,000,000 are “chronically hungry”) the last one is most significant.

In Deuteronomy 14:28-29 the law of tithing is given that requires those collecting TITHES to give 1/3 to the poor. This scripture is not taught in church- it’s even left out if you search paper scripture Topical guide or Bible dictionary. Oaks admitted that NO TITHES go to the poor & told us we need to pay extra for that. In doing that, they are breaking not only the law of tithing but also the greatest commandments “which hang all the law and the prophets.”
Please provide the quote from oaks so we can help those on the forum understand what he was really saying.

Also by using tithing to focus on education and missionary work does this not add exponentially to the resources available to help the poor? I think many also forget that simply giving money to the poor is not a solution. Self reliance is the only answer long term, and that is the focus of the church worldwide.

Like I’ve said before, everyone loves to be a Monday morning quarterback with church finances and they all love to call the plays from the sidelines all claiming they are a better coach. Unfortunately they don’t ever seem to have the humility courage and fortitude to be a participant in the game. I say get in the game already..... (maybe you already are if so why not talk about that and actually inspire others)
Sure. Although money gathered in the name of Christ, is kept dark and secret (a problem in itself), Oaks explained that tithing is in no part charity and that if we want to help the poor, we need to pay extra. This contradicts how gatherers of TITHES are supposed to handle the tithes as explained in Deut. 14:28-29 by giving at LEAST 1/3 of tithes to the poor (Christ suggested giving much more). Here's the link: https://www.lds.org/general-conference/ ... g?lang=eng

You could try to justify disobeying this law of tithing, and try to reason that the money that is supposed to go to the poor is better spent in others ways. You could also try to justify denying tithes intended for the poor - by straw-man logical fallacy - which is assuming all the poverty in the world is represented by the privileged poor in American who take advantage of the welfare system. But if you'd gone to places like I've been - where people lack clean water and other basics, you'd realize the world is much bigger than our relatively elite country. Moreover, I believe the law of tithing is clear, and Jesus was very clear in repeatedly explaining the greatest commandment - to love and help those in need, and to love God (and as we love others we love God)... "on these 2 commandments hang all the law and the prophets."

I can't imagine Jesus building a corporate empire with greedy materialistic shopping malls rather than investing in figuring out how best to help those in need - especially when the need is so often fatal! It is estimated that at least 25,000 DIE every day due to hunger-related causes!
I love this church - and I appreciate the good that church leaders do - but that doesn't change the financial facts.

drtanner
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Re: Who receive a paycheck from the Church?

Post by drtanner »

Is Elder Oaks really saying tithing is in no part charity and that if we want to help the poor we need to pay extra? You be the judge, here is his statement:
We pay tithing, as the Savior taught, by bringing the tithes “into the storehouse” (Mal. 3:10; 3 Ne. 24:10). We do this by paying our tithing to our bishop or branch president. We do not pay tithing by contributing to our favorite charities. The contributions we should make to charities come from our own funds, not from the tithes we are commanded to pay to the storehouse of the Lord.
Also in the talk given
The Lord has directed by revelation that the expenditure of his tithes will be directed by his servants, the First Presidency, the Quorum of the Twelve, and the Presiding Bishopric (see D&C 120). Those funds are spent to build and maintain temples and houses of worship, to conduct our worldwide missionary work, to translate and publish scriptures, to provide resources to redeem the dead, to fund religious education, and to support other Church purposes selected by the designated servants of the Lord.

In earlier times, tithing was paid in kind—a tenth of the herdsman’s increase, a tenth of the farmer’s produce. I am sorry that our modern cash economy deprives parents of the wonderful teaching opportunities presented by the payment of tithing in kind.
Perhaps our modern cash economy is slightly different than those found in the times of the Old Testament, thankfully we have modern prophets to receive revelation on how these funds are to be handled in our day.
you say, "I can't imagine Jesus building a corporate empire with greedy materialistic shopping malls rather than investing in figuring out how best to help those in need - especially when the need is so often fatal"
I read section 111 and see the Lords response to this money grab in the early church and feel just fine about the decision to build a mall and the standing of the brethren in the eyes of the Lord. The work moves on.

drtanner
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Re: Who receive a paycheck from the Church?

Post by drtanner »

Thinker wrote: October 17th, 2017, 5:57 pm
drtanner wrote: October 13th, 2017, 2:51 pm
Thinker wrote: October 13th, 2017, 2:36 pm Not sure who gets paid - maybe all speakers?

There are 3 main issues I’ve found myself focusing on in battles of principle.
Abortion murders, legally forcing children to be denied a mom or dad (ssm), & extreme poverty & corruption that causes or exasperates it. Of those 3, the 1st 2 are pressing however, in terms of numbers suffering (almost 1,000,000,000 are “chronically hungry”) the last one is most significant.

In Deuteronomy 14:28-29 the law of tithing is given that requires those collecting TITHES to give 1/3 to the poor. This scripture is not taught in church- it’s even left out if you search paper scripture Topical guide or Bible dictionary. Oaks admitted that NO TITHES go to the poor & told us we need to pay extra for that. In doing that, they are breaking not only the law of tithing but also the greatest commandments “which hang all the law and the prophets.”
Please provide the quote from oaks so we can help those on the forum understand what he was really saying.

Also by using tithing to focus on education and missionary work does this not add exponentially to the resources available to help the poor? I think many also forget that simply giving money to the poor is not a solution. Self reliance is the only answer long term, and that is the focus of the church worldwide.

Like I’ve said before, everyone loves to be a Monday morning quarterback with church finances and they all love to call the plays from the sidelines all claiming they are a better coach. Unfortunately they don’t ever seem to have the humility courage and fortitude to be a participant in the game. I say get in the game already..... (maybe you already are if so why not talk about that and actually inspire others)
Sure. Although money gathered in the name of Christ, is kept dark and secret (a problem in itself), Oaks explained that tithing is in no part charity and that if we want to help the poor, we need to pay extra. This contradicts how gatherers of TITHES are supposed to handle the tithes as explained in Deut. 14:28-29 by giving at LEAST 1/3 of tithes to the poor (Christ suggested giving much more). Here's the link: https://www.lds.org/general-conference/ ... g?lang=eng

You could try to justify disobeying this law of tithing, and try to reason that the money that is supposed to go to the poor is better spent in others ways. You could also try to justify denying tithes intended for the poor - by straw-man logical fallacy - which is assuming all the poverty in the world is represented by the privileged poor in American who take advantage of the welfare system. But if you'd gone to places like I've been - where people lack clean water and other basics, you'd realize the world is much bigger than our relatively elite country. Moreover, I believe the law of tithing is clear, and Jesus was very clear in repeatedly explaining the greatest commandment - to love and help those in need, and to love God (and as we love others we love God)... "on these 2 commandments hang all the law and the prophets."

I can't imagine Jesus building a corporate empire with greedy materialistic shopping malls rather than investing in figuring out how best to help those in need - especially when the need is so often fatal! It is estimated that at least 25,000 DIE every day due to hunger-related causes!
I love this church - and I appreciate the good that church leaders do - but that doesn't change the financial facts.
Other questions I’d love hear your thoughts on if you take this literally. How would you personally choose to distribute the Tithing funds to the poor in this system given our modern day economy? How do you determine who is poor? What countries get the donations first? How do you determine how much? Are you planning on writing them a check and calling it good? Are you just providing basic nececities? How do you ensure you don’t create a dependence / culture of reliance and stifle the opportunity to flourish. Is it a one time donation? What are the rules and expectations? Are there any?

Anyway please help me understand how you think this should be handled.

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Mindfields
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Re: Who receive a paycheck from the Church?

Post by Mindfields »

I imagine that the Jews living at the time of Jesus had a lot of good reasons/EXCUSES why the Pharisees did what they did.

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