LDS LIVING--Lesbian says, "heavenly father made me to be gay."

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Elizabeth
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Re: LDS LIVING-

Post by Elizabeth »

Please explain your meaning:
TrueIntent wrote: October 8th, 2017, 6:16 pm that hopefully you have become one with.

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TrueIntent
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Re: LDS LIVING--Lesbian says, "heavenly father made me to be gay."

Post by TrueIntent »

Crackers wrote: October 8th, 2017, 7:09 pm I am MORE than a little skeptical of the assertion that the church uses this magazine to promote social change and perceptions. I am more inclined to agree with it being click bait.

This is what I think we will see more and more from church leaders: Clarification that homosexual acts are sinful, and a greater call for compassion and charity for those who suffer from that persuasion, whether it be inborn or learned behavior.
So, you believe that LDSliving content is not used to promote social issues within the church or to correct members cultural beliefs? My question to you would be, then what is LDSliving for? And why would the church own a publication that is used to bait members?

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TrueIntent
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Re: LDS LIVING-

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Elizabeth wrote: October 8th, 2017, 7:21 pm Please explain your meaning:
TrueIntent wrote: October 8th, 2017, 6:16 pm that hopefully you have become one with.
become "one", cleave to and none else....a union, sealing...I believe this is more than just a performance of an ordinance...it is a spiritual becoming, as are all the ordinances. Curious, What did you think i meant?

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TrueIntent
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Re: LDS LIVING--Lesbian says, "heavenly father made me to be gay."

Post by TrueIntent »

Lizzy60 wrote: October 8th, 2017, 4:29 pm TrueIntent -- the statement that you highlighted, where she says that being a lesbian is a privilege and a blessing, is where she has turned the corner from praying for healing and change and release from her same-sex attraction, into deciding that there is nothing wrong with her attraction, and even calling it a privilege and a blessing, and that it's nothing to be ashamed of.

That is why it's a huge problem, to those of us who know it's a grievous sin, to have this printed in a magazine read by many LDS members.
Let me tell you what is a privilege....to struggle with something so much that it causes you to turn to God directly for direction....people say trials, or "wrestles" within spirit do this to them.

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Elizabeth
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Re: LDS LIVING-

Post by Elizabeth »

Had I known your meaning I would not have asked.
I married in the Anglican Church till death do us part. As I am a widow, I am now single.
TrueIntent wrote: October 8th, 2017, 8:10 pm
Elizabeth wrote: October 8th, 2017, 7:21 pm Please explain your meaning:
TrueIntent wrote: October 8th, 2017, 6:16 pm that hopefully you have become one with.
become "one", cleave to and none else....a union, sealing...I believe this is more than just a performance of an ordinance...it is a spiritual becoming, as are all the ordinances. Curious, What did you think i meant?

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passionflower
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Re: LDS LIVING--Lesbian says, "heavenly father made me to be gay."

Post by passionflower »

TrueIntent wrote: October 8th, 2017, 1:40 pm The church is changing it's stance on Homosexuals in the church very quickly (and I support this). I have noticed, that when the church is attempting to change cultural messages, they will push the new agenda on LDSliving (a publication owned by the church). We used to teach that members "choose" to be gay...that no one is born gay. On the mormonsandgays.org site, one of the apostles acknowledges that "we don't know".....this article posted, also acknowledges the church is, softening it's stance......I'm just going to quote from the article, the link attached, "see more".....I am posting this to bring exposure to more members...we need to be less judgmental...especially at church. Church should be a place where we are not condemning others, but loving them (can you imagine how difficult it would be to exist in an LDS community, as this young woman is doing). Here is from the article...

I came here to BYU and things got a little harder to explain to myself. I was old enough to date now, so why did I still have no interest in boys at all? I then had my first experience in which I recognized that it wasn't just admiration; I was having feelings for a girl. I became quite angry with myself. I still believed that I wasn't born gay and I was certain these feelings were my fault. I thought it was my responsibility to stop having those thoughts and I wouldn't qualify for Heavenly Father's help until I did. So, I did everything I knew how to do: I prayed more, I read my scriptures more, I listened to conference talks every morning, I tried to be the picture of righteousness. But I wasn't perfect and every time I could sense the feelings creeping back in I blamed it on the day I didn't write in my gratitude journal or the night I prayed in my bed instead of kneeling down. When I finally allowed myself - at age 22 - to consider that maybe I had no choice in the matter, it felt like a whole new world opened. Everything started to make sense. For the first time in my life, I was beginning to understand myself. I was the same person, there was just more of me than I realized. God didn't hate me, I wasn't a monster, I was just gay.
I regret all the shame I used to feel. I'm proud of who I am. Knowing that I am a lesbian is a privilege and a blessing. I know it might not make sense to some people but I firmly believe that my Heavenly Father made me to be gay and He wants me to know who I am. When I think about it that way, I can't be ashamed."


The article is really good....it acknowledges that people who live within the BYU/church community, speak freely about their judgements, and have no idea that there are members who are gay, dwelling among them who are suffering internally because of all the judgements casts.

Here is the link...http://www.ldsliving.com/Lesbian-Mormon ... ce/s/86575

I also believe that the church is currently teaching gay members to live a celibate lifestyle...that they will have to backtrack on that. This is an extreme teaching, and we shouldn't expect others to live a lifestyle that leadership and priesthood holders would struggle to live themselves (this is my personal opinion).
I am trying to figure out why we can't use this same argument you espouse up there about heterosexual men in general.
Men are not born to be one women guys. They are born with desires for many sexual partners. Men can have a new sexual partner every other day with out it being a problem. Even after marraige, they will stare at other attractive women and be tempted by porn.

I don't know how anyone can deny that this adventurous noncommittal sexual nature is the true nature of a man, and he doesn't learn it, he was born this way. True Intent, you are living in a dream world if you even try to argue my point here? I remember some lines in the play "The King and I" wherein the King of Siam tells Anna that it is natural for him to go from woman to woman in his harem. He saw this kind of sexual behaviour as his identity. He likened this to being as normal and natural as a bee taking nectar from one flower after another. And for a man, it is.

So using this girls own argument, as well as your own, I should be guilt tripping everyone for not accepting a man like he is and allowing him to fulfill his own nature and be a polygamist. He should be able to "come out" without shame and stop the cruel wrestle he must make to master his nature. But you oppose that. If this is their nature, why stop them? Aren't we frustrating them and denying them the privilege to be themselves? After all, God made them that way. He really actually did. Why make marraige only between one man and one women, in order to make a guy marry one woman and stay with her forever, anymore than force a lesbian to marry a man and stay with him forever? Especially when he was not born with that as his natural sexual tendency?

The answer to this is so obvious it should go without saying. And what's good for the goose is good for the gander.

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TrueIntent
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Re: LDS LIVING--Lesbian says, "heavenly father made me to be gay."

Post by TrueIntent »

passionflower wrote: October 8th, 2017, 8:32 pm
TrueIntent wrote: October 8th, 2017, 1:40 pm The church is changing it's stance on Homosexuals in the church very quickly (and I support this). I have noticed, that when the church is attempting to change cultural messages, they will push the new agenda on LDSliving (a publication owned by the church). We used to teach that members "choose" to be gay...that no one is born gay. On the mormonsandgays.org site, one of the apostles acknowledges that "we don't know".....this article posted, also acknowledges the church is, softening it's stance......I'm just going to quote from the article, the link attached, "see more".....I am posting this to bring exposure to more members...we need to be less judgmental...especially at church. Church should be a place where we are not condemning others, but loving them (can you imagine how difficult it would be to exist in an LDS community, as this young woman is doing). Here is from the article...

I came here to BYU and things got a little harder to explain to myself. I was old enough to date now, so why did I still have no interest in boys at all? I then had my first experience in which I recognized that it wasn't just admiration; I was having feelings for a girl. I became quite angry with myself. I still believed that I wasn't born gay and I was certain these feelings were my fault. I thought it was my responsibility to stop having those thoughts and I wouldn't qualify for Heavenly Father's help until I did. So, I did everything I knew how to do: I prayed more, I read my scriptures more, I listened to conference talks every morning, I tried to be the picture of righteousness. But I wasn't perfect and every time I could sense the feelings creeping back in I blamed it on the day I didn't write in my gratitude journal or the night I prayed in my bed instead of kneeling down. When I finally allowed myself - at age 22 - to consider that maybe I had no choice in the matter, it felt like a whole new world opened. Everything started to make sense. For the first time in my life, I was beginning to understand myself. I was the same person, there was just more of me than I realized. God didn't hate me, I wasn't a monster, I was just gay.
I regret all the shame I used to feel. I'm proud of who I am. Knowing that I am a lesbian is a privilege and a blessing. I know it might not make sense to some people but I firmly believe that my Heavenly Father made me to be gay and He wants me to know who I am. When I think about it that way, I can't be ashamed."


The article is really good....it acknowledges that people who live within the BYU/church community, speak freely about their judgements, and have no idea that there are members who are gay, dwelling among them who are suffering internally because of all the judgements casts.

Here is the link...http://www.ldsliving.com/Lesbian-Mormon ... ce/s/86575

I also believe that the church is currently teaching gay members to live a celibate lifestyle...that they will have to backtrack on that. This is an extreme teaching, and we shouldn't expect others to live a lifestyle that leadership and priesthood holders would struggle to live themselves (this is my personal opinion).
I am trying to figure out why we can't use this same argument you espouse up there about heterosexual men in general.
Men are not born to be one women guys. They are born with desires for many sexual partners. Men can have a new sexual partner every other day with out it being a problem. Even after marraige, they will stare at other attractive women and be tempted by porn.

I don't know how anyone can deny that this adventurous noncommittal sexual nature is the true nature of a man, and he doesn't learn it, he was born this way. True Intent, you are living in a dream world if you even try to argue my point here? I remember some lines in the play "The King and I" wherein the King of Siam tells Anna that it is natural for him to go from woman to woman in his harem. He saw this kind of sexual behaviour as his identity. He likened this to being as normal and natural as a bee taking nectar from one flower after another. And for a man, it is.

So using this girls own argument, as well as your own, I should be guilt tripping everyone for not accepting a man like he is and allowing him to fulfill his own nature and be a polygamist. He should be able to "come out" without shame and stop the cruel wrestle he must make to master his nature. But you oppose that. If this is their nature, why stop them? Aren't we frustrating them and denying them the privilege to be themselves? After all, God made them that way. He really actually did. Why make marraige only between one man and one women, in order to make a guy marry one woman and stay with her forever, anymore than force a lesbian to marry a man and stay with him forever? Especially when he was not born with that as his natural sexual tendency?

The answer to this is so obvious it should go without saying. And what's good for the goose is good for the gander.
Wow....homosexuality does not equal promiscuity. I have know gay persons who have only had one partner their entire lives. You are inscinuating that God condones promiscuity or whoredoms, and that homosexuality equals promiscuous behavior. God does not make someone promiscuous....they start at the beginning and take things further down that path. Gay persons can have nonsexual thoughts, and only be attracted to their same sex...in the same way you are attracted to the opposite. I'm not saying we have to accept anything........but the way people are reacting, my mere suggestion has stuck a nerve, and people keep revealing their own ignorance.....has anyone ever had a real conversation with a gay person, even a gay religious person.

I'm saying reserve judgment if you haven't studied in depth some of the topics I posted above in some of my other posts. Btw, we could repeat that same line in the king and I to the actions of early church leaders on polygamy. I could make many disturbing comparisons to promiscuity and polygamy....I'm just trying to make a point with the article. Christ taught lust is adultery...when I talk about being more accepting of gays...I'm referring to spirit....there are things we may not understand. I believe in monogamy, and union of souls. Your comment is ignorant.

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oneClimbs
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Re: LDS LIVING--Lesbian says, "heavenly father made me to be gay."

Post by oneClimbs »

When you label yourself by your weakness then you make it much more difficult for yourself. No doubt that living with those inclinations is a big challenge. But so are many other things. Trying to pattern your life after God requires a difficult path through mists of darkness and much sacrifice.

Although I have studied the topic, I also understand the gospel and the purpose of marriage and male and female becoming one. I also understand that we have choice, and that we must choose the right even when it is hard or seems impossible to do so. Sacrifice brings forth the blessings of heaven. God gives us weaknesses so that we will have something to offer at the altar.

When I got married I gave up the opportunity to engage sexually with other women. I live every day knowing that my wife is the only one I have ever or will ever know intimately. I’m willing to do that. Doesn’t matter how attractive other women are, I cleave to my wife because this is God’s design for men and woman. In Eden he separated woman from man, he took one flesh and divided it into two incomplete parts. For this cause, the marriage covenant brings about one flesh and restores two into one.

It’s never been anything else. The entirety of the doctrine is based on this dynamic. There is 0 doctrinal basis for it, it doesn’t exist. People need true doctrine, not excuses for remaining in a state that robs them of the blessings of God’s covenants.

Again, I’m not saying this is easy, but the entire gospel is not easy. It is HARD to walk the path and this is by design. We are meant to wrestle, climb, and seek, this is part of everyone’s journey and we all have a different thing or thing to struggle with. We all have the natural man to overcome.

People who struggle with anything deserve our love and fellowship, but we will not encourage people in a path that leads them away from God’s highest blessings. That is not love.

Lizzy60
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Re: LDS LIVING--Lesbian says, "heavenly father made me to be gay."

Post by Lizzy60 »

Homosexuality is comparable to promiscuity in that they are both sexual sins, and both are contrary to what God commands for his sons and daughters. They are both whoredoms.

Sinning with the same-sex partner for life.......do many wrongs make it right??? What a weird concept.

Fiannan
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Re: LDS LIVING--Lesbian says, "heavenly father made me to be gay."

Post by Fiannan »

As in the days of Noah...

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passionflower
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Re: LDS LIVING--Lesbian says, "heavenly father made me to be gay."

Post by passionflower »

TrueIntent wrote: October 8th, 2017, 8:47 pm
passionflower wrote: October 8th, 2017, 8:32 pm
TrueIntent wrote: October 8th, 2017, 1:40 pm The church is changing it's stance on Homosexuals in the church very quickly (and I support this). I have noticed, that when the church is attempting to change cultural messages, they will push the new agenda on LDSliving (a publication owned by the church). We used to teach that members "choose" to be gay...that no one is born gay. On the mormonsandgays.org site, one of the apostles acknowledges that "we don't know".....this article posted, also acknowledges the church is, softening it's stance......I'm just going to quote from the article, the link attached, "see more".....I am posting this to bring exposure to more members...we need to be less judgmental...especially at church. Church should be a place where we are not condemning others, but loving them (can you imagine how difficult it would be to exist in an LDS community, as this young woman is doing). Here is from the article...

I came here to BYU and things got a little harder to explain to myself. I was old enough to date now, so why did I still have no interest in boys at all? I then had my first experience in which I recognized that it wasn't just admiration; I was having feelings for a girl. I became quite angry with myself. I still believed that I wasn't born gay and I was certain these feelings were my fault. I thought it was my responsibility to stop having those thoughts and I wouldn't qualify for Heavenly Father's help until I did. So, I did everything I knew how to do: I prayed more, I read my scriptures more, I listened to conference talks every morning, I tried to be the picture of righteousness. But I wasn't perfect and every time I could sense the feelings creeping back in I blamed it on the day I didn't write in my gratitude journal or the night I prayed in my bed instead of kneeling down. When I finally allowed myself - at age 22 - to consider that maybe I had no choice in the matter, it felt like a whole new world opened. Everything started to make sense. For the first time in my life, I was beginning to understand myself. I was the same person, there was just more of me than I realized. God didn't hate me, I wasn't a monster, I was just gay.
I regret all the shame I used to feel. I'm proud of who I am. Knowing that I am a lesbian is a privilege and a blessing. I know it might not make sense to some people but I firmly believe that my Heavenly Father made me to be gay and He wants me to know who I am. When I think about it that way, I can't be ashamed."


The article is really good....it acknowledges that people who live within the BYU/church community, speak freely about their judgements, and have no idea that there are members who are gay, dwelling among them who are suffering internally because of all the judgements casts.

Here is the link...http://www.ldsliving.com/Lesbian-Mormon ... ce/s/86575

I also believe that the church is currently teaching gay members to live a celibate lifestyle...that they will have to backtrack on that. This is an extreme teaching, and we shouldn't expect others to live a lifestyle that leadership and priesthood holders would struggle to live themselves (this is my personal opinion).
I am trying to figure out why we can't use this same argument you espouse up there about heterosexual men in general.
Men are not born to be one women guys. They are born with desires for many sexual partners. Men can have a new sexual partner every other day with out it being a problem. Even after marraige, they will stare at other attractive women and be tempted by porn.

I don't know how anyone can deny that this adventurous noncommittal sexual nature is the true nature of a man, and he doesn't learn it, he was born this way. True Intent, you are living in a dream world if you even try to argue my point here? I remember some lines in the play "The King and I" wherein the King of Siam tells Anna that it is natural for him to go from woman to woman in his harem. He saw this kind of sexual behaviour as his identity. He likened this to being as normal and natural as a bee taking nectar from one flower after another. And for a man, it is.

So using this girls own argument, as well as your own, I should be guilt tripping everyone for not accepting a man like he is and allowing him to fulfill his own nature and be a polygamist. He should be able to "come out" without shame and stop the cruel wrestle he must make to master his nature. But you oppose that. If this is their nature, why stop them? Aren't we frustrating them and denying them the privilege to be themselves? After all, God made them that way. He really actually did. Why make marraige only between one man and one women, in order to make a guy marry one woman and stay with her forever, anymore than force a lesbian to marry a man and stay with him forever? Especially when he was not born with that as his natural sexual tendency?

The answer to this is so obvious it should go without saying. And what's good for the goose is good for the gander.
Wow....homosexuality does not equal promiscuity. I have know gay persons who have only had one partner their entire lives. You are inscinuating that God condones promiscuity or whoredoms, and that homosexuality equals promiscuous behavior. God does not make someone promiscuous....they start at the beginning and take things further down that path. Gay persons can have nonsexual thoughts, and only be attracted to their same sex...in the same way you are attracted to the opposite. I'm not saying we have to accept anything........but the way people are reacting, my mere suggestion has stuck a nerve, and people keep revealing their own ignorance.....has anyone ever had a real conversation with a gay person, even a gay religious person.

I'm saying reserve judgment if you haven't studied in depth some of the topics I posted above in some of my other posts. Btw, we could repeat that same line in the king and I to the actions of early church leaders on polygamy. I could make many disturbing comparisons to promiscuity and polygamy....I'm just trying to make a point with the article. Christ taught lust is adultery...when I talk about being more accepting of gays...I'm referring to spirit....there are things we may not understand. I believe in monogamy, and union of souls. Your comment is ignorant.
I was hardly making a "comment", and you are not answering my query, just emotionally reacting to it. In fact, you are nothing but highly emotional about the whole subject of homosexuality.

I dispute there is anything spiritual you are trying to get us to accept. I would say that, IMO, you are trying very very hard to get us to emotionally validate the girl in the article AS a homosexual. Every word in your OP was geared towards that goal. Every. single. word.

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inho
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Re: LDS LIVING--Lesbian says, "heavenly father made me to be gay."

Post by inho »

Elizabeth wrote: October 8th, 2017, 3:38 pm :( It is most disappointing that LDS Living would publish this article.

Homosexuality is a joke, it is so seriously bizarre and so past ridiculous that is incredulous that any sane person could entertain this insanity. To think that anyone who lives this lifestyle could still expect exaltation in eternities, as has been suggested here on another thread, is troubleing to say the least.
From the church's official mormonandgay.org website:
If you decide to share your experiences of feeling same-sex attraction or to openly identify as gay, you should be supported and treated with kindness and respect, both at home and in church. We all need to be patient with each other as we figure things out.

As Church members, we all have a responsibility to create a supportive and loving environment for all our brothers and sisters. Such a support network makes it much easier to live the gospel and to seek the Spirit while navigating any aspect of mortality.

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inho
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Re: LDS LIVING--Lesbian says, "heavenly father made me to be gay."

Post by inho »

Lizzy60 wrote: October 8th, 2017, 5:14 pm I also have a problem with the church teaching that having the thoughts is not sinful.
As a man thinketh, so is he. He who lusts after a woman has committed adultery in his heart.
Yes, you have a problem with the church teaching. This is from the official mormonandgay.org website:
Attraction is not identity. People can make their own choices about how to identify. There are active, temple recommend–holding Church members who comply with the law of chastity and identify themselves as gay, lesbian, or bisexual. There are active Church members who experience same-sex attraction and never choose to identify themselves using a label. Our primary identity will always be as a child of God.
The feelings, i.e. the attraction, is not a sin. The actions would be.
5tev3 wrote: October 8th, 2017, 9:21 pm When you label yourself by your weakness then you make it much more difficult for yourself.
5tev3,
according to the above quote, the church doesn't seem to mind, if people label themselves gay.

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Elizabeth
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Re: LDS LIVING--Lesbian says, "heavenly father made me to be gay."

Post by Elizabeth »

https://www.lds.org/liahona/1995/11/ser ... g=eng&_r=1

https://www.lds.org/ensign/1995/09/serv ... 9?lang=eng

http://www.mormonnewsroom.org/article/s ... position-8



"The Church’s stand on homosexual relations provides another arena where we offend the devil. I expect that the statement of the First Presidency and the Twelve against homosexual marriages will continue to be assaulted. Satan is only interested in our misery, which he promotes by trying to persuade men and women to act contrary to God’s plan. One way he does this is by encouraging the inappropriate use of sacred creative powers. A bona fide marriage is one between a man and a woman solemnized by the proper legal or ecclesiastical authority. Only sexual relations between husband and wife within the bonds of marriage are acceptable before the Lord.

There is some widely accepted theory extant that homosexuality is inherited. How can this be? No scientific evidence demonstrates absolutely that this is so. Besides, if it were so, it would frustrate the whole plan of mortal happiness. Our designation as men or women began before this world was. In contrast to the socially accepted doctrine that homosexuality is inborn, a number of respectable authorities contend that homosexuality is not acquired by birth. The false belief of inborn homosexual orientation denies to repentant souls the opportunity to change and will ultimately lead to discouragement, disappointment, and despair.

Alternatives to the legal and loving marriage between a man and a woman are helping to unravel the fabric of human society. I am sure this is pleasing to the devil. The fabric I refer to is the family. These so-called alternative life-styles must not be accepted as right, because they frustrate God’s commandment for a life-giving union of male and female within a legal marriage as stated in Genesis. If practiced by all adults, these life-styles would mean the end of the human family."

It is Lucifers greatest triumph... homosexual lifestyle and abortion, both choices which result in keeping waiting spirits from obtaining their mortal bodies.

Gage
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Re: LDS LIVING--Lesbian says, "heavenly father made me to be gay."

Post by Gage »

Just because someone says they did all these things in perfect faith and trust in the Lord does not mean they did all these things with perfect faith and trust in the Lord. Just because someone says they are born gay does not mean they are born gay.

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TrueIntent
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Re: LDS LIVING--Lesbian says, "heavenly father made me to be gay."

Post by TrueIntent »

passionflower wrote: October 8th, 2017, 10:47 pm
TrueIntent wrote: October 8th, 2017, 8:47 pm
passionflower wrote: October 8th, 2017, 8:32 pm
TrueIntent wrote: October 8th, 2017, 1:40 pm The church is changing it's stance on Homosexuals in the church very quickly (and I support this). I have noticed, that when the church is attempting to change cultural messages, they will push the new agenda on LDSliving (a publication owned by the church). We used to teach that members "choose" to be gay...that no one is born gay. On the mormonsandgays.org site, one of the apostles acknowledges that "we don't know".....this article posted, also acknowledges the church is, softening it's stance......I'm just going to quote from the article, the link attached, "see more".....I am posting this to bring exposure to more members...we need to be less judgmental...especially at church. Church should be a place where we are not condemning others, but loving them (can you imagine how difficult it would be to exist in an LDS community, as this young woman is doing). Here is from the article...

I came here to BYU and things got a little harder to explain to myself. I was old enough to date now, so why did I still have no interest in boys at all? I then had my first experience in which I recognized that it wasn't just admiration; I was having feelings for a girl. I became quite angry with myself. I still believed that I wasn't born gay and I was certain these feelings were my fault. I thought it was my responsibility to stop having those thoughts and I wouldn't qualify for Heavenly Father's help until I did. So, I did everything I knew how to do: I prayed more, I read my scriptures more, I listened to conference talks every morning, I tried to be the picture of righteousness. But I wasn't perfect and every time I could sense the feelings creeping back in I blamed it on the day I didn't write in my gratitude journal or the night I prayed in my bed instead of kneeling down. When I finally allowed myself - at age 22 - to consider that maybe I had no choice in the matter, it felt like a whole new world opened. Everything started to make sense. For the first time in my life, I was beginning to understand myself. I was the same person, there was just more of me than I realized. God didn't hate me, I wasn't a monster, I was just gay.
I regret all the shame I used to feel. I'm proud of who I am. Knowing that I am a lesbian is a privilege and a blessing. I know it might not make sense to some people but I firmly believe that my Heavenly Father made me to be gay and He wants me to know who I am. When I think about it that way, I can't be ashamed."


The article is really good....it acknowledges that people who live within the BYU/church community, speak freely about their judgements, and have no idea that there are members who are gay, dwelling among them who are suffering internally because of all the judgements casts.

Here is the link...http://www.ldsliving.com/Lesbian-Mormon ... ce/s/86575

I also believe that the church is currently teaching gay members to live a celibate lifestyle...that they will have to backtrack on that. This is an extreme teaching, and we shouldn't expect others to live a lifestyle that leadership and priesthood holders would struggle to live themselves (this is my personal opinion).
I am trying to figure out why we can't use this same argument you espouse up there about heterosexual men in general.
Men are not born to be one women guys. They are born with desires for many sexual partners. Men can have a new sexual partner every other day with out it being a problem. Even after marraige, they will stare at other attractive women and be tempted by porn.

I don't know how anyone can deny that this adventurous noncommittal sexual nature is the true nature of a man, and he doesn't learn it, he was born this way. True Intent, you are living in a dream world if you even try to argue my point here? I remember some lines in the play "The King and I" wherein the King of Siam tells Anna that it is natural for him to go from woman to woman in his harem. He saw this kind of sexual behaviour as his identity. He likened this to being as normal and natural as a bee taking nectar from one flower after another. And for a man, it is.

So using this girls own argument, as well as your own, I should be guilt tripping everyone for not accepting a man like he is and allowing him to fulfill his own nature and be a polygamist. He should be able to "come out" without shame and stop the cruel wrestle he must make to master his nature. But you oppose that. If this is their nature, why stop them? Aren't we frustrating them and denying them the privilege to be themselves? After all, God made them that way. He really actually did. Why make marraige only between one man and one women, in order to make a guy marry one woman and stay with her forever, anymore than force a lesbian to marry a man and stay with him forever? Especially when he was not born with that as his natural sexual tendency?

The answer to this is so obvious it should go without saying. And what's good for the goose is good for the gander.
Wow....homosexuality does not equal promiscuity. I have know gay persons who have only had one partner their entire lives. You are inscinuating that God condones promiscuity or whoredoms, and that homosexuality equals promiscuous behavior. God does not make someone promiscuous....they start at the beginning and take things further down that path. Gay persons can have nonsexual thoughts, and only be attracted to their same sex...in the same way you are attracted to the opposite. I'm not saying we have to accept anything........but the way people are reacting, my mere suggestion has stuck a nerve, and people keep revealing their own ignorance.....has anyone ever had a real conversation with a gay person, even a gay religious person.

I'm saying reserve judgment if you haven't studied in depth some of the topics I posted above in some of my other posts. Btw, we could repeat that same line in the king and I to the actions of early church leaders on polygamy. I could make many disturbing comparisons to promiscuity and polygamy....I'm just trying to make a point with the article. Christ taught lust is adultery...when I talk about being more accepting of gays...I'm referring to spirit....there are things we may not understand. I believe in monogamy, and union of souls. Your comment is ignorant.
I was hardly making a "comment", and you are not answering my query, just emotionally reacting to it. In fact, you are nothing but highly emotional about the whole subject of homosexuality.

I dispute there is anything spiritual you are trying to get us to accept. I would say that, IMO, you are trying very very hard to get us to emotionally validate the girl in the article AS a homosexual. Every word in your OP was geared towards that goal. Every. single. word.
Ha..they are people. I hope you have emotions about. "Love thy neighbor as thyself". Maybe I'm empathetic. What's wrong with that? I don't think you should have to accept anything, I'm just making some very valid points about why we shouldn't judge others, and why the church appears to be soften its previous position (because I few years ago, this article would have never been on LDSlivjng. )

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TrueIntent
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Re: LDS LIVING--Lesbian says, "heavenly father made me to be gay."

Post by TrueIntent »

Gage wrote: October 9th, 2017, 6:32 am Just because someone says they did all these things in perfect faith and trust in the Lord does not mean they did all these things with perfect faith and trust in the Lord. Just because someone says they are born gay does not mean they are born gay.
Just because you say they are not doesn't mean they are not.....I can not imagine all these people have not gone to God about this....(come on now, some of them at least must have right). if he can heal desire for others types of sin, why are they not experiencing the atonement....are they all not genuine....I can not believe that. I also don't believe someone (especially in a highly relgious community) would choose this.....that is exactly what a gay returned missionary said to me..."why would I choose this and risk being ostracized by my family and community that I love." We need to stop dismissing people. Just because you don't believe it doesn't mean it's not true. And it's very real to them.

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TrueIntent
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Re: LDS LIVING--Lesbian says, "heavenly father made me to be gay."

Post by TrueIntent »

Elizabeth wrote: October 9th, 2017, 3:24 am https://www.lds.org/liahona/1995/11/ser ... g=eng&_r=1

https://www.lds.org/ensign/1995/09/serv ... 9?lang=eng

http://www.mormonnewsroom.org/article/s ... position-8



"The Church’s stand on homosexual relations provides another arena where we offend the devil. I expect that the statement of the First Presidency and the Twelve against homosexual marriages will continue to be assaulted. Satan is only interested in our misery, which he promotes by trying to persuade men and women to act contrary to God’s plan. One way he does this is by encouraging the inappropriate use of sacred creative powers. A bona fide marriage is one between a man and a woman solemnized by the proper legal or ecclesiastical authority. Only sexual relations between husband and wife within the bonds of marriage are acceptable before the Lord.

There is some widely accepted theory extant that homosexuality is inherited. How can this be? No scientific evidence demonstrates absolutely that this is so. Besides, if it were so, it would frustrate the whole plan of mortal happiness. Our designation as men or women began before this world was. In contrast to the socially accepted doctrine that homosexuality is inborn, a number of respectable authorities contend that homosexuality is not acquired by birth. The false belief of inborn homosexual orientation denies to repentant souls the opportunity to change and will ultimately lead to discouragement, disappointment, and despair.

Alternatives to the legal and loving marriage between a man and a woman are helping to unravel the fabric of human society. I am sure this is pleasing to the devil. The fabric I refer to is the family. These so-called alternative life-styles must not be accepted as right, because they frustrate God’s commandment for a life-giving union of male and female within a legal marriage as stated in Genesis. If practiced by all adults, these life-styles would mean the end of the human family."

It is Lucifers greatest triumph... homosexual lifestyle and abortion, both choices which result in keeping waiting spirits from obtaining their mortal bodies.
What about barren women..they can't have children....not everyone in a marriage has children. This is such a dark perspective you have,,,God has more power than this. Btw...have you ever studied medical history and science,...they are wrong all the time. And....who says gay people are miserable....the most common reason I have heard they are miserable is when they are denying what they believe about themselves.....that is when people are most mentally unhealthy in general, is when they feel they will not be loved and accepted foe something they believe they can't control.

Listen, have you studied ancient text and women. The bible has been heavily altered in translation....the more Ive studied, the more I take a different stance. Women say the say thing, in a male dominated scholarly world as well, THEY (the men) never asked the questions that would have lead them to more understanding about women and symbolism in the bible. Our biases and our hate, and ignorance, to people different than us is what will prevent us from accepting truth. You can quote LDS articles to me, truth is things as they really are....am i bias, sure....it doesn't make any sense to me that the atonement would not work or apply to these people, that they could never accept God's grace (and maybe that IS what many of them are doing) It does not make sense to me, that all these people are not acting with real intent or being genuine in their prayers. I do not want to cast so heavy of a judgement. What I believe right now is me doing my best. I believe that God is bigger and better than all of us, and that he is molding and shaping us. I believe many of these stories to be genuine...why....because I have asked some very direct questions to gays, and God. Most people won't even have a conversation with these people....it's real to them. Soooooooo...What can I learn?
Last edited by TrueIntent on October 9th, 2017, 7:40 am, edited 1 time in total.

Crackers
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Re: LDS LIVING--Lesbian says, "heavenly father made me to be gay."

Post by Crackers »

TrueIntent wrote: October 8th, 2017, 8:10 pm
Crackers wrote: October 8th, 2017, 7:09 pm I am MORE than a little skeptical of the assertion that the church uses this magazine to promote social change and perceptions. I am more inclined to agree with it being click bait.

This is what I think we will see more and more from church leaders: Clarification that homosexual acts are sinful, and a greater call for compassion and charity for those who suffer from that persuasion, whether it be inborn or learned behavior.
So, you believe that LDSliving content is not used to promote social issues within the church or to correct members cultural beliefs? My question to you would be, then what is LDSliving for? And why would the church own a publication that is used to bait members?
Yes, I think it is a magazine with a target audience. It doesn't have to have a specific cultural or social cause in order to exist. Most magazines exist in order to make a profit. I don't use LDSLiving as a companion to my scriptures in my personal studies. I don't use it to hone my views on homosexuality. If the brethren want to "push" an agenda as you are saying, they have better venues to do that.

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TrueIntent
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Re: LDS LIVING--Lesbian says, "heavenly father made me to be gay."

Post by TrueIntent »

Crackers wrote: October 9th, 2017, 7:38 am
TrueIntent wrote: October 8th, 2017, 8:10 pm
Crackers wrote: October 8th, 2017, 7:09 pm I am MORE than a little skeptical of the assertion that the church uses this magazine to promote social change and perceptions. I am more inclined to agree with it being click bait.

This is what I think we will see more and more from church leaders: Clarification that homosexual acts are sinful, and a greater call for compassion and charity for those who suffer from that persuasion, whether it be inborn or learned behavior.
So, you believe that LDSliving content is not used to promote social issues within the church or to correct members cultural beliefs? My question to you would be, then what is LDSliving for? And why would the church own a publication that is used to bait members?
Yes, I think it is a magazine with a target audience. It doesn't have to have a specific cultural or social cause in order to exist. Most magazines exist in order to make a profit. I don't use LDSLiving as a companion to my scriptures in my personal studies. I don't use it to hone my views on homosexuality. If the brethren want to "push" an agenda as you are saying, they have better venues to do that.
Lol....I agree...they should use the scriptures and "revealed revelation" and post on their official website. They do have better venues. It doesn't shape my views on homosexuality, and maybe "pushing an agenda" is too harsh...they do use to plant seeds and ideas I believe. So after the church essays came it, it was a mess...the church began publishing articles with a slant, you know sugar coating some of the information....it's the church's way of exposing members to issues....Most won't read scriptures or even listen to conference talks after the fact, but they will share things on social media that matter to them. (like i am doing right now)....Im ' mostly just making a point that the church NO LONGER teaches people are not born with this feelings (which opens up a whole litany of doctrinal questions in a good way). But most people in the church, who claim to follow leaders, won't acknowledge this. It's been on the mormons and Gays website forever....when the church says "i don't know", when they used to say they knew, it means....they are changing their stance, and YES they believe some people MAY be born this way. People won't believe that God makes people a certain way....but you can find instances in the scriptures where God says he made people deaf, mute, blind....he also made people male and female....he does make certain things certain way.........ooooo...that points out a contradiction.....we claim that we are born with our "male and female" divine nature already in place...if we then acknowledge that people are born Gay....what does that mean...to me, it doesn't have to contradict....but of course the church has always meant in a literal sense...I view this spiritually. (anyway...thats not your question but just a thought.

Also, what's interesting, is that I believe it was BYU students, or some organization on campus that did the official interview, and then it appears LDSliving picked it up. based on my understanding, LDSliving chooses what they will feature. But it tells you what may be going on at BYU campus.

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TrueIntent
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Re: LDS LIVING--Lesbian says, "heavenly father made me to be gay."

Post by TrueIntent »

TrueIntent wrote: October 9th, 2017, 7:54 am
Crackers wrote: October 9th, 2017, 7:38 am
TrueIntent wrote: October 8th, 2017, 8:10 pm
Crackers wrote: October 8th, 2017, 7:09 pm I am MORE than a little skeptical of the assertion that the church uses this magazine to promote social change and perceptions. I am more inclined to agree with it being click bait.

This is what I think we will see more and more from church leaders: Clarification that homosexual acts are sinful, and a greater call for compassion and charity for those who suffer from that persuasion, whether it be inborn or learned behavior.
So, you believe that LDSliving content is not used to promote social issues within the church or to correct members cultural beliefs? My question to you would be, then what is LDSliving for? And why would the church own a publication that is used to bait members?
Yes, I think it is a magazine with a target audience. It doesn't have to have a specific cultural or social cause in order to exist. Most magazines exist in order to make a profit. I don't use LDSLiving as a companion to my scriptures in my personal studies. I don't use it to hone my views on homosexuality. If the brethren want to "push" an agenda as you are saying, they have better venues to do that.
Lol....I agree...they should use the scriptures and "revealed revelation" and post on their official website. They do have better venues. It doesn't shape my views on homosexuality, and maybe "pushing an agenda" is too harsh...they do use to plant seeds and ideas I believe. So after the church essays came it, it was a mess...the church began publishing articles with a slant, you know sugar coating some of the information....it's the church's way of exposing members to issues....Most won't read scriptures or even listen to conference talks after the fact, but they will share things on social media that matter to them. (like i am doing right now)....Im ' mostly just making a point that the church NO LONGER teaches people are not born with this feelings (which opens up a whole litany of doctrinal questions in a good way). But most people in the church, who claim to follow leaders, won't acknowledge this. It's been on the mormons and Gays website forever....when the church says "i don't know", when they used to say they knew, it means....they are changing their stance, and YES they believe some people MAY be born this way. People won't believe that God makes people a certain way....but you can find instances in the scriptures where God says he made people deaf, mute, blind....he also made people male and female....he does make certain things certain way.........ooooo...that points out a contradiction.....we claim that we are born with our "male and female" divine nature already in place...if we then acknowledge that people are born Gay....what does that mean...to me, it doesn't have to contradict....but of course the church has always meant in a literal sense...I view this spiritually. (anyway...thats not your question but just a thought.

Also, what's interesting, is that I believe it was BYU students, or some organization on campus that did the official interview, and then it appears LDSliving picked it up. based on my understanding, LDSliving chooses what they will feature. But it tells you what may be going on at BYU campus.
Another question I would ask...if LDSLIVING is merely used to push a profit, why would a church owned publication be allowed to use the church's name if they completely disagree with the content. That feels wrong to me, that they would publish any old thing for the sake of money....it reminds me of Satan in the temple video..."you can buy anything in this world for money"....I don't think, and I hope the church would never allow that. The church does a lot of good, I would hope money doesnt trump it's goodness.

Sunain
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Re: LDS LIVING--Lesbian says, "heavenly father made me to be gay."

Post by Sunain »

TrueIntent wrote: October 9th, 2017, 7:56 am Another question I would ask...if LDSLIVING is merely used to push a profit, why would a church owned publication be allowed to use the church's name if they completely disagree with the content. That feels wrong to me, that they would publish any old thing for the sake of money....it reminds me of Satan in the temple video..."you can buy anything in this world for money"....I don't think, and I hope the church would never allow that. The church does a lot of good, I would hope money doesnt trump it's goodness.
Here's your answer:
LDS Living Magazine is an independent work, and is not an official publication of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. The views expressed in the magazine are the responsibility of the various authors and do not necessarily represent the positions of the Church. Contributors include Church members and members of other faiths.
http://www.ldsliving.com/about_us

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TrueIntent
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Re: LDS LIVING--Lesbian says, "heavenly father made me to be gay."

Post by TrueIntent »

5tev3 wrote: October 8th, 2017, 9:21 pm When you label yourself by your weakness then you make it much more difficult for yourself. No doubt that living with those inclinations is a big challenge. But so are many other things. Trying to pattern your life after God requires a difficult path through mists of darkness and much sacrifice.

Although I have studied the topic, I also understand the gospel and the purpose of marriage and male and female becoming one. I also understand that we have choice, and that we must choose the right even when it is hard or seems impossible to do so. Sacrifice brings forth the blessings of heaven. God gives us weaknesses so that we will have something to offer at the altar.

When I got married I gave up the opportunity to engage sexually with other women. I live every day knowing that my wife is the only one I have ever or will ever know intimately. I’m willing to do that. Doesn’t matter how attractive other women are, I cleave to my wife because this is God’s design for men and woman. In Eden he separated woman from man, he took one flesh and divided it into two incomplete parts. For this cause, the marriage covenant brings about one flesh and restores two into one.

It’s never been anything else. The entirety of the doctrine is based on this dynamic. There is 0 doctrinal basis for it, it doesn’t exist. People need true doctrine, not excuses for remaining in a state that robs them of the blessings of God’s covenants.

Again, I’m not saying this is easy, but the entire gospel is not easy. It is HARD to walk the path and this is by design. We are meant to wrestle, climb, and seek, this is part of everyone’s journey and we all have a different thing or thing to struggle with. We all have the natural man to overcome.

People who struggle with anything deserve our love and fellowship, but we will not encourage people in a path that leads them away from God’s highest blessings. That is not love.

I agree with you about "male and female being one"...i believe that is necessary. And I'm not trying to make a case for exaltation....but I don't necessarily believe there isn't one.....if I can make a case for a heavenly mother, from just symbolism, I'm sure I could for this, but Im not as well read on this topic...Im just making a point, the church's case is "we don't know...they may be born that way...which means we believe some are....So from that, we should make some new doctrinal cases...about grace, the atonement...etc.

But I have heard the phrase about Eunuchs in the bible where Christ says there are some that are single for the sake of heaven, and there are angels that are single in heaven....to use the word Eunuch, well that's a male with not testes (this has cultural implications, as Eunuchs have interesting roles.) and...because of all the variations in the human body...we always say, that God will sort it all it...like Im assuming this is what a church would tell a hermaphrodite...why would we not believe the same about Gays. About the male and female becoming one....what if they are doing their absolute best...Would grace not apply, and would they not be entitled to the same blessings? I just feel like there is a denial of grace here....and maybe the atonement....could the atonement not change their desire (if so, why are we teaching celibacy and behavior control).....I don't know that I believe there is zero doctrinal basis for it....like I said....people have had near death experiences where they were with their partner in heaven....does that not constitute personal revelation for an individual??? I just don't want to be dismissive. Like what is personal revelation? I don''t think being gay has anything to do with being attracted to someone necessarily......some of the most beautiful people feel ugly.....you can be drawn to someones spirit or repulsed by it. if its not about the outward, can't it be about the inward...and it is pretty clear some gay males have feminine spirits. I mean....so far...Im not convinced.

Im really not trying to preach doctrinally here, i haven't heavily studied this enough to be an expert, but I have studied it enough to have a strong opinion...my passion is women in scripture....i am a woman ...i do study heavenly mother, and women a lot....but because of my studies on women, and life experiences, i tend to defend the minority...and what I have realized is that there are somethings we have hidden, because it bothers us that women could have "power". All I know, is that the church has a different stance...we now teach "we don't know if they are born this way"(from an apostle)....and LDSLiving took it up a notch by publishing an article that said they were absolutely born this way.....this opens up new doctrinal questions that we should discuss.

Fiannan
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Re: LDS LIVING--Lesbian says, "heavenly father made me to be gay."

Post by Fiannan »

This is really interesting. Young women today will absolutely see lesbian relationships in the dramas they watch, the music videos they tune into, they will hear about them in their conversations with friends, will see the colorful rainbow banners, and they are the most popular porn genre for young women. And not only that now they can hear how fantastic it is to be a lesbian Mormon. Oh sure, you might have to skip the marriage thing, for the time being, in Church but at this rate I am not sure for how long.

Maybe with the shortage of active male LDS men today this could be an alternative?

As for the concrete reasoning people who might be reading this there is such a thing as using irony to make a point.

Fiannan
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Re: LDS LIVING--Lesbian says, "heavenly father made me to be gay."

Post by Fiannan »

What about barren women..they can't have children....not everyone in a marriage has children.
And what about all the Mormon people who never touched a cigarette in their lives who die of lung cancer? Does this negate the WofW?

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