Elder Ballard spoke against Julie Rowe and Denver Snuffer

[Hogmeister]

I'm hoping and believing that Elder Ballard and Elder Cook are just a bit ignorant of the magnitude and methods of the secret combination in our day. I just felt they had both sipped to much controlled media vomit. Elder Cook gave me a bad taste after his Sandy Hook talk some years ago. But this was a first for Elder Ballard. Unless you gain more light and knowledge you really are subject to your enemies schemes.

That said I agree that sexism and racism is morally wrong and nationalism can be morally wrong but not always as the scriptures make clear. But I just felt Elder Ballard joined the chorus of the anti-america globalist agenda. I also was a bit turned away by his over-confidence in the virtue of the health care megabucks industry. Now that is a money making scheme worth mentioning in GC.

I bet President Benson would have had a word or two to say this conference. Now that was an apostle who understood the book of Mormon warnings.

I would not be surprised if Elder Ballard or Elder Cook talked about global warming, vaccination or gun control next conference. I hope I'm wrong though.

I appreciate Elder Ballard going after Snuffer and Rowe though so He was not all disturbing.

[ebenezerarise]

Good grief, Hog. Have you got a filter or what? I have to wonder in the wisdom of question one who has likely seen more world than you have and one whose mission and calling are to warn you. Just what talk were you listening to?

[Silver]

I'm hoping and believing that Elder Ballard and Elder Cook are just a bit ignorant of the magnitude and methods of the secret combination in our day. I just felt they had both sipped to much controlled media vomit. Elder Cook gave me a bad taste after his Sandy Hook talk some years ago. But this was a first for Elder Ballard. Unless you gain more light and knowledge you really are subject to your enemies schemes.

That said I agree that sexism and racism is morally wrong and nationalism can be morally wrong but not always as the scriptures make clear. But I just felt Elder Ballard joined the chorus of the anti-america globalist agenda. I also was a bit turned away by his over-confidence in the virtue of the health care megabucks industry. Now that is a money making scheme worth mentioning in GC.

I bet President Benson would have had a word or two to say this conference. Now that was an apostle who understood the book of Mormon warnings.

I would not be surprised if Elder Ballard or Elder Cook talked about global warming, vaccination or gun control next conference. I hope I'm wrong though.

I appreciate Elder Ballard going after Snuffer and Rowe though so He was not all disturbing.

President Benson also said that a living prophet is more important than a dead, which he is, prophet. I have total respect for President Benson. He is my hero and a major reason why my family joined the Church back in 1970. If the Church is the Lord's kingdom on earth and secret combinations are the most important tool of the adversary, I think it is a bit naive to speculate that the Lord's special witnesses are unaware of the activities of the evil one.

[Silver]

Ears to hear. Eyes to see. That's what this all comes down to. Both sides of this discussion claim gnosis or testimony as their bedrock position.

Context, though, is important. Has Julie Rowe, for example, already caught the attention of Church leadership? Yes. Church Education personnel were instructed to not use her material in seminary classes, if I recall correctly. I think the warning included the word "spurious." And yet at least some of her proponents who are members of the Church did not back off. What happened? Elder Ballard issued a warning over the pulpit of the Conference Center. The word of the Lord as spoken by His Apostle. Ignore it at your peril.

And so on with Denver Snuffer (rightfully excommunicated) or elitism (unrighteous dominion based on national origin or gender or race) of any kind. Ignore the warnings at your peril.

[Fiannan]

Just found this. Not really sure how it fits (haha) but why not share?

[Z2100]

I'm hoping and believing that Elder Ballard and Elder Cook are just a bit ignorant of the magnitude and methods of the secret combination in our day. I just felt they had both sipped to much controlled media vomit. Elder Cook gave me a bad taste after his Sandy Hook talk some years ago. But this was a first for Elder Ballard. Unless you gain more light and knowledge you really are subject to your enemies schemes.

That said I agree that sexism and racism is morally wrong and nationalism can be morally wrong but not always as the scriptures make clear. But I just felt Elder Ballard joined the chorus of the anti-america globalist agenda. I also was a bit turned away by his over-confidence in the virtue of the health care megabucks industry. Now that is a money making scheme worth mentioning in GC.

I bet President Benson would have had a word or two to say this conference. Now that was an apostle who understood the book of Mormon warnings.

I would not be surprised if Elder Ballard or Elder Cook talked about global warming, vaccination or gun control next conference. I hope I'm wrong though.

I appreciate Elder Ballard going after Snuffer and Rowe though so He was not all disturbing.

I loved it when he said "and may I add woma(e)n" when he was talking about false prophets.

[Hogmeister]

I'm hoping and believing that Elder Ballard and Elder Cook are just a bit ignorant of the magnitude and methods of the secret combination in our day. I just felt they had both sipped to much controlled media vomit. Elder Cook gave me a bad taste after his Sandy Hook talk some years ago. But this was a first for Elder Ballard. Unless you gain more light and knowledge you really are subject to your enemies schemes.

That said I agree that sexism and racism is morally wrong and nationalism can be morally wrong but not always as the scriptures make clear. But I just felt Elder Ballard joined the chorus of the anti-america globalist agenda. I also was a bit turned away by his over-confidence in the virtue of the health care megabucks industry. Now that is a money making scheme worth mentioning in GC.

I bet President Benson would have had a word or two to say this conference. Now that was an apostle who understood the book of Mormon warnings.

I would not be surprised if Elder Ballard or Elder Cook talked about global warming, vaccination or gun control next conference. I hope I'm wrong though.

I appreciate Elder Ballard going after Snuffer and Rowe though so He was not all disturbing.

President Benson also said that a living prophet is more important than a dead, which he is, prophet. I have total respect for President Benson. He is my hero and a major reason why my family joined the Church back in 1970. If the Church is the Lord's kingdom on earth and secret combinations are the most important tool of the adversary, I think it is a bit naive to speculate that the Lord's special witnesses are unaware of the activities of the evil one.

Research the interesting poitical fight between Elder Ezra Taft Benson and Elder Hugh B. Brown. Both special witnessess but one of them totally unaware or worse. I think it's a bit naive to think that all apostles have full knowledge. Knowledge only comes individually after you ask, seek and knock. However, I try to cover weakness or ignorance in my brethren with a cloak of charity as I hope they would do to me.

[Fiannan]

One thing that worries me about context is to lump words like "nationalism" and "racism" within the talk. If he was referring to that sort of nationalism that begins to see poeple outside a particular national identity as inferior then that would easily have been covered with the word "racism." I actually fear he might mean parties in Europe for instance that are standing up against the European Union, or even people in the USA who call themselves "constitutionalists." It matters not though, the people who are liberal or globalist minions within the Church will use Ballard's words to try to bring shame to those with more conservative values.

And this does not even cover "sexism" which could have been covered with the word "equality." Is he so out-of-touch that he does not realize that in today's political debates the word "sexism" is basically owned and used by the pink pussy hat types?

[Silver]

I'm hoping and believing that Elder Ballard and Elder Cook are just a bit ignorant of the magnitude and methods of the secret combination in our day. I just felt they had both sipped to much controlled media vomit. Elder Cook gave me a bad taste after his Sandy Hook talk some years ago. But this was a first for Elder Ballard. Unless you gain more light and knowledge you really are subject to your enemies schemes.

That said I agree that sexism and racism is morally wrong and nationalism can be morally wrong but not always as the scriptures make clear. But I just felt Elder Ballard joined the chorus of the anti-america globalist agenda. I also was a bit turned away by his over-confidence in the virtue of the health care megabucks industry. Now that is a money making scheme worth mentioning in GC.

I bet President Benson would have had a word or two to say this conference. Now that was an apostle who understood the book of Mormon warnings.

I would not be surprised if Elder Ballard or Elder Cook talked about global warming, vaccination or gun control next conference. I hope I'm wrong though.

I appreciate Elder Ballard going after Snuffer and Rowe though so He was not all disturbing.

President Benson also said that a living prophet is more important than a dead, which he is, prophet. I have total respect for President Benson. He is my hero and a major reason why my family joined the Church back in 1970. If the Church is the Lord's kingdom on earth and secret combinations are the most important tool of the adversary, I think it is a bit naive to speculate that the Lord's special witnesses are unaware of the activities of the evil one.

Research the interesting poitical fight between Elder Ezra Taft Benson and Elder Hugh B. Brown. Both special witnessess but one of them totally unaware or worse. I think it's a bit naive to think that all apostles have full knowledge. Knowledge only comes individually after you ask, seek and knock.

Hint, hint...both Elders Benson and Brown are dead. Are you going to obey a living prophet or follow a dead one?

[Robin Hood]

I am in the camp that the nationalism that both Elder Cook and Elder Ballard were talking about is that nationalism that results from pride wherein people believe they are better than others simply because they are from the United States, or Canada, or Great Britain, or any other country. While it is true the United States Constitution was inspired by God, and went on to inspire many other Constitutions around the world, that inspiration in founding the U.S. does not make a U.S. citizen better than anyone else. Nationalism can be used as an excuse for hate, and that is what the Apostles were condemning. I think the Lord, through His servants, is reminding us to be more humble and charitable to those of other nationalities, faiths, etc. Remember, charity seeketh not her own.

I think you nailed it RAB.
As a case in point the situation with Scottish nationalism is very instructive. There are a number of Scots who desire independence from the UK. They are in the minority, but there are still quite a lot of them. However, it is very interesting to note that they consist of two main types of people.

1. Those who feel independence would give them an opportunity to go in a new direction and build a better Scotland for it's people.

2. Those who hate the English.

I think Elder Ballard's remarks were aimed at those in the second category.

[brlenox]

Which is more expensive now, Medical Health Care or Energy Healing?

You genuinely make a good point. My wife has been worried that if I ever lose my job, we won't have health insurance, although it did no good for her degenerative disk disease, which confined her to bed. It wasn't until I prayed to the Lord that I may heal her that she can now get around, wear heels to church and help shovel snow in winter. My bishop, who I love, prefers I first resort to doctors before asking my hometeachers or anyone in the ward to be healed. In my experience, or rather, observation, the only use for priesthood anymore is to exercise authority over one another. I don't agree with energy healing or anything of the sort. My faith to heal and to be healed rests in Christ alone. BUT that said, I don't blame some folks for resorting to whatever means they can when they cannot find anyone with faith enough to heal them.

Your point is not without merit, however that I believe is the state of issue being made by Elder Nelson in his Paying the Price for Priesthood Power and even Elder packer when he said years ago in the Talk "The Power Of The Priesthood":

We have done very well at distributing the authority of the priesthood. We have priesthood authority planted nearly everywhere. We have quorums of elders and high priests worldwide. But distributing the authority of the priesthood has raced, I think, ahead of distributing the power of the priesthood. The priesthood does not have the strength that it should have and will not have until the power of the priesthood is firmly fixed in the families as it should be.

As for your Bishops recommendations to seek medical help this is an interesting subject as there are sound recommendations on both sides of this discussion where Apostles and Prophets have encouraged us to eschew them and others have stated to seek them out. I am not willing to personally pit Apostles against Apostles but in many cases have seen where both sides are appropriate in their separate issues. Many times I believe that it is after the medical professions failures that we see the conditions are perfect for what Christ stated in John 9:2 about the man born blind:

John 9:2
3 Jesus answered, Neither hath this man sinned, nor his parents: but that the works of God should be made manifest in him.

It is very compelling when all that can be done has been done and then someone exercises priesthood authority to heal an issue where all have failed and more clearly makes the statement that priesthood healings are the works of God.

Your observation about exercising authority is an unfortunate and errant conclusion. The first time I ever cast Satan out of someone using the power of the priesthood was not long after I had been made Bishop and in fact most of my priesthood experience exposure was initiated during that time of my life. I was young but it has followed from there for many years and is more prevalent even now in my life than it was then. I consider your comment a broad brush stroke that may be such for limited experience or something else on your part.

[marc]

Your observation about exercising authority is an unfortunate and errant conclusion. The first time I ever cast Satan out of someone using the power of the priesthood was not long after I had been made Bishop and in fact most of my priesthood experience exposure was initiated during that time of my life. I was young but it has followed from there for many years and is more prevalent even now in my life than it was then. I consider your comment a broad brush stroke that may be such for limited experience or something else on your part.

Yes, it was a broad brush stroke. We'll call it something else on my part.

[Hogmeister]

Racism, sexism and nationalism are accusations thrown by those who would cause division in a world that has actually improved quite a bit in all those areas relative to history but now they want a world in commotion. The accusations are made in order to reignite division. Many use these loaded words ignorantly though.

Or it could be that Elder Ballard and Elder Cook are cunningly trying to make the church a smaller target for the globalists even if it's just temporarily.

[Ezra]

Ezra and Silver say they love America ... but!

Those are rather big buts.

Sort of like the wife who says she likes sex. Once every six months.

To say you like sex. Once every six months. Is not to say you like sex. It's to say you don't like sex.

So to say you love America ... but. Means you don't love America.
dc

Who gives you the right to think that you know me well enough to judge me? You know nothing about me. I fell that you are just trying to attack out of spite. I fell you are Trying to slander to to make our comments somehow less meaningful.

David are you a nationalist? If the answer is yes. Take up your anger and frustration to the lord and his servant who warned about nationalism.

Don't get angry that I agree with elder Ballard.

Ezra, don't kid yourself, I know far more about you than you think.

And I judge not, it's merely as assessment.

Maybe it's so aggravating to you because the shoe fits.

How do you know you agree with Elder Ballard when you don't know what his definition or intent is when he uses the word nationalism.
dc

So you believe yourself to be an all knowing being of sorts when it comes to a person you have never met? I have already said the shoe doesn't fit. I'm the one to know. It's my foot. Your in no position to know anything except your foot.

Saying you "judge not" doesn't make it so. The fact that your trying to place labels on me screams a different story.

How do I know I agree with elder Ballard. Easy I agree with him. And I have the ability to look up a definition of a word. Which means exactly what I think it means.

David are you a nationalist? If so take your anger and put it on yourself for being wrong. Repent.

[brlenox]

Your observation about exercising authority is an unfortunate and errant conclusion. The first time I ever cast Satan out of someone using the power of the priesthood was not long after I had been made Bishop and in fact most of my priesthood experience exposure was initiated during that time of my life. I was young but it has followed from there for many years and is more prevalent even now in my life than it was then. I consider your comment a broad brush stroke that may be such for limited experience or something else on your part.

Yes, it was a broad brush stroke. We'll call it something else on my part.

Just a humorous thought - intended to be such but have you ever sat on a pond bank very still and quite and watched a frog slowly rise to the top with only it's eyes peering out? He just barely extends himself out of the water with those two eyes and the tiniest surface where the two nostrils barely break the surface. The other 99% of his body he keeps unexposed and protected and covered and camouflaged beneath the surface. If there is any notice, or suspect movement he darts away and buries himself in the mud only to peak forth a few minutes later somewhere else.

Sometimes conversing with you is like that little frog. You'll toss a little bit out there but if anyone takes notice and tries to engage it you dart away and bury yourself only to come back a little later to barely expose your eyes and nose again.

Still some of my fondest memories are watching frogs.

[marc]

Brlenox, I would be accused of boasting, and rightly so, if I continued to engage frankly and share things about my life. I try not to share too much about myself, but instead, what I have learned and do learn and let the principles speak for themselves. I am still weak, fallen and sinful. Once in a while, I cannot help but be frank. And if I cannot always be completely charitable when being forthright, I hope others can be as compassionate and humorous as you.

[Rose Garden]

Definition of secret: 1 a :something kept hidden or unexplained :mystery. b :something kept from the knowledge of others or shared only confidentially with a few. c :a method, formula, or process used in an art or operation and divulged only to those of one's own company or craft :trade secret. https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/secret

So in accordance with this definition, Temple doctrine and teachings are secret. They are kept from the knowledge of those outside the Temple and shared confidentially only with the few that attend the Temple.

Just because Church members are trained to repeat the mantra ‘sacred not secret’ doesn’t change the fact that they are secret.

Confidential then. They are not secret for two reasons.
1. Oathbreakers have shared the sacred information outside of the temple, revealing to their own damnation that which they promised to hold dear.
2. The Church and its members spend millions of dollars every year trying to get more people to learn this sacred (not secret) information.

And if you think about it, more people on the other side of the veil know about the temple ordinances than don't know about them on this side. Not a very well kept secret, is it?

When I was in institute, I had a teacher who emphasized that the temple ceremony was both sacred and secret. I guess that stuck with me. I don't ever recall hearing that the temple was "sacred not secret." But I do recall hearing it was both. I have no problem with it being referred to as secret.

Elder Ballard warned against those who "offer secret answers" that are unknown by apostles.

Yes, we are all commanded to seek more knowledge.

But it is arrogant and dangerous to assume we have secret knowledge for the salvation of God's children than His prophet and apostles don't have or refuse to share with us. It's their job to know and to impart that knowledge. If you think they could be so wrong about something so fundamental to our salvation, it's going to be really hard to not be taken in by counterfeits.

Thanks for clarifying the quote. As I mentioned before, I couldn't access the talk and the way the first poster I responded to stated it, it didn't make sense to me. I had no idea the idea that many LDS members believe the temple ordinances are not secret. It seems fairly obvious to me that they are. It makes much more sense the way you've put it here.

[Silver]

Racism, sexism and nationalism is mainly accusations thrown by those who would cause division in a world that has actually improved quite a bit in all those areas relative to history. The accusations are made in order to reignite division.

Or it could be that Elder Ballard and Elder Cook conciously are trying to make the church a smaller target for the globalists even if it's just temporarily.

Now you're accusing Elder Ballard of trying to create a division in the Church? Or that both he and Elder Cook are trying to make the Church appear insignificant to the NWO instead of boldly proclaiming the Lord's truth?

[Fiannan]

Research the interesting poitical fight between Elder Ezra Taft Benson and Elder Hugh B. Brown. Both special witnessess but one of them totally unaware or worse. I think it's a bit naive to think that all apostles have full knowledge. Knowledge only comes individually after you ask, seek and knock.

Even prophets are limited in how they see and interpret the world. We are told that John and Abraham both were shown the future of the earth -- and by that we assume they were shown technology that has yet to be developed. Yet John speaks of metal hornets and vast armies on horses. Really? Why not describe the airplanes they saw, battle cruisers and the like? Simple, they saw them but had to interpret the sights from their own perspective.

[Fiannan]

Hint, hint...both Elders Benson and Brown are dead. Are you going to obey a living prophet or follow a dead one?

Talk about sowing seeds of division Mr. Silver.

[David13]

Research the interesting poitical fight between Elder Ezra Taft Benson and Elder Hugh B. Brown. Both special witnessess but one of them totally unaware or worse. I think it's a bit naive to think that all apostles have full knowledge. Knowledge only comes individually after you ask, seek and knock.

Even prophets are limited in how they see and interpret the world. We are told that John and Abraham both were shown the future of the earth -- and by that we assume they were shown technology that has yet to be developed. Yet John speaks of metal hornets and vast armies on horses. Really? Why not describe the airplanes they saw, battle cruisers and the like? Simple, they saw them but had to interpret the sights from their own perspective.

There you have it. This is what I am saying.
I believe that many in the Church, many in the entire Christian world believe that the NWO will be this benevolent, everybody happy, hugs and kisses peaceful co-existence. They simply don't understand how socialism/communism works. And has worked every time in the past. They never learned about the purges, and the closed churches, etc.
dc

[Hogmeister]

Racism, sexism and nationalism is mainly accusations thrown by those who would cause division in a world that has actually improved quite a bit in all those areas relative to history. The accusations are made in order to reignite division.

Or it could be that Elder Ballard and Elder Cook conciously are trying to make the church a smaller target for the globalists even if it's just temporarily.

Now you're accusing Elder Ballard of trying to create a division in the Church? Or that both he and Elder Cook are trying to make the Church appear insignificant to the NWO instead of boldly proclaiming the Lord's truth?

Lol... the only accusation I possibly make is that of some ignorance which is hardly sensational as we all as humans have ignorant spots even our leadership.

[Hogmeister]

Good grief, Hog. Have you got a filter or what? I have to wonder in the wisdom of question one who has likely seen more world than you have and one whose mission and calling are to warn you. Just what talk were you listening to?

The talk the spirit gave But then again my wife thinks I am to sensitive to the NWO banker schemes and over-analyze. I am a scandinavian banker by the way so I might be at an advantage/disadvantage.

[brlenox]

Brlenox, I would be accused of boasting, and rightly so, if I continued to engage frankly and share things about my life. I try not to share too much about myself, but instead, what I have learned and do learn and let the principles speak for themselves. I am still weak, fallen and sinful. Once in a while, I cannot help but be frank. And if I cannot always be completely charitable when being forthright, I hope others can be as compassionate and humorous as you.

I so understand, as I very seldom share anything specific, or much more than just enough to point in the right direction anything of the miraculous or such. But I can stretch a doctrinal discussion all around the specifics and hope people can sense the testimony. But hey you don't need to go into personal detail of great events to be accused of boasting - I get accused of that kind of thing all the time just from being a know it all.

[Stourme]

It's amazing how the church has confined miraculous healing to "properly ordained priesthood holders." It's almost like nobody studies the scriptures anymore. Miracles are wrought by FAITH. Period. You cannot find a scripture where someone was healed "by the power of the priesthood." Faith is the requirement. This allows all in the world to benefit from THEIR FAITH, not some exclusive group of men.

Miracles are wrought through the priesthood by way of faith of the person receiving the blessing. It's always been the case.

The scriptures need to be read through the understanding of the prophets. Meaning, the prophets can help us fill in the parts that aren't explicitly spelled out in the scriptures. You can't expect the writers to quote the priesthood manual every time the word "miracle" is mentioned. It's up to the reader to understand the doctrines and what brings about the miracle.

Rev 11 is a very special chapter of scripture.

It talks about two Apostles that will be killed in the streets of Jerusalem just before the second coming.

Verse 4 makes it clear where these Apostles are getting their instructions:
Rev 11
4 These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.

They stand before God.

Elder Ballard is getting his teachings directly from God, because he stands before God.


-Stourme