Snuffer LIVE From Los Angeles California

[Ezra]

2 nephi 28 11-12.

I can see the pride. Can you?

The belief that the lds church is not who he is talking about is prideful. It's puffed up. It's exactly what nephi is saying about the churches of our day too.

The lds church is included and it's not the only one.

"30 And also those to whom these commandments were given, might have power to lay the foundation of this church, and to bring it forth out of obscurity and out of darkness, the only true and living church upon the face of the whole earth, with which I, the Lord, am well pleased, speaking unto the church collectively and not individually"

Being well pleased of a baby dosent mean it doesn't have stinky diapers.

The lord can be pleased with us. And yet is not be perfect. Curruption need work need repentance. And so on. Keep trying though.

The Church = Baby (the lord is well pleased)
Diapers = Individuals in the church (we all have need to repent and things to fix)

The Lord still loves his baby

Yep lord loves his baby. And yet the baby is the one that poops into those diapers.

The baby is not perfect. It needs to grow, learn, progress.

Knowing it's a baby means that we stay humble. We know it's not perfect. If it was perfect it would be the millennium.

It's not the millennium. The baby has stinky poop.

[Seek the Truth]

Major prophesy was uttered, IMHO.

For interested people who missed it, the highlights were as follows:

• He spent time on discussing what it means to "be sent."

• He taught the doctrine of Christ.

• Invited all to be baptized.

• Said read Matthew 24, which is about the signs immediately preceding the Second Coming.

• Said the signs have begun.

• Referred to verse 34 saying ALL the signs will be fulfilled in THIS generation. Big time prophesy.

• Said to be of good cheer, that prophets will be among you. As in PLURALITY of prophets.

• Said that if you're going to listen to a preacher who says he has a message from God, you should only listen to one who has been sent.

• He bore testimony at the end that he knows Christ lives, for he has seen Him, as Paul saw Him.

• He compared himself to Noah.

• Said the end times will be like Noah's day. That's the scary part. But said the good news is that there will be prophets sent, just as Noah was sent.

Lol seems like the arm of flesh is making a real comeback in Snufferland.

[Seek the Truth]

I have to give you credit for bringing some scriptures to the table, including the AoF one above. The questions relative to organization should be considered.

1) What did God command to be done on April 6, 1830? God commanded something to be organized. What was that something? We know it wasn't a corporation sole that was commanded to be established.
2) Whatever that something was, what was its purpose?
3) How long was that something that was organized to serve its purpose?
4) Could it be that that something served its purpose? Perhaps the organization that Joseph started was utilized for a wise purpose by God?
5) It was the will of Christ that He personally call 12 apostles in His day. What lesson do we learn from Judas' apostasy about God's will and apostles whom He calls?

And it still should be readily apparent and acknowledged by ALL intelligent and honest people that quite obviously any organization or institution (and ESPECIALLY large ones and ones that have members of the holy priesthood) is the target for corruption by the Adversary. In the Temple, what does Satan boldly declare, threaten and promise? That with gold and silver he will buy up such organizations and institutions which would include false priests that oppress, with the ultimate goal to reign with blood and horror upon this earth.

Thank you.

How do you not know the answers to these questions?

[Thomas]

The Lord may have been well pleased with the church in 1831 but by September 1832, the Lord put the church under condemnation. Things went down hill from there. If you want to accept the revelations of God through the prophet Joseph Smith, then accept them all. Don't just accept the ones that flatter the church.

We can see that by 1833, the Lord punished the saints quite severely for their transgressions. He used the Missouri mobs to persecute the saints but they refused to accept it was the hand of the Lord punishing them. The church still refuses to acknowledge it. (see D&C 101).

By 1844, God had given the church enough chances to repent and they would not, so God took Joseph and Hyrum away from them and cursed the church and the saints. ( see D&C 124).

God kept the curse on the saints till 2013. He sent a messenger to the saints to give them an opportunity to repent. Some few did. Some few did acknowledge that we are not in the good graces of our Lord. Most did not and stoned the prophet that God had sent them, just like all those who gone before them.

The pride shown is unreal. The scriptures are so true. They predicted the prideful saints would not repent. They are just like all other previous generations. " We are the children of Abraham" , they say. " So we cannot go astray".

They don't understand that God can make children of Abraham out of the rocks.

[Arenera]

The Lord may have been well pleased with the church in 1831 but by September 1832, the Lord put the church under condemnation. Things went down hill from there. If you want to accept the revelations of God through the prophet Joseph Smith, then accept them all. Don't just accept the ones that flatter the church.

We can see that by 1833, the Lord punished the saints quite severely for their transgressions. He used the Missouri mobs to persecute the saints but they refused to accept it was the hand of the Lord punishing them. The church still refuses to acknowledge it. (see D&C 101).

By 1844, God had given the church enough chances to repent and they would not, so God took Joseph and Hyrum away from them and cursed the church and the saints. ( see D&C 124).

God kept the curse on the saints till 2013. He sent a messenger to the saints to give them an opportunity to repent. Some few did. Some few did acknowledge that we are not in the good graces of our Lord. Most did not and stoned the prophet that God had sent them, just like all those who gone before them.

The pride shown is unreal. The scriptures are so true. They predicted the prideful saints would not repent. They are just like all other previous generations. " We are the children of Abraham" , they say. " So we cannot go astray".

They don't understand that God can make children of Abraham out of the rocks.

Who was sent, I haven't heard of anyone. I haven't heard of anyone stoned. Do you know of anyone that was a rock? What tribe are they from?

[clarkkent14]

Who was sent, I haven't heard of anyone. I haven't heard of anyone stoned. Do you know of anyone that was a rock? What tribe are they from?

PETER: Satan, we command you to depart.

LUCIFER: By what authority?

And when he was come into the temple, the chief priests and the elders of the people came unto him as he was teaching, and said, By what authority doest thou these things? and who gave thee this authority?

Many of the people therefore, when they heard this saying, said, Of a truth this is the Prophet. Others said, This is the Christ. But some said, Shall Christ come out of Galilee? Hath not the scripture said, That Christ cometh of the seed of David, and out of the town of Bethlehem, where David was? So there was a division among the people because of him.

And when the sabbath day was come, he began to teach in the synagogue: and many hearing him were astonished, saying, From whence hath this man these things? and what wisdom is this which is given unto him, that even such mighty works are wrought by his hands? Is not this the carpenter, the son of Mary, the brother of James, and Joses, and of Juda, and Simon? and are not his sisters here with us? And they were offended at him.

“The world always mistook false prophets for true ones, and those that were sent of God, they considered to be false prophets and hence they killed, stoned, punished and imprisoned the true prophets, and these had to hide themselves “in deserts and dens, and caves of the earth,” and though the most honorable men of the earth, they banished them from their society as vagabonds, whilst they cherished, honored and supported knaves, vagabonds, hypocrites, impostors, and the basest of men.”

[Arenera]

So you can't answer the questions i posed? This is what it means to be a remnant?

[e-eye2.0]

The Lord may have been well pleased with the church in 1831 but by September 1832, the Lord put the church under condemnation. Things went down hill from there. If you want to accept the revelations of God through the prophet Joseph Smith, then accept them all. Don't just accept the ones that flatter the church.

We can see that by 1833, the Lord punished the saints quite severely for their transgressions. He used the Missouri mobs to persecute the saints but they refused to accept it was the hand of the Lord punishing them. The church still refuses to acknowledge it. (see D&C 101).

By 1844, God had given the church enough chances to repent and they would not, so God took Joseph and Hyrum away from them and cursed the church and the saints. ( see D&C 124).

God kept the curse on the saints till 2013. He sent a messenger to the saints to give them an opportunity to repent. Some few did. Some few did acknowledge that we are not in the good graces of our Lord. Most did not and stoned the prophet that God had sent them, just like all those who gone before them.

The pride shown is unreal. The scriptures are so true. They predicted the prideful saints would not repent. They are just like all other previous generations. " We are the children of Abraham" , they say. " So we cannot go astray".

They don't understand that God can make children of Abraham out of the rocks.

Sooo... do the remnant believe Denver Snuffer was sent to call the church to repentance? Also, just curious as to how he did this, was it him asking not to be excommunicated that was the call to repentance or some other occasion or time?

[underdog]

The Lord may have been well pleased with the church in 1831 but by September 1832, the Lord put the church under condemnation. Things went down hill from there. If you want to accept the revelations of God through the prophet Joseph Smith, then accept them all. Don't just accept the ones that flatter the church.

We can see that by 1833, the Lord punished the saints quite severely for their transgressions. He used the Missouri mobs to persecute the saints but they refused to accept it was the hand of the Lord punishing them. The church still refuses to acknowledge it. (see D&C 101).

By 1844, God had given the church enough chances to repent and they would not, so God took Joseph and Hyrum away from them and cursed the church and the saints. ( see D&C 124).

God kept the curse on the saints till 2013. He sent a messenger to the saints to give them an opportunity to repent. Some few did. Some few did acknowledge that we are not in the good graces of our Lord. Most did not and stoned the prophet that God had sent them, just like all those who gone before them.

The pride shown is unreal. The scriptures are so true. They predicted the prideful saints would not repent. They are just like all other previous generations. " We are the children of Abraham" , they say. " So we cannot go astray".

They don't understand that God can make children of Abraham out of the rocks.

Sooo... do the remnant believe Denver Snuffer was sent to call the church to repentance? Also, just curious as to how he did this, was it him asking not to be excommunicated that was the call to repentance or some other occasion or time?

How, you ask?

One way...
The Lord commanded him to read Ezekiel 33-34 without commentary.

I think it was the latter part of chapter 33 and all of 34.

I'll look it up. But go ahead and read Ezekiel's prophecy and of course apply it to the Church.

Here's the quote:

Now I need to read you something. This is Ezekiel 33:25-34:31:

"Wherefore say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Ye eat with the blood, and lift up your eyes toward your idols, and shed blood: and shall ye possess the land? Ye stand upon your sword, ye work abomination, and ye defile every one his neighbour's wife: and shall ye possess the land? Say thou thus unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; As I live, surely they that are in the wastes shall fall by the sword, and him that is in the open field will I give to the beasts to be devoured, and they that be in the forts and in the caves shall die of the pestilence. For I will lay the land most desolate, and the pomp of her strength shall cease; and the mountains of Israel shall be desolate, that none shall pass through. Then shall they know that I am the LORD, when I have laid the land most desolate because of all their abominations which they have committed. Also, thou son of man, the children of thy people still are talking against thee by the walls and in the doors of the houses, and speak one to another, every one to his brother, saying, Come, I pray you, and hear what is the word that cometh forth from the LORD. And they come unto thee as the people cometh, and they sit before thee as my people, and they hear thy words, but they will not do them: for with their mouth they shew much love, but their heart goeth after their covetousness. And, lo, thou art unto them as a very lovely song of one that hath a pleasant voice, and can play well on an instrument: for they hear thy words, but they do them not.

And when this cometh to pass, (lo, it will come,) then shall they know that a prophet hath been among them. AND the word of the LORD came unto me, saying, Son of man, prophesy against the shepherds of Israel, prophesy, and say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD unto the shepherds; Woe be to the shepherds of Israel that do feed themselves! should not the shepherds feed the flocks? Ye eat the fat, and ye clothe you with the wool, ye kill them that are fed: but ye feed not the flock. The diseased have ye not strengthened, neither have ye healed that which was sick, neither have ye bound up that which was broken, neither have ye brought again that which was driven away, neither have ye sought that which was lost; but with force and with cruelty have ye ruled them. And they were scattered, because there is no shepherd: and they became meat to all the beasts of the field, when they were scattered. My sheep wandered through all the mountains, and upon every high hill: yea, my flock was scattered upon all the face of the earth, and none did search or seek after them. Therefore, ye shepherds, hear the word of the LORD; As I live, saith the Lord GOD, surely because my flock became a prey, and my flock became meat to every beast of the field, because there was no shepherd, neither did my shepherds search for my flock, but the shepherds fed themselves, and fed not my flock; Therefore, O ye shepherds, hear the word of the LORD; Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I am against the shepherds; and I will require my flock at their hand, and cause them to cease from feeding the flock; neither shall the shepherds feed themselves anymore; for I will deliver my flock from their mouth, that they may not be meat for them. For thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I, even I, will both search my sheep, and seek them out. As a shepherd seeketh out his flock in the day that he is among his sheep that are scattered; so will I seek out my sheep, and will deliver them out of all places where they have been scattered in the cloudy and dark day. And I will bring them out from the people, and gather them from the countries, and will bring them to their own land, and feed them upon the mountains of Israel by the rivers, and in all the inhabited places of the country. I will feed them in a good pasture, and upon the high mountains of Israel shall their fold be: there shall they lie in a good fold, and in a fat pasture shall they feed upon the mountains of Israel. I will feed my flock, and I will cause them to lie down, saith the Lord GOD.I will seek that which was lost, and bring again that which was driven away, and will bind up that which was broken, and will strengthen that which was sick: but I will destroy the fat and the strong; I will feed them with judgment. And as for you, O my flock, thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I judge between cattle and cattle, between the rams and the he goats. Seemeth it a small thing unto you to have eaten up the good pasture, but ye must tread down with your feet the residue of your pastures? and to have drunk of the deep waters, but ye must foul the residue with your feet?

And as for my flock, they eat that which ye have trodden with your feet; and they drink that which ye have fouled with your feet. Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD unto them; Behold, I, even I, will judge between the fat cattle and between the lean cattle. Because ye have thrust with side and with shoulder, and pushed all the diseased with your horns, till ye have scattered them abroad; Therefore will I save my flock, and they shall no more be a prey; and I will judge between cattle and cattle. And I will set up one shepherd over them, and he shall feed them, even my servant David; he shall feed them, and he shall be their shepherd. And I the LORD will be their God, and my servant David a prince among them; I the LORD have spoken it. And I will make with them a covenant of peace, and will cause the evil beasts to cease out of the land: and they shall dwell safely in the wilderness, and sleep in the woods. And I will make them and the places round about my hill a blessing; and I will cause the shower to come down in his season; there shall be showers of blessing. And the tree of the field shall yield her fruit, and the earth shall yield her increase, and they shall be safe in their land, and shall know that I am the LORD, when I have broken the bands of their yoke, and delivered them out of the hand of those that served themselves of them. And they shall no more be a prey to the heathen, neither shall the beast of the land devour them; but they shall dwell safely, and none shall make them afraid. And I will raise up for them a plant of renown, and they shall be no more consumed with hunger in the land, neither bear the shame of the heathen any more. Thus shall they know that I the LORD their God am with them, and that they, even the house of Israel, are my people, saith the Lord GOD. And ye my flock, the flock of my pasture, are men, and I am your God, saith the Lord GOD."

I was required to read that, but I am not required, and will not comment. You wouldn‟t want to hear my comments anyway. But you should apply these verses to us today.

[Arenera]

Who was sent, I haven't heard of anyone. I haven't heard of anyone stoned. Do you know of anyone that was a rock? What tribe are they from?

PETER: Satan, we command you to depart.

LUCIFER: By what authority?

And when he was come into the temple, the chief priests and the elders of the people came unto him as he was teaching, and said, By what authority doest thou these things? and who gave thee this authority?

Many of the people therefore, when they heard this saying, said, Of a truth this is the Prophet. Others said, This is the Christ. But some said, Shall Christ come out of Galilee? Hath not the scripture said, That Christ cometh of the seed of David, and out of the town of Bethlehem, where David was? So there was a division among the people because of him.

And when the sabbath day was come, he began to teach in the synagogue: and many hearing him were astonished, saying, From whence hath this man these things? and what wisdom is this which is given unto him, that even such mighty works are wrought by his hands? Is not this the carpenter, the son of Mary, the brother of James, and Joses, and of Juda, and Simon? and are not his sisters here with us? And they were offended at him.

“The world always mistook false prophets for true ones, and those that were sent of God, they considered to be false prophets and hence they killed, stoned, punished and imprisoned the true prophets, and these had to hide themselves “in deserts and dens, and caves of the earth,” and though the most honorable men of the earth, they banished them from their society as vagabonds, whilst they cherished, honored and supported knaves, vagabonds, hypocrites, impostors, and the basest of men.”

More fruit from the remnants. You guys are losing it, big time. Have you no remnant site to keep your interest?

[Seek the Truth]

The Lord may have been well pleased with the church in 1831 but by September 1832, the Lord put the church under condemnation. Things went down hill from there. If you want to accept the revelations of God through the prophet Joseph Smith, then accept them all. Don't just accept the ones that flatter the church.

We can see that by 1833, the Lord punished the saints quite severely for their transgressions. He used the Missouri mobs to persecute the saints but they refused to accept it was the hand of the Lord punishing them. The church still refuses to acknowledge it. (see D&C 101).

By 1844, God had given the church enough chances to repent and they would not, so God took Joseph and Hyrum away from them and cursed the church and the saints. ( see D&C 124).

God kept the curse on the saints till 2013. He sent a messenger to the saints to give them an opportunity to repent. Some few did. Some few did acknowledge that we are not in the good graces of our Lord. Most did not and stoned the prophet that God had sent them, just like all those who gone before them.

The pride shown is unreal. The scriptures are so true. They predicted the prideful saints would not repent. They are just like all other previous generations. " We are the children of Abraham" , they say. " So we cannot go astray".

They don't understand that God can make children of Abraham out of the rocks.

What is special about 2013. The scriptures say what you are claiming will never happen. See my sig and similar statements throughout scripture and the Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith. You literally are rejecting scripture and Joseph Smith.

[Seek the Truth]

How, you ask?

One way...
The Lord commanded him to read Ezekiel 33-34 without commentary.

I think it was the latter part of chapter 33 and all of 34.

I'll look it up. But go ahead and read Ezekiel's prophecy and of course apply it to the Church.

Here's the quote:

This is easily the most ignorant interpretation of scripture I've ever seen on this forum.

[Thomas]

The Lord may have been well pleased with the church in 1831 but by September 1832, the Lord put the church under condemnation. Things went down hill from there. If you want to accept the revelations of God through the prophet Joseph Smith, then accept them all. Don't just accept the ones that flatter the church.

We can see that by 1833, the Lord punished the saints quite severely for their transgressions. He used the Missouri mobs to persecute the saints but they refused to accept it was the hand of the Lord punishing them. The church still refuses to acknowledge it. (see D&C 101).

By 1844, God had given the church enough chances to repent and they would not, so God took Joseph and Hyrum away from them and cursed the church and the saints. ( see D&C 124).

God kept the curse on the saints till 2013. He sent a messenger to the saints to give them an opportunity to repent. Some few did. Some few did acknowledge that we are not in the good graces of our Lord. Most did not and stoned the prophet that God had sent them, just like all those who gone before them.

The pride shown is unreal. The scriptures are so true. They predicted the prideful saints would not repent. They are just like all other previous generations. " We are the children of Abraham" , they say. " So we cannot go astray".

They don't understand that God can make children of Abraham out of the rocks.

What is special about 2013. The scriptures say what you are claiming will never happen. See my sig and similar statements throughout scripture and the Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith. You literally are rejecting scripture and Joseph Smith.

Yes, you have already told me. You are the children of Abraham and cannot go astray.

[Thomas]

34 Why is it that ye receive not the preaching of him whom God hath sent? If ye receive not this in your hearts, ye receive not me; and if ye receive not me, ye receive not him of whom I am sent to bear record; and for your sins ye have no cloak.

35 Repent, therefore, and bring forth fruits meet for repentance;

36 And think not to say within yourselves, We are the children of Abraham, and we only have power to bring seed unto our father Abraham; for I say unto you that God is able of these stones to raise up children into Abraham.

The Jews thought they could not go astray because of the promise God made to Abraham. God would have to uphold them or be a liar. So do the LDS cling to the misinterpreted statements about priesthood and the Kingdom of God ( which is not the church but a government).

[GrandMasterB]

And also don't forget that for every "prophet " that God sends there are plenty of false prophets or fakers that Satan sends to oppose the true ones....
So my stand is this specifically:
Brigham Young was called By Jesus Christ himself to the apostleship and to the presiding high priesthood and to the leadership of the church and Kingdom of God to all the earth.
And Denver Snuffer is opposed to Brigham Young, and yet claims to have seen Jesus Christ. Well I have no doubt in my mind that Denver has seen somebody "miraculously speaking" but as to actually being Jesus Christ, sorry, nothing but an immitation, the devil in disguise, the devil appearing as an angel of light, to deceive the very elect.
It reminds me of Mr. Korihor:

But behold, the devil hath deceived me; for he appeared unto me in the form of an angel, and said unto me: Go and reclaim this people, for they have all gone astray after an unknown God. And he said unto me: There is no God; yea, and he taught me that which I should say. And I have taught his words; and I taught them because they were pleasing unto the carnal mind; and I taught them, even until I had much success, insomuch that I verily believed that they were true; and for this cause I withstood the truth, even until I have brought this great curse upon me.

Denver is a " vain aspirant" a cunning lawyer that seemingly portrays himself as not seeking for power, but I notice that he has claimed revelation telling him that his name is " David" setting the stage for another one ( of the many hundreds already) claimants to being " the One Mighty and Strong" or the "Davidical Servant".
The minute you start " aspiring" is the minute Satan gains power over you, that is, if you do not repent.
"He is fallen, he is fallen, even a son of the morning". Do not think for a moment you or any of us are more intelligent then that " son of the morning" . Satan has something for everybody and will "deceive the very elect if it were possible", and I would venture to say that the best success he has to deceive us is when men " aspire" to greatness, to position, to authority, to power etc.

Now back to Brigham Young and Denver. Brigham Young was and still is God's anointed, and for Denver to summarily dismiss Brigham should be a "key whereby you may not be deceived" . And that my friends is good enough for me. Any so-called claimant to light that knocks God's anointed hath not God's spirit. Although may have had it but lost it.
That is my summary

Amen and Amen!!!

[GrandMasterB]

Major prophesy was uttered, IMHO.

For interested people who missed it, the highlights were as follows:

• He spent time on discussing what it means to "be sent."

• He taught the doctrine of Christ.

• Invited all to be baptized.

• Said read Matthew 24, which is about the signs immediately preceding the Second Coming.

• Said the signs have begun.

• Referred to verse 34 saying ALL the signs will be fulfilled in THIS generation. Big time prophesy.

• Said to be of good cheer, that prophets will be among you. As in PLURALITY of prophets.

• Said that if you're going to listen to a preacher who says he has a message from God, you should only listen to one who has been sent.

• He bore testimony at the end that he knows Christ lives, for he has seen Him, as Paul saw Him.

• He compared himself to Noah.

• Said the end times will be like Noah's day. That's the scary part. But said the good news is that there will be prophets sent, just as Noah was sent.

i believe the scriptures. I believe what it says in Mormon chapter 8 about every church being polluted. I believe that mean the lds church as well.

I also believe it means the church of Denver snuffer.

Don't put your trust in men.

Take a big example from nephi seeking the tree of life. Who was bid by a man dressed in white to come follow me. And he did. And was lead into the Wilderness. Tell once again he repeated and turned to the lord.

The path to Becoming like our Heavenly Father is one that is filled with the precepts of men like Denver and other men.

Talk to god yourself if you wanna know about him and want to be like him.

By latching on to the teaching of a man your only setting yourself up to be lead into the wilderness.

I testify that he will answer if you seek him and listen. Truly listen.

Awesome advice. Couldn't agree more.

And yes, if Denver had established a church it would already be corrupted. But he hasn't and won't. So he says.

What he has established is a cult.

[GrandMasterB]

1) What did God command to be done on April 6, 1830? God commanded something to be organized. What was that something? We know it wasn't a corporation sole that was commanded to be established.
2) Whatever that something was, what was its purpose?
3) How long was that something that was organized to serve its purpose?
4) Could it be that that something served its purpose? Perhaps the organization that Joseph started was utilized for a wise purpose by God?
5) It was the will of Christ that He personally call 12 apostles in His day. What lesson do we learn from Judas' apostasy about God's will and apostles whom He calls?

And it still should be readily apparent and acknowledged by ALL intelligent and honest people that quite obviously any organization or institution (and ESPECIALLY large ones or ones that have members of the holy priesthood) is the target for corruption by the Adversary. In the Temple, what does Satan boldly declare? That with gold and silver he will buy up such organizations and institutions which would include false priests that oppress, with the ultimately goal to reign with blood and horror upon this earth.

Thank you.

I think the church as a "corporation" argument shows true naivety for anyone who uses it, truly they have no experience or wisdom in these areas. Have you not read the D&C or church history and all of the financial decisions the Lord was involved in (or not involved in for that matter) and yet the work moved on (and moves on). Maybe watching the denver movement will help you understand all of this. What do you do when the tithing, fast offerings, and donations start pouring in? How is it to be distributed to those that need help, how do you sustain the growth of the church and temples, etc? How is it to be Accounted for? Protected? Classified? Everyone is a great Monday Morning quarterback with the church finances. Everyone wants to call plays left and right on the sidelines but the reality is if you, or Denver, or anyone that is put in the financial game given all the moving parts will get pounced and walk away saying "Oh,that is why they structure it like that." Experience will be the great teacher here I just hope your education doesn't end up costing you a fortune or worse before you recognize the wisdom, truth, and authority that exists in the true church.

I appreciate your concern. I anticipate participating in the BUILDING of the Temple. I will donate money too. It would be an honor. Think Kirtland. With me dispensing money myself to the poor and needy, as the Spirit dictates, I think the chances of getting "cost a fortune" are minimized.

Is it naive to believe that billions upon billions of dollars, or even a paltry hundreds of thousands of dollars being put into the hands of one man (and his close associates who ingratiate themselves to him) would not potentially have the effect of corrupting that man? You I assume would say it would never have that effect on a man, who is the president of the Church? Please correct if I'm wrong.

I say it's better to use a decentralized model, where YOU prayerfully decide to whom of the poor and needy your (the Lord's money) should go to. No need for a Monday Night QB in this case, because YOU are the actual QB. How's corruption going to sneak into this set-up?

Also, which side is more naive? To believe that a corporation sole which has (unethically) set up completely non transparent financial disclosure rules (just like the Federal Reserve System) would not be tempted to do hanky panky with billions of dollars (which there is ZERO accountability to the people for), or to believe that the absence of an institution/ corporation (in favor of random fellowships or just individuals) would be less prone to corruption?

Oh kind of like during the early church when the apostles had everyone in the church consecrate all they had and bring it to the apostles. There were some who held back and what happened to them? Oh yeah they were struck dead by God as an example. I guess the early apostles were corrupt too, right? Do you even read the scriptures?

[simpleton]

When does it end?..... the never ending story... aspiring men come--- and aspiring men go... there is no end to them. When is it that us men will wake up and become men, MEN i tell you , not a bunch of power hungry wannabes. ( or gay either) I have had a life full of aspiring men. And yes I do understand the desire to be somebody and to be something. But those desires , we as men , or, if we want to truly be real men of the most High God , we men have to learn to crush those desires and our egos and become like a little child. We have to learn to be clay in the hands of the Potter. The one and only true Potter. but in the process of being turned on the Potters wheel make sure you do not become refractory. For after a time if you insist upon being refractory The Great Potter will remove you from the wheel and throw you back into the premix, regrind you up with other refractory individuals and some good material also and then later pull out the new mix and make you into a vessel of honor. Most likely with some of your original matter but with other new matter or intelligence mixed in....(learned that from good ol Heber c.k.)
Another thing I find interesting is Hollywood's mad obsession with all this hero crap. "superheroes" . ( and for that matter , not just hollywood, but also us, the masses) what is the end game? And speaking of games, yes , what is the end game with the games? Computer games , all professional sports games, i would suppose most if not all games . To me ( and yes I am guilty of it all) it is all a waste of time, precious time... countless hours of time wasted worshiping the Roman gods. Again what is the end game???? IMHO it is all a diversion, millions of countless diversions (and there seems to be no end to them) from the adversary himself to steal our crowns , to get us to turn our attention away from the One who truly is mighty to save. We are children of the most High God , and what does that make us ? Princes and princess if you will, but, we are in this school here in the flesh to learn to master the flesh with our spirit and to be, nobodys, nothing's, nadas, zilchs even less than tbe dust of the earth. And we ARE less than the dust of the earth, why? because the earth is obedient and mankind is rebellious. But, if we do not learn to take a backseat , back into the clay mix we go ...
That was some rambling off topic I suppose , so back to the subject at hand, and this I find interesting from JS:

IMG-20170928-WA0001001.jpg (243.89 KiB) Viewed 744 times

Notice the prediction : " THERE WILL BE MANY WHO WILL COME IN UNDER YOUR MINISTERY, BUT BECAUSE OF THEIR MUCH LEARNING THEY WILL SEEK FOR HIGH POSITIONS AND TO RAISE THEMSELVES ABOVE YOU" ...
And who is "you" ? very simple, those that are faithful to the Gospel of Jesus Christ to the bitter end, and more especially those faithful ones back in Joseph's day and their children and their children's children... For those of the Nauvoo Legion that were faithful at the risk if their lives , WILL FOREVER HAVE AN INHERITANCE IN ZION. and their children and their children's children forever, because of the covenant, or if you will because of the sacrifices the fathers made.....
That promise is also available to us, IF WE ARE FAITHFUL AND ENDURE TO THE END AND NOT WASTE THE DAYS OF OUR PROBATION... ( thats where the games , movies etc come in) sorry for shouting, but such are the feelings of my soul..
Distractions are a must and a necessary part of our probation to experience. But games are for children , and real men should be wearing out their lives trying to save some souls...
Mr Sniffer has alot of truth. I would even venture to say He might have mostly truth ... But so does the adversary, and what is the adversary's end game? to steal your crown and make you miserable like him. So whatever it takes to turn you from the truth he is actively engaged it it 24/7/365... never sleeping... And if it takes ( for starters) 99.99999999999999999999 percent truth and sneak in that .0000000000000000001 camouflaged percent lie , and if you have the least bit of self importance as in self ego , "look at me" then he catches you ever so slightly, ever so slowly and craftly and very carefully leads you down to hell all the time while you are thinking how righteous you are...
Write it down, burn it into your memory . Ego , selfishness , pride, school pride, team pride, any kind of pride period is from hell itself.. I am sure that there will be protestations, but it mattereth not, those are some of the lessons I have learned in life, but just because they are lessons learned , I have one hell of a time applying it to this wretched carnal sensual devilish flesh of mine... and I mostly lose...mostly?? probably mostly all of the time... probably all of the time...
The battling I see between individuals claiming " spirit told me this " spirit told me that " " my spirit kicks your spirits butt" I know more than you because the spirit told me ... etc etc etc... sorry but "if" (and that is a very big IF) you had the spirit , you lost it right then and there as the "Spirit" is very touchy to man and his cursed ego ...
Now let me reiterate again for the record or rather bare record : The COJCOLDS is the only true organized church upon the face of planet earth, and inspite of the condition it is in today as seen by various different people from one end of the spectrum to the other, it nevertheless is Jesus Christ's church and it will stay that way as that is the promise from God in various places.. It is built upon the rock and it's foundation is sure because it's maker is the Holy One if Isreal. And I am sorry Mr snuffer et-al, no amount if snuffering will remove it out of its place, As the Maker or Builder is again the Holy One of Isreal...
Now do the above scriptures ( say for example Ezekiel 33-34) apply to the church? absolutely, as, all scripture must apply to us and or the church and or Isreal. If the shoe fits wear it. But leaders come and leaders go and corruptions come in through all kinds of different doors. But the promise is that the Church and Kingdom (2 separate ororganizations, or if you will 2 separate distinct organizations) will not be left to another people... And yes I do believe in a Davidical King, One Mighty and Strong etc. that SETS THE HOUSE OF GOD IN ORDER, but take notice, ( especially snuffer and other wannabees) This Servant of God sets the house of God in order , but HE DOES NOT START ANOTHER HOUSE. So there is another key whereby you may not be deceived. If a supposed servant comes along claiming light for the masses or claiming light for the children of God and wants to build upon a new foundation or rather build a new foundation and pitch out the existing "sure" foundation , know ye then and there that he is deceived.

Isaiah 8:20 (KJV)

20 To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them...
Another very important key above...God is never changing and His gospel never changes. And that is no matter how much " lawyering" you can muster up Mr snuffer ... Another funny thing is this " going to Jesus Christ direct and bypassing the Lord's anointed... Very dangerous to your salvation in my opinion. And how may you ask? Because Jesus Christ has his anointed representatives upon the earth and don't even dream of bypassing them as if you do not honor his anointed ones, Jesus Will absolutely not honor you. But the claim is and is used by some on this forum and elswhere , Oh ive seen Jesus" and this is my story " so shut up and listen because Jesus talked to me"... etc etc etc....
... maybe jesus with a little j.. but not the real one.. as again, his younger or older rebellious brother knows how to imitate the true Jesus so well that inless yoi have the spirit of discernment and have the utmost humility and have crushed every ounce of your pride and ego you will ( and emphasison on "will") be deceived...
May God bless you / us all ... good night...uh morning

[skmo]

And in equally important news, the hildabeast will be in Toronto, Canada tonight signing copies of her new book, "Who Else Can I Blame?" in hopes that sales figures might get into triple digits.

[Chris]

Live Stream

In case you missed the ad in the LA Times and couldn't make it.

You have lost your way. How can you fall for this stuff. You obviously know nothing about Joseph Smith and His prophecies about the destinies of this church. Not some apostate Snuffer. Mormon 8: 33

[underdog]

When does it end?..... the never ending story... aspiring men come--- and aspiring men go... there is no end to them. When is it that us men will wake up and become men, MEN i tell you , not a bunch of power hungry wannabes. ( or gay either) I have had a life full of aspiring men. And yes I do understand the desire to be somebody and to be something. But those desires , we as men , or, if we want to truly be real men of the most High God , we men have to learn to crush those desires and our egos and become like a little child. We have to learn to be clay in the hands of the Potter. The one and only true Potter. but in the process of being turned on the Potters wheel make sure you do not become refractory. For after a time if you insist upon being refractory The Great Potter will remove you from the wheel and throw you back into the premix, regrind you up with other refractory individuals and some good material also and then later pull out the new mix and make you into a vessel of honor. Most likely with some of your original matter but with other new matter or intelligence mixed in....(learned that from good ol Heber c.k.)
Another thing I find interesting is Hollywood's mad obsession with all this hero crap. "superheroes" . ( and for that matter , not just hollywood, but also us, the masses) what is the end game? And speaking of games, yes , what is the end game with the games? Computer games , all professional sports games, i would suppose most if not all games . To me ( and yes I am guilty of it all) it is all a waste of time, precious time... countless hours of time wasted worshiping the Roman gods. Again what is the end game???? IMHO it is all a diversion, millions of countless diversions (and there seems to be no end to them) from the adversary himself to steal our crowns , to get us to turn our attention away from the One who truly is mighty to save. We are children of the most High God , and what does that make us ? Princes and princess if you will, but, we are in this school here in the flesh to learn to master the flesh with our spirit and to be, nobodys, nothing's, nadas, zilchs even less than tbe dust of the earth. And we ARE less than the dust of the earth, why? because the earth is obedient and mankind is rebellious. But, if we do not learn to take a backseat , back into the clay mix we go ...
That was some rambling off topic I suppose , so back to the subject at hand, and this I find interesting from JS:IMG-20170928-WA0001001.jpg

Notice the prediction : " THERE WILL BE MANY WHO WILL COME IN UNDER YOUR MINISTERY, BUT BECAUSE OF THEIR MUCH LEARNING THEY WILL SEEK FOR HIGH POSITIONS AND TO RAISE THEMSELVES ABOVE YOU" ...
And who is "you" ? very simple, those that are faithful to the Gospel of Jesus Christ to the bitter end, and more especially those faithful ones back in Joseph's day and their children and their children's children... For those of the Nauvoo Legion that were faithful at the risk if their lives , WILL FOREVER HAVE AN INHERITANCE IN ZION. and their children and their children's children forever, because of the covenant, or if you will because of the sacrifices the fathers made.....
That promise is also available to us, IF WE ARE FAITHFUL AND ENDURE TO THE END AND NOT WASTE THE DAYS OF OUR PROBATION... ( thats where the games , movies etc come in) sorry for shouting, but such are the feelings of my soul..
Distractions are a must and a necessary part of our probation to experience. But games are for children , and real men should be wearing out their lives trying to save some souls...
Mr Sniffer has alot of truth. I would even venture to say He might have mostly truth ... But so does the adversary, and what is the adversary's end game? to steal your crown and make you miserable like him. So whatever it takes to turn you from the truth he is actively engaged it it 24/7/365... never sleeping... And if it takes ( for starters) 99.99999999999999999999 percent truth and sneak in that .0000000000000000001 camouflaged percent lie , and if you have the least bit of self importance as in self ego , "look at me" then he catches you ever so slightly, ever so slowly and craftly and very carefully leads you down to hell all the time while you are thinking how righteous you are...
Write it down, burn it into your memory . Ego , selfishness , pride, school pride, team pride, any kind of pride period is from hell itself.. I am sure that there will be protestations, but it mattereth not, those are some of the lessons I have learned in life, but just because they are lessons learned , I have one hell of a time applying it to this wretched carnal sensual devilish flesh of mine... and I mostly lose...mostly?? probably mostly all of the time... probably all of the time...
The battling I see between individuals claiming " spirit told me this " spirit told me that " " my spirit kicks your spirits butt" I know more than you because the spirit told me ... etc etc etc... sorry but "if" (and that is a very big IF) you had the spirit , you lost it right then and there as the "Spirit" is very touchy to man and his cursed ego ...
Now let me reiterate again for the record or rather bare record : The COJCOLDS is the only true organized church upon the face of planet earth, and inspite of the condition it is in today as seen by various different people from one end of the spectrum to the other, it nevertheless is Jesus Christ's church and it will stay that way as that is the promise from God in various places.. It is built upon the rock and it's foundation is sure because it's maker is the Holy One if Isreal. And I am sorry Mr snuffer et-al, no amount if snuffering will remove it out of its place, As the Maker or Builder is again the Holy One of Isreal...
Now do the above scriptures ( say for example Ezekiel 33-34) apply to the church? absolutely, as, all scripture must apply to us and or the church and or Isreal. If the shoe fits wear it. But leaders come and leaders go and corruptions come in through all kinds of different doors. But the promise is that the Church and Kingdom (2 separate ororganizations, or if you will 2 separate distinct organizations) will not be left to another people... And yes I do believe in a Davidical King, One Mighty and Strong etc. that SETS THE HOUSE OF GOD IN ORDER, but take notice, ( especially snuffer and other wannabees) This Servant of God sets the house of God in order , but HE DOES NOT START ANOTHER HOUSE. So there is another key whereby you may not be deceived. If a supposed servant comes along claiming light for the masses or claiming light for the children of God and wants to build upon a new foundation or rather build a new foundation and pitch out the existing "sure" foundation , know ye then and there that he is deceived.

Isaiah 8:20 (KJV)

20 To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them...
Another very important key above...God is never changing and His gospel never changes. And that is no matter how much " lawyering" you can muster up Mr snuffer ... Another funny thing is this " going to Jesus Christ direct and bypassing the Lord's anointed... Very dangerous to your salvation in my opinion. And how may you ask? Because Jesus Christ has his anointed representatives upon the earth and don't even dream of bypassing them as if you do not honor his anointed ones, Jesus Will absolutely not honor you. But the claim is and is used by some on this forum and elswhere , Oh ive seen Jesus" and this is my story " so shut up and listen because Jesus talked to me"... etc etc etc....
... maybe jesus with a little j.. but not the real one.. as again, his younger or older rebellious brother knows how to imitate the true Jesus so well that inless yoi have the spirit of discernment and have the utmost humility and have crushed every ounce of your pride and ego you will ( and emphasison on "will") be deceived...
May God bless you / us all ... good night...uh morning

Simpleton,

I enjoyed reading your comment above. It was filled with much truth and things I didn't know about, like Joseph's last public address.

I have read excerpts from that talk but it's largely been absent from anything I've read at Church. Through the years, I confess, almost all of my knowledge of Church history or church quotes have come through the approved channels of the Church.

So with interest, I read his last public address. One quick question: why do you think this address doesn't appear anywhere on official Church websites? I spent some time searching and couldn't find it on lds.org, nor any Church website. Why do you think that is? It's as if it's been intentionally OMITTED. Why would this talk be censored? Why would it be blacked out, just like his Last Vision? Here are some quotes from this last public address:

You shall be called the First Elders of the Church and your mission will be to the nations of the earth. You will gather many people into the vastness of the Rocky Mountains, which will be the center for the gathering of our people, and you will be faithful because you have been true.

Could this statement (prophecy) be in "conflict" with the center of Zion to be in Independence, MO?

There will be many that come in under your ministry, but because of their much learning they will seek for high positions and seek to raise themselves in eminence above you.

In the Church there is nothing but inequality. That's what Joseph is referring to here. In today's Church, the apostles are at the top of the pyramid, when according to DC 107 they are EQUAL in authority with the First Presidency, the 70, and every stake high council! Joseph set up a Church with checks and balances. That has been dismantled purposefully. In the Church today, it's all about stature, title, keys, position, and respecting that position/ mantle/ title. I could share so many illustrative personal stories. All TBM's will easily recognize the great attention the Church constantly gives to creating an environment and atmosphere where everybody in attendance (of a given meeting) knows who's the "top dog." Who takes sacrament first, as one small but significant example. We address people by their titles, another very significant example. Again, we ALL know this to be true -- that INEQUALITY is hammered in our minds -- because we see this principle at work in every meeting. The latest in-your-face manifestation is that RS and Priesthood are being required to study and teach the words spoken in General Conference. It's all about "high positions". Joseph accurately predicted the slide of the Church into priestcraft. He's describing priestcraft in the above quote, and inequality. One of the hallmarks of Denver's preaching, is that he emphasis equality. You can see the harmony between Joseph and Denver on this subject. Both were for equality and against inequality.

...I will promise to you my brethren of the Legion, that I will come again to lead you forth. But now I will go to prepare a place for you so that where I am you shall be with me.

What of this promise? He was murdered 4 days later. So I guess he didn't keep his promise? That's what an anti Mormon would claim. "Old Joe false prophesied!" Fyi, DS says that he has met Joseph, been instructed by him, and presumably meets with him regularly, since Joseph does hold the keys of the last dispensation (as I understand it). Denver reveres Joseph. He is Joseph's greatest defender. The Church throws Joseph under the bus as a polygamist and cliche (as far as using position and power to get women), but Denver defends Joseph's honor. Please note that IF Denver isn't lying, then Joseph's promise is being fulfilled today.

Other things you said above:

Mr Sniffer has alot of truth. I would even venture to say He might have mostly truth ...

Good endorsement. I agree. You apostate! Lol.

Now do the above scriptures ( say for example Ezekiel 33-34) apply to the church? absolutely, as, all scripture must apply to us and or the church and or Israel. If the shoe fits wear it. But leaders come and leaders go and corruptions come in through all kinds of different doors.

Your confession is quite remarkable. You sound like a typical Catholic making excuses for their pedophile priests. Yawning, "pedophile and corrupt priests come and go..."

You hang your hat on

But the promise is that the Church and Kingdom (2 separate organizations, or if you will 2 separate distinct organizations) will not be left to another people... And yes I do believe in a Davidical King, One Mighty and Strong etc. that SETS THE HOUSE OF GOD IN ORDER, but take notice, ( especially snuffer and other wannabees) This Servant of God sets the house of God in order , but HE DOES NOT START ANOTHER HOUSE. So there is another key whereby you may not be deceived. If a supposed servant comes along claiming light for the masses or claiming light for the children of God and wants to build upon a new foundation or rather build a new foundation and pitch out the existing "sure" foundation , know ye then and there that he is deceived.

Your interpretation is just that, an interpretation. You could ever so slightly tweak your interpretation so it makes sense to what is actually happening. First, what is the "house of God." You seem to believe it's the Corporation of the President of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Or is it something else? Do you really think God would EVER set that corporate house in order? Perhaps "house of God" is not what you think it is. Just maybe? The sure foundation is Christ. Agreed? A supposed servant would build on Christ, agreed? How does Denver fail in this regard? Again, I think you bear a very strong witness that Denver is a true prophet. You said he teaches "a lot of truth. I would even venture to say He might have mostly truth." If he errs, please advise how and where.

It would be pretty outlandish for Jesus to say at the last day, "You've been deceived" when I am able to show that the teachings I accepted as truth are all in harmony with His own teachings. In other words, the grand key to understanding if you're on the right path or not is whether or not the teachings invite and entice to come unto Christ and believe in Him (Moroni 7). Or do they teach you to deny Christ and follow man (or something not Christ).

In the interest of vetting Snuffer, I humbly and sincerely ask for you or anybody here to bring evidence that what he teaches denies Christ or invites and entices not to believe in Christ. If ALL of his teachings invites and entices to come unto Christ and to believe in Christ, then the safe conclusion, as 2+2=4, is that he is "sent" from God. We must take tradition and opinions and assumptions and baseless premises out of our analysis. We must look at his fruit, his message. That's true for all men who claim or proclaim to be speaking for Jesus Christ.

[Arenera]

You have been giving many examples of Snuffer being false, you only want to profess you own opinion, which is false also.

[Arenera]

From a real apostle, Dieter Uchtdorf:

Dear sisters, dear friends, to begin general conference with a worldwide sisters’ session is significant and wonderful. Just imagine: sisters of all ages, backgrounds, nationalities, and languages united in faith and love for the Lord Jesus Christ.

As we recently met with our beloved prophet, President Thomas S. Monson, he expressed to us how much he loves the Lord. And I know that President Monson is very grateful for your love, your prayers, and your devotion to the Lord.

A long time ago in a distant land lived a family of three sisters.

The first sister was sad. Everything from her nose to her chin and from her skin to her toes seemed not quite good enough to her. When she spoke, her words sometimes came out awkwardly, and people laughed. When someone criticized her or “forgot” to invite her to something, she would blush, walk away, and find a secret spot where she would let out a sad sigh and wonder why life had turned out to be so bleak and cheerless.

The second sister was mad. She thought of herself as very smart, but there was always someone else who scored higher on tests at school. She considered herself funny, fair, fashionable, and fascinating. But always, there seemed to be someone who was funnier, fairer, more fashionable, or more fascinating.

She was never first at anything, and this she could not endure. Life was not supposed to be this way!

Sometimes she lashed out at others, and it seemed that she was always one breath away from being outraged by one thing or another.

Of course, this did not make her any more likable or popular. Sometimes she clenched her teeth, tightened her fists, and thought, “Life is so unfair!”

Then there was the third sister. Unlike her sad and mad sisters, she was—well, glad. And it wasn’t because she was smarter or more beautiful or more capable than her sisters. No, people sometimes avoided or ignored her too. They sometimes made fun of what she was wearing or the things she was saying. They sometimes said mean things about her. But she did not allow any of that to bother her too much.

This sister loved to sing. She didn’t have great pitch, and people laughed about it, but that didn’t stop her. She would say, “I am not going to let other people and their opinions stop me from singing!”

The very fact that she kept singing made her first sister sad and her second sister mad.

Many years passed, and eventually each sister reached the end of her time on earth.

The first sister, who discovered again and again that there was no shortage of disappointments in life, eventually died sad.

The second, who every day found something new to dislike, died mad.

And the third sister, who spent her life singing her song with all her might and a confident smile on her face, died glad.

Of course, life is never so simple, and people are never so one-dimensional as the three sisters in this story. But even extreme examples like these can teach us something about ourselves. If you are like most of us, you may have recognized part of yourself in one, two, or perhaps all three of these sisters. Let us take a closer look at each one.

The Victim

The first sister saw herself as a victim—as someone who was acted upon.1 It seemed like one thing after another kept happening to her that made her miserable. With this approach to life, she was giving others control over how she felt and behaved. When we do this, we are driven about by every wind of opinion—and in this day of ever-present social media, those winds blow at hurricane intensity.

Dear sisters, why should you surrender your happiness to someone, or a group of someones, who cares very little about you or your happiness?

If you find yourself worrying about what other people say about you, may I suggest this antidote: remember who you are. Remember that you are of the royal house of the kingdom of God, daughters of Heavenly Parents, who reign throughout the universe.

You have the spiritual DNA of God. You have unique gifts that originated in your spiritual creation and that were developed during the vast span of your premortal life. You are the child of our merciful and everlasting Father in Heaven, the Lord of Hosts, the One who created the universe, spread the spinning stars across the vast expanse of space, and placed the planets in their appointed orbits.

You are in His hands.

Very good hands.

Loving hands.

Caring hands.

And nothing anyone ever says about you can change that. Their words are meaningless compared to what God has said about you.

You are His precious child.

He loves you.

Even when you stumble, even when you turn away from Him, God loves you. If you are feeling lost, abandoned, or forgotten—fear not. The Good Shepherd will find you. He will lift you upon His shoulders. And He will carry you home.2

My dear sisters, please let these divine truths sink deeply into your hearts. And you will find that there are many reasons not to be sad, for you have an eternal destiny to fulfill.

The beloved Savior of the world gave His life so that you could choose to make that destiny a reality. You have taken upon you His name; you are His disciples. And because of Him, you can clothe yourselves with robes of eternal glory.

The Hater

The second sister was angry at the world. Like her sad sister, she felt that the problems in her life were all caused by someone else. She blamed her family, her friends, her boss and coworkers, the police, the neighbors, Church leaders, current fashion trends, even the intensity of solar flares, and plain bad luck. And she lashed out at all of them.

She didn’t think of herself as a mean person. To the contrary, she felt that she was only sticking up for herself. Everyone else, she believed, was motivated by selfishness, pettiness, and hate. She, on the other hand, was motivated by good intentions—justice, integrity, and love.

Unfortunately, the mad sister’s line of thinking is all too common. This was noted in a recent study that explored conflict between rival groups. As part of the study, researchers interviewed Palestinians and Israelis in the Middle East, and Republicans and Democrats in the United States. They discovered that “each side felt their own group [was] motivated by love more than hate, but when asked why their rival group [was] involved in the conflict, [they] pointed to hate as [the other] group’s motivating factor.”3

In other words, each group thought of themselves as the “good guys”—fair, kind, and truthful. By contrast, they saw their rivals as the “bad guys”—uninformed, dishonest, even evil.

In the year I was born, the world was immersed in a terrible war that brought agonizing grief and consuming sorrow to the world. This war was caused by my own nation—by a group of people who identified certain other groups as evil and encouraged hatred toward them.

They silenced those they did not like. They shamed and demonized them. They considered them inferior—even less than human. Once you degrade a group of people, you are more likely to justify words and acts of violence against them.

I shudder when I think about what happened in 20th-century Germany.

When someone opposes or disagrees with us, it’s tempting to assume that there must be something wrong with them. And from there it’s a small step to attach the worst of motives to their words and actions.

Of course, we must always stand for what is right, and there are times when we must raise our voices for that cause. However, when we do so with anger or hate in our hearts—when we lash out at others to hurt, shame, or silence them—chances are we are not doing so in righteousness.

What did the Savior teach?

“I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;

“That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven.”4

This is the Savior’s way. It is the first step in breaking down the barriers that create so much anger, hatred, division, and violence in the world.

“Yes,” you might say, “I would be willing to love my enemies—if only they were willing to do the same.”

But that doesn’t really matter, does it? We are responsible for our own discipleship, and it has little—if anything—to do with the way others treat us. We obviously hope that they will be understanding and charitable in return, but our love for them is independent of their feelings toward us.

Perhaps our effort to love our enemies will soften their hearts and influence them for good. Perhaps it will not. But that does not change our commitment to follow Jesus Christ.

So, as members of the Church of Jesus Christ, we will love our enemies.

We will overcome anger or hate.

We will fill our hearts with love for all of God’s children.

We will reach out to bless others and minister to them—even those who might “despitefully use [us] and persecute [us].”5

The Authentic Disciple

The third sister represents the authentic disciple of Jesus Christ. She did something that can be extremely hard to do: she trusted God even in the face of ridicule and hardship. Somehow she maintained her faith and hope, despite the scorn and cynicism around her. She lived joyfully not because her circumstances were joyful but because she was joyful.

None of us makes it through life’s journey unopposed. With so many forces trying to draw us away, how do we keep our vision fixed on the glorious happiness promised to the faithful?

I believe the answer can be found in a dream that a prophet had thousands of years ago. The prophet’s name is Lehi, and his dream is recorded in the precious and wonderful Book of Mormon.

In his dream, Lehi saw a vast field, and in it was a wondrous tree, beautiful beyond description. He also saw large groups of people making their way toward the tree. They wanted to taste its glorious fruit. They felt and trusted that it would give them great happiness and abiding peace.

There was a narrow path that led to the tree, and alongside was an iron rod that helped them stay on the path. But there was also a mist of darkness that obscured their vision of both the path and the tree. And perhaps even more dangerous was the sound of loud laughter and ridicule coming from a large and spacious building nearby. Shockingly, the mocking even convinced some people who had reached the tree and tasted the wondrous fruit to begin to feel ashamed and wander away.6

Perhaps they began to doubt that the tree was really as beautiful as they had once thought. Perhaps they began to question the reality of what they had experienced.

Maybe they thought if they turned away from the tree, life would be easier. Maybe they would not be ridiculed or laughed at anymore.

And actually, the people who were scoffing at them looked like people who were quite happy and having a good time. So perhaps if they abandoned the tree, they would be welcomed into the congregation of the great and spacious building and be applauded for their judgment, intelligence, and sophistication.

Stay on the Path

Dear sisters, dear friends, if you find it difficult to hold fast to the iron rod and walk steadfastly toward salvation; if the laughter and ridicule of others who seem so confident cause you to waver; if you are troubled by unanswered questions or doctrines you don’t understand yet; if you feel saddened because of disappointments, I urge you to remember Lehi’s dream.

Stay on the path!

Never let go of the rod of iron—the word of God!

And when anyone tries to make you ashamed for partaking of the love of God, ignore them.

Never forget you are a child of God; rich blessings are in store; if you can learn to do His will, you’ll live with Him once more!7

The promises of praise and acceptance by the world are unreliable, untrue, and unsatisfying. God’s promises are sure, true, and joyful—now and forever.

I invite you to consider religion and faith from a higher perspective. Nothing offered in the great and spacious building can compare with the fruit of living the gospel of Jesus Christ.

Indeed, “eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.”8

I have learned for myself that the path of discipleship in the gospel of Jesus Christ is the way to joy. It is the way to safety and peace. It is the way to truth.

I testify that by the gift and power of the Holy Ghost, you can learn this for yourself.

In the meantime, if the path becomes difficult for you, I hope you will find refuge and strength in our wonderful organizations of the Church: Primary, Young Women, and Relief Society. They are like waypoints on the path, where you can renew your confidence and faith for the journey ahead. They are a safe home, where you can feel a sense of belonging and receive encouragement from your sisters and fellow disciples.

The things you learn in Primary prepare you for the additional truths you learn as young women. The path of discipleship you walk in your Young Women classes leads to the fellowship and sisterhood of Relief Society. With each step along the way, you are given additional opportunities to demonstrate your love for others through acts of faith, compassion, charity, virtue, and service.

Choosing this path of discipleship will lead to untold happiness and fulfillment of your divine nature.

It will not be easy. It will require the very best that you have—all your intelligence, creativity, faith, integrity, strength, determination, and love. But one day you will look back upon your efforts, and oh, how grateful you will be that you remained strong, that you believed, and that you did not depart from the path.

Press On

There may be many things about life that are beyond your control. But in the end, you have the power to choose both your destination and many of your experiences along the way. It is not so much your abilities but your choices that make the difference in life.9

You cannot allow circumstances to make you sad.

You cannot allow them to make you mad.

You can rejoice that you are a daughter of God. You can find joy and happiness in the grace of God and in the love of Jesus Christ.

You can be glad.

I urge you to fill your hearts with gratitude for the abundant and limitless goodness of God. My beloved sisters, you can do this! I pray with all the affection of my soul that you will make the choice to press on toward the tree of life. I pray that you will choose to lift up your voice and make your life a glorious symphony of praise, rejoicing in what the love of God, the wonders of His Church, and the gospel of Jesus Christ can bring to the world.

The song of true discipleship may sound off-key or even a little loud to some. Since the beginning of time, this has been so.

But to our Heavenly Father and to those who love and honor Him, it is a most precious and beautiful song—the sublime and sanctifying song of redeeming love and service to God and fellowmen.10

I leave you my blessing as an Apostle of the Lord that you will find the strength and courage to joyfully thrive as a daughter of God while gladly walking each day on the glorious path of discipleship. In the sacred name of Jesus Christ, amen.

[underdog]

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In case you missed the ad in the LA Times and couldn't make it.

You have lost your way. How can you fall for this stuff. You obviously know nothing about Joseph Smith and His prophecies about the destinies of this church. Not some apostate Snuffer. Mormon 8: 33

Chris:

Here is Mormon 8:33:

O ye wicked and perverse and stiffnecked people, why have ye built up churches unto yourselves to get gain? Why have ye transfigured the holy word of God, that ye might bring damnation upon your souls? Behold, look ye unto the revelations of God; for behold, the time cometh at that day when all these things must be fulfilled.

• "Built up churches to get gain": Denver makes zero money (in fact he has spent a great deal of money). LDS Church rakes in BILLIONS and gives no transparency of financials. Not even local bishops are transparent! Hide not! Work in the light and not darkness. Who is transfiguring the word of God?

• Where in the scriptures does it say you must get a commitment out of a prospective convert (being interviewed for baptism) to pay tithing to a church? Why have ye transfigured the holy word of God to get gain?

• Why are the top leaders getting paid an UNDISCLOSED amount of money? Nephi says, "the laborer in Zion shall labor for Zion; for if they labor for money they shall perish." Contrast that with Alma or King Benjamin who labored with their own hands and took not one red cent/senine in compensation. Why have ye transfigured the holy word of God?

• Year-end tithing settlement is about to come up in your ward. Ever think about WHY the Church instituted this annual accounting? From a financial standpoint, from the perspective of "GETTING GAIN," it makes perfect sense, wouldn't you say? The "take", the financial "haul", from members trying to get current with their contributions lest they lose their temple recommend must be in the hundreds of millions in Nov and Dec of each year. And you quote this verse to attack Denver? Seriously? There are wicked and perverse and stiffnecked people building up churches to get gain. Above is evidence of this with the LDS Church, and you point the finger at one man who is guilty of none of this? Turning things upside down? Who's transfiguring the holy word of God?

I could go on and on about the Church "getting gain," and yet you, Chris, (apparently) ignorantly talk about "falling for this stuff," while being incapable of pointing out what "stuff" is so repugnant to the gospel? Please share what is objectionable.

[Arenera]

Good material from Sharon Eubank:

You might not know this, but President Monson and I are twins. On the very day I was born—in the very hour—in Northern California, the 36-year-old Thomas S. Monson was sustained as the newest Apostle. I love my special, personal link to the prophet of God, President Monson.

The prophets are speaking about women.1 You will hear some of their words in this meeting. For my text I am going back almost 40 years to a remarkable prophecy written by President Spencer W. Kimball. September 1979 was only the second time the women of the global Church had met in their own general meeting. President Kimball had prepared his talk, but when the day of the conference came, he was in the hospital. So instead, he asked his wife, Camilla Eyring Kimball, to read his remarks on his behalf.2

Sister Camilla Kimball speaking at the pulpit
Sister Kimball read the prophet’s words, which emphasized the influence of LDS women on the good women of the world prior to the Second Coming of the Savior. Near the end, there was an electrifying charge to the women of the Church that we have been talking about ever since.

Let me quote a little of what President Kimball said:

“Finally, my dear sisters, may I suggest to you something that has not been said before or at least in quite this way. Much of the major growth that is coming to the Church in the last days will come because many of the good women of the world … will be drawn to the Church in large numbers. This will happen to the degree that the women of the Church reflect righteousness and articulateness in their lives and to the degree that the women of the Church are seen as distinct and different—in happy ways—from the women of the world.

“Among the real heroines in the world who will come into the Church are women who are more concerned with being righteous than with being selfish. These real heroines have true humility, which places a higher value on integrity than on visibility. …

“… It will be … female exemplars of the Church [who] will be a significant force in both the numerical and the spiritual growth of the Church in the last days.”3

What a prophetic statement that is. Just to summarize:

It will be the good relationships of women that will trigger much of the major growth coming to the Church in the years ahead.

The friendships that Relief Society women, young women, and Primary girls build with sincere, faithful, godly women and girls of other faiths and beliefs will be a significant force in how the Church grows in the last days.

President Kimball called these women from other backgrounds “heroines” who will be more concerned with being righteous than selfish, who will show us that integrity is more valuable than visibility.

I have met so many of these good women as I do my work around the world. Their friendships are precious to me. You know them too among your friends and neighbors. They may or may not be members of the Church right now, but we connect in friendship that is very important. Well, how do we play our part? What should we do? President Kimball refers to five things:

The first is to be righteous. Being righteous doesn’t mean being perfect or never making mistakes. It means developing an inner connection with God, repenting of our sins and mistakes, and freely helping others.

Women who have repented change the course of history. I have a friend who was in a car accident when she was young, and from that, she became addicted to pain medication. Later on, her parents divorced. She became pregnant from a brief relationship, and her addictions continued. But one night, she looked at the chaos and mess of her life and thought, “Enough.” She cried out to the Savior Jesus Christ to help her. She said she learned that Jesus Christ was stronger than even her terrible circumstances and that she could rely on His strength as she walked the road of repentance.

By coming back to the Lord and His ways, she changed the course of her history and her little boy’s history and her new husband’s. She is righteous; she has a wide-open heart for others who have made mistakes and want to change. And just like all of us, she isn’t perfect, but she knows how to repent and to keep trying.

The second is to be articulate. Being articulate means to clearly express how you feel about something and why. Earlier this year, there was a post on my Facebook news feed that disparaged Christianity. I read it and I was a little annoyed, but I shrugged it off. But an acquaintance who is not a member of our faith responded with a comment of her own. She wrote: “[This is] the exact opposite of what Jesus stood for—he was … radical [in] his time because he … equalized the world. … He [spoke to] prostitutes, [he ate] with … tax collectors … , befriended powerless women and children … , [and] gave us the story of the Good Samaritan. … It follows that … true Christians would be striving to be the MOST loving people in the world.” When I read that, I thought to myself, “Why didn’t I write that?”

Each of us needs to be better at articulating the reasons for our faith. How do you feel about Jesus Christ? Why do you stay in the Church? Why do you believe the Book of Mormon is scripture? Where do you get your peace? Why does it matter that the prophet has something to say in 2017? How do you know he is a real prophet? Use your voice and your power to articulate what you know and feel—on social media, in quiet conversations with your friends, when you’re chatting with your grandchildren. Tell them why you believe, what it feels like, if you ever doubted, how you got through it, and what Jesus Christ means to you. As the Apostle Peter said, “Be not afraid … ; but sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you.”4

The third is to be different. Let me tell you a story that happened this July on Panama City Beach in Florida.5 Late in the afternoon, Roberta Ursrey saw her two young sons screaming for help from 100 yards (90 m) out into the ocean. They had become caught in a strong current and were being carried out to sea. A nearby couple tried to rescue the boys, but they also got caught in the current. So members of the Ursrey family dove in to rescue the struggling swimmers, and quickly nine people were caught in the rip current.

There were no ropes. There was no lifeguard. The police sent for a rescue boat, but the people had been out in the ocean struggling for 20 minutes, and they were exhausted and their heads were slipping under the water. Among the onlookers on the beach was Jessica Mae Simmons. Her husband had the idea to form a human chain. They shouted at people on the beach to help them, and dozens of people linked arms and marched into the ocean. Jessica wrote, “To see people from different races and genders come into action to help TOTAL strangers [was] absolutely amazing to see!!”6 An 80-person chain stretched toward the swimmers. Look at this picture of that incredible moment.

Swimmers creating a human chain
Everyone on the beach could think only of traditional solutions, and they were paralyzed. But one couple, in a split second, thought of a different solution. Innovation and creation are spiritual gifts. When we keep our covenants, it may make us different from others in our culture and society, but it gives us access to inspiration so we can think of different solutions, different approaches, different applications. We aren’t always going to fit in with the world, but being different in positive ways can be a lifeline to others who are struggling.

The fourth is to be distinct. Distinct means to be recognizably well defined. Let me go back to the story about Jessica Mae Simmons on the beach. Once that human chain was stretching toward the swimmers, she knew she could help. Jessica Mae said, “I can hold my breath … and go around an Olympic pool with ease! [I knew how to get out of a rip current.] I knew I could get [each swimmer] to the human chain.”7 She and her husband grabbed boogie boards and swam down the chain until they and another rescuer reached the swimmers, and then they ferried them one by one back to the chain, who passed them to the safety of the beach. Jessica had a distinct skill: she knew how to swim against a rip current.

The restored gospel is recognizably well defined. But we have to be distinct about how we follow it. Just as Jessica practiced swimming, we need to practice living the gospel before the emergency so that, unafraid, we will be strong enough to help when others are being swept away by the current.

And finally, the fifth is to do one through four in happy ways. Being happy doesn’t mean to slap a plastic smile on your face no matter what is going on. But it does mean keeping the laws of God and building and lifting others.8 When we build, when we lift the burden of others, it blesses our lives in ways our trials cannot take away. I have a quote by President Gordon B. Hinckley placed where I see it every day. He said: “You don’t … build out of pessimism or cynicism. You look with optimism, work with faith, and things happen.”9

An example of that happy, optimistic spirit is a 13-year-old girl I know named Elsa, whose family is moving to Baton Rouge, Louisiana, 1,800 miles (2,900 km) away from her friends. It’s not very easy when you are 13 to move to a new place. Elsa was understandably unsure about the move, so her dad gave her a blessing. At the very moment of the blessing, her mom’s phone chimed with a text. The young women who live in Louisiana had sent this picture with the caption “Please move into our ward!”10

Young women holding welcome sign
These young women were optimistic they would like Elsa without even meeting her. Their enthusiasm created optimism in Elsa about the upcoming move and answered her prayer about whether everything would be all right.

There is an energy that comes from happiness and optimism that doesn’t just bless us—it builds everyone around us. Any small thing you do to light real happiness in others shows that you are already carrying the torch that President Kimball lit.

I was 15 years old at the time President Kimball’s talk was given. We who are older than 40 have been carrying this charge from President Kimball ever since that day. Now I look out at the 8-year-olds, the 15-year-olds, the 20-year-olds, and the 35-year-olds, and I’m going to pass this torch to you. You are the future leaders in this Church, and it will be up to you to carry this light forward and be the fulfillment of this prophecy. We who are older than 40 link our arms through yours and feel your strength and energy. We need you.

Listen to this scripture found in Doctrine and Covenants 49:26–28. It may have been written under different circumstances, but tonight by the Holy Spirit, I hope you will take it as your personal call to this sacred work.

“Behold, I say unto you, go forth as I have commanded you; repent of all your sins; ask and ye shall receive; knock and it shall be opened unto you.

“Behold, I will go before you and be your rearward; and I will be in your midst, and you shall not be confounded.

“Behold, I am Jesus Christ, and I come quickly.”11

I appeal to each of you to put yourself in a place where you can feel the generous love God has for you. You cannot put yourself beyond the reach of that love. When you feel His love, when you love Him, you will repent and keep His commandments. When you keep His commandments, He can use you in His work. His work and glory is the exaltation and eternal life of women and men.

The prophets are calling on us, my sisters. Will you be righteous? Will you articulate your faith? Can you bear being distinct and different? Will your happiness in spite of your trials draw others who are good and noble and who need your friendship? Will you turn on your light? I testify the Lord Jesus Christ will go before us and be in our midst.

I conclude with the words of our well-loved prophet, Thomas S. Monson: “My dear sisters, this is your day, this is your time.”12 In the name of Jesus Christ, amen.