underdog wrote: ↑October 2nd, 2017, 8:03 amThanks for the new link. I'll take a look. Looks credible after the first few paragraphs.Mark wrote: ↑October 2nd, 2017, 7:48 amHogmeister wrote: ↑October 1st, 2017, 6:45 pmWould you agree that was similar to what happened earlier in Jackson county Missouri?
Then read on in section 124...
49 Verily, verily, I say unto you, that when I give a commandment to any of the sons of men to do a work unto my name, and those sons of men go with all their might and with all they have to perform that work, and cease not their diligence, and their enemies come upon them and hinder them from performing that work, behold, it behooveth me to require that work no more at the hands of those sons of men, but to accept of their offerings.
50 And the iniquity and transgression of my holy laws and commandments I will visit upon the heads of those who hindered my work, unto the third and fourth generation, so long as they repent not, and hate me, saith the Lord God.
51 Therefore, for this cause have I accepted the offerings of those whom I commanded to build up a city and a house unto my name, in Jackson county, Missouri, and were hindered by their enemies, saith the Lord your God.
The church was actually preserved/blessed and not destroyed by moving further west as prophesied by Joseph Smith and as shown by the historical record.
I stumbled across a blog by a fellow who really is no friend of the LDS church and frankly disagreed with Snuffers excommunication yet even he lays out the case of excommunication by showing one pointed accusation after another concerning Snuffers interpretations of the so called downfall of the LDS faith and its leadership hierarchy from Snuffers book and I also might ad his blogs he wrote that were even more accusatory toward LDS church leadership from its very beginnings. If you read his words you will begin to see that Snuffer was in open rebellion against church leadership and was accusing them of being in an apostate state since clear back to the time of Joseph's administration. He clearly says that the church and its ordinances were rejected by the Lord. Period. If you read his stuff you will see that Snuffer was subtlety setting himself up to become the leader of this new movement who love to shout from their rameumptons that they are the chosen remnant people of the Lord. Just exactly what Jim Harmston did in the early 90's and so many others have done in the past 200 years. This story is not new. The movement will crumble and fade away just like Harmstons did and Rigdons did and Stranges did and (insert your favorite apostate breakoff here). None have any valid Priesthood keys. None will prosper. All are in apostasy.
https://mormonheretic.org/2013/11/30/wh ... -got-exed/
That makes sense what you're saying about apostasy creeping in during Joseph's administration. Same thing happened in the first century after Christ died and was resurrected. Signs of apostasy were everywhere. Whenever a true prophet is on the earth, you better bet there will be continued attempts to lead the flock to apostatize. The parable in DC 101:43-62 predicts apostasy in Joseph's day.
This fact -- that apostasy is a clear and present danger to a group of true believers -- is all the more reason to appreciate the equality and balance of power that DC 107 set up. Joseph made a regular stake in Zion (the high council of that stake) equal in authority to the First Presidency and to the Q of the 12 and to the 70. This was to guard against apostasy. Centralized power usually leads to captivity, as Mosiah, Alma, and the Brother of Jared warned. In other words, centralized power leads to the abuse of the people. Denver shows how this happened beginning with B.Y.
Furthermore, in DC 107, even the president of the church could be tried by other quorums for apostasy or whatever transgression he would be accused of. And yet, DC 107 is completely ignored today. It's no secret in our TRADITION that the apostles call the shots in today's Church. If a stake president or high council tried to stand up to the Q of the 12's authority, they would be summarily released from their callings or flat out excommunicated. Denver's stake president was released because he wouldn't excommunicate Denver and in fact gave him a temple recommend just before being released. The new SP did the bidding of Elder Nelson. This abuse of power is what Joseph had in mind when DC 107 was given. DC 107 would thwart such abuse.
Brother Mark, you frequently bring up false prophets, or groups or persons that proved to be frauds, like Harmston and others. Will you answer this question? Don't you think that this would be Satan's plan? To send as many false prophets, if you will, to deceived the people, so that when a true prophet appears, the status quo people could say, "Oh boy, here we go again, Here's another one in a long line of frauds!" This is actually what history shows to be the case. There are forgeries everywhere, but the existence of frauds doesn't mean the "next guy" will also be a fraud. Would you please note your agreement to this point? Thank you.
Not interested in playing your possibility games here. The Lord told me thru the Holy Spirit many years ago that Harmston was a complete deceived fraud. He communicated that same answer to me about Snuffer when I began to read his blogs and books that gained interest among many on this site years ago. The Spirit has testified to me that TCOJCOLDS is in fact the real deal. It holds the valid Priesthood keys necessary to administer the ordinances of salvation and exaltation. The Spirit has already testified that Snuffer is a deceived imposter who holds no valid keys and has no authority. Of that I am sure. That's all I need to know about Snuffer to reject him outright. He is a dead end just waiting to implode. You will do likewise if you continue in your path.