Racist Mormon Church say Cultural Marxists

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Darren
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Racist Mormon Church say Cultural Marxists

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When Mormons Aspired to Be a ‘White and Delightsome’ People
by Emma Green, The Atlantic

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So many recent events in American life have been a call for the country to grapple with its legacy of racism and white supremacy, including the violence in Charlottesville and even the 2016 election. These events have created turmoil among some conservative Christian groups, who have tried—in fits and starts—to confront their own racial divisions.

One group, however, has taken a slightly different path: Mormons. While a majority of Mormons voted for Trump in the 2016 election, he fared far worse than previous Republican presidential candidates among the minority religious group. According to The Salt Lake Tribune, many in Mormon-heavy Utah doubted the president’s moral character and strength as a role model.

Choosing to Stay in the Mormon Church Despite Its Racist Legacy

Like other religious groups, Mormons have a complicated history around race. Until a few decades ago, the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints taught that they “shall be a white and a delightsome people,” a phrase taken from the Book of Mormon. Until the 1970s, the LDS Church also restricted black members’ participation in important rituals, and prohibited black men from becoming priests.

Max Perry Mueller, a historian at the University of Nebraska-Lincoln, argues that Mormonism is a quintessentially American religion. The Book of Mormon re-centers the story of Jesus on the Americas, and the faith, which was founded in the 19th century, also tells the story through a very American lens. Yet, while the story of race and the LDS Church is similar to other American experiences of race, it’s also distinctive, leaving Mormons to grapple with the legacy of racism and white supremacy in their own way.

I spoke with Mueller about his new book, Race and the Making of the Mormon People, which focuses on a few important figures in Mormon history. One of them, Jane Manning James, was part of the first black community in Salt Lake Valley. Despite her close relationship with the family of Joseph Smith, the founder of Mormonism, she was denied access to important religious rites during her lifetime because of her skin color.

Janan Graham-Russell wrote about her personal struggle with the LDS Church’s legacy of racism for The Atlantic in 2016. Lilly Fowler also reported on controversies over the Church’s Indian Student Placement program, which encouraged members to foster and adopt Native American children. My conversation with Mueller, below, has been edited for clarity and length.

Emma Green: There’s been talk about an emerging Mormon alt-right, populated by Mormon white nationalists. Much of this has focused on a Utah woman who blogs under the name ‘Wife with a Purpose,’ who created a “white-baby challenge” for fellow Mormons to perpetuate their putatively white heritage. What do you make of this?

Max Perry Mueller: Within Mormonism’s history is this concept of whiteness as Godliness and purity.

Issues of Christianity are often seen as linear, marching towards a certain direction. But actually, that’s not how history, especially theological history, works. The kind of white supremacy that’s at the heart of a lot of Mormon history, and the contemporary church that rejects white supremacy, both embody the same space.

Green: In what ways does white supremacy manifest either explicitly or implicitly in Mormon culture?

Mueller: Politics of respectability is huge. Mormons engage in respectability campaigning that is not unlike a lot of black church-going communities in the early 20th century. They’re trying to present themselves to mainstream, white, partisan gatekeepers as pious, patriotic, family-oriented, hardworking, contributing to the society, and willing to fight for the American flag in war. But unlike black Americans, Mormons were more easily accepted because of their skin pigment.

“I’m white with the exception of the color of my skin.”

Green: You describe a black woman, Jane Manning James, who leads a conflicted life of aspiring to be a full member of both the Smith family and the Mormon church. She wanted to be bound eternally with her family, which is an important part of Mormon theology, and yet she was denied this privilege during her lifetime.

She seems to have a complicated relationship with her race. There’s a line you included where she says, “I’m white with the exception of the color of my skin.”

Why would somebody say that, or want to be a part of a culture that makes them aspire toward a different skin color?

Mueller: The question you just raised is one that I still think about and will probably think about for the rest of my life. Why would this woman—who is clearly full of incredible intelligence, skills, and perseverance—throw her lot in with a community that would not have her as a member? I really do believe, at the end of the day, she had faith in the gospel that she dedicated her life to.

She was from Connecticut. Her mother was a slave, and she kind of had a liminal existence—the line between slave and free was not so clearly demarcated in the North. She was a servant girl in a rich household. Apparently, she had some kind of relationship, and a mixed-race child came about. And so maybe she saw a way out of this situation or was looking for a community that would not care about this relationship. She converts, she moves to Nauvoo, Illinois, where she lives with Joseph Smith. She was promised, not just by the church, but by Joseph Smith’s brother, that she could be a full member of the community. He told her, “You can actually overcome your lineage and join a pure lineage.”

Obviously, today, hearing that kind of message makes us squirm because we don’t understand race that way. But more importantly, James really took to this promise. She isn’t looking to save her people. She’s looking to save her family. And to her that means finding community with people that I think she believed would last into the hereafter into the kingdoms to come. I think she heard this message of redemption, of racial redemption, and she held onto that story for the rest of her life—even as the church, once she gets to Utah, begins to reject people of African descent.

The Book of Mormon “tells a story of racial schism … That’s a standard American story.”

Green: You write about how the text of Book of Mormon helped to create a racialized culture—based on the text, Mormons aspired to being “a white and delightsome people.” How do these notions of white purity end up in a sacred Mormon text?

Mueller: Whatever you want to say about the origins of the Book of Mormon, it fits its time period really well. It’s very American. It tells a story of racial schism and how it came to be, dividing the world into a hierarchy of races, and that’s a standard American story—especially the idea that people born to a so-called darker-skinned race could not be redeemed.

The story of the Book of Mormon is not a black-white story, as Americans know it, where white is European and black is African. It’s an interfamily story. According to the Book of Mormon, an Israelite family came to New York in the 6th century B.C.E. The two main populations there are the light-skinned population called the Nephites and the dark-skinned population called the Lamanites, and the book traces this elaborate story of the rise and fall rise and fall of their civilizations. The Lamanites, according to the book, become Native Americans. They’re the native peoples who early European colonizers of America encounter.

For a long, long time, Americans have wondered: To whom do these Native Americans actually belong, in terms of lineage? So the book really fits the 1830s notion that Indian-ness is irreconcilable with whiteness.

Green: Conflicts over race in the Mormon church have lasted well into the 20th and 21st centuries. Black men were only allowed to become priests starting in the 1970s, and black men and women could not participate in sacred Mormon temple rites until that point. The Mormon church didn’t repudiate its past teachings on race until 2013.

Why did it take so long for these reforms to emerge?

Mueller: When Mormons disavow their past, it’s not simply disavowing institutional history. It’s pointing out what’s wrong with past leaders. Because of continuing revelation—the Mormon belief that their leaders are speaking messages directly from God—it’s really hard to disavow the prophets. If you start disavowing the prophets of the past, that undercuts the whole premise that God provides revelations to his people in the present day.

Green: The LDS church historically encouraged its members to buy Native American slaves or to adopt native children and raise them in their homes.* The latter practice extended into the 1990s with a program called the Indian Student Placement Program.

What do you make of these practices, exactly? Were they racist?

Mueller: The first official Mormon mission in history was at the end of 1830, when Joseph Smith sent his most important lieutenants to the Delaware Indians who had been pushed west to what is contemporary Kansas. In other words, the first Mormon mission was to convert Native Americans. That urge to “redeem” the native people of America remains a key feature.

The Indian Student Placement Program was an institutional project, and I do think it was a racially tinged project to “civilize” large numbers of Native American children. That said, at an individual level and at the family level, it’s hard to overestimate how much love and devotion these families felt for their children, and the love and care they provided—not only to the native children but to the native children’s families.

“I’ve been predicting that Mormons will occupy spaces abandoned by white evangelicals.”

Green: In recent years, other conservative religious groups have pushed for what they call “racial reconciliation.” Are there similar efforts in the Mormon context?

Mueller: Their version of racial reconciliation is what I call “multi-cultural Mormonism.” There was an ad campaign called ‘I’m a Mormon’ from 2011 to 2012. This was explicitly presenting a multi-cultural face of Mormonism to the world: multi-cultural, multi-national, multi-lingual. The church acknowledged that it did have a problem as a white church.

But not a lot of kids are raised to save up for years and years to fund a mission to go to places that are often very difficult to live in, where they’re going to get doors slammed in their faces, where they might not speak the language. Kids from Utah are sent to Africa and South America. That’s a huge investment of their lives, and it’s supported by their families and institutional communities. I’m going to sound like a missionary here, but it is very much a message of unifying the world.

Unity is very important for Mormons. Religious unity used to be mapped onto racial unity. Today, it’s celebrating racial difference and racial history as a key part of the church.

Green: In recent months, people have called on conservative white Christians to grapple with issues of race, in part in response to a perceived resurgence of white nationalists and alt-right groups. What role do you think Mormons should play in this grappling?

Mueller: I’ve been predicting that Mormons will occupy spaces abandoned by white evangelicals: spaces of patriotism, family values, and morality that, unfortunately, some white evangelicals [have abandoned] because they have thrown in their lot and reputation with Trump and his white-Christian-nationalist project in such large numbers.

There are more Mormons outside the U.S. than inside. It’s likely that there are more non-white Mormons than there are white Mormons in the global church. So the church has its own future. It’s no longer an American project. It’s a global and international project. In the face of a U.S. political regime that puts white people and America first, a church that has a global identity has to reject that.

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/ar ... er/539994/
Last edited by Darren on September 18th, 2017, 1:28 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Fiannan
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Re: Racist Mormon Church say Cultural Marxists

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In the face of a U.S. political regime that puts white people and America first, a church that has a global identity has to reject that.
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Elizabeth
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China for Chinese, Asia for Asians, Japan for Japanese, Africa for Negros, where is the refuge and homeland for Aryans?

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Robin Hood
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Elizabeth wrote: September 18th, 2017, 1:48 pm China for Chinese, Asia for Asians, Japan for Japanese, Africa for Negros, where is the refuge and homeland for Aryans?
Yorkshire

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Thinker
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Racism is not only evil and anti-Christ, it is also unhealthy.

It is illegal for you to marry your cousin because the closer related you are, the more likely genetic problems will be multiplied.
The more genetically diverse your offspring are, the better chance they have genetically.
Bi-racial children are genetically superior than "in-breeds."

Also, our goal is to be more godly. "God is love"...& "God is no respector of persons."

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Elizabeth
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Nonsense Thinker.
Thinker wrote: September 18th, 2017, 2:08 pm Racism is not only evil and anti-Christ, it is also unhealthy.
The more genetically diverse your offspring are, the better chance they have genetically.
Bi-racial children are genetically superior than "in-breeds."

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Choosing to stay in America despite its racist legacy. Why dont the people that leave the Church and people that persecute the church over its past leave America because of its racist past?

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Thinker
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Elizabeth wrote: September 18th, 2017, 3:08 pm Nonsense Thinker.
Thinker wrote: September 18th, 2017, 2:08 pm Racism is not only evil and anti-Christ, it is also unhealthy.
The more genetically diverse your offspring are, the better chance they have genetically.
Bi-racial children are genetically superior than "in-breeds."
What is nonsense is when someone calls something "stupid" or "nonsense" without saying exactly in what way they disagree.
So, Elizabeth, tell me exactly how and why what I wrote is inaccurate.
If you cannot or refuse to, it implies that you were simply calling names - and that's against the rules on this forum, besides being illogical.

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David13
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Thinker wrote: September 18th, 2017, 5:26 pm
Elizabeth wrote: September 18th, 2017, 3:08 pm Nonsense Thinker.
Thinker wrote: September 18th, 2017, 2:08 pm Racism is not only evil and anti-Christ, it is also unhealthy.
The more genetically diverse your offspring are, the better chance they have genetically.
Bi-racial children are genetically superior than "in-breeds."
What is nonsense is when someone calls something "stupid" or "nonsense" without saying exactly in what way they disagree.
So, Elizabeth, tell me exactly how and why what I wrote is inaccurate.
If you cannot or refuse to, it implies that you were simply calling names - and that's against the rules on this forum, besides being illogical.

Mixed race marriages have a higher divorce rate. So, apparently a good percentage of the people in those marriages don't agree with you that it's "better".
I suspect also that if you look at the statistics, mixed religion marriages, mixed anything marriages have a higher divorce rate.
In a marriage you need to have a lot of similarity. Believe me, you will always have enough to disagree upon even when there a great deal of similarity in the two parties to the marriage.
And the most important factor you can have is ... keeping the marriage together harmoniously for the parties, and also, very importantly, for the offspring of this marriage.
You need to look at the statistics of kids from mixed marriages. They have far more problems than other kids, even if it's just trying to figure out who they are.
dc

I should add, you probably will be hard pressed to come up with people more evil to the core than 'Cultural Marxists'.

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Thinker wrote: September 18th, 2017, 5:26 pmIf you cannot or refuse to, it implies that you were simply calling names - and that's against the rules on this forum, besides being illogical.
No.

She didn't say something about you, she said your idea was nonsense. You may disagree with her, and you may believe an implication is made against you, but it is only a personal theoretical implication. She was simply disagreeing with your opinion. I do not share your belief that she implied calling you a name of any kind.

My own feelings are between Elizabeth's and the demagogue leftist activists who are being such a damaging blight on our world. Unfortunately, they are gaining strength in the USA faster than they are in other parts of the world (other places in the world are further down that evil rabbit hole than we are, but we're moving more quickly than they are.)

God created all mankind in His image. The physical, racial differences have a basis upon which we may theorize, but absent direct revelation they are just theories. However, we're commanded to love one another, and I certainly believe we need to live in peace and harmony with everyone we can. The imperfections we see, however, are so great that it is unlikely we will be able to remove them entirely while we are here on earth.

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David13 wrote: September 18th, 2017, 5:36 pmMixed race marriages have a higher divorce rate. So, apparently a good percentage of the people in those marriages don't agree with you that it's "better".
I served in the Baltimore, MD Ward when it was first created. Previously Baltimore had been split up into sections and been part of the wards in the surrounding suburbs. The Baltimore Ward was created when the city of Baltimore had enough members on its own to be a ward. There were 5 pairs of missionaries in that one ward, and there was a baptism that happened every single weekend for the five months I was there.

That ward was a wonderful experience. People of every ethnicity and background, education, wealth, whatever came and felt welcome. Some people wore clean sweats because that's what they had. They sat in the same row with people wearing $2,000 Italian suits, shared hymn books, and attended Sunday School classes.

I don't know what the ward is like today, but I see other ways Baltimore is in the news and I don't like it. I agree that we need to do all we can to live in harmony with each other, but in practice I don't see it working as well as it should. There are good people and bad people in all different groups, but I see hate dividing the world too much to say that peace is going to be possible absent a Second Coming-level miracle. The gospel helps, and I certainly hope this continues, but I don't see a lot of cooperation among different people in the world to last in many cases.

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It is illegal for you to marry your cousin because the closer related you are, the more likely genetic problems will be multiplied.
The more genetically diverse your offspring are, the better chance they have genetically.
Bi-racial children are genetically superior than "in-breeds."
Abraham was married to his half-sister and his posterity generally married cousins. But that is aside the point. Can you please point to actual genetic research to show that mixed-race children are genetically superior to children whose parents are both of the same race?

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Elizabeth wrote: September 18th, 2017, 1:48 pm China for Chinese, Asia for Asians, Japan for Japanese, Africa for Negros, where is the refuge and homeland for Aryans?
Since all white Americans are descendants of immigrants, you must realize yourself how silly that sounds.

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Robin Hood
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I think all the nations of the Earth should lay down their divisive differences, embrace their diversity, come together in one great brotherhood....... and attack the French!

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inho wrote: September 19th, 2017, 1:40 am
Elizabeth wrote: September 18th, 2017, 1:48 pm China for Chinese, Asia for Asians, Japan for Japanese, Africa for Negros, where is the refuge and homeland for Aryans?
Since all white Americans are descendants of immigrants, you must realize yourself how silly that sounds.
Land belongs to those who have the power to take it and hold onto it. Those unwilling to do so in the past are buried, forgotten, and their genes are extinct. This is an eternal principle.

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skmo
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Robin Hood wrote: September 19th, 2017, 7:17 am I think all the nations of the Earth should lay down their divisive differences, embrace their diversity, come together in one great brotherhood....... and attack the French!
How very rude of you. I thought British Civilization was dignified.

Didn't your mommy teach you it's not polite to pick on the weak, the crippled, and those mentally infirm?

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skmo
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Fiannan wrote: September 19th, 2017, 7:32 am
inho wrote: September 19th, 2017, 1:40 am
Elizabeth wrote: September 18th, 2017, 1:48 pm China for Chinese, Asia for Asians, Japan for Japanese, Africa for Negros, where is the refuge and homeland for Aryans?
Since all white Americans are descendants of immigrants, you must realize yourself how silly that sounds.
Land belongs to those who have the power to take it and hold onto it. Those unwilling to do so in the past are buried, forgotten, and their genes are extinct. This is an eternal principle.
Book of Mormon stories that my teacher tells to me
Are about the Lamanites in ancient history.
Long ago their fathers came from far across the sea,
Giv’n the land if they lived righteously.

Lamanites met others who were seeking liberty,
And the land soon welcomed all who wanted to be free.
Book of Mormon stories say that we must brothers be,
Giv’n the land if we live righteously.

Fiannan
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skmo wrote: September 19th, 2017, 7:56 am
Fiannan wrote: September 19th, 2017, 7:32 am
inho wrote: September 19th, 2017, 1:40 am
Elizabeth wrote: September 18th, 2017, 1:48 pm China for Chinese, Asia for Asians, Japan for Japanese, Africa for Negros, where is the refuge and homeland for Aryans?
Since all white Americans are descendants of immigrants, you must realize yourself how silly that sounds.
Land belongs to those who have the power to take it and hold onto it. Those unwilling to do so in the past are buried, forgotten, and their genes are extinct. This is an eternal principle.
Book of Mormon stories that my teacher tells to me
Are about the Lamanites in ancient history.
Long ago their fathers came from far across the sea,
Giv’n the land if they lived righteously.

Lamanites met others who were seeking liberty,
And the land soon welcomed all who wanted to be free.
Book of Mormon stories say that we must brothers be,
Giv’n the land if we live righteously.
Don't sing about the Nephites, do we? Maybe because they all got impaled on spears, men women and children. If they had lived righteously they would have kept their land. Same can be said for us.

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Robin Hood
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skmo wrote: September 19th, 2017, 7:53 am
Robin Hood wrote: September 19th, 2017, 7:17 am I think all the nations of the Earth should lay down their divisive differences, embrace their diversity, come together in one great brotherhood....... and attack the French!
How very rude of you. I thought British Civilization was dignified.

Didn't your mommy teach you it's not polite to pick on the weak, the crippled, and those mentally infirm?
No she didn't. ;)

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skmo wrote: September 19th, 2017, 7:56 am
Fiannan wrote: September 19th, 2017, 7:32 am
inho wrote: September 19th, 2017, 1:40 am
Elizabeth wrote: September 18th, 2017, 1:48 pm China for Chinese, Asia for Asians, Japan for Japanese, Africa for Negros, where is the refuge and homeland for Aryans?
Since all white Americans are descendants of immigrants, you must realize yourself how silly that sounds.
Land belongs to those who have the power to take it and hold onto it. Those unwilling to do so in the past are buried, forgotten, and their genes are extinct. This is an eternal principle.
Book of Mormon stories that my teacher tells to me
Are about the Lamanites in ancient history.
Long ago their fathers came from far across the sea,
Giv’n the land if they lived righteously.

Lamanites met others who were seeking liberty,
And the land soon welcomed all who wanted to be free.
Book of Mormon stories say that we must brothers be,
Giv’n the land if we live righteously.
When I was young I tried to make this primary song a little more historically accurate.

Lamanites met others who were seeking liberty,
So they cut their scalps off and then tied them to a tree,
Then they plucked their heart out and they ate it for their tea,
Given this land if they'd live riotously.
Last edited by Robin Hood on September 19th, 2017, 9:33 am, edited 1 time in total.

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skmo
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Fiannan wrote: September 19th, 2017, 8:19 am Don't sing about the Nephites, do we? Maybe because they all got impaled on spears, men women and children. If they had lived righteously they would have kept their land. Same can be said for us.
And don't you forget it, buddy. Remember, I'm one of those Lamanites, a descendant of the ones who impaled the Nephites. You white boys get out of line, well, I'm going to go out to my pole barn and start sharpening some spears.

Right after I finish making some spears.

And I'm going to get to that right after I finish brushing out my dog's Summer coat he's blowing out.

Come to think of it, I still need to change the belt on my dryer.

You know what, just keep waiting. I'll get to those spears any minute now. I'm busy browsing LDSFF at the moment.

Spears. Check.

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skmo
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Robin Hood wrote: September 19th, 2017, 9:00 am ...
Then they plucked their heart out and they ate it for their tea,
...
I've always wondered about this: Tea is a drink. It's not a mealtime, it's not a scheduled appointment, it's not a gathering. It's hot liquid which tastes really bad that people insist on drinking hot.

Why name a meal after a beverage?

While I'm asking questions, why drink tea? It tastes horrible. Granted, it's not as bad as that horrible, smells-like-it-was-brewed-in-a-dead-rat's-ear coffee that so many horrid Americans love so freakin' much, but still...

:edited to add:

I mean, c'mon: If you're going to break the WoW anyway, as close as you guys are to Ireland, why not do it with something delicious? Baileys!

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skmo wrote: September 19th, 2017, 9:11 am
Robin Hood wrote: September 19th, 2017, 9:00 am ...
Then they plucked their heart out and they ate it for their tea,
...
I've always wondered about this: Tea is a drink. It's not a mealtime, it's not a scheduled appointment, it's not a gathering. It's hot liquid which tastes really bad that people insist on drinking hot.

Why name a meal after a beverage?

While I'm asking questions, why drink tea? It tastes horrible. Granted, it's not as bad as that horrible, smells-like-it-was-brewed-in-a-dead-rat's-ear coffee that so many horrid Americans love so freakin' much, but still...

:edited to add:

I mean, c'mon: If you're going to break the WoW anyway, as close as you guys are to Ireland, why not do it with something delicious? Baileys!
Tea is a meal here in England.
It is also a drink. We don't get confused about it.

"Would you like to come round for tea?" refers to the meal.
"Would you like to come round for tea?" refers to the drink.
See, it's simple.

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skmo
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Robin Hood wrote: September 19th, 2017, 9:20 am Tea is a meal here in England.
It is also a drink. We don't get confused about it.

"Would you like to come round for tea?" refers to the meal.
"Would you like to come round for tea?" refers to the drink.
See, it's simple.
What can I say, apparently we Americans confuse easily...
>
>
>

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inho wrote: September 19th, 2017, 1:40 am
Elizabeth wrote: September 18th, 2017, 1:48 pm China for Chinese, Asia for Asians, Japan for Japanese, Africa for Negros, where is the refuge and homeland for Aryans?
Since all white Americans are descendants of immigrants, you must realize yourself how silly that sounds.
Ouch. Quite the burn there.

The Church condemns your racist doctrine Elizabeth.

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