Hey, Robin Hood, can you validate?

[Robin Hood]

People make money selling water.

They do, but it's crazy.

Not really. It's got to be made potable and deliverable. Most would prefer to pay someone to provide that service.

I guarantee that if water became the new fuel, people would be collecting off their roofs, and filling up Jerry cans at the river.

[ajax]

And some area's receive much more rain than others, which mean storage, deliverability etc are still of utmost importance.

[Robin Hood]

And some area's receive much more rain than others, which mean storage, deliverability etc are still of utmost importance.

True, but necessity is the mother of invention.

People would filter their laundry water, their shower/bath water, and even their urine!

[Silver]

http://wardsauto.com/engines/london-pol ... c596a9b958

London Police Testing Hydrogen Fuel Cell Scooters
Sep 14, 2017 Paul Myles | WardsAuto

Beyond environmental benefits, the Burgmans could represent ideal pursuit vehicles to stem the flood of robberies, smash-and-grab-raids, vehicle theft and acid attacks being carried out by scooter-riding criminal gangs plaguing the city.

Fuel-cell scooters on loan to London police from Suzuki for 18-month trial.

London Homesick Blues.jpg (48.68 KiB) Viewed 453 times

LONDON – Cops are testing hydrogen-fuel-cell scooters in a bid to play their part in helping improve air quality in the U.K.’s capital city.

London’s Metropolitan Police Service is assessing seven Suzuki Burgman hydrogen-powered scooters developed using fuel-cell technology provided by British specialists Intelligent Energy.

Beyond environmental benefits, the Burgmans could represent ideal pursuit vehicles to stem the flood of robberies, smash-and-grab-raids, vehicle theft and acid attacks being carried out by scooter-riding criminal gangs plaguing the city.

The 18-month trial will address various policing roles and could help police determine where the clean technology could be adopted across its fleet of vehicles.

Initially scooters will be used by Police Community Support Officers within the Roads and Transport Policing Command.

Suzuki GB has loaned the vehicles free of charge and their maintenance and fuel costs will be covered by a collaborative project partly funded by the Advanced Propulsion Center, an industrywide coalition of developers and producers of low-carbon propulsion systems.

“Being the U.K.’s largest police service, we constantly have vehicles on the roads and, therefore, it is our aim to make our fleet as clean as we can, whilst maintaining operational capability,” Cmdr. Neil Jerome for Territorial Policing says. “Through collaborative partnerships and innovative testing such as this, we can gain real-life experience of how we can progress our ambition and create a cleaner fleet that will benefit London and the service we provide.”

[gclayjr]

Robin Hood,

If you get it, I don't see it. Lexew1899 got it, but he missed a lot of it. I'm not sure how significant that is. The point is neither hydrogen, nor electricity is a primary source of energy. The source of energy is that fuel (including possibilities of hydro-electric and nuclear) that was used to produce the hydrogen or electricity and deliver it to their respective engine/motors.

Lexew1899 focused on the efficiencies in using fuel to create electricity, and the efficiencies of an electric motor, he completely missed the inefficiencies in delivery of the electricity to the motor That is the losses in the lines, the losses in the charging process itself, and the losses in the battery. While I know this is significant, I am not knowledgeable enough to defend how significant.

The hydrogen vehicle is internal combustion, so will have the same inefficiencies as other internal combustion engines, so it loses on that side to the electric motor.

Regards,

George Clay

[Silver]

perpetualmotion.gif (5.47 KiB) Viewed 109 times

[BeNotDeceived]

Robin Hood,

gclayjr wrote: ↑
Wed Sep 13, 2017 11:56 am
Robin Hood,

My view is that hydrogen cell powered cars are the real future, but there isn't as much money in that.

Where does the Hydrogen come from?

Water.

I don't know if you are trying be obtuse to be funny or you don't get it. You do sometimes say rediculous things to be funny.

OK, yea, it may come from water, but water can't be used. the water molecules have to be broken down into Hydrogen and Oxygen. It takes energy to do this. In fact more energy than is released in burning the Hydrogen.

The problem with hydrogen cars is the same problem with Electric cars. Neither Hydrogen nor Electricity is a source of energy for cars. They are merely means of Storing energy generated somewhere else.

Regards,

George Clay

Certainly not trying to be obtuse.
I'm not an expert in this field (or any other if I'm honest) but I have watched a number of documentary's on this subject ie. electric battery powered vehicles verses hydrogen cell powered vehicles; and the respective technologies and energy needs.
Hydrogen won hands down in every category. Obviously there are some technical issues still requiring resolution (not least the danger of rupture and the potentially explosive consequences) but the conclusion was that the raw material, water, is too cheap and plentiful. No one will make any money.

In my view, electric cars are a significant way off here in the UK. Tesla may announce it's latest improvements to battery storage and charger times to great fanfare, but that only works in California.
The same technology here in the UK would give drastically different performance.
In the dead of winter we need our headlights on (even in the daytime - which is only 6 or 7 hours), the heater on, the windscreen wipers (it's been known to rain here!) etc, and that's before we take into account the Sat Nav, the kids watching their DVD's, phone charging etc.
I might get to the supermarket and back.

I think you guys going with 220 volts was a much better choice over our 110. The metric system on the other hand, should of adopted the inch as the standard length, rather come up with convoluted meter.

Machine tools were already setup to use 1000ths of inches and 10,000ths for some things. Now you have to have two of every thing, just to work on a car. Funny though 1 Kilometer is the nominal depth needed for OTEC to tap water at optimal temperature. The meter was supposed to be 1/1000th the average diameter of the Earth or some silly, useless thing like that.

Again Nautical Miles are 1/60 of a degree, and metric measurement have no use for navigation i.e. we travel on the Earths surface, not along its diameter. On a good note, English is retaining its place as the universal language. It's the only language used by seasteaders, which is ironic considering French Polynesia looks to be their first focus. Next up may be the Marshall Islands where there are no tropical storms at 0 degrees lattitude aka the equator.

For a long time nuclear fusion seemed to hold the most promise, but alas it proves beyond our mortal abilities. Hydrogen does look to be our best method of conveyance, or bio fuel from the ocean, which again OTEC can revive much of the sterile ocean, by bringing up nutrients from the deep. Pumping cold sea water through pipes would make for a great household utility in some locations. Pump it underground and the cold pipes sweat fresh water, with no fear of drought, and Dr. Craven showed it can increase production fourfold, and produce any crop in a tropical climate.

[Lexew1899]

The problem with hydrogen is threefold.
1. It is dangerously explosive. Car accidents would have a danger of literally setting off a bomb.
2. Creating hydrogen is inefficient. The process of separating Hydrogen from Oxygen is called Electrolysis. You can test it yourself. Take a peice of gold and connect it to a 9v battery. Little bubbles will form. The efficiency of any kind of power conversion always results in some loss, I'm not sure how efficient Electrolysis is, but it's still another unnecessary step. You have to create electricity for this step, then covert that electricity into another fuel.
3. You are again using an ICE. They lose 70%of their energy due to thermal heat loss. Another waste of energy.

I've personally owned an EV for almost 5 years and have zero battery degeneration yet. Fueling it with a clean source of energy is the most effective way to reduce polluting that I can think of.