Looters- is stealing justfied in Houston?

[Gage]

I read an article where a news anchor was taking heat from flood victims for telling the police of looters at a super market. The looters evidently didnt see anything wrong with looting/stealing from the store and justified it by calling it survival. Stealing is stealing I suppose, but I put myself in that situation and wonder what I would do in the heat of desperation. Hopefully I would be prepared, but lets say you were but your stash was stolen or swept away in the flood. Would you steal/loot food to feed your family?

[Silver]

This dilemma makes me feel miserable.

[Hezekiah]

Commandments are neither convenient or expedient. Stealing is still stealing. Try seeing it from the shop owner's perspective. "Oh, you needed it? Then that makes it ok."

[Yahtzee]

If that was the only way to feed my children, then yes. But I'd track what I took and pay back the shop keeper + interest when things calmed down.
When I hear about looting though I think of opportunists who steal things they don't need, like jewelry and tvs. Not survival things like water and food.
Stealing is still stealing, but in a crisis situation, a shop keeper unwilling to help people live has the greater sin on their heads. My opinion of course.

[Gage]

I can see the desperation, but many people didnt think it was stealing because it was food. "its not like we are taking TV's" That is somewhat disturbing in itself. Like you say, just because you need it, or say you need it, it does not make it right to take something that isnt yours.

[h_p]

After hurricane Rita, I know law enforcement officers personally who did this exact thing. They took supplies and food from the local supermarkets for their use in the relief effort.

To me, it's a fine line. If someone legit needs it, I'd say it's justifiable. If they're taking it from someone who also legit needs it, it's not justifiable. If it is taken without permission, I'd say every effort should be taken to compensate the person it was taken from afterwards.

[Arenera]

Are cash registers and liquor needed to sustain life?

[lundbaek]

2 excellent suggestions:

"track what I took and pay back the shop keeper"

" every effort should be taken to compensate the person it was taken from afterwards."

[AI2.0]

I read an article where a news anchor was taking heat from flood victims for telling the police of looters at a super market. The looters evidently didnt see anything wrong with looting/stealing from the store and justified it by calling it survival. Stealing is stealing I suppose, but I put myself in that situation and wonder what I would do in the heat of desperation. Hopefully I would be prepared, but lets say you were but your stash was stolen or swept away in the flood. Would you steal/loot food to feed your family?

People who loot are taking electronics, clothes, things, that are not for their survival. They aren't looting/stealing to feed their families. I don't think the majority of people in these situations steal or loot, they pay for what they need, from where they can get it, they don't break into stores and steal stuff. If they are without provisions, they go to the shelters or get help from friends, but I don't think that moral people would rationalize taking from others what does not belong to them.

[Gage]

I read an article where a news anchor was taking heat from flood victims for telling the police of looters at a super market. The looters evidently didnt see anything wrong with looting/stealing from the store and justified it by calling it survival. Stealing is stealing I suppose, but I put myself in that situation and wonder what I would do in the heat of desperation. Hopefully I would be prepared, but lets say you were but your stash was stolen or swept away in the flood. Would you steal/loot food to feed your family?

People who loot are taking electronics, clothes, things, that are not for their survival. They aren't looting/stealing to feed their families. I don't think the majority of people in these situations steal or loot, they pay for what they need, from where they can get it, they don't break into stores and steal stuff. If they are without provisions, they go to the shelters or get help from friends, but I don't think that moral people would rationalize taking from others what does not belong to them.

Well thats the thing, these people were saying it wasnt looting because they were taking food, nobody was paying, they were just taking it. That is why I posted the OP, is taking/stealing food from a super market during a time like this justified.

[Gage]

Let me rephrase, I am sure it is justified by the guy that is starving. I guess what I am asking, Is it right? Can stealing ever be "right"? Are these people breaking a commandment?

[Silver]

Let me rephrase, I am sure it is justified by the guy that is starving. I guess what I am asking, Is it right? Can stealing ever be "right"? Are these people breaking a commandment?

"Thou shalt not steal" does not come equipped with an asterisk.

[Silver]

There are shelters all over Houston where food is available. There are also good-hearted people who, if asked properly and politely, would give you money and/or food. The idea that so soon after a disaster one must steal food or die is a false dichotomy.

[Hezekiah]

Does this guy look hungry or just greedy?

harveylootcrew.jpg (24.47 KiB) Viewed 1145 times

[Gage]

Let me rephrase, I am sure it is justified by the guy that is starving. I guess what I am asking, Is it right? Can stealing ever be "right"? Are these people breaking a commandment?

"Thou shalt not steal" does not come equipped with an asterisk.

I didnt mean to say right, I meant to say "justified". I personally agree that stealing is stealing. I was just surprised to read the amount of people that really felt justified in looting the super market because they were taking food that they supposed belonged to them under the circumstances.

[Yahtzee]

The more I read this discussion, the less I like my response. It's never okay to loot and steal.
It's also not okay for us to be so selfish that we let someone get to that point.
I just also hope people are willing to share is the point I think I wanted to make.

[Arenera]

The more I read this discussion, the less I like my response. It's never okay to loot and steal.
It's also not okay for us to be so selfish that we let someone get to that point.
I just also hope people are willing to share is the point I think I wanted to make.

I know some people in Houston and have talked with them a few times while Horrible Harvey has been blasting them.

This could be the worst climate event of all times. Rain fall peak at 52"". Over 6.5 million people impacted. Flooding in areas that have never flooded before.

Yet emergency responders, people from other states, and people in the area have all been helping those that are impacted. It is a great show of service and help.

There is no need to loot or steal. Those that are doing so, are really just thiefs. I wouldn't suggest people loot in Texas, they changed the punishment from 2 to 20 to 5 to Life. Texans don't mess around.

[AI2.0]

Let me rephrase, I am sure it is justified by the guy that is starving. I guess what I am asking, Is it right? Can stealing ever be "right"? Are these people breaking a commandment?

Is it ever 'right' to steal? No, but some might choose to steal and take the consequences--I'm thinking of the novel Les Miserables--he stole because his family was starving and in France of 1800 you couldn't expect a shelter or welfare services or the red cross. People did starve to death because no one would offer help or food. But, in Houston Texas of 2017, there is no need to steal, there are plenty of good people who will help and share whatever they have and there are plenty of relief services, so a person doesn't have to make the kind of choice that Jean Valjean made.

[setyourselffree]

Let me rephrase, I am sure it is justified by the guy that is starving. I guess what I am asking, Is it right? Can stealing ever be "right"? Are these people breaking a commandment?

"Thou shalt not steal" does not come equipped with an asterisk.

I can think of situations in the scriptures where both murder and lying were allowed by God. And those commandments did not come with an asterisks.

[brianj]

This leads me to think of Jean Valjean. The people in Houston had plenty of alternatives: buy food before the storm, go to a shelter, evacuate before the storm, etc. But what about people who don't have such luxuries? In Hugo's novel, Valjean spends 19 years in jail for stealing a loaf of bread to feed family when there was no alternative.

I don't have an answer.

[Ezra]

This leads me to think of Jean Valjean. The people in Houston had plenty of alternatives: buy food before the storm, go to a shelter, evacuate before the storm, etc. But what about people who don't have such luxuries? In Hugo's novel, Valjean spends 19 years in jail for stealing a loaf of bread to feed family when there was no alternative.

I don't have an answer.

I think the answer is to have a people who are educated in gospel.

I like this native American quote you will understand by the end how this is gospel.


Before our white brothers arrived to make us civilized men,
we didn't have any kind of prison. Because of this, we had no delinquents.
Without a prison, there can be no delinquents.
We had no locks nor keys and therefore among us there were no thieves.
When someone was so poor that he couldn't afford a horse, a tent or a blanket,
he would, in that case, receive it all as a gift.
We were too uncivilized to give great importance to private property.
We didn't know any kind of money and consequently, the value of a human being
was not determined by his wealth.
We had no written laws laid down, no lawyers, no politicians,
therefore we were not able to cheat and swindle one another.
We were really in bad shape before the white men arrived and I don't know
how to explain how we were able to manage without these fundamental things
that (so they tell us) are so necessary for a civilized society.

John (Fire) Lame Deer
Sioux Lakota - 1903-1976


We have gone very far down the road of worldly attachments and attitude of not being neighborly.

Even within our community's we are for the most part selfish and looking out for ourselfs instead of being part of a body of people who are and want to be helping each other up.

With times that are to come we had better learn to revert back to being a tribe where everyone is "family" in the sense that we truly care for them.

[harakim]

23 And it came to pass, that he went through the corn fields on the sabbath day; and his disciples began, as they went, to pluck the ears of corn.

24 And the Pharisees said unto him, Behold, why do they on the sabbath day that which is not lawful?

25 And he said unto them, Have ye never read what David did, when he had need, and was an hungred, he, and they that were with him?

26 How he went into the house of God in the days of Abiathar the high priest, and did eat the shewbread, which is not lawful to eat but for the priests, and gave also to them which were with him?

27 And he said unto them, The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath:

28 Therefore the Son of man is Lord also of the sabbath.

43 I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.

44 Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?

45 Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.

When accused we thee of stealing?

[shadow]

This leads me to think of Jean Valjean. The people in Houston had plenty of alternatives: buy food before the storm, go to a shelter, evacuate before the storm, etc. But what about people who don't have such luxuries? In Hugo's novel, Valjean spends 19 years in jail for stealing a loaf of bread to feed family when there was no alternative.

I don't have an answer.

I think the answer is to have a people who are educated in gospel.

I like this native American quote you will understand by the end how this is gospel.


Before our white brothers arrived to make us civilized men,
we didn't have any kind of prison. Because of this, we had no delinquents.
Without a prison, there can be no delinquents.
We had no locks nor keys and therefore among us there were no thieves.
When someone was so poor that he couldn't afford a horse, a tent or a blanket,
he would, in that case, receive it all as a gift.
We were too uncivilized to give great importance to private property.
We didn't know any kind of money and consequently, the value of a human being
was not determined by his wealth.
We had no written laws laid down, no lawyers, no politicians,
therefore we were not able to cheat and swindle one another.
We were really in bad shape before the white men arrived and I don't know
how to explain how we were able to manage without these fundamental things
that (so they tell us) are so necessary for a civilized society.

John (Fire) Lame Deer
Sioux Lakota - 1903-1976


We have gone very far down the road of worldly attachments and attitude of not being neighborly.

Even within our community's we are for the most part selfish and looking out for ourselfs instead of being part of a body of people who are and want to be helping each other up.

With times that are to come we had better learn to revert back to being a tribe where everyone is "family" in the sense that we truly care for them.

Looks like the native Americans don't know there own history. For example, they didn't have prisons unless you consider slavery as being in prison. If the crime was bad enough, and depending on the tribe being a thief was bad enough, you were simply killed. The native way of life wasn't very kind compared to today's Justice system. But hey, nice story. A lot can be learned from fictional stories.

[iWriteStuff]

I'm mildly curious what people think about the random armed individuals who are defending against looters.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-08-3 ... od-looters

lootnshoot.jpg (10.79 KiB) Viewed 898 times

[Lizzy60]

I'm mildly curious what people think about the random armed individuals who are defending against looters.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-08-3 ... od-looters
lootnshoot.jpg

Perhaps this is one reason that I heard a report that looting is occurring very infrequently in Houston. The police chief said that in an average week there will be several hundred reports/arrests of theft and similar crime, and there have been less than 50 as of yesterday. Just knowing that there is the possibility of a "random armed individual" in the vicinity is a great deterrent.