The Second Coming Is Not Happening In Our Lifetime. . . But What COULD Happen

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Sunain
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Re: No Missionary Work in the Millennium

Post by Sunain »

Ezekiel wrote: August 30th, 2017, 9:49 pm
Sunain wrote: August 30th, 2017, 8:25 pm The work of salvation continues throughout the millennium it does not end at the second coming.
I respectfully disagree.

How can there be millennial peace (no sin) if there are still speculators, unbelievers, and sinners roaming around? Besides, I highly doubt our wonderful Lord and Savior Jesus Christ would want to return if there were still people here who don't fully believe in Him. He was mocked when He came in the meridian of time; He won't be mocked again.

Also, how can all of these great and terrible judgements transpire if not every person has had the opportunity to decide whether or not to believe in the word? If not everyone has had the chance to make up their mind whether to believe or not, that would be unjust.

There will be much glorious work that occurs during the millennium, just not that work.

Food for thought:
Isaiah 52:10 wrote:The Lord hath made bare his holy arm in the eyes of all the nations; and all the ends of the earth shall see the salvation of our God.
Isaiah 11:10 wrote:And in that day there shall be a root of Jesse, which shall stand for an ensign of the people; to it shall the Gentiles seek: and his rest shall be glorious.
D&C 113:3-4 wrote:3 What is the rod spoken of in the first verse of the 11th chapter of Isaiah, that should come of the Stem of Jesse?
4 Behold, thus saith the Lord: It is a servant in the hands of Christ, who is partly a descendant of Jesse as well as of Ephraim, or of the house of Joseph, on whom there is laid much power.
I specifically said the work of Salvation, which is the term that is always used by the church when referencing genealogy, temple work and missionary work. It's an all encompassing term. I never said wicked will be on the earth. Only those that are Judged worthy to be here during the Millennium will be here. That includes those that have lived good lives but have not had the chance beforehand to gain the full knowledge of the gospel.

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Ezekiel
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Re: No Missionary Work in the Millennium

Post by Ezekiel »

Sunain wrote: August 30th, 2017, 10:16 pm
Ezekiel wrote: August 30th, 2017, 9:49 pm
Sunain wrote: August 30th, 2017, 8:25 pm The work of salvation continues throughout the millennium it does not end at the second coming.
I respectfully disagree.

How can there be millennial peace (no sin) if there are still speculators, unbelievers, and sinners roaming around? Besides, I highly doubt our wonderful Lord and Savior Jesus Christ would want to return if there were still people here who don't fully believe in Him. He was mocked when He came in the meridian of time; He won't be mocked again.

Also, how can all of these great and terrible judgements transpire if not every person has had the opportunity to decide whether or not to believe in the word? If not everyone has had the chance to make up their mind whether to believe or not, that would be unjust.

There will be much glorious work that occurs during the millennium, just not that work.

Food for thought:
Isaiah 52:10 wrote:The Lord hath made bare his holy arm in the eyes of all the nations; and all the ends of the earth shall see the salvation of our God.
Isaiah 11:10 wrote:And in that day there shall be a root of Jesse, which shall stand for an ensign of the people; to it shall the Gentiles seek: and his rest shall be glorious.
D&C 113:3-4 wrote:3 What is the rod spoken of in the first verse of the 11th chapter of Isaiah, that should come of the Stem of Jesse?
4 Behold, thus saith the Lord: It is a servant in the hands of Christ, who is partly a descendant of Jesse as well as of Ephraim, or of the house of Joseph, on whom there is laid much power.
I specifically said the work of Salvation, which is the term that is always used by the church when referencing genealogy, temple work and missionary work. It's an all encompassing term. I never said wicked will be on the earth. Only those that are Judged worthy to be here during the Millennium will be here. That includes those that have lived good lives but have not had the chance beforehand to gain the full knowledge of the gospel.
I understand; I was pointing out that there won't be missionary work. There cannot be full judgement poured out if not everyone has been given the full chance to believe in the full knowledge of the gospel. And without the full judgements the millennium simply cannot happen. That's what I meant.

Sunain
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Re: No Missionary Work in the Millennium

Post by Sunain »

Ezekiel wrote: August 30th, 2017, 10:18 pm
I understand; I was pointing out that there won't be missionary work. That's what I meant.
Yes there will be. Just like there is missionary work continuing on the other side now, so it will continue throughout the Millennium. I already posted the link above. Many of use also have similar phrasings in our patriarchal blessing about doing missionary work during that time.

Sunain
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Re: The Second Coming Is Not Happening In Our Lifetime. . . But What COULD Happen

Post by Sunain »

Who will be on the earth during the Millennium, and what will they be doing?

The Millennium is the 1,000-year period of peace and righteousness following the Second Coming of Jesus Christ, who will reign over the earth during that time (see Articles of Faith 1:10).

Those remaining on the earth during the Millennium will be the good people of the earth—those who were righteous and just, regardless of their religion. This includes those who will be on the earth at the time of the Second Coming as well as those who will be resurrected at that time and other times throughout the Millennium. The wicked will not remain on the earth and will not be resurrected until after the Millennium.

So, what will people do during these 1,000 years? We know that a main focus will be to continue the work of salvation—helping people come unto Christ. Church members will share the gospel with those remaining who have not received it in its fulness. Family history and temple work will be especially important and will link the entire family of man all the way back to Adam and Eve.

A thousand years is a long time, so it’s safe to assume that people will likely do a wide variety of things that are “virtuous, lovely, or of good report or praiseworthy” (Articles of Faith 1:13) but that have not necessarily been mentioned in any of the revelations. For more on the Millennium, see True to the Faith: A Gospel Reference (2004), 103–4.
https://www.lds.org/new-era/2014/06/to- ... g?lang=eng

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Ezekiel
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Re: No Missionary Work in the Millennium

Post by Ezekiel »

Sunain wrote: August 30th, 2017, 10:26 pm
Ezekiel wrote: August 30th, 2017, 10:18 pm
I understand; I was pointing out that there won't be missionary work. That's what I meant.
Yes there will be. Just like there is missionary work continuing on the other side now, so it will continue throughout the Millennium. I already posted the link above. Many of use also have similar phrasings in our patriarchal blessing about doing missionary work during that time.
No there will not be. Again, can a just God pour judgement out on all corners of the earth when not everyone has had a chance to hear the full truth? That would make Him an unjust God. That just doesn't make sense.

And in the current state of things, I agree with you 100%. It would be impossible to have everyone on the earth and on the other side of the veil hear the full truth before the millennium.

Food for thought:
JST Matthew 17:10-14 wrote:10 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Elias truly shall first come, and restore all things, as the prophets have written.

11 And again I say unto you that Elias has come already, concerning whom it is written, Behold, I will send my messenger, and he shall prepare the way before me; and they knew him not, and have done unto him, whatsoever they listed.

12 Likewise shall also the Son of man suffer of them.

13 But I say unto you, Who is Elias? Behold, this is Elias, whom I send to prepare the way before me.

14 Then the disciples understood that he spake unto them of John the Baptist, and also of another who should come and restore all things, as it is written by the prophets.
Last edited by Ezekiel on August 30th, 2017, 10:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Sunain
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Re: The Second Coming Is Not Happening In Our Lifetime. . . But What COULD Happen

Post by Sunain »

During the Millennium, all people on the earth will be good and just, but many will not have received the fulness of the gospel. Consequently, members of the Church will participate in missionary work.

Members of the Church will also participate in temple work during the Millennium. The Saints will continue to build temples and receive ordinances in behalf of their kindred dead.

https://www.lds.org/manual/true-to-the- ... m?lang=eng

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Ezekiel
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Re: The Second Coming Is Not Happening In Our Lifetime. . . But What COULD Happen

Post by Ezekiel »

Sunain wrote: August 30th, 2017, 10:51 pm
During the Millennium, all people on the earth will be good and just, but many will not have received the fulness of the gospel. Consequently, members of the Church will participate in missionary work.

Members of the Church will also participate in temple work during the Millennium. The Saints will continue to build temples and receive ordinances in behalf of their kindred dead.

https://www.lds.org/manual/true-to-the- ... m?lang=eng
I suppose that we will agree to disagree on this point :D

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Ezekiel
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Re: There Will Be No Work of Salvation Done in the Millennium

Post by Ezekiel »

LDS Anarchist wrote: August 31st, 2017, 11:28 am One quotes the scriptures, the other quotes a manual that contradicts the scriptures.
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Col. Flagg
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Re: The Second Coming Is Not Happening In Our Lifetime. . . But What COULD Happen

Post by Col. Flagg »

2033 is the year most biblical and LDS scholars have targeted based on events, timelines, research and numerical data in scripture.

Z2100
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Re: The Second Coming Is Not Happening In Our Lifetime. . . But What COULD Happen

Post by Z2100 »

Col. Flagg wrote: August 31st, 2017, 1:41 pm 2033 is the year most biblical and LDS scholars have targeted based on events, timelines, research and numerical data in scripture.
Yep. Quite a few Christians think the rapture will be 23/9, and the majority of Christians will/could be wrong about 2033...

Sunain
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Re: There Will Be No Work of Salvation Done in the Millennium

Post by Sunain »

Ezekiel wrote: August 31st, 2017, 12:37 pm
LDS Anarchist wrote: August 31st, 2017, 11:28 am One quotes the scriptures, the other quotes a manual that contradicts the scriptures.
One quotes what apostles and prophets have said as of June 2017, the other is YOUR interpretation of scripture. Your interpretation is wrong. Stop trying to confuse people with false doctrine here. ALL of these links below in this post all say the same thing and are consistent with OFFICIAL church doctrine: The work of salvation continues throughout the millennium. That's why we need a 1000 years to get all the work done. Temple work can only be done here on the Earth.

The work needs to be done for everyone that has lived, is living or will live on this earth before Final Judgement after the millennium. Everyone will also need to have had the opportunity to hear the fullness of the gospel preached to them by missionaries or the Savior himself either here on earth or in the spirit world before Final Judgement after the millennium.

All 4 quote from LDS.org all state that the Work of Salvation continue throughout the Millennium which I posted earlier in this thread and will relink here yet again:
President Ballard - June 2017: https://www.ldsfreedomforum.com/viewtop ... 18#p803807 - LDS.org Reference Link
Gospel Principles: https://www.ldsfreedomforum.com/viewtop ... 70#p803801 - LDS.org Reference Link
New Era - June 2014: https://www.ldsfreedomforum.com/viewtop ... 30#p803857 - LDS.org Reference Link
True to the Faith - 2004: https://www.ldsfreedomforum.com/viewtop ... 30#p803867 - LDS.org Reference Link

Here I'll add a few more quotes from Modern day prophets and apostles:
Joseph Smith - First Prophet and President of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints
The Prophet Joseph Smith said that people from heaven will visit the earth often during the Millennium. They will help with the work done in the temples and with missionary work.
https://www.lds.org/manual/gospel-funda ... m?lang=eng
Brigham Young - Second Prophet and President of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints
“there will be as many sects and parties then as now” (Journal of Discourses 11:275). On another occasion President Young said: “In the millennium men will have the privilege of being Presbyterians, Methodists, or Infidels, but they will not have the privilege of treating the name and character of Deity as they have done heretofore. No, but every knee shall bow and every tongue confess to the glory of God the Father that Jesus is the Christ” (Journal of Discourses 12:274).
These are the good people that are on the earth in the millennium that need to be taught the fullness of the gospel, through missionary work.
Joseph Fielding Smith - Tenth Prophet and President of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints
Some members of the Church have an erroneous idea that when the millennium comes all of the people are going to be swept off the earth except righteous members of the Church. That is not so. There will be millions of people, Catholics, Protestants, agnostics, Mohammedans, people of all classes, and of all beliefs, still permitted to remain upon the face of the earth, but they will be those who have lived clean lives, those who have been free from wickedness and corruption. All who belong, by virtue of their good lives, to the terrestrial order, as well as those who have kept the celestial law, will remain upon the face of the earth during the millennium. Eventually, however, the knowledge of the Lord will cover the earth as the waters do the sea. But there will be need for the preaching of the gospel, after the millennium is brought in, until all men are either converted or pass away. In the course of the thousand years all men will either come into the Church, or kingdom of God, or they will die and pass away. In that day there will be no death until men are old. Children will not die but will live to the age of a tree. Isaiah says this is 100 years. When the time comes for men to die, they will be changed in the twinkling of an eye, and there will be no graves. (Doctrines of Salvation, 1:86)
Joseph Fielding Smith - Tenth Prophet and President of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints
Spread of Gospel During Millennium. The gospel will be taught far more intensely and with greater power during the millennium, until all the inhabitants of the earth shall embrace it. Satan shall be bound so that he cannot tempt any man. Should any man refuse to repent and accept the gospel under those conditions then he would be accursed. Through the revelations given to the prophets, we learn that during the reign of Jesus Christ for a thousand years eventually all people will embrace the truth....
(Doctrines of Salvation, 3:64
Joseph F Smith - Sixth Prophet and President of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints
“That this work may be hastened so that all who believe, in the spirit world, may receive the benefit of deliverance, it is revealed that the great work of the Millennium shall be the work in the temples for the redemption of the dead; and then we hope to enjoy the benefits of revelation through the Urim and Thummim, or by such means as the Lord may reveal concerning those for whom the work shall be done, so that we may not work by chance, or by faith alone, without knowledge, but with the actual knowledge revealed unto us”
https://www.lds.org/manual/doctrines-of ... h?lang=eng
(Joseph F. Smith, Gospel Doctrine, 438).
Bruce R. McConkie - Quorum of the Twelve Apostles
Thus there will be many churches on earth when the Millennium begins. False worship will continue among those whose desires are good, "who are honorable men of the earth," but who have been "blinded by the craftiness of men." (D&C 76:75.) Plagues will rest upon them until they repent and believe the gospel or are destroyed, as the Prophet said. It follows that missionary work will continue into the Millennium until all who remain are converted. Then "the earth shall be full of the knowledge of the Lord, as the waters cover the sea." (Isa. 11:9.) Then every living soul on earth will belong to The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. (The Millennial Messiah, pp.651-652)
New Testament Student Manual, 2014 - Chapter 55: Revelation 12–16
Two Harvests
John described two harvests in Revelation 14:14–20, which are reminiscent of those described in the parable of the wheat and the tares (see Matthew 13:24–30, 36–43; D&C 86:1–7). The first harvest gathers out the righteous from the wicked (see Revelation 14:14–16; D&C 33:2–6). This gathering began when the gospel was restored in the latter days and will continue into the Millennium.
https://www.lds.org/manual/new-testamen ... 6?lang=eng
Last edited by Sunain on August 31st, 2017, 5:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Sunain
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Re: The Second Coming Is Not Happening In Our Lifetime. . . But What COULD Happen

Post by Sunain »

LDS Anarchist wrote: August 31st, 2017, 5:20 pm Elias is going to appear to those men, and direct them to stand up in general conference and say to all the saints exactly what McConkie said, because if all latter-day saints are as unwilling to read and understand the passage themselves, as you are, Sunain, not even Elias himself will be able to give them understanding. It will take their leaders eating humble pie to convince the saints that their leaders got it totally wrong.
No, as I said earlier, it's mathematically impossible for all the work of salvation to be completed before the second coming, regardless if it's tomorrow or 100 years from now. Now take math, plus all the links I just posted above from Prophets and Apostles, combine the two, both signify that the work will need to continue throughout the millennium to get it all done.

There isn't enough missionaries, temples, temple workers, ect. to get the work done in before the second coming. Ask any temple worker, temple president, or even President Ballard who said in June, just 3 months ago, that the work won't be done. About a year ago, I was told that the temple file is MILLIONS of names behind in getting the work done. That's millions of hours of work. Genealogy work also isn't good enough as there are errors and it will require angels to come help us get it all straight.
Joseph Fielding Smith - Tenth Prophet and President of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints
Many people have died without receiving these ordinances. People on the earth must perform these ordinances for them. This work is now being done in the temples of the Lord. There is too much work to finish before the Millennium begins, so it will be completed during that time. Resurrected beings will help us correct the mistakes we have made in doing research concerning our dead ancestors. They will also help us find the information we need to complete our records.
Doctrines of Salvation

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Ezekiel
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Re: There Will Be No Work of Salvation Done in the Millennium

Post by Ezekiel »

Sunain wrote: August 31st, 2017, 4:17 pm One quotes what apostles and prophets have said as of June 2017, the other is YOUR interpretation of scripture. Your interpretation is wrong. Stop trying to confuse people with false doctrine here. ALL of these links below in this post all say the same thing and are consistent with OFFICIAL church doctrine: The work of salvation continues throughout the millennium. That's why we need a 1000 years to get all the work done. Temple work can only be done here on the Earth.
I don't really see how more plain it can get. It cannot be false doctrine; the Doctrine and Covenants literally state that he shall have sealed all things, unto the end of all things before the time of his coming. What you are implying is that the Doctrine and Covenants is false doctrine... and I doubt either of us believe that is the case. I'd pray and ask if these things are true in the name of Jesus Christ. As said in the epistle of James, God liberally gives knowledge to those who ask in faith. :)
D&C 77:12 wrote: Q. What are we to understand by the sounding of the trumpets, mentioned in the 8th chapter of Revelation?

A. We are to understand that as God made the world in six days, and on the seventh day he finished his work, and sanctified it, and also formed man out of the dust of the earth, even so, in the beginning of the seventh thousand years will the Lord God sanctify the earth, and complete the salvation of man, and judge all things, and shall redeem all things, except that which he hath not put into his power, when he shall have sealed all things, unto the end of all things; and the sounding of the trumpets of the seven angels are the preparing and finishing of his work, in the beginning of the seventh thousand years—the preparing of the way before the time of his coming.

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Ezekiel
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Re: The Second Coming Is Not Happening In Our Lifetime. . . But What COULD Happen

Post by Ezekiel »

Sunain wrote: August 31st, 2017, 5:38 pm No, as I said earlier, it's mathematically impossible for all the work of salvation to be completed before the second coming, regardless if it's tomorrow or 100 years from now. Now take math, plus all the links I just posted above from Prophets and Apostles, combine the two, both signify that the work will need to continue throughout the millennium to get it all done.

There isn't enough missionaries, temples, temple workers, ect. to get the work done in before the second coming. Ask any temple worker, temple president, or even President Ballard who said in June, just 3 months ago, that the work won't be done. About a year ago, I was told that the temple file is MILLIONS of names behind in getting the work done. That's millions of hours of work. Genealogy work also isn't good enough as there are errors and it will require angels to come help us get it all straight.
Joseph Fielding Smith - Tenth Prophet and President of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints
Many people have died without receiving these ordinances. People on the earth must perform these ordinances for them. This work is now being done in the temples of the Lord. There is too much work to finish before the Millennium begins, so it will be completed during that time. Resurrected beings will help us correct the mistakes we have made in doing research concerning our dead ancestors. They will also help us find the information we need to complete our records.
Doctrines of Salvation

Unless Jesus is lying there might be something here to potentially answer that concern. I don't know anything more than you but I'm just going off of the scriptures themselves.

JST Matthew 17:10-14 wrote: 10 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Elias truly shall first come, and restore all things, as the prophets have written.

11 And again I say unto you that Elias has come already, concerning whom it is written, Behold, I will send my messenger, and he shall prepare the way before me; and they knew him not, and have done unto him, whatsoever they listed.

12 Likewise shall also the Son of man suffer of them.

13 But I say unto you, Who is Elias? Behold, this is Elias, whom I send to prepare the way before me.

14 Then the disciples understood that he spake unto them of John the Baptist, and also of another who should come and restore all things, as it is written by the prophets.

Sunain
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Re: There Will Be No Work of Salvation Done in the Millennium

Post by Sunain »

Ezekiel wrote: August 31st, 2017, 5:55 pm I'd pray and ask if these things are true in the name of Jesus Christ. As said in the epistle of James, God liberally gives knowledge to those who ask in faith. :)
I just posted a dozen official lds.org links from Joseph Smith to President Ballard, to official church manuals, they all say the Work of Salvation continues into and throughout the millennium till it's done. There are dozens more on the same topic saying the same thing but the ones I posted were the most common ones used in the church today.

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Ezekiel
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Re: There Will Be No Work of Salvation Done in the Millennium

Post by Ezekiel »

Sunain wrote: August 31st, 2017, 6:18 pm
Ezekiel wrote: August 31st, 2017, 5:55 pm I'd pray and ask if these things are true in the name of Jesus Christ. As said in the epistle of James, God liberally gives knowledge to those who ask in faith. :)
I just posted a dozen official lds.org links from Joseph Smith to President Ballard, to official church manuals, they all say the Work of Salvation continues into and throughout the millennium till it's done. There are dozens more on the same topic saying the same thing but the ones I posted were the most common ones used in the church today.
Ok so I guess scriptures don't matter - just church manuals.

awar_e
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Re: The Second Coming Is Not Happening In Our Lifetime. . . But What COULD Happen

Post by awar_e »

It seems that no forum can withstand the desire for the teachings of man to over rule common sense and the words of prophets.
To RESIDE here during the millennium requires TWO THINGS.
"Every knee shall bend and EVERY tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord and Savor of the world."
This SHOULD Mean that MANY will be here that are NOT members of the True Church. The Terestrial will also be here.
No further knowledge need be proclaimed UNTIL that time.

awar_e
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Re: The Second Coming Is Not Happening In Our Lifetime. . . But What COULD Happen

Post by awar_e »

The words of Ezra Taft Benson ring for ever in my mind.
"Sometimes from behind the pulpit, in our classrooms, in our council
meetings, and in our Church publications, we hear, read or witness
things that do not square with the truth. This is especially true where freedom is involved ....

Let me give you a crucial key to help you avoid being deceived. It is
this - learn to keep your eye on the Prophet. He is the Lord’s
mouthpiece and the only man who can speak for the Lord today .... then live close to the Spirit so you may know the truth of all things.

“Wherefore, meaning the church, thou shalt give heed unto all his
words and commandments which he shall give unto you as he receiveth them .... For his word ye shall receive, as if from Mine own mouth, in all
patience and faith.” (D&C 21:4-5).

Sunain
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Re: The Second Coming Is Not Happening In Our Lifetime. . . But What COULD Happen

Post by Sunain »

I for one will not be idle for 1000 years doing nothing. Why all you guys think we won't be helping the Lord accomplish His work throughout the millennium as we are doing now is just mind blogging especially with all the PROPHETS saying so. The work of The Church of Jesus Christ expands greatly during the millennium, it does NOT stop at the second coming. Member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints believe in modern day revelation coming from Apostles and Prophets. Those links are quote from Apostles and Prophets.

You guys keep quoting your interpretation of D&C 77:12 but modern day revelation from D&C 138 has revealed that the Work of Salvation continues right now in the Spirit World as well. If the Holy Ghost and Jesus are there, why are these faithful servants working as missionaries there? Couldn't Jesus just do all the work?
30 But behold, from among the righteous, he organized his forces and appointed messengers, clothed with power and authority, and commissioned them to go forth and carry the light of the gospel to them that were in darkness, even to all the spirits of men; and thus was the gospel preached to the dead.

31 And the chosen messengers went forth to declare the acceptable day of the Lord and proclaim liberty to the captives who were bound, even unto all who would repent of their sins and receive the gospel.

32 Thus was the gospel preached to those who had died in their sins, without a knowledge of the truth, or in transgression, having rejected the prophets.

33 These were taught faith in God, repentance from sin, vicarious baptism for the remission of sins, the gift of the Holy Ghost by the laying on of hands,

57 I beheld that the faithful elders of this dispensation, when they depart from mortal life, continue their labors in the preaching of the gospel of repentance and redemption, through the sacrifice of the Only Begotten Son of God, among those who are in darkness and under the bondage of sin in the great world of the spirits of the dead.
https://www.lds.org/scriptures/dc-testa ... 8?lang=eng
The Second Coming will soften the hearts of many to the reception of the gospel message as He will be here to teach it himself and we will be there as missionaries to help family, friends, neighbours and investigators come to a FULL knowledge of the truthfulness of His gospel. Missionaries are called in His name to teach and preach His gospel. That task never stops till all have had the chance to accept or reject the message.

Why would we build a temple in the New Jerusalem or in Jerusalem if we aren't going to use them as Temples for the work of salvation?

If we aren't helping others gain salvation during the 1000 year reign of the Savior as the Prophets have said, I pray thee, do tell what were going to be doing then for 1000 years while Jesus does all the work for us as you suggest?

What you are basically saying is we shouldn't bother doing any more temple, missionary or genealogy work now because Jesus is going to do it all in a few years at the second coming. Man I better go tell my bishop he's working too hard! Jesus is coming, bring on the Eternal Break Time!

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Re: The Second Coming Is Not Happening In Our Lifetime. . . But What COULD Happen

Post by Spaced_Out »

Sunain wrote: August 31st, 2017, 7:11 pm I for one will not be idle for 1000 years doing nothing. Why all you guys think we won't be helping the Lord accomplish His work throughout the millennium as we are doing now is just mind blogging especially with all the PROPHETS saying so. The work of The Church of Jesus Christ expands greatly during the millennium, it does NOT stop at the second coming. Member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints believe in modern day revelation coming from Apostles and Prophets. Those links are quote from Apostles and Prophets.
During the millennium the temple work will continue and all person that are able to receive a Terrestrial or Celestial glory will be resurrected during the millennium. Not everyone is immediately resurrected at his coming, The scriptures are also clear that in the beginning of the millennium there will still be a lot of heathen nations that will be punished for not coming to the temple to hear the word of the Lord. But later the entire earth will be filled with the knowledge of the Lord.
Temple work like baptism is an earthly ordinance and each person needs to be baptised and endowed by proxy that will take many many years for each and every person who has ever lived.
During the millennium the temples will be going 24 hours to get the work completed, yes tools like urim and thummim will be of great assistance in getting names for the temple work, but the work is massive.

Zechariah 14:16 ¶ And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the Lord of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles.

17 And it shall be, that whoso will not come up of all the families of the earth unto Jerusalem to worship the King, the Lord of hosts, even upon them shall be no rain.

Sunain
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Re: The Second Coming Is Not Happening In Our Lifetime. . . But What COULD Happen

Post by Sunain »

Spaced_Out wrote: September 1st, 2017, 7:57 am
Sunain wrote: August 31st, 2017, 7:11 pm I for one will not be idle for 1000 years doing nothing. Why all you guys think we won't be helping the Lord accomplish His work throughout the millennium as we are doing now is just mind blogging especially with all the PROPHETS saying so. The work of The Church of Jesus Christ expands greatly during the millennium, it does NOT stop at the second coming. Member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints believe in modern day revelation coming from Apostles and Prophets. Those links are quote from Apostles and Prophets.
During the millennium the temple work will continue and all person that are able to receive a Terrestrial or Celestial glory will be resurrected during the millennium. Not everyone is immediately resurrected at his coming, The scriptures are also clear that in the beginning of the millennium there will still be a lot of heathen nations that will be punished for not coming to the temple to hear the word of the Lord. But later the entire earth will be filled with the knowledge of the Lord.
Temple work like baptism is an earthly ordinance and each person needs to be baptised and endowed by proxy that will take many many years for each and every person who has ever lived.
During the millennium the temples will be going 24 hours to get the work completed, yes tools like urim and thummim will be of great assistance in getting names for the temple work, but the work is massive.

Zechariah 14:16 ¶ And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the Lord of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles.

17 And it shall be, that whoso will not come up of all the families of the earth unto Jerusalem to worship the King, the Lord of hosts, even upon them shall be no rain.
Exactly! The temples will be going non-stop and even more will need to be built. There is a lot of work ahead of us!

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Ezekiel
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Re: The Millennium is the Earth's Sabbath Day

Post by Ezekiel »

LDS Anarchist wrote: September 1st, 2017, 3:25 pm
Sunain wrote: August 31st, 2017, 7:11 pm I for one will not be idle for 1000 years doing nothing. Why all you guys think we won't be helping the Lord accomplish His work throughout the millennium as we are doing now is just mind blogging especially with all the PROPHETS saying so. The work of The Church of Jesus Christ expands greatly during the millennium, it does NOT stop at the second coming. Member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints believe in modern day revelation coming from Apostles and Prophets. Those links are quote from Apostles and Prophets.
The Millennium is patterned after the Sabbath day, which is the day of rest.
Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: but the seventh day is the sabbath of the Lord thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: for in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it. (Exodus 20:8-11)
Just as the first six days are days of labor, and the seventh day is the day we are not to do any labor, but are to rest, so the first six thousand years are years of labor, and in the beginning of the seventh thousand years all that work is finished, before Jesus comes back, and then Jesus returns and initiates the Great Millennium, in which there is to be rest from all the work of salvation. Notice the direct comparison Joseph Smith makes to the six days of creation labor and then the seventh day of rest:
Q. What are we to understand by the sounding of the trumpets, mentioned in the 8th chapter of Revelation?

A. We are to understand that as God made the world in six days, and on the seventh day he finished his work, and sanctified it, and also formed man out of the dust of the earth, even so, in the beginning of the seventh thousand years will the Lord God sanctify the earth, and complete the salvation of man, and judge all things, and shall redeem all things, except that which he hath not put into his power, when he shall have sealed all things, unto the end of all things; and the sounding of the trumpets of the seven angels are the preparing and finishing of his work, in the beginning of the seventh thousand years—the preparing of the way before the time of his coming. (D&C 77:12)
So, God performed His work for six days, and then finished His work on the seventh day, and then rested that day. The pattern is the same. The first sixth thousand years are years of work, then the work is finished in the beginning of the seventh thousand years, and then the earth rests for a thousand years from the Second Coming to the end of the Millennium. Should work be performed during the Millennium the people would be breaking the thousand year long Sabbath that Jesus ushers in. This would break God's commandment.
Sunain wrote: August 31st, 2017, 7:11 pm You guys keep quoting your interpretation of D&C 77:12 but modern day revelation from D&C 138 has revealed that the Work of Salvation continues right now in the Spirit World as well. If the Holy Ghost and Jesus are there, why are these faithful servants working as missionaries there? Couldn't Jesus just do all the work?
30 But behold, from among the righteous, he organized his forces and appointed messengers, clothed with power and authority, and commissioned them to go forth and carry the light of the gospel to them that were in darkness, even to all the spirits of men; and thus was the gospel preached to the dead.

31 And the chosen messengers went forth to declare the acceptable day of the Lord and proclaim liberty to the captives who were bound, even unto all who would repent of their sins and receive the gospel.

32 Thus was the gospel preached to those who had died in their sins, without a knowledge of the truth, or in transgression, having rejected the prophets.

33 These were taught faith in God, repentance from sin, vicarious baptism for the remission of sins, the gift of the Holy Ghost by the laying on of hands,

57 I beheld that the faithful elders of this dispensation, when they depart from mortal life, continue their labors in the preaching of the gospel of repentance and redemption, through the sacrifice of the Only Begotten Son of God, among those who are in darkness and under the bondage of sin in the great world of the spirits of the dead.
https://www.lds.org/scriptures/dc-testa ... 8?lang=eng
Salvation work is ongoing on both sides of the veil for the first sixth thousand years. We are required to perform the labors the Lord has given us until Elias shows up. None of us, as a group, can accomplish the full task. Not even with the thousand years of the Millennium at our disposal. Not even with 10 billion years at our disposal. This is because all things must be sealed to the end of all things, and all things is an infinite number. Remember, God said that the house of Israel would be as numberless as the stars in the heavens or the sands in the sea, impossible to count, and yet all these people must be numbered and sealed and given inheritances and so forth. So, the task is impossible to complete by the saints. Combine all the saints together and give them 100 trillion years to do it, and they still would not be able to accomplish the task. It's too much work. So, God provides a special servant who can do impossible things, whose title is the Elias who restores all things, and it is this guy who is capable of doing an infinite amount of work. And as he is accounted as one of us, God looks upon the completed task as having been completed by the group (even though It is Elias who does it all), but all of us participate in some small manner. So, we are required to do our insignificant parts, which don't make a dent, and then God's grace shows up in the form of Elias who re-does our imperfect work perfectly, and then completes the rest, so that we don't get destroyed by God's coming. These works have a deadline, and unless God's commandment to finish these works by the deadline is obeyed, we all get destroyed. So, to not have that happen, God sends this special servant to group-save us.

When the leadership of the LDS church say that the work continues into the Millennium, that is the shadow speaking. Mormonism is Elias's shadow, even his foreshadow. It arrived here about 200 years ago, ahead of Elias, and it thinks it is Elias, and so it attempts to do the works of Elias. But it cannot do the works of Elias, given that these works are infinite in scope and therefore impossible to do. But it tries anyway, and uses what it has at its disposal to fulfill the prophecies. So, knowing that in order to do these many works requires more time than from the First Vision to the Second Coming, it projects its work forward, past the Second Coming, thinking it will get it all done during those thousand years of the Millennium, maybe with the help of the angels. The shadow is trying to act like Elias, trying to speak like Elias, trying to think like Elias. But it's been separated from him for nearly 200 years now and it literally thinks of itself as Elias. So, it's grown longer than his person, and it's edges have become fuzzy, so that the silhouette isn't as precise as it should be. And it pushes ahead, building more temples and sending out more missionaries, trying to complete the work.

All of this is okay, for we are to perform these works according to our power and circumstances, as God has commanded, doing all within our power. The error lies in that the shadow is not Elias, despite it thinking it is, and has no power to complete the work, in any given timetable. So, like Peter Pan's shadow which had separated from him and started to do its own thing, and then later Peter tracked it down and Wendy sowed it back to Peter's foot, so the foreshadow of Elias will be reconnected to Elias when he shows up, and Elias will "fix it" so that it gives a perfect silhouette of his person, exactly his height and all its edges perfectly clear and sharp. And then Elias will proceed to work his miracles, for the shadow is nothing compared to the person who casts it. It's just a 2-dimensional, black image of a 3-dimensional colored person. You can't compare the two.

So, all your quotes of the leadership saying the work will proceed past the Second Coming is just the shadow speaking through them. None of them are aware of Elias's coming, so they push forward with what they have (the shadow) and what the shadow says, is what they say. But the shadow is wrong, nonetheless. And when Elias shows up he will go to the leadership and correct them, and then the leadership will go before the people and correct them, giving them the true understandings of how things really are.
Sunain wrote: August 31st, 2017, 7:11 pm The Second Coming will soften the hearts of many to the reception of the gospel message as He will be here to teach it himself and we will be there as missionaries to help family, friends, neighbours and investigators come to a FULL knowledge of the truthfulness of His gospel. Missionaries are called in His name to teach and preach His gospel. That task never stops till all have had the chance to accept or reject the message.
The Second Coming doesn't soften the hearts of anyone. The Second Coming is a day of judgment. And it only happens after all preaching has been done:
And again, this Gospel of the Kingdom shall be preached in all the world, for a witness unto all nations, and then shall the end come, or the destruction of the wicked; and again shall the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, be fulfilled. (JS-M 1:31-32)
The destruction of the wicked happens at the Second Coming. So, all preaching must be done before then. All preaching, on both sides of the veil, must be completed, every man hearing the gospel preached in his own language.
And this gospel shall be preached unto every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people. (D&C 133:37)

And then cometh the day when the arm of the Lord shall be revealed in power in convincing the nations, the heathen nations, the house of Joseph, of the gospel of their salvation. For it shall come to pass in that day, that every man shall hear the fulness of the gospel in his own tongue, and in his own language, through those who are ordained unto this power, by the administration of the Comforter, shed forth upon them for the revelation of Jesus Christ. (D&C 90:10-11)
So, the gospel is currently preached by the Mormons on this side of the veil, and by the dead elders on that side. But the time will come that Elias, who will have the convincing power, and his angelic helpers, will preach with this power to every man, on either side of the veil, in each man's own tongue and language, so that all the missionary work will be finished in a timely manner, regardless of the number of people that need to be preached to. Thus, Elias will use the convincing power to convince everyone, the whole world, both dead and living, that Jesus is the Christ, leaving nobody with any excuse. For the whole world needs to be left without excuse before the Lord can judge the world:
For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse: (Romans 1:20)

Call ye, therefore, upon them with loud proclamation, and with your testimony, fearing them not, for they are as grass, and all their glory as the flower thereof which soon falleth, that they may be left also without excuse—and that I may visit them in the day of visitation, when I shall unveil the face of my covering, to appoint the portion of the oppressor among hypocrites, where there is gnashing of teeth, if they reject my servants and my testimony which I have revealed unto them. (D&C 124:7-8)

What I have said unto you must needs be, that all men may be left without excuse; that wise men and rulers may hear and know that which they have never considered; that I may proceed to bring to pass my act, my strange act, and perform my work, my strange work, that men may discern between the righteous and the wicked, saith your God. (D&C 101:93-95)
I suppose I am writing all of this in vain, for I have been a member of this church from the time I was a boy, and I have heard the shadow's teachings all of my life, and I am fully aware of all of what it teaches, and I know how many latter-day saints are utterly convinced that the shadow is correct in all things--for the shadow is similar in confidence to Elias, and so just as Elias is supremely confident in all he says, so his shadow is likewise supremely confident about being right in all things--but I tell you that the shadow is fully wrong in this thing, and will be corrected by Elias in due time.
Sunain wrote: August 31st, 2017, 7:11 pm Why would we build a temple in the New Jerusalem or in Jerusalem if we aren't going to use them as Temples for the work of salvation?
The use of these temples during the Millennium will yet be revealed. Only 3 small parts of the restoration have occurred. We only know what we are to use temples for during this period of time, in which salvation work is done. Later on, Elias will restore all things, and then we'll have a full understanding.
Sunain wrote: August 31st, 2017, 7:11 pm If we aren't helping others gain salvation during the 1000 year reign of the Savior as the Prophets have said, I pray thee, do tell what were going to be doing then for 1000 years while Jesus does all the work for us as you suggest?
It's not that Jesus does all the work for us during the Millennium, it's that all the work is accomplished before Jesus comes back, by the instrument in His hands, Elias. As for what we will do, isn't there more to do than just preach and teach and baptize in life? Or, is that what you think life is all about?
Sunain wrote: August 31st, 2017, 7:11 pm What you are basically saying is we shouldn't bother doing any more temple, missionary or genealogy work now because Jesus is going to do it all in a few years at the second coming. Man I better go tell my bishop he's working too hard! Jesus is coming, bring on the Eternal Break Time!
If you stop doing the works you have been commanded to do, all you do is cut yourself off. Nobody is saying we are to stop our works.
And again, verily thus saith the Lord: Let the work of my temple, and all the works which I have appointed unto you, be continued on and not cease; and let your diligence, and your perseverance, and patience, and your works be redoubled, and you shall in nowise lose your reward, saith the Lord of Hosts. (D&C 127:4)
We are to perform all the works God has commanded, without ceasing, until Elias shows up. We are to do all within our power, and then when Elias shows up, he will tell us to stop, and then he will perform all the works to perfection, completing the salvation of man. Read what Joseph Smith said again:
Therefore, dearly beloved brethren, let us cheerfully do all things that lie in our power; and then may we stand still, with the utmost assurance, to see the salvation of God, and for his arm to be revealed. (D&C 123:17)
To me this is all so exciting. God and Jesus must love us a ton to send us a servant, Elias, so we may not be destroyed on that last day.

I hope we can find out who this person is soon; our world needs a lot of help.

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Re: The Second Coming Is Not Happening In Our Lifetime. . . But What COULD Happen

Post by pauzinho »

Q. What are we to understand by the sounding of the trumpets, mentioned in the 8th chapter of Revelation?

A. We are to understand that as God made the world in six days, and on the seventh day he finished his work, and sanctified it, and also formed man out of the dust of the earth, even so, in the beginning of the seventh thousand years will the Lord God sanctify the earth, and complete the salvation of man, and judge all things, and shall redeem all things, except that which he hath not put into his power, when he shall have sealed all things, unto the end of all things; and the sounding of the trumpets of the seven angels are the preparing and finishing of his work, in the beginning of the seventh thousand years—the preparing of the way before the time of his coming. (D&C 77:12)
It seems to me that the Lord did plenty of work based on this verse on the seventh day. And that He will continue to do work on the seventh day. As we are His servants, I believe we will be assisting in the completing the salvation and sanctification of man. Why else would Satan be loosed for a little season and final judgement occur at the end of the millennium?

Sunain
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Re: The Second Coming Is Not Happening In Our Lifetime. . . But What COULD Happen

Post by Sunain »

I will say this one last time, you are contradicting what the Prophets and Apostles have taught us about the millennial work. The links to the Prophets and Apostles discussing this work is completely opposite to what your opinion is. You are welcome to have your opinion but telling people that your opinion it is fact or it is going happen is false doctrine. You won't convince me or other here that your opinion is right because of what the Prophets and Apostles have taught us. I want to make this clear to all those that read this thread.

President Ballard - June 2017: https://www.ldsfreedomforum.com/viewtop ... 18#p803807 - LDS.org Reference Link
Gospel Principles: https://www.ldsfreedomforum.com/viewtop ... 70#p803801 - LDS.org Reference Link
New Era - June 2014: https://www.ldsfreedomforum.com/viewtop ... 30#p803857 - LDS.org Reference Link
True to the Faith - 2004: https://www.ldsfreedomforum.com/viewtop ... 30#p803867 - LDS.org Reference Link
Quotes on the subject from other Apostles and Prophets: https://www.ldsfreedomforum.com/viewtop ... 30#p804118

Spaced_Out
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Re: The Millennium is the Earth's Sabbath Day

Post by Spaced_Out »

LDS Anarchist wrote: September 1st, 2017, 3:25 pm
Sunain wrote: August 31st, 2017, 7:11 pm I for one will not be idle for 1000 years doing nothing. Why all you guys think we won't be helping the Lord accomplish His work throughout the millennium as we are doing now is just mind blogging especially with all the PROPHETS saying so. The work of The Church of Jesus Christ expands greatly during the millennium, it does NOT stop at the second coming. Member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints believe in modern day revelation coming from Apostles and Prophets. Those links are quote from Apostles and Prophets.
The Millennium is patterned after the Sabbath day, which is the day of rest.
:p :p :p :p :p :p
We do sacrament and baptisms on the Sabbath as well as teach lessons and hold firesides, home teaching etc...
The second coming is not on the start of the 7,000years but a good way in.

What you think of rest and what the scriptures refer to as rest are two very different things. We have the scriptures and the words of the prophets there is no room for error to believe that the temple will not be open and operating during the millennium.
To me going to the temple is a rest from wordy labours the scriptures clearly state that Zion and the temples will be built and ordinances preformed in them both in Jerusalem and the New Jerusalem. There will be 12 gates one for each Tribe of Israel to enter the temple.

The scriptures teach Jesus Christ will rule with a rod of iron during the millennium - is he going to be resting as you suppose. It is a rest from wickedness and Satan's rule over the earth.
Last edited by Spaced_Out on September 1st, 2017, 5:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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