Alaris' Comment - Brotherly Love

[Red]

Well, that was a major fail. You are so busy assuming that you are not even trying to see the points made. I am rehashing your posts as they have, or should have, become instructive. I have a mind that deals in the tiniest bit's of nuance. My attempt was to illustrate why you cannot understand that there is nothing wrong with directness and candor. There is nothing wrong with the common elements of conversation. There is nothing wrong with the process of communication. The only thing that makes them wrong is you have a filter that misinterprets intent and you misinterpret intent because you are missing the overall context. Look at the context that follows the "I don't know if you can" statement, does it not address why I do not think that you can - and was it not obviously correct judging by your continued disability to just read the words and take them for what they say and not imbue them with the overlays of your offense? Those are your feelings - not mine.

You have yet to acknowledge that this process of scripting how everyone should respond is a tool that has been used for ever on this board by a certain group of people. You will never see the TBM's demanding special treatment for our hurt feelings or inability to make our points. You are right for you but not for me. I put a lot of effort into the previous post, striving for clarity and to show you why you keep missing the boat but to no avail. In order for your claims, such as my implying you lack intelligence, to be true they would have to be what I intended. I had no such intent but you continue to be offended and ascribing an intent to my efforts that is false.

So ... we let it be ... you continue to live in your world of prescriptive acceptability and I will take you just as you are without further effort to let you see through another's eyes. I think you'll do just fine without my insight and get to where you are going with no problems. It is unfortunate that you see my efforts at honest and sincere communication as a state of being which requires repentance. Elisha laughed and made fun of the priests of Baal for their inability to call down fire. Somehow I think you would chastise him for not being properly charitable and I would champion him for being a servant of God. Que Sera, Sera

Curious, are you saying I'm in a certain group of people?

Here is the quote of the statement that I made identifying the group I am referencing:

It is not really your brand of nice, long before you it was Jules, it was blarsen (as in brent larson), it was Amonhi's, it was Gad's, agstakers, franktalk, jo1982, thomas, frederick...the list goes on and on.

I do not see you as a member of this group. These are the ones that I perceive seek to lead people astray, they themselves having been greatly deceived by the adversary. You are not one of them however, I do see you as sharing a couple of traits of this group such not sustaining the brethren and being critical of the church. I do not think you do that because you are overtly trying to destroy anything but I see it as coming from a place which does not have an adequate testimony of Jesus Christ.

lol, your assessment is completely incorrect. My favorite quote in regard to the church has always been one from Legrand Richards, "It's the Lord's Church, so I let Him worry about it." What context in which that was given, I do not know. I'm surprised at the gall you have to decide for yourself how much testimony of Christ someone else does or does not have. It's rather brazen of you. I recognize statements like that though. Those statements are made to control the person they are said to. If I were to argue with you about whether or not I have a testimony of Christ, I've walked right into your trap. You expect me to argue it. It's called projection. I suspect projection confuses you because you don't know why you're doing it. You don't realize what you're missing, but you're projecting the missing element subconconsiously. By starting an argument and if I were to engage you, you're validating what you've projected so that the problem is no longer yours, it is mine.

[passionflower]

Well, that was a major fail. You are so busy assuming that you are not even trying to see the points made. I am rehashing your posts as they have, or should have, become instructive. I have a mind that deals in the tiniest bit's of nuance. My attempt was to illustrate why you cannot understand that there is nothing wrong with directness and candor. There is nothing wrong with the common elements of conversation. There is nothing wrong with the process of communication. The only thing that makes them wrong is you have a filter that misinterprets intent and you misinterpret intent because you are missing the overall context. Look at the context that follows the "I don't know if you can" statement, does it not address why I do not think that you can - and was it not obviously correct judging by your continued disability to just read the words and take them for what they say and not imbue them with the overlays of your offense? Those are your feelings - not mine.

You have yet to acknowledge that this process of scripting how everyone should respond is a tool that has been used for ever on this board by a certain group of people. You will never see the TBM's demanding special treatment for our hurt feelings or inability to make our points. You are right for you but not for me. I put a lot of effort into the previous post, striving for clarity and to show you why you keep missing the boat but to no avail. In order for your claims, such as my implying you lack intelligence, to be true they would have to be what I intended. I had no such intent but you continue to be offended and ascribing an intent to my efforts that is false.

So ... we let it be ... you continue to live in your world of prescriptive acceptability and I will take you just as you are without further effort to let you see through another's eyes. I think you'll do just fine without my insight and get to where you are going with no problems. It is unfortunate that you see my efforts at honest and sincere communication as a state of being which requires repentance. Elisha laughed and made fun of the priests of Baal for their inability to call down fire. Somehow I think you would chastise him for not being properly charitable and I would champion him for being a servant of God. Que Sera, Sera

Brienox, I am simply in the dark and do not get what the conflict here was all about. Maybe Alaris can clue me in, as I don't understand what is making him so unhappy. It doesn't appear to me as if you are making character assassinations or anything like it.

As your yourself, feel free to respond to my posts in your usual fashion. Sounds like you can really challenge someone and create a very stimulating conversation. I like you just the way you are, and I believe "feedback is the breakfast, lunch, and dinner of champions."

[brlenox]

Well, that was a major fail. You are so busy assuming that you are not even trying to see the points made. I am rehashing your posts as they have, or should have, become instructive. I have a mind that deals in the tiniest bit's of nuance. My attempt was to illustrate why you cannot understand that there is nothing wrong with directness and candor. There is nothing wrong with the common elements of conversation. There is nothing wrong with the process of communication. The only thing that makes them wrong is you have a filter that misinterprets intent and you misinterpret intent because you are missing the overall context. Look at the context that follows the "I don't know if you can" statement, does it not address why I do not think that you can - and was it not obviously correct judging by your continued disability to just read the words and take them for what they say and not imbue them with the overlays of your offense? Those are your feelings - not mine.

You have yet to acknowledge that this process of scripting how everyone should respond is a tool that has been used for ever on this board by a certain group of people. You will never see the TBM's demanding special treatment for our hurt feelings or inability to make our points. You are right for you but not for me. I put a lot of effort into the previous post, striving for clarity and to show you why you keep missing the boat but to no avail. In order for your claims, such as my implying you lack intelligence, to be true they would have to be what I intended. I had no such intent but you continue to be offended and ascribing an intent to my efforts that is false.

So ... we let it be ... you continue to live in your world of prescriptive acceptability and I will take you just as you are without further effort to let you see through another's eyes. I think you'll do just fine without my insight and get to where you are going with no problems. It is unfortunate that you see my efforts at honest and sincere communication as a state of being which requires repentance. Elisha laughed and made fun of the priests of Baal for their inability to call down fire. Somehow I think you would chastise him for not being properly charitable and I would champion him for being a servant of God. Que Sera, Sera

Curious, are you saying I'm in a certain group of people?

Here is the quote of the statement that I made identifying the group I am referencing:

It is not really your brand of nice, long before you it was Jules, it was blarsen (as in brent larson), it was Amonhi's, it was Gad's, agstakers, franktalk, jo1982, thomas, frederick...the list goes on and on.

I do not see you as a member of this group. These are the ones that I perceive seek to lead people astray, they themselves having been greatly deceived by the adversary. You are not one of them however, I do see you as sharing a couple of traits of this group such not sustaining the brethren and being critical of the church. I do not think you do that because you are overtly trying to destroy anything but I see it as coming from a place which does not have an adequate testimony of Jesus Christ.

lol, your assessment is completely incorrect. My favorite quote in regard to the church has always been one from Legrand Richards, "It's the Lord's Church, so I let Him worry about it." What context in which that was given, I do not know. I'm surprised at the gall you have to decide for yourself how much testimony of Christ someone else does or does not have. It's rather brazen of you. I recognize statements like that though. Those statements are made to control the person they are said to. If I were to argue with you about whether or not I have a testimony of Christ, I've walked right into your trap. You expect me to argue it. It's called projection. I suspect projection confuses you because you don't know why you're doing it. You don't realize what you're missing, but you're projecting the missing element subconconsiously. By starting an argument and if I were to engage you, you're validating what you've projected so that the problem is no longer yours, it is mine.

Red, I simply answered a question.

[Red]

Curious, are you saying I'm in a certain group of people?

Here is the quote of the statement that I made identifying the group I am referencing:

It is not really your brand of nice, long before you it was Jules, it was blarsen (as in brent larson), it was Amonhi's, it was Gad's, agstakers, franktalk, jo1982, thomas, frederick...the list goes on and on.

I do not see you as a member of this group. These are the ones that I perceive seek to lead people astray, they themselves having been greatly deceived by the adversary. You are not one of them however, I do see you as sharing a couple of traits of this group such not sustaining the brethren and being critical of the church. I do not think you do that because you are overtly trying to destroy anything but I see it as coming from a place which does not have an adequate testimony of Jesus Christ.

lol, your assessment is completely incorrect. My favorite quote in regard to the church has always been one from Legrand Richards, "It's the Lord's Church, so I let Him worry about it." What context in which that was given, I do not know. I'm surprised at the gall you have to decide for yourself how much testimony of Christ someone else does or does not have. It's rather brazen of you. I recognize statements like that though. Those statements are made to control the person they are said to. If I were to argue with you about whether or not I have a testimony of Christ, I've walked right into your trap. You expect me to argue it. It's called projection. I suspect projection confuses you because you don't know why you're doing it. You don't realize what you're missing, but you're projecting the missing element subconconsiously. By starting an argument and if I were to engage you, you're validating what you've projected so that the problem is no longer yours, it is mine.

Red, I simply answered a question.

ahh, be careful. You elaborated where none was asked for.

[brlenox]

Well, that was a major fail. You are so busy assuming that you are not even trying to see the points made. I am rehashing your posts as they have, or should have, become instructive. I have a mind that deals in the tiniest bit's of nuance. My attempt was to illustrate why you cannot understand that there is nothing wrong with directness and candor. There is nothing wrong with the common elements of conversation. There is nothing wrong with the process of communication. The only thing that makes them wrong is you have a filter that misinterprets intent and you misinterpret intent because you are missing the overall context. Look at the context that follows the "I don't know if you can" statement, does it not address why I do not think that you can - and was it not obviously correct judging by your continued disability to just read the words and take them for what they say and not imbue them with the overlays of your offense? Those are your feelings - not mine.

You have yet to acknowledge that this process of scripting how everyone should respond is a tool that has been used for ever on this board by a certain group of people. You will never see the TBM's demanding special treatment for our hurt feelings or inability to make our points. You are right for you but not for me. I put a lot of effort into the previous post, striving for clarity and to show you why you keep missing the boat but to no avail. In order for your claims, such as my implying you lack intelligence, to be true they would have to be what I intended. I had no such intent but you continue to be offended and ascribing an intent to my efforts that is false.

So ... we let it be ... you continue to live in your world of prescriptive acceptability and I will take you just as you are without further effort to let you see through another's eyes. I think you'll do just fine without my insight and get to where you are going with no problems. It is unfortunate that you see my efforts at honest and sincere communication as a state of being which requires repentance. Elisha laughed and made fun of the priests of Baal for their inability to call down fire. Somehow I think you would chastise him for not being properly charitable and I would champion him for being a servant of God. Que Sera, Sera

Brienox, I am simply in the dark and do not get what the conflict here was all about. Maybe Alaris can clue me in, as I don't understand what is making him so unhappy. It doesn't appear to me as if you are making character assassinations or anything like it.

As your yourself, feel free to respond to my posts in your usual fashion. Sounds like you can really challenge someone and create a very stimulating conversation. I like you just the way you are, and I believe "feedback is the breakfast, lunch, and dinner of champions."

I like you am a little surprised at what some might characterize as the thin skin being illustrated. He did say his wife doped him up on melatonin and for some people that can leave them in a very altered state. I hope that is the extent of it but I'm beginning to doubt it is any different than what it looks like. Thank you passionflower, If people understood honesty in communication as you do the United States would not be suffering from the social crisis we currently see around us.

[brlenox]

Here is the quote of the statement that I made identifying the group I am referencing:



I do not see you as a member of this group. These are the ones that I perceive seek to lead people astray, they themselves having been greatly deceived by the adversary. You are not one of them however, I do see you as sharing a couple of traits of this group such not sustaining the brethren and being critical of the church. I do not think you do that because you are overtly trying to destroy anything but I see it as coming from a place which does not have an adequate testimony of Jesus Christ.

lol, your assessment is completely incorrect. My favorite quote in regard to the church has always been one from Legrand Richards, "It's the Lord's Church, so I let Him worry about it." What context in which that was given, I do not know. I'm surprised at the gall you have to decide for yourself how much testimony of Christ someone else does or does not have. It's rather brazen of you. I recognize statements like that though. Those statements are made to control the person they are said to. If I were to argue with you about whether or not I have a testimony of Christ, I've walked right into your trap. You expect me to argue it. It's called projection. I suspect projection confuses you because you don't know why you're doing it. You don't realize what you're missing, but you're projecting the missing element subconconsiously. By starting an argument and if I were to engage you, you're validating what you've projected so that the problem is no longer yours, it is mine.

Red, I simply answered a question.

ahh, be careful. You elaborated where none was asked for.

It was a bogo response. Buy one get one free. I thought for sure you'd think you were getting a bonus. What is clear from your response to my group response is that I underestimated your capacity to shovel out a horse stall. , :ymhug: , :)) , =:) , :O3 , ^#(^, :-B , I-) , X( Take your pick on the emoji.

[passionflower]

Well, that was a major fail. You are so busy assuming that you are not even trying to see the points made. I am rehashing your posts as they have, or should have, become instructive. I have a mind that deals in the tiniest bit's of nuance. My attempt was to illustrate why you cannot understand that there is nothing wrong with directness and candor. There is nothing wrong with the common elements of conversation. There is nothing wrong with the process of communication. The only thing that makes them wrong is you have a filter that misinterprets intent and you misinterpret intent because you are missing the overall context. Look at the context that follows the "I don't know if you can" statement, does it not address why I do not think that you can - and was it not obviously correct judging by your continued disability to just read the words and take them for what they say and not imbue them with the overlays of your offense? Those are your feelings - not mine.

You have yet to acknowledge that this process of scripting how everyone should respond is a tool that has been used for ever on this board by a certain group of people. You will never see the TBM's demanding special treatment for our hurt feelings or inability to make our points. You are right for you but not for me. I put a lot of effort into the previous post, striving for clarity and to show you why you keep missing the boat but to no avail. In order for your claims, such as my implying you lack intelligence, to be true they would have to be what I intended. I had no such intent but you continue to be offended and ascribing an intent to my efforts that is false.

So ... we let it be ... you continue to live in your world of prescriptive acceptability and I will take you just as you are without further effort to let you see through another's eyes. I think you'll do just fine without my insight and get to where you are going with no problems. It is unfortunate that you see my efforts at honest and sincere communication as a state of being which requires repentance. Elisha laughed and made fun of the priests of Baal for their inability to call down fire. Somehow I think you would chastise him for not being properly charitable and I would champion him for being a servant of God. Que Sera, Sera

Curious, are you saying I'm in a certain group of people?

Here is the quote of the statement that I made identifying the group I am referencing:

It is not really your brand of nice, long before you it was Jules, it was blarsen (as in brent larson), it was Amonhi's, it was Gad's, agstakers, franktalk, jo1982, thomas, frederick...the list goes on and on.

I do not see you as a member of this group. These are the ones that I perceive seek to lead people astray, they themselves having been greatly deceived by the adversary. You are not one of them however, I do see you as sharing a couple of traits of this group such not sustaining the brethren and being critical of the church. I do not think you do that because you are overtly trying to destroy anything but I see it as coming from a place which does not have an adequate testimony of Jesus Christ.

lol, your assessment is completely incorrect. My favorite quote in regard to the church has always been one from Legrand Richards, "It's the Lord's Church, so I let Him worry about it." What context in which that was given, I do not know. I'm surprised at the gall you have to decide for yourself how much testimony of Christ someone else does or does not have. It's rather brazen of you. I recognize statements like that though. Those statements are made to control the person they are said to. If I were to argue with you about whether or not I have a testimony of Christ, I've walked right into your trap. You expect me to argue it. It's called projection. I suspect projection confuses you because you don't know why you're doing it. You don't realize what you're missing, but you're projecting the missing element subconconsiously. By starting an argument and if I were to engage you, you're validating what you've projected so that the problem is no longer yours, it is mine.

Red, I guess you haven't "read" much of my Storyhour thread where I give a few accounts of my work in a State Hospital on the Maximum Security Ward, and I have thousands of hours of practicing psychotherapy under my belt. I am egalitarian by nature, and don't like to pull professional cards out on this forum, but in the defense of Brienox, I think I'll make an exception.

You do not possess the professional expertise required to analyze others and/or respond to them in the manner you are doing, as your amateurism is glariingly obvious, at least to me. Picking up a self help book, going to therapy yourself, or taking a few classes does not a professional expert make. Not even a bachelors degree in psychology does. Years of schooling and a lot of experience goes into it. With the grandiose manner you think you can accurately analyze others, and with the communication limitations of a forum no less, one would wonder if you can diagnose cancer, too.

Do you really see yourself as all that knowledgeable and talented? If so, go ahead and enter the observation cell of a serial killer and do your thing, Red. I have. I can think of guy right now who lured young men into his apartment and after repeatedly raping them, would cut them up. Sometimes he would engage in a sexual act and be dismembering at the same time. He then carefully froze their body parts and ate them like a TV dinner. Since you're so smart, would you like to take that on? Go ahead and give him your ideas on projection, brazenness, and narcisism. And don't forget to be defensive, too, and let's see how far your confidence in your own bravado goes and how successful you are.

[brlenox]

Red, I guess you haven't "read" much of my Storyhour thread where I give a few accounts of my work in a State Hospital on the Maximum Security Ward, and I have thousands of hours of practicing psychotherapy under my belt. I am egalitarian by nature, and don't like to pull professional cards out on this forum, but in the defense of Brienox, I think I'll make an exception.

You do not possess the professional expertise required to analyze others and/or respond to them in the manner you are doing, as your amateurism is glariingly obvious, at least to me. Picking up a self help book, going to therapy yourself, or taking a few classes does not a professional expert make. Not even a bachelors degree in psychology does. Years of schooling and a lot of experience goes into it. With the grandiose manner you think you can accurately analyze others, and with the communication limitations of a forum no less, one would wonder if you can diagnose cancer, too.

Do you really see yourself as all that knowledgeable and talented? If so, go ahead and enter the observation cell of a serial killer and do your thing, Red. I have. I can think of guy right now who lured young men into his apartment and after repeatedly raping them, would cut them up. Sometimes he would engage in a sexual act and be dismembering at the same time. He then carefully froze their body parts and ate them like a TV dinner. Since you're so smart, would you like to take that on? Go ahead and give him your ideas on projection, brazenness, and narcisism. And don't forget to be defensive, too, and let's see how far your confidence in your own bravado goes and how successful you are.

Sounds like ??????? ??????. If you took that on, or anything like it, boy that is saying something.

EDIT: Name removed to keep from tying Passionflowers description to anyone that it may or may not be.

[Red]

I outright admitted to not being a professional psychologist, please don't forget. You are absolutely right about experiences. A lot of experience, just like you say. We learn from our experiences primarily. It's how it was designed by God. My experience comes from living with a narcissist, that's all I have claimed to know, simple experience. I'm glad we can agree on that at least.

No, I'm afraid I haven't read your stories. It's really ironic, my mother also worked in a max security state prison hospital. She also liked to tell stories of what she experienced in the psyche Ward. I'm afraid I can't stomach the gore. I felt really bad for my mom for having to work there. It was a place mostly absent of the spirit. I was about 14 when she started working there. I would French braid her hair every day before she left for work so that the inmates couldn't grab her hair. I had to get up at 5am to do it, which is two hours earlier than I had to get up for school. I did it for her because I loved her and hated she had to work in such a horrible place. It was the only way I could think of to help her. Just a little bit of kindness. I don't envy your experience in a prison psych ward. I couldn't read stories like those. I couldn't listen to my mother either when she wanted to tell me the stories. I think she did it because it's how she coped with the horror of it. I would only braid her hair, to make up for not being able to listen to her.

I won't give you what you want, Passionflower. I'm sorry.

[Red]

lol, your assessment is completely incorrect. My favorite quote in regard to the church has always been one from Legrand Richards, "It's the Lord's Church, so I let Him worry about it." What context in which that was given, I do not know. I'm surprised at the gall you have to decide for yourself how much testimony of Christ someone else does or does not have. It's rather brazen of you. I recognize statements like that though. Those statements are made to control the person they are said to. If I were to argue with you about whether or not I have a testimony of Christ, I've walked right into your trap. You expect me to argue it. It's called projection. I suspect projection confuses you because you don't know why you're doing it. You don't realize what you're missing, but you're projecting the missing element subconconsiously. By starting an argument and if I were to engage you, you're validating what you've projected so that the problem is no longer yours, it is mine.

Red, I simply answered a question.

ahh, be careful. You elaborated where none was asked for.

It was a bogo response. Buy one get one free. I thought for sure you'd think you were getting a bonus. What is clear from your response to my group response is that I underestimated your capacity to shovel out a horse stall. , :ymhug: , :)) , =:) , :O3 , ^#(^, :-B , I-) , X( Take your pick on the emoji.

Lol, bogo, that's funny. Not sure what the horsestall means but I'll take the smile emoji.

[brlenox]

Lol, bogo, that's funny. Not sure what the horsestall means but I'll take the smile emoji.

CleaningStall-1.jpg (48.86 KiB) Viewed 876 times

Does this help?

[Alaris]

Well, that was a major fail. You are so busy assuming that you are not even trying to see the points made. I am rehashing your posts as they have, or should have, become instructive. I have a mind that deals in the tiniest bit's of nuance. My attempt was to illustrate why you cannot understand that there is nothing wrong with directness and candor. There is nothing wrong with the common elements of conversation. There is nothing wrong with the process of communication. The only thing that makes them wrong is you have a filter that misinterprets intent and you misinterpret intent because you are missing the overall context. Look at the context that follows the "I don't know if you can" statement, does it not address why I do not think that you can - and was it not obviously correct judging by your continued disability to just read the words and take them for what they say and not imbue them with the overlays of your offense? Those are your feelings - not mine.

Brlenox. I see your points. There is nothing wrong my intelligence and perceptions despite your sad attempts to convince me otherwise. This is called gaslighting:

Coming from a movie from the same name, ‘Gaslighting’ is a manipulative tactic that is one of the most insidious and common tactics out there, as it works hard to distort and erode your perception of reality, making you question your ability to trust in yourself and consequently, you don’t know if you’re justified in claiming abuse.
When you’re told that something didn’t happen, that you’re imagining things or being called crazy, starts to break you down to the point that you might even start gaslighting yourself to protect your sanity and reconcile any cognitive dissonance you feel between what you truly knowto be right and what you’re being told. A manipulative person will convince you not to trust yourself and that your confusion is a dysfunction on your end.

Red was spot on with her manipulative assessment. Prior to her response, I read the response to which she referred to my wife and she immediately spotted it and said, "Wow that's manipulative." You've got a problem Brlenox, and you won't ever be able to change until you hit step one in the process. Recognition.

You have yet to acknowledge that this process of scripting how everyone should respond is a tool that has been used for ever on this board by a certain group of people. You will never see the TBM's demanding special treatment for our hurt feelings or inability to make our points. You are right for you but not for me. I put a lot of effort into the previous post, striving for clarity and to show you why you keep missing the boat but to no avail. In order for your claims, such as my implying you lack intelligence, to be true they would have to be what I intended. I had no such intent but you continue to be offended and ascribing an intent to my efforts that is false.

So ... we let it be ... you continue to live in your world of prescriptive acceptability and I will take you just as you are without further effort to let you see through another's eyes. I think you'll do just fine without my insight and get to where you are going with no problems. It is unfortunate that you see my efforts at honest and sincere communication as a state of being which requires repentance. Elisha laughed and made fun of the priests of Baal for their inability to call down fire. Somehow I think you would chastise him for not being properly charitable and I would champion him for being a servant of God. Que Sera, Sera

I appreciate that sentiment. However, I do think you have some unhealthy habits that will absolutely impede your spiritual progress. The Elijah reference is like the one reference of a prophet mocking. I do think the story is both uplifting and entertaining. However imperfections do exist among the prophets, and I do not think Elijah would stand for using his example as an excuse to mock others who are wrong. Fools mock is what the Savior has to say on the matter. Two words. Simple truth. Perhaps Elijah was being a fool just as other prophets' errors attest to the one perfect being.

As for repentance ... we are all in a state which requires repentance. Repentance isn't a negative indicator of weakness but a positive principle for change. Until we have perfect charity we all can use this powerful tool (Moroni 7:48) to deny ourselves of ungodliness and accrue more light unto the perfect day. You have indicated here and in prior posts that there's no lacking in charity on your part. This is a key indicator of the problem from which you are suffering.

In the spirit of charity I'll give you one final example and propose that we leave this be. You are welcome to respond; however let's agree to disagree on my inability to understand intent and your lack of charity.

With the example you gave of your wife wanting a clean house and your children wanting friends over, you asked which one is more important. I do understand your point, however I feel the answer is they are both important. You can satisfy both your wife and your children with charity by teaching them that your wife's feelings do matter and are important to you and should be important to them. What a great teaching opportunity to help the kids understand empathy - how can we have friends over and show mother love and appreciation for all the hard work she does? Please do not attempt to alter history again to both save face and gaslight (again) by suggesting that my response was your intent all along to prove that I am lacking in my ability to comprehend the complexities of your nuances.

[brlenox]

Well, that was a major fail. You are so busy assuming that you are not even trying to see the points made. I am rehashing your posts as they have, or should have, become instructive. I have a mind that deals in the tiniest bit's of nuance. My attempt was to illustrate why you cannot understand that there is nothing wrong with directness and candor. There is nothing wrong with the common elements of conversation. There is nothing wrong with the process of communication. The only thing that makes them wrong is you have a filter that misinterprets intent and you misinterpret intent because you are missing the overall context. Look at the context that follows the "I don't know if you can" statement, does it not address why I do not think that you can - and was it not obviously correct judging by your continued disability to just read the words and take them for what they say and not imbue them with the overlays of your offense? Those are your feelings - not mine.

Brlenox. I see your points. There is nothing wrong my intelligence and perceptions despite your sad attempts to convince me otherwise. This is called gaslighting:

Coming from a movie from the same name, ‘Gaslighting’ is a manipulative tactic that is one of the most insidious and common tactics out there, as it works hard to distort and erode your perception of reality, making you question your ability to trust in yourself and consequently, you don’t know if you’re justified in claiming abuse.
When you’re told that something didn’t happen, that you’re imagining things or being called crazy, starts to break you down to the point that you might even start gaslighting yourself to protect your sanity and reconcile any cognitive dissonance you feel between what you truly knowto be right and what you’re being told. A manipulative person will convince you not to trust yourself and that your confusion is a dysfunction on your end.

Red was spot on with her manipulative assessment. Prior to her response, I read the response to which she referred to my wife and she immediately spotted it and said, "Wow that's manipulative." You've got a problem Brlenox, and you won't ever be able to change until you hit step one in the process. Recognition.

You have yet to acknowledge that this process of scripting how everyone should respond is a tool that has been used for ever on this board by a certain group of people. You will never see the TBM's demanding special treatment for our hurt feelings or inability to make our points. You are right for you but not for me. I put a lot of effort into the previous post, striving for clarity and to show you why you keep missing the boat but to no avail. In order for your claims, such as my implying you lack intelligence, to be true they would have to be what I intended. I had no such intent but you continue to be offended and ascribing an intent to my efforts that is false.

So ... we let it be ... you continue to live in your world of prescriptive acceptability and I will take you just as you are without further effort to let you see through another's eyes. I think you'll do just fine without my insight and get to where you are going with no problems. It is unfortunate that you see my efforts at honest and sincere communication as a state of being which requires repentance. Elisha laughed and made fun of the priests of Baal for their inability to call down fire. Somehow I think you would chastise him for not being properly charitable and I would champion him for being a servant of God. Que Sera, Sera

I appreciate that sentiment. However, I do think you have some unhealthy habits that will absolutely impede your spiritual progress. The Elijah reference is like the one reference of a prophet mocking. I do think the story is both uplifting and entertaining. However imperfections do exist among the prophets, and I do not think Elijah would stand for using his example as an excuse to mock others who are wrong. Fools mock is what the Savior has to say on the matter. Two words. Simple truth. Perhaps Elijah was being a fool just as other prophets' errors attest to the one perfect being.

As for repentance ... we are all in a state which requires repentance. Repentance isn't a negative indicator of weakness but a positive principle for change. Until we have perfect charity we all can use this powerful tool (Moroni 7:48) to deny ourselves of ungodliness and accrue more light unto the perfect day. You have indicated here and in prior posts that there's no lacking in charity on your part. This is a key indicator of the problem from which you are suffering.

In the spirit of charity I'll give you one final example and propose that we leave this be. You are welcome to respond; however let's agree to disagree on my inability to understand intent and your lack of charity.

With the example you gave of your wife wanting a clean house and your children wanting friends over, you asked which one is more important. I do understand your point, however I feel the answer is they are both important. You can satisfy both your wife and your children with charity by teaching them that your wife's feelings do matter and are important to you and should be important to them. What a great teaching opportunity to help the kids understand empathy - how can we have friends over and show mother love and appreciation for all the hard work she does? Please do not attempt to alter history again to both save face and gaslight (again) by suggesting that my response was your intent all along to prove that I am lacking in my ability to comprehend the complexities of your nuances.

No frankly I figured you might not respond at all. However, beyond that I have little response myself. You have proven me the ignorant one. All of your mind reading and assertions of my foul intent have left me at a loss for words. Enjoy it while you can.

[Red]

Alaris,

I love this!
"Repentance isn't a negative indicator of weakness but a positive principle for change."

I'm going to tell this to me children. One of them had to give a devotional in seminary and I tried to help him understand how sin doesn't have to have that icky-feeling of dread attached to it. Sin is only something that separates you from God. we don't want to be separate from God, so knowing that sin is merely a separation and not a pointing of fingers makes it so much easier to abandon the sin. Do you want to be separate from God? No, you want to be closer. That attitude makes it feel easier to renounce whatever that "sin" is. It doesn't feel like a chore or a requirement. It feels like a choice. We WANT to be closer to God. But I had a hard time putting it into words to help him on his devotional. It's done now, but many of the youth leave the church bc they feel so bad about "sinning". I hope to teach my children of Gods mercy, because it's a mercy that God gives us every chance to come close to him. Literally, every chance.

[Alaris]

Alaris,

I love this!
"Repentance isn't a negative indicator of weakness but a positive principle for change."

I'm going to tell this to me children. One of them had to give a devotional in seminary and I tried to help him understand how sin doesn't have to have that icky-feeling of dread attached to it. Sin is only something that separates you from God. we don't want to be separate from God, so knowing that sin is merely a separation and not a pointing of fingers makes it so much easier to abandon the sin. Do you want to be separate from God? No, you want to be closer. That attitude makes it feel easier to renounce whatever that "sin" is. It doesn't feel like a chore or a requirement. It feels like a choice. We WANT to be closer to God. But I had a hard time putting it into words to help him on his devotional. It's done now, but many of the youth leave the church bc they feel so bad about "sinning". I hope to teach my children of Gods mercy, because it's a mercy that God gives us every chance to come close to him. Literally, every chance.

It is the adversary who pushes the unapologetic culture in which we live where being right is more important than doing right. I too have changed my perspective on sin in recent years. I used to carry that self-inflicted guilt bag around fretting over my sins. When cross thoughts enter my mind now I am able to almost see them from a third person perspective on how to deal with them rather than beat myself up over it. I can see them as the obstacles as they are and let my desires to be closer to God outweigh the possibility of them bogging me down as you have suggested. I'm not perfect at it yet, but I do think seeing sin as God sees sin is an important step in the right direction.

[brlenox]

I appreciate that sentiment. However, I do think you have some unhealthy habits that will absolutely impede your spiritual progress. The Elijah reference is like the one reference of a prophet mocking. I do think the story is both uplifting and entertaining. However imperfections do exist among the prophets, and I do not think Elijah would stand for using his example as an excuse to mock others who are wrong. Fools mock is what the Savior has to say on the matter. Two words. Simple truth. Perhaps Elijah was being a fool just as other prophets' errors attest to the one perfect being.

As for repentance ... we are all in a state which requires repentance. Repentance isn't a negative indicator of weakness but a positive principle for change. Until we have perfect charity we all can use this powerful tool (Moroni 7:48) to deny ourselves of ungodliness and accrue more light unto the perfect day. You have indicated here and in prior posts that there's no lacking in charity on your part. This is a key indicator of the problem from which you are suffering.

In the spirit of charity I'll give you one final example and propose that we leave this be. You are welcome to respond; however let's agree to disagree on my inability to understand intent and your lack of charity.

With the example you gave of your wife wanting a clean house and your children wanting friends over, you asked which one is more important. I do understand your point, however I feel the answer is they are both important. You can satisfy both your wife and your children with charity by teaching them that your wife's feelings do matter and are important to you and should be important to them. What a great teaching opportunity to help the kids understand empathy - how can we have friends over and show mother love and appreciation for all the hard work she does? Please do not attempt to alter history again to both save face and gaslight (again) by suggesting that my response was your intent all along to prove that I am lacking in my ability to comprehend the complexities of your nuances.

No frankly I figured you might not respond at all. However, beyond that I have little response myself. You have proven me the ignorant one. All of your mind reading and assertions of my foul intent have left me at a loss for words. Enjoy it while you can.

I have learned one thing that I actually never noticed before. You and Red think in very similar ways...quite interesting.

[AI2.0]

Passionflower,

A good counselor can help you with your feelings of frustration (I am assuming frustration) and give you tactics on engaging across cultural platforms. It's no fun to be that frustrated. It can bring you a great amount of peace to learn how to engage and how to tolerate others. While it's normal to be frustrated occasionally, it sounds like you feel like you can't reveal your culture because "conflict ensues". It doesn't have to be that way. A counselor can help you learn how to talk to others in different cultures without feelings of frustration or anger. Just knowing the essence of who you're talking to can alleviate a lot of those feelings too. Sometimes knowing the traits of certain cultures and allowing a bit of lenience for it as long as the trait isn't unChrist-like can also alleviate frustration.

You know, that may be one way, though personally, I'd feel silly going to a counselor for help learning to carry on conversations on an internet forum.

I don't think she needs a counselor, I think she just needs us to understand that not everyone on the forum thinks the same and sometimes it's better to just let the matter drop, rather than belaboring the point and making the person feel even more like they just don't fit in.

[AI2.0]

Brlenox, back on page three, you said something very kind to me.

The discussion had slowed and so I was going to not respond, but rather let this thread die, but since it's still going, I will take the opportunity to say 'thanks' I really appreciate your kind remarks and value them.

[passionflower]

I outright admitted to not being a professional psychologist, please don't forget. You are absolutely right about experiences. A lot of experience, just like you say. We learn from our experiences primarily. It's how it was designed by God. My experience comes from living with a narcissist, that's all I have claimed to know, simple experience. I'm glad we can agree on that at least.

No, I'm afraid I haven't read your stories. It's really ironic, my mother also worked in a max security state prison hospital. She also liked to tell stories of what she experienced in the psyche Ward. I'm afraid I can't stomach the gore. I felt really bad for my mom for having to work there. It was a place mostly absent of the spirit. I was about 14 when she started working there. I would French braid her hair every day before she left for work so that the inmates couldn't grab her hair. I had to get up at 5am to do it, which is two hours earlier than I had to get up for school. I did it for her because I loved her and hated she had to work in such a horrible place. It was the only way I could think of to help her. Just a little bit of kindness. I don't envy your experience in a prison psych ward. I couldn't read stories like those. I couldn't listen to my mother either when she wanted to tell me the stories. I think she did it because it's how she coped with the horror of it. I would only braid her hair, to make up for not being able to listen to her.

I won't give you what you want, Passionflower. I'm sorry.

Admitting you are not a professional goes hand in hand with admitting you don't know a narcissist when you see one. Calling someone a "narcissist" is not like saying someone is tall, short, old or young. It is a term falling under the umbrella of psychiatry, and your use of this word, as well as other like descriptive terms is irresponsible.

I don't have any idea what a prison psyche ward is or a max security state prison hospital. I spent nine months working in a Maximum Security ward in a state run institutional hospital that was no where near a prison. As far as prison life goes, yes there are prisoners kept in a prison max security area who are abusive and dangerous. But those prisoners are not eligible to participate in a psychiatric rehabilitation program. To do so is an earned privilege that can be revoked at any time.

The stories I told are of people I know are dead or who are out in the open on the internet. If your mother really was working on a state run psychiatric ward for the court ordered criminally insane, she would have been breaking the law by going home or anywhere for that matter and telling stories, even if she was a low level worker. She is displaying very unprofessional behaviour, that if I engaged in, my license could have been revoked. Nothing about anyone could be discussed outside the hospital grounds, particularly the criminally insane. No pictures could be taken, No names could be mentioned. And no stories could be told. If your mother didn't like her job, she could go get another one.

You feel sorry for me? This was a very stimulating part of my life and I would not trade it for anything.

And what is it that I want, but you won't give me?

[AI2.0]

I outright admitted to not being a professional psychologist, please don't forget. You are absolutely right about experiences. A lot of experience, just like you say. We learn from our experiences primarily. It's how it was designed by God. My experience comes from living with a narcissist, that's all I have claimed to know, simple experience. I'm glad we can agree on that at least.

No, I'm afraid I haven't read your stories. It's really ironic, my mother also worked in a max security state prison hospital. She also liked to tell stories of what she experienced in the psyche Ward. I'm afraid I can't stomach the gore. I felt really bad for my mom for having to work there. It was a place mostly absent of the spirit. I was about 14 when she started working there. I would French braid her hair every day before she left for work so that the inmates couldn't grab her hair. I had to get up at 5am to do it, which is two hours earlier than I had to get up for school. I did it for her because I loved her and hated she had to work in such a horrible place. It was the only way I could think of to help her. Just a little bit of kindness. I don't envy your experience in a prison psych ward. I couldn't read stories like those. I couldn't listen to my mother either when she wanted to tell me the stories. I think she did it because it's how she coped with the horror of it. I would only braid her hair, to make up for not being able to listen to her.

I won't give you what you want, Passionflower. I'm sorry.

I'm starting to understand where you are coming from Red.

I understand that some people do not want to be exposed to ugliness. I got my Bachelor's degree in Psychology (I agree with Passionflower--you need years more training and then experience before it's of much value) and I remember the reaction of my Aunt to one of my books on Abnormal psychology--when she saw it, she remarked that she would never want to read a book like that! Ever, she thought it was an awful topic. Well, that's okay, not everyone can handle that, but I found it fascinating and I could handle it. Everyone has different interests and some don't want to think about or deal with some of these issues. I'm sure it was extremely difficult for those who work in places like that, but there have to be some benefits too, I bet. My daughter is working as a clerk to a judge, she tells us about some of the cases they hear and they are horrendous, true stories of shattered lives and misery, but she loves being in the courtroom and she's able to do the job which needs to be done. She can balance out her feelings towards the evil that people do and still have empathy for why they make such messes of their lives. She's learning to recognize that you can feel empathy and sorrow but still recognize that sentences must be fair and just when interpreting the law. Despite being exposed to so much ugliness and sorrow in her time in the courtroom, she still loves her job, though I'm certain my Aunt (if she was still living) would have thought it was awful. ;)

[Alaris]

Brlenox, back on page three, you said something very kind to me.

The discussion had slowed and so I was going to not respond, but rather let this thread die, but since it's still going, I will take the opportunity to say 'thanks' I really appreciate your kind remarks and value them.

Brlenox also pointed me in the right direction on Magnesium deficiency for migraines. I had been taking magnesium through the skin to address the deficiency for energy levels and sleep issues, yet I didn't think it could also address my migraines. Brlenox, you are a valuable member of the forums and dedicate a great deal of time to teach and uplift. I hope my sharp words only help elevate rather than dissuade or discourage. I pledge to you I will be less of a snowflake - less easily provoked - and work harder to consider the benefits of direct communication. Thank you for your consideration dear brother.

Alaris

PS This post was saved by the back button - the "post review" that pops up when someone posts subsequently almost thwarted me #-o

[brlenox]

Brlenox, back on page three, you said something very kind to me.

The discussion had slowed and so I was going to not respond, but rather let this thread die, but since it's still going, I will take the opportunity to say 'thanks' I really appreciate your kind remarks and value them.

Brlenox also pointed me in the right direction on Magnesium deficiency for migraines. I had been taking magnesium through the skin to address the deficiency for energy levels and sleep issues, yet I didn't think it could also address my migraines. Brlenox, you are a valuable member of the forums and dedicate a great deal of time to teach and uplift. I hope my sharp words only help elevate rather than dissuade or discourage. I pledge to you I will be less of a snowflake - less easily provoked - and work harder to consider the benefits of direct communication. Thank you for your consideration dear brother.

Alaris

PS This post was saved by the back button - the "post review" that pops up when someone posts subsequently almost thwarted me #-o

I commented earlier in a previous post where I thought your direct responses where far superior to the scripted ones. It is fascinating that in your mind it is being a snowflake to be direct. If so I would rather by far that you should ever be the snowflake when communicating with me rather than whatever the other state of mind you use is called. Sharp words ... ha!, I thought we were just starting to communicate.

Glad to hear the magnesium was helpful for you. If you ever notice it starts to wane in its effectiveness let me know. I have it down to a science for means in which to greatly enhance absorption.

[eddie]

Red, I simply answered a question.

ahh, be careful. You elaborated where none was asked for.

It was a bogo response. Buy one get one free. I thought for sure you'd think you were getting a bonus. What is clear from your response to my group response is that I underestimated your capacity to shovel out a horse stall. , :ymhug: , :)) , =:) , :O3 , ^#(^, :-B , I-) , X( Take your pick on the emoji.

Lol, bogo, that's funny. Not sure what the horsestall means but I'll take the smile emoji.

It means there is a lot of HS, must be a pony in the stall. GOOD ONE BRLENOX!

[Red]

I outright admitted to not being a professional psychologist, please don't forget. You are absolutely right about experiences. A lot of experience, just like you say. We learn from our experiences primarily. It's how it was designed by God. My experience comes from living with a narcissist, that's all I have claimed to know, simple experience. I'm glad we can agree on that at least.

No, I'm afraid I haven't read your stories. It's really ironic, my mother also worked in a max security state prison hospital. She also liked to tell stories of what she experienced in the psyche Ward. I'm afraid I can't stomach the gore. I felt really bad for my mom for having to work there. It was a place mostly absent of the spirit. I was about 14 when she started working there. I would French braid her hair every day before she left for work so that the inmates couldn't grab her hair. I had to get up at 5am to do it, which is two hours earlier than I had to get up for school. I did it for her because I loved her and hated she had to work in such a horrible place. It was the only way I could think of to help her. Just a little bit of kindness. I don't envy your experience in a prison psych ward. I couldn't read stories like those. I couldn't listen to my mother either when she wanted to tell me the stories. I think she did it because it's how she coped with the horror of it. I would only braid her hair, to make up for not being able to listen to her.

I won't give you what you want, Passionflower. I'm sorry.

Admitting you are not a professional goes hand in hand with admitting you don't know a narcissist when you see one. Calling someone a "narcissist" is not like saying someone is tall, short, old or young. It is a term falling under the umbrella of psychiatry, and your use of this word, as well as other like descriptive terms is irresponsible.

I don't have any idea what a prison psyche ward is or a max security state prison hospital. I spent nine months working in a Maximum Security ward in a state run institutional hospital that was no where near a prison. As far as prison life goes, yes there are prisoners kept in a prison max security area who are abusive and dangerous. But those prisoners are not eligible to participate in a psychiatric rehabilitation program. To do so is an earned privilege that can be revoked at any time.

The stories I told are of people I know are dead or who are out in the open on the internet. If your mother really was working on a state run psychiatric ward for the court ordered criminally insane, she would have been breaking the law by going home or anywhere for that matter and telling stories, even if she was a low level worker. She is displaying very unprofessional behaviour, that if I engaged in, my license could have been revoked. Nothing about anyone could be discussed outside the hospital grounds, particularly the criminally insane. No pictures could be taken, No names could be mentioned. And no stories could be told. If your mother didn't like her job, she could go get another one.

You feel sorry for me? This was a very stimulating part of my life and I would not trade it for anything.

And what is it that I want, but you won't give me?

:)) ok

[Alaris]

Brlenox, back on page three, you said something very kind to me.

The discussion had slowed and so I was going to not respond, but rather let this thread die, but since it's still going, I will take the opportunity to say 'thanks' I really appreciate your kind remarks and value them.

Brlenox also pointed me in the right direction on Magnesium deficiency for migraines. I had been taking magnesium through the skin to address the deficiency for energy levels and sleep issues, yet I didn't think it could also address my migraines. Brlenox, you are a valuable member of the forums and dedicate a great deal of time to teach and uplift. I hope my sharp words only help elevate rather than dissuade or discourage. I pledge to you I will be less of a snowflake - less easily provoked - and work harder to consider the benefits of direct communication. Thank you for your consideration dear brother.

Alaris

PS This post was saved by the back button - the "post review" that pops up when someone posts subsequently almost thwarted me #-o

I commented earlier in a previous post where I thought your direct responses where far superior to the scripted ones. It is fascinating that in your mind it is being a snowflake to be direct. If so I would rather by far that you should ever be the snowflake when communicating with me rather than whatever the other state of mind you use is called. Sharp words ... ha!, I thought we were just starting to communicate.

Glad to hear the magnesium was helpful for you. If you ever notice it starts to wane in its effectiveness let me know. I have it down to a science for means in which to greatly enhance absorption.

Thank you! Do you have any info on dosage / how many sprays a day - and are there better places to spray for absorption?