Alaris' Comment - Brotherly Love

[Seek the Truth]

This guy is doing very well in Arizona. Woodchips are the key. These 2 videos will change your life in ways you cannot currently understand.

[brlenox]

Glad to hear the magnesium was helpful for you. If you ever notice it starts to wane in its effectiveness let me know. I have it down to a science for means in which to greatly enhance absorption.

Thank you! Do you have any info on dosage / how many sprays a day - and are there better places to spray for absorption?

Up until a couple of years ago, I used the magnesium oil spray for an emergency approach when it was apparent that I was not absorbing enough from supplementation. I used a spray where 5 squirts was about the equivalent of 1 teaspoon which was 560 mg of magnesium. I would spray it on my stomach area and then place a piece of Saran wrap over it to keep it from evaporating before I got the most absorption I could get. I only had to do this once a day for few days and then stay with my normal supplementation and I would stay ahead of the headaches.

My thought process was (oh no...another attempt at me sharing a thought process...could be trouble.) that since I was still having to monitor my neck tension which precedes the headache by about 2 hours, that meant that I was only absorbing just enough to stay ahead of a diminishment state and that I was not getting ahead to the point where the body had sufficient stores to prevent the headaches at all. For most of the past 6 or seven years that has been the case - but thank goodness for the magnesium working as well as it did as otherwise it would have been 6 or 7 years of those full blown killer headaches which I at least was able to avoid by staying ahead of the tension. However I continued researching and testing ideas on myself to see why my absorption was so poor. Literature tells you magnesium is poorly absorbed but it is as if it is an irreconcilable condition.

The past 6 months I have found that is not true and that I can now take half as much Magnesium as I was and often forget to take more as I never get the neck tension to remind me. Oftimes for several days. This means that I am now able to absorb enough that my body is getting ahead of the game by being able to build up stores that have been destroyed by my health issues.

This is a continual process of improvement that seems to be continuously getting better and better the longer my body has the adequate supply to replenish. The biggest change seems to be the addition of V D 50,000 iu, plus V k2 mk7 and mk4 at 5000 mcg more emphasis on the k2 mk7 as it remains available in the blood for about 3 days which correlates to the length of time that V D remains available in the blood stream. The mk4 is only a 2 to 4 hour presence but it is directly involved in testosterone production which is targeting another issue. The final piece is to ad 60 mg of Zinc to the mix as it is an overall mineral absorption regulator and I add copper 3 mg every few days as Zinc needs it to function but it also depletes it if it is not supplemented. A good b-complex will take care of the several needs as a co - nutrient. If I notice any tension of the other variety, say my back muscles start to hurt severely if I am giving a blessing or something then I bump up calcium supply to a thousand mg which also helps a ton with magnesium but there is so much calcium in our diets that I try to be careful with it. Just for fun ad V A and V E and repair existing Cavities naturally and never see a dentist again. I have 2 substantial cavities that have healed over and never give me any grief. If you can find a toothpaste with nano-hydroxyapitite this really accelerates the remineralization. It is better than fluoride as it is a natural substance the body uses to build bone and it builds a harder bone where fluoride contributes to a brittle bone material.

If you are going to, or have to, move in this direction. Start slowly giving the body a couple of weeks to adjust to the amounts. If your kidneys are healthy and the liver in good shape all of this is handled very well. Doctors get upset over 5000 iu of D a day but the facts are that the body produces roughly 20,000 iu in half an hour between 11 and 2 with arms, neck and head exposure. The upside is that this is not only helping headaches but it protecting against heart issues, type 2 diabetes, and a dozen cancers. There are other things but they rely on being able to recognize various indicators to determine need and sense they are not common if you eat well I won't go into that material.

First of all - thank you very much! :ymhug:

Couple of Qs

1. What is your normal supplementation? Pills? I have been adding a scoop of hemp seed / pumpkin seed to my shakes for magnesium, but I haven't used the spray religiously.
2. Any recommended toothpaste brands? I only got three hits on amazon for nanohydroxyapitite (amazon didn't like the hypen)

1.) I use magnesium taurate from Vitaspace. $36.00 for 2.2 lbs or 1 kilo. I do not know the mag value of Hemp seed (are you smoking this as well?) However Pumpkin is one of the highest food sources I just don't know how much off the top of my head. I agree though that if you can get enough this way - it is the best way. I needed large doses and a pound of pumpkin seeds was more than I could swallow. I let my body tell me how much I need. If a headache is imminent I take about 500 mg. Side effect is that Magnesium excess that is not absorbed will be processed out through the bowels. Up until 6 months ago I could usually handle the 500 mg without any bowel issues , but some days it is like I was absorbing little. It was also harder to get the headaches under control on those days. However now I can take up to 1000 mgs and it all is absorbed an no issues due to the enhanced absorption I am getting. If a bunch is not absorbed it loosens them up. But I preferred that to the headaches. This has been of great benefit for my wife who has not been constipated (a common issue with women) in the 8 years we've been doing this. She does 3 - 250 mg scoops a day spaced out. If you can manage it sometimes a smaller dose every hour is better until the neck tension or headache departs than a big dose for this reason. The M. taurate is very bland and can mix with anything. Another side effect is that the taurine molecule it is attached too can make you drowsy for about 20 minutes if you are sitting. Active you won't even notice.

2.) I use the Japanese Brand Apigard it was 18.00 dollars a tube in a white box with blue letters. I only use about 1/2 pea size making sure to swish it through (kind of like oil pulling)the teeth. I did notice a new brand Prevdent out of the Netherlands and another Regenerate out of England. The Apigard is 18% nanohydroxyapatite, the Regenerate was 15%, and I do not know what the Prevdent was. The Japanese have been using it for many years. Glaxo Kline, I understand bought up the rights to American distribution of the nanohydroxyapatite technology and has stymied efforts to produce an American product because they have investments in traditional dental repair products that dentists use. There may be more traditional issues with FDA approval as well that I have no clue of. That was a couple of years back and I do not know the current state. The original studies were published in the British Journal of Dentistry about 10 years ago if memory serves and the results were exceptionally impressive. I have been very pleased with the product as well.

[larsenb]

. . . . . 2.) I use the Japanese Brand Apigard it was 18.00 dollars a tube in a white box with blue letters. I only use about 1/2 pea size making sure to swish it through (kind of like oil pulling)the teeth. I did notice a new brand Prevdent out of the Netherlands and another Regenerate out of England. The Apigard is 18% nanohydroxyapatite, the Regenerate was 15%, and I do not know what the Prevdent was. The Japanese have been using it for many years. Glaxo Kline, I understand bought up the rights to American distribution of the nanohydroxyapatite technology and has stymied efforts to produce an American product because they have investments in traditional dental repair products that dentists use. There may be more traditional issues with FDA approval as well that I have no clue of. That was a couple of years back and I do not know the current state. The original studies were published in the British Journal of Dentistry about 10 years ago if memory serves and the results were exceptionally impressive. I have been very pleased with the product as well.

In your 8 years of using Apigard, have you noticed an actual reduction and even repair of cavities, and the resulting visits to the dentist and endodontist the cavities could entail?

I tried it for a year and it seemed to have no effect in healing any of the severe dental problems I had a few years ago. Maybe my teeth were too far gone . . . too much continual sucking on Nestle's semi-sweet dark chocolate morsels?? :-s

[brlenox]

. . . . . 2.) I use the Japanese Brand Apigard it was 18.00 dollars a tube in a white box with blue letters. I only use about 1/2 pea size making sure to swish it through (kind of like oil pulling)the teeth. I did notice a new brand Prevdent out of the Netherlands and another Regenerate out of England. The Apigard is 18% nanohydroxyapatite, the Regenerate was 15%, and I do not know what the Prevdent was. The Japanese have been using it for many years. Glaxo Kline, I understand bought up the rights to American distribution of the nanohydroxyapatite technology and has stymied efforts to produce an American product because they have investments in traditional dental repair products that dentists use. There may be more traditional issues with FDA approval as well that I have no clue of. That was a couple of years back and I do not know the current state. The original studies were published in the British Journal of Dentistry about 10 years ago if memory serves and the results were exceptionally impressive. I have been very pleased with the product as well.

In your 8 years of using Apigard, have you noticed an actual reduction and even repair of cavities, and the resulting visits to the dentist and endodontist the cavities could entail?

I tried it for a year and it seemed to have no effect in healing any of the severe dental problems I had a few years ago. Maybe my teeth were too far gone . . . too much continual sucking on Nestle's semi-sweet dark chocolate morsels?? :-s

I haven't been to a dentist in all this time and I have two major areas that were in decay when I started the Apigard. It does not build back perfect teeth it only puts a layer of calcium, magnesium, boron pulled from saliva to repair.

Your issue was quite a bit more advanced than just dental carries but entailed severe dental decay. This also can be repaired but you have to get your body to quit mining your teeth for minerals. The earlier post plan of using the A, D, E, K and then adding the Apigard might have provided you with the necessary material. D is a huge regulator of mineral absorption, and hydroxyapatite is simply the form of calcium the body utilizes to create bone which of course is going to be greatly benefited by the D. The K is the regulator of D and calcium and keeps the calcium in a solution state so that the body does not have issues like hardening of the arteries, or calcium oxalate issues like gall stones, kidney stones, and other forms of calcification with is the root of much organ failure. However, during your time I was not as educated on the imperative of the K for calcium management. However, one of the very best natural sources of K is the Kefir you were consuming,so we probably could have done some good if we had done the full regimen. The body can heal just about anything if you can give it what it needs. That's the hard part is figuring out all of the interdependent nutritional components.

[larsenb]

. . . . . 2.) I use the Japanese Brand Apigard it was 18.00 dollars a tube in a white box with blue letters. I only use about 1/2 pea size making sure to swish it through (kind of like oil pulling)the teeth. I did notice a new brand Prevdent out of the Netherlands and another Regenerate out of England. The Apigard is 18% nanohydroxyapatite, the Regenerate was 15%, and I do not know what the Prevdent was. The Japanese have been using it for many years. Glaxo Kline, I understand bought up the rights to American distribution of the nanohydroxyapatite technology and has stymied efforts to produce an American product because they have investments in traditional dental repair products that dentists use. There may be more traditional issues with FDA approval as well that I have no clue of. That was a couple of years back and I do not know the current state. The original studies were published in the British Journal of Dentistry about 10 years ago if memory serves and the results were exceptionally impressive. I have been very pleased with the product as well.

In your 8 years of using Apigard, have you noticed an actual reduction and even repair of cavities, and the resulting visits to the dentist and endodontist the cavities could entail?

I tried it for a year and it seemed to have no effect in healing any of the severe dental problems I had a few years ago. Maybe my teeth were too far gone . . . too much continual sucking on Nestle's semi-sweet dark chocolate morsels?? :-s

I haven't been to a dentist in all this time and I have two major areas that were in decay when I started the Apigard. It does not build back perfect teeth it only puts a layer of calcium, magnesium, boron pulled from saliva to repair.

Your issue was quite a bit more advanced than just dental carries but entailed severe dental decay. This also can be repaired but you have to get your body to quit mining your teeth for minerals. The earlier post plan of using the A, D, E, K and then adding the Apigard might have provided you with the necessary material. D is a huge regulator of mineral absorption, and hydroxyapatite is simply the form of calcium the body utilizes to create bone which of course is going to be greatly benefited by the D. The K is the regulator of D and calcium and keeps the calcium in a solution state so that the body does not have issues like hardening of the arteries, or calcium oxalate issues like gall stones, kidney stones, and other forms of calcification with is the root of much organ failure. However, during your time I was not as educated on the imperative of the K for calcium management. However, one of the very best natural sources of K is the Kefir you were consuming,so we probably could have done some good if we had done the full regimen. The body can heal just about anything if you can give it what it needs. That's the hard part is figuring out all of the interdependent nutritional components.

Most excellent reply.

What are your sources of A, D, E, and K and how much and how frequent do you ingest them?

[Jonesy]

Most excellent reply.

What are your sources of A, D, E, and K and how much and how frequent do you ingest them?

I'm lost with all these random letters. I'm assuming we're talking about vitamin A, D, etc.?

[brlenox]

Most excellent reply.

What are your sources of A, D, E, and K and how much and how frequent do you ingest them?

I'm lost with all these random letters. I'm assuming we're talking about vitamin A, D, etc.?

Yes, your assumption is correct....I apologize I am writing a lot , fast so cutting corners which I don't usually do.

[brlenox]

. . . . . 2.) I use the Japanese Brand Apigard it was 18.00 dollars a tube in a white box with blue letters. I only use about 1/2 pea size making sure to swish it through (kind of like oil pulling)the teeth. I did notice a new brand Prevdent out of the Netherlands and another Regenerate out of England. The Apigard is 18% nanohydroxyapatite, the Regenerate was 15%, and I do not know what the Prevdent was. The Japanese have been using it for many years. Glaxo Kline, I understand bought up the rights to American distribution of the nanohydroxyapatite technology and has stymied efforts to produce an American product because they have investments in traditional dental repair products that dentists use. There may be more traditional issues with FDA approval as well that I have no clue of. That was a couple of years back and I do not know the current state. The original studies were published in the British Journal of Dentistry about 10 years ago if memory serves and the results were exceptionally impressive. I have been very pleased with the product as well.

In your 8 years of using Apigard, have you noticed an actual reduction and even repair of cavities, and the resulting visits to the dentist and endodontist the cavities could entail?

I tried it for a year and it seemed to have no effect in healing any of the severe dental problems I had a few years ago. Maybe my teeth were too far gone . . . too much continual sucking on Nestle's semi-sweet dark chocolate morsels?? :-s

I haven't been to a dentist in all this time and I have two major areas that were in decay when I started the Apigard. It does not build back perfect teeth it only puts a layer of calcium, magnesium, boron pulled from saliva to repair.

Your issue was quite a bit more advanced than just dental carries but entailed severe dental decay. This also can be repaired but you have to get your body to quit mining your teeth for minerals. The earlier post plan of using the A, D, E, K and then adding the Apigard might have provided you with the necessary material. D is a huge regulator of mineral absorption, and hydroxyapatite is simply the form of calcium the body utilizes to create bone which of course is going to be greatly benefited by the D. The K is the regulator of D and calcium and keeps the calcium in a solution state so that the body does not have issues like hardening of the arteries, or calcium oxalate issues like gall stones, kidney stones, and other forms of calcification with is the root of much organ failure. However, during your time I was not as educated on the imperative of the K for calcium management. However, one of the very best natural sources of K is the Kefir you were consuming,so we probably could have done some good if we had done the full regimen. The body can heal just about anything if you can give it what it needs. That's the hard part is figuring out all of the interdependent nutritional components.

Most excellent reply.

What are your sources of A, D, E, and K and how much and how frequent do you ingest them?

First off it is best if the sources use natural components. The reason some many studies these days undermine vitamin supplementation is the scientific community prefers to treat man made forms as if they are the equivalent of natural forms and it just ain't so. Vitamin a is pretty inexpensive so I make no effort for prices sake. There is quite a debate over animal sources called retinoids and vegetable sources such as the beta's ie. beta-carotene. However now they are finding that ther are a myriad variety of different carotenoids that my need to be treated as a complex to get best benefit. Nonetheless, the science is not settled on the matter. I have chosen the fish oil sources as that was the source in the populations where the studies where done about the bodies ability to heal as long as the fat soluble vitamins are in abundant supply. A, D, E, and K are all fat soluble.

D I get as calciferol that I get in bulk from Vita Space. A kilo for around 80 I think. However it has to be consumed within 2 years or so unless you store it in the freezer. E from Vitacost and because selenium is an antioxidant for E I often get them combined since I take so much Iodine which needs selenium. They have a house brand that is not as bad as some. K I get in powder form from Vita space small amounts go a long ways but also cost around 80 bucks for around a 2 year supply. Of course K is naturally found in fermented foods, nato being the very highest source. So hang with the daily kefir and you will be well covered. some is formed in healthy digestive tracks which are fermenting properly but because of antibiotics that is a bit hit and miss or certainly harder to measure.

[Alaris]

I take kefir nearly daily though I didn't realize it was a source of K.

[brlenox]

I take kefir nearly daily though I didn't realize it was a source of K.

It is a good source, I do not have the information off of the top of my head but I may try to look in my research material. It is important to make sure it is enough. One should never take any calcium or D without it as that is where the troubles begin.

[Seek the Truth]

I do
arugula
cilantro
spinach
kale
lolla rossa lettuce
broccoli
asparagus
strawberries
raspberries
beets
carrots
turnips
squash
potatoes
apples
plums

With more to come. Organically grown no chemical fertilizers or sprays. No till, no water, no weed, no work just woodchip/mulch coverings

[Thinker]

What's that scripture sbout a castle - I mean mote- in one's own eye? :ymhug:

I'm in the process of dealing with my mote - through correcting cognitive distortions and healing life traps. I realize sometimes I'm too quick to blame someone rather than try to understand where they are coming from and to empathize with & validate them.

Surely, there's a time to be blunt - and I believe strongly in defending truth when it may help prevent or reduce suffering. But I realize that often when I've been blunt, it wasn't ready to be heard. And rudeness tends to turn people away especially if they felt upset by it. Even if it's illogical emotional reasoning- it's a common human experience.

Emotional reasoning is a common tactic of the left & after listening to Shapiro's suggesting give them a taste of their own medicine- I tried it & it can be effective if they (as many do) lack knowledge of logical fallacies. Still, the moment someone calls someone a name or puts them down, to me it is an indication that they have nothing better to state & thus they project how they feel threatened - they loose credibility.

I can't really discern who you are talking to in your post. Please take no concern for offending me as it is just not in my nature. But if you are referencing anything I have said then feel free to tie it to me and then I can give it proper consideration. If you are not talking to me at all then that is dandy as well.

Thanks for your consideration. I was mostly just stating my thoughts and observations, but your comments did stir some of them up.
At times, your ad hominem attacks have reminded me a bit of some tactics I've seen from the left - a type of emotional reasoning - as if to say, "I don't know how to refute this so I'll just do all I can to make you look bad." I suppose it's also a bit of appeal to authority - suggesting that a discussion is more concerned with who people are rather than what is being discussed. Really, I believe it's what's being discussed - if we're focusing on logic. But if I want to focus on really connecting and loving as ideal, I'd also consider that each person is a child of God - of incredible worth. Of course, it's not easy & I haven't mastered this either - especially when people tell me or do things that upset me and my emotions get the best of me.

[Alaris]

I take kefir nearly daily though I didn't realize it was a source of K.

It is a good source, I do not have the information off of the top of my head but I may try to look in my research material. It is important to make sure it is enough. One should never take any calcium or D without it as that is where the troubles begin.

I did extra pumpkin seeds in my kefir shake last night and feel pretty amazing today .... Thank you sir! I'll review the vitamins and toothpaste information you shared with my wife, as we are fairly gung ho about this stuff.

[brlenox]

What's that scripture sbout a castle - I mean mote- in one's own eye? :ymhug:

I'm in the process of dealing with my mote - through correcting cognitive distortions and healing life traps. I realize sometimes I'm too quick to blame someone rather than try to understand where they are coming from and to empathize with & validate them.

Surely, there's a time to be blunt - and I believe strongly in defending truth when it may help prevent or reduce suffering. But I realize that often when I've been blunt, it wasn't ready to be heard. And rudeness tends to turn people away especially if they felt upset by it. Even if it's illogical emotional reasoning- it's a common human experience.

Emotional reasoning is a common tactic of the left & after listening to Shapiro's suggesting give them a taste of their own medicine- I tried it & it can be effective if they (as many do) lack knowledge of logical fallacies. Still, the moment someone calls someone a name or puts them down, to me it is an indication that they have nothing better to state & thus they project how they feel threatened - they loose credibility.

I can't really discern who you are talking to in your post. Please take no concern for offending me as it is just not in my nature. But if you are referencing anything I have said then feel free to tie it to me and then I can give it proper consideration. If you are not talking to me at all then that is dandy as well.

Thanks for your consideration. I was mostly just stating my thoughts and observations, but your comments did stir some of them up.
At times, your ad hominem attacks have reminded me a bit of some tactics I've seen from the left - a type of emotional reasoning - as if to say, "I don't know how to refute this so I'll just do all I can to make you look bad." I suppose it's also a bit of appeal to authority - suggesting that a discussion is more concerned with who people are rather than what is being discussed. Really, I believe it's what's being discussed - if we're focusing on logic. But if I want to focus on really connecting and loving as ideal, I'd also consider that each person is a child of God - of incredible worth. Of course, it's not easy & I haven't mastered this either - especially when people tell me or do things that upset me and my emotions get the best of me.

Thank you for your explanations although I believe it a challenge to draw many analogies between my deportment and anything like that of anyone on the left as you characterize it. As well it is generally in the face of refuting and making a good case of it that all of the sudden I am made the object of an alternative perspective as if to draw away from the points I have made. Nonetheless, for you, it is as you see it and we must be content that that is as it will remain.

Thanks again for elaboration.

[Red]

Brlenox, back on page three, you said something very kind to me.

The discussion had slowed and so I was going to not respond, but rather let this thread die, but since it's still going, I will take the opportunity to say 'thanks' I really appreciate your kind remarks and value them.

Brlenox also pointed me in the right direction on Magnesium deficiency for migraines. I had been taking magnesium through the skin to address the deficiency for energy levels and sleep issues, yet I didn't think it could also address my migraines. Brlenox, you are a valuable member of the forums and dedicate a great deal of time to teach and uplift. I hope my sharp words only help elevate rather than dissuade or discourage. I pledge to you I will be less of a snowflake - less easily provoked - and work harder to consider the benefits of direct communication. Thank you for your consideration dear brother.

Alaris

PS This post was saved by the back button - the "post review" that pops up when someone posts subsequently almost thwarted me #-o

I commented earlier in a previous post where I thought your direct responses where far superior to the scripted ones. It is fascinating that in your mind it is being a snowflake to be direct. If so I would rather by far that you should ever be the snowflake when communicating with me rather than whatever the other state of mind you use is called. Sharp words ... ha!, I thought we were just starting to communicate.

Glad to hear the magnesium was helpful for you. If you ever notice it starts to wane in its effectiveness let me know. I have it down to a science for means in which to greatly enhance absorption.

how do you know if you're taking too much magnesium?

[brlenox]

Brlenox, back on page three, you said something very kind to me.

The discussion had slowed and so I was going to not respond, but rather let this thread die, but since it's still going, I will take the opportunity to say 'thanks' I really appreciate your kind remarks and value them.

Brlenox also pointed me in the right direction on Magnesium deficiency for migraines. I had been taking magnesium through the skin to address the deficiency for energy levels and sleep issues, yet I didn't think it could also address my migraines. Brlenox, you are a valuable member of the forums and dedicate a great deal of time to teach and uplift. I hope my sharp words only help elevate rather than dissuade or discourage. I pledge to you I will be less of a snowflake - less easily provoked - and work harder to consider the benefits of direct communication. Thank you for your consideration dear brother.

Alaris

PS This post was saved by the back button - the "post review" that pops up when someone posts subsequently almost thwarted me #-o

I commented earlier in a previous post where I thought your direct responses where far superior to the scripted ones. It is fascinating that in your mind it is being a snowflake to be direct. If so I would rather by far that you should ever be the snowflake when communicating with me rather than whatever the other state of mind you use is called. Sharp words ... ha!, I thought we were just starting to communicate.

Glad to hear the magnesium was helpful for you. If you ever notice it starts to wane in its effectiveness let me know. I have it down to a science for means in which to greatly enhance absorption.

how do you know if you're taking too much magnesium?

Whatever your body does not absorb is removed through the bowels. Too much = diarrhea. That is the short term indicator. However this is greatly affected by the quality / absorbability of the product you take. Most cheap supplements try to get away with magnesium oxide which is the poorest form available to be absorbed but it is the cheapest. So a person may not get away with 250 mg in a dose of M. Oxide. However the same person might could absorb up to 750 mg of a magnesium malate or magnesium taurate. Also having all of the nutritional components discussed in the other emails completely alters absorbability. Medications can also interfere with absorption etc.

Otherwise the long term indicators are that it imbalances calcium. Calcium and magnesium are very involved with muscle contraction and relaxation. Sometimes, I will have the muscles in my back painfully tighten up so I will take a dose of calcium to take care of it in about 15 minutes. This could be calcium deficiency, or it could be a bit much magnesium which interrupts calcium absorption IF it gets beyond tolerances. However, true magnesium excess is very hard to achieve unless one has kidney disease as the body is very efficient in using it and dealing with excess.

[Arenera]

Well, who derailed this thread into a nutrient discussion instead of love?

[brlenox]

Well, who derailed this thread into a nutrient discussion instead of love?

My, my it derailed a long time ago away from a thread on love when it became focused on my arrogance, rudeness, bad manners, bluntness, accusations of trying to make people look stupid, scripting my responses to absolve myself of guilt and so on. Nonetheless that does not mean it wasn't fun to participate in the process. Everything was said in such love how could I not appreciate the thoughtfulness.

However that was only 2 people and there were several more comments which I found very supportive and thoughtfully rendered which were from some of the most respectable people on the forum for which I was also very grateful.

So you get to pick which element of derailment you wish to support, or hey we can hang with nutritional information as well. Or even be creative and move for a quadruple derailment with an entirely new subject...it's all good. :ymapplause:

[Thinker]

Thanks for your consideration. I was mostly just stating my thoughts and observations, but your comments did stir some of them up.
At times, your ad hominem attacks have reminded me a bit of some tactics I've seen from the left - a type of emotional reasoning - as if to say, "I don't know how to refute this so I'll just do all I can to make you look bad." I suppose it's also a bit of appeal to authority - suggesting that a discussion is more concerned with who people are rather than what is being discussed. Really, I believe it's what's being discussed - if we're focusing on logic. But if I want to focus on really connecting and loving as ideal, I'd also consider that each person is a child of God - of incredible worth. Of course, it's not easy & I haven't mastered this either - especially when people tell me or do things that upset me and my emotions get the best of me.

Thank you for your explanations although I believe it a challenge to draw many analogies between my deportment and anything like that of anyone on the left as you characterize it. As well it is generally in the face of refuting and making a good case of it that all of the sudden I am made the object of an alternative perspective as if to draw away from the points I have made. Nonetheless, for you, it is as you see it and we must be content that that is as it will remain.

Thanks again for elaboration.

I appreciate your more respectful approach. The way we are discussing now is great! :ymhug:
How I see things are subjective I realize- and what I know about you is very little compared to what I don't know about you.
And I like your avatar - good humor.

[brlenox]

Thanks for your consideration. I was mostly just stating my thoughts and observations, but your comments did stir some of them up.
At times, your ad hominem attacks have reminded me a bit of some tactics I've seen from the left - a type of emotional reasoning - as if to say, "I don't know how to refute this so I'll just do all I can to make you look bad." I suppose it's also a bit of appeal to authority - suggesting that a discussion is more concerned with who people are rather than what is being discussed. Really, I believe it's what's being discussed - if we're focusing on logic. But if I want to focus on really connecting and loving as ideal, I'd also consider that each person is a child of God - of incredible worth. Of course, it's not easy & I haven't mastered this either - especially when people tell me or do things that upset me and my emotions get the best of me.

Thank you for your explanations although I believe it a challenge to draw many analogies between my deportment and anything like that of anyone on the left as you characterize it. As well it is generally in the face of refuting and making a good case of it that all of the sudden I am made the object of an alternative perspective as if to draw away from the points I have made. Nonetheless, for you, it is as you see it and we must be content that that is as it will remain.

Thanks again for elaboration.

I appreciate your more respectful approach. The way we are discussing now is great! :ymhug:
How I see things are subjective I realize- and what I know about you is very little compared to what I don't know about you.
And I like your avatar - good humor.

Fascinating. I am as far as my intent in my post being no more respectful than I ever am. However, you nailed it on the head when you stated that the way you see things is subjective and that is what drove my response. I felt that if I responded to you in my usual fashion of seeking sustainment or seeking to understand your perspective more clearly that you could not provide the depth or sourcing. You are not driven by a need to know correctly you simply are subjective as you have observed. So what I provided was from my perspective a non-response. Something benign, of no particular significance and that's the kind of interaction that you would rather have...something that does not challenge you or make you think in the least. Also, just as polite suggestion, look up ad hominin and get a full sense of what it means. Anyway, I'm glad you felt my approach was more respectful but all of my posts tend to be about the same level of respectful based on my intent.

[Thinker]

You are not driven by a need to know correctly you simply are subjective as you have observed. So what I provided was from my perspective a non-response. Something benign, of no particular significance and that's the kind of interaction that you would rather have...something that does not challenge you or make you think in the least. Also, just as polite suggestion, look up ad hominin and get a full sense of what it means. Anyway, I'm glad you felt my approach was more respectful but all of my posts tend to be about the same level of respectful based on my intent.

Maybe I spoke too soon.
How do you know what I'm driven by? You don't. You engage in a lot of cognitive distortions and logical fallacies, especially ad hominem attack...

"Ad hominem (Latin for "to the man" or "to the person"), short for argumentum ad hominem, is where an argument is rebutted by attacking the character, motive, or other attribute of the person making the argument, or persons associated with the argument, rather than attacking the substance of the argument itself."

When you engage in that - to me, it's like you saying, "I have nothing better to contribute to this conversation, and I feel threatened so I will try to make you look bad." And as a result, it's childish name-calling, rather than productive conversation.

I love to debate, though I'd never want to be a lawyer or anything. I do love for my thoughts to be challenged - but only when it's logical. When someone repeatedly engages in logical fallacy - and doesn't even realize or acknowledge it - it's not fun - it's annoying and counter-productive. Yet, when someone points out any flaws logically, it helps me get closer to truth, so I really appreciate it when that happens.