Lost 116 Pages Found

[davedan]

Were you not aware that we had seer stones in the archives? I thought that was common knowledge. They have lots of things they've collected that would be of interest to us.

There's no question the position of the church has changed over the years to put this information out there, rather than not discussing it. It's the change of leadership, older people dying off and their beliefs dying out. 20 years ago we were regularly cautioned to not read or look at anti mormon stuff--now, I think they figured out that didn't work, there's too much of it and denying it exists didn't help. They come to realize that they should put potentially controversial things out there and give their side. The essays are perfect examples of this change in attitude. I think it's great, but I don't fault the church too much for past policies and positions. They thought what they were doing was right, and maybe it was--for that time period. Now, in this time period, changes needed to be made and they're making them.

And frankly, some members can't handle it. We do need to be careful. Some can have negative reactions and there are many different types of people on different levels of learning and understanding.

I had no idea the stones were in the church archives, or that Joseph Smith had any stones beside the ones from the Urim and Thummim. I anticipated that such stones would be crystal stones, clear as glass, based on Ether 3:1. I had some difficulty with the pictures when they were first released because they didn't look like this. It took some time for me to start seeing the simplistic beauty of the stones.

The seer stones exhibit a banding/ring pattern that looks very much like what is called liesegang banding. Can be very beautiful.

I have wondered if Joseph's seer stone was made from onyx, which is the stone in the breast plate of Aaron representing the tribe of Joseph. Onyx is usually brown with stripes and isn't natively black but commonly and artificially dyed black.

[inho]

I wonder if the rumour about 116 pages could have started from a misunderstanding of actual events: the history department of the church has acquired a newly found fragment of BoM manuscript.

LDS Church acquires fragments of original Book of Mormon manuscript

[Alaris]

Were you not aware that we had seer stones in the archives? I thought that was common knowledge. They have lots of things they've collected that would be of interest to us.

There's no question the position of the church has changed over the years to put this information out there, rather than not discussing it. It's the change of leadership, older people dying off and their beliefs dying out. 20 years ago we were regularly cautioned to not read or look at anti mormon stuff--now, I think they figured out that didn't work, there's too much of it and denying it exists didn't help. They come to realize that they should put potentially controversial things out there and give their side. The essays are perfect examples of this change in attitude. I think it's great, but I don't fault the church too much for past policies and positions. They thought what they were doing was right, and maybe it was--for that time period. Now, in this time period, changes needed to be made and they're making them.

And frankly, some members can't handle it. We do need to be careful. Some can have negative reactions and there are many different types of people on different levels of learning and understanding.

I had no idea the stones were in the church archives, or that Joseph Smith had any stones beside the ones from the Urim and Thummim. I anticipated that such stones would be crystal stones, clear as glass, based on Ether 3:1. I had some difficulty with the pictures when they were first released because they didn't look like this. It took some time for me to start seeing the simplistic beauty of the stones.

The seer stones exhibit a banding/ring pattern that looks very much like what is called liesegang banding. Can be very beautiful.

I have wondered if Joseph's seer stone was made from onyx, which is the stone in the breast plate of Aaron representing the tribe of Joseph. Onyx is usually brown with stripes and isn't natively black but commonly and artificially dyed black.

Joseph had several seer stones but the one unveiled by the church could also be Banded Jasper.

[inho]

If any of you know Bruce Porter, he is the man behind the idea that the Book of Mormon history took place here in the land of the United States. My Brother is in his ward and they talk regularly. Anyway, Bruce told him this week that the lost 116 pages have been found and the church is preparing an announcement in the coming weeks. My first reaction was, I'll believe it when I see it.

Bruce Porter has refuted this. This is a snippet from his blog post:

I am not the original or primary source of any of the information surrounding the supposed finding of the 116 pages, but like all rumors, I have been told that this information is true. I have heard things by some who personally know people that are supposedly involved (so it already third hand) and to answer questions about this topic, I always preface myself that 'I am only relating what I have heard' which means nothing. I want to emphasize again that any and all the information I have related in response to the questions ask me is: that the information is from another source rather than myself, and until an official announcement is made by the Church, everything is just hearsay.

[LukeAir2008]

If any of you know Bruce Porter, he is the man behind the idea that the Book of Mormon history took place here in the land of the United States. My Brother is in his ward and they talk regularly. Anyway, Bruce told him this week that the lost 116 pages have been found and the church is preparing an announcement in the coming weeks. My first reaction was, I'll believe it when I see it.

Brother Porter is connected with the church history department and is given regular assignments to investigate church history related events and material. He is credible.

Has anyone heard anything of this finding and can verify if its true or false?

Actually Bruce Porter isn't the man behind the idea that Book of Mormon history took place in what is presently called the United States. Joseph Smith is the man who revealed that Book of Mormon history took place in the United States.

[larsenb]

If any of you know Bruce Porter, he is the man behind the idea that the Book of Mormon history took place here in the land of the United States. My Brother is in his ward and they talk regularly. Anyway, Bruce told him this week that the lost 116 pages have been found and the church is preparing an announcement in the coming weeks. My first reaction was, I'll believe it when I see it.

Brother Porter is connected with the church history department and is given regular assignments to investigate church history related events and material. He is credible.

Has anyone heard anything of this finding and can verify if its true or false?

Actually Bruce Porter isn't the man behind the idea that Book of Mormon history took place in what is presently called the United States. Joseph Smith is the man who revealed that Book of Mormon history took place in the United States.

Nope. An assertion that is heavily larded with assumptions

Dr. John Lund's book, Joseph Smith and the Geography of the Book of Mormon, stands like a gigantic roadblock between Heartland modelers assumptions about what Joseph Smith said and taught and what he actually believed.

Most of them aren't aware of this, however. They don't seem to understand that they now have to go through and attempt to refute the statistical, etc., study Lund has presented, in order for them to make any headway with their arguments and their assumptions.

[brlenox]

If any of you know Bruce Porter, he is the man behind the idea that the Book of Mormon history took place here in the land of the United States. My Brother is in his ward and they talk regularly. Anyway, Bruce told him this week that the lost 116 pages have been found and the church is preparing an announcement in the coming weeks. My first reaction was, I'll believe it when I see it.

Brother Porter is connected with the church history department and is given regular assignments to investigate church history related events and material. He is credible.

Has anyone heard anything of this finding and can verify if its true or false?

Actually Bruce Porter isn't the man behind the idea that Book of Mormon history took place in what is presently called the United States. Joseph Smith is the man who revealed that Book of Mormon history took place in the United States.

Nope. An assertion that is heavily larded with assumptions

Dr. John Lund's book, Joseph Smith and the Geography of the Book of Mormon, stands like a gigantic roadblock between Heartland modelers assumptions about what Joseph Smith said and taught and what he actually believed.

Most of them aren't aware of this, however. They don't seem to understand that they now have to go through and attempt to refute the statistical, etc., study Lund has presented, in order for them to make any headway with their arguments and their assumptions.

"Larded"...what a wonderfully descriptive word.

[oklds]

https://www.preparingapeople.com/copy-of-events

These folks are claiming Dan Judd, a decendant of Joseph Smith, inherited the 116 pages. See link

I met these people back in June of 2017; they sought me out because of something Br. Littlebear (Ward member) had told them about some papers I had control of. Previous to that, I had never heard of any of them. They invited me to speak at a couple of 'conferences' and someone else offered to pay our expenses to get there. I thought it would be a nice vacation, so I agreed to go. However, I objected to the lies they posted in their advertisements for it, over and over again. When they refused to stop promoting this thing with lies, I withdrew. Over the course of the next two weeks (before this 'conference') 5 other people who had originally been scheduled to speak also withdrew.

I have a facebook page with all of this data freely available. No one seems to want to go there to check this out before they lump me in with these 'foil-hat-people' and tell a pack of lies about me, but here it is anyway: https://www.facebook.com/groups/MORMONBOX/

Some FACTs:

I was not then, and have not now, been paid one cent to appear at this thing, not will I ever accept that. PERIOD.

These papers are not for sale. I understand that they are quite valuable, and that I have legal ownership of them. That means nothing to me. As far as I am concerned, I am in possession of stolen property which will be returned to it's rightful owner as soon as that can be arranged. PERIOD. (Plus, I don't want to have to stand before Almighty God and explain how I spent the money - got enough to answer for already)

I do NOT know if I am a descendant of Joseph Smith, through whatever line. Many people have told me that DNA could prove or disprove this. That is not true. DNA evidence is worthless after 4 generations. That doesn't matter one bit to me anyway: I can prove that I am a direct descendant of Noah himself, but that doesn't make me a sailor. PERIOD.

I have several bundles of papers from the 1820's, which MIGHT be important. My ancestors seemed to think so, but I refuse to even handle them enough to verify that. One of the bundles does contain 116 sheets, but I do not know if these are the 'lost 116 pages'. As my Grand-Mother said, "Just because you put kittens in the oven, that don't make 'em biscuits." PERIOD.

[oklds]

If it's true; I sure hope they are in the hands of a disinterested 3rd party. Like some museum in New York.

No it's something like the guy who found them, they had been in his family locked away or in a safer deposit box and he inherited them or something. He recently joined the church. I think the church is supposedly testing them for authenticity.

I may have the deatails wrong but it's something like that.

No, you pretty much nailed it.

[oklds]

https://www.preparingapeople.com/copy-of-events

These folks are claiming Dan Judd, a decendant of Joseph Smith, inherited the 116 pages. See link

These folks are interested in selling tickets to their 'conferences', and trying to get me to let them have copies of the text (just the content) so they can print their own, "Book of Lehi " That ain't gonna happen. However, I do get tired of being lumped in with these kooks and liars.

[oklds]

https://www.preparingapeople.com/copy-of-events

These folks are claiming Dan Judd, a decendant of Joseph Smith, inherited the 116 pages. See link

There's going to be a conference on the "Book of Lehi." Details at the link above. Look who's on the list of speakers. And who's not.

Preparing A People Conference - Orem, Utah
"Preparing to Receive More of the Book of Mormon
Sat 9 September 2017 9:00 am - 5:00 pm
UVU Special Event Center, Orem-UT.
​
This is an All-day Conference held at the Utah Valley Convention center featuring LDS Speakers, Music, & Video Testimonies.

Speakers include: Dan Judd, Shawn Littlebear, Chad Daybell, Hector Sosa Jr., Pamela Romney Openshaw & more.

They won't be talking about the "Book of Lehi" because they do not have it. I won't be there, and I suggest anyone who bought a ticket to this fiasco thinking I was, should ask for their money back. If you want to read th whole story, I'll try to get it all posted this WE on my facebook page. The price to read that story is quite a bit less than the price to listen to wild conjecture and outright lies: Nothing.

[oklds]

https://www.preparingapeople.com/copy-of-events

These folks are claiming Dan Judd, a decendant of Joseph Smith, inherited the 116 pages. See link

I see.... and for a mere $25/ticket, I too can listen to him tell all about the 116 pages that supposedly the Smith family lost nearly 200 years ago? Not to mention I can meet Chad Daybell and Hector Sosa, notorious NDE and Julie Rowe fans?

Something doesn't smell right.

You're right, and that smell is the smell of BS. I am the one who would know, and I'm telling you right now that there will NOT be any "Book of Lehi" discussion (at least by me).

[oklds]

I shouldn't probably post this online, but I know the name of the man with the 116 pages. His name is Hofmann, Mark Hofmann

No, I just heard that name for the first time two months ago. A more worthless piece of crap I think I've never heard of.

[oklds]

https://www.preparingapeople.com/copy-of-events

These folks are claiming Dan Judd, a decendant of Joseph Smith, inherited the 116 pages. See link

I see.... and for a mere $25/ticket, I too can listen to him tell all about the 116 pages that supposedly the Smith family lost nearly 200 years ago? Not to mention I can meet Chad Daybell and Hector Sosa, notorious NDE and Julie Rowe fans?

Something doesn't smell right.

In the old version of the page (https://www.preparingapeople.com/events), Julie Rowe is listed too.

Sounds like a Hucksters Reunion tour. If this thing turns out to be a fraud, I hope it takes the rest of them down with it.

Ditto!

[oklds]

Another supposed 'faith promoting' rumor, I suspect. And as Silver said, if Bruce Porter has such a great reputation, then why would he be breaking confidences by sharing this info?

I'll just say, when the authentic Ark of the Covenant is found, I'll believe there is a chance the 116 pages could be found.

Please don't blame this Bruce Porter for any of this - he had nothing to do with it. His name was dragged in by these clowns promoting this 'conference' in order to sell more tickets. I doubt he ever heard of this before last month, and I suspect he's more than willing to never hear of it again. I know I am, and I'm the guy that has the papers.

[oklds]

Nourished by the Good Word of God
Daniel K Judd
daniel-k-judd-10.jpg
First Counselor in the Sunday School General Presidency

The brother above is probably not one of the men in the picture with the caption of Dan Judd here: https://www.preparingapeople.com/copy-of-events

Daniel K. Judd's bio seems to indicate that he was born in the church. Some page on the above mention site tells that Dan Judd is a convert. So, they seem to be two different persons. Plus, if Dan Judd had had such a calling, I am sure that preparingapeople.com wuold use that in their advertisement. After all, they do mention that one of the speakers has served as a mission president.

No, that is not the same guy. I have spoken with him regarding this, and we figured out we probably were distant cousins, but not the same person at all. I apologize to him for the headaches this had undoubtedly caused him, although I do not know what I could have done to stop it.

I am sure that if these people thought it would sell more tickets, they be willing to state that my Mother'-in-law's second Cousin's Brother's Grand-Daughter's cat was my actually alien houseguest.

[oklds]

Nourished by the Good Word of God
Daniel K Judd
daniel-k-judd-10.jpg
First Counselor in the Sunday School General Presidency

The brother above is probably not one of the men in the picture with the caption of Dan Judd here: https://www.preparingapeople.com/copy-of-events

Screen Shot 2017-08-24 at 11.27.12 AM.png

Yea looks like a different guy

so when i clicked the link it takes you to http://bookofmormonevidence.org/ lol

Not to mention: what the heck is a "decedent"? #-o
decedent.jpg

Yeah, I noticed that at the time. I don't remember being killed by Joseph Smith, but perhaps that's a future prophecy waiting to be fulfilled. bookofmormonevidence,org is NOT owned or operated by the same people as preparingapeople.com, although they do know each other, and both had time to 'unload' on me when I backed out of their 'conference. The bookofmormonevidence guy is the one that wants a copy of the text so that he can publish his own "Book of Mormon". He feels that that along with the maps would help him 'prove' his pet geographical theories. I don't care - he will get neither of those from me.

[oklds]

If any of you know Bruce Porter, he is the man behind the idea that the Book of Mormon history took place here in the land of the United States. My Brother is in his ward and they talk regularly. Anyway, Bruce told him this week that the lost 116 pages have been found and the church is preparing an announcement in the coming weeks. My first reaction was, I'll believe it when I see it.

Brother Porter is connected with the church history department and is given regular assignments to investigate church history related events and material. He is credible.

Has anyone heard anything of this finding and can verify if its true or false?

Well.. I got emails and other sources that this is true but I can't go any further than that.

Go ahead and post it. At this point it doesn't matter. My anonymity is out the window anyway....

[oklds]

If any of you know Bruce Porter, he is the man behind the idea that the Book of Mormon history took place here in the land of the United States. My Brother is in his ward and they talk regularly. Anyway, Bruce told him this week that the lost 116 pages have been found and the church is preparing an announcement in the coming weeks. My first reaction was, I'll believe it when I see it.

Brother Porter is connected with the church history department and is given regular assignments to investigate church history related events and material. He is credible.

Has anyone heard anything of this finding and can verify if its true or false?

I have those papers. I offered them to the Church a couple of years ago. Bruce Porter has never contacted me in any way, but I do wish people would stop bashing him with bogus innuendo; I doubt he even knows who I am.

[inho]

https://www.preparingapeople.com/copy-of-events

These folks are claiming Dan Judd, a decendant of Joseph Smith, inherited the 116 pages. See link

I met these people back in June of 2017; they sought me out because of something Br. Littlebear (Ward member) had told them about some papers I had control of. Previous to that, I had never heard of any of them. They invited me to speak at a couple of 'conferences' and someone else offered to pay our expenses to get there. I thought it would be a nice vacation, so I agreed to go. However, I objected to the lies they posted in their advertisements for it, over and over again. When they refused to stop promoting this thing with lies, I withdrew. Over the course of the next two weeks (before this 'conference') 5 other people who had originally been scheduled to speak also withdrew.

I have a facebook page with all of this data freely available. No one seems to want to go there to check this out before they lump me in with these 'foil-hat-people' and tell a pack of lies about me, but here it is anyway: https://www.facebook.com/groups/MORMONBOX/

Some FACTs:

I was not then, and have not now, been paid one cent to appear at this thing, not will I ever accept that. PERIOD.

These papers are not for sale. I understand that they are quite valuable, and that I have legal ownership of them. That means nothing to me. As far as I am concerned, I am in possession of stolen property which will be returned to it's rightful owner as soon as that can be arranged. PERIOD. (Plus, I don't want to have to stand before Almighty God and explain how I spent the money - got enough to answer for already)

I do NOT know if I am a descendant of Joseph Smith, through whatever line. Many people have told me that DNA could prove or disprove this. That is not true. DNA evidence is worthless after 4 generations. That doesn't matter one bit to me anyway: I can prove that I am a direct descendant of Noah himself, but that doesn't make me a sailor. PERIOD.

I have several bundles of papers from the 1820's, which MIGHT be important. My ancestors seemed to think so, but I refuse to even handle them enough to verify that. One of the bundles does contain 116 sheets, but I do not know if these are the 'lost 116 pages'. As my Grand-Mother said, "Just because you put kittens in the oven, that don't make 'em biscuits." PERIOD.

Thanks for setting the record straight.

[Teancum]

oklds, Just from reading this thread and seeing your experiences, I would have to say this looks like a shark feeding frenzy. Though I don't know you at all, I still feel a bit concerned that there is more than a potential to get burned, become hardened or resentful, bitter, etc. when dealing with any of this. I just don't want you to get so fed up with it all that you throw your hands up exclaiming, "well if that is the way LDS's act and treat each other, then I don't want to be a part of it" and leave. We are all weak and subject to error.

I do feel that you will likely (if not already) have serious trials because the devil wants to turn this into a circus that will try to discredit, tarnish and if possible destroy the work of God. I hope you are strong enough that you will not let hell nor high water keep you from staying the good person God knows you are.

May God give you his peace and help.

[oklds]

I don't scare easy, and I don't embarrass at all. I will do my duty as I see it.

[BeNotDeceived]

I don't scare easy, and I don't embarrass at all. I will do my duty as I see it.

Curious, if you are in OK, and if you have seen the large coin at the Memorial there?

[oklds]

Large coin? Memorial? I have no idea what you're referring to. Sorry.

[Tbone]

Oklds, would you mind saying what's on your Facebook page. I see it's a closed group. Do you let just anyone join?