Lost 116 Pages Found

[oklds]

https://www.preparingapeople.com/copy-of-events

These folks are claiming Dan Judd, a decendant of Joseph Smith, inherited the 116 pages. See link

...
I have a facebook page with all of this data freely available. No one seems to want to go there to check this out before they lump me in with these 'foil-hat-people' and tell a pack of lies about me, but here it is anyway: https://www.facebook.com/groups/MORMONBOX/
...

Hmmm, a little bit of a red flag would be this statement. It appears the facebook page with the data which is freely available is a closed group. I'm pretty sure plenty want to go there and check it out, but it's closed...

I did NOT claim to be a descendant of Joseph Smith. That's a Family story which I do not repeat, or place credence in. If the story's not true, it's trashing the Grand-Daughter of Joseph Smith. If it is true, it doesn't matter. I do have another ancestor which I can PROVE descent from, who personally saved the lives of every man, woman and child on the face of the planet.

Furthermore, that group was closed so that idiots who were not willing to even tell me who they were, could not give me a bunch of crap about this whole thing. The intro to the group is/was very plain: If I know who you are, I'll approve your access. PERIOD. When I get ready to go check out the illustrated sheets, I will post that as well. And you can still post your 'red flags', since you still won't have access, since you still won't follow directions.

[Tbone]

I haven't listened to this yet, but it looks interesting:

http://interpreterfoundation.org/the-lo ... n-bradley/

In this episode, Brian Hales interviews Don Bradley about his decades-long research into missing parts of Book of Mormon narrative. Ever since he was a youngster, Don’s wondered about the content of the 116 pages of the Book of Lehi transcript that Martin Harris lost in 1828. Most Primary children know the story of how the Lord said “no” three times, but then relented and someone subsequently stole the pages from Martin. God told Joseph not to retranslate that portion of the golden plates so the stories and teachings scribed onto those pages remain lost forever . . . or are they?

Martin Harris initially thought that his wife, Lucy, had taken the manuscript, but unlike a popular rumor, he didn’t think she burned or destroyed it. Then on her deathbed in 1836, she absolutely denied having anything to do with the manuscript theft. She was a devout Quaker— who are supposed to be absolutely honest. It appears Lucy Harris’s deathbed testimony convinced Martin that she had nothing to do with the robbery.

When asked, “Do you think the lost pages might be rediscovered? Don replied: “I sure hope so.” But then he cautioned: “I would think that after 189 years, if it were still out there, it would have surfaced.” Don speculates: “It would be the biggest find ever in Mormon history and one of the biggest finds ever in religious history if that turned up, so I definitely hold out hope that it’s out there.”

One person who believed that it would surface was the Prophet’s father, Joseph Smith Sr. He gave an interview in 1830 in which he said to the interviewer that that manuscript would someday come forth. Don isn’t sure if that was just his opinion or if he was quoting his son Joseph Jr.

Don believes that the number 116 might be far less than the actual total of pages that disappeared. Scholars have known for some time that 116 is the number of pages of the printer’s manuscript that covers the period of the small plates, which is the same span of time as the lost pages. Joseph may have simply borrowed that number rather than having actually counted the pages before releasing them to Martin.

The lost manuscript chronologically covered a full half of Mormon’s total abridgment that started 600 years from Lehi to Christ and ended in 320 AD. The remaining pages starting with Mosiah represent the second half of Mormon’s abridgment and are much greater than 116. Don asks: “Why would the first half be so short?”

Over the past decades, Don sought to discover the missing meanings and narratives of the 116 pages through research. But how does one go about discovering lost words, lost pages, and lost content? He explains there are a couple of ways. There are “internal evidences” like how the “small plates” of 1 Nephi through Omni or Words of Mormon cover the same period as the lost pages. Even though these small plates are rather light on history, they give us at least a thumbnail sketch of what was in the lost 116 pages.

Another internal evidence is comprised of echoes or flashbacks where later Book of Mormon accounts refer back to an earlier narrative that we don’t have. One example of this would be in Mosiah 11 that mentions King Noah building a tower on this hill that was north of the land Shilom, “which had been a resort for the children of Nephi at the time they fled out of the land.” The current Book of Mormon does not mention any details about this “resort” or the time they “fled out of the land,” but it assumes that we already know about this story, indicating that it had been in the part of the Book of Mormon that is now lost.

Don also speaks of “external evidences” like statements or other sources outside of the available text of the Book of Mormon, like Joseph Smith’s earliest revelations. The most obvious of those is in section 10 of the Doctrine and Covenants where it actually says to Joseph Smith, in essence, “You’ll remember that it was said in what you translated before, that the plates of Nephi had a more extensive account of these things referring to the large plates.”

The most significant types of external evidence are direct statements. The only one of these that has been very widely known is by Apostle Franklin D. Richards, who left an account that when he was in Nauvoo, he heard the prophet Joseph Smith explaining to someone how the Book of Mormon could be the stick of Ephraim. His explanation was that it said in the lost pages that although Lehi was a descendant of Manasseh, Ishmael was a descendant of Ephraim.

There are other sources that give more significant details. Sometimes, they supply extra information regarding accounts we already have and sometimes whole narratives are found that we don’t have. While the details can’t always be verified secondarily, they fit hand in glove with what we do know.

For instance, one source tells, “There was a great feast going on in the city of Jerusalem” the night Nephi approached the city seeking the brass plates. It would have been a Jewish festival, which could explain why Laban wore formal dress and was out drinking with “the elders of the Jews.”

Another description mentions how at one point during their travels between Jerusalem and Bountiful, Lehi constructed a tabernacle or portable temple. This sacred space isn’t mentioned in our current Book of Mormon but may have been where Lehi was able to get direction from the Liahona.

Don’s research includes explanations of how the Nephites obtained the “interpreters” that looked like large spectacles (later called Urim and Thummim). The Brother of Jared received them from God, but our current Book of Mormon doesn’t mention that Lehi or Nephi possessed them.

The Book of Omni speaks of Mosiah I, who was King Benjamin’s father, as opposed to Mosiah II, who was Benjamin’s son. At some point this Mosiah I traveled from the land of Lehi to the land of Zarahemla, constructing his own tabernacle somewhere along the way. Under the guidance of the Liahona, Mosiah I is then led to find the interpreters, which had been concealed by the last Jaredite prophet to hold them. Mosiah didn’t know what to do with them so he took them into the tabernacle. There God told him, “Put this object on your face and put your face in an animal skin.” He does and at once reports that he can see anything.

Once Mosiah I arrived in Zarahemla, a Jaredite stone record was brought to him that he interpreted by the “gift and power of God” (Omni 1:20). The interpreters are not mentioned specifically, but this is the same language Joseph Smith used to describe his translation of the Book of Mormon using the seer stones. From that point forward, the Liahona is no longer consulted, perhaps having been supplanted by the interpreters.

Don points out an interesting parallel between Mosiah I, as he used the interpreters by putting them and his face under an animal skin, to Joseph Smith when he started translating the golden plates by putting the interpreters in a hat. Don’s research shows the hat was made of beaver skin, so both seers used animal skins to occlude the light as they sought information from the interpreters.

Even without having the lost 116 manuscript pages in our possession, Don Bradley has shown that much can still be learned through internal and external sources regarding their content. Most Latter-day Saints probably share Don’s hope they might still be discovered. Considering all the work Mormon invested in creating the original engravings, he might be the one most heavily invested (on the other side of the veil) in the hope someone can benefit from those messages sooner rather than later. Until then, we’ll look to Don and researchers like him to help fill in the gaps created by the loss.

Don Bradley completed an internship with the Joseph Smith Papers Project and is graduating with a master’s degree in history at Utah State University.

He was the primary researcher for the Joseph Smith’s Polygamy series by Brian C. Hales. He has published on Joseph Smith and polygamy in the John Whitmer Historical Association series The Persistence of Polygamy and on the Kinderhook plates in Laura Harris Hales’s compilation A Reason for Faith, published by the BYU Religious Studies Center and Deseret Book.

Don is also the author of the forthcoming book The Lost 116 Pages: Rediscovering the Book of Lehi, expected in 2019 from Greg Kofford Books. He is doing further research on the lost 116 pages and welcomes additional information readers may have on the subject. He can be reached at [email protected].

[inho]

I haven't listened to this yet, but it looks interesting:

http://interpreterfoundation.org/the-lo ... n-bradley/

Don Bradley gave a presentation in 2012 Fair Conference:
Piercing the Veil: Temple Worship in the Lost 116 Pages

[Love]

Lds living did story On 116 pages

http://www.ldsliving.com/7-Things-We-No ... on/s/87422


If you ever wondered what was on the lost 116 pg. look at this journal interview of Father Smith by Fayette Lampham? Cool
http://www.olivercowdery.com/smithhome/ ... h1870.htm

[The Airbender]

Just, checking.

These were not the pages we were looking for?

[oklds]

Just, checking.

These were not the pages we were looking for?

Huh? What were you looking for? I think they are the original manuscript of the 116 pages, so-called "Book of Lehi". Everyone seems to have a pet theory about what's in them, and they all got postal when they're proven wrong, or even criticized just a little bit. They have been secured to their rightful owners, and there they shall remain. With the exception of the illustration sheets, which I intend to look into personally in June.

[hotcatsundae]

Just, checking.

These were not the pages we were looking for?

Huh? What were you looking for? I think they are the original manuscript of the 116 pages, so-called "Book of Lehi". Everyone seems to have a pet theory about what's in them, and they all got postal when they're proven wrong, or even criticized just a little bit. They have been secured to their rightful owners, and there they shall remain. With the exception of the illustration sheets, which I intend to look into personally in June.

First off this was a very interesting thread, I made an account to ask you this, do you intend on going to the place in the maps to investigate what is there?!

I am concerned that this could be a bad idea based on what happened to your grandpas friend and his back, maybe a sign that the Lord is protecting those places.

Did you give the rightful owners the maps too?

Thanks for potentially replying to some of this, if you do, if you don’t thats cool.

Garrett Anderson
Curious onlooker, 22 year old reconvert living in the southern Utah Valley.

[oklds]

>> I made an account to ask you this, do you intend on going to the place in the maps to investigate what is there?!

Of course.

>> I am concerned that this could be a bad idea based on what happened to your grandpas friend and his back, maybe a sign that the Lord is protecting those places.

That and his friend dropping dead inside. Probably some sort of gas. But I intent go a lot better equipped than they did.

>> Did you give the rightful owners the maps too?

No. Not until I've looked into it.

[hotcatsundae]

>> I made an account to ask you this, do you intend on going to the place in the maps to investigate what is there?!

Of course.

>> I am concerned that this could be a bad idea based on what happened to your grandpas friend and his back, maybe a sign that the Lord is protecting those places.

That and his friend dropping dead inside. Probably some sort of gas. But I intent go a lot better equipped than they did.

>> Did you give the rightful owners the maps too?

No. Not until I've looked into it.

Okay this is fascinating. Well lets say you make it in safely, well equipped, and you find, i don’t know, the unabridged plates and other “things”. Who would you contact?

What if something happens to you in the place? Would you bequeath the maps to the church?

Also, were the maps labeled as to their contents? You don’t need to answer this one or any of my questions but feel free to.

This is very interesting. If as I assume you are telling the truth, then I am looking forward to seeing the Book of Lehi in the future, and this is an incredible time for the church. And if these are the original 116 pages(or 114) that you have returned to the rightful owners, this makes you a very important person. (Also because you’re a Marine, thank you for your service.)

Pray as to what you should do, of course, I am very happy the documents are in the hands of the rightful owners and this is a very interesting forum thread it’s interesting to be in commenting in. I just got rebaptized and this seems to have a positive effect on my testimony.

[DesertWonderer2]

Just, checking.

These were not the pages we were looking for?

Huh? What were you looking for? I think they are the original manuscript of the 116 pages, so-called "Book of Lehi". Everyone seems to have a pet theory about what's in them, and they all got postal when they're proven wrong, or even criticized just a little bit. They have been secured to their rightful owners, and there they shall remain. With the exception of the illustration sheets, which I intend to look into personally in June.

June?!?! No way would I wait that long to mount that expedition.

Can’t wait to hear more.

[oklds]

>> Okay this is fascinating. Well lets say you make it in safely, well equipped, and you find, i don’t know, the unabridged plates and other “things”. Who would you contact?

My bookie. My lawyer? How do I know? Certainly not any government agency, cause they'd call them historical artifacts and lock them up tight. You gotta remember, I'm about the only one involved that has doubts about this whole thing.

>> What if something happens to you in the place? Would you bequeath the maps to the church?

If something happens to me I won't bequeath them to anybody.

>> Also, were the maps labeled as to their contents? You don’t need to answer this one or any of my questions but feel free to.

I won't

>> This is very interesting. If as I assume you are telling the truth, then I am looking forward to seeing the Book of Lehi in the future, and this is an incredible time for the church. And if these are the original 116 pages(or 114) that you have returned to the rightful owners, this makes you a very important person. (Also because you’re a Marine, thank you for your service.)

I am not lying, but that doesn't mean it's the truth. You gotta remember, I have no way of knowing those sheets are genuine, except for the opinion of a dead guy I never met. I have no idea if those illustrations are maps or not. I think they are, my Great-GrandFather thought they were. I do not know. That's why I'm gonna go look as soon as I can. I don't put much stock in 200-year old treasure hunts, and I'm certainly not going to put any more of my money into this. As far as possession, they have been secured to their rightful owners, except for the illustrations. If there's something there, then I'll believe it, and I'll let them know.

You're welcome, BTW.

>> Pray as to what you should do, of course, I am very happy the documents are in the hands of the rightful owners and this is a very interesting forum thread it’s interesting to be in commenting in. I just got rebaptized and this seems to have a positive effect on my testimony.

I'm glad to hear that. However, please don't base your belief in Jesus or His Church on my input.

[oklds]

>> June?!?! No way would I wait that long to mount that expidition.

That's cause you're not the one paying for the trip. When you've got those winning lottery numbers for next week, forward them to me, and I'll leave the next day.

[oklds]

If the 116 pages have indeed been found, and will be announced to the general public, and the text shown, the LDS wouldn't use it, for fear of not being able to determine what was altered, and what was original. However, the Snuffer gang would grab at it and have their prophet use his "mighty gifts" to figure out the real wording, and then they'd canonize it as part of their scriptures, and say it was a sign from God that God had forsaken the LDS church and blessed the Snuffer gang, and they'd point to the inability of the LDS leadership to determine the real text, and their reliance upon the scholars to make that determination. (And then they'd stumble even more.)

So many times in the past, not knowing correct LDS terminology has caused me problems. So, at the risk of sounding like an idiot once again, can someone please tell me what the term 'snuffer gang' is referring to? Thanks

[Zathura]

If the 116 pages have indeed been found, and will be announced to the general public, and the text shown, the LDS wouldn't use it, for fear of not being able to determine what was altered, and what was original. However, the Snuffer gang would grab at it and have their prophet use his "mighty gifts" to figure out the real wording, and then they'd canonize it as part of their scriptures, and say it was a sign from God that God had forsaken the LDS church and blessed the Snuffer gang, and they'd point to the inability of the LDS leadership to determine the real text, and their reliance upon the scholars to make that determination. (And then they'd stumble even more.)

So many times in the past, not knowing correct LDS terminology has caused me problems. So, at the risk of sounding like an idiot once again, can someone please tell me what the term 'snuffer gang' is referring to? Thanks

http://puremormonism.blogspot.com/2014/ ... fer_5.html
This kind of summarizes Denver Snuffer.

The post is biased and supports Denver, or sort of supports Denver Snuffer FYI

Long story short, he was excommunicated and others have been excommunicated for reading and believing his work.

so "Snuffer Gang" refers to people who believe Snuffer, or have beliefs that coincide with Denver Snuffers teachings.

[inho]

So many times in the past, not knowing correct LDS terminology has caused me problems. So, at the risk of sounding like an idiot once again, can someone please tell me what the term 'snuffer gang' is referring to? Thanks

Don't worry, you don't sound like an idiot. It might actually be a good thing to not to know anything about 'the snuffer gang'. It is a reference to a small loosely organized splinter group. Denver Snuffer is the name of the central person of the movement. Snuffer was excommunicated from the LDS church in 2013, and after that his followers have formed some kind of network of small groups. They are also called Snufferites or Remnant people.

EDIT: Seems that Stahura was quicker than me to answer.

[oklds]

So many times in the past, not knowing correct LDS terminology has caused me problems. So, at the risk of sounding like an idiot once again, can someone please tell me what the term 'snuffer gang' is referring to? Thanks

Don't worry, you don't sound like an idiot. It might actually be a good thing to not to know anything about 'the snuffer gang'. It is a reference to a small loosely organized splinter group. Denver Snuffer is the name of the central person of the movement. Snuffer was excommunicated from the LDS church in 2013, and after that his followers have formed some kind of network of small groups. They are also called Snufferites or Remnant people.

EDIT: Seems that Stahura was quicker than me to answer.

So, the short version is, "A nut who modified LDS doctrine to suit his liking and got bounced for running his mouth about it."

[inho]

So, the short version is, "A nut who modified LDS doctrine to suit his liking and got bounced for running his mouth about it."

I guess it would be also worth mentioning that even though most members of the church (like you) have never heard of Snuffer, he is frequently discussed in this forum. This is due to the fact that some years ago there were many Snufferites here. Eventually, they were told that this is not a right place to preach their agenda. Most of them left, but there are still some of them here.

[oklds]

So, the short version is, "A nut who modified LDS doctrine to suit his liking and got bounced for running his mouth about it."

I guess it would be also worth mentioning that even though most members of the church (like you) have never heard of Snuffer, he is frequently discussed in this forum. This is due to the fact that some years ago there were many Snufferites here. Eventually, they were told that this is not a right place to preach their agenda. Most of them left, but there are still some of them here.

Yeah, I read through his diatribe. This is like the blind leading the stupid. Thanks!

[Egoof]

June is about over oklds, did you make that trip?

[oklds]

Nope. No money, no time. I'll get around to it, sooner or later.

[mmm..cheese]

I have not read this whole thread... Here is what I think.

The Church has access to the original seer stone for many years before revealing it to the regular membership.
I do not believe an Apostle has said anything to the effect of, "They are not worthy of it."
The Book of Joseph would have contained some interesting stuff - some of which we have already read about in the Book of Mormon.
His coat of many colors had some symbolism. He also would have had a descendent with his same name, Joseph (Smith) who would also be a great prophet. There could have been some other things, like particulars about the story. It is possible that there is nothing that would really change the perspective that we already have too much.

There is definitely some stuff that is in the Church vaults that we do not specifically know about. However, the Church has many enemies and some of the stuff could be viciously attacked if known about and also does not serve any purpose to the Church for it to be revealed. There may possibly be some trusted secrets the Lord has given to the Church to keep secret. Part of the obedience of His servants is keeping those secrets until the Lord wants them known. When you consider the big picture - even the Book of Mormon itself only reveals enough information to us to ensure we can be saved. There are tons of specifics that are left out about the future of mortality and Heaven.

I am just happy that the exaltation doctrine is revealed personally. It is probably easily the most enjoyable thing we will learn in mortality when you think about it. Imagine if it was not revealed.

[mmm..cheese]

Just read "Rough Stone Rolling." It will tell you all kinds of stuff about the history of Joseph Smith. Nothing bad really... just that he also had a human side to him. I like to think of Joseph as a human being. Unlike the way so many speak about the 2nd Jesus Christ "Davidic Servant."
Even if the "title" is attributed to anyone, I think there is far too much Scripture being suggested about this one individual, that it seems more likely that the verses are Messianic, and any application to others Prophets will be applied to several different prophets in different instances. I am like Nephi, I really like plainness. Not things that are hard and confusing to understand. Mysteries are fun... until you are believing something entirely false.

[nzmagpie]

I recall seeing a reference to the so called "lost 116 pages" on an anti Mormon video featuring an old woman named Smith, who had been excommunicated. I never investigated the link because the whole presentation seemed dubious. There could be a fake copy out there, which the church is addressing, a la Mark Hoffman.

[inho]

I recall seeing a reference to the so called "lost 116 pages" on an anti Mormon video featuring an old woman named Smith, who had been excommunicated. I never investigated the link because the whole presentation seemed dubious. There could be a fake copy out there, which the church is addressing, a la Mark Hoffman.

My guess is that you are referring to Ida Smith (direct descendant of Hyrum Smith). She believed Christopher Nemelka who claimed to translate the 116 pages and also the brass plate. He was just a fraud, I think there is a even a video clip where he admits that he that it all was just a con.

[oklds]

I recall seeing a reference to the so called "lost 116 pages" on an anti Mormon video featuring an old woman named Smith, who had been excommunicated. I never investigated the link because the whole presentation seemed dubious. There could be a fake copy out there, which the church is addressing, a la Mark Hoffman.

My guess is that you are referring to Ida Smith (direct descendant of Hyrum Smith). She believed Christopher Nemelka who claimed to translate the 116 pages and also the brass plate. He was just a fraud, I think there is a even a video clip where he admits that he that it all was just a con.

Whether the papers I have are real or not, here's something to think about: It takes a special kind of shitbag to 'create' Holy Scripture for no other reason than to see if people will believe it. (No apologies for the language - this is a case where that adjective is 100% apropos)