Mysteries of the Kingdom

For discussion of political issues in general.
Hidingbehindmyhandle
captain of 100
Posts: 636
Joined: Tue Aug 08, 2017 11:37 am

Re: Mysteries of the Kingdom

Postby Hidingbehindmyhandle » Sat Sep 16, 2017 7:29 pm

sandman45 wrote:
Sat Sep 16, 2017 2:45 pm
LDS Anarchist wrote:
Fri Sep 15, 2017 2:00 pm
freedomforall wrote:
Fri Sep 15, 2017 2:08 am
God The Father is not Adam. How many times must this fact be proven to you?
This is what you two have been arguing about back and forth this whole time? About the Adam-God theory? I thought that theory was put to rest like 50 years ago!
Yea it was but when you start reading more of Joseph's and Brigham writings it shows that both were teaching that Adam was God. Doesn't help when current leaders say contradicting things about earlier leaders too. It's fun to discuss because it was taught quite a bit. There were songs poems articles sermons etc
freedomforall wrote:
Fri Sep 15, 2017 2:08 am
God The Father is not Adam. How many times must this fact be proven to you?
It has never been proven to me. All my many years trying to prove that to myself has failed. So you have not one chance in hell to prove it to me,

And there were two apostles almost excommunicated for teaching against it! But one repented and returned to full fellowship and died in truth. The other was eventually excommunicated.

An interesting note about" Mormon Doctrine". The practice at the time was that the First Presidency Approved the publications of any general authority. But "Mormon Doctrine" was published without that approval. The First Presidency said there is an error on nearly every page. (Ironically, the one thing that brought so much public criticism is actually true.)

It is interesting to me that after the "Manifesto" in 1890, Church leadership, those that openly taught these doctrines, started pulling back. They started saying things like, if it troubles you don't bother with it. Don't concern yourselves with it. etc. I find it interesting that this occurred after the Church rejected an Eternal Truth.

There are some individual General authorities that have rejected these doctrines. But the Majority of The First Pres. And the 12 have not. It has not gone to a vote of the body of the Church as did polygamy. And the original written sources of these doctrines were compiled by and are preserved and were published by the Church.

And these doctrines were restored to us through the same person through which all cannon of scripture were brought forth except the Bible. And he shed some revealing light on that as well. While Joseph said the B. of M. is the most correct book, he did not say that any book was perfect or free of errors. Do you actually think he was unaware of discrepancies between what he taught and the scriptures. I would guess that he was more aware of these discrepancies than anyone today, yet he taught these doctrines to his grave. The King Follet Discourse was his last public speech just weeks before he and his dear brother Hyrum sealed their testimonies with their blood, That means something, it means a lot.

Sponsored Links

Advertisements

Medical Cost Sharing - It's not insurance it's better!

User avatar
freedomforall
Gnolaum ∞
Posts: 16853
Joined: Tue May 11, 2010 10:31 pm
Location: WEST OF THE NEW JERUSALEM

Re: Mysteries of the Kingdom

Postby freedomforall » Sun Sep 17, 2017 3:07 pm

Hidingbehindmyhandle wrote:
Sat Sep 16, 2017 7:29 pm
It has never been proven to me. All my many years trying to prove that to myself has failed. So you have not one chance in hell to prove it to me,
It has been proven, time and again, it's just that some people will argue against the proof until their last breath which doesn't prove anything but a lack of common sense and a denial of what scripture actually states. The JOD and sermons given by early leaders are not scripture, but treated as such because these people having nothing else to use as viable sources will not in any way, shape or form, relent or acknowledge being overtaken with fact or actual truth coming straight from God through prophets in scripture. Their preassigned idols do all the speaking for them, idols that did not teach from scripture, but only spoke what they thought they knew but was never entered into scripture for all to read and decide for themselves. What was taught outside of canon was so contradictory that arguments and varying doctrine ensued causing discord and contention, no less than today, caused by those who think what was taught is fact and worth more than a plug nickle. Weird!
Therefore, there is no reason, whatsoever, to believe the Adam-God theory/doctrine because it is too controversial and out of order to internalize as something viable. So there we have it, folks.

Hidingbehindmyhandle
captain of 100
Posts: 636
Joined: Tue Aug 08, 2017 11:37 am

Re: Mysteries of the Kingdom

Postby Hidingbehindmyhandle » Sun Sep 17, 2017 3:14 pm

freedomforall wrote:
Sun Sep 17, 2017 3:07 pm
Hidingbehindmyhandle wrote:
Sat Sep 16, 2017 7:29 pm
It has never been proven to me. All my many years trying to prove that to myself has failed. So you have not one chance in hell to prove it to me,
It has been proven, time and again, it's just that some people will argue against the proof until their last breath which doesn't prove anything but a lack of common sense and a denial of what scripture actually states. The JOD and sermons given by early leaders are not scripture, but treated as such because these people having nothing else to use as viable sources will not in any way, shape or form, relent or acknowledge being overtaken with fact or actual truth coming straight from God through prophets in scripture. Their preassigned idols do all the speaking for them, idols that did not teach from scripture, but only spoke what they thought they knew but was never entered into scripture for all to read and decide for themselves. What was taught outside of canon was so contradictory that arguments and varying doctrine ensued causing discord and contention, no less than today, caused by those who think what was taught is fact and worth more than a plug nickle. Weird!
Therefore, there is no reason, whatsoever, to believe the Adam-God theory/doctrine because it is too controversial and out of order to internalize as something viable. So there we have it, folks.

And people will continue to stone the prophets.
The documentation of these doctrines were compiled, preserved, and publisher by the Church approved by the First Presidency.
It is recorded history that these were believed and taught by the First Presidency and The Quorum of Apostles.
While some individual General Authorities have spoken against them, the majority of the First Presidency and The Quorum of Apostles have not.
And that issues has never been brought before the body of the Church for sustaining vote.

Hidingbehindmyhandle
captain of 100
Posts: 636
Joined: Tue Aug 08, 2017 11:37 am

Re: Mysteries of the Kingdom

Postby Hidingbehindmyhandle » Sun Sep 17, 2017 3:18 pm

Neither Joseph or Brigham nor Pres. Kimball nor Pres. Hinckley nor
Pres. Monson have said that all the scriptures are perfect, that they have no
errors.

The scriptures are wrong.

Either Adam is not the archangel and did die.
Or Adam is the archangel and did not die.

The disharmony is within the scriptures.
Therefore the scriptures can not be used to resolve it.
Why not turn to the person most responsible for bringing forth all canonized scripture except the Bible.
Wouldn't he clear this up for us. I wouldn't be surprised to find that this very conundrum
is what prompted Joseph's inquiry that lead to the revelations on this subject.
And there it is, he did resolve it for us. He got a revelation on it.
And do you know what he said, he said Adam didn't die.
Well that changes everything doesn't it.
And that is the real problem that is just unacceptable to those that kick against the pricks.
It changes everything and we just can't have that kind of change, can we.

User avatar
freedomforall
Gnolaum ∞
Posts: 16853
Joined: Tue May 11, 2010 10:31 pm
Location: WEST OF THE NEW JERUSALEM

Re: Mysteries of the Kingdom

Postby freedomforall » Sun Sep 17, 2017 3:41 pm

Today, people believing Adam-God teachings are called Fundamentalists because this doctrine is not taught or accepted as orthodox. mainstream Mormonism. And why should it? It contradicts canon of scripture big time. Yet Fundamentalists will argue otherwise until they turn blue. Strange.

Hidingbehindmyhandle
captain of 100
Posts: 636
Joined: Tue Aug 08, 2017 11:37 am

Re: Mysteries of the Kingdom

Postby Hidingbehindmyhandle » Sun Sep 17, 2017 4:03 pm

freedomforall wrote:
Sun Sep 17, 2017 3:41 pm
Today, people believing Adam-God teachings are called Fundamentalists because this doctrine is not taught or accepted as orthodox. mainstream Mormonism. And why should it? It contradicts canon of scripture big time. Yet Fundamentalists will argue otherwise until they turn blue. Strange.
You are the only one I know of that calls those who believe the revelations of Joseph Smith Fundamentalists.
And I will argue for the prophets of the restoration, modern revelation vs errors in ancient scripture any day.

And if anyone is turning blue - and green and gray (maybe even smoke out of ears when this was written)
freedomforall wrote:
Sat Jul 29, 2017 1:47 am
The ADAM-GOD DOCTRINE IS FALSE. NO ARGUMENT NEEDED. NO BAITING REQUIRED. NO AMOUNT OF INSULTS CAN OR WILL CHANGE MY TESTIMONY. PUTTING WORDS IN MY MOUTH WILL ONLY MAKE YOU LOOK BAD. YOUR TACTICS ARE THE VERY SAME AS THE PREVIOUS POSTERS COMING HERE TO START A CONFLICT. FRANKLY, I BELIEVE THIS DOCTRINE TO BE OTHER THAN ORTHODOX LDS BELIEF AND OF A FUNDAMENTALIST POINT OF VIEW. AND, APPARENTLY YOU LACK ENOUGH RESPECT FOR MY POSITION OF HAVING ENOUGH OF THIS TOPIC THAT NOW I FIGURE YOU ARE ONLY HERE TO GET FOLLOWERS, NOT TO ACTUALLY HEAR ARGUMENTS OF DIFFERENCE, FOR YOU HAVE NO INTENTION OF CHANGING YOUR MIND WHATSOEVER, RATHER TO JAM JS AND BY DOWN OUR THROATS, ALL THE WHILE LETTING SCRIPTURE GATHER DUST ON YOUR SHELF.
IF YOU REALLY WANT TO KNOW MY ARGUMENTS, SEARCH THE FORUM. THERE ARE PLENTY. I HAVE NO INCLINATION OF REPEATING MYSELF EVERY TIME A NEW GUY COMES ALONG.
It does not matter that you don't believe. I never wanted your arguments, they are in vain .
And I have no respect for someone that stones the prophets, all 15 of them, Strange.
And no matter how aggressively you attempt to prove the prophets wrong , how loudly you shout
how assertive you get, it does not change history, it does not void revelations, it does not alter truth.
The revelations were recorded, compiled, preserved and published under approval of the First Presidency by the Church.
These are true revelations given to The Prophet of God, Restored to the Prophet of the Restoration.
Prophesied of in ancient times, prepared from the very foundations of the earth
to receive these revelations and many more. It behooves no one to pick and chose revelations.

User avatar
freedomforall
Gnolaum ∞
Posts: 16853
Joined: Tue May 11, 2010 10:31 pm
Location: WEST OF THE NEW JERUSALEM

Re: Mysteries of the Kingdom

Postby freedomforall » Sun Sep 17, 2017 7:15 pm

And they will defend their position with every trick in the book in order to feel justified in promoting their beliefs even if it destroys their soul.

Hidingbehindmyhandle
captain of 100
Posts: 636
Joined: Tue Aug 08, 2017 11:37 am

Re: Mysteries of the Kingdom

Postby Hidingbehindmyhandle » Sun Sep 17, 2017 7:20 pm

freedomforall wrote:
Sun Sep 17, 2017 7:15 pm
And they will defend their position with every trick in the book in order to feel justified in promoting their beliefs even if it destroys their soul.
Here is a trick for you, back in June 18, 1873, Brigham told us about you.
Brigham Young in the Desert News, June 18, 1873 How much unbelief exists in the minds of the Latter-day Saints in regard to one particular doctrine, which I revealed to them, and which God revealed to me-namely that Adam is our father and God...Our Father Adam helped to make this earth, it was created expressly for him and after it was made he and his companions came here. He brought one of his wives with him, and she was called Eve, because she was the first women upon this earth. Our Father Adam is the man who stands at the gate and holds the keys to everlasting life and salvation to all his children who have or who ever will come upon the earth..."well," says one " Why was Adam called Adam"? He was the first man on earth, and its framer and maker. He, with the help of his brethren brought it into existence. Then he said, "I want my children who are in the spirit world to come and live here. I once dwelt upon an earth something like this, in a mortal state. I was faithful, I received my crown and exaltation. I have the privilege of extending my work, and to its increase there will be no end. I want my children that were born to me in the spirit world to come and take tabernacles of flesh, that their spirits may have a house, a tabernacle or a dwelling place as mine has, and where is the mystery?

User avatar
freedomforall
Gnolaum ∞
Posts: 16853
Joined: Tue May 11, 2010 10:31 pm
Location: WEST OF THE NEW JERUSALEM

Re: Mysteries of the Kingdom

Postby freedomforall » Sun Sep 17, 2017 8:06 pm

It has been declared by the forum owner truth will stand out and prevail...so carry on Adam-God lovers. I will await truth to stand out as predicted. And when it does we'll see what was actual truth and what was merely tolerated and eventually treated as truth so waves will not get too high.
So who has some truth to offer? Or maybe some favorable lies will do. Will the blind lead the blind? Let's see what truths stand out and prevails. Wow, this aught to be one heck of a discussion. Will real and viable truth, please stand up and be recognized?
Last edited by freedomforall on Sun Sep 17, 2017 8:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Hidingbehindmyhandle
captain of 100
Posts: 636
Joined: Tue Aug 08, 2017 11:37 am

Re: Mysteries of the Kingdom

Postby Hidingbehindmyhandle » Sun Sep 17, 2017 8:07 pm

freedomforall wrote:
Sun Sep 17, 2017 8:06 pm
According to the forum owner truth will stand out and prevail...so carry on Adam-God lovers. I will await truth to stand out as predicted. And when it does we'll see what was actual truth and what was merely tolerated and eventually treated as truth so waves will not get too high.
So who has some truth to offer? Or maybe some favorable lies will do. Will the blind lead the blind? Let's see what truths stand out and prevails. Wow, this aught to be one heck of a discussion. Will real and viable truth, please stand up?
And we can now see who the Prophets of the Restoration Lead.

Hidingbehindmyhandle
captain of 100
Posts: 636
Joined: Tue Aug 08, 2017 11:37 am

Re: Mysteries of the Kingdom

Postby Hidingbehindmyhandle » Sun Sep 17, 2017 8:20 pm

freedomforall wrote:
Sun Aug 27, 2017 3:45 am
3) men can't take God's word literally; they just have to argue, complain, wish, rant, argue some more and discuss it relentlessly until everyone is totally exhausted.
I have quoted the writings of Joseph, Brigham, Kimball, etc., the source of Gods word in this dispensation.
I have not said they were wrong. I have not said that those who believe the words of these prophets are delusional.
I have not ranted and raved against them. I have not presented my own unique model of doctrine in disharmony with
these writings. I have accepted and embraced them, and greatly benefited as a result. I have learned plain and
precious things.

Hidingbehindmyhandle
captain of 100
Posts: 636
Joined: Tue Aug 08, 2017 11:37 am

Re: Mysteries of the Kingdom

Postby Hidingbehindmyhandle » Mon Sep 18, 2017 9:17 am

Here is a mystery for you...
D&C 135:3 Joseph Smith, the Prophet and Seer of the Lord, has done more, save Jesus only, for the salvation of men in this world, than any other man that ever lived in it. In the short space of twenty years, he has brought forth the Book of Mormon, which he translated by the gift and power of God, and has been the means of publishing it on two continents; has sent the fulness of the everlasting gospel, which it contained, to the four quarters of the earth; has brought forth the revelations and commandments which compose this book of Doctrine and Covenants, and many other wise documents and instructions for the benefit of the children of men; gathered many thousands of the Latter-day Saints, founded a great city, and left a fame and name that cannot be slain. He lived great, and he died great in the eyes of God and his people; and like most of the Lord’s anointed in ancient times, has sealed his mission and his works with his own blood; and so has his brother Hyrum. In life they were not divided, and in death they were not separated!
"Would to God, brethren, I could tell you who I am! Would to God I could tell you what I know! But you would call it blasphemy, and there are men on this stand who would want to take my life" (Joseph Smith; Life of Heber C. Kimball, p.33).
“The Holy Ghost is now in a state of probation which if he should perform in righteousness he may pass through the same or a similar course of things that the Son has.” (Joseph Smith, The Words of Joseph Smith, p. 245; Sabbath address, Nauvoo, 27 August 1843. Reported by Franklin D. Richards.)
"Joseph Smith has done more, save Jesus only" - Joseph Smith, second to Christ?
What is Joseph saying in these two quotes?
What does this mean?

User avatar
James-T-Prout
captain of 50
Posts: 74
Joined: Fri Jun 16, 2017 5:12 pm
Contact:

Re: Mysteries of the Kingdom

Postby James-T-Prout » Mon Sep 18, 2017 3:02 pm

Doug wrote:
Wed Jul 26, 2017 6:19 pm
I'm just wondering what you think about the "Mysteries of the Kingdom"?
Should we seek to know them? If we should learn of them, why are they hidden?
Should we just leave them alone? After all, they are mysteries for a reason.
What do the scriptures say about the mysteries?
What do the prophets say about the mysteries?
What do you think about the mysteries?
Have you found any mysteries?
Are you seeking the mysteries?
Or are they for others to seek? If I needed to know them, God would have told me.

What do you think?
Yes indeed. The Mysteries of the Kingdom are there to be had.

There are at least 2 ways to find them. Prayer Questions and Answers, and Scripture Study. These two sources have been the prime sources in my own life.

When I first became a member of the Church, the main source of anything new was the Scriptures. But, then I started to pray with "yes" and "no" questions. And more information flowed to me from the Spirit of the Almighty.

But, still it is usually the written word of God that still prompts the questions in the first place.

Here is a Mystery:

I remember, in the winter of Jan 2016 when I linked up that John the Revelator's "Babylon the Great -The Mother of Harlots" was the same as Nephi's "Great and Abominable Church of the Devil"...that this was a mystery that was kept for a long time.

At that point, I had read lots of books on the topic, and it was still troublesome. It wasn't nailed down yet. BUT, going to scriptures themselves cleared up the whole problem.

You see, the Christians of today have had John's Revelation for about 1900 years. Yet, they are no closer to figuring it out than the day it was penned by John himself.

Look at these images that have been drawn up by the regular Christians for that Whore - Babylon the Great that is riding the Scarlet Beast with 7 Heads and 10 Horns (Rev 17). Some of these images date back very far. Some are new.

Image

Image

Image

Image

With such great importance that John was specifically shown this Whore sitting on the Scarlet Beast by an angel, we should know precisely what this Whore symbol is. As she is riding/controlling this Scarlet Beast that does much of the damage to the freedoms of the people,...in the Book of Revelation. The Christian population in general will not know what this symbol means, because they don't have the texts to bring this mystery to light.

The mystery of the kingdom as to the unlocking of what this Whore symbol is and how it began was given to Nephi in the Book of Mormon (1st Nephi 10ish-16ish). When I read the scriptures themselves and linked them up, this symbol of the Whore sitting on the Scarlet Beast was well known. It was hard not to know what this Whore Babylon the Great was, is, and will develop into.

The great mystery Babylon the Great was solved because of the additional light and knowledge received in the Book of Mormon.

And from my own research into this matter, The Last Days Timeline becomes clear when we know that Nephi saw when this Whore Church was created. And John sees when this Whore Church is burned and killed by the Scarlet Beast she was riding.

I thank Father every day for being a member of this church. I'm glad the missionaries were led to me, so that I too could learn of the Church of God.
The material above comes from the book I wrote "The Last Days Timeline".

Up-to-date information is found here "What the Scriptures Say About Donald Trump - How Long Will He Last?" http://www.LastDaysTimeline.com/donald-trump

Hidingbehindmyhandle
captain of 100
Posts: 636
Joined: Tue Aug 08, 2017 11:37 am

Re: Mysteries of the Kingdom

Postby Hidingbehindmyhandle » Mon Sep 18, 2017 3:12 pm

James-T-Prout wrote:
Mon Sep 18, 2017 3:02 pm
Doug wrote:
Wed Jul 26, 2017 6:19 pm
I'm just wondering what you think about the "Mysteries of the Kingdom"?
Should we seek to know them? If we should learn of them, why are they hidden?
Should we just leave them alone? After all, they are mysteries for a reason.
What do the scriptures say about the mysteries?
What do the prophets say about the mysteries?
What do you think about the mysteries?
Have you found any mysteries?
Are you seeking the mysteries?
Or are they for others to seek? If I needed to know them, God would have told me.

What do you think?
Yes indeed. The Mysteries of the Kingdom are there to be had.

There are at least 2 ways to find them. Prayer Questions and Answers, and Scripture Study. These two sources have been the prime sources in my own life.

When I first became a member of the Church, the main source of anything new was the Scriptures. But, then I started to pray with "yes" and "no" questions. And more information flowed to me from the Spirit of the Almighty.

But, still it is usually the written word of God that still prompts the questions in the first place.

Here is a Mystery:

I remember, in the winter of Jan 2016 when I linked up that John the Revelator's "Babylon the Great -The Mother of Harlots" was the same as Nephi's "Great and Abominable Church of the Devil"...that this was a mystery that was kept for a long time.

At that point, I had read lots of books on the topic, and it was still troublesome. It wasn't nailed down yet. BUT, going to scriptures themselves cleared up the whole problem.

You see, the Christians of today have had John's Revelation for about 1900 years. Yet, they are no closer to figuring it out than the day it was penned by John himself.

Look at these images that have been drawn up by the regular Christians for that Whore - Babylon the Great that is riding the Scarlet Beast with 7 Heads and 10 Horns (Rev 17). Some of these images date back very far. Some are new.

With such great importance that John was specifically shown this Whore sitting on the Scarlet Beast by an angel, we should know precisely what this Whore symbol is. As she is riding/controlling this Scarlet Beast that does much of the damage to the freedoms of the people,...in the Book of Revelation. The Christian population in general will not know what this symbol means, because they don't have the texts to bring this mystery to light.

The mystery of the kingdom as to the unlocking of what this Whore symbol is and how it began was given to Nephi in the Book of Mormon (1st Nephi 10ish-16ish). When I read the scriptures themselves and linked them up, this symbol of the Whore sitting on the Scarlet Beast was well known. It was hard not to know what this Whore Babylon the Great was, is, and will develop into.

The great mystery Babylon the Great was solved because of the additional light and knowledge received in the Book of Mormon.

And from my own research into this matter, The Last Days Timeline becomes clear when we know that Nephi saw when this Whore Church was created. And John sees when this Whore Church is burned and killed by the Scarlet Beast she was riding.

I thank Father every day for being a member of this church. I'm glad the missionaries were led to me, so that I too could learn of the Church of God.
Yes, I agree, The Book of Mormon included many plain and precious truths lost from the Bible. And there are many more plain and precious truths not contained within the as the writers were often "constrained". However, many things were revealed by the prophets of the restoration and are available to us. And your council to seek the spirit through prayer is wise no matter the source, ancient writings, more modern writings, writings of the current day, ...

User avatar
freedomforall
Gnolaum ∞
Posts: 16853
Joined: Tue May 11, 2010 10:31 pm
Location: WEST OF THE NEW JERUSALEM

Re: Mysteries of the Kingdom

Postby freedomforall » Mon Sep 18, 2017 8:39 pm

Great and Abominable Church of the Devil = the Whore of all the earth.

1 Nephi 14:
10 And he said unto me: Behold there are save two churches only; the one is the church of the Lamb of God, and the other is the church of the devil; wherefore, whoso belongeth not to the church of the Lamb of God belongeth to that great church, which is the mother of abominations; and she is the whore of all the earth.

11 And it came to pass that I looked and beheld the whore of all the earth, and she sat upon many waters; and she had dominion over all the earth, among all nations, kindreds, tongues, and people.

12 And it came to pass that I beheld the church of the Lamb of God, and its numbers were few, because of the wickedness and abominations of the whore who sat upon many waters; nevertheless, I beheld that the church of the Lamb, who were the saints of God, were also upon all the face of the earth; and their dominions upon the face of the earth were small, because of the wickedness of the great whore whom I saw.

2 Ne. 10:16
16 Wherefore, he that fighteth against Zion, both Jew and Gentile, both bond and free, both male and female, shall perish; for they are they who are the whore of all the earth; for they who are not for me are against me, saith our God.

Hidingbehindmyhandle
captain of 100
Posts: 636
Joined: Tue Aug 08, 2017 11:37 am

Re: Mysteries of the Kingdom

Postby Hidingbehindmyhandle » Mon Sep 18, 2017 10:15 pm

Hidingbehindmyhandle wrote:
Sun Sep 17, 2017 8:20 pm
freedomforall wrote:
Sun Aug 27, 2017 3:45 am
3) men can't take God's word literally; they just have to argue, complain, wish, rant, argue some more and discuss it relentlessly until everyone is totally exhausted.
I have quoted the writings of Joseph, Brigham, Kimball, etc., the source of Gods word in this dispensation.
I have not said they were wrong. I have not said that those who believe the words of these prophets are delusional.
I have not ranted and raved against them. I have not presented my own unique model of doctrine in disharmony with
these writings. I have accepted and embraced them, and greatly benefited as a result. I have learned plain and
precious things.

Hidingbehindmyhandle
captain of 100
Posts: 636
Joined: Tue Aug 08, 2017 11:37 am

Re: Mysteries of the Kingdom

Postby Hidingbehindmyhandle » Wed Sep 20, 2017 3:22 pm

Joseph Smith
“God himself was once as we are now, and is an exalted man, and sits enthroned in yonder heavens! That is the great secret…We have imagined and supposed that God was God from all eternity. I will refute that idea, and take away the veil, so that you may see. These are incomprehensible ideas to some, but they are simple. It is the first principle of the Gospel to know for a certainty the Character of God, and to know that we may converse with him as one man converses with another, and that he was once a man like us; yea, that God himself, the father of us all, dwelt on an earth, the same as Jesus Christ himself did; and I will show it from the Bible…
The scriptures inform us that Jesus said, as the Father hath power in himself, even so hath the son power - to do what? Why what the Father did. The answer is obvious - in a manner to lay down his body and take it up again. Jesus, what are you going to do? To lay down my life as my Father did, and take it up again. Do you believe it? If you do not believe it you do not believe the Bible. The scriptures say it, and I defy all the learning and wisdom and all the combined powers of earth and hell together to refute it.
Here, then, is eternal life - to know the only wise and true God; and you have got to learn how to be gods yourselves, and to be kings and priests to God, the same as all gods have done before you, namely, by going from one small degree to another, and from a small capacity to a great one; from grace to grace, from exaltation to exaltation, until you attain to the resurrection of the dead, and are able to dwell in everlasting burnings, and to sit in glory, as do those who sit enthroned in everlasting power. And, I want you to know that God, in the last days, while certain individuals are proclaiming his name, is not trifling with you or me...
What did Jesus Do? ‘Why I do the things I saw my father do when worlds came rolling into existence, my Father worked out His kingdom with fear and trembling, and I must do the same; and when I get my kingdom, I shall present it to my father so that He may obtain kingdom upon kingdom, an it will exalt Him in glory, He will then take a higher exaltation, and I will take His place, and thereby become exalted myself.’
So that Jesus treads in the tracks of His father, and inherits what God did before; and God is thus glorified and exalted in the salvation and exaltation of all His children. It is plain beyond disputation, and you thus learn the First Principles of the Gospel, about which so much has been said.
When you climb up a ladder, you must begin at the bottom, and ascend step by step, until you arrive at the top…It is not all to be comprehended in this world; it will be a great work to learn our salvation and exaltation even beyond the grave.” (Excerpts from the King Follet Discourse, Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, pg. 345-348)
“And I, John, bear record that I beheld his glory, as the glory of the Only Begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth, even the Spirit of truth, which came and dwelt in the flesh, and dwelt among us. And I, John, saw that he received not of the fullness at the first, but received grace for grace; And he received not of the fullness at first, but continued from grace to grace, until he received a fullness; And thus he was called the Son of God, because he received not of the fullness at the first.” (D&C 93:11-14)
Do you not think that if The Father"was once as we are now"
and he "worked out His kingdom with fear and trembling"
and The Son "must do the same"
that it is any different for us, is it not that we "must do the same".

And what is it that we must do?
Matthew 5:48 48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.
Before the Atonement, only The Father was perfect.
3 Nephi 12:48 48 Therefore I would that ye should be perfect even as I, or your Father who is in heaven is perfect.
After the Atonement, both The Father and The Son are perfect.

So, what must we do to be like them?
The answer is obvious - in a manner to lay down his body and take it up again. Jesus, what are you going to do? To lay down my life as my Father did, and take it up again.
Do you believe it?
If you do not believe it you do not believe the Bible.

Hidingbehindmyhandle
captain of 100
Posts: 636
Joined: Tue Aug 08, 2017 11:37 am

Re: Mysteries of the Kingdom

Postby Hidingbehindmyhandle » Wed Sep 20, 2017 3:40 pm

If you think that the scriptures hold all you need for your exultation, you might want to rethink that.

Brigham Young
“With regard to the ordinances of God, we may remark that we yield obedience to them because he requires it; and every iota of his requirements has a rational philosophy with it. We do not get up things on a hypothesis. That philosophy reaches to all eternity, and is the philosophy that the Latter-day Saints believe in. Every particle of truth that every person has received is a gift of God.
We receive these truths, and go on from glory to glory, from eternal lives to eternal lives, gaining a knowledge of all things, and becoming Gods, even Sons of God. These are the celestial ones. These are they whom the Lord has chosen through their obedience. They have not spurned the truth, when they have heard it. These are they that have not spurned the Gospel, but have acknowledged Jesus and God in their true character; that have acknowledged the angels in their true character. These are they that work for the salvation of the human family.” (Brigham Young, Discourses of Brigham Young, selected and arranged by John A. Widtsoe [Salt Lake City: Deseret Book Co., 1954], 152. JD 19:50)
Maybe your's are, but my scriptures are not infinite in length.
“To finite capacity there is much which appears mysterious in the plan of salvation, and there is an eternity of mystery to be unfolded to us; and when we have lived millions of years in the presence of God and angels, and have associated with heavenly beings, shall we then cease learning? No, or eternity ceases. There is no end. We go from grace to grace, from light to light, from truth to truth.” (JD 6: 344)

User avatar
sandman45
captain of 100
Posts: 671
Joined: Mon Aug 27, 2012 1:38 pm

Re: Mysteries of the Kingdom

Postby sandman45 » Thu Sep 21, 2017 9:12 am

freedomforall wrote:
Sun Sep 17, 2017 3:07 pm
Hidingbehindmyhandle wrote:
Sat Sep 16, 2017 7:29 pm
It has never been proven to me. All my many years trying to prove that to myself has failed. So you have not one chance in hell to prove it to me,
It has been proven, time and again, it's just that some people will argue against the proof until their last breath which doesn't prove anything but a lack of common sense and a denial of what scripture actually states. The JOD and sermons given by early leaders are not scripture, but treated as such because these people having nothing else to use as viable sources will not in any way, shape or form, relent or acknowledge being overtaken with fact or actual truth coming straight from God through prophets in scripture. Their preassigned idols do all the speaking for them, idols that did not teach from scripture, but only spoke what they thought they knew but was never entered into scripture for all to read and decide for themselves. What was taught outside of canon was so contradictory that arguments and varying doctrine ensued causing discord and contention, no less than today, caused by those who think what was taught is fact and worth more than a plug nickle. Weird!
Therefore, there is no reason, whatsoever, to believe the Adam-God theory/doctrine because it is too controversial and out of order to internalize as something viable. So there we have it, folks.
no it hasn't. Just the opinions and their interpretations. and What proof are you talking about? that it was or wasnt taught? or that it was taught and then later leaders said it was false? the real proof would to have an ACTUAL "Thus Saith the LORD" revelation. Brigham Young revealed in in GENERAL CONFERENCE as a revelation and he never once back peddled about what he taught.. he even said Joseph taught it as well.

Yet all the anti Adam God teachings later by the leaders were just press statements or comments over the pulpit in GENERAL CONFERENCE but they didn't say it was a revelation.

Where is the REVELATION that says he is or isnt? better yet let's have an Angel come down and just explain it all away.. but even then it wouldnt be accepted and it would be ridiculed

User avatar
sandman45
captain of 100
Posts: 671
Joined: Mon Aug 27, 2012 1:38 pm

Re: Mysteries of the Kingdom

Postby sandman45 » Thu Sep 21, 2017 9:21 am

Hidingbehindmyhandle wrote:
Mon Sep 18, 2017 9:17 am
Here is a mystery for you...
D&C 135:3 Joseph Smith, the Prophet and Seer of the Lord, has done more, save Jesus only, for the salvation of men in this world, than any other man that ever lived in it. In the short space of twenty years, he has brought forth the Book of Mormon, which he translated by the gift and power of God, and has been the means of publishing it on two continents; has sent the fulness of the everlasting gospel, which it contained, to the four quarters of the earth; has brought forth the revelations and commandments which compose this book of Doctrine and Covenants, and many other wise documents and instructions for the benefit of the children of men; gathered many thousands of the Latter-day Saints, founded a great city, and left a fame and name that cannot be slain. He lived great, and he died great in the eyes of God and his people; and like most of the Lord’s anointed in ancient times, has sealed his mission and his works with his own blood; and so has his brother Hyrum. In life they were not divided, and in death they were not separated!
"Would to God, brethren, I could tell you who I am! Would to God I could tell you what I know! But you would call it blasphemy, and there are men on this stand who would want to take my life" (Joseph Smith; Life of Heber C. Kimball, p.33).
“The Holy Ghost is now in a state of probation which if he should perform in righteousness he may pass through the same or a similar course of things that the Son has.” (Joseph Smith, The Words of Joseph Smith, p. 245; Sabbath address, Nauvoo, 27 August 1843. Reported by Franklin D. Richards.)
"Joseph Smith has done more, save Jesus only" - Joseph Smith, second to Christ?
What is Joseph saying in these two quotes?
What does this mean?
He also says he is the Testator or Witness and hinting that he is that Holy Ghost in probation. I have also had people mention that he was a literal blood descendant of Christ which would have made people want to kill him. That knowledge would imply that Christ was married and had children and even people now days freak out thinking that Christ was married or had children... which he did.. :D
Everlasting covenant was made between three personages before the organization of this earth and relates to their dispensation of things to men on the earth. These personages … are called God the first, the Creator; God the second, the Redeemer; and God the third, the Witness or Testator. - https://www.lds.org/manual/teachings-jo ... 2?lang=eng
This quote also shows that God the First had a dispensation, we know Christ did, and this tells us the witness or testator had one too.. so was Joseph this God the third?

User avatar
Thinker
captain of 1,000
Posts: 3144
Joined: Mon Nov 28, 2011 6:18 pm
Location: The Universe - wherever that is.

Re: Mysteries of the Kingdom

Postby Thinker » Tue Nov 28, 2017 1:40 pm

Hidingbehindmyhandle wrote:
Sun Sep 17, 2017 3:18 pm
The scriptures are wrong.
It depends on which standard of "correct" you're using. Scriptures may be "wrong" historically or scientifically - but is that what they're for? - To teach history or science? If scriptures are attempts at imperfect people to teach spiritual lessons - maybe as with Jesus, "without a parables spake he not unto them." So how can you say, a parable is "wrong"?
Either Adam is not the archangel and did die.
Or Adam is the archangel and did not die.
First off - that's either-or (polarized) logical fallacy. Maybe, as suggested in the temple, Adam is a symbol that represents all men. Men are still alive, though many have and will die. It's not all-or-nothing.
The disharmony is within the scriptures.
Therefore the scriptures can not be used to resolve it.
I agree that for some answers, other sources are needed, besides scriptures, but I see the disharmony not in scriptures as much as the interpretation of them. In fact, this is something to take more seriously than many members do. In a book by lds authors, it was estimated that up to 80% of mental illness is rooted in misunderstandings of religious doctrine.

User avatar
Thinker
captain of 1,000
Posts: 3144
Joined: Mon Nov 28, 2011 6:18 pm
Location: The Universe - wherever that is.

Re: Mysteries of the Kingdom

Postby Thinker » Tue Nov 28, 2017 1:49 pm

Doug wrote:
Wed Jul 26, 2017 6:19 pm
I'm just wondering what you think about the "Mysteries of the Kingdom"?
Should we seek to know them? If we should learn of them, why are they hidden?
Should we just leave them alone? After all, they are mysteries for a reason.

What do you think about the mysteries?
Have you found any mysteries?
Are you seeking the mysteries?
Or are they for others to seek? If I needed to know them, God would have told me.

What do you think?
I believe that seeking to understand God and related mysteries - is imperative to our psychological and spiritual well-being. However, it's also important to humbly realize that in this life, we will never understand everything.

They may be hidden for various reasons - but mostly because we're simply not ready for it. It could be "hidden in plain sight" - we just don't have the understanding to recognize what we see for what it is. In searching - I believe it is essential to harmonize thought/logic and feeling/intuition. Otherwise we could get carried away - putting blind faith in things that we shouldn't... or being paralyzed by skepticism. It's not easy - to really have confidence and faith enough to act on it... while also humbly realizing we might screw up and probably have to course-correct again.

Mysteries I have found are simply new, deeper perspectives or meanings of things. IE: I used to think of the idea of Adam and Eve as literal 1st human beings to live on this earth. But of course, biological findings have discovered that human beings have been around much longer than 4,000 BC (the date suggested that Adam and Even lived). Also, I've come to see that the scriptures are spiritual books - so it's silly to demand them be historically or scientifically factual. The story of Adam and Eve is the story of all of us going from being innocent but kind of naïve - to realizing a new mystery (like being born again and again spiritually) - and at first, it's scary - wandering around in new territory - but eventually we figure it out... only to come up with a new one... over & over - eternal progression.


Return to “General Discussions”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: cappaccio, CelestialAngel, cyclOps, dafty, DesertWonderer2, gclayjr, Mindfields, paid2play, silk and 157 guests