Mysteries of the Kingdom

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Hidingbehindmyhandle
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Re: Mysteries of the Kingdom

Postby Hidingbehindmyhandle » Fri Sep 08, 2017 3:02 am

freedomforall wrote:
Fri Sep 08, 2017 2:36 am
Only in your mind. I don't want people to be taken in by this nonsense. Call me what you will as a devout Christian. It is a lie that there was no first man anywhere.

Moses 1:34
34 And the first man of all men have I called Adam, which is many.

Not many Adams, but many men.

Abr. 1:3
3 It was conferred upon me from the fathers; it came down from the fathers, from the beginning of time, yea, even from the beginning, or before the foundation of the earth, down to the present time, even the right of the firstborn, or the first man, who is Adam, or first father, through the fathers unto me.

D&C 27:11
11 And also with Michael, or Adam, the father of all, the prince of all, the ancient of days;

D&C 76:24
24 That by him, and through him, and of him, the worlds (plural) are and were created, and the inhabitants thereof are begotten sons and daughters unto God.

Adam is the father of all mankind, even other worlds. He is not the Majesty on High or Father God

D&C 138:38
38 Among the great and mighty ones who were assembled in this vast congregation of the righteous were Father Adam, the Ancient of Days and father of all,

Moses 4:26
26 And Adam called his wife’s name Eve, because she was the mother of all living; for thus have I, the Lord God, called the first of all women, which are many.

Moses 6:9
9 In the image of his own body, male and female, created he them, and blessed them, and called their name Adam, in the day when they were created and became living souls in the land upon the footstool of God.

God created many worlds besides this one, yet Adam is the first man

Moses 1:33
33 And worlds without number have I created; and I also created them for mine own purpose; and by the Son I created them, which is mine Only Begotten.

Moses 7:30 (29–31)
29 And Enoch said unto the Lord: How is it that thou canst weep, seeing thou art holy, and from all eternity to all eternity?
30 And were it possible that man could number the particles of the earth, yea, millions of earths like this, it would not be a beginning to the number of thy creations; and thy curtains are stretched out still; and yet thou art there, and thy bosom is there; and also thou art just; thou art merciful and kind forever;
31 And thou hast taken Zion to thine own bosom, from all thy creations, from all eternity to all eternity; and naught but peace, justice, and truth is the habitation of thy throne; and mercy shall go before thy face and have no end; how is it thou canst weep?

There was a first man. So don't call me a liar. Got it?
Like I have said, you mock the prophets.
You call their words nonsense.

All the scriptures you quote apply to this world.
This temporal world had a beginning and as a temporal world will have an ending.
where there is a beginning there is a first and where there is an ending there is a last.

In eternity, there is no beginning and there is no end.
where there is no beginning there is no first and where there is no ending there is no last.

Spirits are co eternal with God, they can not be created and they can not be destroyed.
There was no first Man in eternity, all who exists have always existed and ever will.
"Man is as God once was, God is as Man may become"
Do you believe this?
If you believe that there was a first man in eternity, then you believe that there was a First God in Eternity.
How did he become a God?
He was the first one, who exalted him?
Who was his father to inherit immortality from?
Did he just spontaneously erupt as a God?
Then he did not have to work out his salvation.
If he did not have to work out his salvation, why do we?

Eternity is Eternity, it has no beginning and it has no end.
There has always existed a world populated with man by an Adam and saved by a Christ.
There always will existed a world populated with man by an Adam and saved by a Christ.
To say otherwise is to mock the Eternal Gods.
To say otherwise is to mock the the prophets that reveal the Eternal Gods.

Are you ignorant of this or do you lie?

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Hidingbehindmyhandle
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Re: Mysteries of the Kingdom

Postby Hidingbehindmyhandle » Fri Sep 08, 2017 3:19 am

"President Young said There never was any world created & Peopled Nor ever would be but what would be redeemed by the shedding of the blood of the Savior of the world. If we are Ever Exalted and Crowned in the presence of God we shall become Saviors of a world which we shall create & people. I know why the Blood of Jesus was shed. I know why the blood of Joseph, & Hiram & others was shed and the blood of theirs will be shed. It is all to answer a purpose and has its Effect. Adam made this world and Suffered himself to take a body and subject himself to sin that Redemption & Exaltation might come to a man. Without descending below all things we Cannot ascend above all things. There never will be any Change in the gospel of Salvation, It is an Eternal gospel and the same in all worlds and always will be to the Endless age of eternity. There never was a period but what worlds existed & never will be, they all have the same Gosple & Law of salvation."
-Wilford Woodruff, Waiting For the World’s End, The Dairies of Wilford Woodruff, Edited by Susan Staker, Pg.290

My words are true, I repeat what the Lords anointed has said.

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Re: Mysteries of the Kingdom

Postby Hidingbehindmyhandle » Fri Sep 08, 2017 3:27 am

Hidingbehindmyhandle wrote:
Fri Sep 08, 2017 3:19 am
"President Young said There never was any world created & Peopled Nor ever would be but what would be redeemed by the shedding of the blood of the Savior of the world. If we are Ever Exalted and Crowned in the presence of God we shall become Saviors of a world which we shall create & people. I know why the Blood of Jesus was shed. I know why the blood of Joseph, & Hiram & others was shed and the blood of theirs will be shed. It is all to answer a purpose and has its Effect. Adam made this world and Suffered himself to take a body and subject himself to sin that Redemption & Exaltation might come to a man. Without descending below all things we Cannot ascend above all things. There never will be any Change in the gospel of Salvation, It is an Eternal gospel and the same in all worlds and always will be to the Endless age of eternity. There never was a period but what worlds existed & never will be, they all have the same Gosple & Law of salvation."
-Wilford Woodruff, Waiting For the World’s End, The Dairies of Wilford Woodruff, Edited by Susan Staker, Pg.290

My words are true, I repeat what the Lords anointed has said.
There was no First Man.
There was no First Christ.
There was no First Adam.
There was no First Elohim.
This is the progression of ALL men.
It is no mystery.
It has not been withheld.
Brigham proclaimed it.

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Re: Mysteries of the Kingdom

Postby freedomforall » Fri Sep 08, 2017 4:07 am

Hidingbehindmyhandle wrote:
Fri Sep 08, 2017 3:27 am
Hidingbehindmyhandle wrote:
Fri Sep 08, 2017 3:19 am
"President Young said There never was any world created & Peopled Nor ever would be but what would be redeemed by the shedding of the blood of the Savior of the world. If we are Ever Exalted and Crowned in the presence of God we shall become Saviors of a world which we shall create & people. I know why the Blood of Jesus was shed. I know why the blood of Joseph, & Hiram & others was shed and the blood of theirs will be shed. It is all to answer a purpose and has its Effect. Adam made this world and Suffered himself to take a body and subject himself to sin that Redemption & Exaltation might come to a man. Without descending below all things we Cannot ascend above all things. There never will be any Change in the gospel of Salvation, It is an Eternal gospel and the same in all worlds and always will be to the Endless age of eternity. There never was a period but what worlds existed & never will be, they all have the same Gosple & Law of salvation."
-Wilford Woodruff, Waiting For the World’s End, The Dairies of Wilford Woodruff, Edited by Susan Staker, Pg.290

My words are true, I repeat what the Lords anointed has said.
There was no First Man.
There was no First Christ.
There was no First Adam.
There was no First Elohim.
This is the progression of ALL men.
It is no mystery.
It has not been withheld.
Brigham proclaimed it.
Alma 12:9
9 And now Alma began to expound these things unto him, saying: It is given unto many to know the mysteries of God; nevertheless they are laid under a strict command that they shall not impart only according to the portion of his word which he doth grant unto the children of men, according to the heed and diligence which they give unto him.


This commandment applies to anyone teaching other what what canon reveals to us, even prophets when not speaking as a prophet. Best heed it.

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Re: Mysteries of the Kingdom

Postby freedomforall » Fri Sep 08, 2017 4:18 am

sandman45 wrote:
Wed Sep 06, 2017 12:48 pm
Joseph was wrong? seriously? he SAW visions and had Angels minister to him.. if anything more of the recent leaders are wrong about THEIR interpretation of scripture.
Tell us, was Joseph Smith wrong in declaring himself the only man that has done more in keeping the church together, even more-so than Jesus?

https://carm.org/joseph-smith-boasted

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Re: Mysteries of the Kingdom

Postby Hidingbehindmyhandle » Fri Sep 08, 2017 4:38 am

freedomforall wrote:
Fri Sep 08, 2017 4:07 am
Alma 12:9
9 And now Alma began to expound these things unto him, saying: It is given unto many to know the mysteries of God; nevertheless they are laid under a strict command that they shall not impart only according to the portion of his word which he doth grant unto the children of men, according to the heed and diligence which they give unto him.


This commandment applies to anyone teaching other what what canon reveals to us, even prophets when not speaking as a prophet. Best heed it.
1 Now Alma, seeing that the words of Amulek had silenced Zeezrom, for he beheld that Amulek had caught him in his lying and deceiving to destroy him, and seeing that he began to tremble under a consciousness of his guilt, he opened his mouth and began to speak unto him, and to establish the words of Amulek, and to explain things beyond, or to unfold the scriptures beyond that which Amulek had done.
2 Now the words that Alma spake unto Zeezrom were heard by the people round about; for the multitude was great, and he spake on this wise:
3 Now Zeezrom, seeing that thou hast been taken in thy lying and craftiness, for thou hast not lied unto men only but thou hast lied unto God; for behold, he knows all thy thoughts, and thou seest that thy thoughts are made known unto us by his Spirit;
4 And thou seest that we know that thy plan was a very subtle plan, as to the subtlety of the devil, for to lie and to deceive this people that thou mightest set them against us, to revile us and to cast us out—
5 Now this was a plan of thine adversary, and he hath exercised his power in thee. Now I would that ye should remember that what I say unto thee I say unto all.
6 And behold I say unto you all that this was a snare of the adversary, which he has laid to catch this people, that he might bring you into subjection unto him, that he might encircle you about with his chains, that he might chain you down to everlasting destruction, according to the power of his captivity.
7 Now when Alma had spoken these words, Zeezrom began to tremble more exceedingly, for he was convinced more and more of the power of God; and he was also convinced that Alma and Amulek had a knowledge of him, for he was convinced that they knew the thoughts and intents of his heart; for power was given unto them that they might know of these things according to the spirit of prophecy.
8 And Zeezrom began to inquire of them diligently, that he might know more concerning the kingdom of God. And he said unto Alma: What does this mean which Amulek hath spoken concerning the resurrection of the dead, that all shall rise from the dead, both the just and the unjust, and are brought to stand before God to be judged according to their works?
9 And now Alma began to expound these things unto him, saying: It is given unto many to know the mysteries of God; nevertheless they are laid under a strict command that they shall not impart only according to the portion of his word which he doth grant unto the children of men, according to the heed and diligence which they give unto him.
10 And therefore, he that will harden his heart, the same receiveth the lesser portion of the word; and he that will not harden his heart, to him is given the greater portion of the word, until it is given unto him to know the mysteries of God until he know them in full.
11 And they that will harden their hearts, to them is given the lesser portion of the word until they know nothing concerning his mysteries; and then they are taken captive by the devil, and led by his will down to destruction. Now this is what is meant by the chains of hell.
12 And Amulek hath spoken plainly concerning death, and being raised from this mortality to a state of immortality, and being brought before the bar of God, to be judged according to our works.
13 Then if our hearts have been hardened, yea, if we have hardened our hearts against the word, insomuch that it has not been found in us, then will our state be awful, for then we shall be condemned.
14 For our words will condemn us, yea, all our works will condemn us; we shall not be found spotless; and our thoughts will also condemn us; and in this awful state we shall not dare to look up to our God; and we would fain be glad if we could command the rocks and the mountains to fall upon us to hide us from his presence.
Nowhere does this say anything about "what canon reveals to us",
Verse 9 refers to the things that Zeezrom asked of him.

This is not a mystery revealed to me.
It is an eternal truth revealed to the prophets of the restoration.
To imply that they were told, like Nephi was, not to reveal these truths
is to criticize the Lord's anointed.

There is no mystery here, these are revealed doctrines to be found in black and white for all who chose to see.
They were revealed to the Lord's anointed.
The were published by the Lord's anointed.
They were taught by the Lord's anointed.

To imply that I have revealed something I should not have is to bare false witness against me.
I make no claim what so ever that anything has been revealed to me and not the prophets of God.
To imply such is to bare false witness against me.
To imply that that Brigham revealed something he should not have is to bare false witness against the Lord's anointed.
There is no scripture that condones such behavior, only condemns it.
Your own testimony condemns you.
You would be wise to stop and bring no more condemnation upon your self.
But if you were wise you would never have started.

The whole of this quote from Alma 12 and its warnings apply to you.
Stop hardening your hart to the revealed truths of the Lord's anointed, the prophets of the restoration.
The difference is that Zeezrom recognized the great peril he has placed himself in.
Sadly, you have not. I extort, read Alma 12 and apply it to yourself, take the same steps that Zeezrom started.
10 And therefore, he that will harden his heart, the same receiveth the lesser portion of the word; and he that will not harden his heart, to him is given the greater portion of the word, until it is given unto him to know the mysteries of God until he know them in full.
11 And they that will harden their hearts, to them is given the lesser portion of the word until they know nothing concerning his mysteries; and then they are taken captive by the devil, and led by his will down to destruction. Now this is what is meant by the chains of hell.
The Doctrine of Eternal Lives is "the greater portion of the word".

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Re: Mysteries of the Kingdom

Postby Hidingbehindmyhandle » Fri Sep 08, 2017 11:14 am

I have now been accused of ad hominem twice on this forum.
It is time to clear the air as to what ad hominem really if
ad ho·mi·nem
ˌad ˈhämənəm/
adverb & adjective
adverb: ad hominem; adjective: ad hominem

1.
(of an argument or reaction) directed against a person rather than the position they are maintaining.
"vicious ad hominem attacks"
2.
relating to or associated with a particular person.
"the office was created ad hominem for Fenton"
example:
There is a green light
Fred:"the light is green"
Sam:"the light is green"
Bill:"Fred says the light is red, IS SAM LYING"

This IS ad hominem - what Fred says is based on Bill's person not his position
Fred:"Bill is so full of crap his eyes are brown"

This IS NOT an ad hominem - what Fred says is based on Bill's position not his person
Fred:"I did not say the light is red, Bill is a liar"


I clearly have called someone on this forum a liar based on the position that person took and I have a right to defend what I say.
This example is a similitude of what actually happened. And my response followed the IS NOT similitude.
And if I get banned from this list because of it, I still have my integrity and it will be this forums lose.

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Re: Mysteries of the Kingdom

Postby freedomforall » Fri Sep 08, 2017 12:00 pm

Hidingbehindmyhandle wrote:
Fri Sep 08, 2017 11:14 am
I have now been accused of ad hominem twice on this forum.
It is time to clear the air as to what ad hominem really if
ad ho·mi·nem
ˌad ˈhämənəm/
adverb & adjective
adverb: ad hominem; adjective: ad hominem

1.
(of an argument or reaction) directed against a person rather than the position they are maintaining.
"vicious ad hominem attacks"
2.
relating to or associated with a particular person.
"the office was created ad hominem for Fenton"
example:
There is a green light
Fred:"the light is green"
Sam:"the light is green"
Bill:"Fred says the light is red, IS SAM LYING"

This IS ad hominem - what Fred says is based on Bill's person not his position
Fred:"Bill is so full of crap his eyes are brown"

This IS NOT an ad hominem - what Fred says is based on Bill's position not his person
Fred:"I did not say the light is red, Bill is a liar"


I clearly have called someone on this forum a liar based on the position that person took and I have a right to defend what I say.
This example is a similitude of what actually happened. And my response followed the IS NOT similitude.
And if I get banned from this list because of it, I still have my integrity and it will be this forums lose.
Jake: "I have my integrity"
Jose: "I have my integrity"
Jake: "My integrity is more important than yours because what I say is of a greater value"
Jose: "So what I have to say is of no value to anyone, based on your word alone?
Jake: "What I have to say supersedes what you say and must be heard on the whole forum or they will lose out on getting 'my' message."
Jose: "So all these years of studying and pondering and praying, thus having a different understanding of scripture is inferior to your understanding?"
Jake: "Yes, because you are ignorant and a liar. Don't bug me with your interpretation because I won't accept it, you liar. Brigham Young and Joseph Smith taught what I have learned, which makes today's doctrine insignificant by comparison. What they say...goes, period. And you better forget everything you think you know and learn their message."
Jose: "Isn't this idol worship?"
Jake: :ymblushing: "But.....I still have my integrity to defend."
Jose: "Ya, right!" ^:)^

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Re: Mysteries of the Kingdom

Postby Hidingbehindmyhandle » Fri Sep 08, 2017 12:43 pm

freedomforall wrote:
Fri Sep 08, 2017 12:00 pm
Hidingbehindmyhandle wrote:
Fri Sep 08, 2017 11:14 am
I have now been accused of ad hominem twice on this forum.
It is time to clear the air as to what ad hominem really if
ad ho·mi·nem
ˌad ˈhämənəm/
adverb & adjective
adverb: ad hominem; adjective: ad hominem

1.
(of an argument or reaction) directed against a person rather than the position they are maintaining.
"vicious ad hominem attacks"
2.
relating to or associated with a particular person.
"the office was created ad hominem for Fenton"
example:
There is a green light
Fred:"the light is green"
Sam:"the light is green"
Bill:"Fred says the light is red, IS SAM LYING"

This IS ad hominem - what Fred says is based on Bill's person not his position
Fred:"Bill is so full of crap his eyes are brown"

This IS NOT an ad hominem - what Fred says is based on Bill's position not his person
Fred:"I did not say the light is red, Bill is a liar"


I clearly have called someone on this forum a liar based on the position that person took and I have a right to defend what I say.
This example is a similitude of what actually happened. And my response followed the IS NOT similitude.
And if I get banned from this list because of it, I still have my integrity and it will be this forums lose.
Jake: "I have my integrity"
Jose: "I have my integrity"
Jake: "My integrity is more important than yours because what I say is of a greater value"
Jose: "So what I have to say is of no value to anyone, based on your word alone?
Jake: "What I have to say supersedes what you say and must be heard on the whole forum or they will lose out on getting 'my' message."
Jose: "So all these years of studying and pondering and praying, thus having a different understanding of scripture is inferior to your understanding?"
Jake: "Yes, because you are ignorant and a liar. Don't bug me with your interpretation because I won't accept it, you liar. Brigham Young and Joseph Smith taught what I have learned, which makes today's doctrine insignificant by comparison. What they say...goes, period. And you better forget everything you think you know and learn their message."
Jose: "Isn't this idol worship?"
Jake: :ymblushing:
At least my similitude has some basis in reality.
I have presented what I believe and why I believe it, which is because the prophets have written it.
I have not twisted the meaning of scripture to prove my point.
I have not added meaning to scripture that was not there to prove my point.
I have not miss represented what someone else has said to prove my point.
I have not run to the moderators with false charges of ad hominem attacks.
I have not said "My integrity is more important than yours because what I say is of a greater value"
I have not said "What I have to say supersedes what you say and must be heard on the whole forum or they will lose out on getting 'my' message."
I have said "you are ignorant and a liar." because the facts back that up. Ignorance is only a sin when it is willfull, otherwise it is very easy to cure
I have not said "Don't bug me with your interpretation because I won't accept it" no one is under any obligation to accept anything anyone says.
I Have indeed said "Brigham Young and Joseph Smith taught what I have learned"
I have not said "which makes today's doctrine insignificant by comparison. What they say...goes, period. And you better forget everything you think you know and learn their message."
I am not :ymblushing:
I have said I don't expect anyone to take my word for anything
I have said If you don't believe it, I'm ok with that

If you are claiming that this is a similitude that contains what I've said, it is not true.
So little of your similitude represents what I have said
but so much more of your similitude does not have any resemblance to what I've said.
Therefore I have to assume this similitude is about someone else.
May be you should have quoted that persons post that resemble the similitude.
It might have been more effective.

But I expect that you are inferring that I've actually said all those things.
If you are that would be yet another false witness against me.
Back it up or shut it up.

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Re: Mysteries of the Kingdom

Postby Hidingbehindmyhandle » Fri Sep 08, 2017 2:59 pm

I will show that the cannon of scripture and the teachings of Brigham Young are in harmony
Just to be thorough:
Adam and Michael are the same personage.
D&C 27:11 And also with Michael, or Adam, the father of all, the prince of all, the ancient of days;
And Michael is not "a" but "the" archangel. (only one)
D&C 88:112 And Michael, the seventh angel, even the archangel, shall gather together his armies, even the hosts of heaven.
What is an archangel – the word is prefixed arch-angel
What is the meaning of the root word Arch?
It comes from the GREEK archos. From this basic meaning it is associated with chief or head or king or origin in one way or another. You can make many words with ARCH, from ARCHbishop to ARCHfoe, from ARCHfriend to ARCHilar.
And what is an angel?
D&C 129:1 There are two kinds of beings in heaven, namely: Angels, who are resurrected personages, having bodies of flesh and bones—
Adam, Michael is the Chief/Head/King Angel
or Adam, Michael is the Chief/Head/King resurrected personage, having a body of flesh and bones
Whereas Christ does not yet have a physical body – mortal or immortal
Ether 3:9 And the Lord said unto him: Because of thy faith thou hast seen that I shall take upon me flesh and blood; and never has man come before me with such exceeding faith as thou hast; for were it not so ye could not have seen my finger. Sawest thou more than this?
So who has greater power? Adam or Christ?
that would be Adam.
Is a person of greater power superior or subordinate to one of lesser power
that would be superior
Therefore Adam is superior to Christ.

Back to Michael is the Chief/Head/King resurrected personage, having a body of flesh and bones would make him God the Father.
And looking at “Adam, the father of all” might make sense as the father of all the spirits that come to this world rather that father of all mortals, which he is not.

And all of the above give credibility to
“Adam is Michael the Archangel and he is the Father of Jesus Christ and is our God and Joseph taught this principle.”
(Brigham Young, December 16, 1867, Wilford Woodruff Journal)
At least this teaching of Brigham Young is in complete harmony with the cannon of scripture.
And of course it would.
Joseph Smith taught this to Brigham - “ and Joseph taught this principle”
Joseph Smith translated and brought forth the Book of Mormon
and the D&C is mostly revelations given to Joseph Smith
why would anyone expect anything else?

Anyone can chose to believe it or they can chose to disbelieve it or they can chose to fight against it.
It is your agency, use it wisely.

But if you are going to criticize it be honest as to what is said here and
Back it up or Shut it up

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Re: Mysteries of the Kingdom

Postby Hidingbehindmyhandle » Fri Sep 08, 2017 5:04 pm

Does anyone know what this means, anyone want to discuse it?
D&C 88
27 For notwithstanding they die, they also shall rise again, a spiritual body.
28 They who are of a celestial spirit shall receive the same body which was a natural body; even ye shall receive your bodies, and your glory shall be that glory by which your bodies are quickened.
29 Ye who are quickened by a portion of the celestial glory shall then receive of the same, even a fulness.
30 And they who are quickened by a portion of the terrestrial glory shall then receive of the same, even a fulness.
31 And also they who are quickened by a portion of the telestial glory shall then receive of the same, even a fulness.
32 And they who remain shall also be quickened; nevertheless, they shall return again to their own place, to enjoy that which they are willing to receive, because they were not willing to enjoy that which they might have received.

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Re: Mysteries of the Kingdom

Postby JaredBees » Fri Sep 08, 2017 7:57 pm

Hidingbehindmyhandle wrote:
Fri Sep 08, 2017 5:04 pm
Does anyone know what this means, anyone want to discuse it?
D&C 88
27 For notwithstanding they die, they also shall rise again, a spiritual body.
28 They who are of a celestial spirit shall receive the same body which was a natural body; even ye shall receive your bodies, and your glory shall be that glory by which your bodies are quickened.
29 Ye who are quickened by a portion of the celestial glory shall then receive of the same, even a fulness.
30 And they who are quickened by a portion of the terrestrial glory shall then receive of the same, even a fulness.
31 And also they who are quickened by a portion of the telestial glory shall then receive of the same, even a fulness.
32 And they who remain shall also be quickened; nevertheless, they shall return again to their own place, to enjoy that which they are willing to receive, because they were not willing to enjoy that which they might have received.
Those who receive a portion of celestial glory in this life and will advance to obtain a fullness of that Glory in the next life are those who have their names written in the Lamb's Book of Life / the book of the sanctified and are members of the Church of the first born as a result. Even Those who live Celestial law the law of Jesus Christ and have been given the promise of eternal life-- in this life. Previous to this They met the requirement to abide in terrestrial setting having been Sanctified and quickned in their Inner Man / having been born of God / received the baptism of fire and the Holy Ghost and could as a result sing a song of redeeming love through application of the Lord's atoning sacrifice. Again-- they then move forward with confidence and receive the promise from heed and diligence to the admonition of King Benjamin after this Mighty change of heart and rebirth found in verse 15 of mosiah chapter 5 to then through the grace and will of Jesus to be sealed up / receive their calling and election / promise of eternal life / receive a portion of celestial glory. From there they move forward in faith and righteousness to receive the heavenly gift their calling election made sure / second comforter.

How vital it is for us to understand the significance of not taking lightly This Book of Mormon message / the blueprint for living Celestial law and receiving the opportunity to one day obtain a fullness of celestial Glory. Why this is not taught with clarity and confidence in general conference is bewildering to me. I do not say that to scoff but I genuinely with a hurt heart-- ask that question...

Maybe there's a satisfactory answer out there?

Ps

Extrapolate (to project, extend, or expand (known data or experience) through reading the first verses in D&C 88 to check and see if what I have said is true.
Negative thoughts produce negative words which produces negative actions. Purge the negativity. Dwell in Christ, and reflect his bidding: Moroni 7:45-48.

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Re: Mysteries of the Kingdom

Postby Hidingbehindmyhandle » Fri Sep 08, 2017 8:08 pm

JaredBees,
I like what you wrote, you have read and understood the words pretty well. But what about this part
For notwithstanding they die, they also shall rise again, a spiritual body.
Aren't we taught that resurrection is the spirit reuniting with a physical body?

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Re: Mysteries of the Kingdom

Postby JaredBees » Fri Sep 08, 2017 8:38 pm

Hidingbehindmyhandle wrote:
Fri Sep 08, 2017 8:08 pm
JaredBees,
I like what you wrote, you have read and understood the words pretty well. But what about this part
For notwithstanding they die, they also shall rise again, a spiritual body.
Aren't we taught that resurrection is the spirit reuniting with a physical body?
D&C 88
27 For notwithstanding they die, they also shall rise again, a spiritual body.
28 They who are of a celestial spirit shall receive the same body which was a natural body; even ye shall receive your bodies, and your glory shall be that glory by which your bodies are quickened

Our Spirits are tabernacled in a fallen body in this telestial sphere. Our Spirits are obedient willing divine ("they come trailing clouds of glory") and for the most part, proven. The flesh is fallen and weak-- continually carnal sensual and devilish. As we are born of God / quickened-- the flesh is not subdued but it is elevated to the levels of our willing and obedient spirit... This rebirth is not a guarantee of living in a continual state of righteousness. it is very easy to lose this grace in this Fallen / opposition heavy existence. However, great are the spiritual advantages that come from being born of God... Hence one of the many great needs to move forward with a broken heart and contrite spirit repenting and striving to follow our great Exemplar Jesus Christ every waking moment and sleeping moment of our existence... eventually we receive a greater witness of our standing before the Lord / the promise of eternal life. If we die in that blessed condition etc our bodies upon resurrection will not be fallen / tellestial but they will be Spiritual. / Spirit Bodies / together representing a "soul" in Celestial Harmony. In other words we want our body to be a reflection of the glory of our spirit. = a "spiritual body"

This is what I believe the answer to your question is. :)
Last edited by JaredBees on Fri Sep 08, 2017 8:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Negative thoughts produce negative words which produces negative actions. Purge the negativity. Dwell in Christ, and reflect his bidding: Moroni 7:45-48.

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Re: Mysteries of the Kingdom

Postby Hidingbehindmyhandle » Fri Sep 08, 2017 8:50 pm

JaredBees,
If physical death is the lose of the physical body,
is spiritual death the lose of the spirit body?

Consider this D&C 129
1 There are two kinds of beings in heaven,
namely: Angels, who are resurrected personages, having bodies of flesh and bones—
3 Secondly: the spirits of just men made perfect, they who are not resurrected, but inherit the same glory.

There is another scripture somewhere that says "the spirits of just men made perfect" means they have a spirit body (spirit bodies only come in one type - perfect)

So, to be in heaven, with the Father, he have to have either a body of flesh and bones, or a spirit body.

does "they also shall rise again, a spiritual body", mean that our spirit body will rise again?

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Re: Mysteries of the Kingdom

Postby JaredBees » Fri Sep 08, 2017 8:57 pm

Wow, alot of great questions! I will try to answer. I hope Marc is reading this-- he could give you a great understanding. Give me a second.
Negative thoughts produce negative words which produces negative actions. Purge the negativity. Dwell in Christ, and reflect his bidding: Moroni 7:45-48.

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Re: Mysteries of the Kingdom

Postby Hidingbehindmyhandle » Fri Sep 08, 2017 9:08 pm

JaredBees wrote:
Fri Sep 08, 2017 8:57 pm
Wow, alot of great questions! I will try to answer. I hope Marc is reading this-- he could give you a great understanding. Give me a second.
OK, full disclosure. I'm using the Socratic Method.
I've think I've figured this out but all my searches have turned up no writings on it.
so, I'm looking for either
1) someone willing to walk down the path of my train of thinking
or
2) someone who actually knows and maybe know of some writings on it

So, are you are still willing.

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Re: Mysteries of the Kingdom

Postby JaredBees » Fri Sep 08, 2017 10:01 pm

#2

I woul direct you this direction:

https://purerevelations.wordpress.com/a ... velation1/

If you are open and willing and move forward with faith-- praying to Father for help to suspend and protect against and eventually eliminate fear--- then this Samuel on the wall will blow your spiritual mind by what he's experienced and what you can learn through that which Jesus etc has revealed to him for yours and everybody's advantage who is and wants to be awake spiritually. If you DON'T believe the church is still under condemnation (which it is) and as a result is only. × amount of % true and is compromised as a result-- then this gentleman's writings will not be beneficial for you. If you want help understanding how to receive a "greater portion of God's word" / advance in this life receiving the desired spiritual blessings along with better understanding God's doctrines and mysteries then proceed forward with faith and heavenly blessed confidence reading his info.

Ps this man's information is not needed. ( dang is it helpful though) We have so much at our disposal through the resources of the restoration along with the spirit of revelation which will allow us to obtain...

The author of this blog and these amazing books encourages you to read his first book entitled "how to receive your second comforter" it is a book that shows the journey he took and life lived leading up to receiving his second comforter. This man is not a stone thrower at the church. However, he shares truth about its condition which can depending on where you're at either cut deep or confirm what has already been revealed to you. He is an active member from what I understand--- the difference is he is fully awake and has received and received and received... H.B.M.H. , God Bless you in your efforts to like wise receive.
Last edited by JaredBees on Fri Sep 08, 2017 11:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Mysteries of the Kingdom

Postby Hidingbehindmyhandle » Fri Sep 08, 2017 10:04 pm

umm, ya that is what I though.

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Re: Mysteries of the Kingdom

Postby freedomforall » Sat Sep 09, 2017 12:33 am

Hidingbehindmyhandle wrote:
Fri Sep 08, 2017 2:59 pm
I will show that the cannon of scripture and the teachings of Brigham Young are in harmony
Just to be thorough:
Adam and Michael are the same personage.
D&C 27:11 And also with Michael, or Adam, the father of all, the prince of all, the ancient of days;
And Michael is not "a" but "the" archangel. (only one)
D&C 88:112 And Michael, the seventh angel, even the archangel, shall gather together his armies, even the hosts of heaven.
What is an archangel – the word is prefixed arch-angel
What is the meaning of the root word Arch?
It comes from the GREEK archos. From this basic meaning it is associated with chief or head or king or origin in one way or another. You can make many words with ARCH, from ARCHbishop to ARCHfoe, from ARCHfriend to ARCHilar.
And what is an angel?
D&C 129:1 There are two kinds of beings in heaven, namely: Angels, who are resurrected personages, having bodies of flesh and bones—
Adam, Michael is the Chief/Head/King Angel
or Adam, Michael is the Chief/Head/King resurrected personage, having a body of flesh and bones
Whereas Christ does not yet have a physical body – mortal or immortal
Ether 3:9 And the Lord said unto him: Because of thy faith thou hast seen that I shall take upon me flesh and blood; and never has man come before me with such exceeding faith as thou hast; for were it not so ye could not have seen my finger. Sawest thou more than this?
So who has greater power? Adam or Christ?
that would be Adam.
Is a person of greater power superior or subordinate to one of lesser power
that would be superior
Therefore Adam is superior to Christ.

Back to Michael is the Chief/Head/King resurrected personage, having a body of flesh and bones would make him God the Father.
And looking at “Adam, the father of all” might make sense as the father of all the spirits that come to this world rather that father of all mortals, which he is not.

And all of the above give credibility to
“Adam is Michael the Archangel and he is the Father of Jesus Christ and is our God and Joseph taught this principle.”
(Brigham Young, December 16, 1867, Wilford Woodruff Journal)
At least this teaching of Brigham Young is in complete harmony with the cannon of scripture.
And of course it would.
Joseph Smith taught this to Brigham - “ and Joseph taught this principle”
Joseph Smith translated and brought forth the Book of Mormon
and the D&C is mostly revelations given to Joseph Smith
why would anyone expect anything else?

Anyone can chose to believe it or they can chose to disbelieve it or they can chose to fight against it.
It is your agency, use it wisely.

But if you are going to criticize it be honest as to what is said here and
Back it up or Shut it up
What, your mouth?

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Re: Mysteries of the Kingdom

Postby freedomforall » Sat Sep 09, 2017 12:36 am

Hidingbehindmyhandle wrote:
Fri Sep 08, 2017 5:04 pm
Does anyone know what this means, anyone want to discuse it?
D&C 88
27 For notwithstanding they die, they also shall rise again, a spiritual body.
28 They who are of a celestial spirit shall receive the same body which was a natural body; even ye shall receive your bodies, and your glory shall be that glory by which your bodies are quickened.
29 Ye who are quickened by a portion of the celestial glory shall then receive of the same, even a fulness.
30 And they who are quickened by a portion of the terrestrial glory shall then receive of the same, even a fulness.
31 And also they who are quickened by a portion of the telestial glory shall then receive of the same, even a fulness.
32 And they who remain shall also be quickened; nevertheless, they shall return again to their own place, to enjoy that which they are willing to receive, because they were not willing to enjoy that which they might have received.
It's not open for discussion. I know exactly what it says, but I'll reveal the answer on a need to know basis. And the word is discuss, not discuse.

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Re: Mysteries of the Kingdom

Postby Hidingbehindmyhandle » Sat Sep 09, 2017 12:38 am

Yes I most certainly called him a Liar. He lied about what I said and then inferred that I said God lied.
That is indeed what he did. And then he claimed an ad hominem attack. He either doesn't know what it is
or he lied that I did it.

I said there was never a first man in eternity
he said I said there was no first man on this world

So he lied - what more can I say.

He harasses people until they leave the forum - here is an example that he is proud of
freedomforall wrote:
Sat Jul 29, 2017 1:47 am
The ADAM-GOD DOCTRINE IS FALSE. NO ARGUMENT NEEDED. NO BAITING REQUIRED. NO AMOUNT OF INSULTS CAN OR WILL CHANGE MY TESTIMONY. PUTTING WORDS IN MY MOUTH WILL ONLY MAKE YOU LOOK BAD. YOUR TACTICS ARE THE VERY SAME AS THE PREVIOUS POSTERS COMING HERE TO START A CONFLICT. FRANKLY, I BELIEVE THIS DOCTRINE TO BE OTHER THAN ORTHODOX LDS BELIEF AND OF A FUNDAMENTALIST POINT OF VIEW. AND, APPARENTLY YOU LACK ENOUGH RESPECT FOR MY POSITION OF HAVING ENOUGH OF THIS TOPIC THAT NOW I FIGURE YOU ARE ONLY HERE TO GET FOLLOWERS, NOT TO ACTUALLY HEAR ARGUMENTS OF DIFFERENCE, FOR YOU HAVE NO INTENTION OF CHANGING YOUR MIND WHATSOEVER, RATHER TO JAM JS AND BY DOWN OUR THROATS, ALL THE WHILE LETTING SCRIPTURE GATHER DUST ON YOUR SHELF.
IF YOU REALLY WANT TO KNOW MY ARGUMENTS, SEARCH THE FORUM. THERE ARE PLENTY. I HAVE NO INCLINATION OF REPEATING MYSELF EVERY TIME A NEW GUY COMES ALONG.

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Re: Mysteries of the Kingdom

Postby freedomforall » Sat Sep 09, 2017 12:40 am

Hidingbehindmyhandle wrote:
Fri Sep 08, 2017 10:04 pm
umm, ya that is what I though.
The word is thought.

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Re: Mysteries of the Kingdom

Postby Hidingbehindmyhandle » Sat Sep 09, 2017 12:46 am

freedomforall wrote:
Sat Sep 09, 2017 12:36 am
Hidingbehindmyhandle wrote:
Fri Sep 08, 2017 5:04 pm
Does anyone know what this means, anyone want to discuse it?
D&C 88
27 For notwithstanding they die, they also shall rise again, a spiritual body.
28 They who are of a celestial spirit shall receive the same body which was a natural body; even ye shall receive your bodies, and your glory shall be that glory by which your bodies are quickened.
29 Ye who are quickened by a portion of the celestial glory shall then receive of the same, even a fulness.
30 And they who are quickened by a portion of the terrestrial glory shall then receive of the same, even a fulness.
31 And also they who are quickened by a portion of the telestial glory shall then receive of the same, even a fulness.
32 And they who remain shall also be quickened; nevertheless, they shall return again to their own place, to enjoy that which they are willing to receive, because they were not willing to enjoy that which they might have received.
It's not open for discussion. I know exactly what it says, but I'll reveal the answer on a need to know basis. And the word is discuss, not discuse.
there is only one word for someone who treats people like this and we all know what it is.

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Re: Mysteries of the Kingdom

Postby Hidingbehindmyhandle » Sat Sep 09, 2017 12:55 am

Let's see if it is possible to have a civil discussion.

My question is:

2 Nephi 2: tells us that the consequences of sin are physical and spiritual death.
and it says that spiritual death is separation from the presence of God

D&C 129 tells us that to be in heaven, which is where God is, we need to have either a perfected physical body or a perfected spirit body.


Physical death is the loss of the physical body.
is Spiritual death the loss of the spirit body?

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Re: Mysteries of the Kingdom

Postby freedomforall » Sat Sep 09, 2017 1:18 am

Hidingbehindmyhandle wrote:
Sat Sep 09, 2017 12:38 am
Yes I most certainly called him a Liar. He lied about what I said and then inferred that I said God lied.
That is indeed what he did. And then he claimed an ad hominem attack. He either doesn't know what it is
or he lied that I did it.

I said there was never a first man in eternity
he said I said there was no first man on this world

So he lied - what more can I say.

He harasses people until they leave the forum - here is an example that he is proud of
freedomforall wrote:
Sat Jul 29, 2017 1:47 am
The ADAM-GOD DOCTRINE IS FALSE. NO ARGUMENT NEEDED. NO BAITING REQUIRED. NO AMOUNT OF INSULTS CAN OR WILL CHANGE MY TESTIMONY. PUTTING WORDS IN MY MOUTH WILL ONLY MAKE YOU LOOK BAD. YOUR TACTICS ARE THE VERY SAME AS THE PREVIOUS POSTERS COMING HERE TO START A CONFLICT. FRANKLY, I BELIEVE THIS DOCTRINE TO BE OTHER THAN ORTHODOX LDS BELIEF AND OF A FUNDAMENTALIST POINT OF VIEW. AND, APPARENTLY YOU LACK ENOUGH RESPECT FOR MY POSITION OF HAVING ENOUGH OF THIS TOPIC THAT NOW I FIGURE YOU ARE ONLY HERE TO GET FOLLOWERS, NOT TO ACTUALLY HEAR ARGUMENTS OF DIFFERENCE, FOR YOU HAVE NO INTENTION OF CHANGING YOUR MIND WHATSOEVER, RATHER TO JAM JS AND BY DOWN OUR THROATS, ALL THE WHILE LETTING SCRIPTURE GATHER DUST ON YOUR SHELF.
IF YOU REALLY WANT TO KNOW MY ARGUMENTS, SEARCH THE FORUM. THERE ARE PLENTY. I HAVE NO INCLINATION OF REPEATING MYSELF EVERY TIME A NEW GUY COMES ALONG.
:(( :(( :((

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Re: Mysteries of the Kingdom

Postby Hidingbehindmyhandle » Sat Sep 09, 2017 1:19 am

So no civility?

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Re: Mysteries of the Kingdom

Postby freedomforall » Sat Sep 09, 2017 1:20 am

Hidingbehindmyhandle wrote:
Sat Sep 09, 2017 12:46 am
freedomforall wrote:
Sat Sep 09, 2017 12:36 am
Hidingbehindmyhandle wrote:
Fri Sep 08, 2017 5:04 pm
Does anyone know what this means, anyone want to discuse it?
D&C 88
27 For notwithstanding they die, they also shall rise again, a spiritual body.
28 They who are of a celestial spirit shall receive the same body which was a natural body; even ye shall receive your bodies, and your glory shall be that glory by which your bodies are quickened.
29 Ye who are quickened by a portion of the celestial glory shall then receive of the same, even a fulness.
30 And they who are quickened by a portion of the terrestrial glory shall then receive of the same, even a fulness.
31 And also they who are quickened by a portion of the telestial glory shall then receive of the same, even a fulness.
32 And they who remain shall also be quickened; nevertheless, they shall return again to their own place, to enjoy that which they are willing to receive, because they were not willing to enjoy that which they might have received.
It's not open for discussion. I know exactly what it says, but I'll reveal the answer on a need to know basis. And the word is discuss, not discuse.
there is only one word for someone who treats people like this and we all know what it is.
Reciprocate?

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Re: Mysteries of the Kingdom

Postby Hidingbehindmyhandle » Sat Sep 09, 2017 1:58 am

Many many years ago, I taught the missionary discussions to a young man that was truly a golden contact.
The question was asked on the second discussion, he said of course, but you will still teach me all the discussions won't you.
A truly marvelous young man, he grasped everything, did everything asked of him with such joy.
After he had his interview were were leaving together and this thought popped into my head.
I stopped him and asked him if he knew the Lord wanted him to be baptized and he said of course.
Then I asked him if Satan wanted him to be baptized, he thought for a bit and said it never crossed his mind
but no he would not want him to be baptized. So between now and your baptism date, do you think he will
try to change your mind. A little surprised he said I guess he will. I felt a little bad because everyone was so happy before
and now we were parting a little somber. The date came and he was baptized, everything went perfect. Just before
we were leaving he came to me and said. How did you know? I have had the worst week ever in my life, the opposition
was terrible but I just looked forward to today. If you had not warned me, I don't know if I would have made it, but I kept hearing does Satan want me to be baptized.

In joining this forum, I have had some delightful private messages, but the rest reminds me of this marvelous young man's final week before his baptism.

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Re: Mysteries of the Kingdom

Postby freedomforall » Sat Sep 09, 2017 2:16 am

Hidingbehindmyhandle wrote:
Sat Sep 09, 2017 12:55 am
Let's see if it is possible to have a civil discussion.

My question is:

2 Nephi 2: tells us that the consequences of sin are physical and spiritual death.
and it says that spiritual death is separation from the presence of God

D&C 129 tells us that to be in heaven, which is where God is, we need to have either a perfected physical body or a perfected spirit body.


Physical death is the loss of the physical body.
is Spiritual death the loss of the spirit body?
No


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