Council of Fifty

For discussion of liberty, freedom, government and politics.
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WhisperFox
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Council of Fifty

Post by WhisperFox »

I started a new thread answering the question Darren posted about setting up corporate groups.
Darren - This is how to save it! Set ourselves up into the 10’s the 50’s and the 100’s of ancient Israel by the ancient system of the Anglo-Saxon’s, the Lost Ten Tribes, the Hansa.
I posted that the church had a plan, first established by Joseph Smith Jr. .

While Darren's premise of organizing groups has some merit, we have to be wise enough not to re-invent the wheel or worse, setup a substitute or counterfeit for what the Lord has already setup. This is information not commonly discussed for many different reasons, but perhaps this group is ready to go swimming instead of wading in the shallows.

To understand this council, organized and run by priesthood authority, is to be able to see the transition from our current form of law, to the government that will come out of New Jerusalem during the millennium.

Here's the basics.

Joseph Smith Jr. organized and setup the Council of 50.

Here's a short synopsis of the Council of Fifty prepared by Kenneth W. Godfrey for the book "The Encyclopedia of Mormonism".

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The Council of Fifty

by Kenneth W. Godfrey

The Council of Fifty, a council formed in Nauvoo in 1844, provided a pattern of political government under priesthood and revelation. It was, to its members, the nucleus or focus of God's latter-day kingdom.

Old Testament prophecy speaks of a stone "cut out of the mountain without hands" that will roll forth to fill the whole earth (Dan. 2:44-45). Joseph Smith and his associates believed that the "little stone" represented in part a political kingdom similar to the other kingdoms referred to by Daniel. Joseph Smith taught that in this, the dispensation of the fulness of times, "all things" would be set in place for Christ's return, including the basic principles and organization for a system that would govern the earth during the Millennium (JD 1:202-203; 2:189; 17:156-57).

On April 7, 1842, Joseph Smith received a revelation giving the formal name of the "Living Constitution"—or, as it came to be known by the number of its members, the Council of Fifty—and indicating that the nucleus of a government of God would be organized. Two years later, in the spring of 1844, after a small group of faithful Church leaders and members had received their temple Endowment, the Prophet formally established the Council of Fifty.

Members of the council understood its principles to be consistent with the ethics of scripture and with the protections and responsibilities of the Constitution of the United States. Non-Latter-day Saints could be members (three were among the founding members), but all were to follow God's law and seek to know his will. The president of the church sat as council president, with others seated according to age, beginning with the oldest. Revealed rules governed proceedings, including one that required that decisions be unanimous.

The council had some practical responsibilities for organizing Joseph Smith's presidential campaign in 1844, the exodus from Nauvoo in 1845-1846 (see Westward Migration), and early government in the Great Basin. But what interested council members most was, not their specific duties, but the expectation that the council represented something much larger: it was a working demonstration of the principles and pattern for a future kingdom of God on earth. The Church already had a well-developed apocalyptic outlook, including belief in the latter-day collapse of existing governments before Christ's return. In this framework, the Council of Fifty was viewed as the seed of a new political order that would rule, under Christ, following the prophesied cataclysmic events of the last days.

The council, therefore, did not challenge existing systems of law and government (even in Nauvoo), but functioned more as a private organization learning to operate in a pluralistic society. Its exercise of actual political power was modest, but provided a symbol of the future theocratic kingdom of God. Always, the Fifty functioned under the First Presidency and the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles, who were also members of the council.

After the westward migration and the early pioneer period, the Council of Fifty largely disappeared as a functioning body, except for a brief resurgence during John Taylor's presidency when the Church again faced intense political challenges. Still, the Saints found consolation in the belief that one day, when the Savior returned, the Council of Fifty, or a council based on its principles, would rise again to govern the world under the King of Kings.

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Last edited by WhisperFox on November 23rd, 2006, 10:42 am, edited 1 time in total.

WhisperFox
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Post by WhisperFox »

Why isn't this organization openly discussed on a regular basis?

My personal observations.

Under our current political situation, an organization without a clear separation of church and state is unacceptable to the world. To talk of the Council of Fifty with someone, (member or not) who believes the United States of America will survive the "end of all nations" and and who ignores prophecies of the latter-day prophets concerning the destruction of our nation, is treason.

During the millennium, we will have a theocracy, rule by the Lord himself. Joseph taught that this organization will be the legitimate structure, using the principles of the US Constitution that will lead us into the millennium.

The president of the church, prophet, seer and revelator is to lead this council. Other general authorities will serve on it along with some non-members. I am sure the general authorities are aware of the purpose and function of this organization.

The following is second hand hearsay. I can't verify it without arranging for an appointment with a general authority myself. I think they have more important things to do than to answer my questions. I have a friend that asked this question to Elder Ballard, during an interview. Elder Ballard opened a drawer and pulled out a folder that had plans and details concerning this organizations implementation at a future date. I have no reason to doubt my friend.

Another problem I see is that there are some apostate groups that feel that they have the right or authority to organize or re-establish this council. This has been the reason for several apostate groups starting right after Joesph Smiths martyrdom. When someone starts promoting setting up a legal corporate group with this type of authority, it raises a giant red flags for me.

These apostate groups thrive on members of the church, either new converts, or those who've just opened their eyes to our 'awful situation'. These apostates question the actions of our leaders in order to lead people astray, usually posing as good active members. In the end, their plans turn out to be nothing more than plans providing monetary support for their leaders who are too lazy to go out and get a job. This is priestcraft at it's worst.

Because this is a subject regularly taught by apostates, one needs to be very careful in researching it. Some web sites offering the most information, looking like very legitimate LDS sites, end up being nothing more than a front for apostate groups.

While Darren's mentor may have found some truths in ancient writings, there is no reason to attempt to build an organization resembling the vague history we patch together from an 1800 year old system that MAY have been true or may have just been the a copy of something that had been true earlier.

We have the real thing, restored in it's fullness by a prophet of God. All we have to do is trust that when the time is right the prophets will teach us and lead us as the Lord commands.

WhisperFox
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Post by WhisperFox »

40. S. Dilworth Young, Here Is Brigham, p. 346.
In March of 1844 Joseph organized a Council of Fifty, whose initial composition included some non-Mormons, as well as leaders of the Church. Among the tasks placed upon them was to work for redress of Church losses and to investigate places for settlement and manners in which a moving of the people might take place. Later that month, on the 26th, Joseph addressed a memorial to the United States Congress asking for authority to raise a large group of men to open up unexplored areas in the West. On that same day he called the Twelve together, in a mood and spirit which led many to believe that he had presentiments concerning his own death and the shortness of the time which was left to him. He charged them to "bear off the Kingdom," and told them "some important scene is near to take place." He made it clear that, if his life was taken, the Twelve had to be in possession of all the keys and powers which he alone could confer upon them. "Then, if God wills," he told them, "I can go with all pleasure and satisfacion, knowing that my work is done, and the foundation laid on which the kingdom of God is to be reared." Dramatically, with great feeling, he walked the floor and threw back the collar of his coat upon his shoulders, "I roll the burthen and responsibility of leading this Church off from my shoulders on to yours. Now, round up your shoulders and stand under it like men; for the Lord is going to let me rest for awhile." . . . After he had thus spoken, he continued to walk the floor, saying: "Since I have rolled the burthen off from my shoulders I feel as light as a cork. I feel that I am free. I thank my God for this deliverance.
40. S. Dilworth Young, Here Is Brigham, p. 346.

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Church News 11/29/1997
In January 1849 the Council of Fifty assumed the civic responsibilities for the growing community. These leading priesthood holders, presided over by the First Presidency, met weekly at the home of Heber C. Kimball. There was no separation of church and state at the time because the Saints considered all affairs of the kingdom of God to be one, whether spiritual, economic or political.8

As Brigham Young stated “We cannot talk about spiritual things without connecting with them temporal things, neither can we talk about temporal things without connecting spiritual things with them. They are inseparably connected.”9

This government was known as the Provisional State of Deseret and continued for two years to lay out the expanding city into 19 wards each nine blocks in size. Bishops were placed in charge of each ward and among such duties as supervising fence building and irrigation ditch construction they also played a significant role in adjudicating differences between members and generally operating their units as miniature villages under the stake umbrella.

This provisional government was the civil governing authority in the entire Great Basin, charged with organizing counties, granting rights to natural resources, regulated trade and commerce, established the Nauvoo Legion as the official state militia and fulfilled all the functions of a regular government. Brigham Young and his counselors were elected, respectively, governor, chief justice and secretary.

This government functioned admirably and effectively until the U.S. Congress formally established the Territory of Utah in September 1850.
Church News 11/29/1997

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SwissMrs&Pitchfire
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Post by SwissMrs&Pitchfire »

Thanks for the reference, I will be reading up on it.

Tribunal
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Post by Tribunal »

Whisperfox:

Thank you so much for the information. I've been asking for anything anyone has on Joseph Smith and government. He had all these ideas and until now no one seemed to have any resources. Thanks again!

Is there more? I'll be done with this tonight and will be hungry for more in the morning. Not that the turkey didn't fill me up - just a different hunger!

WhisperFox
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Post by WhisperFox »

There is a lot more about Joseph Smith and government. I'll see what I can put together.

One of the papers I glanced at this morning concerning the Council of Fifty was Brigham Young's comments about how he organized the saints for the trek west according to the order of the Council of 50, in groups of 5's 10's 50's and 100's.

It's more than just a single quorum, it involves organizing the saints in a way that allows much more help and assistance than what we use normally, and a way for everyone to participate in what we normally would think of as governmental or civic duties.

Tribunal
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Post by Tribunal »

What websites talk about the Council of Fifty or anything else associated with Joseph Smith and a theocratic government?
This government functioned admirably and effectively until the U.S. Congress formally established the Territory of Utah in September 1850.
Can anyone refer me to more information on how the system functioned admirably and effectively? What were the details of the system such as their platform, agenda, bylaws, etc?

Tribunal
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Post by Tribunal »

Tribunal wrote:What websites talk about the Council of Fifty or anything else associated with Joseph Smith and a theocratic government?
After researching this topic on different search engines I've figured this out on my own. This is a really interesting topic. I've read that all of the minutes at the Council were secret. Why is that?

Would such a system work today or is this something that can only come to pass when all secular governments have collapsed?

WhisperFox
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Post by WhisperFox »

Would it work today? Yes, if we had a truly constitutional government and we were ruled by good, honest, and wise men as the D&C specifies. Then the government would have nothing to fear from such a group. If our latter-day prophets are correct and secret combinations have control over our government, they would never allow such a group to function because it would challenge their power.

It will work in the future, guaranteed, if you believe in modern revelation through the Prophet Joseph Smith and those who have followed.

I believe the minutes were secret so that the men attending could freely speak their minds. Remember, this wasn't like a 5 or 7 man city council, where a few corrupt individuals could control the group this is 50 of the most influential and righteous men led by a prophet of God. In order to act or make any law, they had to be united 100% or the issue was tabled. I guess with a group that size, each being held personally responsible for the credibility of the council, there wouldn't be much need of me scrutinizing their minutes or attending to keep an eye on them.

The only council I could compare it to would be when I served in a stake high council. For all decisions we all had to be united or no decision could be made. Our minutes were not open for the public either. Bishoprics are supposed to function the same way, united or no decision is made. This is why bishops are required to have counselors and don't funtion independently.

Some aren't aware that the First Presidency has to be united 100% to make any decision. Likewise the Q12 have to be united 100% for any decision.

Tribunal
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Post by Tribunal »

Could such a system work say with the US Senate or House? What if laws could only be passed if all of the senators and representatives voted in support of the law?

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SwissMrs&Pitchfire
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Post by SwissMrs&Pitchfire »

That is an interesting point about bishoprics. I have to add an exception though for when the sons of Aaron return and serve without councilors.

I read a few articles from BYU studies on the council of fifty and questioned why it couldn't incorporate just what Darren has been discussing, but your above quote clarifies that. (to say that it could)

I do have one question as to their concensus. In what I read the article stated that members were under covenant to speak their mind always, (which I think is an incredibly brilliant concept). It went on to explain:

"To pass, a motion must be unanimous in the affirmative. Voting is done after the ancient order: each person voting in turn from the oldest to the youngest member of the Council, commencing with the standing chairman. If any member has any objections he is under covenant to fully and freely make them known to the Council. But if he cannot be convinced of the rightness of the course pursued by the Council he must either yield or withdraw membership in the Council. Thus a man will lose his place in the Council if he refuses to act in accordance with righteous principles in the deliberations of the Council. After action is taken and a motion accepted, no fault will be found or change sought for in regard to the motion."

This would seem to say that after deliberations, when a final vote was taken, it had to be in concensus with the group or you were out. Is this correct?

"The 1844 minutes of the Council contain hundreds of pages of the Prophet's teachings about the meaning of the U.S. Constitution and the application of that document to the Latter-day saints in the world and during the Millennium."

These are unavailable and archived. Alas one day...

I still have mountains of reading to do, but sufice it to say that another huge piece has come to light for me!

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John Adams
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Post by John Adams »

Wow - good stuff everyone. Thanks for posting all of this. You've got my brain churning again.

In reading through all of this I also remembered that in one of Ken Bower's presentations, he had some information on Joseph Smith's platform when he ran for President. Does anyone have access to this (either from Ken or from another source)? If I remember right it was very similar to some of the other things posted here.

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