LDS Missionary Beats Up Mugger w/Gun
- Elizabeth
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Re: LDS Missionary Beats Up Mugger w/Gun
No Ezra, they may not "need it more than you do". Regardless, their actions do not deserve to be rewarded.
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Re: LDS Missionary Beats Up Mugger w/Gun
Are Elder Nattress's kids special? Or do you just General Authority worship? Hint.....it's just a calling.Ezra wrote: ↑March 16th, 2017, 7:22 pmPressingForward wrote: ↑March 16th, 2017, 5:39 pm What an awesome Elder of Israel! I'll bet he was from Idaho too, well maybe not the west side. B-) Those folk over in the Parma area or Weiser need some gumpshun. His Daddy raised him right. His companion needs help.
Are you making fun of elder Brett nattress kids? They were raised in western Idaho.
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Re: LDS Missionary Beats Up Mugger w/Gun
The normal missionary rules are not to resist and to give them (the robbers) what they want.
Judging from the video it appears like they are in front of a chapel (most chapels in Latin America are surrounded by a cream-colored wall with wrought iron to discourage robberies--such is the case in Brazil and in Mexico at least) and they are chatting with some young men when the assailant rides up pulling a weapon.
The American missionary acts like he will comply until he wrestles the gun away. Seeing the thiefs lounging for the weapon it is easy to see it is not loaded. So he chucks the gun over the wrought iron fence into the chapel yard, and proceeds to go to town on the hapless assailant. The assailant´s partner flees the scene to the right.
The would-be robber is beaten up and a policeman tries to intervene, though the robber breaks the tackle and flees too, with the townspeople in pursuit.
The other companion does nothing. He didn´t pee his pants. He is doing exactly as he should per the mission rules, as well as observing the fight from afar as he sees the policeman pull up.
In many Latam countries, the penal code for most crimes is "guilty until proven innocent." So the policeman rides up to see the missionary fighting, did´t see the gun before, the missionary goes to jail and not the robber. That is, until the companion that isn´t doing anything, being a witness to the fight, can bail the missionary out of jail saying that he is innocent, as well as the young men accompanying the missionaries.
American elder: Made a snap decision that ended up saving the lives of those he was around. Against the mission rules, but he probably saved many lives. He won´t be sent home but he will definitely be transferred to another area if not another mission (Manaus is a compact mission with the vast majority of the wards and branches in the city itself).
Latin elder: Followed the mission rules, and knowing the culture of his country, thought it better to be a witness in case the policeman wanted to haul his comp to jail, than to get involved in the altercation and end up both in jail. Will be transferred out of the area more than likely. Area would be closed to missionary work for months if not a few years.
Judging from the video it appears like they are in front of a chapel (most chapels in Latin America are surrounded by a cream-colored wall with wrought iron to discourage robberies--such is the case in Brazil and in Mexico at least) and they are chatting with some young men when the assailant rides up pulling a weapon.
The American missionary acts like he will comply until he wrestles the gun away. Seeing the thiefs lounging for the weapon it is easy to see it is not loaded. So he chucks the gun over the wrought iron fence into the chapel yard, and proceeds to go to town on the hapless assailant. The assailant´s partner flees the scene to the right.
The would-be robber is beaten up and a policeman tries to intervene, though the robber breaks the tackle and flees too, with the townspeople in pursuit.
The other companion does nothing. He didn´t pee his pants. He is doing exactly as he should per the mission rules, as well as observing the fight from afar as he sees the policeman pull up.
In many Latam countries, the penal code for most crimes is "guilty until proven innocent." So the policeman rides up to see the missionary fighting, did´t see the gun before, the missionary goes to jail and not the robber. That is, until the companion that isn´t doing anything, being a witness to the fight, can bail the missionary out of jail saying that he is innocent, as well as the young men accompanying the missionaries.
American elder: Made a snap decision that ended up saving the lives of those he was around. Against the mission rules, but he probably saved many lives. He won´t be sent home but he will definitely be transferred to another area if not another mission (Manaus is a compact mission with the vast majority of the wards and branches in the city itself).
Latin elder: Followed the mission rules, and knowing the culture of his country, thought it better to be a witness in case the policeman wanted to haul his comp to jail, than to get involved in the altercation and end up both in jail. Will be transferred out of the area more than likely. Area would be closed to missionary work for months if not a few years.
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Re: LDS Missionary Beats Up Mugger w/Gun
You said western Idaho kids need gumpshun. I'm asked about his kids since they are western Idaho kids.PressingForward wrote: ↑March 16th, 2017, 8:31 pmAre Elder Nattress's kids special? Or do you just General Authority worship? Hint.....it's just a calling.Ezra wrote: ↑March 16th, 2017, 7:22 pmPressingForward wrote: ↑March 16th, 2017, 5:39 pm What an awesome Elder of Israel! I'll bet he was from Idaho too, well maybe not the west side. B-) Those folk over in the Parma area or Weiser need some gumpshun. His Daddy raised him right. His companion needs help.
Are you making fun of elder Brett nattress kids? They were raised in western Idaho.
Somehow that means I worship the general attorneys??
What do you worship me since your speaking about me??
Makes no sense does it??
I'm currently wondering about your sanity. Are you ok.
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Re: LDS Missionary Beats Up Mugger w/Gun
I think interest in the missionaries will go up. Ammon also got a few baptisms after defending some sheep.
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Re: LDS Missionary Beats Up Mugger w/Gun
Really doubt anyone would have been hurt or lives lost. Things would have just been stolen.
that would be really sad if missionary work gets stopped for awhile in that area.
that would be really sad if missionary work gets stopped for awhile in that area.
- David13
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Re: LDS Missionary Beats Up Mugger w/Gun
Ezra wrote: ↑March 16th, 2017, 7:25 pmOr just give them your wallet with a few bucks in it. They obviously need it more then you do. You could also offer them to the knowledge be able to never be hungry or thirsty again. Hint hint.
"They obviously need it more than you do"
How do you know this? How do you know that they are not rather rich from all the stealing they do?
And yet you criticize others for making "judgments".
dc
- David13
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Re: LDS Missionary Beats Up Mugger w/Gun
Again, you are omniscient.
And on Thursday, nonetheless.
dc
Ezra
Have you ever heard it said that evil is when good men do nothing?
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Re: LDS Missionary Beats Up Mugger w/Gun
The church has not identified the missionaries involved, but spokesman Eric Hawkins released the following statement:
“We are grateful that this incident did not end tragically, either for the missionaries or the other individuals involved. The guidance given to missionaries is to avoid conflict. Every situation is unique, and as adults, missionaries must make decisions about their safety. In this case, the assailant had a weapon and the missionary reacted in the moment to protect his life and that of his companion.”
“We are grateful that this incident did not end tragically, either for the missionaries or the other individuals involved. The guidance given to missionaries is to avoid conflict. Every situation is unique, and as adults, missionaries must make decisions about their safety. In this case, the assailant had a weapon and the missionary reacted in the moment to protect his life and that of his companion.”
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Re: LDS Missionary Beats Up Mugger w/Gun
Thumbs up David 13David13 wrote: ↑March 16th, 2017, 9:54 pm
"They obviously need it more than you do"
How do you know this? How do you know that they are not rather rich from all the stealing they do?
And yet you criticize others for making "judgments".
dc
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Re: LDS Missionary Beats Up Mugger w/Gun
Is it good to have both cheeks ventilated by bullets? I applaud the missionary.
And, yes, God does become angry.
2 Nephi 15:25
25 Therefore, is the anger of the Lord kindled against his people, and he hath stretched forth his hand against them, and hath smitten them; and the hills did tremble, and their carcasses were torn in the midst of the streets. For all this his anger is not turned away, but his hand is stretched out still.
Doctrine and Covenants 109:27,52
27 And if any people shall rise against this people, that thine anger be kindled against them;
Doctrine and Covenants 63:2
2 Yea, verily, I say, hear the word of him whose anger is kindled against the wicked and rebellious;
Doctrine and Covenants 61:31
31 And in that place they shall lift up their voices unto God against that people, yea, unto him whose anger is kindled against their wickedness, a people who are well-nigh ripened for destruction.
Doctrine and Covenants 60:2
2 But with some I am not well pleased, for they will not open their mouths, but they hide the talent which I have given unto them, because of the fear of man. Wo unto such, for mine anger is kindled against them.
Doctrine and Covenants 5:8
8 Oh, this unbelieving and stiffnecked generation—mine anger is kindled against them.
Doctrine and Covenants 84:24
24 But they hardened their hearts and could not endure his presence; therefore, the Lord in his wrath, for his anger was kindled against them, swore that they should not enter into his rest while in the wilderness, which rest is the fulness of his glory.
Doctrine and Covenants 121:5
5 Let thine anger be kindled against our enemies; and, in the fury of thine heart, with thy sword avenge us of our wrongs.
Doctrine and Covenants 56:1
1 Hearken, O ye people who profess my name, saith the Lord your God; for behold, mine anger is kindled against the rebellious, and they shall know mine arm and mine indignation, in the day of visitation and of wrath upon the nations.
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Re: LDS Missionary Beats Up Mugger w/Gun
Will someone please show me where in the video, the missionary beat up the mugger with a gun? :-ss
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Re: LDS Missionary Beats Up Mugger w/Gun
It sounds better than missionary beats up mugger with motorcycle.freedomforall wrote: ↑March 17th, 2017, 3:55 am Will someone please show me where in the video, the missionary beat up the mugger with a gun? :-ss
Or I could change mugger to muggers. But I won't. :p
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Re: LDS Missionary Beats Up Mugger w/Gun
The English language is goofy isn't it?paulrobots wrote: ↑March 17th, 2017, 5:26 amIt sounds better than missionary beats up mugger with motorcycle.freedomforall wrote: ↑March 17th, 2017, 3:55 am Will someone please show me where in the video, the missionary beat up the mugger with a gun? :-ss
Or I could change mugger to muggers. But I won't. :p
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Re: LDS Missionary Beats Up Mugger w/Gun
freedomforall wrote: ↑March 17th, 2017, 3:08 amIs it good to have both cheeks ventilated by bullets? I applaud the missionary.
And, yes, God does become angry.
2 Nephi 15:25
25 Therefore, is the anger of the Lord kindled against his people, and he hath stretched forth his hand against them, and hath smitten them; and the hills did tremble, and their carcasses were torn in the midst of the streets. For all this his anger is not turned away, but his hand is stretched out still.
Doctrine and Covenants 109:27,52
27 And if any people shall rise against this people, that thine anger be kindled against them;
Doctrine and Covenants 63:2
2 Yea, verily, I say, hear the word of him whose anger is kindled against the wicked and rebellious;
Doctrine and Covenants 61:31
31 And in that place they shall lift up their voices unto God against that people, yea, unto him whose anger is kindled against their wickedness, a people who are well-nigh ripened for destruction.
Doctrine and Covenants 60:2
2 But with some I am not well pleased, for they will not open their mouths, but they hide the talent which I have given unto them, because of the fear of man. Wo unto such, for mine anger is kindled against them.
Doctrine and Covenants 5:8
8 Oh, this unbelieving and stiffnecked generation—mine anger is kindled against them.
Doctrine and Covenants 84:24
24 But they hardened their hearts and could not endure his presence; therefore, the Lord in his wrath, for his anger was kindled against them, swore that they should not enter into his rest while in the wilderness, which rest is the fulness of his glory.
Doctrine and Covenants 121:5
5 Let thine anger be kindled against our enemies; and, in the fury of thine heart, with thy sword avenge us of our wrongs.
Doctrine and Covenants 56:1
1 Hearken, O ye people who profess my name, saith the Lord your God; for behold, mine anger is kindled against the rebellious, and they shall know mine arm and mine indignation, in the day of visitation and of wrath upon the nations.
I don't think God ever gets angry. I cannot see a perfect being loosing control of his emotions. Angry is dirty. It makes no sense. Even though the word anger is used in scripture doesn't means he gets angry. Another word could easily be used in its place in all those scriptures to say the same thing. The scriptures warn us of our public school education system. Yet never call it public school educational system. The scriptures use church and other words like preistcraft to describe it. You know That as well as I do.
FFA. Where are all the scriptures that say if you lay down your life in my service you will be saved/ exalted?
Seems the better scriptures to be posting in this thread.
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Re: LDS Missionary Beats Up Mugger w/Gun
Thanks for thinking I'm all knowing. Quite the compliment. But I'm not.
Have you ever heard that fighting over money is not good?
This missionary got lucky. You can tell he is not trained in self defense by watching his actions. What he did could have gotten him killed. He is lucky. His actions could have gotten them killed.
Think about it. The typical reaction of someone in that stituation is to either do what he did or just comply. That's the norm that's the "doing nothing". And that's the reaction someone with a gun should expect. Any why it's lucky he didn't get themselfs killed. That's the every day squabbling of men. It's the reactions that are outside the norm that are actually "doing something". The norm is fight or flight. doing either out of fear is doing nothing. Doing something is to react differently then the norm. High tention moments are great teaching opportunities.
Who's life is worth loosing over some paper?
A poem
Angels on the sideline,
Puzzled and amused.
Why did Father give these humans free will?
Now they're all confused.
Don't these talking monkeys know that
Eden has enough to go around?
Plenty in this holy garden, silly monkeys,
Where there's one you're bound to divide it.
Right in two.
Angels on the sideline,
Baffled and confused.
Father blessed them all with reason.
And this is what they choose.
Monkey killing monkey killing monkey
Over pieces of the ground.
Silly monkeys give them thumbs,
They forge a blade,
And where there's one
they're bound to divide it,
Right in two.
Monkey killing monkey killing monkey.
Over pieces of the ground.
Silly monkeys give them thumbs.
They make a club.
And beat their brother, down.
How they survive so misguided is a mystery.
Repugnant is a creature who would squander the ability to lift an eye to heaven conscious of his fleeting time here.
Fight over the clouds, over wind, over sky
Fight over life, over blood, over prayer,
overhead and light
Fight over love, over sun,
over another, Fight for each other,
for the ones who are rising.
Angels on the sideline again.
Benched along with patience and reason.
Angels on the sideline again
Wondering when this tug of war will end.
Cut and divide it all right in two.
There is a better way then all this fighting you know that as well as i do.
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Re: LDS Missionary Beats Up Mugger w/Gun
D&c 121. 40 Hence many are called, but few are chosen.
41 No power or influence can or ought to be maintained by virtue of the priesthood, only by persuasion, by long-suffering, by gentleness and meekness, and by love unfeigned;
42 By kindness, and pure knowledge, which shall greatly enlarge the soul without hypocrisy, and without guile—
43 Reproving betimes with sharpness, when moved upon by the Holy Ghost; and then showing forth afterwards an increase of love toward him whom thou hast reproved, lest he esteem thee to be his enemy;
Was this the case with what happened in that situation?
And ffa where is the part about anger in that scripture ??
I can see God reproving with sharpness. When moved by the Holy Spirit. But that is not anger: that's love. And that requires a plan thoughtfulness and selflessness in order to do correctly. Anger doesn't fit.
41 No power or influence can or ought to be maintained by virtue of the priesthood, only by persuasion, by long-suffering, by gentleness and meekness, and by love unfeigned;
42 By kindness, and pure knowledge, which shall greatly enlarge the soul without hypocrisy, and without guile—
43 Reproving betimes with sharpness, when moved upon by the Holy Ghost; and then showing forth afterwards an increase of love toward him whom thou hast reproved, lest he esteem thee to be his enemy;
Was this the case with what happened in that situation?
And ffa where is the part about anger in that scripture ??
I can see God reproving with sharpness. When moved by the Holy Spirit. But that is not anger: that's love. And that requires a plan thoughtfulness and selflessness in order to do correctly. Anger doesn't fit.
- h_p
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Re: LDS Missionary Beats Up Mugger w/Gun
Your life is in danger the moment someone points a gun at you. Not when you decide to resist.
Yes, God did tell us to turn the other cheek, but He also has said this:
Let me ask you this, if you're convinced the thug wasn't going to harm anyone, why did he have a gun, and why was he pointing it at innocent people?Alma 43:46-47 wrote:And they were doing that which they felt was the duty which they owed to their God; for the Lord had said unto them, and also unto their fathers, that: Inasmuch as ye are not guilty of the first offense, neither the second, ye shall not suffer yourselves to be slain by the hands of your enemies.
And again, the Lord has said that: Ye shall defend your families even unto bloodshed. Therefore for this cause were the Nephites contending with the Lamanites, to defend themselves, and their families, and their lands, their country, and their rights, and their religion.
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Re: LDS Missionary Beats Up Mugger w/Gun
I was merely wondering...when does God ever have to have the Holy Ghost move upon him?Ezra wrote: ↑March 17th, 2017, 9:00 am D&c 121. 40 Hence many are called, but few are chosen.
41 No power or influence can or ought to be maintained by virtue of the priesthood, only by persuasion, by long-suffering, by gentleness and meekness, and by love unfeigned;
42 By kindness, and pure knowledge, which shall greatly enlarge the soul without hypocrisy, and without guile—
43 Reproving betimes with sharpness, when moved upon by the Holy Ghost; and then showing forth afterwards an increase of love toward him whom thou hast reproved, lest he esteem thee to be his enemy;
Was this the case with what happened in that situation?
And ffa where is the part about anger in that scripture ??
I can see God reproving with sharpness. When moved by the Holy Spirit. But that is not anger: that's love. And that requires a plan thoughtfulness and selflessness in order to do correctly. Anger doesn't fit.
Was Ammon wrong for defending himself?
Alma 20
20 And he stretched forth his hand to slay Ammon. But Ammon withstood his blows, and also smote his arm that he could not use it.
21 Now when the king saw that Ammon could slay him, he began to plead with Ammon that he would spare his life.
22 But Ammon raised his sword, and said unto him: Behold, I will smite thee except thou wilt grant unto me that my brethren may be cast out of prison.
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Re: LDS Missionary Beats Up Mugger w/Gun
Ezra wrote: ↑March 16th, 2017, 9:00 pmYou said western Idaho kids need gumpshun. I did. I'm asked about his kids since they are western Idaho kids. . Say what? Did you mean to say "I'm asking about his.." I sure hope you're not homeschooling your kids....PressingForward wrote: ↑March 16th, 2017, 8:31 pmAre Elder Nattress's kids special? Or do you just General Authority worship? Hint.....it's just a calling.Ezra wrote: ↑March 16th, 2017, 7:22 pmPressingForward wrote: ↑March 16th, 2017, 5:39 pm What an awesome Elder of Israel! I'll bet he was from Idaho too, well maybe not the west side. B-) Those folk over in the Parma area or Weiser need some gumpshun. His Daddy raised him right. His companion needs help.
Are you making fun of elder Brett nattress kids? They were raised in western Idaho.
Somehow that means I worship the general attorneys?? . Say what? Are you making fun of the General Authories of the Church? Not cool at all
What do you worship me since your speaking about me??
"your" is possesive. Your House, your car, your lack of education.
Makes no sense does it??
No, you make no sense at all.
I'm currently wondering about your sanity. Are you ok.
Too funny, I'll pray for you brother, because it is clear as to whom is in need of help.
- David13
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Re: LDS Missionary Beats Up Mugger w/Gun
BINGO!! You just figured out that you and I know that ... BUT THE THIEF DOESN'T!! And finally this missionary set out to teach them a lesson that they needed.Ezra wrote: ↑March 17th, 2017, 8:48 amThanks for thinking I'm all knowing. Quite the compliment. But I'm not.
(Then why do you purport to know who needs what? You shouldn't say you know, then turn around and say you don't know. Only talk out of one side of your mouth, not two.)
blah blah blay, poetry, blah blah.
(Yes, if there's one thing I don't like, it's poetry)
There is a better way then all this fighting you know that as well as i do.
- David13
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Re: LDS Missionary Beats Up Mugger w/Gun
Ezra
YooHoo!
Ezra
Over here!!
You know that evil is when good men do nothing. Why do you keep insisting this missionary should have done ... nothing?
dc
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Re: LDS Missionary Beats Up Mugger w/Gun
Ohhh so your one of those type. Your my fav type of person. One who has pet peeves about spelling and grammar. Corrects people to make yourself feel Above them. :ymapplause:PressingForward wrote: ↑March 17th, 2017, 2:02 pmEzra wrote: ↑March 16th, 2017, 9:00 pmYou said western Idaho kids need gumpshun. I did. I'm asked about his kids since they are western Idaho kids. . Say what? Did you mean to say "I'm asking about his.." I sure hope you're not homeschooling your kids....PressingForward wrote: ↑March 16th, 2017, 8:31 pmAre Elder Nattress's kids special? Or do you just General Authority worship? Hint.....it's just a calling.
Somehow that means I worship the general attorneys?? . Say what? Are you making fun of the General Authories of the Church? Not cool at all
What do you worship me since your speaking about me??
"your" is possesive. Your House, your car, your lack of education.
Makes no sense does it??
No, you make no sense at all.
I'm currently wondering about your sanity. Are you ok.
Too funny, I'll pray for you brother, because it is clear as to whom is in need of help.
Don't tell me your public schooling your kids and ignore all that's been said about the dangers of it.
Last edited by Ezra on March 18th, 2017, 12:42 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: LDS Missionary Beats Up Mugger w/Gun
David13 wrote: ↑March 17th, 2017, 4:57 pm
Ezra
YooHoo!
Ezra
Over here!!
You know that evil is when good men do nothing. Why do you keep insisting this missionary should have done ... nothing?
dc
You must have missed my reply. I already explained this.
Doing nothing is following the same old wore out pattern of fighting and contention.
Not doing the normal human reaction is the doing something.
2 wrong will never make a right. Why do you keep insisting that fighting is good?
I will ask again. How does this fit in what the elder did?
D&c 121
40 Hence many are called, but few are chosen.
41 No power or influence can or ought to be maintained by virtue of the priesthood, only by persuasion, by long-suffering, by gentleness and meekness, and by love unfeigned;
42 By kindness, and pure knowledge, which shall greatly enlarge the soul without hypocrisy, and without guile—
43 Reproving betimes with sharpness, when moved upon by the Holy Ghost; and then showing forth afterwards an increase of love toward him whom thou hast reproved, lest he esteem thee to be his enemy;
How did that missionary do in using his priesthood in accordance with what it takes to be chosen?
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Re: LDS Missionary Beats Up Mugger w/Gun
D&c 98 explains very well what God justify in self defense and in war you know I quote it all the time.freedomforall wrote: ↑March 17th, 2017, 11:27 amI was merely wondering...when does God ever have to have the Holy Ghost move upon him?Ezra wrote: ↑March 17th, 2017, 9:00 am D&c 121. 40 Hence many are called, but few are chosen.
41 No power or influence can or ought to be maintained by virtue of the priesthood, only by persuasion, by long-suffering, by gentleness and meekness, and by love unfeigned;
42 By kindness, and pure knowledge, which shall greatly enlarge the soul without hypocrisy, and without guile—
43 Reproving betimes with sharpness, when moved upon by the Holy Ghost; and then showing forth afterwards an increase of love toward him whom thou hast reproved, lest he esteem thee to be his enemy;
Was this the case with what happened in that situation?
And ffa where is the part about anger in that scripture ??
I can see God reproving with sharpness. When moved by the Holy Spirit. But that is not anger: that's love. And that requires a plan thoughtfulness and selflessness in order to do correctly. Anger doesn't fit.
Was Ammon wrong for defending himself?
Alma 20
20 And he stretched forth his hand to slay Ammon. But Ammon withstood his blows, and also smote his arm that he could not use it.
21 Now when the king saw that Ammon could slay him, he began to plead with Ammon that he would spare his life.
22 But Ammon raised his sword, and said unto him: Behold, I will smite thee except thou wilt grant unto me that my brethren may be cast out of prison.
How did God become God? By listening to the Holy Spirit.