Are Cain and Lilith still alive?

[Fiannan]

Just wondering. I have heard people in Church speculate that Cain is maybe bigfoot or that he was cursed to live forever. I have heard the same speculation in regards to Lilith. Any thoughts?

[Rachael]

The Cain=sasquatch came into our Mormon modern times because SWK's book, " The Miracle of Forgiveness". I had the displeasure of reading it several times after I was ex'd for having a child out of wedlock.

The Gilgamesh epic also described a bigfoot character called Enkidu. I believe there are bigfoots because I know people who are witnesses and I don't see any reason that they would bear false witness about their encounters. There must be some paranormal aspect about them though, or someone would have killed one by now for science to examine and put in the Pokédex by now.

Lilith legends postulate that she was made out of the dust of the earth like Adam, not from his rib, so she wasn't willing to be submissive to him. I've read some legends that she pronounced the "ineffable name of God" and flew away. But she hated Adam's descendants and married the devil and gave birth to demons and she tries to harm/kill infants of the seed of Adam. That's where the "Lullabye" song came from that parents still sing to their babies. It means "Lillith Away".

[I'LLMAKEYAFAMOUS]

I've wondered if the Lilith story is real. I believe there's only one reference to her in the scriptures, and all other information is conjecture.

Though some say she's currently running for president.

[JohnnyL]

L is as alive now as when she first was thought up as the figment of someone's imagination...

[freedomforall]

Lilith is folklore, a fantasy, not real, a figment of imagination, a fake, a myth and of no significance.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lilith" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Cain is a Son of Perdition, consigned to outer darkness with Satan and his followers.

Doesn't leave much of a story does it?

[shadow]

Not sure about Cane, but Lilith is still around.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ZlyhoMzL1hw" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Rachael]

Hmm... I figured that she would be more of a seductive persona, like a Beyoncé or something rather than make her debut on "Cheers" by being a psychoanalysis to Frasier.

[Alaris]

The Cain=sasquatch came into our Mormon modern times because SWK's book, " The Miracle of Forgiveness". I had the displeasure of reading it several times after I was ex'd for having a child out of wedlock.

The Gilgamesh epic also described a bigfoot character called Enkidu. I believe there are bigfoots because I know people who are witnesses and I don't see any reason that they would bear false witness about their encounters. There must be some paranormal aspect about them though, or someone would have killed one by now for science to examine and put in the Pokédex by now.

Lilith legends postulate that she was made out of the dust of the earth like Adam, not from his rib, so she wasn't willing to be submissive to him. I've read some legends that she pronounced the "ineffable name of God" and flew away. But she hated Adam's descendants and married the devil and gave birth to demons and she tries to harm/kill infants of the seed of Adam. That's where the "Lullabye" song came from that parents still sing to their babies. It means "Lillith Away".

I've read the miracle of forgiveness as well. I think the Cain is Bigfoot would be a great thread as I have some theories there. The mark of Cain as it is described by the Lord would fit nicely into Bigfoot's lifestyle and legends. I've read enough Bigfoot books and online stories to see there is absolutely a supernatural element. A common element is people feeling a deep sense of dread before they see or smell Bigfoot. Big footers try to explain it away as some sort of pharamone designed to scare people away. I say it's the spirit warning that a son of perdition is near.

Another supernatural element is several stories about people and families who seem to be cursed from their interactions with bigfoot aka curse of Cain.

It's amusing how bigfooters try to shoehorn or ignore the supernatural elements to gain credibility.

Ufologists also try to shoehorn Bigfoot into their worldview.

I personally don't know much about lillith

[Durzan]

who the heck is this Lilleth everyone keeps talking about?

[Rachael]

She was supposedly the first wife of Adam.

http://m.datehookup.com/list.aspx?p=ART ... ctress.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

"It’s a pretty good bet, that many a parent has sung a lullaby to their children. The tradition of a lullaby was started because of one demon seductress, Lilith or Lilitu. She is thought to be a Mesopotamian demon with long hair and wings, which come to men in the middle of the night, to take their sexual energy, harm pregnant women, steal male babies, and drink their blood. This legend is where the first record of vampirism supposedly comes from. She is depicted as a half woman, half snake being, called a Lamia. The earliest inscription of Lilith is in the epic poem of Gilgamesh, around 2000 BCE. Some say she is the mother of all demons. Through history her role in various religions has changed.

In Jewish medieval lore Lilith was the first wife of Adam. Both she and Adam were made from the dust of the Earth so Lilith thought she was equal to Adam. Lilith refused to lie beneath Adam, and he refused to be on bottom, so Lilith calls upon Gods name, leaves the Garden of Eden, and flies across the Red Sea to consort with Samael, a well known Demon, and bears him children, known as Lilin.

Adam is left with no suitable helpmate, so he asks God to bring Lilith back to him. God sends three angels, Senoy, Sansenoy, and Semangelof, to bring her back. They are bid to kill a hundred of her children a day until she returns. Lilith refuses, and as God has already made Eve for Adam, she retaliates on the angels by saying she will torment the children of Adam and Eve for eternity, and only the names of the three angels being invoked will save them from her.

This story has merged with Jewish tradition and amulets bearing the three angels names are worn around a male baby’s neck until they are circumcised. Traditionally a male child’s hair is not cut until the age of three hoping to confuse Lilith into thinking the child is female. To guard against her, young men would hang a script on their walls or door saying” Adam and Eve may enter here, but enter not Lilith the Queen.” The Bible says she dwells with jackals and hyenas in the God-forbidden Edom. In the Jewish book of Zohar, it is said that because Lilith will steal a sexual release from men to have her children, that Adam practiced celibacy for a long while, keeping Eve from him.

There are many different roles that Lilith plays in history. Some think that because she was Adams first wife she remained free of Original Sin. She could have been the serpent that tempted Eve to eat of the fruit on the tree knowledge. She is thought to be the embodiment of the Goddess Innana who went to the underworld to see her sister. In order to reach Ereshkigal Inanna had to leave something behind to be allowed entrance through the seven gates of hell. When she reached the final gate she was left with nothing to protect herself with and was killed. However with the help of Enki was able to return to life so long as someone went to the underworld in her place. In the end it was Inanna's husband, Dumuzi and his sister who each spend half a year in the underworld so that Inanna could remain with the living.

In modern magic, Lilith’s name is invoked in a ritual called Lilith-Ritus credited to Soror Hachel. Lilith is the primal feminine aspect of dark sexuality, and what many consider “dark” magic. Noted satanist Aliester Crowley wrote a poem to her. He believed that Lilith created Adam from clay and taught mankind sexual magic, and could be summoned as both a lover and a teacher. He also claimed this was written in a rediscovered Gnostic grimoire found by German occultist Karl Steiger.

Today Lilith is seen as a symbol for feminine freedom. Feminists are inspired to think that Lilith left Adam because he tried to assert his dominance over her. She is seen as a powerful woman. Lilith Fair, the all female festival organized by singer/songwriter, Sarah McLachlan, which ran from 1997-1999, is named for Lilith of the Bible."

[larsenb]

She was supposedly the first wife of Adam.

http://m.datehookup.com/list.aspx?p=ART ... ctress.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

"It’s a pretty good bet, that many a parent has sung a lullaby to their children. The tradition of a lullaby was started because of one demon seductress, Lilith or Lilitu. She is thought to be a Mesopotamian demon with long hair and wings, which come to men in the middle of the night, to take their sexual energy, harm pregnant women, steal male babies, and drink their blood. This legend is where the first record of vampirism supposedly comes from. She is depicted as a half woman, half snake being, called a Lamia. The earliest inscription of Lilith is in the epic poem of Gilgamesh, around 2000 BCE. Some say she is the mother of all demons. Through history her role in various religions has changed.

In Jewish medieval lore Lilith was the first wife of Adam. Both she and Adam were made from the dust of the Earth so Lilith thought she was equal to Adam. Lilith refused to lie beneath Adam, and he refused to be on bottom, so Lilith calls upon Gods name, leaves the Garden of Eden, and flies across the Red Sea to consort with Samael, a well known Demon, and bears him children, known as Lilin.

Adam is left with no suitable helpmate, so he asks God to bring Lilith back to him. God sends three angels, Senoy, Sansenoy, and Semangelof, to bring her back. They are bid to kill a hundred of her children a day until she returns. Lilith refuses, and as God has already made Eve for Adam, she retaliates on the angels by saying she will torment the children of Adam and Eve for eternity, and only the names of the three angels being invoked will save them from her.

This story has merged with Jewish tradition and amulets bearing the three angels names are worn around a male baby’s neck until they are circumcised. Traditionally a male child’s hair is not cut until the age of three hoping to confuse Lilith into thinking the child is female. To guard against her, young men would hang a script on their walls or door saying” Adam and Eve may enter here, but enter not Lilith the Queen.” The Bible says she dwells with jackals and hyenas in the God-forbidden Edom. In the Jewish book of Zohar, it is said that because Lilith will steal a sexual release from men to have her children, that Adam practiced celibacy for a long while, keeping Eve from him.

There are many different roles that Lilith plays in history. Some think that because she was Adams first wife she remained free of Original Sin. She could have been the serpent that tempted Eve to eat of the fruit on the tree knowledge. She is thought to be the embodiment of the Goddess Innana who went to the underworld to see her sister. In order to reach Ereshkigal Inanna had to leave something behind to be allowed entrance through the seven gates of hell. When she reached the final gate she was left with nothing to protect herself with and was killed. However with the help of Enki was able to return to life so long as someone went to the underworld in her place. In the end it was Inanna's husband, Dumuzi and his sister who each spend half a year in the underworld so that Inanna could remain with the living.

In modern magic, Lilith’s name is invoked in a ritual called Lilith-Ritus credited to Soror Hachel. Lilith is the primal feminine aspect of dark sexuality, and what many consider “dark” magic. Noted satanist Aliester Crowley wrote a poem to her. He believed that Lilith created Adam from clay and taught mankind sexual magic, and could be summoned as both a lover and a teacher. He also claimed this was written in a rediscovered Gnostic grimoire found by German occultist Karl Steiger.

Today Lilith is seen as a symbol for feminine freedom. Feminists are inspired to think that Lilith left Adam because he tried to assert his dominance over her. She is seen as a powerful woman. Lilith Fair, the all female festival organized by singer/songwriter, Sarah McLachlan, which ran from 1997-1999, is named for Lilith of the Bible."

Interesting. A lot of arcane research went into this.

I've posted the following before regarding a BIg Foot encounter, but it may be of interest here.

I worked with a guy that had two friends who encountered a big foot on a hunting trip into southern Idaho. They were on horses. One horse ran off in terror with its rider. The other guy, as I recall, was thrown and tried to control the horse, barely able to do so. He got a good look at the Big Foot and came away with the idea he was seeing Cain.

He also said his horse was ruined after that encounter, and would do nothing but go in endless circles in the coral.

The point being, there was apparently an incredible element of terror in the encounter, experienced both by the two guys and their horses, with one of the horses being ruined by the experience.

We had even arranged to have the two fellows who had the encounter speak on their experience, but it fell through

[Rachael]

I believe there are probably are paranormal and evil aspects to Sasquatches/Yetis/Bigfoots/skunk apes. But there are too many encounters in too many different places to say that each one is the Cain of the Bible. I guess he obeyed at least one commandment to multiply and replenish himself.

[larsenb]

I believe there are probably are paranormal and evil aspects to Sasquatches/Yetis/Bigfoots/skunk apes. But there are too many encounters in too many different places to say that each one is the Cain of the Bible. I guess he obeyed at least one commandment to multiply and replenish himself.

That's the way I look at it.

The fellow may have picked up on the story of one of the earlier Brethren encountering Cain while he was on a horseback trip. Don't remember his name. A widely known story, though.

[Teancum]

It occurred to me after reading this thread and remembering my contributions to the other bigfoot - cain thread, that cain complained to the Lord that he would be killed. And the Lord basically says that whoever kills cain will get tons more curse than what cain received. I just had the thought that it wasnt just because he was a murderer that he would be in danger of being killed, but because of the oath's sake with the secret combination. kind of like what lamech boasted about killing someone because of betrayal of the oath and the secret. So part of why cain is a vagabond and a fugitive could be that he is being actively hunted by those in the secret combination, and they view it as a top trophy.

Anyway, I know this post doesn't make any sense, but those are some thoughts I thought were related.

[Rachael]

It occurred to me after reading this thread and remembering my contributions to the other bigfoot - cain thread, that cain complained to the Lord that he would be killed. And the Lord basically says that whoever kills cain will get tons more curse than what cain received. I just had the thought that it wasnt just because he was a murderer that he would be in danger of being killed, but because of the oath's sake with the secret combination. kind of like what lamech boasted about killing someone because of betrayal of the oath and the secret. So part of why cain is a vagabond and a fugitive could be that he is being actively hunted by those in the secret combination, and they view it as a top trophy.

Anyway, I know this post doesn't make any sense, but those are some thoughts I thought were related.

In some Apocryphal accounts, Cain was accidentally killed by Lamech. His son was helping him hunt because Lamechs eyes were dim. The son helped him aim at what they thought was an animal. Turns out it was Cain who died from the arrow. Lamech becomes upset when he learn this and kills his son accidentally by some wild gesticulations. This is not the same Lamech that was the son of Methuselah and grandfather of Noah.

[inho]

who the heck is this Lilleth everyone keeps talking about?

Character in folklore. She is mentioned once in the Journal of Discourses (although the context is plural marriage, and the speaker tries to say that plural marriage goes as far back in time as Adam), but other than that she doesn't really appear in LDS discourse.

[inho]

Let's take a look at what scriptures tell us about Cain:

Genesis 4:

11 And now art thou cursed from the earth, which hath opened her mouth to receive thy brother’s blood from thy hand;

12 When thou tillest the ground, it shall not henceforth yield unto thee her strength; a fugitive and a vagabond shalt thou be in the earth.

13 And Cain said unto the Lord, My punishment is greater than I can bear.

14 Behold, thou hast driven me out this day from the face of the earth; and from thy face shall I be hid; and I shall be a fugitive and a vagabond in the earth; and it shall come to pass, that every one that findeth me shall slay me.

15 And the Lord said unto him, Therefore whosoever slayeth Cain, vengeance shall be taken on him sevenfold. And the Lord set a mark upon Cain, lest any finding him should kill him.

Moses 5:

40 And I the Lord said unto him: Whosoever slayeth thee, vengeance shall be taken on him sevenfold. And I the Lord set a mark upon Cain, lest any finding him should kill him.

Lord acknowledges the possibility that someone might kill Cain. So Cain was mortal at least in the sense that he might be killed. Nowhere does it say that Cain would live forever as a wandering Bigfoot.

In my opinion, it is just a folklore that Cain is still wandering around the Earth. Later this folklore has tied into the bigfoot folklore. If you are interested in this folklore, read Bowmans article A Mormon Bigfoot: David Patten’s Cain and the Concept of Evil in LDS Folklore in Journal of Mormon History or listen to his presentation in Sunstone.

[Ribble]

I believe that Cain wasn't the only one cursed. He was involved in a conspiracy to kill his brother. It was the first secret combination. So, perhaps the whole cabal was cursed to walk the earth. Thus we see Bigfoot sightings around the world.

[Sirocco]

So I was hunting Cain? Hmmm

[Fiannan]

I believe that Cain wasn't the only one cursed. He was involved in a conspiracy to kill his brother. It was the first secret combination. So, perhaps the whole cabal was cursed to walk the earth. Thus we see Bigfoot sightings around the world.

Glad we have finally established that Noah's Flood did not cover the entire earth then.

[EdGoble]

Interesting. A lot of arcane research went into this.

I've posted the following before regarding a BIg Foot encounter, but it may be of interest here.

I worked with a guy that had two friends who encountered a big foot on a hunting trip into southern Idaho. They were on horses. One horse ran off in terror with its rider. The other guy, as I recall, was thrown and tried to control the horse, barely able to do so. He got a good look at the Big Foot and came away with the idea he was seeing Cain.

He also said his horse was ruined after that encounter, and would do nothing but go in endless circles in the coral.

The point being, there was apparently an incredible element of terror in the encounter, experienced both by the two guys and their horses, with one of the horses being ruined by the experience.

We had even arranged to have the two fellows who had the encounter speak on their experience, but it fell through

I believe that Cain has appeared to many people in this manner. But I will never believe that he is a quasi-translated being. I don't believe that Satan has power over bodies in this way.

[mmm..cheese]

L is as alive now as when she first was thought up as the figment of someone's imagination...

[shadow]

I've posted the following before regarding a BIg Foot encounter, but it may be of interest here.

I worked with a guy that had two friends who encountered a big foot on a hunting trip into southern Idaho. They were on horses. One horse ran off in terror with its rider. The other guy, as I recall, was thrown and tried to control the horse, barely able to do so. He got a good look at the Big Foot and came away with the idea he was seeing Cain.

He also said his horse was ruined after that encounter, and would do nothing but go in endless circles in the coral.

The point being, there was apparently an incredible element of terror in the encounter, experienced both by the two guys and their horses, with one of the horses being ruined by the experience.

We had even arranged to have the two fellows who had the encounter speak on their experience, but it fell through

Ezra posted a story here a while ago about Bigfoot throwing big rocks at him in Oregon.

[JohnnyL]

I believe in Cain and Bigfoot, but I don't believe Cain and Bigfeet are related.
Bigfeet are possibly related to giants.

[JohnnyL]

Interesting. A lot of arcane research went into this.

I've posted the following before regarding a BIg Foot encounter, but it may be of interest here.

I worked with a guy that had two friends who encountered a big foot on a hunting trip into southern Idaho. They were on horses. One horse ran off in terror with its rider. The other guy, as I recall, was thrown and tried to control the horse, barely able to do so. He got a good look at the Big Foot and came away with the idea he was seeing Cain.

He also said his horse was ruined after that encounter, and would do nothing but go in endless circles in the coral.

The point being, there was apparently an incredible element of terror in the encounter, experienced both by the two guys and their horses, with one of the horses being ruined by the experience.

We had even arranged to have the two fellows who had the encounter speak on their experience, but it fell through

I believe that Cain has appeared to many people in this manner. But I will never believe that he is a quasi-translated being. I don't believe that Satan has power over bodies in this way.

If it was done, maybe it was Satan, maybe it was God.